Fallout Mafia - Commonwealth Edition (Day 8)

[MariaR]

his reads are bad dw ank we're close to winning this

[Kokichi Oma]

Can you show me another towngame where you've done so?

[Ankamius]

Are you referring to my tone or what

[Ankamius]

Because if it's tone, then that game doesn't exist since the vast majority of my games are when I wasn't on medications.

[Ankamius]

Ok then

good night everyone

[Ramcius]

RC, at this point i just can't take your scumread on me serious it's like 3rd time you want me lynched

[Ouroboros]

Alright all systems are go for case production

[Ouroboros]

Anony has already made a case but I don't remember what of it she has already published outside of our private spaces so I'll leave it to her to share anything she wants to.

[Kaede Akamatsu]

Waiting Intensifies

[GuyInFreezer]

2.09

wilky (1):

Tchill13

Ramcius (2):

wilky, Ankamius

Tchill13 (3):

REALMEN ONLY JUNGLE, davesaz, MariaR

davesaz (3):

OnTheMark, Kokichi Oma, Wraith

Dunnstral (2):

projectmatt, Alchemist21

OnTheMark (1):

Ouroboros

Wraith (1):

Ramcius

projectmatt (1):

Dunnstral

Not Voting:

Impossibear, Kaede Akamatsu

With

16

alive,

9

to lynch

Deadline: (expired on 2018-05-27 22:26:54)

[GuyInFreezer]

punreader replaces Tchill13.

[Ouroboros]

Spoiler: Nero PBPA

I'm not getting the Wilky hate. Like at all. Why in the world would scum fakeclaim miller to 1v1 a useless powerrole. Everyone on that wagon gets -10 town cred.

What does seem possible to me is that Dave fakeclaims miller and then CC'd.

vote:Dave

This position that he's taking feels too strong: it feels like a TMI townread. It was already known that the miller claim wasn't a 1v1 and he chooses to ignore that in favor of taking a very confrontational stance. Not a fan.
Not actually literally something that never comes from Nero town, but the position does feel kind of forced.

VOTE: Nero Cain

This seems good

Because focusing on negative utility roles is a distraction and is the kind of thing I'd expect scum to be doing if both millers were town

VOTE: Nero

this is scum sheeping dumb town.

vote:Maria

Again: why? Rather strong position to take, feels TMI. This one is more strongly TMI since I think that dunnstral was not towny at all at that point in the game.

no no no. Hiders are

OBJECTIVELY

weak. We don't call them weak hiders b/c that's redundant. You're basically claiming that you don't know how a hider works which I think is bullshit. You are

ALSO

twisting and/or putting words into my mouth

Again this entirely sequence feels like he's playing dumb. It's not difficult to understand what we're talking about with regards to the hider not being weak but he chooses to go off on Maria for 'not knowing what a hider is?'
This is similar to the first situation with the miller where it obviously wasn't actually a 1-1 CC and this had been discussed but he chooses to ignore that in favor of confrontationally taking a stance that dummies out a lot of the situation.
I went through a strong period of thinking that this was SvS and if I die tonight you should probably lynch Maria before endgame, but this does say more about Nero than it does about Maria, so.

Also just because you point to wiki and find a role weak doesn't mean it can't be in the game

I don't get what this is, like at all. If you are saying that I'm saying that TChill has to be lying b/c the role is not as the wiki lists it then its putting words into my mouth.

that's not the issue at hand here. The issue is you're saying 3 roles 1 has to be a fake claim in them via scum and that's the agenda you're pushing that I have a problem with it's not me saying you don't think hiders are weak I don't really care about that. I just don't get why you closed off the thought of "oh maybe they could all be town"

That really wasn't your original argument though. Like Tchill claimed that he was a hider but GIF had taken away the weak modifier. You then claimed that I think "

without thinking if that's the case town has to have some great stuff or scum are underpowered etc etc.

Its putting words into my mouth.

I guess the real question is why can't I, as town, think there's a fake claimer in 3 neg utility roles? I guess the other question is why do you think all 3 are town and they aren't fakeclaiming.

Do you sr people in the group besides the claims? I see you tr wilk because you don't see scum him ccing but what do you feel about dave and tchi play wise?

I DO! I think you are scum and the RC hydra is scummy and Khade. Dave and tchill are null, it's pure WIFOM paranoid.

again: totally misses the point of the discussion.

thought I do like this I just didn't like how RC seemingly was talking out of both sides of his mouth about Wilky.

And your going from "I think Wilky is scum" to "guys lets all believe the the 3 neg utility roles" makes your Wilky vote seem pretty bandwagony.

