A Story Revisited (Anything uPick): Day 6

[Jingle]

Oh. 90 hours til deadline, thought that was closer.

My point stands.

[Varsoon]

If she's scum and isn't loyal or 'clearing' anyone, but just a regular gladiator, what then?

[mastina]

I mean you just linked a fuckton of games without making a point about them

I did make my point. That list wasn't a complete one, as I said. I left out the numerous games where she flaked as both town and scum, but mostly scum. The games I left were ones where I wanted particular traits of hers to be highlighted. Traits she has a STRONG track record of displaying as town, and basically nil track record of displaying as scum.

Things which she

can

do as scum, sure--but as the exception to the general rule where she doesn't do them as scum but does do them as town.

In this playerlist, who do you think scum!Yume would be most concerned about reading her?

Not actually me. Frozen Angel, Shiro, Titus, MariaR, beeboy, going by the original playerlist. (Now admittedly Titus was scum and MariaR/beeboy were also scum, but. FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT.) From the replacements, Jingle and Varsoon. (Again, V's scum, BUT FOR THE SAKE OF ARGUMENT.) All of them present a serious credible threat to her.

Now, town-Yume, on the other hand,

does

see me as the player she is most concerned about reading her.

And, yes. A player's concerns about reading can change from alignment. Just because she's concerned about me reading her as town does not mean she'd be concerned about me reading her as scum. And if she

was

concerned? Her answer would be to fucking nightkill me. Not try to manipulate me.

I know Nico's mind and how it works as scum.

Her answer to encountering a scary name player who can read her isn't, "I need to adapt my game to specifically manipulate that player into townreading me".
Her answer to encountering a scary name player who can read her is, "this player needs to die, NOW".

Mastina u already admitted ur not reading me earlier now you want to say your confidence goes up from what I do?

You have a nice way of twisting my words but anyone who goes back to check your story out will see that what I said hasn't changed. The two are not mutually exclusive. My track record of reading you is poor; all the same, your actions have generated a stronger scumread than the already existing one.

[Jingle]

Either the scumteam is shooting people we would have lynched anyway (the gladiate targets) or she dies at 18 players alive. That's the 5 clears part of my plan. Given that the setup is confirmed to be either 5 or 6 scum, I'm really not concerned either way.

[Varsoon]

^ I don't see how that plan helps us very much but aight.

[Jingle]

Because, if we have a pool of 5 conftown at 17 players alive and a doctor, town is pretty damn far ahead.

If scum are exclusively shooting in the players we would have lynched anyway, town is pretty damn far ahead because we functionally control the nightkill.

And all of this is assuming that mastina doesn't manage to hit scum, in which case we have scumlynches, or that our doc stops nightkills.

[mastina]

i am sick, consider me v/la until its gone or i die.

Speaking of which! Doctor appointment was today. Lots and lots of bloodwork done (four vials I think?), urine test, and an X-ray of my chest, along with a prescription for a new medication that'll hopefully combat the nausea which is hopefully the cause of the lack of appetite which is hopefully the cause of the weight loss.

Won't solve my main problems overnight, but with all of those bloodwork tests done (including one for mono), by this time tomorrow with luck we'll know what it is and be able to treat it accordingly.

I literally can't remember the last time I misread mastina's play outside of GiF's fallout where I started out deathtunnelling her slot's previous occupant and then reversed my read just in time to be nightkilled.

I'm pretty sure there was a game tho.

Something more recent than Inorganic Chemistry at least. (I forget if you were the active head or if that was sthar.)

Word on the street is that scum mastina never gets wagoned

Oh I get

wagoned

, just not to lynch, most of the time. (Usually, when I want to be wagoned. Which is...pretty much most of my scumgames, actually. You'd

think

good scumplay for me would be to want to not be wagoned, but I am actually at my strongest ability as a scum manipulator when I am being wagoned. I don't actually know why. I can tell you plenty of reasons which aren't why, but I can't really put my finger on what makes that state be so magical.)

And when I'm lynched not of my own volition, it is usually much, much further into the game. If I were scum every game, the vast majority of the time I'd be earning the Battle Mage award, is what I mean by that, in that sure I'd get lynched in about 30-40% of those games, but of that 30-40%, only about 10% would be prior to D3 and of that 10% 90% of it would be willingly killing myself.

