Newbie 1909 | Scheme | Over

[EGL]

1. I played off-site a long time ago and then played here from... 2007-2011? It's been a very long time since I've played the mafia. That's why I signed up for a newbie game, trying to relearn everything.
2 & 3. It's been so long, I can't really say.
4. Multiple OMGUS, lots of WIFOM, rolehunting, and stuff like that can be good indicators.

@dicideaq: why do you think town will all stay quiet?

@loopdan, can you explain what the dicideaq scumslip was?

VOTE: emperorflippynips

[EGL]

Clem you never unvoted dicideaq did you?

[EGL]

I don't care for short day phases. I like more discussion.

Can I get an explanation first about dicide's alleged scumslip? Also it might be appropriate to let loop claim first.

@loop, why are you putting yourself at L-1?

[EGL]

I'll sheep Clem. That vote is towney.

VOTE: Loopdan

That's L-1

ngl i'd hammer this

Thanks. A rule that has changed since I've been gone! I'm sure there are many.

[EGL]

Oh I quoted the wrong post. Sorry. I meant about not having to unvote first. smh

[EGL]

@Loop, what was dicide's alleged scumslip?

[EGL]

@Loop Do you feel you are helping the town by voting for yourself?

[EGL]

How does it help the town? Are you scum?

[EGL]

I never even got to drop some of the names of people I've played with that none of you would probably even know because it was so long ago.

I've self-hammered as town in the past because I was frustrated after suffering insults from other players. In retrospect, it wasn't a pro-town thing to do, and I would neither do it again nor would I ever recommend it.

[EGL]

I learned python in college.

@amezda it usually just moves out of rvs and yes you're right an explanation what the scumslip was would be nice.

[EGL]

EBWOP: @Amzela. Sorry for getting the name wrong.

That said, since she removed her vote, I'll put Loop back to L-1 until he answers my question about dicideaq.

VOTE: Loopdan

@Loop, You said you voted yourself to prompt discussion about

this

game. Don't you think it would have been better to talk about what you perceived as a dicideaq scumslip rather than your self-voting?

[EGL]

@Teacher
@EmperorflippyNips
@ZombieStrikes
@Dell
@Amzela

What do you think of the LoopDan situation?
Do you think dicideaq made a scumslip?

[EGL]

unvote

[EGL]

@teacher that shouldn't have been hammer because amzela unvoted

[EGL]

Thoughts on reactions to your play, loopdan?

[EGL]

I know what that's like.

[EGL]

it's a bold move, cotton
VOTE: dicideaq

Clem, did you feel dicide made a scumslip?

[EGL]

Not sure if Clemency will see my question before mod's post.

Clemency: When you voted for dicideaq as the second vote, did you feel he made a scum slip?

[EGL]

1. I'm new
2.I guess I'd listen to everyone else and make no accusations.
3. I guess I'd stay quiet
4. I think scum usually puts a lot of accusations, whereas most town will be quiet

Wow talk about scum claiming in your first post! Get 'em boys.

VOTE: dicideaq

Loop says there's a scum slip (apparently trying to give scum something to jump onto as explained in later post). The very next post...

it's a bold move, cotton
VOTE: dicideaq

Clem jumps on.

The wagon never gets going on dicide. Amzela puts a second vote on Loop.

sounds reasonable VOTE: loopdan

Clem finds a new wagon with more momentum. I haven't included it in my quotes, but he tried to encourage me to give D1 a very early end and hammer after Loop put himself at L-1.

VOTE: Clemency

FoS: Amzela

. Awkward defense of dicide and almost like an OMGUS by proxy when she put the second vote on Loop (teach had already random voted loop).

Competing theories for me: Clemency scum or Amzela & dicide scumpair.

[EGL]

@amzela yes his wagon jumping early on makes him look opportunistic to me (speaking of Clemency). Also very curious about dicide's vote on loop there with no reasoning. @dicideaq why are you voting for loop?

[EGL]

Amzela - Should I vote Clem or dici?

Asking myself the same thing after dicide's vote.

[EGL]

After thinking it over, I feel like dicide needs the votes more than Clemency right now.

VOTE: dicideaq

[EGL]

ISO'd?

[EGL]

@teacher are you asking my opinion on amzela or Clem his opinion on me?

I think one more person needs to vote dicideaq. Let's get him talking.

[EGL]

Are we still waiting on two people to post?

We're still waiting on them to confirm roles.

[EGL]

@loop you mean 168 and 169? 167 just says he was skimming before replacing in.

