Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[Ouroboros]

Specifically, what's your read on Dunnstral?

Ghost

[Ramcius]

i'll do better, i'll give you my rough idea on who's scum:

Tchill/Wilky (one of them very likely is scum)
Ank (i really disliked reactions and that shade throw without giving any names looked really bad)
last one probably in lurkers: Maria/Dunn/Wraith/hebi/Kokichi (dave and alchemist i trust you guys for now on meta reads, Nero's aggressiveness felt more like town, as scum his more troll)

[Ouroboros]

@Ramcius

What do you think of Impossibear's theory of scum!hider TChill as a way to counter their role as Vigilante? Do you think it holds weight?

Ghost

[Dunnstral]

I don't think Tchill is scum. Since people are spewing NRG secrets anyway, there was a long debate over what a hider actually is and we came to the conclusion that the hider itself is hiding behind and dying if target dies. Weak is separate. This discussion that we were having in the NRG ended up leaking to FG's D&D discord where GIF is a member and he even threw some comments in shortly before this game went to queue. Him being town with that hider role actually makes a ton of sense as a result and that's the main reason that I've been averse to his lynch for most of the game.

I also think that the specific manner of the claim is tonally highly indicative of town even if I'm not willing to call him confirmed town.

FYI I don't know what you're talking about here/never heard of this

[Dunnstral]

Specifically, what's your read on Dunnstral?

Ghost

There's no pressure from you because rc won't let you off the chain to vote whoever you want. Bite me - oh wait, you can't

[Ramcius]

@Ramcius

What do you think of Impossibear's theory of scum!hider TChill as a way to counter their role as Vigilante? Do you think it holds weight?

Ghost

you mean as a worse commuter? He might be scum commuter too, or just faking to not get targeted, who would want waste their night action on hider

Also, how does it align with Impo saying their role incline scum to have protective role?

[Dunnstral]

You're a fucking bully and I don't want to FUCKING TALK TO YOU. LEAVE ME ALONE.

How about, let's claim IC before there's any reason to!!!!!!!!!!!

YEAH! THAT'S A GREAT IDEA!! WOO!

Look, I can grab stuff out of context too.

HAHAHAHAHA

I get that you're not interested in this game - what if I told you I thought you were town? Do you have any reads?

[Ouroboros]

It happened over voice while GIF was playing music, not over text

[projectmatt]

hi, i'll read this game soon.

is there anything important i should know about beforehand?

[Ouroboros]

@Dunn - Still don't have an answer for this.

ISO edit:

Spoiler: fucking hell. i should not be playing if I'm not paying attention

think that ramcius is probably town for meta reasons. what's your wilky read?

I didn't think he was scum but he's kind of scummy in his responses to you/not really making a case for himself here

^

This makes no sense.

Ghost

Go on

It's hedging on his - Wilky's - alignment.

Ghost

I don't know where my head's at these days...

@Ram - I agree with Impossibear's Occam Razor argument on scum!TChill and in light of how TChill has jumped onto the Wilky wagon, I think that TChill is more likely to be scum than Wilky. I brought up Bear's argument because that's been the person I've been associating with the TChill push and I wanted to see where you stand in that, since TChill is someone you consider to be scum amongst the lurkers.

Adding onto the fact that TChill's been on the Wilky wagon since Page 8 - besides that jump onto the Vent wagon yesterday - I think that that crosses off the chances that TChill voting is scum bus.

Ghost

[Dunnstral]

While you're at it, can you update me on your perception/read of Ank and the Hebi slot?

Your last mention of either of them - albeit I did skim your ISO - was in 445 and was related to how they sheeped onto the Vent wagon and how you felt that that was suspicious.

Ghost

I don't have an opinion on Hebi, I don't remember anything they've posted. Ank is leaning town for me

[Wraith]

Just a heads-up why I've disappeared and probably will be low-activity until Monday, this week has been pretty hellish and I'm chronically exhausted right now

[Alchemist21]

FOS: Tchill

Pseudo-voting here until Impossibear's quest is satisfied, then I'll make it official.

[GuyInFreezer]

2.02

wilky (3):

MariaR, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, Tchill13

Dunnstral (1):

Ankamius

Impossibear (1):

hebichan

Ramcius (4):

wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear, Dunnstral

Tchill13 (1):

Wraith

Not Voting:

Kokichi Oma, projectmatt, Alchemist21, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz, Ouroboros

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

[Impossibear]

How do the Miller claims line up with Kaede's and RMOJ's roles here based on this mod philosophy? 2 millers which could be cleared on mod Meta (and at least one on flavor) plus an IC plus a role that makes a second IC (and confirms itself with it) seems like a lot in my opinion for an 18-p game.

Spoiler: Philosophy, as it pertains to balance in this game:

Roles that are confirmed to exist:

IC- Unlynchable
Jungle's Conditional Hidden JOAT- Unlynchable and has to claim to have any use.
Scum Loyal Roleswapper- Useable to put the strongest scumrole in the strongest scum's hands.

Roles Claimed to Exist:

Miller x2- Negative utility
Non Weak Hider
BP Gated Vig- Unlynchable and Unkillable.

Roles That Exist By Thread/Role Information:

Town Protective- Missing kill N1 while I was an objectively terrible shot and Tchill was a never in 1000 years shot means that Kaede was likely nightkilled and protected. Not unlynchable at all given my Role PM.
2-3 Other Scum Power Roles- There is no utility to the Roleswapper unless scum has useful PR's. Probably one for each member of the scumteam. My guess is an investigative to help find the vig/IC (rolecop?) and something to fuck with Jungle and us (1-shot strongman (full strongman doesn't make sense)/Rolestopper/Roleblocker, etc.).

