Open 722: Red Flag [Endgame]

[northsidegal]

Votecount 1.6

Creature (1):

TheBrie 19

ActionDan (1):

pisskop 24

TheBrie (2):

ActionDan 97, Killthestory 111

Killthestory (4):

Hiraki 103, Fumuki 272, callforjudgement 278, Creature 328

Fumuki (1):

BlueBloodedToffee 147

pisskop (2):

ceejayvinoya 213, teacher 324

Not voting (2):

wgeurts, northsidestory 89

With 13 alive, it’s 7 to lynch. The Day One deadline is in (expired on 2018-04-29 20:23:59).

[Fumuki]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

You're either Nutso or Gutso.

Then you disagree with the wagon in KTS...? Why CJ-san...?

(By the way, if you're still around next year, I'm nominating you for kodak moment for this):

Spoiler:

ceejay: solid content but awkward tone

and lack of joking

which os indicative of him being villa means he might be a deepwolf even if he isnt utr'd.

@Fumuki, in my iso i linked a recent scum game on mu. i have a lot of towngames on there, too, if u wanna view those.

Do I look like a comedian to you?

I honestly laughed...

[Creature]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

You're either Nutso or Gutso.

or Handso.

[ceejayvinoya]

My crazy desire was that we should try a wagon on KTS.

You're either Nutso or Gutso.

Then you disagree with the wagon in KTS...? Why CJ-san...?

(By the way, if you're still around next year, I'm nominating you for kodak moment for this):

Spoiler:

ceejay: solid content but awkward tone

and lack of joking

which os indicative of him being villa means he might be a deepwolf even if he isnt utr'd.

@Fumuki, in my iso i linked a recent scum game on mu. i have a lot of towngames on there, too, if u wanna view those.

Do I look like a comedian to you?

I honestly laughed...

I'm not disagreeing with it yet, but it seems to me that there's not enough uh evidence of KTS being scummy to justify a wagon.

[ceejayvinoya]

@Fumuki - you think KTS locking TheBrie as scum is scummy? How so?

[Fumuki]

@Fumuki - you think KTS locking TheBrie as scum is scummy? How so?

At the moment he didn't give us yet a detailed explanation of his solid scum read in TheBrie, and it's my second time asking him...

Then let's suppose for a moment that he hasn't motives to solid scum read TheBrie as scum. If he was town, why would he be tunneling someone that he hasn't even much evidence against since the begin of the game and never changing his view?

And that's only one of the things I pointed out about him.

You said there's not enough evidence yet...but more of what kind of evidence would you like me to give you about him...?

[callforjudgement]

UNVOTE: Killthestory

I'm having a hard time reading KTS's reactions to the votes on him as scum unless Fumuki is scum too. It's rare for scum to have the perfect opportunity to make a reasonable-looking vote on someone that they earlier called town, and then back away from it more or less instantly upon the explanation (unless the person in question is actually a scumubddy). KTS+Fumuki as scum, while possible, seems sufficiently unlikely that I'd rather use my vote elsewhere.

VOTE: Creature

It says something that Creature has been posting consistently and yet I had him mentally pegged as a lurker. Not voting due to having two suspects (#321) is a fairly convenient way to stay under the radar (I'm not sure if it's intentional, but it worked), and most of Creature's posts have been on side conversations rather than actually driving the game. I haven't seen anything that really advances the game, as opposed to looking busy. I'm aware that Creature's playstyle involves posting a lot of filler, but it's the absence of non-filler that concerns me more than the filler itself.

This isn't a very strong scumread, but it's one that I feel warrants more investigation.

@

Creature

: Who is your second scumread (after KTS)? TheBrie? You've been sufficiently devoid of useful information this game that I can't even tell for sure who it is based on the contents of your posts. I'd be interested in seeing your arguments for the second scumread (whoever it is), because this game could do with direction from a wider variety of players than it has at the moment.

[Creature]

Wasn't I post non-filler for a while?

[Creature]

If I go crazy, I might want to also add pisskop, ActionDan and ceevaidk to my townlist.

