Open 724 - Pick Your Power X/Y [Endgame]

[Taly]

Oh shit Fast-ass game.

Multiple things I picked up through half-skim/half-reading. ((I'm going to reread later, though))

1)

I've seen everyone here before

{Almost50, Brassherald, Ausuka}

the most.

{Lalendra, Ircher, Mathdino, Lovebird, the worst, Iconeum}

to a lower degree.
I've seen the rest of the playerlist once or twice:

{mutant, Beefster, Simyk, The Janitor}

2)

Math

, can you explain to me your analysis of the draft in depth? It's NAI for someone to try and get a PR because it helps the alignment of the person it's under. I mostly play games where I'm more likely to get a PR than not. This is a preference, not an AI thing, unless I'm misinterpreting your post.

Honestly, I pre-planned the number I was going to send to the Mod BEFORE the full playerlist even signed up.

-

I didn't think to send a number higher than 10 because I had no clue what other people would do.

-

I figured since

{1, 2, 3}

were more likely to be repeated, and

{8, 9, 10}

were a bit too high, I went with the lowest in

{

4

, 5, 6, 7}

I'm actively working to be NKed due to loud AF gamesolving, so that's how that went...

3)

204 I don't see this coming from scum, pretty bold, and I see

the worst

is asking questions and making assessments.

Early townlean

4)

21

Lovebird

, you stated that the people on page 1 are town, can you provide some reasoning, and has that changed for you?

5)

Can people explain their reads to me on

Beefster

? Honestly, I like 16 of him, I don't see much benefit in discussing setup extremely early, I think that's likely to cause WIFOM later and this post tells me he's aware of too much information being spewed would end up hurting the town later.

6)

i have 5 reads already

- Talk to me about them, it hasn't been a full 24 hours yet so the quick 9 pages are fuzzy to me.

7)

138 I'm not fond of this post, you quoted

the worst

several times and then didn't really elaborate on your thoughts or engage with questions, I don't see your thought process.

VOTE: Iconeum

I may be unresponsive for the most, if not the rest of the day; I don't know yet. In either case, if I'm unavailable now, I'll be more active later. If I remain active, then I'll be keeping a medium standard.

I'm not in a good frame of mind for Mafia. X_X

Also, some of you already know this, but detailing your thoughts with questions and organizing them when you're posing them to me is the best way for me to get my thoughts out there and for worthwhile engagement.

[Taly]

There are a lot of posts with a good amount of information behind the explanation in their reads and pushes; but this is all at a fast pace with the game and skimming through this thread makes it hard for me to grasp onto the reads, specifically with the jumps in pushes here.

My posting style-meta is that I usually do 1-2 posts per day - and they hold a lot of content. Recently, I've been thinking that's not very viable with the pace in some games, and I want my thoughts to be as clear and easy-to-digest as possible.

So right now, I'm working to do conversational posts so it will be easier for me and others to sort the game.

Iconeum

is VLA. :/ I still want him to respond to me, but I'm not going to votepark here for much longer if he's 100% MIA.

[Taly]

Major Thoughts Since My Post + Some Quote Responses

7) 138 I'm not fond of this post, you quoted the worst several times and then didn't really elaborate on your thoughts or engage with questions, I don't see your thought process.

I'm not sure how far you caught up but what did you think about the way he pressured Janitor? (ʃ⌣́,⌣́ƪ)

178 is a lot of assumptions without engaging or asking questions. It strikes me as having an accusatory tone.

Of mutant is scum here, consider me overly impressed. I have never seen him look townier!

Yeah, I'm not understanding the

mutant

scumread. Page 10 seemed completely genuine with his engagement to the playerlist while he provided content and questioning.

Can someone explain their scumread on him? I don't see it.

seriously

what has mutant done that's particularly townish

What has

mutant

done that's particularly scummish?

VOTE: A50 for being salty I got the nr1 spot with nr1.

Scummy

I'm not fond of that post, moreso because I think it's his opener if I didn't misread when I skimmed. Can you explain your

Ausuka

vote/push, though?

Lovebird, you stated that the people on page 1 are town, can you provide some reasoning, and has that changed for you?

They were towny. Idk, will go back and look.

I'll look at the first few pages as well.

Town: Lovebird, TW

Probtown: Beefster, SIMYK

Unlikely scum by draft: Ausuka, brassherald, Taly
Unlikely scum in general: Iconeum

To sort: Ircher, Lalendra

Probscum: Janitor, one of {A50, mutant}

Some of your reads seem dependent on the drafts still though, but we're 17 pages in. Could you elaborate on your

mutant

scumread, and your change in

Beefster

being scum?

~

Will look at

Ircher

in depth through a separate post, but I like that they're organizing their thoughts and are applying them to gain information.

Where's

brassherald

? I want him to post more that doesn't ring to me as fluff, and I'd like to see his assessment of the playerlist. Same goes for

Almost50

, I haven't much notable content through half-skim/half-read, and I don't know his thinking at that moment.

Also, why do people think

SIMYK

is an alt, and even if they were, why does it matter? They have a completely unique posting style on this site than what I know, so this is purely a fluff conversation. I will say, I do like their longer winded posts and they're well-reasoned in their thinking.

Townreading: the worst, Beefster

Townleaning: Math, Ircher, SIMYK, mutant

Sorting Out: Ausuka, Lovebird, Janitor, Brass, Lalendra, Almost50

Scumleaning: Iconeum

Scumreading: -Pending-

It feels a bit early for me to do the full

"In-depth Taly Day-Readslist"

and the majority of my reads are not confident yet.

[Taly]

You can lynch my leg if you want. But I'd prefer you didn't hang me by my neck so that I can keep breathing and speaking.

^LYNCH THIS!

True mutants breathe through their skin.

Can you articulate your reads? I keep hearing a lot of "this is town" and "this is scum" with the posts the past several pages and I'm struggling to filter out the reasons.

I want people to point to me specific posts and elaborate on their cases instead of detailing responses that engage with specific people.

178 is a lot of assumptions without engaging or asking questions. It strikes me as having an accusatory tone.

I believe you missed that with which I was attempting to engage you Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)

Your comment on 178 was RELATIVELY RELEVANT and is a PERSPICACIOUS POINT - yet, I was interested in what your tendencies towards Iconeum’s posts later on that page were! At the present point, I can see a STRONG town motive to those posts so I wanted to hear what the SCUM perspective of it was in your view so that I can ESTABLISH which divison of my ICONEUM read I should emphasize (ʃ⌣́,⌣́ƪ)

I do agree that Brass feels LACKING however and would like to see more from him in terms of SCUMHUNTING - tonally I like what I see so far but I need more (✿´ ꒳ ` )

Also can you EXPAND on your Ircher townread?

I just didn't feel that the push on Janitor by Iconeum was genuine; 194 and 194 were essentially adding onto a discredit while simplifying Janitor's responses in the game.

I haven't dug much deeper in that, but it's one thing I found through my initial read in the thread. I don't see much of a point in pursuing it right now since Iconeum's VLA and has not even posted anywhere to my knowledge.

My Ircher Townread Is Multi-Faceted Given His Recent Posts-

1)

217 - He stayed true to his opener post and he's provided a lot of content given his reads.

2)

To an extent, I don't see the point in set-up speccing without any flip information yet, we haven't literally nothing but the draft to go on and trying to find scum in simple numbers through an order is both impractical and gives NO other information EVEN if someone is correct. It's luck, essentially. I like that

Ircher

is one of the few people stressing that notion to

Mathdino

.

3)

429 and 520 is an extremely expansive analysis, almost post-by-post, of someone's reads. Unless Ircher is doing his very best to dictate the perception in this thread - which I extremely doubt he's doing, given there's almost no defense for his wagon - tells me that his effort is coming from a sympathetic and individualistic standpoint.

Essentially, I think his reads are very towny, even with the numbers and strong doses of technicality he places into them. I don't find the strong effort here to be with an underlying scum-motivation.

I'm having a hard time grasping some of the wagons and scumreads this game

Saske

; so I'd love to hear your case for

Ircher

-scum, or any of your scumreads.

I feel like one of Ircher and MathDino are probably scum.

What's with the dichotomy here? Are you saying they both can't be scum together or town together? Why?

FWIW i agree that A50 is much more likely scum than not here

but i will always disagree with lynching A50 on D1

if we're both town we'll figure it out (and one of us probably gets NK'd lol)

...So, you're pretty confident in a scumread, but you're not going to push to lynch it? Is this based solely on meta knowledge on

Almost50

?

~~~

1) the worst

, what are your reads at the moment? A quick look through your ISO and I see a lot of responses and some fluffy posts. What do you think of

Ausuka

at the moment, in retrospect to your vote on her 276 - and what about

Almost50

gives you townvibes?

2) Mathdino

, the last thing I ever want in a Mafia game is a nullread on me. I encourage you to ask me questions, that's the best way for me to formulate my thoughts in a cohesive manner.

3)

512 Elabroate here,

Lovebird

.

~~~

I'll reread the thread against tomorrow or Monday, but for now;

UNVOTE:

I'm too... not-opinionated... I'm fixing that shit ASAP.

[Taly]

1) the worst

, what are your reads at the moment? A quick look through your ISO and I see a lot of responses and some fluffy posts. What do you think of

Ausuka

at the moment, in retrospect to your vote on her 276 - and what about

Almost50

gives you townvibes?

I'll quote this so it sticks into your memory.

I'd also like to know why you'd want to lynch

mutant

, I still don't fully see the scumreads on him?

- ALL scumhunting is luck. Using calculations based on empirical evidence is no different. I show my work when appropriate.
If someone's draft number makes them 15% more likely to be scum, how is that any different from the tone of someone's post making them 15% more likely to be scum?

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

You're completely ignoring any information that someone can use to detect someone as scum or town that DOESN'T come from mathematical probabilities or subsets from numbers. Simplying scumhunting as complete luck is a DIRECT simplification of a subjective game. Right now, you're coming to me based off semantics and not off the idea of trying to UNDERSTAND something in a subjective realm where we can communicate our ideas.

This mentality does little to nothing in helping someone see your point of view in this game.

- Your Ircher townread is based off of agreeing that you don't like my shit

Stopping you right here, because you're wrong.

I never said that the setup spec was inherently wrong to do; I stated that there's no practical reason for discussing it off NO defined information.

Me Saying-

"I don't like what

Mathdino's

doing here"

and

"I don't see the point of what

Mathdino's

doing at the moment, and I agree with this other person's approach"

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Reread my post.

and on the notion that effort is alignment-indicative.

And instead of trying to UNDERSTAND my townread, you're minimizing MY OPINION.

- Did I say I townread Ircher because of effort?

Yeah, to a degree.

- Did I say that that was the SOLE reason I townread him because of effort?

Fucking no. I saw no scum-motivation from the depth within his reads and he wasn't using his developed reads as a source to create WIFOM or unnecessarily scumread or townread someone WITHOUT REASON.

Ircher is doing nothing to move the game forward or to push his agenda.

I disagree, he's provides tons of content to look at later in the game when flips have been discovered.

But I do agree in the fact that he doesn't have an agenda... because what the fuck agenda would town need in this game other than townhunt and scumhunt?

His reads list reads to me like he wanted to dump a massive amount of effort while under pressure to get one or two suckers off his back.

This sounds extremely overconfident and highly tunnel-minded.

You're making the assumption that someone ENGAGING with the people suspecting them are coming from a scum mentality?

What the hell are you hoping to figure out by pushing

Ircher

with this mentality?

Another thing is, I REPLIED with a better elaboration of my Ircher townread in the first place. If you disagreed with me, you could ask me questions on my explanations or put up a case LIKE I WAS PRODDING PEOPLE TO DO.

- There are certain people that are straight up bad lynches for a variety of reasons. Confidence in a scumread doesn't mean I'm willing to take the gamble of lynching them. Lynching an A50 who I think is scum with, say, >40% confidence (which is about the threshold it takes for me to lynch someone) is high-risk low-reward. Scum A50 is not difficult to lynch and only has as much influence as town gives him.

This still doesn't give any game evidence or intrinsic reasoning behind why you wouldn't pursue a confident scumread.

Are you genuinely looking at other people to find more general confidence in your reads, or are you unsure of Almost50? I don't understand your thought process here.

- I can't think of anything to say or ask to you that would harden a read. Your posting style is easy to hide behind as scum. It's difficult to gauge the sincerity. I need associatives and flips for you. Kind of like A50 actually.

If you can't figure out anything to say or ask me, then ISO me until you do. It's really not that difficult from my perspective.

Or just keep engaging with me like this and hopefully I don't rip my hair out. I elaborated on my townread, and I'm not fond with the way you tried deconstruct one of the few reasoned townreads on

Ircher

.

And I'm taking this a step further and saying that I think

Ircher

could be town because there's literally NOBODY from what I've been reading the past few pages - correct me if I'm wrong - that's actually trying to assess the points of any case against him outside of agreeing or taking a neutral stance.

And I'm guessing you're not certain of your

Almost50

read?

...

[Taly]

I completely reciprocate this feeling back to you and I feel like I'm being talked down to, seriously.

And I UNDERSTAND that wallposts ARE more difficult to read, but I've got a lot of thoughts and I'm not afraid to share them.

[Taly]

Ugh, I'm sorry if it seemed like I got truly worked up there and bolted at you

Mathdino

, but I'm genuinely frustrated with your approach here, and I'm trying to discern if this is AI or just playstyle conflict because I'm struggling to understand your perspective and I don't think you were trying to see mine.

[Taly]

It's too late at night for me to deal with this. I'm gone. I'll reply more in depth tomorrow if I have the time because I've been very busy lately and it's hindered my enthusiasm for this at the moment, and I'm working to not let that happen.

Mathdino

, I stated my initial reasoning for why I believe Ircher is town and elaborated on that, and I WANTED people to explain their reads in depth so we could gain a stronger sense of each other's perspective and potentially see things to help ourselves navigate through the game.

