A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Jingle]

How does mastina hipshooting her gladiates solve thread apathy?

By making people take stances upon which they can be read and interact with each other? Fuck that shit. The problem isn't with mastina. The problem is with the complete lack of anything being done in the thread.

[Jingle]

Like Jingle, this is a seemingly huge overreation.

If jj ever uses his ability, his will be the only lynch I support on that day. No exceptions.

If you'd like to change my mind, give me a single scenario in which it is protown to have a portion of the playerlist unable to change their votes.

[Jingle]

I mean, even if Mastina is town we could just rando gladiate and we'd be fine I think. There's literally no point in scum hunt and give the scum team information.

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

Is it dice tags? Cause that is genuinely what you're suggesting.

[Jingle]

Like Jingle, this is a seemingly huge overreation.

If jj ever uses his ability, his will be the only lynch I support on that day. No exceptions.

If you'd like to change my mind, give me a single scenario in which it is protown to have a portion of the playerlist unable to change their votes.

When scum are he major wagons?

JJ, does it freeze future votes too or are they still moveable after they vote?

So... What you're saying is that if we're already going to lynch scum, the role helps us to lynch the scum we're already going to lynch.

You see how that is literally 0 utility, right?

Compared to, we have 5 three vote wagons, he za waraji's and it becomes literally impossible to lynch. Compared to we run someone up and they claim a protown role, and JJ can paralyse. We no longer have a chance to lynch anyone else.

[Jingle]

How do you find scum in a game of mafia?

but I've been pushing my reads and giving my opinions on the game. I'm not the problem.

I agree. And if we had 10 more yous there wouldn't be an issue at all.

[Jingle]

I'm gonna case jjh now, independently of the "his role is literally only useful for scum" bit.

[Jingle]

A summary of jj's play this game, from my PoV.

JJ defended mastina for role alone.
JJ pushed Vecna for having a post restriction, but backed down as soon as Vecna claimed IC.
JJ never followed up on the Vecna thing post IC claim retraction.
JJ dumped fuel on the fire that is NR.
JJ talked mechanics.

Despite the fact that nothing else stands out from his ISO, he has the most posts in thread. And he's been involved in everything that has caused the issues in this thread.

JJ's defense of mastina has been beating a dead horse. And while he's doing it, he's done nothing else of worth. It's also specifically not a reason to townread him because that stance is the perfect WK stance. It tells us nothing about his alignment.

The Vecna push was good. The lack of follow up when Vecna retracted is super scummy. There's no paranoia, nothing. All of the suspicions he had are suddenly gone, because "Oh, the post restriction was optional."

JJ's entire interaction with NR is low risk for him. No one is going to listen to NR's suspicions about him when she's faking guilties and that is 100% something scum jj would know. Better, his stance morphed from NR's inconsistencies are because she's terrible to NR couldn't fake a guilty on town like this to NR is good enough to tailor her meta to fool a single player when confronted with meta that shows his stance is wrong.

Spoiler: I linked this to him.

I also still think her rolecop would give her the full PM because again, this is a theme game

Better point, and worth considering. But attempting to convince NR that she's scum instead of engaging other people to try to convince them/hear their reasoning is, again, counterproductive. Whether or not she is in fact scum. And if you stop tunneling her for a minute I think you'll realize that.

In that particular game she was a mason with mastina and got into an argument with someone (also town) over a very similar step in logic (hideously OP interaction can't possibly exist) that presupposed information she didn't have. In her defense, a lot of this was caused by another set of players, one scum and one town, fakeclaiming mason together. Fair warning,

That legitimately sounds like a perfect game to trial the meta shit on

I'm not looking macro here

it's not gonna be a fun read.

Again, no follow up. No reconsideration of his read. He just pivots to argue NR is scum for a different reason.

And yet, despite this being the summation of his ISO:

It's jjh/Jingle/Porkens/mastina scumteam.

Didn't you notice how whenever I try to pressure Porkens and/or mastina, jjh is always there to defend them in some way?

I wonder why that is?

Gee I don't know

JJ is the most active by a large margin in the game that is suffering mostly because of thread clog and a lack of AI posting.

Like, jjh is quite towny for suggesting its usage here

Bonus points!~ This is not a towny usage of his ability!

Using mastina's gladiate is optimal mechanically. Even if you disagree with me, JJ doesn't. Provably, because he's only said it about 1000 times.

There are two possible results from him using his ability here. 1. We don't get to use the mislynch doctor. 2. We have less accountability for votes than we already did. Both of those are proscum.

And yet, he only brings up this plan when I've already mentioned that we should just scumhunt as though mastina doesn't exist.

JJ is scum.

[Jingle]

Here’s the thing: he gave a warning. That alone makes it more towny. Plus: it’s an RC Upick, so you really think this speculation of this being a pro-scum ability means jack shit?

Yeah, you see, saying I'm going to hammer anything that gets to L-1 is not more towny than hammering anything that gets to L-1. It's in fact pretty much the opposite.

[Jingle]

FWIW, Nico/Mastina might still be a mechanical 1v1 and Nico really needs to ask the mod the question I've told her to ask repeatedly so we can solve that.

[Jingle]

Current reads, associatives not considered:

Town:

KuroiXHF
Chickadee
Mastina
Nero Cain
Creature
Nicorobin

Scum:

Aristophanes
Vecna
Northsidegal
jjh927

Needs additional sorting:

1) The MEME Men
3) Firebringer
6) Gamma Emerald
8) Skygazer
9) Varsoon
11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
15) Lady Angel

[Jingle]

I think that specifically Vecna and JJ can't be scum together. But the strength of the reads is roughly in order.

Convince me I'm wrong on jj or that someone else is more likely to be scum. Or vote with me.

Sitting back isn't helpful.

[Jingle]

associatives not considered

[Jingle]

Also, mastina and NR MIGHT be a mechanical 1v1. I'm townreading both of them independently. I'd like to know if they are a mechanical 1v1 because then I know I'm wrong, but I need to have Nico ask a question I've quoted like 5 times or have her flip so I can ask it publically to find out.

[Jingle]

I mean, I've told you why this is towny of jjh so yeah...

And I've told you why it isn't.

Sure, it might appear towny on the surface. But both possible outcomes are proscum.

Announcing you're going to do a proscum thing doesn't make it not scummy. It just means you can say "I warned you" when people go to lynch you afterwards. Which is scummy.

[Jingle]

Why not use it here?

It makes it objectively harder to get a lynch on anyone not currently being wagoned. Current wagons: NR who jj is pushing and Mastina, who JJ is hard townreading. That means the odds that we hit a scumlynch if JJ is scum (hint, he's not scum with either of those two) is functionally 0%.
It makes it so that we can't use the gladiate to clear someone if we don't reach a consensus.
It means we have a high likelihood of No Lynching without any mechanical advantage gained.
It removes the accountability we do have for our lynches by artificially forcing mastina to hipfire or abandon her role for the day, with a handicap of anyone who doesn't unvote before his ultimatum being essentially useless for the rest of the day, feeding the thread apathy.
It apparently gets him towncred.

The other option, of course, is to hope he makes it to super late game to maybe get an autowin out of the role.

Both are options. Using the role at all is inherently a scum move.

[Jingle]

Like, framer is a cool role.

I'm never going to use a framer shot as town, because it's inherently bad for my team.

[Jingle]

^Literally the problem with JJ's role. Now we not only have people not voting because they can't be bothered to play, we also have people not voting because he's threatening to take their voice away from them.

[Jingle]

I don't really think he is.

He's doing similar kinds of mechanicsy shit as he did in this game, especially noting that I believe he was trying to push a mechanical pro scum!NR strat wrt mastina earlier which links the two together. I would also bring attention to this game as I was scum with Jingle there and him scumreading me after seeing my scumgame there is laughable

Yes. The game where you replaced in to a suspicious slot after a scumlynch in a super lategame and got lynched for not really doing anything is very different from this one. I can see how I should definitely be townreading your lack of real content now.

And me being focused on mechanics is completely null.



So you haven't had time to meta NR, but you abandoned the angle of "There's no way she would pull a stunt like this as town" and shifted to "She's doing this to manipulate meta for mastina" for what reason now?

[Jingle]

Wagoning mastina today is a waste of time.

And no. She's not.

Unless you can tell me how Chick would have been lynched with 7 votes yesterday.

[Jingle]

And you've arrived at that conclusion by not reading the game I linked you. The same game, btw, that mastina linked later. Flail harder.

[Jingle]

Considering Jingle too

You know what might convince me you were serious? A wagon.