Read on me is weirdly waffly: calls it good then says that I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth. Also the inclusion of 'seemingly' is scummy, was I or wasn't I talking out of both sides of my mouth about Wilky?

RC, if your town and your whole thing is "I'm going to get Nero lynched as punishment!" then that's p immature bro.

Though the thing about the Wilky was meant to be about MARIA'S vote. I reread it and see how it was confusing so my bad on that.

Again this is... weird. The reaction to me getting nero lynched as punishment is pretty underplayed, just calls it immature, but he still felt like including that when there was a clear reason I was scumreading him that he corrected?

ewww @ the Nero is lurking argument. Though I can't tell if its normal Ram idiotcy or opportunistic scum hopping on a growing bandwagon.

This is a super scummy post on it's own right, and its super indicative that Ram is scum as well.


Also not going to include all the quotes about Maria but his weird insistency that Maria is scum to the point of tying a bunch of people to her feels scummy regardless of darling Claire's alignment.

your top scum read is town as fuck Wilky while you also blasted me for thinking that there's scum in the fake claimers? This is hypocritical as fuck.

Again: Wilky feels TMI, the other bit is just awful.

I doubt i can get anything more from you, if no one else is joining me, but i'll keep eye on you

mayhaps no one joined us b/c the grand total of ur case is "Nero is lurking" which isn't true anyways.

Feels SvS once again. Super shallow engagement that doesn't actually make an effort to sort each other, just to have an interaction and stop talking to each other.

I don't really buy into this "I'm playing my d1 sheep game." I don't feel like a meta dive but this is probs null as they do it as both alignments. Still, the scum motivation in sheeping is there.

Again: really waffly. Nero is not a waffly person.

So TL;DRs of Nero.

1) His reads on several people, including Dunnstral, Maria, and the millers, feel TMI.
2) He shallowly engages with several major topics of the day to the point of failing to engage with the actual questions and taking a strong stance not based in the reasoning. I don't think Nero's that dumb.
3) His intercourse with Ramcius feels incredibly SvS. Maria I'm also concerned about but I would actually put her as more likely to be town post Nero-townflip than Maria.

I am not going to do a PBPA of Matt because I haven't had the same level of tiem to distill what I don't like about individual posts but

1) His obsession with the question of mechanical vs not mechanical feels like a scum posturing to me. He doesn't actually try to change it, he just makes fun of OTM for it.
2) He AGAIN feels really TMIy with several locktownreads that he doesn't explain, insulting several readslists with no indication of what's wrong with them, and his poorly explained Davesaz tr.
3) Back with 1: he repeatedly gets mad at townies for doing 'bad' things but makes no effort to change them, he just insults them and continues to sideline the game.
4) At no point in the game does he actually scumhunt or explain a read. Go through the game again, it literally never happens. He just has this Dunnstral scumread and pushes it, no explanation, insults a bunch of the popular wagons, no explanation, explains why Tchill is included in his scumpool earlier in the game but no explanation of why anyone there is scum.

[Ouroboros]

As for ramcius he has a number of disgusting points in the game that I think are worse than his town game would provide.

Spoiler: Ramcius PBPA

1) In the early game his choice of Tchill/Wilky didn't come down to reads at all, it came down to the mechanical reason that Tchill couldn't be vigged. I don't think that's a read development that Ramcius makes as town. I think he has actual reads.
2)

well, in my past large themes there wasn't, but i trust you on this

still, i'd prefer Tchill over Wilky, he came after both miller claims, so i feel it might be scum trying take advantage of miller claims

final answer
I would lean it a few percentage points towards it being his town meta although this result isn't especially conclusive
definitely enough to not want to lynch him today, yall can clusterfuck him later in the game when me and anony are gone if you want

@Ramcius???????????????????????????????????????????????????/
How the fuck is he scum trying to take advantage of miller claims in what way does claiming that as scum take advantage of miller claims?

Are you believe some weird hider claim that isn't weak? Or it's more likely scum trying smuggle in some fishy claim during confusion caused by millers and attracting less attention than it would get normally, and simultaneously getting protection form investigative roles?

These posts both just feel so, so awful. Likie this isn't an intellectual thing as much as it's a gut thing and a word choice he used so more Ventriloquist style but I feel like these are scum most of the time.
182 in particular kind of deserves a Ventriloquist level scumread but I gave him space for bad reasons I think.

I don't like Ventrilo's attempt push me, i dlike Wraith's "5 scum, no faceclaim", we still have Tchill/Wilky situation, Realmen asking to be burned with the fire, hebi's sheeping is unsettling, Nero is awkwardly silent

Hm, i guess i try

VOTE: Nero

others at least are talking

This is a really strange read: Nero has been doing a lot of stuff but he randomly decides that Nero is awkwardly silent. Feels like SvS, particularly with how Nero reacts which I've outlined earlier.