I think you've completely misinterpreted my points, and I may have misinterpreted yours, and I need to take my mind out of this so I can think clearly.

Yes, there is a reason to spoiler your posts, because it could be easier for someone to read through in small chunks versus huge walls with no defined labels on what's what.

And if you think my ISO's are painful, then :shrug: ....I'll rally some of my games and let you look through them, but I don't think meta is a completely accurate way to read many people, and if I had to meta myself; I'd say there's very little surface-level different between town-me and scum-me.

Regardless, I think meta-reads are usually shit, and I've said that as all alignments at some point

; and I didn't like your performance in the game where YOU were scum, but that's not a GOOD, VIABLE resource to meta-read you on.

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

i just wanna quote/pagebottom this for emphasis on hilarity:

taly seems to think that the draft numbers are randomized

I'm sorry, can you mindread people and why they'd pick numbers they did for the draft?

Please, stop degrading and mocking my insights.

~~~

Saske, Almost50, the worst;

I'll get to you guys soon enough.

[Taly]

3) 429 and 520 is an extremely expansive analysis, almost post-by-post, of someone's reads. Unless Ircher is doing his very best to dictate the perception in this thread - which I extremely doubt he's doing, given there's almost no defense for his wagon - tells me that his effort is coming from a sympathetic and individualistic standpoint.

I can EMPATHIZE with this read, but I think the MORE alignment indicative part (the EXPANSIVENESS of the ANALYSIS) is NOT town indicative - I concur with Math-sensei that effort is NOT alignment indicative. As a result I am hesitant to EXPRESS an IDENTICAL concurring on your description of 217 as "a lot of content given his reads" as you have STATED ( ´•̥ו̥` )

The presence of HUMAN ERROR however prevades, which is why I am taking care to interact with AUSUKA-CHAN about the validity of Ircher's self-meta. PLUS I would like to see how much of this read is NAI based on PERSONALITY. But now I shall WROUGHT a unblemished case for your perusal next ٩(•̤̀ᵕ•̤́๑)૭✧

I reiterated and expanded on my reasons for

Ircher

town in 539, if you still don't agree with my townread I'd like to see a more concisely formulated case.

I think self-meta is usually skewed; and meta in general is not a good read unless you've had multiple games with someone in different alignments each. So I don't see the meta-argument with

Ircher

, here.

And what are your thoughts over

Ausuka

? She's posted her thoughts more cleanly and her pushes, I'm going to look at them in depth soon.

I just didn't feel that the push on Janitor by Iconeum was genuine; 194 and 194 were essentially adding onto a discredit while simplifying Janitor's responses in the game.

Also taking a SECOND look into this I do feel this interpretation makes a lot more SENSE than how I INITIALLY INTERPRETED it

ICONEUM when you are back from your V/LA could you possibly provide us with provisional placements of the players in this game? As my null pile THINS OUT and I see the case to SCUMREAD YOU I would like to place you on my own and I believe this is the right place to start - ESPECIALLY considering you are a PRIORITY sort! ٩(๑•̀ㅂ•́)و

How do you feel about

mutant

? I'm guessing you suspect

Iconeum

and are scumreading

Ircher

?

@Taly: 425 was obviously a joke. I TR mutant by tone an effort.

Also, my approach is so simple it doesn't really need much elaboration/exploration. Scum will pick the smallest numbers without repetition. So, 1-2-3 is ideal. However, if they suspected (and they should have) town might also go for those, they'd try to avoid being on duplicate numbers, so they'd probably pick 1-3-5, 1-4-6, 2-3-4 ..etc.

So, I'm going for 1/2 to have at least one scum in them, but will also note both players who picked '2' cannot be scum together (no repetition).

So, it's Icon (picked 1 when no one else did) and Janitor (picked 2, which is also what Math has picked, but I'm TRing Dino).

Hopefully by the time both are lynched we would have results from other slots on other slots. That's it in a nutshell.

So you're thinking

Iconeum

is more likely scum than

Janitor

based on looking into the brackets, and you're stating an associative with

Iconeum, Lalendra and the worst

(?)

How did you come to this conclusion?

I see the possibility of

Iconeum

scum, but I have townvibes coming from

TW

and I think

Lalendra

has been generally ineffective.

I wanna wagon ... lalendra

sure
VOTE: Lalendra

Preferred option but why are you against mutant?

VOTE: Lalendra

You keep following other people's votes TW, is that mostly to gauge a read on

Ausuka's

alignment?

1) the worst, what are your reads at the moment? A quick look through your ISO and I see a lot of responses and some fluffy posts. What do you think of Ausuka at the moment, in retrospect to your vote on her 276 - and what about Almost50 gives you townvibes?

I like SIMYK Lovebird Iconeum Math A50 Ausuka for town, roughly in that order. For the record I have a 0% success rate with reading Ausuka so will not prescribe a hard read there unless there is a good one to sheep.

A50 has been inconsistent but a couple of things from him have struck me tonally as unlikely to come from scum!A50. I have been buddies with him once and seen him as a TPR once and he's net more reminiscent of the latter

Was your sheep-vote on

Lalendra

based on an individual scumread?

I've never liked self-votes, but I've seen games where

Almost50

does it as either alignment and I've definitely seen him as town come from the mentality of sympathizing with a self-vote. The biggest meta-thing I can give from

Almost50

is that he's likely town here with his mindset. It's not strong though.

~~~~

Spoiler: Reply to Mathdino

After some retrospect, I feel like

Math

and I were clashing a bit. We had different viewpoints coming into the game and I did get heated quickly and that didn't serve to help anything, and I can see his mentality more likely coming from town than scum. He's thinking in depth about his reads and he's drawing as much information as he knows to solidify them.

- The current paragon winner won due to being the best general metadiver on this site in history.
I don't claim success rates close to that. I've been specifically working to get better at the meta side of play over the past few months (rolling town a lot helps with that).
Knowing how someone thinks is the single best advantage you can have over them when they're scum.

- Did you seriously just ask me whether I can read people for why they picked the numbers they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd make the votes they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd choose the roles they did?
Can you mindread people and why they'd make the posts they did?

Everything is readable if you have the tools to do so. I have data. And yes, there are some players in this game that I CAN read based off the numbers they picked. Hell, I'll fully admit I planned out my opening. I picked 2 because I expected it to fuck over scum (because scum tends to pick 2 in this setup with probability greater than random). But beyond that, I was planning on telling everyone that in my first post.

But I guess all that info is useless, yeah?

I don't think the info. was useless, I wasn't sure about how you came to those conclusions. I don't think it's that easy to predict unless you know specific players, but some people are less predictable. I think a conclusion would be stronger with a flip.

I made myself clear; I thought of my number before the full playerlist even signed up, and I wanted a PR regardless of my alignment, and that was one of the bigger reasons I joined the game.

I've already crumbed the aftermath of that in my first post, and full-claiming would defeat the purpose of my gameplay right now.

I looked through

Lalendra's

ISO and I haven't seen anything noteworthy
Her opening post in 221 provides no original insight and the other posts don't have much to add after 200 posts in the game.

VOTE: Lalendra

I want to see where this wagon goes.

Also really hate it when I don't have my vote in play, and when I'm almost searching for scumreads when I generally have good townreads. :/

[Taly]

I'll post more after Wednesday this week, but I'll give an update about my reads and thoughts so far most likely tomorrow.

I've had finals to do today, and I have finals for the next 2 days; so I'm mentally a bit drained and busy.

[Taly]

Damn it Had a reply post partially written but I had to leave, and I forgot to save it... D:

Incoming wallposts.

[Taly]

•Mathdino townleaning
•mutantdevle townleaning (I feel his push against Math is town, scum would not draw attention into a SvT if they could just kill of a town Math at night).
•SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis Meh. I don't dislike this, but meh.
•Ausuka townleaning, based on the reads (beef and lalendra as scumreads)
•the worst has me pocketed so hoping town.
•davesaz replaced Almost50 could be scum. Has lol-scumreads, and I've seen his frustrations before as scum being scumread. Also he's scumreading me for picking #1.
•brassherald townlean
•Lalendra low content. could be scum
•Myloninja13 replaced Beefster low content. His vote on janitor is good though.
•The Janitor scumreading. stated these reasons earlier.
•Lovebird would like to see more information for the push on me. Attacking me on my RVS-opening and that 'awkward' mention are just weird. But I will probably be able to sort Love properly.
•Iconeum
•Taly townleaning. Scumhunting with effort.
•Ircher scumhunting effort, townreading

I'm still lynching Janitor. His ISO is scum. Reread my ISO to see the case on him. Open for discusion!

fp'd like a million times

I still don't understand the scumreads here with

Janitor

; the reasons against him seem very understated since I've had to dig through multiple ISOs to understand the suspicion there.

I think

Janitor's

likely town from what I've seen. 111 was a post that wanted to avoid any WIFOM generated by pure setup spec, and I don't agree with SIMYK's assessment that

Janitor

hasn't taken any stances, or that his first posts were objectively bad. He's made his reads and thoughts very clear in multiple posts; 186, 196, 213, 406, and 605

While I'd

Janitor

to expand on his recent readslist, he's made an active attempt to talk to people whenever he's online and he's engaged with a lot of people. His play is pro-town to me.

I don't understand your insistence in lynching him; and 178 was 500+ posts ago, has any of your other reads notably changed since then?

@Taly, sorry I missed it but you were talking about my #138

I always post something bad on the worst, because I need to see his reaction to sort him. Usually I scumread him early, and this game I think he's town.

What made you go from scum to town on him?

Ausuka, I feel your lovebird vote/case is partly OMGUS. Lovebird was also scumreading me because I had an RVS-vote. We need more from Love to properly sort there.

Who else?

OMGUS is not a well-constructed reason to make your thoughts more understood.

Oh, and UNVOTE: until I actually read what's happened.

Good first impression, aware of the gamestate; I'd like to see their thoughts upon them catching up.

Then, we have the Lalendra wagon. At least two players that I more or less townread are on it... But I'm not sure if it will get anywhere. Like, I agree that Lalendra hasn't done much, but what is this wagon accomplishing?

Yeah, I think I'm really starting to prefer the Lalendra wagon over The Janitor right now...
VOTE: Lalendra

Well things like this make me think that my scum read on you is more on you actually being scummy rather than your playstyle.

You acknowledge that this wagon has only formed out of Lalendra's lack of activity and that it likely isn't going to achieve anything. Yet you then join it? Literally what... why are you on this wagon? You don't scum read Lalendra. You acknowledge the flaws within it. You don't need to be on this wagon. This post comes across as though you feel like you need to be doing something with your vote - which I've seen more often from scum who feel pressured than I have town.

...15+ pages later... we're still going with the case that

Ircher

is scum based on his reaction to being hardpushed from 418 to 608 with the same people on the wagon.

Voting for another wagon, while acknowledging the grievances of it, and not having a defined scumread on it, is usually not AI.

You keep waffling on the nature of your read but you seem pretty confident in it, so I don't quite know your thought process.

How do you feel about mutant? I'm guessing you suspect Iconeum and are scumreading Ircher?

With regards to MUTANT, his posting gives me MIXED feelings ┐( ˘_˘)┌

NONE of his analysis feels particularly INSIGHTFUL in a manner that ONLY town can be, but his INTERACTIONS with Almost50-hannin clearly show that they are NOT partners (๑•̀ㅂ•́)و

WITH Almost50-hannin's replace out AND his UNNATURAL townread of Mutant I am INCLINED to say that these two slots are NEVER both scum ((((；゜Д゜)))

IF I were NOT scumreading A50 THIS would be my prefered POINT OF PRESSURE as a result

Iconeum I desire a REVIEW while I catchup so I will RETURN to this thought process afterwards.

pedit: It seems your conclusion is that there is NOT much to go off of there, which I think is reasonable ╭( ･ㅂ･)و ̑̑

ANYWAY so yeah

We are NOT lynching Ahiru-tan, Math-sensei, Taly, Ausuka-chan, Mylo, Janitor, or Icon (because of his draft NOT because of his posts) today (*•̀ᴗ•́*)و ̑̑

VOTE: Lalendra

REGARDLESS of my READ of IRCHER the wagon here is CLEARLY town, I am STILL going to write my points on IRCHER for taly BUT we need to CONSOLIDATE and this also gives Ausuka-chan more time to read Ircher (ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧

Ausuka-chan let's go BACK here!

Is

Lalendra

a scumread in your eyes?

I'd like the points on

Ircher

; why

Lalendra's

a higher priority to you, and what made you think

Iconeum

was more likely to be town in your eyes?

snip

I don't like you pushing someone who seems pretty blatantly town. The rest of the post is pretty alright so shrug. I was told you're quite good as town, high expectations.

Pfft, I've had my fair share of off-games.

D:< *referencing Mini Normal: 1568*

{Eddie}
{Simyk}
{Mutant}
{The Worst, Iconeum}
confident above^ are all town, leaving a PoE of {Mathdino, Ausuka, Davesaz, Lalendra, Myloninja13, The Janitor, Lovebird, Taly, Ircher}

Isn't Taly supposed to be a great player? I think she had 2 posts lmao. I have no clue what to do with mathdinkle I flip flopped a lot on reading him. I'll go townie side. Ausuka meh scummy. Dave slot meh scummy. Mylo meh townie. Janitor scummy. Lovebird scummy. Ircher scummy.

Elaborate on the

Janitor

and

Ircher

reads because I'm not understanding it. :/

[Taly]

I don't think people have taken enough time to evaluate the wagons, specifically

Ircher's

and the reads on them. I want people to explain them more, and I don't like how his wagon returned when

Lalendra's

completely deflated without

Lalendra

really doing anything. 806 to 808 and 811.

I'm even more inclined to think that

Ircher's

just lynchbait and nobody really shares the same sentiment,

which reinforces my thinking.