[Jingle]

I've not metadived NicoRobin yet because I had an important presentation to give yesterday, and if I was reading shit I should have been reading scientific papers. For what it's worth, I don't think I'd have been as distracted by this game as scum, because I find it a chore to play scumgames. You really should metadive me.

And you've arrived at that conclusion by not reading the game I linked you. The same game, btw, that mastina linked later. Flail harder.

Your push changed drastically after I linked you the game. You claim to not have had the time to do meta on NR's slot. Occams razor tells me either you're lying about having read the game, or you're lying about whether your read is genuine. Town has no reason to lie about either of those things.

[Jingle]

All I keep hearing from Jingle is "let me give you a question with an obvious answer and you have to defend against that obvious answer or I'm right." His posts are so pointed and manipulative.

The mechanical things do have obvious answers, and not considering them is stupid.

Being pointed in pushing a scumread is how you get said scumread lynched.

[Jingle]

My push changed drastically after Mastina made a defence of NR

You realize she literally linked the same game as I did, right?

[Jingle]

That boiled down to literally the same thing I said. Nico did pretty much exactly the same thing in that game. As town.

And the answer to that was "Nico can mimic her towngame as scum".

Which, you came to the conclusion of after... Not metadiving her.

[Jingle]

So you knew that NR was good at manipulating her meta when you told me that the game she was in seemed like a perfect match to what you needed to meta. Which means that it was already useless to you and you were lying about it being useful.

Like, all of this is literally proving my point that either you're lying about metaing her or you're lying about the reason behind changing your push.

[Jingle]

My summation of the game included the fact that mastina was a mason with her in that game, and yet it was the perfect example. So by your own logic of "she was doing it to manipulate mastina" how was it "the perfect game to meta."

[Jingle]

I'm comparing two separate circumstances wherein her behavior is an almost identical match. The difference is the target of her rage. This was a perfect ecological sample, and yet also a bad approach to meta.

These are literally opposite viewpoints

from you

. Either that game is a perfect example from which to draw meta, in which mastina's meta defense is fine, or it's not. You've taken both directly contradictory stances, because you're not trying to read NR. You're trying to lynch NR.

I've explained why the motivation is the same (and NAI) and your response is that she's manipulating that meta. I neither care nor want to read enough games in the next two days to deal with tendencies.

[Jingle]

She still does in some games, which is why I can't be arsed to look at a plethora of games for tendencies.

[Jingle]

My point being simply that this game and that game both show NR going off the rails and doing stupid shit because of a perceived persecution, showing a vulnerability in her character to tunneling and a propensity towards misapplying setup knowledge that implies she would be perfectly capable of doing the same thing here, as town?

What part of that is invalid?

[Jingle]

I'm not gonna be able to post for about 12 hours. Try to do something that looks vaguely like scumhunting in the meantime, thread. I also promise to policy townread at least half of the players who are voting me at the end of that period.

[Jingle]

A Story Revisited

Votecount 3.8675309:


Varsoon (5): Northsidegal, Shiro, Creature, Porkens, Skygazer
Mastina (4): Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar
jjh927 (3): Nicorobin, Gamma Emerald,

Jingle

Jingle (1): jjh927,
Firebringer (1):

Mastina

Nicorobin (2):

Lady Angel

, Invisibility
Aristophanes (1): Chickadee
Porkens (1): Vecna
Vecna (0):
Northsidegal (0):
Chickadee (0):
Gamma Emerald (0):
Invisibility (0):
KuroiXHF (0):
Lady Angel: (0):
Whemestar (0):
Skygazer (0):
Creature (0):
Nero Cain (0):
The Meme Men (0):

Not Voting: Sora, Aristophanes, KuroiXHF

With 20 alive it's 11 to lynch.

The day will end in (expired on 2018-11-04 17:00:00).

UNVOTE:

Discounting additional hidden voting mechanics, if jj uses his power right now we literally cannot lynch anyone but Varsoon, and that would take unanimous agreement from everyone who is not voting.

Striked votes are blank unvotes, because they are theoretically still voting the person that they're on but want to be able to move.

[Jingle]

I forgot to move the NR wagon up to above mine, but that's a purely aesthetic mistake. If necessary, I can redo that for every five pages instead of the like 30 I just did.

[Jingle]

I want flips in this god damned game already.

Okay. You and kuroi are dead instead of pseudoconftown.

How are we in a better position than just assuming you're town?

[Jingle]

VOTE: jjh
For the shitty meme

[Jingle]

If anyone would like to unvote, I can keep this up with at least one VC per day. I'd prefer non bolded or tagged vote: player for my ease in keeping track of pseudovotes.

[Jingle]

Mastina (4): Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar

whats with you lamos who aren't on this.

I would force the no lynch over compromising there.

[Jingle]

So, yeah. Literally still at a the only possible lynch is Varsoon territory.

[Jingle]

1. Mastina has ruined nothing in this game.
2. Your wagon is a garbage policy lynch on an incredibly powerful role of a strong townread.
3. I would definitely compromise on lynching you.

[Jingle]

So... Your wagon is a shitty policy lynch by your own admission.

Disregarding that the entire point of having people claim is to not lynch potentially powerful roles, that doesn't argue against the whole strong townread point.

Yes, I'm going to freeze my vote to a smaller wagon than the one I just unvoted to be able to compromise lynch. That sounds super smart. And yes. I'm the one who is constantly complaining about how one player hasn't solved the entire game for them.

As for your evidence:

KuroiXHF (6): Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, jjh927, Innocent Children, Porkens, Mastina

Chickadee (7): Lady Angel, Mastina, Whemestar, KuroiXHF, Invisibility, jjh927, Gamma Emerald

Deadline No Lynches.

[Jingle]

So who has mastina 'cleared'
And why aren't those players dead from nightkills?
Do you people even stop to think
Do you?

Well, we're missing a Nightkill and the Night one kill was on a conftown via Desperado. So... that's a stupid question.

[Jingle]

All signs point to yes, Varsoon.

Also, if you unvote jj becomes a possible counterwagon to you.
If both you and FB unvote Nico also becomes a possible counterwagon.

[Jingle]

two options:
1) mastina is lying
2) mastina is scum and lying

1) You're kidding yourself.
2) I'm hard townreading mastina.
3) Mastina is town and abusing the role is the protown option.

Objectively, my proposed method from a full day phase ago is better than your shitty policy lynch.

[Jingle]

if i was rc i would regret a lot of design choices of this game tbh. which is why i think he is lacking in the modding part but that is pure speculation.

Yeah, I think he was rushed putting it together. He modconfirmed didn't have flavor for a No-Lynch.

[Jingle]

So this game was actually heavily flavour driven in its development and I... didn't write a no lynch flavor.

So I'm going to skip the NL flavor wise and start the flavor later.

A No Lynch has occurred!

The next day will start 12:00 AM EST on the 29th of September. Send in night actions before then!

[Jingle]

i think ur over focus on role interactions is ur blind spot jingle.

and if i was scum i could run circles around you easily by bullshitting roles to get you to do what i want.

My towngame, ranked in order of skill:

1. Setup.
2. Town Glue.
3. Town Leader.
4. Obvtowning.
5. Reads.

I'll own that. There are a handful of players I can read well consistently. The vast majority left the site a long time ago. I derptunnel on stupid all the time.

Mastina is possibly the only player on site that I know well enough to be this confident on who hasn't siteflaked. I literally can't remember the last time I misread mastina's play outside of GiF's fallout where I started out deathtunnelling her slot's previous occupant and then reversed my read just in time to be nightkilled. And yeah, even still, I'm planning around the cases where I'm wrong on someone who is so terrified of my ability at reading them that when ETL and I joined a game and randed town together they told the mod (also in this game) that scum literally had no chance.

As far as setup spec goes I don't mind claiming to be one of the best on the site. I'm not infallible. I'm not some magical god of breaking setups. But I'm damn good. And what I've argued is objectively the optimal town play from the information I've got.

[Jingle]

Since I've replaced in, though, every player's been so focused on the mechanics, mastina this, nico that and so it's been impossible for me to really engage without engaging there.
I dunno what to do to break free.

I can work with this.

First, unvote so that you're not literally the only viable lynch if jj uses his scumclaim ability.

Second, do you have any real townreads?

[Jingle]

5 clears then lynch mastina to confirm. If we get to a low number of players (13/14) with no scum lynched and less than 5 clears, lynch mastina anyway.

