Newbie 1876 - Game Over!

[Bins]

I can explain it from the POV that his partner is the #1 person who won’t believe the claim cause he knows it’s a lie. Partners are normally the people who express the most unease about claims. When he first dropped it I really thought it was newb town and reasoned it as so. I would think a partner is more likely to go “Wow, a claim!” and express discomfort about it

[Skygazer]

FWIW I still see a possibility of you being town. I'm far from ready to lynch you (or Ice) this early into Day 2.

[GuerillaWoo]

Policy lynch bins

Why lol?

See: 440, GuerillaWoo et al, 2018

Can everyone in this game please stop saying I’m not scumhunting???

I’m so confused. If I have “new and original” reads, I’d be pulling stuff out of my ass. I got beaten to the punch with the Ice read so I find it easier to just go “ditto”. I’m reasoning my Trinity opinion and giving confirmation on townreads.

Do you want me to fake it? Like “hey guys!! I don’t really think this but Guerilla is scum because [fake reasons]”

Having a scum read is not scumhunting. You've done nothing to pursue Ice or Brass or Nonny. Those were all your scumreads and you've been disinterested in sussing them out from the rest. Now it's the same with Ice.

I'll tell you the same thing I told all my exes: yes.

Also can you not see the possibility of a member of town believing that claim?

Some people believe the earth is flat, but I know astronauts don't.

Geurilla I can urge you to look at my scum games to prove I’m not that trash and you don’t have to feel bad for me. I bus without hesitation in most scum games. I would have known there was no saving 2.7. You should look at the wagon for bussing, I’m 100% sure his partner knew he was screwed.

Meta is WIFOM. Look at 2.7's meta. Other town players corroborated it too. It gave them doubts. Meta is meaningless.

[nonny]

Turned into a re-read...long post ahead.

I want to wait and see how the replacement acts before doing anything else here, unless something major happens among the other 8 of us.

I want to wait and see how the replacement acts before doing anything else here, unless something major happens among the other 8 of us.

This is weird too. Kitty site flaked before even posting, why would you want to wait around to see how they act before doing anything? Like what about that slot was special enough to announce to the thread that you weren’t going to do anything? And then you come out of retirement a whole 2 posts later after Iceman asked you a question.

With E's flip this does look odd, why wait for the replacement? Though after finishing re-read sky still looks town to me.

post 121 Again, this stands out as well. Brass points out E saying "2 scum" are not likely to jump on this wagon.

Just claim your role, then.

Like, this is the most half assed role claim I've seen in a while and the only reason I can think of for someone to say "I'm a PR" and nothing else is that they are trying to avoid a Counterclaim because they are scum.

I'm not buying a non-specific "PR" claim.

post 226
First quote looks like bussing, second link coaching. Would Brass openly coach scumE? Doubtful, maybe to create deniable plausibility, but doubtful.

I'm not sure I see scum bussing this hard. Along with the reverse of 2.8 trying to get Brass lynched. Seems like a very big gambit, almost too big for newbie game, but still feels off.

Skygazer what's your take on the post discussed in post 215 in hindsight?

post 236 Is it weird to say I agree with myself? I still agree with the end of this post. I feel E's partner was either inactive or newb as well. Leaning towards Trinity being scum partner as of right now.

Trinity two different times stated "I type'd something long and then lost it" Weird to use that excuse twice. (Second time was in 271 for reference)
Post 273 Sky pointing this out makes me wonder. Was 2.7 buddying me so that Trinity could "hunt" me? Does seem suspect.

post 277 with post 271 Still looks odd. Did 2.8 tell you to just go ahead and vote for him?

I don't think lynching Bins today is the best idea for the record, for reasons I don't want to talk about yet.

I think it's time to talk about it....

[nonny]

Broke into two, sorry for walls of text.

The Brass/Bins interaction just comes off as Bins bullying Brass, was going to post on this in twilight but we didn't have one :'( but one post stands out, post 374. I just personally hate meta, especially using your own meta when stating "this is my meta", if you know your meta, then you know how to fake your meta. /steps off soap box

Ice's post 376 is odd as hell.

I can't even express to you guys how many fist pumps there were after that flip. Vindication feels so damn good. Good on Skygazer for cutting through the hand wringing (mine included).

^This

I jumped off of the wagon because I've played with 2.7 in the last game and he was all over the place. It started to seem to me like he might just be a super newb blundering around. I decided it was worth giving a claimed doc a chance to prove themselves. I was wrong. I also started to agree with Bins logic that Brass was our scum. I had jumped off of 2.7 so that I could go over Brass more closely and possibly start working a wagon on brass.

I don't know why but, I kind of get the feeling like I was set up. I know scum wouldn't have known that I was going to jump off but boy did that hammer come quickly after I got off. I'm convinced scum was on the wagon and I'm also super suspicious of SkyGrazer. I think Sky is the scum and they bussed 2.7 right at a time when they might be able to line up a mislynch day two.