[Taly]

D1 Taly Full Readslist

Town

Math - Strong Townread

- While I don't fully agree with their approach on setup right now, I think it's largely based on playstyle and I feel like he's put forth a strong voice within the playerlist and he's done the most to expand on his thinking. He's also thought of the other possibilities in a game which tells me he's looking beyond the surface level in order to solve it.

Ircher - Strong Townread

- I think I've beat this to death so far,

if anyone has questions; then

PLEASE TALK TO ME.

Janitor - Moderate Townread

- Very similar case; don't agree with the suspicion on them and I feel like they're actively working to gamesolve.

Ausuka - Moderate Townread

- I'm pretty familiar with

Ausuka

; her being quick to try and gauge for information through wagons while also going into great depth about her perceptions give this a solid townread on her. This is partially meta, but with in-thread game evidence, I feel like this is town either way.

the worst - Moderate Townread

- Slightly questioning this a bit; but I think the worst's mentality of being laid back while engaging is town-motivated. I think he's pushing boundaries in order to improve his vision of the game.

Eddie - Slight Townread

- Made self a very prominent presence amongst their little time being among the playerlist. Giving reads and most definitely displaying a forward gamesolve standpoint.

Null/Questioning

Saske - Not Confident, Lean Town

- Probably one of the most volatile reads I have. I don't always see the reasoning behind their thoughts and I feel like they've voted with the flow of the town. However, they have been responsive and they are generating assessments to help further the gamestate. I had a hard time placing this as town or not.

Dave - Not Confident, Lean Town

- I don't like to read replacements like their predecessors. I was iffy on

Almost50

but I felt they were genuine. I also feel the same thing for

Dave

, but they haven't posted enough to sway me strongly.

Mylo - Null

- Similar to my

Dave

read but with a lot less content to judge off of.

Mutant - Not Confident, Lean Scum

- They're borderline voteparking on

Ircher

, someone I strongly feel is town, and while I do like they're content through Page 10, I haven't seen much beyond that that strikes me as towny.

Scum

Lovebird - Slight Scumread

- Literally posts

"this is town" and "this is scum"

without giving reasons and then disappears. Unhelpful, and I question how genuine their reads are.

Iconeum - Slight Scumread

- Probably the least confident of the scumreads, they're the most forward players out of my scumreads. But I still don't get their insistence on

Janitor

or their read progression.

Lalendra - Slight Scumread

- Mash my

Lovebird and Mylo

read together while looking at how quickly built their wagon was created, and then weakened - and that makes me think this is a worthy potential lynch and scum.

:/ My townreads are stronger than my scumreads currently, which I don't like at all, but I'm working to change that.

Of course, several reads are liable to change soon.

[Taly]

Scum
Lovebird - Slight Scumread - Literally posts "this is town" and "this is scum" without giving reasons and then disappears. Unhelpful, and I question how genuine their reads are.

Lol.

Yeah responses like these aren't changing my mind in the slighest.

[Taly]

Scum
Lovebird - Slight Scumread - Literally posts "this is town" and "this is scum" without giving reasons and then disappears. Unhelpful, and I question how genuine their reads are.

Lol.

Yeah responses like these aren't changing my mind in the slighest.

You really think those things you said had to do with if I'm scum?

Yeah I do, you're making definitive statements without going in full depth about your reasons or questions, and your responses thus far have been vague.

Your posts serve to generate a dichotomy or a discredit because you've also kept your vote on

Ausuka

since 273 without going into depth on why she's scum to you. I'd like you to elaborate on your thoughts in full.

Taly is one of the most obnoxious people ive seen lmao what the fuck

It's like that kid who tells the teacher you came in 30 seconds late or rattles on you for shoving Jimmy

Respond to my question on your

Janitor, Lovebird, Dave and Ircher

reads and maybe I'll entertain you.

[Taly]

Ircher

901

1) Janitor Comment:

I can see where you're coming from but I feel he's genuine and IS actively working to help perception in the game and solve it, so I do feel a townread is warranted.

2) The Worst Comment:

Don't know about their votes, I don't see a lot of independent thinking here, but I still think the majority of their posts come from a town mentality.

3) Eddie Cane Comment: Eddie

was one person I was wondering if they would be in the null category; though I don't see the scum motivation behind their posts from what I've seen so far.

4) Mylo Comment:

I don't like to read someone based on predecessors but I did agree with

Beefster

questioning the early setup spec, and I did feel like his posts were more likely town, but I haven't seen enough to solidify it.

5) Mutant/Lalendra Comments:

What's interesting about my reads there? What is your read on these two?

6) Lovebird Comment:

Elaborated on this in 903, let me know if that still doesn't clear things up for you.

7) Iconeum Comment:

This is why he's my least confident scumread, though I still want to see more before I fully rethink my stance.

Respond to my question on your

Janitor, Lovebird, Dave and Ircher

reads and maybe I'll entertain you.

Hmm.. Dunno, try reading my catchup? I talked about my reads on all of these except Dave who is a townread via Mathdinkle. Dont ask me stupid shit.

I did and my question still stands. Fucking explain them.

[Taly]

nitpicking kverprivelegaed generally annoying to talk to or coexist with

I gave an analogy because I dont wnat to be toxic

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

i just wanna quote/pagebottom this for emphasis on hilarity:

taly seems to think that the draft numbers are randomized

Yeah, I put up content

SOLELY

to get shit on.

[Taly]

If you're going to state problems you have with my gameplay then at least ATTEMPT to give a semi-impartial analysis.

yes the random caps and bold are annoying

but actually simyk is the one who told me taly is a really good player, so maybe we should look at her reads. What's wrong with Mutant? Ircher has 4 or 5 votes now including from some of your townreads (Mathdino particularly). Uou pointed nothing scummy out other than that. Also, trust me, I know Simyk very well and they're town. One of the people I can easiest read on site.

I don't bold on people's accord; if it's really that big of a deal then copy/paste my text somewhere and read it.

I'm not angry or trying to create an unreadable space, I bold and caps so I can get people's attention. Apparently, not always worthwhile ones.

And I did state my

Mutant

read clearly so far, I'd like to see them do something other than push an older wagon and I've seen

SIMYK

and

Mathdino

do more than that.

Furthermore, I don't know

SIMYK

much at all and I don't think they're clearly town like you do, so instead of dodging my question

EXPLAIN YOUR OTHER READS IN DEPTH TOO.

5) Mutant/Lalendra Comments: What's interesting about my reads there? What is your read on these two?

6) Lovebird Comment: Elaborated on this in 903, let me know if that still doesn't clear things up for you.

5) I have a readslist somewhere... Just ISO me cuz I'm too lazy
6) I still disagree; I think that is a playstyle thing for Lovebird, to give reads without explanations; no one else seems to be having issues with it.

So you're thinking this is more meta-based for

Lovebird

? I haven't seen enough to think otherwise, so I'd like to see some more explanation.

[Taly]

nitpicking kverprivelegaed generally annoying to talk to or coexist with

I gave an analogy because I dont wnat to be toxic

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

i just wanna quote/pagebottom this for emphasis on hilarity:

taly seems to think that the draft numbers are randomized

Yeah, I put up content

SOLELY

to get shit on.

OKAY your posts are

good

I'm

SORRY

Yeah, I'm already reminded once again for being

TALKED DOWN TO

for the

SECOND

time this game.

The answer to 917 is no by the way.

Cool. -_-

[Taly]

...

Playerlist:

"Where's Taly?"

Taly:

"I'm going to think a bit deeper about this guys!"

Playerlist:

"Why? Also, what is wrong with your reads?"

Taly:

"I'm explaining this a bit in depth here, can you elaborate on yours?"

Playerlist:

"Lol, no. Your opinions are weird, and the reasons you apply mean mean little to us as a whole."

I'm not doing another round of

"Ignore

Taly

while he gives unique opinions in the game"

. I've got shit to do tomorrow, I'm generally working through a frustrated mental funk, and I'm disliking the gamestate right now.

Maybe I am wrong about some of my townreads and scumreads, but I'm not spending another minute here right now to be pissed on.

Goodnight.

[Taly]

I mean you're clearly town
I don't think anyone was suspecting you for not being around

That's not the point. I don't give a damn if people suspect me about that or not.

I just don't think

"

Taly's

being hilarious"

,

"lol I don't want to explain things to you that are so obvious to me"

, and

"

Taly's

being obnoxious"

are constructive ways to react to someone posting their thoughts.

I'm officially done for the night because I need to unplug at this point.

[Taly]

I wanna chat w Taly sometime when hes recovered and I can set some time aside ftr

I'm willing to talk any time, as long as the following doesn't happen:

1)

Refuse to explain something when I ask a question.

2)

Talk to me as if I'm incapable of rational, independent, or critical thought. Like I don't know how to read or reason with something.

3)

Somehow literally miss the complete point of my posts and sentiments even when I've made them explicitly clear.

4)

Fail to ask when the point of my posts are not well understood

5)

Write me off as toxic or hostile when I'm expressing a conflicting opinion.

6)

Call me shit town without really engaging with me.

7)

Focus 100% on one aspect of my posts or my opinions without looking at the other.

Because these are the majority of the issues I've had in this game.

I do realize to an extent I am doing this whole

"I'm sad"

loop that I've done in pre-2-year-absence before, but I don't want that to be consistent now.

And yeah, I am still feeling a bit upset about last night, but I don't think I'll feel better until I let my thoughts be known and talk

WITH

someone, so I can work more efficiently toward solving the game.

~

I'm going to dedicate a post to re-ISOing

Ircher

, and evaluating

SIMYK's

case in depth.

Lalendra;

1)

What makes you comfortable with the

Ircher

vote?

2)

What do you think about the wagon that was on you?

3)

General readslist?

[Taly]

I'll never understand self-votes.

Wait, I'm typing things up in response to

SIMYK and Ircher

.

And I'd prefer to have

Lalendra

and

the worst

reply to me before the dayphase ends.

[Taly]

SIMYK

So is the root of your case based on

Ircher's

stance with

Math

? I read through your case, and I do agree with some of the points you brought up; in regards to his unclear read of

Math

429, and the comment of

"we're never going to see eye-to-eye"

seems like creating a division and not desiring to work with someone disagreeing with him.

And there are some things you brought up that I drew a different conclusion and thought.

((Refer to my questions toward him))

Overall, I don't see a strong link to scum-motivation here. I feel like the uncertainty within his reads could also come from town working to make sense of the game. Furthermore, I'm still a bit worried about the lack of resistance on his wagon, that's a big thing that strikes me as off about a lynch on

Ircher

. There's not a lot of derailment on the suspicion towards him.

Also, is his lynch partially policy because of the townbloc formulated?

Mathdino

, can you refer me to your posts on the townbloc and the conclusions over that? I think I've missed some of those posts. :/

Ircher

1)

851

Oh really? Then why are you not pushing those scumreads. (I mean, if you are talking about me, you have said you scumread me all, but you aren't really pushing your scumread of me in a way that is leading anywhere.) The Janitor wagon has existed all game, and it has basically gone... nowhere. And I don't see you pushing any other scumreads.

I don't buy this that much. You haven't pushed your scumreads much as well. Could you provide your reads beyond the

Lalendra

's posts? Also, what are your thoughts on

Janitor

's wagon?

In the same breath, I don't know why you'd resign to your lynch. :/ Some of your actions are inconsistent with your thoughts.

2)

I haven't seen anybody explain their meta reads on

Lovebird

in depth, so I don't know why people assume they're town without trying to gauge for their reasons. They haven't really scumhunted much at all because their posts revolve around vaguely stating something is either scummy or towny.

With the content in this game thus far, I feel like people overlook this, and I want you to elaborate on your read here before any hammer occurs.

That was L-2, and it was an obvious parody of one of Ausuka's earlier posts.

...So the purpose of your self-vote was...?

[Taly]

Was that hammer?

Fuck.

[Taly]

Wtf?

[Taly]

Ircher's

at L-3 from what I've checked.

[Taly]

TW

I'M HERE D: TALK WITH ME? <3

*places you on my head*

[Taly]

What did you think about reactions, then,

Ircher

?

oh my bad it's 8 to lynch not 7 to lynch

i'm autohammering if someone L-1s him

I mentioned the townbloc idea you created, can you explain it to me and your reads in conjunction with it? Or point me to the post? I keep scrolling through the first 20 pages but I don't see it?

Dont have a lot of time to process your last couple of posts rn

Where are you at with Lalen/Ico/Math?

Math's

still one of my strongest townreads and nothing's changed that.

Iconeum

is close to null at this point; I want

Lalendra

to reply to me more before I reassess her.

Though, I will reevaluate

Iconeum, Lalendra, and Lovebird

through ISOs soon. I may even extend that to the playerlist, but my moderate and up townreads have stayed strong and haven't changed in confidence much.

What about you with

Lalendra

? You were pushing for their lynch a bit, what made you reconsider

Ircher

?

[Taly]

LOL, I instinctively hate self-votes because submitting to your lynch, unless it is role madness game and shit's gone crazy, is arguably going against your alignment.

I know a lot of people don't see it that strictly, but self-votes are rarely helpful aside from WIFOM in my eyes and I don't get the trend that people do it often.

TW

Iconeum

went from stating

Lalendra

is potential scum to wanting to sort

Lovebird

out. I don't see their thought process and it goes in hand with me questioning their stances in this game. Off face value, I think it is good to want to reevaluate, but I'm going to dig deeper into it.

A lot of what I'm getting from

Math's

stance is that there's better opportunities to pursue than focusing on

Lalendra

. This adds a bit to why I don't get the derailment on the

Lalendra

wagon, further provided they haven't responded much to it.

I want to hear why

Ircher

is a more worthy lynch than

Lalendra

, he's been more active and provided a lot of content.

((Refer to my questions toward him))

TALY I will say that I am somewhat CONFUSED about what you're referring to BUT it might just be me being SLEEPY (- o – ) zzZ

The questions you POSE below this do not really help me see WHAT you disagree with (ʃ⌣́,⌣́ƪ)

I'm meaning I don't get what

Ircher's

stance on the

Janitor

wagon was, and that they didn't really lead up with much substance to the wagon there, if he thought that it dissipated quickly.