If scum shoots the clears, they're literally shooting in the pool of players we would have lynched anyway, while extending the viable use of mastina's role.
If scum shoots mastina, they've solved the contention and also confirmed the players in question.
If scum leaves that be, they've given us a townfirm pool that takes us to ridiculous levels of game solve.
If mastina is scum, we lynch her before we're close to worried about endgame AND there is presumably some amount of hidden power that town has to catch the other scum in the meantime. Given that there is no reason for claims, there's no chance that scum can use said claims to narrow down and eliminate townpower prematurely.

It's not complicated. It's not holding the thread hostage. It requires nothing more than not quickhammering. Incredibly high town EV.

[Jingle]

Of those, Kuroi is replacing. Nero, Creature (new Nos) and I have given full reads lists, so looking at those and seeing where you agree and disagree is probably a good starting place. Additionally, Chick is a 'clear', so it's probably worth looking at her reads as well.

Of the players you aren't townreading, FB and mastina are the only really active posters. (Holy shit, we have like 6 active posters out of 20.) Why aren't you townreading them? Should you be if they are town?

Of the non active players, which ones do you expect to be active as town?

[Jingle]

5 clears then lynch mastina to confirm. If we get to a low number of players (13/14) with no scum lynched and less than 5 clears, lynch mastina anyway.

If scum shoots the clears, they're literally shooting in the pool of players we would have lynched anyway, while extending the viable use of mastina's role.
If scum shoots mastina, they've solved the contention and also confirmed the players in question.
If scum leaves that be, they've given us a townfirm pool that takes us to ridiculous levels of game solve.
If mastina is scum, we lynch her before we're close to worried about endgame AND there is presumably some amount of hidden power that town has to catch the other scum in the meantime. Given that there is no reason for claims, there's no chance that scum can use said claims to narrow down and eliminate townpower prematurely.

It's not complicated. It's not holding the thread hostage. It requires nothing more than not quickhammering. Incredibly high town EV.

So what if Mastina's scum and it's just a regular gladiate and not alignment-based at all?

We have whatever other power town has to make up for all of the negative and proscum utility we've seen, we have a guaranteed scumlynch, we have a shitton of wagon information to analyze, and we still have several mislynches.

[Jingle]

FWIW, from not my perspective I'm the optimal clear.

Confirming town me confirms the presence of a loud doc in the game.

[Jingle]

Sounds like you have a pretty good set of suspects to take a closer look at. Sounds like you have a pretty good set of townreads you can engage with over differences in opinion. Sounds like you have a pretty solid starting place for getting your head into the game.

And everyone else, the same process applies to you as well.

Additionally, if you're still worried that I'm just taking things for granted, allow me to share with you how deep the Jingle paranoia train goes. I'm seriously considering a possible balance solution of 6 godfathers and what town would need to have to counter that. Despite that, I haven't found a potential scumteam that my plan isn't decently equipped to fight (at least better than not following it) that isn't better served by already messing with the chain of clears.

And to be clear, I expect a single godfather out of this setup if my finger is on the pulse halfway as well as I think it is.

[Jingle]

And also it would generate a bunch of thread apathy, prove my point about this being a scum use of your power and remove
Any reason for half of the player list to contribute today!

It’s a win/win in that the scumteam wins regardless of who they are!

[Jingle]

We gain nothing over using the gladiate, unless you think NR is a triplevoting rolecopping godfather of the same scumteam as mastina.

[Jingle]

You remember majoras mask where the moon is dropping out of the sky angrily? It’s kinda like that, but the moon has jjs face.

[Jingle]

Can we not talk about not mafia games things. This thread is clogged enough as is.

[Jingle]

Yup, varsoons ability should be used to lynch vizzy the next time we have a successful gladiate.

[Jingle]

Because I believe you are a protown lynch regardless of your alignment.

[Jingle]

FWIW, from not my perspective I'm the optimal clear.

Confirming town me confirms the presence of a loud doc in the game.

The mechanical implications of that are really weird though:
-Why have a town mastina-role and a town loud-doc in the same setup? Extremely broken at face value
-If the last point is still true; why have scum not used the power that can offset that balance to kill Mastina last night?
-Why on earth was this loud doc on you?

Leads me strongly to believe that one of several of the following has to be true:
-Either Mastina or the loud doc have to be scum
-Or scum was not trying to kill JJH but Mastina last night, and this is a scum jingle rolefishing.....
-Or scum decided to not kill Mastina, or any of her clears, to raise suspicion and mount a massive lynch attempt on Mastina today
-Or scum has a watcher-type role that is meant for them to eliminate any protectives on Mastina

1) Stop beating a dead horse. Tell me why I'm wrong, succinctly, or STFU. Nobody town wants another 10 pages of mechanical discussion.
2) Useless speculation is useless.
3) The least town question a player can ask in a game. This is literally blatant doc hunting, and people are somehow townreading him.

[Jingle]

Vecna fakeclaimed IC.

Since then, he's been proven to be a flavorconfirming fruit vendor. He claims that anyone targeting him at night will receive a flavor message.

[Jingle]

hard to get to any treshold

This is actually a good point.

We should probably change the votecount method to suit the fact that we have a large number of players and a low number of flips.

I propose we use a Unlimited Voting setup. If you think someone is a good gladiate target, put them in a list of gladiate targets. I will collect and collate this information so that it's in one ISO.

I'm reading everything so formatting isn't super important, but if you'd like to use hurt tags it'll make things easier.

That way, we can have a faster consensus on who to gladiate.

Current Player list is as follows:

1) The MEME Men

Rylai and Lina (Frozen Angel & Shiro)

2) Northsidegal

Innocent Children (Nancy Drew 39 & Disquieted)

3) Firebringer

Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)

4) Nicorobin
5) Mastina
6) Gamma Emerald
7) Chickadee
8) Skygazer
9) Varsoon

Titus

10)

KuroiXHF

11) Invisibility
12) Porkens
13) Whemestar
14) Vecna
15) Lady Angel
18) Jingle

Ginngie

19) Nero Cain
20) Creature

Nosferatu

21) jjh927
22) Aristophanes

randomidget

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 1:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Varsoon: (8) Jingle, Northsidegal, Creature, Porkens, Skygazer, Meme Men, Varsoon, Chickadee
Nicorobin: (5) Jingle, Invisibility, Lady Angel, Vecna, Whemestar
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Invisibility
Northsidegal: (2) Jingle, Meme Men
Firebringer: (2) Jingle, Mastina
Porkens: (2) Jingle, Vecna
Vecna: (2) Jingle, Invisibility
Lady Angel: (2) Jingle, Skygazer
Jingle: (2) JJH, Invisibility
jjh927: (2) Jingle, Nicorobin
The MEME Men: (1) Jingle
Gamma Emerald: (1) Jingle
Skygazer: (1) Jingle
Invisibility: (0)
Whemestar: (0)
Nero Cain:
Creature:
Threshold reduction:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: Aristophanes, KuroiXHF

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists (in Wheme's case), assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated. If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

[Jingle]

Beat you by a post jingle

Yeah, but mine was prettier.

[Jingle]

Mastina gave scum reasoning that roughly equates to "He's disengaged" and he's become a bit of a consensus wagon. His approach to finding a town oriented use of his power seemed town to me, the lack of reads seemed scum. I'm willing to confirm the resulting null read through the use of a gladiate.

[Jingle]

I went back 50 pages and ignored unvotes. Also I did a couple of reads lists but not all of them.

[Jingle]

If you want my top three, btw, it's HURT: Vecna, JJ, NR

[Jingle]

Should be fine, LA.

I'm not limiting mine to 3, so I'll just add vecna on for yours, Viz.

Hurt tag code is:

Code: Select all

[hurt]Playername[/hurt]

Heal tag code is:

Code: Select all

[heal]Playername[/heal]

In case anyone wants to know.

[Jingle]

Not sure how Invis got to friendly neighbor.

Vecna theoretically is claiming only flavor confirmation. He has claimed there is more to his role, but hasn't specified what it is. I don't want him to do so, because if he becomes conftown I frankly don't care.

Also, for jj's list purposes,

HEAL: Vecna
HURT: Firebringer

Not townreading Vec, just like FB less from reading through for reads.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 2:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Varsoon: (9) Jingle, Northsidegal, Creature, Porkens, Skygazer, Meme Men, Varsoon, Chickadee, Mastina
Nicorobin: (6) Jingle, Invisibility, Lady Angel,

Vecna

, Whemestar, Varsoon,
Jingle: (5) JJH, Invisibility, Jingle, Creature, Nero Cain
Vecna: (4) Jingle, Invisibility, Varsoon, Creature
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Invisibility
Northsidegal: (3) Jingle, Meme Men, Chickadee
Firebringer: (3) Jingle, Mastina, Creature
Lady Angel: (3) Jingle, Skygazer, Mastina
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Nicorobin, Lady Angel
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (2) Jingle, Vecna
Gamma Emerald: (1) Jingle
Skygazer: (1) Jingle
Nero Cain: (1) Varsoon
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: Aristophanes, KuroiXHF

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated. If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

I have added more subjective information, so please double check where your votes are.