BBT is town because of meta

Hiraki might also be town

ceejay
Killthestory
TheBrie
CFJ
teacher
wgeurts
northsidestory

(damn, I thought PoE was smaller)

(though my BBT read was sort a joke)

[Creature]

TheBrie is like my first scumread
KTS is my second
teacher can be my third

[callforjudgement]

I consider at least #133 as filler because it contains unexplained reads, some of which are on lurkers. Lurkers are, in general, particularly hard to read, and so a read on them needs to be backed up by more evidence/explanation than normal. Otherwise, a) it's not going to convince anyone (thus there's no real jeopardy accompanying the read), and b) if you subsequently change your mind and/or don't change the mind, there's not really much that other people can deduce from the read progression. For example, if pisskop made a substantial reads post with explanation right now, it'd probably be more useful for reading them than the rest of their ISO put together, and thus the read in #133 would be more or less irrelevant and easy to back down from / confirm.

What is #152, by the way? A list of non-townreads? Six firm townreads in a setup with only nine townies is pretty impressive/unlikely as it is.

[Fumuki]

UNVOTE: Killthestory

I'm having a hard time reading KTS's reactions to the votes on him as scum

unless Fumuki is scum too. I

t's rare for scum to have the perfect opportunity to make a reasonable-looking vote on someone that they earlier called town

, and then back away from it more or less instantly upon the explanation (unless the person in question is actually a scumubddy). KTS+Fumuki as scum, while possible, seems sufficiently unlikely that I'd rather use my vote elsewhere

.

I don't think you should read KTS based on his reactions to the vote. What in your opinion would he be doing now? Screaming/insulting with me will get nowhere, and not only KTS knows how to alternate play styles, he too is a clever individual and noticed it, be him town or scum, we both agreed that calming down and talking things over is the best course of action.

Now about the vote in someone that they earlier called town....uh...KTS didn't vote on me. He only called me in the spur of moment a "wolf". You can draw some conclusions from that if you want, but not only it would be for worse as well I don't see much relevance. KTS was back there in a aggressive persona, it's justifiable.

I see you're going for Creature now...and it's fine...

But I don't think that the picture of KTS is changing significantly (even though I want to believe in him) until he answer my latest question about his reads.

[ceejayvinoya]

@Fumuki - you think KTS locking TheBrie as scum is scummy? How so?

At the moment he didn't give us yet a detailed explanation of his solid scum read in TheBrie, and it's my second time asking him...

Then let's suppose for a moment that he hasn't motives to solid scum read TheBrie as scum. If he was town, why would he be tunneling someone that he hasn't even much evidence against since the begin of the game and never changing his view?

And that's only one of the things I pointed out about him.

You said there's not enough evidence yet...but more of what kind of evidence would you like me to give you about him...?

I see your point. VOTE: KTS

[TheBrie]

Loooking over recent thihgs.
Despite being annoying and a little erratic, KTS doesn't really strike me as scummy. I'd feel more confident with that

if He hadn't chopped and changed some of his reads a bit

. Someone (prob CFJ) made the point that his strong opinions didn't leave the wriggle room that Scum prefer, but that's not so much the case now.

Still his posts do further activity (for those who follow them) and he does make sense.

What exactly "makes sense" if until now he wasn't explaining any of his read Brie-san...?

That was really badly worded on my part. I meant he makes sense as a player. He seems consistent in method. His existence seems valid. Which sounds weird. I don't know what I really meant.

[TheBrie]

teacher and thebrie seem to be related and most likely scum aligned

Why? We've not exactly been interacting.
Is it because I've got a town lean on him and he's null on me?

[TheBrie]

TheBrie is like my first scumread
KTS is my second
teacher can be my third

Creature, this is a slightly helpful post.
The ones with names, but no mention of what faction you were lumping them with were not at all useful.
If you actually gave reasons for your reads, thay would be very useful? And might get things done.

So why am I scum? Try to convince someone.