Okay, the Lalendra and Lovebird wagons need to consolidate into one wagon... I don't care if it is Lalendra or Lovebird that much, but I think I prefer the Lalendra wagon better tbh.

Reasons?

[Taly]

We have The Janitor wagon which has basically been here the entire game, and I don't think anyone has even once tried to derail the wagon directly. That kinda makes me uncomfortable about the wagon. I'm fine with Iconeum on the wagon but not so sure about Beefster.

This is interesting because this is pretty much MY view of BOTH you and

Janitor's

wagons, and this is one of my solid reasons of townreading you both.

I haven't seen you try to combat your wagon that much, do you find validity in the reasons against you? And even so, where's your focus at the moment? There's not a lot of responses from you to the

Janitor

or the wagon on him from what I'm reading.

In 346, 430 and 431, and all the way up to this post, you were scumreading him and off little reason compared to the rest of this ISO.

Could you explain your read progression here, and where you're at with

Janitor

now?

Then, we have the Lalendra wagon. At least two players that I more or less townread are on it... But I'm not sure if it will get anywhere. Like, I agree that Lalendra hasn't done much, but what is this wagon accomplishing?

Okay, now I find the Ausuka wagon a bit weird. Like, both Lovebird and brassherald haven't been in the game thread that much, and they seem quite comfortable on a wagon that hasn't and probably isn't going to go anywhere. Lovebird has been on it since 280, when a lot of people were on The Janitor's wagon. Brassherald joined by 418 (which is admittedly a wide gap, but I do think that is around the time Brass started posting). They haven't moved off it since, and I don't think they have done a huge job of articulating exactly why they are on it to begin with.

It is also puzzling why Almost50 switched from voting themselves earlier to voteparking (perhaps the wrong word to use--too strong--but I'm using anyway) on Iconeum. I'm pretty sure around 60%-70% of the thread has expressed a strong disapproval of lynching Iconeum in general on D1, so I'm quite confident that I can say that this wagon is going nowhere. I'll have to go back, find, and reread the post where A50 switches vote though to see why they joined.

Finally, we have Lalendra and The Janitor not voting. Did lalendra ever express any kind of weekend V/LA (I mean, I would ask the same of brassherald, but they are at least voting) because there lack of presence is quite noticable. I feel they ought to have some kind of opinion by this point in the game. I know The Janitor has reads, and they have been working at catch up... But again, why are you not voting at the present time? I feel like I ought to give The Janitor the benefit of the doubt though--maybe they have been spending so much time catching up that they have not been able to spend some time to really consolidate their reads.

Where's your thinking with

Ausuka and Lovebird

right now? They haven't been present in the past few pages, yet I really like

Ausuka

going into depth about her thought process and I'm considering the

Lovebird

wagon at the moment because I feel like they've been lacking behind their insights and they're motives have been unclear despite the many pages of content so far in this game.

Janitor's

definitely posted more than

Lalendra

from what I've read; how do you feel about

Lalendra's

wagon progression and how it's been going up and down in favor?

[Taly]

I think ircher is probs town
Discuss???

VOTE: lalendra

Yeah, that's how I've felt on

Ircher

for the majority of the dayphase so far.

What made you change to thinking he was town, though?

TW what exactly is your trajectory going to be if/when lalendra flips town

I don't understand your read on

Lalendra

, you keep stating that she's someone to sort and that you wouldn't be highly opposed to a lynch there, but you're also not pushing her or giving a concrete implication that you scumread her.

Since we're mutually townreading each other, there needs to be more effort placed in us getting in sync versus consistently scumreading each other's townreads.

VOTE: Janitor

gonna do this tomorrow sry

Still waiting for the reasons behind this.

Caught up, don't know how much I'll remember tomorrow after the cold meds wear off.
I have not had enough time to devote to actual reads other than the gut towns.
I'll place my vote where it seems to be useful for generating material to read from.
VOTE: The Janitor

Is this all? Is the vote based on a read, or solely trying to acquire information? Because there's tons in this thread already.

I want to know what reads you gained in your catch-up besides the townread on me.

((Note: Also, I'm curious about the townreads on me, I feel like a lot of people have either stated a townread or haven't even tried to sort out their 'NULL' read on me, and I'm hoping that's not an excuse to ignore my questions and answers, because that's happened...))

tr lovebird and brass slot so.....bye ausuka

explain lovebird tr please

Withdrawn as fuck
Why are you asking this about a post 600 posts ago bro

This is partially why I have a scumread on them; there's plenty of stances in this game that have already been made, what's towny about not pushing for their own?

I'll certainly vote Lalen with you!

VOTE: Lalendra

And to Icon, it's mostly A50's contributions that make me town read that slot. Although I do know dave has a tendency to be a bit lynchbaity.

What in Lalendra ISO is scum for you? Or do you have other reasons to sheep the worst here (though it's not really sheeping because the worst is on Ircher not Lalendra)?

Interesting that A50 was your townread of the 2.

Lalendra is mostly a lack of anything townish. I don't like the snarky attitude that just doesn't seem to be trying to help town here.

But I am also partly sheeping the worst here, he is my strongest town read.

What do you think about the multiple other people that have jumped on the wagon?

My last final exam is today I'll probably get to those first round of ISO-groups tonight.

((Lovebird, Lalendra, Iconeum are first up))

I'll respond to you in depth in that post

Lalendra

I want to hear why Ircher is a more worthy lynch than Lalendra, he's been more active and provided a lot of content.

Tbh I town lean Ircher atp. I so so badly want to lynch him on principle but unfortunately I'm too competitive for that