Also, welcome child.

Also, dicideaq said he thought

town

would be quiet and not scum. Not trying to speak for him or defend him (I'd like him to start saying words that contribute to the finding of scum) but it was in the quote you included.

[EGL]

Welcome u r a person 2.

[EGL]

Loop disregard my question. You posted while I was writing mine.

[EGL]

U r a person when you can would you share your thoughts on Clemency, child, and dicideaq?

[EGL]

@loop How exactly does that prove Clemency isn't his partner again? Scummates will often try to distance themselves from one another in case one of them gets caught, won't they? And since you asked him to do it for that very reason... Are you thinking scum clem would follow along with your request in an attempt at passing as town?

[EGL]

clemency - town lean. My thinking meshed with his when reading through his interaction with loopdan about the self vote. Nothing I would take to the bank. i did a paper on estonia once upon a time and that might be biasing me here. It seems like a nice country.

child - lemme wait on this until loopdan explains his insight a little better.

dici - I see what ya'll have been talking about and I believe that for some people their openings can be very AI. also the naked vote.. it's a scummy start, no way around it. Could be lynch bait. Dici, if you're town, then I think you're probably struggling to get into this game. I suggest that you talk about your reads, arguments people have made, votes, or really anything at all.

VOTE: Dici

Good vote.

[EGL]

@child fair enough. I thought you were referring to his answer to question 4 in your post.

[EGL]

U r a person when you can would you share your thoughts on Clemency, child, and dicideaq?

@teacher ^

U r was just responding to my question.

[EGL]

Lol sorry one of those situations again where I was replying when you were posting. My bad. Smartphones are wonderful things, no?

[EGL]

@loop How exactly does that prove Clemency isn't his partner again? Scummates will often try to distance themselves from one another in case one of them gets caught, won't they? And since you asked him to do it for that very reason... Are you thinking scum clem would follow along with your request in an attempt at passing as town?

I want some more votes on Child and Clem is the kind of player who isn't afraid to sheep (some people think this makes them look weak, but Clem is a memey player so I don't think he minds). The only insight it really provides is that it looks like his read changed on me, since I was his prior vote.

Thanks.

[EGL]

Lol sorry one of those situations again where I was replying when you were posting. My bad. Smartphones are wonderful things, no?

They are, and no worries at all. What I am about to say is just a general point that I have thought about saying once before this game, and this reminded me. I honestly don’t care here.

The general/IC teaching point is that it is considered poor form to answer a question directed to someone else - the questioner may be seeking a specific response from a specific person. For example, sometimes I have seen people repeat questions pages apart to see if the answers stay the same or evolve. In that circumstance, though it may be tempting to be “helpful” and link back to the old answers, try not to. Likewise, I might have been aware of 182 and seeing if UR2 would point to that after his roadtrip or offer a different story (I wasn’t, but I could have been)

Again here no harm no foul at all because it was pure error. But a good opportunity to make a worthwhile general point.

Ah yeah. I won't answer most questions for other people, but I just thought you had missed my post and that it wasn't a big deal in this case. My bad.

[EGL]

UNVOTE:

[EGL]

Going to think about this over dinner.

[EGL]

Loop has a point. Teach should have commented on dici L-1. I don't like amzela's last post. She comes across as encouraging us to lynch dici while trying to keep a distance from it, like she wants to keep her hands clean. I don't think I like them as a scumpair anymore. I don't like her reasons for defending him, either. Never have.

VOTE: amzela

[EGL]

If Clemency is around can I get another vote on amzela?

[EGL]

@dicideaq when you get back who is one player on your wagon and one off you think is scummate? Why?

[EGL]

Thanks Clem.

[EGL]

@teacher loopdan doesn't know your thoughts unless you're part of the Borg collective.

[EGL]

I feel like a good dici scum partner would have either hammered dici or been on the bandwagon. I'm 50/50 on whether dici is scum or town right now. He just hasn't posted enough, and I only wanted the votes to get him to start talking.

[EGL]

@Clem why did you want to hammer dici?

[EGL]

Is it okay for us to say when someone last logged in?

[EGL]

Loop has a point. Teach should have commented on dici L-1. I don't like amzela's last post. She comes across as encouraging us to lynch dici while trying to keep a distance from it, like she wants to keep her hands clean. I don't think I like them as a scumpair anymore. I don't like her reasons for defending him, either. Never have.