And why do you think TKS is also scum given his semi determination to lynch me?

[Fumuki]

Loooking over recent thihgs.
Despite being annoying and a little erratic, KTS doesn't really strike me as scummy. I'd feel more confident with that

if He hadn't chopped and changed some of his reads a bit

. Someone (prob CFJ) made the point that his strong opinions didn't leave the wriggle room that Scum prefer, but that's not so much the case now.

Still his posts do further activity (for those who follow them) and he does make sense.

What exactly "makes sense" if until now he wasn't explaining any of his read Brie-san...?

That was really badly worded on my part. I meant

he makes sense as a player. He seems consistent in method. His existence seems valid

. Which sounds weird. I don't know what I really meant.

TheBrie, allow me to be a little blunt here.
What makes sense, if he didn't explained his reads until now? What's consistent, if his reads was fluctuating and he has been tunneling you without go in details? And what can possible mean in a mafia game to someone existence seems "valid"...?

What I mean here TheBrie, is why, of all players, you're not even suspect of KTS...?

[Killthestory]

it's a tmi read on me. thebrie makes more sense than the average town player because he knows i'm town, and therefore he assumes being right and logical is how he's going to avoid being lynched today. he doesn't just naturally come to the conclusion i'm town through such little reasoning whereas all my hard townreads are having trouble reading me.

[Killthestory]

this feels almost exactly like my last nsg game where i nailed 2 scum, and then got lynched early on because people can't discern playstyle and what's actually scummy on this forum. i never have this problem on any of the other sites i've ever played on ever LOL.

[Fumuki]

it's a tmi read on me. thebrie makes more sense than the average town player because he knows i'm town, and therefore he assumes being right and logical is how he's going to avoid being lynched today. he doesn't just naturally come to the conclusion i'm town through such little reasoning whereas all my hard townreads are having trouble reading me.

Exactly KTS-san...

TheBrie, not only that, but can you begin sorting some slots already? You've been saying that you get a impression from that player, a impression from that other one and such, but you actually isn't sorting anyone. You're not serious voting anyone. And now you actually are asking "convince me I'm scum" to Creature.

If you wanted explanations to people thinking you're scum, why you didn't say anything about KTS since the begin?

this feels almost exactly like my last nsg game where i nailed 2 scum, and then got lynched early on because people can't discern playstyle and what's actually scummy on this forum. i never have this problem on any of the other sites i've ever played on ever LOL.

Hmm...

KTS...I'm still waiting for an answer to my previous question to you...and it has been some time now...

[Killthestory]

please quote it i'm on 5 hours of sleep and just walked 10 miles or so

[Fumuki]

please quote it i'm on 5 hours of sleep and just walked 10 miles or so

Here...

KTS, in regards to your recent list, these reads specifically are what I would like to discuss ...:

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.

Now about TheBrie, the entrance you're talking about is supposedly these two:

Spoiler:

Confirming that I was not awake in the middle of the night.

In a side note kinda unrelated to the game...you walked 10 miles and only slept for 5 hours...? If it's not something too personal, could you explain what you've been doing...? (I got curios now...)

[Fumuki]

Ignore my previous post...Here is the question...:

About your readlist, this part is what I want to discuss for now:

teacher: weak reads, scummy tone, more focused on looking town than actually solving.
thebrie: incredibly awkward entrance with an oblivious look later on that gives him a rather fake vibe. wagon composition solid with 0 reason to move off him.

Now about TheBrie, the entrance you're talking about is supposedly these two:

Spoiler:

Confirming that I was not awake in the middle of the night.

VOTE: Creature
Because Creature is always scum (sometimes) and also confirmed late.

My personal meta is probably irrelevant seeing as I haven't played since the middle of last year. I'll try to stay in.

and...

Spoiler:

Haven't found someone worth voting

What makes a person worth voting then?

Why is it "incredibly awkward" in your opinion?

And about the "oblivious look later", what exactly does it mean?

Do you think that it was enough to lock her slot as scum so early...?

[northsidegal]

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[northsidegal]

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