List your reasons, put up bullet points, comment on quoted posts, link posts explaining your reasons for a lynch, that's literally what I've been asking for awhile so far.

~~~

I'm working to engage with people more but I feel like I've been told:

"your answer is somewhere in these 50 pages. good luck."

and I feel unconvinced when I read through the thread, because it's

NOT

someone talking their read out with me.

I'm not trying to lecture the thread or single

ANYONE

out; but that's how I feel my interactions have been in this game to some point.

SIMYK

obliged, and I think she brought up points that are noteworthy, and so I want

Ircher

to respond to my prompts toward him.

[Taly]

[Taly]

Finally got to doing the first ISO group.

EVERYTHING in this post in meant to be read by EVERYONE.

I'm spoiling each individual ISO/response/question for organization, clarity, and easy-to-digest purposes.

Spoiler: Iconeum ISO + Q's

I took 1 because I:

1) wanted to deny scum a free first pick
2) would not be unhappy being VT
3) if i got the pick, i put scum in a bad situation because I either end up as lynchbait or am completely wrong in my reads so they want to leave me alive to endgame. having the first pick at least makes them considering killing me early just because of the (potentially strong) power.

Math is arguing he wanted VT, but the downside is that he actually makes it easier for scum to get powers.

I don't know how to feel about stating this because this gives information to scum, however, I do like the counterargument here.

There is a benefit to town getting PRs in hopes to weaken the scumteam. In retrospect,

Iconeum

pointing this out tells me that he's actively thinking about different angles of a situation and is not being a 'yesman' in-game.

Saske is my strongest townread for now.
I also agree with Math that I was scumreading A50 until that big post.

Beefs opening was also town for him.

I like this; quickly assessing reads based off the few pages he's gathered information off of.

VOTE: janitor

So now ur fencing on both Math and Saske

Didn't agree with this assessment on

Janitor

, or his reasons in 178.

Iconeum

, how do you feel about

Janitor

right now?

@janitor, all your effort went into reacting to NAI-posts (according to yourself). Why did you feel the need to interact with them?

Did

Janitor's

response to this help you formulate your read on him and the wagon?

A50: i don't townread the slot because his frustrations look and feel similar like a previous game where he flipped scum. But I don't like to play meta, and it's still early.
Lalendra: except for low content I don't see this slot as scum here.

Why is Janitor not being talked about more?

@the worst, I don't even know the word syntax. Do I look like I care about grammar?

Voicing unpopular opinions and genuinely pushing a question to the playerlist is something I sympathize with, and think comes from town often.

Ok, let's pretend we are not lynching Janitor and Lalendra.
Who's next?

I'd like to sort A50/Dave because one was scum and the other isn't :p

This looks iffy; why pretend to look at another lynch if you feel strongly about the current one?

Ausuka ISO:

362 calling ircher scum, stating intent to dig into it
419 voting ircher based on meta
433 is literally next post, unvotes for no reason. It's not like the meta changed in these few hours, right?

Over the next few posts ircher turns into a townread because of effort...

571 weak sheep
589 naked vote on Lovebird because?

This seems to come a little out of nowhere, but I kind of want to see where

Iconeum

leads with this, and if his read still remains the same on

Ausuka

as it did here.

VOTE: Iconeum

@Lovebird can you please explain what on earth is going through your head when you decide to randomly naked vote the #1 in the draft list without any real discussion surrounding the potential of them being scum?

I said my reasons for iconeum being scum. Nobody else is voting ausuka, so I decided to switch things up.

The reasons for me being scummy as in:

VOTE: A50 for being salty I got the nr1 spot with nr1.

Scummy

My opening RVS vote?

It really makes me feel like you wanna appear active while not having to take a stance, and I scumread you for it.
My vote isn't RVS.

Awkward

Or this?

Why would we vig me?

'Cause ur scum Also, ur playing like you did in the 9p alternating. I correctly read you as scum that game but failed to get you lynched. I'm getting the same scummy vibes right now (with the recent posts).

VOTE: Lovebird

Is this vote/read based mostly on meta? What about in-game-specific reasons? And if there is a meta point to your read, what about it reflects

Lovebird's

gameplay now?

tr lovebird and brass slot so.....bye ausuka

explain lovebird tr please

Strikes me as towny; there NEEDS to be more explanation and communication with differing opinions in this game, and I like that

Iconeum

is both engaging, working to solve the game, and get on the same page with another player.

@Taly, I don't see a problem in calling the low content posting from Lalendra as potential scummy? It's a weak impression, and I don't really like the harder scumreads on Lalendra.
I began pushing Lovebird when the vibes started vibing. It's a much better scumread then Lalendra.

Fair point; how do you feel about

the worst

and his push on

Lalendra

?

Spoiler: Lalendra ISO + Q's

222 to 224 does not seem really interesting much at all, I like the question for why we should lynch vengeful; but I'm pretty sure vengeful would be better served as a scum utility than a town who could use a vig.

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

Since you agree with

Mutant

((this question can also go to him))

on

Ircher's

earliest posts pinged you, what about it bothered you?

Also, what's odd about placing emphasis on other people's reads?

I can read Ircher well and I think this is his scumgame. The way I read Ircher is simple; he has an unique personality as town, which he doesn't really emulate as scum; additionally, as town he is generally a good player who makes sense and has good reads but can do odd things; as scum, he is often quite nickpicky and flat. I think this game shows the latter. (Although now that I've said this I probably can't use it in future games with him... oh well)

VOTE: Ircher

This is really helpful and definitely reinforces my Ircher scumlean.

Holy shit <post>429</post> sucks to read.

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

I like the independent assessment here and I'm getting a better idea of

Lalendra's

viewpoint, she's asserting some of her own thinking beyond her agreeing with

Mutant

and

Math

.

I'm sorry, can you mindread people and why they'd pick numbers they did for the draft?

There is a comically large difference between "the numbers are randomized" and "the numbers were carefully chosen by individual players in accordance with logic I'm just not privy to."

I just don't think it makes a lot of sense; anybody regardless of alignment could actively work toward getting a PR because it benefits their alignment.

I get that repeated numbers are probably not going to come from scum, but I don't see the draft being a strong way to discern someone's alignment without solid flip information.

to my great disappointment, i just came up for air from the metadive and i think taly might have to be town

FWIW, when I played with Taly before and they posted walls that irritated me on-sight, they were town.

Elabroate on that? rhsfjeakjnsjfeasersjfkawnd

Not Voting: The only one not voting that I'm actually townreading is Taly. Lalendra's ISO goes so far beyond "lynchbaity Lalendra" into the realm of "I am actively not doing anything this game".

This is a busy month for me, plus I had rehearsals Friday night and all day Saturday. I'm gonna try to make up for it now though \o/

Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.

Do you feel there's an associative between

Ircher

and

Ausuka

?

And yeah, the self-meta in my sig is something that would help me as scum. But since I never roll scum (which sucks because I love it) it's mostly just there to say "anything you're thinking about me based on my tone, interactions, reads, or anything else is less likely because I'm scum and more likely because you don't like my playstyle."

I sympathize with this, but that's not the full reason behind my push on you.

A lot of your posting and responses don't feel very strong in one direction or another; you agree with other people's stances in regards to Ircher, and while you do state your reasons for your read there, and your reads, a lot of your posts seem like fluff.

1274 and 1275 are examples, above the other posts I've already linked about in this ISO dig.

And yes, there is a good reason to separate them: a null read indicates generally no read or a very conflicted read; a neutral read is a mixed read, but it is not a conflicted read; there is generally a clear leaning toward town or scum in a neutral read, just not a very confident one.

Ok, that seems to be the issue here then. You say "neutral" when I would say "town/scum lean." This makes more sense now.

OK yeah, this cleared up some things for me as well when reading

Ircher's

explanation here.

Does that change your thinking on him?

Current readslist, since multiple people have asked:

Town:
Mathdino - His play is a little different than what I am used to here, but I think it's largely due to him not being super confident on who's scum. Usually he picks someone and runs them over like a truck, and while he's not doing that here, it still strikes me as town!Math.
Mutantdevle - Feeling pretty confident in town!Mutant here, largely because I agree with his reasoning and like the way he is presenting his thoughts. Seems like he's actively trying to gamesolve.
Simyk - I don't have any meta experience with Simyk, but they seem invested in gamesolving, are trying to advance the gamestate, and their tone is very towny.

Townlean:
davesaz - I wasn't sure how I felt about A50 but davesaz has moved this slot from null to townlean for me. Not as confident as I am with the townbloc above, but good vibes.
Eddie Cane - Again, not confident enough to say town for certain, but good vibes.
Myloninja13 - There really hasn't been enough from this slot to say for certain, but I'm feeling town.
Iconeum - I like what I've seen from them but need to see more active participation.
Taly - This seems like town!Taly from my meta experience.

Null:
the worst - Honestly not sure about this slot, I want to say town but feel like I can't make an unbiased opinion. Their tunneling of me could be town-motivated but I'm not crazy about the reasoning behind it; then again, I could just be mad they're tunneling me. I can't be impartial enough to figure it out yet.
The Janitor - I don't hate their posting but I'm having trouble determining whether it's a playstyle thing or actual scumminess.
Lovebird - I can't make sense of this slot either way.

Scumlean:
Ausuka - Nothing I've seen from Ausuka has struck me as particularly towny, especially the waffling/soft defense of Ircher and the defensiveness in their tone.

Scum:
Ircher - For the reasons I outlined in my last few posts.

Ehhh... just like a lot of people, there's not a lot of scumreads at the moment.

It is good that you made the readslist, it's helping progress the gamestate as I feel like it's slowing down a bit.

Spoiler: Lovebird ISO + Q's

I think everyone so far is town

Has your townreads really changed from this point?

VOTE: A50 for being salty I got the nr1 spot with nr1.

Scummy

...Stating an opening post as scummy with no reason...

I think everyone so far is town

I hope ur town so I don't have to try and get you lynched again (and fail miserably)

I'm town

Stating that you're town does not help anything in discerning your alignment.

hi, i'm town
VOTE: Beefster

hi, i'm town
VOTE: Beefster

AUSUKA-CHAN!!!!!!! ヾ(｡･ω･)ｼ

It has been a while since I last espied thou!

HOWEVER with that vote you arent realy convincing me of that (⊙△⊙✿)

hi!

the vote on beefster is because he's openly giving up his role for basically no reason while accusing math of rolefishing. doesn't seem like a real thought to me. "Hey, this person voted me based on draft analysis. They must be scum rolefishing me! Also, I'll claim, because that makes a lot of sense as a thing to do in this scenario."

On an unrelated note, I ?think? I know who janitor is.

the vote on beefster is because he's openly giving up his role for basically no reason while accusing math of rolefishing. doesn't seem like a real thought to me. "Hey, this person voted me based on draft analysis. They must be scum rolefishing me! Also, I'll claim, because that makes a lot of sense as a thing to do in this scenario."

I mean I DO agree that the thought process DOESN'T make sense BUT scum would also be aware of this and probably NOT think like this Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)

Like it relay... doesn't make sense to claim because a townie is ROLEFIHSING you...

Yeah, it doesn't make sense it makes even less sense to claim, on page 1, because a scumread is rolefishing you.

I think generally if someone does something that doesn't make sense if they're town, they're scum. I do often see scum taking refuge in audacity, doing things that make no sense so people are like "why do that as scum?"

Ausuka is scum

VOTE: Ausuka

This is what I'm talking about when you're creating dichotomies and not really engaging with your thoughts.

You keep throwing blanket statements on people over your reads without actually pushing them, and conversely, I think

Ausuka

makes a valid statement here to clarify her viewpoint.

It really makes me feel like you wanna appear active while not having to take a stance, and I scumread you for it.
My vote isn't RVS.

Awkward

So... you call an opening vote scummy, and then say the reason behind it is awkward when it was pledged to be a serious vote...

This looks to me like you're trying to place WIFOM or suspicion on

Iconeum

without really creating or backing up a certain stance. If you explained half of your assessments that would make it much easier to read you.

Lovebird, you stated that the people on page 1 are town, can you provide some reasoning, and has that changed for you?

They were towny. Idk, will go back and look.

I've yet to see you go back and look, unless there's a post I completely overlooked.

Ok, ausuka is scum. Maybe ico too. Think janitor is town

Why is

Janitor

town to you? I agree with this opinion but you're not responding to the wagon onto him. Furthermore, you keep stating other people who are working to gamesolve as scum without justifying your view and working to understand others.

I think generally if someone does something that doesn't make sense if they're town, they're scum. I do often see scum taking refuge in audacity, doing things that make no sense so people are like "why do that as scum?"

LOVEBIRD can you TALK TO ME about WHY this sort of reasoning is MORE likely to come from scum? Σ(-᷅_-᷄๑)

When I first read it I liked the NUANCE of the angle but after some sleep it doesnt ping me as town BUT I don't really scumread it? 「(°ヘ°)

Also where do YOU think Math-sensei's townread of you is coming from? (ﾉ^ヮ^)ﾉ*:・ﾟ✧

Just, scummy way of talking. Nervousness, skittish.

Idk, I tricked math as scum before. Fine with him townreading me, though

Yeah, I don't see how you came to that conclusion when you saw

Ausuka

explaining herself... What does "scummy way of talking" mean? If you're referring to syntax then there's no way that is AI.

And why are you bringing up a game with

Math

here, and then just saying you're fine with the townread? Why not question his reasoning if you haven't really engaged with him?

Ausuka making the one big post where she goes from scumreading ircher to townreading him is weird. If you read through and change your mind before post is finished, why do you include first parts in the first place.

I can see someone providing their thought process to make others understand their stance more. Where's the scum-motivation in waffling there?

Okay I have 30 spare minutes let's gooooo

VOTE: Ircher

why do you find it unnecessary to not address any of his concerns and naked vote inistead?

how do you read me (besides adorable)?

Is there really any other way to, honestly?

Vengeful has been in 7 PYP X/Y games. Of those, 57% (4) have been town.

Ya, I figured picking Vengeful is not really typical for either faction but would you agree about scum profiting more from it from the vig option and/or a vig being more likely town?

@janitor; If you believe Simyk has been posting lots of non-fluffy content, why doesn't that make her town to you?

I'm townleaning there after catching up.

425 to 428 seems mostly fluff to me when there's enough to discussion I reckon

In the future shall we see what you had PLEDGED to PROVIDE (O_O ;;) ?

What exactly?

Okay and I'm out again! Sorry for being shit at planning.

I think this is towny

Hi, I think he's town too.

But he's being suspected by a good portion of the playerlist.

Why not elaborate on your thoughts there?

Good, it wasn't a gambit.

Town

Sigh...

because she's scum who was manipulating the meta from mafia month and is apparently scumreading me for not editing my posts.

Lol. Manipulating meta? Explain?

Isn't your scumread on

Ausuka

based around meta?

Because otherwise, I don't know how else you've come to the conclusion that they're scum.

Mathdino

mutantdevle

SaskeIsMyYaoiKismesis

Ausuka
the worst

Almost50

brassherald
Lalendra

Beefster

The Janitor

Lovebird

Iconeum
Taly

Ircher

I had reason for janitor town, can't remember rn.

... Are you purposely trying not to engage with the playerlist here? There's plenty of content to look through and discuss.

This isn't how you played before.

Why is Ausuka scum? And Ico? And you townread a scummy slot. Hng. Fos Lovebird.

Played before when?

Boon game.

Oh yeah. Idk what difference you see. My games are too much reading now, though.

Are you saying you can't keep up here? If you are, then you could ask questions and start from there...

Scum
Lovebird - Slight Scumread - Literally posts "this is town" and "this is scum" without giving reasons and then disappears. Unhelpful, and I question how genuine their reads are.

Lol.

Pretty tired of being written off when I speak out in this game.

Your posts serve to generate a dichotomy or a discredit because you've also kept your vote on Ausuka since 273 without going into depth on why she's scum to you. I'd like you to elaborate on your thoughts in full.

What?

...It's a straight forward question, what are the explanations behind your reads, and specifically what do you find to be scum-motivated in

Ausuka

?

VOTE: Iconeum

Yay! Another vote that does not serve to congeal with town, OR push for content or perception within the game while trying to understand.

Not explainging things isn't my scum style. Everyone just always townreads big walls and explanations anyways.

Disagree here, but saying you don't explain things as scum doesn't make you town automatically... That just sounds like an excuse for you to NOT explain your thoughts.

@Lovebird can you please explain what on earth is going through your head when you decide to randomly naked vote the #1 in the draft list without any real discussion surrounding the potential of them being scum?

I said my reasons for iconeum being scum. Nobody else is voting ausuka, so I decided to switch things up.

It's been about 900 posts, and your reads haven't really changed, and you haven't explained any of them.

You're also switching your votes based on what catches traction, but not what you genuinely want to push out of your own opinions.

Idk.

VOTE: Taly

"Don't know, gonna throw the vote on the person who's given reasons for scumreading me"

~~~

Conclusions

Iconeum:

I feel like my biggest thing with

Iconeum

is that we're not in sync and we haven't shared many of the same opinions in this game. I don't think that's AI, and I also like some points and questions he's asked up to this point. I don't feel very strongly placing him as town, but I definitely don't understand the desire to push or lynch him. He's taking angles at situations different from others and that's always something I feel comes from town based on how genuine it is on a grander scope.

Lalendra:

A lot of their posting doesn't really serve to sway people in any particular direction, but they have made their opinions known. I think a continued wagon/push here would be unproductive and unhelpful seeing as how there's not a lot of feedback for or against this wagon. My scumread here is much more fragile in nature and in confidence now.

Lovebird:

Actively working to NOT get in sync with other people's reads. The fact that they don't defend their townreads or push their scumreads feels disingenuous. Their response to the overall gamestate is apathetic and I don't see how their mentality is coming from a town POV. They only really contribute when other people are being discussed as a major topic, and it doesn't make sense how there's been very little engagement directed to her.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lovebird

1)

I generally have some form of townlean/townread on the people that have been on their wagon to my knowledge.

{Ausuka, Iconeum, Eddie, SIMYK}

2)

Lovebird

has become my most confident scumread so far, and I see valid reasons to push them as opposed to the other major wagons of the day.

{Ircher, Janitor, Lalendra}

3)

We're getting very close to the deadline, and a lot of people are in some form of agreement with this wagon and/or potential lynch.

[Taly]

This is only a vague list of my more solid townreads and scumreads.

Everything

NOT

in here is either some form of conflicted, null, or read I'm working to sort.

Town - Top To Bottom In Confidence

Mathdino
SIMYK
Ausuka
Ircher
Eddie
Janitor
TW (Still Relatively Confident Even At Bottom)

Scum - Bottom To Top In Confidence

Lalendra (Most Fragile)
Lovebird

[Taly]

How am I supposed to respond to 1302? Getting talked to death.

None of things you describe are scummy.

I don't think it's that difficult, just look for areas where I posted a question mark or sounded uncertain and answer.

And I do believe the reasons for my assessment are AI, you're around when it's to divert some form of attention off of you. You don't defend what you think could be town, or even give reasons for such, and you don't really push your scumreads aside from saying a post is scum and throwing a vote down because... you most likely think the person you're voting is scum, but you don't give reasoning to build a case?

In general, there's very little motivation to gamesolve on your end from what I've seen, and I think you're scum because of it in conjunction of the other reasons I've stated in this post, and in 1302.

Yeah, I don't see how you came to that conclusion when you saw Ausuka explaining herself... What does "scummy way of talking" mean? If you're referring to syntax then there's no way that is AI.

Totally wrong

Some people are just awkward as scum. Can't deal with being informed. Idk how you could even disagree with that.

I disagree with your assessment because I've played multiple games with

Ausuka

and there's nothing about her that strikes me as awkward in this game, or what's in the scope of her town-game.

I don't know why it's hard to believe that I disagree with you when you don't explain how something is awkward, or the reasons behind your reads.

Are you going to address my other points onto you or are you going to respond to 1 thing I've stated and not the questions I've asked?

[Taly]

And I do believe the reasons for my assessment are AI, you're around when it's to divert some form of attention off of you. You don't defend what you think could be town, or even give reasons for such, and you don't really push your scumreads aside from saying a post is scum and throwing a vote down because... you most likely think the person you're voting is scum, but you don't give reasoning to build a case?

Why do you expect everyone to play same way you do as town?

Yeah, because I'm totally scumreading you and everyone else that does not post or gamesolve like I do, and especially the several people that seem to have an issue with it.

You do not back up your reads; your gameplay is apathetic, and your responses seem like you're minimizing my reasons against you by saying

"why do you expect so much from me" - "there's no reason to scumread or lynch me"

I disagree with your assessment because I've played multiple games with Ausuka and there's nothing about her that strikes me as awkward in this game, or what's in the scope of her town-game.

I don't know why it's hard to believe that I disagree with you when you don't explain how something is awkward, or the reasons behind your reads.

Not taking about ausuka specifically, just in general. You said syntax can't be scummy.

Are you going to address my other points onto you or are you going to respond to 1 thing I've stated and not the questions I've asked?

Maybe I will.

...So I completely don't understand your

Ausuka

scumread or why you're deflecting and defensively ignoring any point or question I respond to you with.

So... you call an opening vote scummy, and then say the reason behind it is awkward when it was pledged to be a serious vote...

This looks to me like you're trying to place WIFOM or suspicion on Iconeum without really creating or backing up a certain stance. If you explained half of your assessments that would make it much easier to read you.

I called the wording awkward, not the reason.

Is that really hard to clarify?

How could I not be taking a stance when I say "scummy"

Well, considering the wording is awkward to you, you're not providing a read there. Unless you think syntax is scummy?

Isn't your scumread on Ausuka based around meta?

What does this have to do with what you quoted?

...Me trying to make sense with your reads and completely failing at finding the consistency and town-motivation behind them?

EVERYTHING in this post in meant to be read by EVERYONE.

wow. its almost like we are playing a group game.