Sky was on the E wagon from the begining, well, she jumped off once or twice but never said she wasn't suspecting him. She also gave clear intent well in advanced. What was it that actually convinced you in what Bins said?

I feel like the hammer was thrown super quick right after I hopped off and was starting to follow Bins logic. To me it just feels like it was a good way to put a town into a suspicious light. That is exactly how the situation is being framed. Ice jumped off to make a bigger delay. Its frustrating because I was super on board for lynching E. I was one of the ones who stayed on the longest.

It was quick, but two people voted for that hammer to happen. And saying you were on the "longest" while true is stretching for credibility. You votes E in post 222 and unvoted in 376, in those 154 posts in-between only 8 were from you. Just because your vote stayed on while you lurked doesn't mean you get a cookie for being on longest. Why is sky more suspect then Woo?

Why is everyone so hung up on “content” this game.
Like I feel stressed out to produce stuff but I have been playing the game. What else are you looking for? i agree with your Ice read.

You just say seemingly random things and don't support them. It's a very poor way to play, it doesn't look pro-town at all. You should be showing where the issues are and how you arrived at your conclusions. Just curious, is this your first game as IC?

I believe they're a necessity in the early game when they're an option, if the need to use em arises. Like imo 2.7 was a policy lynch. We can call his claim scummy or talk about how we read obvious bad intentions but let's avoid the unearned confidence of hindsight for a sec: the biggest argument for lynching him was depriving scum the capacity to use him as WIFOM. We all had doubts and wanted to back out at various points, and at the end of the day we kinda got lucky on a policy lynch. We weren't at all certain he was scum. We risked losing a doctor.
.

Not to sound pretentious, but when I came off the vote it was typically because I wanted to day to continue because we were getting content, and content helps the town. I never bought the claim *shrug* can't really prove it because I don't think I said it in those exact words. Not sure it's really a policy lynch, that's a stretch IMO. Either way glad it worked out how it did.

[nonny]

From all this I'm between Ice and Trinity as scum. More confident in the latter so VOTE: Trinity.

Feel free to continue your regularly scheduled program. (sorry for asking votes to stop, felt like a lot was happening quickly while I was stuck re-reading, now off to bed since stayed up way too late doing all that)

[nonny]

Mod, can you edit that huge unsightly blank space out of my post 454?

(Am I allowed to ask that?)

Done.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also Ice's post 50 was, well, post 50. That was before the roleclaim. It was what started the 2.7 wagon in the first place. He was one of the first to call him out on it. Things weren't hopeless for 2.7. Up until Sky posted intent Bins was still acting like he wasn't gonna be lynched.

But most importantly: Bins was defending him even before his claim. It wasn't this sudden "Whoa, we might lose a doctor, let's back off." It was in line with a pattern of behavior.

[nonny]

Also Ice's post 50 was, well, post 50. That was before the roleclaim. It was what started the 2.7 wagon in the first place. He was one of the first to call him out on it. Things weren't hopeless for 2.7. Up until Sky posted intent Bins was still acting like he wasn't gonna be lynched.

But most importantly: Bins was defending him even before his claim. It wasn't this sudden "Whoa, we might lose a doctor, let's back off." It was in line with a pattern of behavior.

For the first part, can you clarify if you are bringing this up in point or townIce or scumIce?

Also, how do you read Ice in hypothetical world where Bins is town in your mind?

[TrinityNZ]

From all this I'm between Ice and Trinity as scum. More confident in the latter so VOTE: Trinity.

Feel free to continue your regularly scheduled program. (sorry for asking votes to stop, felt like a lot was happening quickly while I was stuck re-reading, now off to bed since stayed up way too late doing all that)

Gosh, I didn’t know I could ask for posts to stop. I’d like that too. I’m really struggling to catch up with everything that’s been said during my day at work, I really don’t know where to start! I have to keep checking definitions of things, like bussing, policy lynch, WIFOM, and every time I come back there’s another long post!

Two things now: nonny- yes I’ve been having technical difficulties but I’m pretty sure I only lost a long post once. It’s possible I posted the same one twice, or referred back to that same one.

Someone mentioned that I hadn’t followed up enough on questions. If I’m happy with an answer to a question I probably won’t keep on picking away at it - it makes more sense to me to try something new, and also read what others are saying. I feel that I did enough to work out E was bad, and vote for him, and I’m hoping to do the same for the second one shortly.

[GuerillaWoo]

Also Ice's post 50 was, well, post 50. That was before the roleclaim. It was what started the 2.7 wagon in the first place. He was one of the first to call him out on it. Things weren't hopeless for 2.7. Up until Sky posted intent Bins was still acting like he wasn't gonna be lynched.