If you do the math, that means that I can and do get wagoned to a lynch not of my own volition as scum--.3 - .4% of the time. Which is close enough to "never" that it's not much of an exaggeration to say.

(On that note I'm kinda surprised nobody's asked me what I'd be doing differently this game as scum.)

Ok, here's the thing. There are alot of players doing shit. Some of those players are town, some of those players are scum. The few players that ARE being active are either not enough to presure inactive slots and/or are bickering amongst themselves. Your role grants you the authority and power to do that and a town you

SHOULD

be doing that.

Yeah, town should do that--but they should do it without relying on the crutch of a role to do so.

So a failure to do so is not something you can pin blame on me for; it's a collective failure. Am I without blame, no, I am part of the collective, but I am not the entirety of it so stop pretending I am.

why are voting varsoon im sad and confused

Am considering Invisibility as a possible scum to fill the ranks of my scumreads btw.

[Gamma Emerald]

Because mastina isn't the origin of the apathy. Complaints about mastina are the origin of the apathy.

Note, we're not even using normal lynch mechanics and we still can't get more than 50% percent of the players to agree on someone worth lynching. Neither of the first two lynches would have gone through. We never hit majority.

Even if the complaints are the true origin, do you know what happens when mastina is Lynched? Those complaints can’t be made any more, as mastina is gone. So anyone who continues fostering apathy is very likely scum.

[Gamma Emerald]

wow mastina referencing Mafia Achievements is a deep cut

[mastina]

I think it's concerning that Mastina wasn't online anywhere near to my original deadline

Frankly I thought I made my opinion clear on the matter but then again I thought I posted yesterday when I just got prodded so who knows maybe I didn't.

Then to reiterate-or-state-for-the-first time: I honestly don't give a fuck about your power, and don't see a reason why I should.

I feel you using it would be anti-town. This, I know for a 100% fact I already stated.
I feel like your threat to use it is an actual, legitimate case of holding the game hostage, the very thing people are wrongly accusing me of doing even though my usage of my power is the furthest thing from it. This, I also know I have stated for sure.
But I see no reason I should care about you using it beyond feeling it's a mistake.

Keep in mind I wasn't the one who came up with the idea of gladiating every day--that was you.
So I don't care about using it every day (I feel like it's the most optimal strategy, but I don't care for it to the point where I'll go out of my way to advocate for it); I would be fine with a lynch done the traditional way--it was

your

idea to use it every day, and you were the one who first pointed out why it was mathematically optimal for us to use it every day instead of a traditional lynch.

The question then wouldn't be why would I care so much about my gladiate to go out of my way to use it before you used your ability.
The question would be why you wouldn't care about my gladiate enough that you'd instead use your ability.

I still don't understand your logic for that.

[mastina]

I just wished someone would townclear mastina

I know an amazing power that can do exactly that!

It's called a nightkill. The most OP power of all time, not only giving you a clear of my alignment but also revealing my role down to the last detail!

And I guarantee you one will be used on me sooner or later. (There's no universe where scum never discuss it.)

Her reads feel pretty good but her play today seems pretty bad

I am sick.

I promise you I will be playing better when this is no longer the case.

I am getting answers.
I am starting treatment.
So I will be getting better soon, hopefully.
But I'm not better yet, so I am still sick.

HURT: NicoRobin, Jingle, Aristophanes

Pretty sure you already know mine!
HURT: Firebringer, Varsoon, Lady Angel
HURT WITH A BLADE: Invisibility.

[Varsoon]

Because, if we have a pool of 5 conftown at 17 players alive and a doctor, town is pretty damn far ahead.

If scum are exclusively shooting in the players we would have lynched anyway, town is pretty damn far ahead because we functionally control the nightkill.

And all of this is assuming that mastina doesn't manage to hit scum, in which case we have scumlynches, or that our doc stops nightkills.

I fail to see how we get any cleared town if Mastina is scum and a regular gladiator.
Like the whole loyal thing isn't a part of the role at all.
The whole bolding shit in the thread isn't a part of the role at all.
It's all artifice
How do we get confirmed town from that?
Walk me through that logic.