VOTE: amzela

Fair enough. I honestly just don’t want someone hammered when they’ve only made two posts. It doesn’t seem fair especially since he’s brand new and the whole point of newbie games, if I’m not mistaken, is to get people playing, which is why I didn’t vote. He was L-1.

Given that you’ve switched your votes to me though, that doesn’t put him at L-1 right? Maybe some commitment will help clear my name?
VOTE: dicideaq

@Loop, I guess I defer to other players with regards to aggression being a scum thing. I typically see aggression as a scum thing, because from what I understand it creates wagons quickly and ends days quickly. Then again, I’m also a very passive person IRL and I know different rules apply to a game like Mafia.
Also, could you explain what you mean by scum having me in their pockets?

@Teacher, I’m Mountain Time, so -7 hours to London and 2 hours behind you if you’re in Bethesda, MD.

@Amzela It doesn't really help anyone if you're constantly defending him. It doesn't help him start playing, because he doesn't have to speak for himself. It doesn't help the town, because he's not talking so we can't get a read on him. To be honest, it just looks like a scum buddying up to a townie. And the very fact that you said you're voting him to "clear (your) name" does the opposite. And with two votes on you, you put him back to L-1.

Do you feel that newbie games are also supposed to help newbies learn how to play? Would there have been a lesson for him to help him in future games had Clem hammered?

@Everyone More votes on Amzela please.

[EGL]

2 hours behind you if you’re in Bethesda, MD.

Perfect, see you Monday morning-ish your time. Thank you.

@dicideaq when you get back who is one player on your wagon and one off you think is scummate? Why?

EGL talk to me about this. Can you show me anything in your history marrying the 1:1 position? Because I STRONGLY agree with it (and can provide several links) so am just curious, as I hadnt seen anybody else be this explicit about it before.

I don't remember which game it was or if it was even on this site, but I remember someone mentioning it as a common tactic a loooong time ago (bear in mind I haven't played since 2011.) It would be a huge undertaking for me to dig through all of the old games I've played here, and impossible for me to find games on other sites that are now defunct (RIP W316, EWZine, and other sites). But it's something I do remember. That and there was something about where scum typically appear on wagons, but I can't remember the vote numbers. Is voting analysis in that regard still a thing?

Also, for some reason it didn't get your other question in my multiquote. I guess if you didn't have thoughts about it, then you shouldn't have said anything about it. It just seems like when the wagon reached L-1, you'd have some opinion on it. Whether you're for or against lynching him, if you feel there's scum on the wagon, whatever.

[EGL]

but like, i think the whole backing the pressure off by the two of ya'll was kind of bleh. let a guy react under the gun

Fair enough. Just that Clem was wanting to hammer. I wasn't ready for that yet.

[EGL]

I had a secondary reason for asking dici to tell me one scum on and one off the wagon as well. I didn't want to have him just focusing on the people voting for him, which can be easy to do. That said, it has been a good discussion about one on one off.

[EGL]

And teacher caused me to go look at some old games, which really brought back memories. The days of newbie games being in three digits...

[EGL]

What is TIL?

[EGL]

I disagree

[EGL]

What do you mean by keep up appearances?

[EGL]

She was willing to throw him under the bus with a couple votes on her. Also, don't you find it odd she said two or three times that she thought he was "scared?"

[EGL]

@Clem are you 100% certain she's town?

[EGL]

Like Yoplait being made with 20% less sugar?

[EGL]

I think I get what you mean. She was the candidate for lynch I've been most comfortable with thus far, although I wanted to wait for her conversation with teacher tomorrow. That's supposed to happen in the thread, right?

When I saw child's vote, I had thought about asking for no hammer until their convo but I was alarmed by you declaring her town and unvoting.

@amzela please don't be discouraged to keep playing this and other mafia games.

[EGL]

And she still is my biggest scum read so far, pending her conversation with teacher.

[EGL]

til = today i learned

Thanks.

TIL don’t defend anyone.

Any advice on how to defend myself and get myself out of this hole I’ve dug? From anyone.

If you disagree with a lynch, that's fine, and as time goes on you'll play different mafia games where you'll have all sorts of roles that can confirm who other people are, such as being in a masonry or a town cop or a tracker, whatever.

If your role can confirm someone is town, by all means defend them, but not to the point of giving away your own role when it's a PR (power role).

If you disagree with lynching someone, that's fine, but please give us better reasons other than you think they're scared. How would you know he's scared unless he talked to you about it? Also, give him a chance to defend himself first before jumping to his aid, and formulate your read on him based on that.

[EGL]

Got to get lunch.

[EGL]

What is TL/DR?