-

I read half-most of the post. Honestly Taly, I would recommend you go back into your games and check how accurate your reads are because to me it looks like you're the type of super logical player that will never be anything above meh because every one of your 50 microanalyses is surface level. I'm VI reading you tbqh. Your scumreads aren't awful, but I don't really care for your stuff in general.

I'm not sitting here and saying

"Sheep

Taly

, no questions! He's got the gamesolved!"

I'm usually not confident in general D1, and my reads are a coinflip with accuracy.

But I

AM

confident in my

Lovebird

scumread, and out of all the wagons so far I feel like this lynch will most likely flip scum. This is my most townread wagon, and there is a valid case for

Lovebird

-scum.

How about you explain your thoughts and analysis instead of shading mine? Again, I don't know why I'm treated like a dumbass in this thread.

please don't put me in a position to have to hard-defend lovebird and lalendra of all slots though

Hi

Mathdino

, I exist.

I don't understand your reads on

Lovebird

and

Lalendra

when you bring them up in being potential scum by PoE, but you put them in a

"sort-out/null"

read area and would want to defend them.

Could you explain your

Janitor

scumread, and why

Ausuka

is more likely scum than

Lovebird

to you?

@Taly

As I mentioned previously, Janitor has picked up his pace and I townread him more now. He still has his bad early game, but for now I don't want to push this. I am interested in Math's reasoning for wanting the janitor lynch though.

I wanted to 'pretend' to look at other lynches because the worst and me were out of sync. I was trying to see if we had common ground somewhere.

On Ausuka, I called out what I did not like. Hesitant to push because Ausuka is sharing my scumread on Lovebird and the worst's read on Lalendra.

My lovebird scumread is based on the fact that Lovebird is using EXTREMELY weak reasons to scumread myself (so a bit OMGUS, sure), and refusing to talk/reconsider when called out on it. If you read ISO of Lovebird, it's really bad too. No effort in building town circle, no effort in pushing own cases. Just bad.

BUT, as I just wrote previously, it could just be a troll playing town-dickhead.

The worst can be town. I sometimes tunnel like that myself as town, but i've not seen the worst do it (as any allignment). This is why I've put so much effort in trying to get him sorted.

I share some of your reads for

Lovebird

scum, but why is

Lovebird's

scumread to you OMGUS? ...Egh, that buzzword doesn't help pcerception.

The biggest thing I've seen so far for

Ausuka-scum

is the associative with

Ircher

revolving around her reads/waffling directed to him, but no specific interaction with him in relation to her... so I don't find it to be a very strong associative case.

Is there anything beyond that that makes you hesitant about her?

VOTE: lalendra

...What? ._.

Spoiler: Lalendra ISO + Q's

222 to 224 does not seem really interesting much at all, I like the question for why we should lynch vengeful; but I'm pretty sure vengeful would be better served as a scum utility than a town who could use a vig.

That’s super irrelevant; when did you think I thought MathDino was MathBlade?

VOTE: Ircher

You've been tingling my scum sensors ever since your second post but I decided not to vote you because I wanted to see where the janitor wagon would go.

This post bothers me because it reacts to brass' comment as though it was supposed to be game solving. Furthermore, the question here is phrased in a way that tries to appear like its game solving itself. Honestly, this just feels like scum trying to look busy.

Add that to how Ircher seems intent on shutting down any form of setup spec and seems to focus too much on other people's reads (in my opinion) and judge them based on that. That makes me comfortable with this vote.

I am inclined to agree with everything Mutant says here but holding off on voting til I finish catching up.

Since you agree with

Mutant

((this question can also go to him))

on

Ircher's

earliest posts pinged you, what about it bothered you?

Also, what's odd about placing emphasis on other people's reads?

I can read Ircher well and I think this is his scumgame. The way I read Ircher is simple; he has an unique personality as town, which he doesn't really emulate as scum; additionally, as town he is generally a good player who makes sense and has good reads but can do odd things; as scum, he is often quite nickpicky and flat. I think this game shows the latter. (Although now that I've said this I probably can't use it in future games with him... oh well)

VOTE: Ircher

This is really helpful and definitely reinforces my Ircher scumlean.

Holy shit <post>429</post> sucks to read.

...You literally posted an entire wall (much of which was "fair enough, null") and then two posts later everyone is either null or neutral (not sure I understand the need to separate those) except you (shocking) and one person whose "posts continue to not really be good". That's it?

I like the independent assessment here and I'm getting a better idea of

Lalendra's

viewpoint, she's asserting some of her own thinking beyond her agreeing with

Mutant

and

Math

.

I'm sorry, can you mindread people and why they'd pick numbers they did for the draft?

There is a comically large difference between "the numbers are randomized" and "the numbers were carefully chosen by individual players in accordance with logic I'm just not privy to."

I just don't think it makes a lot of sense; anybody regardless of alignment could actively work toward getting a PR because it benefits their alignment.

I get that repeated numbers are probably not going to come from scum, but I don't see the draft being a strong way to discern someone's alignment without solid flip information.

to my great disappointment, i just came up for air from the metadive and i think taly might have to be town

FWIW, when I played with Taly before and they posted walls that irritated me on-sight, they were town.

Elabroate on that? rhsfjeakjnsjfeasersjfkawnd

Not Voting: The only one not voting that I'm actually townreading is Taly. Lalendra's ISO goes so far beyond "lynchbaity Lalendra" into the realm of "I am actively not doing anything this game".

This is a busy month for me, plus I had rehearsals Friday night and all day Saturday. I'm gonna try to make up for it now though \o/

Ausuka's <post>568</post> is super waffly in terms of a read on Ircher. I've never seen someone flip-flop that much on one person in one post.

Do you feel there's an associative between

Ircher

and

Ausuka

?

And yeah, the self-meta in my sig is something that would help me as scum. But since I never roll scum (which sucks because I love it) it's mostly just there to say "anything you're thinking about me based on my tone, interactions, reads, or anything else is less likely because I'm scum and more likely because you don't like my playstyle."

I sympathize with this, but that's not the full reason behind my push on you.

A lot of your posting and responses don't feel very strong in one direction or another; you agree with other people's stances in regards to Ircher, and while you do state your reasons for your read there, and your reads, a lot of your posts seem like fluff.

1274 and 1275 are examples, above the other posts I've already linked about in this ISO dig.

And yes, there is a good reason to separate them: a null read indicates generally no read or a very conflicted read; a neutral read is a mixed read, but it is not a conflicted read; there is generally a clear leaning toward town or scum in a neutral read, just not a very confident one.

Ok, that seems to be the issue here then. You say "neutral" when I would say "town/scum lean." This makes more sense now.

OK yeah, this cleared up some things for me as well when reading

Ircher's

explanation here.

Does that change your thinking on him?

Current readslist, since multiple people have asked:

Town:
Mathdino - His play is a little different than what I am used to here, but I think it's largely due to him not being super confident on who's scum. Usually he picks someone and runs them over like a truck, and while he's not doing that here, it still strikes me as town!Math.
Mutantdevle - Feeling pretty confident in town!Mutant here, largely because I agree with his reasoning and like the way he is presenting his thoughts. Seems like he's actively trying to gamesolve.
Simyk - I don't have any meta experience with Simyk, but they seem invested in gamesolving, are trying to advance the gamestate, and their tone is very towny.

Townlean:
davesaz - I wasn't sure how I felt about A50 but davesaz has moved this slot from null to townlean for me. Not as confident as I am with the townbloc above, but good vibes.
Eddie Cane - Again, not confident enough to say town for certain, but good vibes.
Myloninja13 - There really hasn't been enough from this slot to say for certain, but I'm feeling town.
Iconeum - I like what I've seen from them but need to see more active participation.
Taly - This seems like town!Taly from my meta experience.

Null:
the worst - Honestly not sure about this slot, I want to say town but feel like I can't make an unbiased opinion. Their tunneling of me could be town-motivated but I'm not crazy about the reasoning behind it; then again, I could just be mad they're tunneling me. I can't be impartial enough to figure it out yet.
The Janitor - I don't hate their posting but I'm having trouble determining whether it's a playstyle thing or actual scumminess.
Lovebird - I can't make sense of this slot either way.

Scumlean:
Ausuka - Nothing I've seen from Ausuka has struck me as particularly towny, especially the waffling/soft defense of Ircher and the defensiveness in their tone.

Scum:
Ircher - For the reasons I outlined in my last few posts.

Ehhh... just like a lot of people, there's not a lot of scumreads at the moment.

It is good that you made the readslist, it's helping progress the gamestate as I feel like it's slowing down a bit.

I didn't like that he was so against setup speccing. It didn't make sense, from a town perspective, to try to shut down any attempt at gamesolving. There's nothing inherently wrong with focusing on other people's reads, unless you are doing so to the exclusion of forming your own, which is what it seemed like he was doing.

I understand your point about the draft, however, it's really important to note that scum are not likely to pick duplicate numbers. You really can use the draft numbers to theorize about alignment because yes, while both alignments are trying to get power roles, scum are the only ones able to make a concerted effort not to step on one another's toes.

Re: your walls - your posts tend to be extremely lengthy and I have a hard time motivating myself to read them as a result. However, the one game I played with you before, you played the same way, so I don't think it's AI for you; it's just how you play.

Yes, I definitely see an associative between Ircher and Ausuka.

The explanation of his readslist doesn't really change my thinking, because a) I wasn't really basing my read on that to begin with and b) he still didn't have any strong reads, just nulls and leans. Not a problem in and of itself, but waffly, and not really that different from my original interpretation of a readslist that is largely useless.

Are there any more reasons behind an associative with

Ircher-Ausuka

?

Also,

Math

has stated that

Lovebird

and

Ausuka

cannot be scum together, and you're voting

Lovebird.

Do you think

Lovebird-Ircher-Ausuka

is a likely scumteam, then?

Ehhh.... I bold a lot to make reading my posts easier.

[Taly]

Yeah, the 10-posts-a-day thing is not going to work when we're 72 hours from the deadline.

[Taly]

I'm probably going to be VLA starting

Monday

- or starting sometime next week - for an entire week.

I'll still be posting, but it will be from my phone and it won't be the typical

Taly-walls

[Taly]

Well, town needs to be in sync ASAP with both the nature of this game and how quickly we are to the deadline; so it would help for you to both post links to your reasons on

Lalendra

-scum, and also compile a well-coherent case in a post.

I'm not as keen on the

Lalendra

lynch as I am with

Lovebird

, and the lack of response of my questions directed to

Lalendra

,

Iconeum

, and

Mathdino

so far have not changed my opinion.

I'm also about to go to bed. I hope I wake up and log on tomorrow to see more than 15 posts for an entire day... I'm not liking the growing sense of apathy happening. :/

[Taly]

._.

Math

, can you in depth explain

Janitor

being scum, and/or why he's the best lynch given the holistic reading and what we know about the setup? He's had little defense originally, I don't think him not-voting is AI, and I don't agree with the early-game assessments that pointed to him being scum.

I also want

Lalendra

and

Iconeum

to respond to my questions before I think more critically about my vote.

If part of your reasons for

Lovebird

-town are based on her meta, I hope you could link some games so I can see your reasoning,

Math

.

[Taly]

If half of the playerlist won't try and push for their

OWN

scumreads while everyone's scrambling to figure out a decision to make, then I'm going to do my own ISO-diving in this game... and potentially metadive as well, because somehow that's

MORE

credible than the plethora of in-game information we have?

Meta reads, while they can be accurate, are extremely subjective, very fluid, and could easily be faked. That's why I'm not very convinced of

Lovebird

-town with the stated reasons.

Holistic reading in 1583 puts the game greatly in perspective on how reads have formed and what they mean; but it's only useful when the information is used to make a forward-thinking and structured decisions from the townbloc, specifically early-game when there's no flips to go off of.

That's why communicating cases and creating meaningful interactions for later reference is the strongest approach here; but apparently, nobody's strongly invested in doing that so far.

Janitor

, where is your head at in the game? You haven't placed a vote down and while you have been engaging and forming reads, you've done next to no pushing. Thoughts on the current wagons?

[Taly]

I DIDN'T SAY THAT ANY DRAFT-BASED REASONING IS BULLSHIT, IT'S EFFECTIVE WHEN WE HAVE FLIPS FOR REFERENCE UPON CONSTRUCTIVE CASES FOR SOMEONE BEING SCUM OR TOWN.

I EVEN AGREED TO THE LIKELIHOOD THAT REPEATED NUMBERS CAN'T BE SCUM TOGETHER.

Spoiler: Actual Quotes That Back Up My Statement

2)

Math

, can you explain to me your analysis of the draft in depth? It's NAI for someone to try and get a PR because it helps the alignment of the person it's under. I mostly play games where I'm more likely to get a PR than not.

- ALL scumhunting is luck. Using calculations based on empirical evidence is no different. I show my work when appropriate.
If someone's draft number makes them 15% more likely to be scum, how is that any different from the tone of someone's post making them 15% more likely to be scum?

How do you deduce percentages of someone being scum FROM RANDOMIZED NUMBERS?

You're completely ignoring any information that someone can use to detect someone as scum or town that DOESN'T come from mathematical probabilities or subsets from numbers. Simplying scumhunting as complete luck is a DIRECT simplification of a subjective game. Right now, you're coming to me based off semantics and not off the idea of trying to UNDERSTAND something in a subjective realm where we can communicate our ideas.

This mentality does little to nothing in helping someone see your point of view in this game.

- Your Ircher townread is based off of agreeing that you don't like my shit

Stopping you right here, because you're wrong.

I never said that the setup spec was inherently wrong to do; I stated that there's no practical reason for discussing it off NO defined information.

Me Saying-

"I don't like what

Mathdino's

doing here"

and

"I don't see the point of what

Mathdino's

doing at the moment, and I agree with this other person's approach"

ARE TWO DIFFERENT THINGS.

Reread my post.