I can see what you mean by saying we functionally 'control' the nightkill, but do we really?
I don't think so. Scum still kills whoever they want. Some may be the gladiated targets, some may not. How does this help us? At what point do we decide it's worth it to just lynch mastina?
Because until then
I don't think we're going to ever have a lynch on scum
and scum's definitely not shooting themselves

Does this make sense to you?

[Jingle]

Even if the complaints are the true origin, do you know what happens when mastina is Lynched? Those complaints can’t be made any more, as mastina is gone. So anyone who continues fostering apathy is very likely scum.

Do I have to explain why "We should lynch X because Y and Z are complaining about X" is possibly the stupidest policy lynch idea I've ever heard?

[Jingle]

If mastina is a vanilla scum gladiator, then scum have to kill the people we have pseudocleared to prevent the pool of clears from reaching the threshold of 5. Let's look at tonight.

I'm cleared, Chick is cleared, Kuroi is cleared. Scum to prevent the number of mastina clears growing to 4 has to kill one of the three of us. If any of us is scum, they're automatically out of contention. Presumably, scum is going to want to target the most town of the three of us. Note, we also have a doctor operating under the assumption that we're conftown, so any of the three of us is likely to be protected as well.

If scum shoots outside of that pool OR fails to kill their intended target, we get another clear. That's 4. Now scum has to kill one of the four, or any successful gladiate by mastina hits the threshold of 5 and mastina gets lynched. So in order for scum mastina to survive three more dayphases, scum has to shoot within the pool of players who were suspicious enough to be lynched in the first place. Which is... leashing the scumkill.

[mastina]

Mastinas role is dumb let’s just kill mastina

Yknow what sure.
HURT WITH A BLADE: WhemeStar.

[mastina]

Do you guys actually want to continue playing this game?

I DO want to play it, but given that I'm sick I wouldn't exactly cry if it were abandoned, since it'd be one less thing to worry about.

Then again given that I went to the doctor (and this time the doctor DID believe me, and I had my family there to cover any details I'd miss), I should be getting better soon so that'd leave me with no need to even restrict myself. So I wouldn't mind, but I'd prefer to play given the main reason I wouldn't mind is a temporary (albeit currently debilitating) condition.

[mastina]

You should probably just gladiate me, given ~48 hours til deadline and me being at L-1 Gladiate wise, mastina.

I'll do it if all the players on the wagon give confirmation they are on it (have they? I don't think so), and if it is hammered, but otherwise, deadline's no concern; my ability adds time to it, you'll recall.

I'd still prefer to use it on V given the choice.

[Jingle]

Gladiate VoteCount 6:

Ineligible Players:

KuroiXHF:
Chickadee:
Mastina: Firebringer, Nero Cain, Whemestar, Gamma Emerald

Eligible Players

Jingle: L-1 (10) Nero Cain, Creature, JJH, Jingle, Lady Angel, Aristophanes, Nico Robin, Vecna, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald
Nicorobin: (9) Lady Angel, Whemestar,

JJH

, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Gamma Emerald, Aristophanes,

Vecna

Varsoon: (8) Northsidegal, Mastina, Creature, Skygazer, Chickadee, Jingle,

Meme Men

, Nico Robin
Vecna: (5) Creature, Invisibility, Jingle, Varsoon, Aristophanes, Gamma Emerald
Northsidegal: (4) Chickadee, Jingle, Invisibility, Meme Men, Nero Cain
Aristophanes: (3) Chickadee, JJH, Meme Men
Firebringer: (3) Mastina, Creature,Jingle,
Lady Angel: (3) Mastina, Skygazer, Jingle,
jjh927: (3)

Jingle

, Lady Angel,

Nico Robin

,
The MEME Men: (3) Jingle, Creature, Meme Men,
Whemestar: (3) Mastina, Vecna, Creature
Porkens: (3) Jingle, Nico Robin, Vecna,
Gamma Emerald: (2) Jingle, Meme Men,
Nero Cain: (2) Vecna, Varsoon,
Skygazer: (1) Jingle, Nero Cain
Invisibility: (1) mastina
Creature: (0)
Threshold reduction:
Threshold increase:

Players without a gladiate opinion at all: KuroiXHF, Porkens

With 20 alive, 11 is the proposed Gladiate Threshhold. If you want to reduce or increase the threshold, please indicate as such.