[Jingle]

Alignment wise. You're at least top three pirate themed growlithes in this thread personality wise.

[Jingle]

You bolded a challenge for mastina to gladiate you ~20 pages ago, Varsoon. That'd be the "subjective sources" bit I'm warning people about.

Also, noted Porkens.

[Jingle]

I'm going to assume from context you no longer want yourself gladiated, btw.

[Jingle]

Jingle, please remove the information that you gathered from posts, and only count actual hurt tags here. I want to know the actual score on Varsoon now that people have to take a stance. I want to know who is ignoring this NR thing. The varsoon number is hyper-inflated, with at least people like Porkens not being willing to take a stance and some other votes that are not actually there.

I'm not going to do this en masse, because to be honest it's a lot of work and I don't see a point to doing it when it's easy enough to just edit the VC whenever someone says they no longer want to be voting for someone. The Varsoon wagon being inflated problem is going away slowly as people come into the thread and talk though, so...

For transparency, the sources I used were:

Direct calls for someone to be gladiated.
Reads lists in which someone was called scum and which were not later redacted. (For example, Chick called you scum, but later said you needed to be moved to the town pile)
Votes
Votes that were later Unvoted because of the jjh thing.

As far as the NR being a good gladiate target post, I agree with you. Note, she is the only one of my townreads I support gladiating.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 3:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Jingle: (9) JJH, Invisibility, Jingle, Creature, Nero Cain, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon
Varsoon: (8) Jingle, Northsidegal, Creature, Skygazer, Meme Men, Chickadee, Mastina, Nico Robin
Nicorobin: (7) Jingle, Invisibility, Lady Angel,

Vecna

, Whemestar, Varsoon, Aristophanes
Vecna: (5) Jingle, Invisibility, Varsoon, Creature, Aristophanes
Aristophanes: (4) Chickadee, JJH, Invisibility, Meme Men
Northsidegal: (4) Jingle, Meme Men, Chickadee, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Jingle, Mastina, Creature
Lady Angel: (3) Jingle, Skygazer, Mastina
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Nicorobin, Lady Angel
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Vecna, Nico Robin
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men
Skygazer: (1) Jingle
Nero Cain: (1) Varsoon
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

[Jingle]

As far as the NR being a good gladiate target post, I agree with you. Note, she is the only one of my townreads I support gladiating.

Checkmate Jingle scumreads himself

Huh, legitimately forgot I was voting myself.

I'm not gonna change that because I AM a good gladiate target.

I'll do the bold next VC, but I'm trying to limit it to one per page.

[Jingle]

Oh, NR should be one higher. I somehow missed jj’s vote.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 3:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Varsoon, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Jingle: (9) JJH, Invisibility, Jingle, Creature, Nero Cain, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon
Varsoon: (8) Jingle, Northsidegal, Creature, Skygazer, Meme Men, Chickadee, Mastina, Nico Robin
Nicorobin: (8) Jingle, Invisibility, Lady Angel,

Vecna

, Whemestar, Varsoon, Aristophanes,

jjh

Vecna: (5) Jingle, Invisibility, Varsoon, Creature, Aristophanes
Aristophanes: (4) Chickadee, JJH, Invisibility, Meme Men
Northsidegal: (4) Jingle, Meme Men, Chickadee, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Jingle, Mastina, Creature
Lady Angel: (3) Jingle, Skygazer, Mastina
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Nicorobin, Lady Angel
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Vecna, Nico Robin
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men
Skygazer: (1) Jingle
Nero Cain: (1) Varsoon
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Fixed.

[Jingle]

Specifically lynching her is a bad idea, unless it turns out this is indeed a 1v1.

Gladiating her is actually a great idea. Be an went over why I think, but I can if necessary.

[Jingle]

Vecna, not be an. Stupid phone.

[Jingle]

I'm sorry. I'm fluent in neither bad photoshop or Japanese comics.

Have you considered Kenny Rogers covers?

[Jingle]

Over 3 days since her last post

Dammit Jim, I'm a votecount-generator not a moderator. I can't be expected to perform prods as well!

[Jingle]

I assure you it's fuckin hilarious and highly relevant

Spoiler: Kenny Rogers More Relevant

[Jingle]

That's actually a good question. Best I can tell I accidentally put your vote for NSG onto me. I'll fix it in the next VC, which will probably be in about an hour.

[Jingle]

Ooooh. I should add post tags for all of it. That should help me find any more mistakes.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 4:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon
Varsoon: (8) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin
Nicorobin: (8) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Vecna: (5) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes
Northsidegal: (4) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men,
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (1) Jingle,
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Links added and votes moved to be roughly chronological. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added/removed.

[Jingle]

@mod: mastina has been due a prod for 42 hours. Also, where are we at on the Kuroi replacement.

[Jingle]

Look, hard truth time.

Do you guys actually want to continue playing this game?

I am committed. I'm here until game end or I die. If no one WANTS to play, that's fine. We can chalk this one up to a UPick taken by too many replacements. Hell with the trouble RC's already had with replacements and keeping up with the game, I doubt he'd be too upset to be able to call it himself.

But as long as I'm here, playing this game, I'm going to do whatever I can to give town the best chance to win. I'm going to do my best to fight the thread apathy and get things moving. But I'm not going to give up on winning in order to do so.

Let's look at where we actually are right now. I'm at L-1. A single vote from being hammered. We're stuck waiting on replacements, sure, but that doesn't really change much. Kuroi has needed replacement for 5 days. A bunch of people either don't want to play this game or are at a high risk for replacement anyway. We have 187 pages of information, and yet there are still people who have a suspicious lack of suspicion of anything in their ISO's.

If we're not going to play mafia, then let's not drag this shit out. If you want the game called, I suggest PM'ing the mod about it. Because besides this post, there's literally nothing I can do.

Thanks man, sorry the setup has been so replacement heavy. FWIW, I don't blame you.

[Jingle]

Spoiler: Gender Identity Off Topic

Consider that [redacted] flipped out when I called them by wrong pronoun ONCE, not multiple times, your 'analysis' is wrong.

To be honest, I DON'T get the whole gender identity thing. I accidentally misgender people all the time because to me the whole thing is kind of a nonissue. I think that the modern tendency to want to put ourselves in little boxes, both in a sense of gender identity and in a sense of race, religion, etc. is backwards and divisive. People are people. No more, no less. I have yet to meet the person who can be summed up by their gender, or their race, or their religion.

With that said, I'm aware that it matters to some people. And if I misgender those people and they get offended, I will apologize for offending them. Because while it isn't important to me, it is important to them. I can't promise them I'm going to get their gender right all of the time, because the sad fact is I might make the mistake again. But I can apologize and move on.

And in my mind, refusing to accept that apology when genuinely given or refusing to give the apology in the first place are just being an asshole. Saying that you're sorry and moving on isn't hard. And if it is hard, maybe the solution is just to stop engaging with the person making you mad enough that you can't treat them with dignity.

I'm no saint. In fact, most people who know me would argue I'm a bit of an ass. There are people I despise, who I know I can't have a civil conversation with. There are people I admire that I can't have a civil conversation with. But I believe that everyone, without exception, deserves to be treated with dignity, even though I can't follow through on that myself sometimes, and that the only thing you can do is try.

And now I'm done waxing philosophical on the internet in a game about murdering people.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 5:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Nero Cain, Whemestar

Eligible Players

Jingle: L-1 (10) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (8) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin
Vecna: (5) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (4) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (1) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Links added and votes moved to be roughly chronological. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added/removed.

[Jingle]

Tomorrow, assuming nothing dramatic happens, I think we should take a hard look at GE, Sky, Fire, and NSG.

Also, I think the overlap and lack of overlap between the top three wagons is worth exploring. Today we should probably just gladiate me and be done with it. If someone would care to hammer, we can get this show on the road as soon as mastina gets into the thread.

[Jingle]

Like if that was any other combination Jingle would be aiming to lynch mastina
But he’s not because that hurts his chances of winning

[Jingle]

TBF, Vizzy has been engaging much more than GE, Sky, Fire, and NSG combined.

[Jingle]

Change those numbers from 15/16 and I’d be pretty okay with this tbh

Missed this.