From this point of view, town is actually underpowered. I'd expect one or two weak Power roles, something along the lines of a tracker (Not likely to give innos or guilties, but not something scum can straight up ignore either) OR the rest of Jungle's JOAT abilities to be remarkably powerful. Flavorwise, it's probably the former, as Garvey's quests are apparently a meme about how annoying and useless they are.

The possible guilties/innos match up (1 guilty 3 unlynchables or 4 unlynchables against a 4 person scumteam is more than fair to scum). If the town decides to treat the millers as additional IC's that's on them and isn't worth balancing around.

On the flavor side of things, our flavor is pretty obviously a powerrole. I'd bet any other flavors that are 'clearing' would be obvious too, therefore a flavor massclaim wouldn't actually be that helpful. I disagree with ETL that wilky's flavor makes him autotown, hence his position in the lynchable pool of my reads. I just specifically don't want to lynch him today.

Hey, projectmatt, vote Ramcius. It's not about lynching him or his alignment, but is crazy protown.

Also, Jungle, Kokichi and Maria need to do the same.

[Impossibear]

Everyone else needs to not vote Ramcius, btw.

[Impossibear]

i was thinking, i really don't like this "Ram is expendable" attitude,

I'm really very sorry, but you are. If it helps sooth your ego, I'd be arguing we should use me if I wasn't a PR.

If scum decides to lynch you to prevent the cop on me, the positive equity is fucking insane for town. You haven't obvtowned by any means and you're not on anyone's I've got a hard-on for this lynch list (unlike Wilky), so there's no one who could conceivably weasel out of the quickhammer.

[Impossibear]

~Jingle

[wilky]

No like I'm actually not literally 100% certain Wilky is scum. I've repeatedly asked for you to engage with me on it where I didn't for Vent because I can be persuaded here.
I made my points, asked for thoughts on it, you just got mad at me for leading the playerlist when today I've been doing so solely through strength of reasoning rather than character.

I think Wilky scum makes a shitton of sense in the gamestate particularly given Ventriloquist's approach to the slot, but like I'm open to persuading
You've made no effort to actually push Wilky scum besides to say that they're locktown because of flavor, which is... bad reasoning

And wilky, your defense keeps coming down to whether or not scum have fakeclaims and arguments that don't address the case at all so, meh.

Thats because there is no case to address I mean half of it is the claim and the other half is how vent acted on my slot.

There's also the fact that you used MWNN/Ventriloquist associatives to push on MWNN while saying that Vent could be scum if MWNN was scum but refusing to go the other direction until it became basically guaranteed to happen and never actually comment on Ventriloquist much at all.

My switch to vent had nothing to do with it becoming guaranteed to happen and I was totally convinced with the time stamps on the posts.

I didn't think he was scum but he's kind of scummy in his responses to you/not really making a case for himself here

This is fence sitty af.

FOS- Dunnstral

[Impossibear]

[quote="In post 1233, Impossibear"]

Pseudo Vote Count

wilky (3):

MariaR, Ouroboros, Tchill13,

Dunnstral (2):

Ankamius,

Kokichi Oma (2):

Dunnstral

Ankamius (2):

Ramcius,

Impossibear (1):

hebichan

Ramcius (1):

wilky

Tchill (4):

wraith, Impossibear, REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, Alchemist21

Not Voting:

Kokichi Oma, Nero Cain, Kaede Akamatsu, davesaz,

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

Spoiler: Ramcius wagon (Actual Votes For Quest)

Wilky, Ramcius, Impossibear, Dunstrall

Still needs Jungle, MariaR, ProjectMatt, Kokichi Oma

Everyone else, for the love of god use pseudovotes for now.

[Impossibear]

hi, i'll read this game soon.

is there anything important i should know about beforehand?

Claims:

IC - Kaede
BP Gated Vig- Impossibear
Conditional JOAT with a pending public Daycop on Impossibear- Realmen Only Jungle
Miller- davesaz AND wilky
Non-Weak Hider- Tchill13

The pending daycop requires that I both be the hammer vote today and vote number 3 on a wagon that is reflected as L-1 in a votecount. We're trying to coordinate the latter at the moment and using FOS in lieu of actually voting until that is over with to prevent scumfuckery.

RC (Ouroborous) pushed the Vent wagon through on very little information and then what amounted to a scumflip. There is some disagreement as to whether scum RC would do this, but either way he's town-for-now.

[Impossibear]

I'm not updating 1469 just for Wilky's FoS. I'll catch it tomorrow, though.

[Ouroboros]

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

My bad.

I'd pseudo-vote Hebi and TChill

.

Our hydra vote is probably going to end up on the Wilky wagon since I trust RC's judgement more than mine. FWIW it's probably for the best, I'm not giving this 100% of my attention as I should be doing.

Ghost

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Notable additions: Kaede and Ouroborognynonymous have also expressed interest in a Tchill wagon, but did not vote or pseudovote.

hey i just wanted to be lazy in the meantime but fineeeee

Pseudovote: tchill and wilky

[Wraith]

i was thinking, i really don't like this "Ram is expendable" attitude,

I'm really very sorry, but you are. If it helps sooth your ego, I'd be arguing we should use me if I wasn't a PR.

If scum decides to lynch you to prevent the cop on me, the positive equity is fucking insane for town. You haven't obvtowned by any means and you're not on anyone's I've got a hard-on for this lynch list (unlike Wilky), so there's no one who could conceivably weasel out of the quickhammer.

Oh come on, I'm more fucking expendable than Ram. Pretty sure literally no one in this game townreads me.