And

Janitor

not forming any reads is blatantly false because he's stated them and also participated in the holistic reading. He's also quite engaged and doesn't fall into the complex of having few scumreads like most of us. 605

-

1310

-

1614

Meta is not entirely useless, but I don't know anyone well enough to attempt a meta read and expect a strong understanding between their alignments,

Math

. That's why I'm trying to pick your brain and figure shit out.

I can't follow your reasons for

Janitor

being scum when you're saying things like:

THERE DO NOT EXIST GOOD SCUMCASES IN THIS GAME, YOU GUYS AREN'T UNDERSTANDING THAT. That's the problem. There will not exist good scumcases until we get a scumflip or a guilty.

1)

Part of your points are simply to debunk the reasons for him being town when people aren't seeing your viewpoint.

2)

You keep saying meta is useful but you keep holding off from explaining your reads based on that, whether it's town or scum... If you're too busy to do that right now then I could understand, but you're not helping others undrstand your case.

Is your

Janitor

lynch/scumread

MAINLY

based around acquiring information for the draft? If so, I don't see how picking 2 would come

EXCLUSIVELY

from scum.

And

Janitor

may not have been pushed to L-1 unlike other wagons, but he's been consistently suspected throughout the dayphase without a lot of concrete engagement as to seeing why. If you genuinely believe this is the best course of action right now, then you need to go through the thread and backup your point here.

[Taly]

Janitor

, if you scumlean both

Lalendra

and

Lovebird

, what is your points behind them being scum and who would put a vote on at the moment?

[Taly]

Janitor

, if you scumlean both

Lalendra

and

Lovebird

, what is your points behind them being scum and who would put a vote on at the moment?

It's ye olde quality vs quantity debate! Lovebird has more posts but Lalendra has like, longer posts... I think both aren't being protown, at the moment. Fact is that Lalendra's odds of being PR are like 75% while its near 0 for Bird. If we gotta lynch and possibly mislynch within these 2, would it be better to get Lovebird?

This is the biggest reason behind my vote for a

Lovebird

lynch as opposed to

Lalendra

.

Lalendra

is putting in an attempt to solve the game, whereas

Lovebird

has been largely absent and at the very least been anti-town in relation to the playerlist.

Lalendra

may also be more likely to carry a PR, and lynching anyone out of the principal of saying

"maybe we have a Universal Backup to make it alright if this flips Town!PR"

is

NOT

an even

FEASIBLE

excuse of lynching a high-placing spot D1 when a

Lovebird

flip could shed light on multiple people's alignments.

One of the

FEW

things we can deduce from the draft this early is that it's logically and virtually near-impossible to assume

{Lovebird, Ausuka, Eddie}

scumteam because of the repetition in numbers, and while this could be all town repeating here, it's less likely when you look at the frequency of this number being used.

I'm pretty confident in both my

Eddie and Ausuka

townread, but I think if we were going to use

ANY

lynch as a means for information post-D1 through flip and draft analysis, it would be

Lovebird

.

This brings me back to the original point

Math

, where does your read on

Ausuka

stem from? Based on your scumreads, do you think an

Ausuka-The Janitor-Iconeum

scumteam is valid? Or are your reads on them

INDEPENDENT

and you're trying to PoE potentially townread scum, and scumread town?

With the frequency of 1 being chosen by scum in the other games

Math, ALONGSIDE

my earlier suspicions on

Iconeum

, I can

UNDERSTAND

an

Iconeum

scum-reality, but I'll re-ISO him and get back to you before I consider switching my vote.

But just so it's clear,

ASIDE

from all the reasons I've stated for thinking

Lovebird

is scum and

Janitor

is town, this is where my heads at for a lynch.

[Taly]

I'm probably going to post later tonight or tomorrow... this way I won't resort to yelling.

~

On a happier, non-game-related note; my brother is returning from South Korea today for almost 2 weeks.

Haven't seen him since he was stationed there over 6 months ago, but it's felt much longer than that.

So in other words, this is family day for me, and my 1-week VLA will start this Friday. I'll still post, but it will not be the usual posting style.

[Taly]

frewrtgewfwrgdrtgseafwdsefawd

just woke up to post.

well :/ I feel like

Ausuka

is more likely town so meh.

I'm going to try to respond to the direct quotes toward me during Twilight...

[Taly]

Taly, what is your favourite kind of fish?

The duckfish.

[Taly]

FUCK OH MY GOD.

[Taly]

I SPENT OVER AN HOUR WRITING I POST.

I FORGOT TO SAVE IT IN NOTES.

MY COMPUTER FROZE.

ITS ALL GONE.

[Taly]

Here is a minimized draft of what I was actually going to post...

I'm unhappy about being wrong over

Lovebird

.

The numbers of

Ausuka's

flashwagon near the end of D1 strike me as town-motivated due to the consolidation, pressure for deadline, and sync with the reads. I'm going to look at individual votes later when I don't want to choke someone.

I doubt the vig being scum because otherwise the

Mylo and TW

kill would have no voting or wagon connection to my understanding.

Analyzing

TW's

pre-death reads points to

Lalendra and

Lovebird

as him being correct in his reads; but one is flipped town.
Analyzing

Mylo's

pre-death reads points to

Ausuka and Janitor

as potential scum, but I'm not sure of either of them being scum, and my townread on

Ausuka

still remains...

Mylo

was also borderline useless so I wouldn't be surprised that town shot them as opposed to

TW

literally being townblocc'ed.

I think it's very possible

Lalendra

is a member of the scumteam.

In the same breath, I think

Lalendra and Lovebird

had both town and scum on the wagons, especially due to the deflating and inflating of

Lalendra's

wagon throughout a lot of D1.

Lalendra

, why did you out

Iconeum

-cop?

Let's assume you're truthful in that you're a Role Cop and you got a Cop result on him:

1)

You let that knowledge be known to the scumteam.

2)

A cop could've been utilized with their actions through discussion on who should be looked at, outside of that knowledge being public.

If you believed Iconeum was a Town Cop

; why didn't you defend him or back him in his potential claim if he were pushed to L-1? You could've confirmed his claim or outed a potential lie. This could've been avoided.

If you believed Iconeum was a Scum Cop trying to conftown himself

; why isn't your vote there? You didn't state any type of read or assessment over your results with

Iconeum

, which strikes me as disingenuous.

VOTE: Lalendra

1)

Very likely to be in a scumteam that NKed

TW

based on him being townread AND having accurate reads.

2)

I think their claim is truthful, but I think they're more likely Mafia as Role Cop, I'd also argue that a Universal Backup is less likely to be chosen as scum because it could contain roles that serve little to no use as Mafia.

3)

Votes for the popular wagon aside from themselves: 1435 - 1784 - 1912

4)

Wagon had lots of attention, deflated and inflated a lot throughout D1 with little clarity revolving around it.

~~~

Math

, why is

Janitor

a better flip to see than

Lalendra

?

SIMYK

, why do you think the vig is likely to be Mafia?

Ircher

, why the

Mutant

vote...?

Mutant

, and you are?

~~~

My VLA starts tomorrow, I'm going out of town around 7 AM my Central time.

Going to reread Mutant, Janitor, davesaz, and Iconeum

[Taly]

Why would you ask for that

Math

, and where did you ask?

I've skimmed and read the past few pages twice.

And even so,

Lalendra

is a confident scumread I have based on other points.

Also, I always outline my reasons because they not only help me organize my thoughts, they promote good content to respond with, AND let me know if I've overlooked something... which is apparent.

You answered "why a Mutant vote" right in your post. Look right below where you asked the question.

Pedit: This is @Taly

Also, I still think lynching confirmed scum

may

generally be the better move? But I don't disagree with a Janitor lynch simply due to the info it gives and the fact that the case is there to some extent or another.

So

Mutant

is confirmed scum solely based off not really being present or providing an opinion? What do you think about

Lalendra

, then?

2) I think their claim is truthful, but I think they're more likely Mafia as Role Cop, I'd also argue that a Universal Backup is less likely to be chosen as scum because it could contain roles that serve little to no use as Mafia.

Also this is empirically incorrect

And also mechanically incorrect

Honestly you're wasting your time casing confscum with 90% literally wrong points

OK honestly, explain this to me like I'm dumb, because I genuinely think I'm missing info.

And if

Lalendra

is confscum to you, why is your vote on

Janitor

?

[Taly]

-_-*...

I'll just spend a good bit of the little time of Mafia I'll have starting tomorrow to reread the thread...

[Taly]

I see your point

Math

... Sometimes, I vomit in thread and expect information to come to me through the attention I grab. x-x ...It's one of the faults to my playstyle I've picked up on recently, and I'm working to correct it.

I'm going to read the thread more thoroughly but my posting will be minimalist starting

May 18th to May 25th ((VLA time))

[Taly]

Phoneposting now.

Went for Neighborizer, came back VT.

Neigborizer is higher up in the list.

[Taly]

It's more popular than I thought.

[Taly]

The game is slowing down :/

To the people that think

Lalendra

is confscum or near that level and are not voting her:

1)

Why is

Janitor

a better lynch and somehow more likely to flip scum?

2)

Why are you not voting period?

3)

As an extension, if the 2nd question is directed to you, why the hell aren't you doing anything about it?

[Taly]

Fuck I'm VLA and I'm more active than half of the playerlist

[Taly]

Confirming that

Ircher

hooded me

I'm not moving my vote off confscum onto maybe scum. The major in-game argument for

Janitor

-scum is an associative, and we can't confirm that he is PR unlike what we already know about

Lalendra.

I've seen enough town guess and not lynch the stronger likely scum option and then it never happens. That literally fucked me and the rest of town over in Open 712

If

Lalendra

appears in multiple associative theories as scum, then her flip is far more valuable earlier.

Also

Math,

the whole

"Janitor is skitter30"

makes 0 sense to me.

1)

They have a different posting style and tone.

2) Janitor

uses "he" as a pronoun and

Skitter

uses "she"

3)

You still haven't even explained why this is Skitters sxumgame... if you really do believe this is an alt playing to a scum meta, why don't you elaborate?

And you should answer instead of saying "I've already stated this",

Math

I've reread the past 20 pages of the damn thread so if I have a question you're not helping push your thoughts by not even trying to post a link or quote.

I'll look at D1 interactions but I can't promise much... I don't have my computer and I don't have a lot of time to devote to ISO diving for a week.

[Taly]

@Math

Open 712 WAS a multiball but the concept is still the same.

If you think Lalendra is confscum, why aren't you pushing for that lynch? Instead you're going for what you THINK could be scum and thus not only allowing WIFOM about PR actions- (((because with Lalendra being scum, WHAT credibility do you find with her results?))) But also WIFOM over the alignment of Janitor, Lalendra, and yourself.