Please note, this includes information stolen from the recent votecounts and possibly from reads lists, assuming that all players you're claiming are scum you are also willing to see gladiated.

If you would like your name removed from a wagon, please indicate as such.

Additionally, I have begun the process of bolding the name on the wagon of their strongest scumread (Or what I percieve to be their strongest scumread). If you would like to have your name bolded on a particular wagon, please say so and I will oblige.

Links added and votes moved to be roughly chronological. Please let me know if anything needs to be changed/added/removed.

[Jingle]

Creature is the only pre hurt-tags vote on me who has not confirmed he'd still like to see me gladiated explicitly.

Also, Vecna should be 6, NSG 5, and Skygazer 2. I'm not putting up a new VC to fix that, because the names to the right are all correct, I just didn't adjust the numbers apparently.

Dammit, I wish I could edit posts here.

[Jingle]

From the replacements, Jingle

I uh... I'm not sure why NR would fear me.

Unless you've been going around and spreading stories of my awesomeness again.

[Lady Angel]

First off, I'm glad you're getting treatment for this, Mastina. It sounds awful and I hope you get well soon.

Second off, I would be fine with a Jingle gladiate since we either get an actual active softclear or a scum confirm on his flip, be it him or Mastina if he flips town.

[Vecna]

Ok I might be getting played good here, but whatever. Jingle's willingness is played out so well it either means he's flat town (most likely) or scum with Mastina meaning his result here is far less usefull than a potential scumflip. Its pretty clear to me were not gonna get that from gladiating Jingle here.

HEAL: Jingle

HURT: Varsoon

This should really be between NR and Varsoon. My strong preference is still for it to be NR, but im fine with either given the resistance.

This should put it at 8/8/8 I think?

[Vecna]

So my question is: Are people voting for Jingle because they want him to townflip? Because thats pretty nonsensical in the given situation. If were not lynching Mastina, we need her ability to produce a guilty. Which clearly is much more likely to happen in NR/Varsoon given that we allready know their role, and theyre still extremely resistant to getting towncleared. Might be because they also just want to find a guilty, but that really isnt the case since theyre voting Jingle without having given much reason as to why he's scum (well NR is scumreading him, but thats just because of the team with Mastina scenario she is going after).

[Vecna]

(and im actually with Jingle here that people need to step up. Lets not whine about this game continuously, lets try to make it better. There are other ways to do that besides lynching Mastina - even if the criticism there is valid).

[Varsoon]

If scum shoots outside of that pool OR fails to kill their intended target, we get another clear. That's 4. Now scum has to kill one of the four, or any successful gladiate by mastina hits the threshold of 5 and mastina gets lynched. So in order for scum mastina to survive three more dayphases, scum has to shoot within the pool of players who were suspicious enough to be lynched in the first place. Which is... leashing the scumkill.

But they're not 'clears', Jingle. Oh nooo scum eventually hits 5 people in the 'pseudoclear' pile before mastina, who has to eat a lynch before the end of this game, does so. In the meantime, scum have forced town to give up their lynch for SEVERAL days, meaning town has NOT LYNCHED AT ALL FOR SEVERAL DAYS while scum just GETS TO KILL THEM. Do you see why this is a bad idea? Do you see how this isn't a 'leashed' scumkill at all?

Varsoon still extremely resistant to getting towncleared.

I literally bold-faced told Mastina to gladiate me. I don't see how that reads as 'extreme resistance'.
I'm also pushing for a 'clear' on Jingle (even though nothing is a fucking clear at all until mastina gets lynched holy shit you people are fucking stupid) because Jingle is a huge questionmark for a lot of people and town!Jingle will lead us to victory whereas scum Jingle just fucks us over, given that Jingle is the most outspoken force for moving this godddamn game out of the fucking quagmire it's been.
Why the FUCK is EVERYONE treating A FUCKING GLADIATOR like a PUBLIC COP?