[EGL]

@teacher do you have any scum reads?

[EGL]

I expected his prod to come at 9am tomorrow.

[EGL]

What are WIM and WIME, respectively?

[EGL]

Thanks. I appreciate your analysis. Many good points to think about, especially in regards to a child/dici scum team.

[EGL]

Roger Dodger.

[EGL]

CFD?

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Happy New Year's Eve everyone.

[EGL]

Thank you

[EGL]

It's looking like dici will be replaced soon. He has less than 10 hours to post according to mod's post about prodding him. I'm not voting him again until someone replaces him or he comes back and starts to participate.

[EGL]

I don't like the alternative if he's town though.

[EGL]

Besides we have more than 5 days (five and some odd hours) of day left.

[EGL]

Are you 100% amz is town?

[EGL]

Fine. I'll give him 4 and a half hours to show up. If he doesn't, I'll hammer it. Fair?

[EGL]

Yeah you're probably right. Mod prodded him last night. He logged on after and didn't post. Still want to give him some time as a courtesy. And who knows, we could be hitting scum, so that would be nice.

[EGL]

As promised, here is the hammer. VOTE: @dicideaq

[EGL]

Time to iso loop

[EGL]

@emp who are your scum reads?

[EGL]

I'll support you on this.

VOTE: child

Got any questions for him?

[EGL]

Okay now let's let him respond/role claim if he feels the need before anyone hammers, please.

[EGL]

EGL, how did the dici flip affect your views on amz?

I've been thinking about that a lot, actually. Would you just like the end result or would you like as much of my thinking process as I can remember?

[EGL]

Sorry everyone the holidays kept me busy & works been long so a little hard to keep up here, a lot going on.
To me I have a scum read on child and a lean on Clem, he said that when he’s scum he wants town to dismiss him
And I have a null read on amzela but I haven’t been able to read the interaction between her and teacher yet.
I thought I had sent my reads out before but I guess I never submited and lost them? Oh well
Oh right & on UR im getting townie vibes but I’m not sure I’m skeptical

Thank you for offering your reads.

[EGL]

NK=night kill. What is NKA?

[EGL]

Also, at the end of my deliberations I had decided to trust you guys re: amzela.

[EGL]

Thank you Clem

[EGL]

@Clem do you have an investigative role which furnished proof that child is the last scum?

[EGL]

Trackers have changed since my time here, I guess. I was town tracker once (although not in newbie forum and I was lynched day 2). Back then it wasn't just checks. The person I followed didn't go anywhere and that's how my result pm was written out. But that was a long time ago.

@teacher I worded my question in a very specific way so that Clem would not give himself away as a PR if he did not have a result on Child.

[EGL]

UNVOTE:

[EGL]

@Clem do you have an investigative role which furnished proof that child is the last scum?

Now that its been over a day for Child/Amzela, I will make my position slightly more explicit. My role does not preclude another investigative or semi-investigative. But I have seen only one other possible soft today, and I am not even certain about that. The absence of another result is part of what is making me nervous about the short day: We could lose a PR without the benefits of their results. Further, after the flip at the end of D1, Child would have been the obvious target for most PRs, so I am somewhat surprised at the lack of conclusive proof.

To keep my own role as vague as possible, I will briefly discuss suggestions for all possible inv/semi-inv roles in the spoiler.

I do NOT think people should follow this advice, though, until others (clem/EGL/URAP2/etc) have had a chance to read it and state whether they agree from a mechanical/theory point of view.

Spoiler: PR thoughts

Meaning/suggestions:

• Cop: This one handles itself. You either have an inno, a guilty, or a no result (column A-block target). Crumbing any of the above would be appropriate, as it outs your result if you flip and, even if you dont have one, it attracts the roleblock so that (A3) you can become known!town protected by the unblocked doctor or (A1) the neap is free to get a clear.
  
• Neap: Same/Same: You either have an inno, a 50/50, or a no-result (column A-block target). Crumbing any of the above would be appropriate, for nearly the same reasons. The 50/50 makes sense to crumb because if you die tonight, the 50/50 becomes either known!town or auto.
  
• Jailkeeper: At this point, you are functionally a cop - jailing someone should prevent them from performing the NK, unless we are in column A and scum manages to target the roleblock perfectly. That is pretty darn unlikely last night, with only two PR crumbs (at least that I picked up upon), so your target is likely innocent. That should be crumbed, and your target should not be hit again tonight.
  