Your actions are not aligning with your reads.

~~~

Also, I disagree with Janitor and Skityer having an identical tone.

I have played with Skitter before.

They use different wordings, I think they have a different approach to the game, and I can't see why you think this way when MOST of your argument is
"This is what I think and it's right."

Also, if you know what town-Skitter looks like.... WHY are you using that as an indicator of what scum-Skitter is?

People can look very similar as both alignments, and if you're TRULY sold on Janitor being Skitter-scum, I hope you have more than 1 or 2 games supporting your thought process and you SHOULD link them.

And even then:
Lynch Priority-
Confscum > Potential Scum

[Taly]

FUCK

We should've listened to Math...

[Taly]

Before I shower and then articulate my fucked midgame readskist, we need answers to 2 things

1) Janitor, what role did you go for?
2) Iconeum, who did you target last night and what results did you get?

[Taly]

VOTE: Iconeum

And who would I be scum with, exactly?

I targeted Saske this night, no result.

Lynching janitor today.

What do you think of Mutants switching his vote from you to Lalendra?

I don't understand his reads much. Going solely by draft st this point seems dismissive of all the other game information.

Why should we prioritize roleblocker?

Lalendra flipping town means her Cop result on Iconeum is probably correct.

There is credibility in prioritizing an RB because with Iconeum getting NO results for the 2nd time in a row it means one of two things:

1) Iconeum is Mafia Cop trying to conftown himself through having no substantial results but being a confed cop.
2) Iconeum is Town Cop getting repeatedly RBed

With the 1st number being normal in drafts for scum, I have reservations with treating Iconeum as an IC.

However, my townread on Janitor has deteriorated completely with the Math flip. Multiple people who have suspected him have flipped town and there's nothing to suggest his VT claim is valid based on draft and claim info.

VOTE: The Janitor

Townbloc for me right now: {Taly, Ircher, Eddie, Ausuka, SIMYK}

Dave is townlean, but I'll need to reread him again.

{Iconeum, Mutant} are question marks still.

I'll explain reads in depth later when I have time.

[Taly]

Let’s use as much of D3 as we have.

Was just about to say this

I'm going to do some ISO digging

[Taly]

@Janitor

1) Your major response to Maths case on you was to vote Lalendra, the second most popular wagon at the timr...

2) Instead of giving up and claiming nobody is going yo hear you out, perhaps you should state why the reasons to suspect you are wrong and try?

3) Why do you distrust Dave and what makes you believe he's the RB? You're giving borderline no substance when there is plenty to dissect.

[Taly]

Letting you guys know that the biggest "I'm busy" part of vacation is right now. Today I'm doing things exclusively with family and almost ALL of tomorrow will be us travelling

If I don't post today or tomorrow I'll post Saturday most likely

[Taly]

HOLY SHIT YAY. I'M FINALLY HOME AFTER A 13 HOUR CAR RIDE.

HAHAHAHAHHAAHA!!!! On my computer too!!!

Definitely now have the ability AND motivation to put more effort into the game, which has fallen into a very bothersome apathetic state, so FUCK THAT NOISE.

Going to do the ISOs I said I would and completely evaluate my reads because I'm really pissed about my accuracy in this game.

I'm pretty sure my posting style has changed a little, honestly. From having to rely on the phone so much.

Walls will come up - at the latest - tomorrow.

[Taly]

[Taly]

I'm really sorry guys, I have some posts almost ready to write and I'll have something up tonight.

Due to IRL events, I've been in a really shitty mood for the past 48 hours, to the point I can't think about mafia right now. :/

[Taly]

I wouldn't hammer just yet.

I'm going through hell right now IRL, and it's affected my motivation in this game, since it has slowed and I've been wrong twice this game.

The gist of my thoughts:

Ircher

is confirmed Neighborizer and conftown to me, this read has only gotten stronger and became more solidified with his content and with gamesolving.
Also

Ircher

, this is in respond to your ISO of me 2305

1)

If anything, the point of my draft number is null; I LITERALLY stuck to a number prior to ANY role PM being sent.

2)

I occasionally unvote when I don't entirely know my reads and I want to observe, I often unvote in order to acquire a reaction that leads to me acquiring a read.

3)

I get that I can seem too heated in my words; but I don't really get angry.

4)

I felt the original reasons for

Math

in D1, suspecting

Janitor

, made little sense because it relied entirely on setup without much other evidence of in-game discussion beyond what I disagreed with at the time. With

Math

formulating a case and dying. I felt the

Janitor-scum

push/case/lynch was much more justified and I still feel that way now.

5)

If there's anything you don't know what to make of, then ask.

I'm less sure about

dave

at this point, but I think it's town-motivated for

mutant

to look at all angles here and not jump onto a lynch.

I still don't see the huge reason for

SIMYK

RB or even

SIMYK

as scum, and even then, I'd argue with no results -

Iconeum

is a much more likely person that's higher in the draft to be scum. SIMYK has been very active with responding to the players as well as doing what they can to promote town cohesion. I feel like with the

Math

and

Lalendra

flips, the case and idea against

Janitor

is much more valid and solidified, ESPECIALLY after

Janitor

providing very little aid to disucssion in this dayphase.

By interactions and associatives with my scumreads,

{Iconeum, Janitor}

, I really don't see

Ausuka

or

Eddie

as a potential third scum - alongside their gameplay, and with

Lovebird

flipping town and 6 being a popular number in this setup, I highly doubt

Ausuka

and

Eddie

are scum, and they're the few solid townreads I have.

[Taly]

I'd rather

mutant

finish his analysis so we have more content to refer back to going into D4, but my read on

Janitor

is strong and solid, and the discussion so far hasn't wavered it.

[Taly]

would anyone be shocked if ico+janitor were both scum

I will drop this though, from what I've looked into so far I'm pretty sure the scum team is Janitor, Saske slot and either Taly OR Ausuka. I will explain this and back up such a claim later during this day (day 3, nor irl) but if you want to discuss that instead of getting bored and complaining about the day not being over then feel free to do so :3

I'll discuss this during the night I guess when I get a chance.

@Katy
VOTE: Katy
So you think the scum team COULD be Ircher/Ausuka/Taly?

Um... am I misreading? Where's the post where you think

Katy

thinks this?

[Taly]

:/ It's not surprising that I'm alive, I was on 2 mislynches.

My reads have been shit, and I've had wishy-washy motivation in light of this and out-of-game factors. My most confident reversal of a read has been

Janitor

.

I highly question how townread I've been in this game. I wouldn't be surprised if I was heavily WIFOMed or lynchbaited after the flip of almost anyone at this point in the game.

Most of the people I've scumread, been uncertain of, OR disagreed with this game has townread me to SOME extent:

{Eddie,

Math

,

Lalendra

, Dave, Janitor}

[Taly]

Damn it X_X This game slipped my mind.

I do see the scumpool being within

Iconeum/SIMYK slot/Janitor

, based off gameplay and draft results.

I really do not know how else to expand or alter my reads without a flip at this point. This day is stalling, and I think

mutant's

statistics and

Kats'

entrance will be much more beneficial to reference post-flip, solely because

Janitor

is widely scumread, and his flip will be very helpful with PoE and that he's likely scum due to his interactions with flipped town.

If anyone wants the day to continue for any reason, then they need to make it clear very soon.

[Taly]

Looking at the many townflips on the top of the draft

It's almost confirmed that scum is numerically and statistically within:

{Iconeum, Kats}

Also, here's the people who've been on ALL the mislynches thus far:

{

Taly,

Iconeum, Eddie, Ausuka}

It makes no sense for the entire scumteam to be on all of the lynches, that would both be extremely obvious and count on an

{Iconeum/Eddie/Ausuka}

scumteam, which makes 0 sense. With

Lovebird

flipping town, I don't understand why

{Ausuka/Eddie}

would repeat a POPULAR draft number, that guarantees a no PR.

Though, I can't dismiss the possibility of scum being within

{Eddie/Ausuka}

, because of votes, and it'd be dismissive to write off all the people who used the number 6 in the draft as town.

I want to see

Iconeum

give his night results before I make a further judgment on his slot. I don't think it's too unlikely that

Iconeum

is the Mafia Cop and

Kats

would be the RB in this case; that would be a perfect position for scum to conftown themselves and with all the flips so far being town, we cannot dismiss any reality here.

If

Iconeum

were Town Cop, why hasn't he been NKed? In this case, scum would've been RBing him since N1, and I don't think that's very likely given the massclaim and role-outing D2.

Janitor > Katyusha > Ausuka > Taly > Eddie > davesaz > Icon > Ircher

These were the NK's last reads.

Janitor

is town.

I'm

town.

Ircher

is conf'ed in every way possible.

If

Mutant's

death had anything to due with his accuracy of the game

((since he was very low on the draft list, I don't think he was NKed out of suspecting any type of PR or falsehood in his claim))

That concludes that scum is extremely likely within:

{Kats, Ausuka, Eddie}

- since they're lower in his reads.

Again, I don't think

Ausuka/Eddie

are scum together, and ALL of this post is mostly taking account mechanics.

I'm about to give a full readslist.

[Taly]

Where I'm At Right Now

Town

Ircher
Dave

Low-Town

Eddie

Scumteam

Ausuka
Kats
Iconeum

VOTE: Ausuka

Ausuka

appears in almost everything I think is scum, and I'm trusting

Ircher

a lot here, I can't even begin to fathom that he's scum given how in depth his reads have been. I doubt

Dave

is scum with

Iconeum

based on their interactions, and I've consistently felt

Eddie's

stream-of-consciousness to be more town, and I haven't played in enough games to believe

Ausuka's

strong based off meta. By PoE, I believe this would be the team.

[Taly]

...

[Taly]

WHAT THE FUCK. That happened way too damn fast

Ausuka

wasn't scum?

..oh

was it ircher kats taly

ffs

My god, so YOU were the person who was scum within the people who chose 6.

Iconeum/Kats/Eddie

was the scumteam.

[Taly]

it's davesaz :/

How is

Icon/Dave

scum together?

I'm not xcum dude

...There's no reason for you lie, but still...

[Taly]

Ircher,

Town Neighbourizer

, Endgamed
davesaz,

Vanilla Townie

, Endgamed
Iconeum,

Town Cop

, Endgamed



A win condition has been reached! The game ends in a

Perfect Mafia Victory

!

The mafia consisting of

Katyusha: ROLEBLOCKER
Taly: GOON
Eddie Cane: VENGEFUL

, have survived and won.

Ircher

, if it makes you feel better; you were talked about being an NK since N2. You were very dangerous and I couldn't give you enough info. and let you run with ot.

Lalendra

, I'm SO sorry for your stressful mislynch!! I NEVER bought the idea of you being confscum by the mod, and it made ZERO sense to me. I just parroted the thread to give you mislynched! Ily! <3

Mathdino

, you were GREAT at this game, and you scared me a little!

I pushed for your NK N2.

But P.S., I'm NOT the type of player you can meta-read off ONE game.

the worst

, baby, I shot you N1. I love you, sorry. <3

Lovebird

, it's scary how good you are at pegging me as scum. I couldn't have let you live after your vote. LOL No hard feelings!

Mylo

, you did NOT deserve the vig. You were genuine to me and I didn't really foresee you being mislynched, and so it was a random act of grace for scum when

Math

shot you.

Iconeum

, if I WERE town, the MOMENT

Lalendra

conf'ed you a Cop, I would've treated you as an IC indiscriminately of your gameplay. You were RBed this entire game, and we, as scum, had to perpetuate as much suspicion on you as possible.

Dave

, you were towny to me and I would've gut townread you in the beginning; I'm not the easiest person to meta read. <3

Ausuka

, I'M SO SORRY FOR YOUR MISLYCH, TOO. I KNEW THIS GAME STRESSED YOU, BUT YOU WERE WISENING UP THE LONGER THIS GAME LASTED. <3 <3 <3

Janitor

, I hard-defended you because it gave me towncred D1. I hard-lynched you because it fulfilled my wincon D3. <3

Mutant

, you were very strong endgame. We couldn't have let you survived when you treated

Iconeum

like an IC, but scumread

Kats

at the same time.

[Taly]

SIMYK, Eddie, and Kats

know how much I love them.

[Taly]

Release Mafia PT

[Taly]

yessiree

you released the Mafia PT, NOT the dead PT.

[Taly]

OH WAIT IT IS

didnt know that was a quicktopic too LOL

[Taly]

Also, I knew something was up when Taly stopped responding to me in the neighborhood PT...

When I didn't respond much D2/N2 and D3/N3, I was genuinely lacking motivation for the game.

But yeah, I wasn't going to give you much D4/N4 LOL

[Taly]

Was my scum game good guys...?

<3 <3 <3

This was my 3rd time as Mafia, ever.

(disregarding that 1 SK game I won in, in 2015)

[Taly]

LOL god it would've been too OP for scum if I had a PR.

I

genuinely

went for Neighborizer, though.

[Taly]

I would've gone for Neighborizer as town too, tho

[Taly]

That was the major hope of me joining this game LOL

Until I realized my scumbuddies were Afucking+<3

[Taly]

A short summary on what happened in thread. Lalendra had claimed she sent me a PAIR of roles during the draft and received one role as a result. Later on during the game day, I noticed a question asking me what I would have done if a player did not specify a singular role during the draft. To which I answered that I forced them to choose a role. This very clearly contradicted Lalendra's position, which may have caused people to think she was lying, which very likely fueled her eventual lynch.

If I were town, I probably wouldn't have bought this.

Lalendra

never really made sense as scum to me, but she couldn't have lived because both

Eddie

and

Kats/SIMYK's

roles were pro-scum.

[Taly]

Also

My AtE this game was not faked. ((ok, maybe 1 or 2 small posts were))

But my emotions were real... I just conveyed and used them that promoted a pro-scum narrative

[Taly]

Even if we bussed

Kats

, we would've won with bussing

Eddie

or mislynching elsewhere D5.

We basically avoided bussing here because we all wanted to try and survive together as buddies <3

[Taly]

As long as I wasn't a lynch target late-game, we were in a really, really great spot LOL

[Taly]

Eddie was vengeful. SIMYK/Kats were RB. I was the goon that was set to go far in the game.

just in case people missed this.

[Taly]

the worst

, baby, I shot you N1. I love you, sorry. <3

you'd better feel bad

Taly

I LOVE YOU BBY I SORRY <3

[Taly]

I thought it was ironic that I shot you tho LOL

[Taly]

we just made all of our interactions awkward town-like ones LOL

Eddie and I

did some theatre a lot D1

[Taly]

honestly yeah

SIMYK, Eddie, Me

were literally like a 3-slot hydra that was bickering but townbloccing each other at one point LOL

[Taly]

Simyk

you won with us <3

[Taly]

not intentionally avoiding you ^w^, though if i were town, id have definitely engaged with you

but engaging with you as Scum-Me served little purpose of benefit thats a compliment to you, btw.

and nah, i was never aiming to make you seem like scum at all. you were very towny to me

[Taly]

and yeah, i know im confbiased but your entire entrance was a full page of stream-of-consciousness then, which was followed by consistent engagement and progressively accurate reads

[Taly]

What made you think I was a threat?

and yeah, i know im confbiased but your entire entrance was a full page of stream-of-consciousness then, which was followed by consistent engagement and progressively accurate reads

The only thing that delayed your lynch to N3 was that I was campaigning for

Math's

N2 NK, and that you were suspected in D1.

[Taly]

{Mutant, the worst, Mathdino}

would've been scary for the scumteam to keep alive, especially together.

[Taly]

LOL WHY DID I SAY LYNCH

i meant NK

[Taly]

If I don't do anything to actively challenge the townreads on me, I'm probably deepwolfing

Math

[Taly]

What was the secret town-tell you thought you had, though? I'm curious

[Taly]

You know, I did briefly consider taking roleblocker when I saw the draft order.... But I like talking more, so I took neighborizer.

XD you prevented the entire scumteam from getting a PR <3

thats worth nothing

[Taly]

WAS I AN EASY READ EDDIE

HUH

[Taly]

lol poor mylo <3

[Taly]

Like it's actually straight up ridiculous that scum got 2/3 PRs while town ended up with
- Cop
- 1-shot Vig
- Neighborizer (a nothing role!)
- Jailkeeper

The setup was scumsided but this is the one setup where the balance is dependent on how well town/scum plays pre-game.

Town

- Vig, Role Cop, Cop, Jailkeeper, Neighborizer

(6 VT)

VS

Scum

- RB, Venge

(1 Goon)

I'd argue this was townsided; there was SO many things that could've gone wrong for scum in hindsight, we weren't townblocc'ed.

That quickhammer was our only hope for all of us surviving, honestly.

[Taly]

We didn't know until the claims happened, or the crumbing

Plus, if

Math

vigged scum N1, if

the worst

JKed me N1, if

Lalendra

survived past D2, if

Iconeum

were conf'ed as a Cop-IC, and if

Kats

were lynched ANYTIME before D4 - the scum could've easily lost.

That's just my thinking.

[Taly]

Hmm... I'd say it's more completely balanced in hindsight though?

[Taly]

OK maybe this is a bit scumsided.

But scum needed most of the lynches and NKs when they happened ;P