You realize, that if scum doesn't target within the pool of clears, we lynch mastina at 18 players alive under my plan, right? The low numbers are because scum would be giving us a reason to keep mastina alive by shooting the people who are heavily scumread.

[Jingle]

Well, excluding the chance that we hit a scumlynch. But if we hit a scumlynch, that's just as good as scum shooting in the players we would have lynched anyway, so... Pretty much a moot point.

[Jingle]

Oh, and FWIW, I'm happy to continue playing as well.

But we've been pending a replacement for five days, there's a good chance mastina is on her way out the door as a replacement given our prod rules, and Meme Men just put a 48 hour clock on replacing out. Facts is facts.

[Jingle]

Because mastina isn't the origin of the apathy. Complaints about mastina are the origin of the apathy.

Note, we're not even using normal lynch mechanics and we still can't get more than 50% percent of the players to agree on someone worth lynching. Neither of the first two lynches would have gone through. We never hit majority.

[Jingle]

I gave those numbers because I didn’t want mastina to be set up as game losing mislynch

13 alive, lynch mastina, 11 alive at the beginning of the next dayphase.

For this to be a game losing myslynch we A. Have to have more than 5 scum. B. Have to have missed scum on 7 consecutive lynches. C. Have to have a scumteam who is literally chasing the innocents mastina gives us around and bopping them with the scumkill every night. AND D. Have to have had 0 successful uses of the protective roles we know to exist.

How is fear of this scenario reasonable?

[Jingle]

Then she's scum and literally can't be the game ending mislynch.

If she's scum, scum is still nightkilling in the players we would have lynched anyway to keep her alive past 17/18 unless we're actively lynching scum. If she's scum we literally can't lose by lynching her at 13 players alive. If she's scum, GE's worries are... Not worries at all.

[Jingle]

If she's realclaiming the loyal, and has exclusively targeted scum, we have 2 immediate guilties after she dies which is still at 17 players alive at the latest.

If she's realclaiming as town and the investigates are on scum, then both Chick and Kuroi are godfathers. Chick, specifically would have to be an unlimited day fruitvendor godfather, and kuroi would have to be a godfather with whatever additional power he supposedly has. In which case, either the setup is hideously scumsided or we have some manner of catching multiple godfathers that has yet to be claimed and we've been manipulated into targeting only godfathers, which means we have wagon information to parse.

If she's fakeclaiming as scum, that's literally the point of lynching her once she builds up a decent pool of clears. Scum has to choose between shooting the people we would've lynched anyway or letting mastina build her pool and then dying early. Both of which are in our best interest as town.

[Jingle]

You should probably just gladiate me, given ~48 hours til deadline and me being at L-1 Gladiate wise, mastina.

[Jingle]

Oh. 90 hours til deadline, thought that was closer.

My point stands.

[Jingle]

Either the scumteam is shooting people we would have lynched anyway (the gladiate targets) or she dies at 18 players alive. That's the 5 clears part of my plan. Given that the setup is confirmed to be either 5 or 6 scum, I'm really not concerned either way.

[Jingle]

Because, if we have a pool of 5 conftown at 17 players alive and a doctor, town is pretty damn far ahead.

If scum are exclusively shooting in the players we would have lynched anyway, town is pretty damn far ahead because we functionally control the nightkill.

And all of this is assuming that mastina doesn't manage to hit scum, in which case we have scumlynches, or that our doc stops nightkills.

[Jingle]

Even if the complaints are the true origin, do you know what happens when mastina is Lynched? Those complaints can’t be made any more, as mastina is gone. So anyone who continues fostering apathy is very likely scum.

Do I have to explain why "We should lynch X because Y and Z are complaining about X" is possibly the stupidest policy lynch idea I've ever heard?

[Jingle]

If mastina is a vanilla scum gladiator, then scum have to kill the people we have pseudocleared to prevent the pool of clears from reaching the threshold of 5. Let's look at tonight.

I'm cleared, Chick is cleared, Kuroi is cleared. Scum to prevent the number of mastina clears growing to 4 has to kill one of the three of us. If any of us is scum, they're automatically out of contention. Presumably, scum is going to want to target the most town of the three of us. Note, we also have a doctor operating under the assumption that we're conftown, so any of the three of us is likely to be protected as well.

If scum shoots outside of that pool OR fails to kill their intended target, we get another clear. That's 4. Now scum has to kill one of the four, or any successful gladiate by mastina hits the threshold of 5 and mastina gets lynched. So in order for scum mastina to survive three more dayphases, scum has to shoot within the pool of players who were suspicious enough to be lynched in the first place. Which is... leashing the scumkill.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 6:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Nero Cain, Whemestar, Gamma Emerald

Eligible Players

Jingle: L-1 (10) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (8) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin
Vecna: (5) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (4) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (1) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Links added and votes moved to be roughly chronological. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added/removed.

[Jingle]

Creature is the only pre hurt-tags vote on me who has not confirmed he'd still like to see me gladiated explicitly.

Also, Vecna should be 6, NSG 5, and Skygazer 2. I'm not putting up a new VC to fix that, because the names to the right are all correct, I just didn't adjust the numbers apparently.

Dammit, I wish I could edit posts here.

[Jingle]

From the replacements, Jingle

I uh... I'm not sure why NR would fear me.

Unless you've been going around and spreading stories of my awesomeness again.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 7:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Nero Cain, Whemestar, Gamma Emerald

Eligible Players

Jingle: (9) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (9) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin, Vecna
Vecna: (6) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (5) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (2) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Links added and votes moved to be roughly chronological. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added/removed.

[Jingle]

None.

The issue isn't with mod action you've taken/haven't taken. The issue is that it's going to be incredibly difficult to find 3 replacements for a 200 page game with 20 living players, especially considering the number of previous replacements. I'm down to keep trying as long as everyone else is though; I just wanted to address the elephant in the room that it's probably going to get worse before it gets better.

[Jingle]

But they're not 'clears', Jingle. Oh nooo scum eventually hits 5 people in the 'pseudoclear' pile before mastina, who has to eat a lynch before the end of this game, does so.

I agree that we're in a better situation if mastina is town than if she's scum. I'm also townreading her.

The point of the leashed scumkill bit is that we're not in a bad place if I'm wrong. If I'm wrong, and mastina is scum, there is at the most two more nightkills outside of the pool of players that get run up to lynch. Two.

And I've been through this entire argument like 4 or 5 times since replacing in, so if anyone else would like to ask all of these questions maybe just read my ISO next time.

[Jingle]

Ari at least is V/LA.

I've explained multiple times why it's low risk high reward. If you'd like to tell me how early consecutive no lynching in a role madness game is high risk, we can talk. Otherwise, engaging with the same unsupported statement over and over is STILL just empty noise that contributes to thread clog.

[Jingle]

Cool. And the fact that town hasn't managed to come to a single lynch consensus this game is also mastina's fault?

You're still ignoring the facts that the lack of mindblowing cases and the lack of sorting are in no way mastina's sole fault. They're the fault of the playerlist as a whole.

There aren't cases? Make some. There isn't sorting? Sort people.

You're blaming problems on this role, but not doing anything to solve the problem yourself.

And, to talk about a lack of cases:

Me. Nico Robin. Vecna. Varsoon. NSG.

None of those are something you weighed in on, but they are all cases.

[Jingle]

So... Your wagon is a shitty policy lynch by your own admission.

Disregarding that the entire point of having people claim is to not lynch potentially powerful roles, that doesn't argue against the whole strong townread point.

Yes, I'm going to freeze my vote to a smaller wagon than the one I just unvoted to be able to compromise lynch. That sounds super smart. And yes. I'm the one who is constantly complaining about how one player hasn't solved the entire game for them.

As for your evidence:

KuroiXHF (6): Gamma Emerald, Nosferatu, jjh927, Innocent Children, Porkens, Mastina

Chickadee (7): Lady Angel, Mastina, Whemestar, KuroiXHF, Invisibility, jjh927, Gamma Emerald

Deadline No Lynches.

[Jingle]

Let's policy lynch mastina for not solving all of the world's problems.

Trying to argue with mastina here over game theory is even less useful than trying to convince whichever ones of the "Let's lynch mastina" proponents are town that they're being idiots.

And yes. Because we have wagons to analyze. We have stances that we can hold people accountable for. Just because people AREN'T looking at them, doesn't mean they're not there.

[Jingle]

Mastina gladiated in both cases with less than 48 hours on the clock. The first 'wagon' was at L-6. The second was at L-4. Neither of those were healthy wagons. Look at the posting around them. Both were plagued by "Why are we lynching here?" They were shit lynches on what is presumably town. There were no real counterwagons.