So... will this Ego battle end someday?

They asked me a fucking question. I answered it.

Also can anyone confirm that's something Ram does on every game?

Since no one else wanted to actually look, I did. I only found the following as far as calling someone town, in a large theme where he replaced in, this was the only post containing a townread, and it was over 60 posts in.

Subject: Surreptitious II: Secrets and Misdirection

Gut says Desp town, probably go for Von tbh

Majiffy, i almost have more posts than you and i replaced in, so if that's your only "scumtell" on me, i pitty you, really

Subject: Real Folk Blues Rematch [GAME OVER]

@smith/Titus: Let me ask you two.. what makes Ram scummier than ZZZX or Socrates? What have they done (or haven't done) that he didn't (or did)?

The resistance to conftown for me. Socrates as scum (well the only place I have seen him), he was actually more active than this. I didn't like his outward hostility to me early.

Has Ramcius still been a stick in the mud regarding your conftown status?

a) Titus not conf town, but very close to it
b) i don't pushing or trying to interact with Titus at all, it's pointless to do so with her current status, only she wanting my head for some reason

Again, over 70 posts in, the first and only townread mentioned.

I don't feel like looking more as this seems to be just the way he posts. So... NAI.

ETL

eh, some people have too much free time, you simply could see that RC isn't bringing hell on me as he played with me and was metadiving, alternatively, why would i make such lie instead of just throwing few names as townreads? That was a bold claim and RC/MariaR/Nero would just crucify me, if it was a lie

Why does he single out Nero here (again this is highly associative based, preflip, BUT) when they don't have any particular experience with each other?

GiF

my vote should be on Nero

y aren't you trying to engage me or talk about my content or anything?

i would, but there's hardly anything to engage in your ISO

Well its hard to post content with all that lurking that I'm doing.

but real talk: That's not true and you know it.

UNVOTE:

I doubt i can get anything more from you, if no one else is joining me, but i'll keep eye on you

Again, just independently scummy since this guy has shown in previous games he's stubborn enough to gladiate Town!Maria who was universally townread and got lynched for it. Now he's not bothering with this push.
Also the focus on 'getting anything more' as opposed to seeing it as sorting or whatever is scummy in and of itself

your earlier questions about my opinion on Dave and why he can't be scum in sounded like you asking opinion from town, yet you again pushing my lynch, when people realised i'm town and left my wagon

I townread this at first but now I'm not so sure.

I don't like this post, it feels like Ank is trying save Vent and preparing for worst case scenario by doing some damage control after Vent will flip red

Same thing I called someone else (wilky) out for earlier, he's not voting for Vent OR Ankamius but he's trying to tie people to Vent.
He goes down this line of thought a lot but it never occurs to him to actually vote the person that he's trying to tie Ankamius to.

You guys might have a better shot at engaging people if you didn't post hundreds of posts when everyone else has like 20

This is at least a little disingenuous

i see why people want lynch you - instead of doing something productive you complain about people trying advance game

Just generally bad.

hmmmmm

VOTE: Wraith

I just don't see Dave being scum and rb on him is very weak argument, we aren't in such dire state to go after him and we can lynch someone we scumread instaed

Putting these together choronologically but this just vibes scum hard: what does dire state to go after him mean, it's just weird and it feels like scum trying to sound town.
Ramcius doesn't sound like this as town by the way.

So Ramcius PBPA

1) Gutscum galore. That's the absolute first tier reason for my ramcius scumread since everything else can be handwaved by 'he is just bad!' but he pings me like crazy going through again.
2) His progressions on reads often feel horrible and less TMI and more just not real, the focus on a vig existing being a major one but also several other points in the game.
3) God awful associatives with Nero that both make him look scummy and that tie him to a slot that has awful associatives going the opposite direction as well.


Oh and btw I am not 100% locktown on OTM. I want to make that 100% clear to everyone in the game. If they are still alive to endgame they should die there.
I do not think it's impossible that something really strange happened wrt scum discussion that led to Hebi claiming where she did. He's not my first slot for scum, but I want that brought up.

[Ouroboros]

I am going to start by voting ProjectMatt because that is the overlapping scumread between myself and Anonymousghost but if we are closer to a Ramcius lynch we are willing to vote there.