But most importantly: Bins was defending him even before his claim. It wasn't this sudden "Whoa, we might lose a doctor, let's back off." It was in line with a pattern of behavior.

For the first part, can you clarify if you are bringing this up in point or townIce or scumIce?

Also, how do you read Ice in hypothetical world where Bins is town in your mind?

Not sure what you mean by the first sentence. My point is Bins' 4th post in the thread was a defense of 2.7. She practically came in here defending him and voting for people on his early wagon. Ice didn't. He was part of that early wagon. The only point he truly stepped off that wagon was when the game slowed.

I read him as kind of a newbie who isn't trying to seem like a newbie. It's why I like Ice. He's not trying to lower the thread's expectations of him. He's not spending more time here justifying his absence than scumhunting. He's taken contrarian stances to us. I think there's scumminess to be read into his posts, I don't disagree with that part, but it doesn't make sense to me why scum that's certain their partner's going down would suddenly go "hang on, I'm not sure about this". By that point there was intent to hammer. It was L-1. It comes across as nerves to me. He even doubted his read on Bins, deferring to her experience briefly ("Why would a scum IC not just fake a wall?").

One thing's for sure, I hope he's back here posting more.

[TrinityNZ]

Basically what Skygazer said is gonna be my defence. .

What do you mean by this? I don’t understand - it doesn’t seem like much of a defence at all...

[TrinityNZ]

I think second scum is in Ice or Trinity.

Can you expound on that? Why do you see trinity as scum?

POE.

Guerilla pushed E harder than anyone, so town.

I still don't buy that Bins and E would be on the same mislynch wagon, town.

Nonny was being hardcore defended by E, which even for slippy scum like E was, I would not buy, town.

Skygazer has been pretty townie to me as well with some good posts and good contribution.

Trinity has not shown to be town, so, by POE, could be scum. I liked the early questions but as conftown FormerFish pointed out, Trinity never followed up. Not town.

I feel like I followed up enough to vote on E. I’m trying!

[TrinityNZ]

Having gone through Trinity's ISO I'd also have no issue lynching her.

Why is that?

[TrinityNZ]

I feel so lost in this game sometimes. I'm struggling to figure out how Nonny is suddenly conf!town. Uggg.

I’m with you on that one! I don’t agree that she is con!town because of her defence of E. (I haven’t checked that one, but I’m assuming it means ‘confirmed town’).

[GuerillaWoo]

Having gone through Trinity's ISO I'd also have no issue lynching her.

Why is that?

Just cuz you appeal to being new a lot but then have these moments where you say something experienced. It comes off like coaching. Plus you didn't really seem to react all that much to his claim. Felt like business as usual to you. When I was rereading ISOs I tried to focus less on who actually voted for 2.7, and more on how people reacted to his doc claim. It didn't seem to faze you.

Latter goes for Bins and Ice as well. Partly what's motivating my scum reads on y'all. Less so for Ice but yeah, I gotta acknowledge it felt like he reacted coolly to the claim.

[GuerillaWoo]

I feel so lost in this game sometimes. I'm struggling to figure out how Nonny is suddenly conf!town. Uggg.

I’m with you on that one! I don’t agree that she is con!town because of her defence of E. (I haven’t checked that one, but I’m assuming it means ‘confirmed town’).

It does mean confirmed town, but I was being hyperbolic. None of us are

confirmed

town except for FormerFish. What I meant is she's very very townie.

[GuerillaWoo]

Ok so, my day's nearing its end, and I'm gonna make this suggestion based on nonny's previous post:

Brass, Nonny, Sky, and myself are town.

Bins, Ice, and Trinity are null.

Let's run with this assumption and stop reading their posts in relation to 2.7's flip. Pretty sure we're gonna drive each other nuts going "This one was nicer to the bad man than the other one, this one was meaner to scum than" etc. Let's just take a townie PoE, and work on reading our nulls.

I think we're limiting ourselves to a single framework—the lens of the flip—let's just briefly find another lens.

[TrinityNZ]

Okay lol yeah so that was pretty bad.
UNVOTE:

Why is everyone so hung up on “content” this game.
Like I feel stressed out to produce stuff but I have been playing the game. What else are you looking for? i agree with your Ice read.

And like I actually kinda feel bad for Bins. Her partner made a stupidly risky gambit and couldn't follow through on D1. I think she would've bussed him if it were D2 or D3 but I can actually see a scum Bins tryna rescue her partner from himself. Not overtly, not by saying "I think his claim is legit", but by saying "I don't want to potentially lose the doctor."