[Jingle]

seems like a scum attempt to smear more people that have been wrong.

This is literally the first reasonable stance you've taken today.

And I disagree that being able to hold people accountable for their reads is scummy. How the fuck do you catch scum if not by judging what people say and do?

[Jingle]

But we're not judging them based on that. That's literally the whole point. If there were pushes being made, the days would go faster and the gladiates would come more frequently. I was at L-1 for maybe two pages. I advocated my own hammer. It didn't come. That is the only L-1 wagon that has happened so far this game.

Literally the only one.

I'm not the one saying there's no information to go on. I'm the one saying no one is doing anything with that information, and putting all of our eggs in the mastina hipfiring basket doesn't solve that problem. Lynching mastina for not hipfiring ALSO doesn't solve that problem. And it can't possibly just be scum that aren't doing anything with that information, because it's more than 6 people who are doing it.

[Jingle]

jingle i don't get why you want to just defend mastina for all of this. mastina has a role that drastically alters the game state. So when mastina comes in here and says "this isn't my fault this is everyone eles fault for game state" its a load of horse shit. She has control over game state that we don't have and undo anything we do.

its like say you were in a court room. you knew full well you can participate in the court and potentially make a brilliant case that helps you out but a person can undo everything you do and overturns it in a instant to proceed in a way they want. Do you want to participate knowing this?

Do you want to participate after seeing and being apart of that? No? Wow. I guess your the problem.

So the problem is that mastina could use her role in a way that demotivates you, so you're not going to play the game. And so you're going to policy lynch her because she's not using her role in the way that demotivates you. Your logic is impeccable.

Mafia is literally built around 2 fucking actionable mechanics
1. An uninformed majority votes for lynches to try to eliminate scum.
2. An informed minority kills town to try to eliminate them.

That's it.
Any setup that breaks that CORE DYNAMIC of the game fails to be a mafia setup.
Playing in a way that's contrary to that CORE DYNAMIC is outright bad play that is far more likely to lose the game and ruin its integrity than to provide reliable results.

I'm cool with playing along with the whole gladiate garbage gambit, whatever.
What I'm not cool with is ending the day on another No Lynch after 200 fucking pages and nearly two months.

Does there exist a context in which town should No Lynch or scum should No Kill?
Sure.
Yes.
Absolutely.
It's super fringe and unlikely to happen in any game that's actually well designed, using normal roles and balance and an odd number of starting players, but there are situations where it could be a more effective strategy than outright lynching or killing.
But never, ever in a closed setup, especially a non-normal role-madness closed setup.
Like what the fuck
How do you not get this
How does anyone not get this

Fuck right the fuck off.

Like, take that high horse and shove it up your ass.

There are objectively situations in which it is better to No Lynch. For example, follow the cop. If town can recognize a correct sequence of roles that increase their odds of winning by working together, then they should do so. It's not morally wrong to attempt to use all of your tools to win the game, it's playing the fucking game.

The ability to recognize when No Lynching or Massclaiming is useful as opposed to harmful is a skill, and saying otherwise is an insult to the people who use that skill.

I enjoy putting the little pieces together, solving the puzzle, and squeezing the value out of the roles. If a No Lynch is part of that, I'm going to No Lynch, or at least argue for it.

To say that the way I play mafia is worse than the way you play mafia is conceited and insulting. To say that it's not mafia is insulting. To say that any setups that are breakable are badly designed is disgusting. If you want to balance your games around enforcing a lynch, then good for you, you can do that. If you want to come into other games and say "What you're doing is morally wrong and you shouldn't be allowed to play that way" you're prioritizing your ability to have fun over mine. I'm going to argue what I believe to be the best path to victory. If you don't want to, bully for you. But don't come in here and shove "You're not playing the game the right way" down my throat.

[Jingle]

Cool. Vote to gladiate me or convince enough people to vote me for a real lynch.

[Jingle]

Jingle
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna
Mastina

The MEME Men
Northsidegal
Firebringer
Nicorobin
Gamma Emerald
Invisibility
Porkens
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Nero Cain
Creature
jjh927
Aristophanes

Claim votes for EoD yesterday in your next post.

Varsoon.

Also, it's really cool how instead of not sheeping dead players, you guys are sheeping dead scum. It definitely sounds like a great idea.

VOTE: Firebringer

[Jingle]

I was on Mastina

Also, Jingle, minus the pseudo-conf-towns I could almost literally flip your list and be okay with it.

You realize that's actually just the list of players with myself and the pseudoconftown separated out for my own reference, right?

[Jingle]

[quote="In post 4914, Jingle"]Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V

The MEME Men - V
Northsidegal - V
Firebringer - M
Nicorobin
Gamma Emerald - FB
Invisibility
Porkens
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Nero Cain
Creature
jjh927
Aristophanes - M

We're missing 8 claims. Also, I guess Vecna should probably confirm that he did in fact vote V.

[Jingle]

Cool. Who did you vote yesterday?

[Jingle]

Oh, btw. I'd appreciate it if you'd keep the thing under your hat for a while. It's kinda useful if scum don't know.

[Jingle]

There’s also 2 votes that’ll be missing, 1 assured to not be on V

1 actually.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Firebringer

[Jingle]

Also, if it takes you 5 minutes to read that this is probably the wrong hobby for you.

[Jingle]

i am tired and going to sleep. when i wake i am going to spam lots of walls of text.

just for u jingle.

I'd like to point out that you're reinforcing my read that lynching you is literally the best chance town has for victory, regardless of your alignment.

[Jingle]

But still policy lynching her for holding the game hostage and being a general nuisance

id like to point out ur a hypocrite.

[Jingle]

i am tired and going to sleep. when i wake i am going to spam lots of walls of text.

i can't hold the game hostage

[Jingle]

No, I want to wait for the rest of the town to come in and claim their votes. I'd like to scumhunt and gamesolve.

What I'd rather not have to deal with is someone making the thread unreadable during that process. If you're not scum, you're doing a hell of a job playing to their win condition. Especially when the reason they're doing so is subjectively breaking site rules.

[Jingle]

No, I want to wait for the rest of the town to come in and claim their votes. I'd like to scumhunt and gamesolve.

What I'd rather not have to deal with is someone making the thread unreadable during that process. If you're not scum, you're doing a hell of a job playing to their win condition. Especially when the reason you're doing so is subjectively breaking site rules.

[Jingle]

sorry, FTFM.

[Jingle]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V

The MEME Men - V
Northsidegal - V
Firebringer - M
Nicorobin - V
Gamma Emerald - FB
Invisibility
Porkens
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Nero Cain
Creature
jjh927
Aristophanes - M

We're missing 7 claims. Also, I guess Vecna should probably confirm that he did in fact vote V.

[Jingle]

I think Jingle just claimed scum

-rh

BTW:

No, I didn't. But the fact you think I might have means you're probably town and when the claiming process is finished I can explain why.

[Jingle]

GE 90% town.

[Jingle]

NR 70% town.

[Jingle]

LA probscum.

[Jingle]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V?
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - V?
Porkens - V?
Creature - M?
Firebringer - M
Invisibility -
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V?
Lady Angel -

This is roughly reads order.

Dead Men What Can't Tell Tales:

Varsoon
Chick
Skygazer

[Jingle]

Wait, how did I suddenly become a townread? I probably know the answer, but I still would like to hear it from you.

You were solely responsible for the 'soon self destruction and lynch, in a way that did not have an additional purpose as scum.

[Jingle]

I have not been informed who my door voted for yesterday during the Nocturne ultimate.

Don't bother asking, it's actually public knowledge for those paying attention.

[Jingle]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - NSG
Porkens - V?
Creature - M
Firebringer - M
Invisibility - NR
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V
Lady Angel -

This is roughly reads order.

Dead Men What Can't Tell Tales:

Varsoon
Chick
Skygazer

I need confirmation from Porkens and claims from Wheme and LA before I can explain why this is useful.

[Jingle]

Oh, btw. I totally didn't act last night because nihilism.

[Jingle]

Also, there is definitely a second post restriction based role in the game.

[Jingle]

I think we should go right back to hurtcounts tbh

Soon. Soon.

[Jingle]

You could always have done your whole rolecop thing and I'd have 100% given it you even though you're scum because I've already fullclaimed but w/e

Also lies. I received nothing in my inbox despite targeting you.

Oh you're claiming your action failed completely here?

Actually, it didn't. The mod was just late in giving me the info. :/

Wait, are you saying that you intended to target jj and the previous conversation wasn't some kind of reaction test?

[Jingle]

Waiting to hear back from RC when he has time.

Also, sorry for being a PITA RC, I know I've had a lot of questions.