• Tracker: You either have a green check (no movement), a red check (movement), or no result (jailkept). A green check is an inno that should be crumbed. A red-check is a 50/50 that makes sense to crumb for the same reason as the neap - if you die tonight, the 50/50 becomes either known!town or auto. A no result likely should
  NOT
  be crumbed because it does not provide additional information/attract a roleblocker (that cannot exist with your role).

Finally, I have to say EGL, while I used the quoted question to start my own PR discussion, it did feel a little like sniffing around for the other PR after my own soft. Indeed, my Wagon analysis moved you down my readslist for the first time, because of everybody on the wagon, it did feel like you were pushing the most to derail it if possible/redirect it to Amzela (the repeat 100% questions and all that). Its not enough to get you out of my townblock for other reasons, but my board now looks like:

Clem
Teacher
URAP2
EGL
Amzela
Flippy
Child

aye, that makes sense
also i'm honored to be ranked higher than yourself

How do you rank someone else higher than yourself?

[EGL]

I don't know. I still think teacher is town, because he easily could have hammered child if he was scum, but considering he has seen his own role PM it's odd he'd rank someone else higher than himself on his town list.

[EGL]

And I was hoping to get him to answer that.

[EGL]

That still doesn't account for ranking someone else higher than yourself.

[EGL]

Okay. I guess that is the part that has changed.

[EGL]

That still doesn't account for ranking someone else higher than yourself.

It’s one way of crumbing a PR result for the flip, though admittedly a very heavy handed one since it sticks out as you noticed. I’ve modeled various ways to crumb today in 429 but also 411 - “I started the day,” “night events,” etc.

Ps - tracker results have not changed. People just speak about them genetically as red checks or green checks.

Okay I guess that makes sense.

[EGL]

@mod

I had unvoted before the vote count

[EGL]

@mod

thank you!

[EGL]

If it's almost time for child to be prodded, it's almost time for amzela to be prodded too, right?

[EGL]

Hey teacher while you're here, what should we all vote on making night phase shorter? I don't think we used to be able to vote on that back in the day.

[EGL]

Thanks

[EGL]

I never said it would impede on a learning opportunity. On the contrary, there would have been and in fact was a perfect learning opportunity for dici.

[EGL]

Please unvote Child.

[EGL]

I'm not comfortable with a Child lynch right now. Let's give him some time to show up.

[EGL]

EH, do keep in minds that the odds of correctly calling a team are like 4%, and I have yet to do it (though I regularly try).

I do want to talk with you after I talk with Amzela though. After I went through the ISO I have a lot less suspicions than I had before, so we should hash my points out with yours after the fact.

@teacher I think it's time we have that talk... Before child gets lynched.

[EGL]

Just about to go to bed. I'll likely be up late afternoon EST.

[EGL]

Sorry I just woke up about an hour ago.

[EGL]

Give me a few minutes and we can begin.

[EGL]

Alright, I'm around if you are.

[EGL]

Good morning everyone.

Loop was Town actually? Huh. I guess those were actually voting shenanigans.

Emp was on V/LA until New Years right? So if people would be okay waiting until Emp posts after Child too before hammering happens?

Just to get started... What do you make of Amzela's reaction?

[EGL]

Understood re: live chat. I thought it was odd she seemed surprised by Loop flip and no mention of dici flip.

[EGL]

Understood re: live chat. I felt it odd Amz seemed surprised by Loop flip and didn't even mention dici flip.

But there are a couple of things that don't make sense to me.

Whole Board Reads (in order from 0)

Spoiler: Child

Scumread. I already talked mindmelding with Dan's 191 commentary on the entry, and personally finding 169 even more jarring. But I also REALLY didnt like the 266 and 267 evolution to voting Amzela just as that wagon caught steam. Here is why. Child's 168 gave Dici alot of scumpoints when that was a popular thing to do, but did NOT vote him. Child claimed it was because Dici was at L-1, but Dici wasnt - as the votecount above Child's post (with no votes in between) showed.

In other words, Child's actions did not match his words, and the purported reason for the gap was false. Then, when the "L-1" scare was removed, Child claims to have lost the scumread of Dici -- WITH ABSOLUTELY NO POSTS in the interim. Sorry, flaking out of a game is slightly +rand scum, so this reason to lose a scumread doesnt hold water to me -- especially if you jump over two previous scumleans (Clem and Loopdan) without commentary, to join a momentum wagon on a slot (Amzela) that was OFF what you now claim to see as a mislynch wagon (Dici). Nothing about this vote and evolution makes sense. Nothing. But it does give momentum to a wagon on a slot I feel better about being town than Dici.