I don't think it matters. We know our lynchpool consists of Bins, Ice, and Trinity. If the second scum is in nonny, brass, or sky then we're not gonna spend today suspecting any of em (and we'll prolly lose the game). We have no reason to, but the four of us are so motivated by the D1 scum lynch that we're pretty much determining town's trajectory on D2. Does it make sense why I think Bins is particularly lynch-worthy after those posts? She's the IC. She's uninterested in scumhunting. At best, she's sheeping someone else's PoE without acknowledging the disconnect between both Trinity reads.

I'd like to know why Trinity would buss hard.

It looks like you decided all this before all of us had even posted (at least I hadn’t). I know i’m new, but feel like I didn’t even get a chance to post following the lynch before you had formed your ‘group of four’.

Could you explain what ‘buss hard’ means?

[GuerillaWoo]

Fair enough, although forming reads based on posts made in the prior day are fair game. It's not like there's a slate that's wiped clean with every cycle.


Bussing is to "throw (one) under the bus". What Bins was saying is if you were 2.7's partner, you would've aggressively pursued his lynch.

[TrinityNZ]

Fair enough, although forming reads based on posts made in the prior day are fair game. It's not like there's a slate that's wiped clean with every cycle.

Bussing is to "throw (one) under the bus". What Bins was saying is if you were 2.7's partner, you would've aggressively pursued his lynch.

OK, although, if I was 2.7’s partner, I would have preferred him to stay around!

[TrinityNZ]

Having gone through Trinity's ISO I'd also have no issue lynching her.

Why is that?

Just cuz you appeal to being new a lot but then have these moments where you say something experienced. It comes off like coaching. Plus you didn't really seem to react all that much to his claim. Felt like business as usual to you. When I was rereading ISOs I tried to focus less on who actually voted for 2.7, and more on how people reacted to his doc claim. It didn't seem to faze you.

Latter goes for Bins and Ice as well. Partly what's motivating my scum reads on y'all. Less so for Ice but yeah, I gotta acknowledge it felt like he reacted coolly to the claim.

You’ve made my day! I haven’t felt like I’ve said much that sounds experienced, and have made quite a few snafus with the mechanics of posting, so it’s good to know that sometimes I sound like I know what I’m doing.

Do you think it sounds like someone has been coaching me? That would be 2.7? Or do you think I’m pretending to be new and I was coaching him?

There are probably two reasons why I didn’t react to the claim as much as some others. Firstly, I didn’t understand what was going on and what making a claim even meant. I don’t want to appeal to being new again, as I’m aware I’ve done it a lot, but there you go.

Secondly, I seem to be in a different time zone to everyone else, and by the time I see some posts, there’s already been a lot of discussion, so I have nothing new to add. Early on, I did try agreeing with what others had said, just to be involved, but got told I was just sheeping, so am trying not to do that as much (assuming sheeping is a bad thing).

[GuerillaWoo]

Sheeping isn't inherently bad, the accusation just means "I don't think you arrived at this read independently and you're parroting what someone else said". A lotta times it can just be a prod, a "why did you agree with this". If you're scum and do it effectively, it isn't bad. It's really just copying someone else's homework for the grade.

I am curious, who are your scum reads currently? Now that you've gotten more of a hang on the game and what it entails, who do you think is bullshitting us? Does your disagreement with my segregating the thread into those reads extend past your inclusion in the scummy group? Just looking for your thoughts.

[TrinityNZ]

So, after reading through everything that’s happened today, it looks like we have:

Iceman - 2 votes
Bins - 2 votes
Me - 1 vote

I am still strongly leaning towards Bins as scum because of her trying to help 2.7 and because she is doing very little in her role as IC. This could be because maybe it’s difficult to be IC and scum at the same time. (I’m basing the IC role on what I read about it in the wiki.) Of course, I could be wrong, and it could be that she is performing the perfect IC/scum role, in leaving the rest of us to battle things out between us and self-destruct, hence showing us how to play the game perfectly.

Nonny still feels suspicious to me, because of her earlier defence of 2.7, and now she is trying to point suspicion at me.

Ice looks like town to me because he is voting Bins.

Sky, brass, guerilla - I also think are town as they are doing a good job of scumhunting and raising lots of good points.

I want to vote Bins, I think this makes it L-1.

VOTE: Bins

[TrinityNZ]

Sheeping isn't inherently bad, the accusation just means "I don't think you arrived at this read independently and you're parroting what someone else said". A lotta times it can just be a prod, a "why did you agree with this". If you're scum and do it effectively, it isn't bad. It's really just copying someone else's homework for the grade.

I am curious, who are your scum reads currently? Now that you've gotten more of a hang on the game and what it entails, who do you think is bullshitting us? Does your disagreement with my segregating the thread into those reads extend past your inclusion in the scummy group? Just looking for your thoughts.

Thanks for that. I was just typing up my reads, so you can see who I think is bullshitting! (Sorry I don’t understand your third question - could you rephrase it thanks?