I should be back tomorrow to explain shit. Possibly late tonight. Hopefully we have the last few claims by then. I *might* explain before the claims because there is a slight possibility I'll need to be force replaced/modkilled based on one of my questions. I can't/won't explain why in case it would compromise the game.

[Jingle]

No, not role claims.

Claims of who you voted for in paranoia.

[Jingle]

Sorry, that's my bad.

[Jingle]

Subtext, jj. I got rolecopped and gave consent.

I even subtly asked NR not to share her results with the thread, because there is some, if slight, utility in keeping the specifics of my role hidden from the thread at large. If/when I flip that should make more sense. The idea that rolecopping me was unintentional and she meant to rolecop you actually strengthens my townread there.

[Jingle]

Who did you vote yesterday.

[Jingle]

Jingle - V
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna - V
Mastina - V
Gamma Emerald - FB

Nicorobin - V
The MEME Men - V
Nero Cain - NSG
Porkens - V?
Creature - M
Firebringer - M
Invisibility - NR
Aristophanes - M
Whemestar -
Northsidegal - V
jjh927 - V
Lady Angel - V

Okay, so the reason this is important, is because as people flip we can put things together.

Varsoon - (10)

Jingle, Vecna, Mastina,

NicoRobin, Meme Men, Porkens, NSG, JJ, Lady Angel,

Chickadee

Mastina - (3) Creature, Firebringer, Aristophanes
Nico - (1) Vizzy
NSG - (1) Nero
Gamma - (1) FB
Didn't vote- Adalbert Steiner, Skygazer

5 Scum, none of which would have voted for Varsoon. All of which had the opportunity to vote anonymously, and thus would have chosen whoever was most likely to be a viable mislynch. If mastina is town, that's mastina. That means, at most, the Varsoon wagon can have had 3 people claiming to be on it as scum, mathematically. Additionally, people who weren't voting Varsoon, or who were voting mastina, etc. can be asked to justify their votes.

You may have noted that Chick is presumed to be on the Varsoon wagon. That's because that is the possibility that gives scum the least opportunity to manipulate the information later.

Skygazer and Adalbert on the other hand were both pending replacement, so neither could have voted.

[Jingle]

@RC: When it is convenient could you respond to my PM? TIA

[Jingle]

HurtCount 4.1:

Ineligible Players:

Adalbert:
Mastina: (5) Firebringer, Creature, Meme Men, Adalbert Steiner, Aristophanes

Eligible Players

Firebringer: (4) Vecna, Lady Angel, Jingle, Mastina
Nicorobin: (2) Invisibility, JJH
Northsidegal: (1) Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (1) NSG
jjh927: (1) Porkens
Jingle: (0)
Vecna: (0)
Lady Angel: (0)
The MEME Men: (0)
Whemestar: (0)
Porkens: (0)
Gamma Emerald: (0)
Nero Cain: (0)
Invisibility: (0)
Creature: (0)

With 17 alive, 9 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

At the moment, this doubles as an up to date VC.

[Jingle]

@Meme/Ari: Why did you vote Varsoon instead of mastina? Why are you voting mastina now?
@Gamma: Why did you vote Firebringer? Why aren't you voting mastina?

Also, Creature, the strong townread on GE was to bait more people into fakeclaiming off of the two big wagons if scum, to increase the odds that this would be useful.

[Jingle]

Nero, same question as Meme and Ari.

[Jingle]

I voted Fire because I felt like it was the most sure lead I had
And why should I be voting mastina?

@Gamma- Because you were yesterday. You also weren't voting Firebringer yesterday, despite having unlimited votes, for the hurtcount. Please explain how they were your most certain read?

@Ari- Ah, you are correct sir. I did misread. I'm still flabbergasted that you're voting for exactly the same reasons as Varsoon, but we can burn that bridge when we get there.

@Meme- That's at least a rational reason, if a bad one. If a wagon is likely to hit scum will you switch?

[Jingle]

@RC: When it is convenient could you respond to my PM? TIA

he didn’t reply to mine either. It’s been so long ago though, I don’t even recall what I pmed him about

I don't think I've ever been in a game that tested my patience so much as this one has, and still is.

-LH

Considering mine contains: “I think I might need to be force replaced for game integrity, could you look into that”
I’m pretty focused on it.

[Jingle]

If I suddenly disappear from the face of the earth, you can all assume that RC had me assassinated.

[Jingle]

If you get a damning result on mastina I will 100% agree that the only lynches on the table are you and mastina.

I'm pretty sure that mastina is town from the way Varsoon's self destruction played out.

And those posts relate to me not understanding the theory how???

Basically the theory boils down to: the combination of those claims and future flips will vastly narrow the PoE pool of people who could be scum in later portions of the game. It's actually not super useful premastina flip, but presumably by the end of the game we will have enough information to make it VERY useful.
Additionally, people who claim to have voted people other than the people they were suspecting are interesting and worthy of scrutiny, because there is no town reason to lie but there is a HUGE scum reason to lie. (Namely, that whole narrowing the PoE pool).

So yes. You do need to claim who you voted for during paranoia. And if you are town, you will be truthful about it.

[Jingle]

But sure, prove to me that role = alignment, and I might reconsider. Otherwise, I am right and you're not.

Well, I mean in this case... If mastina is a loyal gladiator she is necessarily town. She successfully gladiated Chickadee and Chickadee was town. If she is loyal gladiator and not town, then she could not have successfully gladiated Chickadee. The only doubt there is whether mastina is loyal or not, and I find it far more likely that she is than that she isn't.

In a broader sense, Innocent Child is necessarily town, or you should never ever let the person who ran the game design a setup again.

Then you get into situations where a role itself means that the person holding it has to be town or scum. These are almost universally bad roles, like Unlimited Non Dayending DayVig, which should never be put into a setup in the first place.



Here though, my town read on mastina is more referring to the fact that Varsoon used his role at EoD when it looked inevitable mastina would gladiate him and she was the only really viable counterwagon. He was clearly hoping to split the town vote and manage to swing the entire voting process by letting scum vote as a block, giving him another day alive and a chance to dissolve the suspicion on him, which backfired. Additionally, mastina has been checking all of the boxes I look for in town mastina and none of the boxes I look for in scum mastina.

And, of course, I still advocate lynching mastina at 5 clears, just to dissolve my own paranoia about the possible existence of that role. It's a claim that one way or another does not make it to LYLO.

[Jingle]

You've quite literally gone cop - tracker - cop - tracker when we've gotten proof from two of your targets that you're a cop.

Rolecop. Also, I can corroborate, I was asked consent to give out my role information, not who I targeted. I'd have answered with yes either way though.

[Jingle]

So Jingle are you gonna die or do you still have time to walk the earth

:shrug:

I assume RC is talking to a listmod about what to do. I’m not sure if I even actually have extra information, but I’m trying very hard not to allude to what it might be if I do.

It’s 0 percent alignment indicative and this is exactly what I’d do as scum in this situation, so my advice is ignore the sword of Damocles above my neck for now.

And that's the problem. What if she is disloyal? You aren't even considering that possibility, which is bad play on your part imo, and something I find stupid.

But you do you, I guess. Just do me a favor. When she endgames you, you and everyone who falsely townread her will admit you were wrong and not try to absolve yourselves of the blame in any way, shape or form. There is no excuse for intentionally dooming the town by refusing to reconsider.

I will accept any blame I deserve post game for my townread on mastina, should it end up being wrong. Who else are you interested in sorting at the moment?

[Jingle]

Mastina claimed a truly abuseable role.

A large portion of the player base is arguing to policy lynch mastina because she won’t just hipfire.

Creature claimed a guilty on mastina today. Porkens claimed a guilty on jjh. Both are probably fake claims contextually.

We had a modkill because RC couldn’t find a replacement last night.

Adalbert is functionally conftowned by mastina.

Yesterday, Vecna invited me to put varsoon as the top wagon and varsoon flipped out about how mastina’s role is broken and attempting to abuse it isn’t real mafia and scum never stood a chance. He then locked the thread and instigated an anonymous vote where he got lynched.

Currently, we’re waiting on wheme to tell us who he claims to have voted yesterday and RC to tell us if I need to be force replaced because I might have been compromised.

NR is a rolecop presumably who keeps saying she’s a tracker despite all evidence pointing otherwise and freaking out over the mastina slot.

Oh, also, we’ve been using an unlimited votes mechanic to speed up days because this game is an awful slog of inactivity. I’ll update the hurt count when I’m not mobile.

[Jingle]

No one has been modkilled this game.

?