VOTE: Projectmatt

[Ramcius]

ofc my and Nero interaction felt weird, i'm not picking fight with him after i had to replace out from Clash of the Gods, when i semi-jokingly/semi reaction test voted him D1 and he was town. Our fight wasn't on your guys level, but it was toxic enough not to want deal with that again. As a scum he wasn't so aggressive, even when i was deathtunneling him like no tomorrow in Surreptitious, so when i got aggressive response from him, it felt towny and i didn't wanted go furher without support

P-edit: what do you mean i don't have experience with Nero? I played like 6 games with him, couple times we clashed really hard

Oh boy, me not voting Vent too? I always try have long D1 and Vent wagon was big enough, i have no reason to push it more, but voting other people that i wanted to sort out, RC should know that i rarely join biggest wagons D1, but i was ready vote him close to deadline, if my vote was needed

[Ouroboros]

ourboros, are you going to clarify where your reads are coming from or is it part of the Sacred Secret Mechanics that you aren't allowed to talk about?

I pulled them out of a deep dark place.

answer me.

hmm gee i wonder why ourboros goes silent the moment i ask them to clarify their reads

i too, would like to find out the basis for the scumreads. unfortunately,

M E C H A N I C S

are more important

i would genuinely love nothing more than for you to make a case for me being mafia

Also with regards to ProjectMatt: this amount of caring about my scumread on him feels scum indicative. This isn't the reaction I'd expect from town.

RC, at this point i just can't take your scumread on me serious it's like 3rd time you want me lynched

This is just a scumclaim though lol.

[Ramcius]

RC, at this point i just can't take your scumread on me serious it's like 3rd time you want me lynched

This is just a scumclaim though lol.

After RC tried build wagon on me for reaction test, after he did 180 cause "Vent might flip green", some mysterious case isn't not even funny anymore. I'm really surprised how long it took for you to bring my interactions with Nero and me not being on Vent wagon to make "case" on me, so sorry for being sarcastic, just my interest for this game going low and soon might reach Real Folks Blue level

[Ouroboros]

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

[Ankamius]

Hi Punreader!

RC I'll analyze the case later, hold me to it

[Ouroboros]

Also the Nero cain case is more... objective? whereas the other one is more... based on personal opinions of things. I'm not necessarily certain that the second is less effective but

[Ramcius]

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

[projectmatt]

I am not going to do a PBPA of Matt because I haven't had the same level of tiem to distill what I don't like about individual posts but

1) His obsession with the question of mechanical vs not mechanical feels like a scum posturing to me. He doesn't actually try to change it, he just makes fun of OTM for it.
2) He AGAIN feels really TMIy with several locktownreads that he doesn't explain, insulting several readslists with no indication of what's wrong with them, and his poorly explained Davesaz tr.
3) Back with 1: he repeatedly gets mad at townies for doing 'bad' things but makes no effort to change them, he just insults them and continues to sideline the game.
4) At no point in the game does he actually scumhunt or explain a read. Go through the game again, it literally never happens. He just has this Dunnstral scumread and pushes it, no explanation, insults a bunch of the popular wagons, no explanation, explains why Tchill is included in his scumpool earlier in the game but no explanation of why anyone there is scum.

1. I've tried to change it. I think the over-reliance on mechanics was/is ruining the game, and the reason I posted so heavily about mechanics is because OTM was leading the game in a direction where scumhunting/actual discussion wasn't taking place. In fact, I would argue that a huge part of the reason the day hasn't ended yet is because I actively challenged the Dave lynch.

I guess you could call that "posturing", but that doesn't make much logical sense. Of course I'm going to care about a game not being driven by mechanics when I think it's actively harming us.

2. Why didn't you ask me to explain any of these reads? It's pretty weird to not engage with me about my read-list and then paint it as scummy that I didn't explain all of my reads without prompting.

3. You're assuming that calling out my townreads for being anti-town isn't an effective way to get them to stop, or at least better than nothing. You make the incorrect assumption that I'm not trying to change things and get reads.

4. The vast majority of my posts are scumhunting. Why do you think I ask people questions? Why do you think I call people out for "bad" posts? I scumhunt differently, but that doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting.

We obviously have different playstyles, and I think that this is a case of you incorrectly assuming that different play = scum.

[projectmatt]

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

yikes, alright

UNVOTE

VOTE: Ramcius

[Dunnstral]

You should vote ProjectMatt then!

VOTE: ProjectMatt

sure

yikes, alright

UNVOTE

VOTE: Ramcius

too late

[Dunnstral]

4. The vast majority of my posts are scumhunting. Why do you think I ask people questions? Why do you think I call people out for "bad" posts? I scumhunt differently, but that doesn't mean I'm not scumhunting.

You've never asked me any questions