Does this mean that Skygazer was killed by an in game source and the flavor was based on activity? Because that’s an important distinction.

[Jingle]

No one, they were added as a 23rd player and the OP now says 2 players can be any alignment

[Jingle]

Can anyone explain that as part of their role, btw?

[Jingle]

No one has been modkilled this game.

?

Does this mean that Skygazer was killed by an in game source and the flavor was based on activity? Because that’s an important distinction.

@RC

[Jingle]

Not modconfirmed anything, since RC changed the number of potential scum in the OP.

If anything I’d guess slightly more likely to be 3p from the timing. There’s a vague potential it’s mid game balance tweaking, but I expect more from RC than that.

[Jingle]

I should be, unless RC edited me out. That'd be cruel of him.

So this is actually possible, but unlikely.

RC edited the signups list 3 days after creating this thread. This was 6 days before the setup was complete, as per mod posts in this thread. So it is possible that RC removed Shosin from the signups early into the setup design.

[Jingle]

So is this game bastard or something

Yes. Explicitly.

The mod lied about the playerlist. That's about as bastard as a game can get.

I'm going to assume the rest of the OP is accurate, but this mechanic, while interesting, is EXPLICITLY bastard.

[Jingle]

HurtCount 4.2:

Ineligible Players:

Adalbert:
Mastina: (5) Firebringer, Creature, Meme Men, Aristophanes

Eligible Players

Firebringer: (5) Vecna, Lady Angel, Mastina, Meme Men, Vecna
Nicorobin: (4) Invisibility, JJH, Meme Men, Jingle
Creature: (4) Meme Men, Vecna, Adalbert Steiner, Jingle
Northsidegal: (2) Nero Cain, Meme Men
Aristophanes: (2) NSG, Meme Men
jjh927: (2) Porkens, Meme Men
Whemestar: (2) Meme Men, Vecna
Gamma Emerald: (2) Meme Men, Vecna
Nero Cain: (2) Meme Men, Vecna
Jingle: (1) Meme Men
Vecna: (1) Meme Men
Lady Angel: (1) Meme Men
The MEME Men: (1) Meme Men
Porkens: (1) Meme Men
Invisibility: (1) Meme Men
Shoshin: (1) Meme Men

With 17 alive, 9 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.



VOTE: Creature

[Jingle]

Porkens and jjh.

2) Northsidegal
3) Firebringer Maid Cafe (MariaR & Beeboy)
11) Invisibility
13) Whemestar
18) Jingle
20) Creature
22) Aristophanes
23) Shoshin

Not included, but would be happy to add to the hurtcount next time if you would like.

[Jingle]

This is also why I flat-out do not believe that a LOUD JAILKEEPER (yes, duh, that is what I was) can also exist with a town LOUD DOCTOR and a town whatever-the-fuck you call Mastina's abomination of a role or fakeclaim.

So figure it out for me will you? Either Jingle has a scumclaim in his inbox, Mastina is scum with a fancy fake-claim or RC really did design the most unbalanced setup ever. Or im fake-claiming, which ofcourse is also highly possible, but not this time.

There may be a protown lie in my claim, but what that lie is isn't worth outing at the moment. Read into that what you will, because the WIFOM I just introduced is probably protown. I'm fairly certain the person who targeted me D2 is town. I'm not sure why no one else has claimed to be targeted.

You should 100% disbelieve a simple Loud Doctor claim after I die though. And yeah, I probably don't live overlong at this point either way.

[Jingle]

Oh, btw. I totally didn't act last night because

nihilism

.

Hi

I believe I got an incriminating result on mastina (barring redirection)

Scumclaim, I think.

[Jingle]

VOTE: Nero

For suggesting that I should be lynched when I just joined the game and haven't even had a chance to post anything remotely indicative of alignment, plus my entrance itself was strongly town indicative because of RC's specific word choice...

Explain ScumNERO motivation here, because from where I'm sitting that post looks town AF.

[Jingle]

For reference, gladiation is the ridiculously broken role from my synopsis.

Mastina claimed loyal gladiator. We can provably no lynch after the gladiation begins. Thus if mastina is true claiming then mastina can confirm our lynch targets as town and we can no lynch instead.

And I don't see how not removing you from his lynch pool is in any way scummy. You've done literally 0 to suggest you shouldn't be lynched. I'd frankly be concerned if he gave a list of 8 players worth sorting that didn't contain you.

[Jingle]

Creature.

Also, NR fakeclaimed a guilty there and retracted yesterday.

[Jingle]

The condition for posting was D4...

This was explicitly told to you pregame?

[Jingle]

Also, preemptively, I apologize if things get a little heated between us. I have a feeling you and I have largely incompatible approaches to the game of mafia and similarly sized egos, based on the endgame of Labyrinth.

[Jingle]

Click the link, Ari. I link to the post that I pull info from for transparency.

[Jingle]

[Jingle]

There are approximately 4 good reasons to be townreading me right now.

Being willing to do busy work will never be a good reason to townread me.

[Jingle]

I can't explain why, but I think it's actually a scumclaim.

[Jingle]

While you're here, who did you vote during Varsoonlock?

[Jingle]

Any particular reason your entrance comes across as confused that you're able to post?

[Jingle]

Hm.

What does buddying mean to you in a mafia context?

[Jingle]

It’s a general question aimed at shos. I’m interested in her response from a theoretical point of view.

[Jingle]

except for Jingle attributing the claim to Nero with a misquote

Not quite sure how I managed that, but I did know you were the one claiming it FWIW.

[Jingle]

Obviously it was a mixed up quote with you pasting it into scum chat.

Busted. Scumslip.

How did you know my access to the scumchat thread is why I might need to be replaced?

[Jingle]

Aye.

I no longer think this, but I had a tinfoil theory that Shoshin's entrance was a result of another player 'inviting' them into the game. If said player was mafia it would likely have come before the Varsoon threadlock to further influence the voteswing. If said player was town, adding her specifically now is weird timing. The remaining option (3rd party) both has more likelihood to have some kind of I add people to the thread role (ala cultist, but less terrible) and more reason to do so now.

On the other hand, Shoshin's insistence that they were in the original signups, the editing timestamps on the various threads, and RC's blatant admiration for her ability in the postgame of Labyrinth along with disdain for the rest of town 'ignoring her reads' (haven't read the whole game, so not sure how accurate that is) lend credence to the idea that she was given a role about not joining the game until late. At the very least, it's a well researched lie if it is a lie, meaning that Shoshin herself was probably in on creating it, so my 'recruited from outside the game' theory is worthless.

[Jingle]

Yes to Chick's role. Can't remember who, but someone got the same song like 5 times.

Night skipping is generally positive town utility, unless the setup is heavily reliant on nighttime investigations. Given the number of day abilities we've already seen, it's probably the equivalent of a guaranteed doctor protection.

[Jingle]

Jingle
Adalbert Steiner
Vecna
Mastina

The MEME Men
Nero Cain
Nicorobin
Porkens
Firebringer
Invisibility
Shoshin
Aristophanes
Northsidegal
jjh927
Whemestar
Lady Angel
Creature

This is roughly reads order, with Vizzy as the null line.

[Jingle]

I'm pretty sure he scumclaimed and cannot mechanically speak as to why.

[Jingle]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Varsoon interactions, play, role. In that order.

I'm ignoring the guilty for the moment because there is a very specific set of actions to take in this particular circumstance, and discussing why it is/isn't believable is in the not yet pile.

[Jingle]

I'm pretty sure he scumclaimed and cannot mechanically speak as to why.

I'm guilting his beloved mastina who, if it wasn't her role, would've been lynched by now.

hence why I scumclaimed.

Nope.

[Jingle]

You're positive Mastina is town? Why?

Varsoon interactions, play, role. In that order.

I'm ignoring the guilty for the moment because there is a very specific set of actions to take in this particular circumstance, and discussing why it is/isn't believable is in the not yet pile.

VOTE: Jingle

You don't ignore the guilty.

I explicitly do at this point. It's just correct play.

You ignore the guilty until the guiltied party responds to it, regardless of whether you believe in the validity of the guilty, because anything I say can be used by mastina to make her response more believable.

Commenting on it prematurely is basically the most antitown reaction to a guilty, second only to sheeping the guilty blindly without considering it's validity.

Now, if you want I can teach Hidden Information Games: 101 in the thread, or we can instead pretend we collectively have two braincells to rub together.

[Jingle]

I'm guilting his beloved mastina who, if it wasn't her role, wouldn't even be a talking point right now.

FTFY.

[Jingle]

wanna unleash pressure on WhemeStar for now?

The lack of commitment there is increasingly suspect.