Spoiler: URAP2

townlean out of my compromise pool, but still want to sort better. Theres alot of WIM, especially 249 on criticizing his townreads for wanting pressure as undercutting my fear of a pocket from the reaction to my "time out of body" experience, but I like the loose off the cuff reactions and what feels like a consistent, genuine thought process.

Spoiler: Flippy

Pure null, too vanilla and still sounding out the game.

Spoiler: dici

The claimed scum I do feel pretty strongly about this being scum, enough to the point that I am mildly looking for associatives. Part of it is a could different personality things. For example, he was excited enough about the game to be the THIRD player on and posting, with 10. But the contents of that post are scum indicative - it encourages town to stay quiet and not make accusations. Further, the wording just seems a bit off -- I answered first so that people could see a model -- semi-jokish with 2 and 3, possibly some thought with 4. Here, there wasnt joking, and there wasnt any actual insight into catching scum, just an excuse for him lurking. The naked vote 114 and the site-flake dont improve the read. All in all, I find this a pretty standard newb-scum flake when scumread and uncertain what to do about it.

tinfoil associational theory, flaking is all the more understandable if your partner .... child, ahem ... has not appeared yet to discuss in the PT, and does not appear until after you have left

Spoiler: EGL

So town that his middle name is AndCountry. Seriously, take my thoughts in 123, add a little 259 and 309, and youve got a lovely bottle of WIME. Im not going to case this, but if Im wrong about this, you should be banned from the newb queue because powerwolfing this strong is awesome.

Im still tired from the travel and dont want to do Amzela until after we talk in the morning anyways, so I will wrap it up tomorrow. Short version:

Teacher
EGL
Dan
URAP2
_____________Sort Zone
Clem
Amzela
Flippy
____________ Scum Zone
Child
Dici

VCA/NKA

These combined had a couple of effects: (1) Strengthened town-reads URAP2 + Amzela, and (2) weakened town-read of EGL. Before writing this up, I want to stress that I still think Child is the last scum, and I think I am somewhat falling victim to the fallacy mentioned right before the hammer yesterday, of doubting accurate townreads because scum is letting the game stagnate. But for purposes of this exercise, I am assuming town!child. Also, the below does not mention Amzela's disappearance since daybreak, which largely negates any benefit mentioned here.

Spoiler: NKA

Loop was somewhat of a surprising kill target, as he was not a universal town-read. The universal townreads were me and EGL. (see, e.g., 205). Both because I am the IC, and because I steered the lynch to Dici, I expected

NOT

to be the NK target, because scum would expect me to be protected. So I kind of expected EGL to die. The fact that he didn’t despite the strength of the townreads (from all who had commented) is somewhat surprising/worth weakening my townread. (Not that much, however, because Dici’s naked vote on Loop had pretty much townspewed Loop anyways – but scum couldn’t know that for sure).

The counter-argument – and, to be frank, in my view the better argument – is that Loop was killed simply to frame town!Flippy. Scum last night knew they needed to make it to a D4 Lylo. If Child is indeed town, framing flippy could line up two lynches on low-ish hanging fruit. An EGL kill would have pointed towards Amzela, at least on the surface, but Clem/me/URAP all had townleans there (plus see the VCA below). In short, a town!amzela mislynch was way more uphill than a town!flippy one. And if Child is scum, Loop’s death at least proffers a plausible saving case Child can make at daybreak to redirect attention (part of why I rushed to say “too obvious for flippy”).

Spoiler: VCA

The spoiler title is misleading, as what follows is more wagon analysis that votecount analysis. The Dici wagons were functionally the same, with the only difference being Amzela substituted for Clem.

EGL was on the wagon both times, but he was the most resistant both times as well – Unvoting in 216 after Clem’s intent, really pushing Amzela hard (223, 247, 278), and seeming to resist the culmination of the second wagon on dici 358 – again pushing Amzela 360 --until three different slots pressured the hammer (366).

URAP was on the wagon both times, but unlike EGL as a vocal and enthusiastic participant -- 249, 361. That’s worth strengthening my townread.

Finally, simply from the timing and flow of the wagons, I think Amzela was the townspewed as a LHF counterwagon to potentally save Dici. Again, I this is why I scumread Child’s evolution to voting Amzela and want to lynch him. But even assuming Child flips green, my gut says Amz was a counterwagon to scum, not a double-trapped partner. Gut on this is however weaker than the URAP logic above.

I think there is a lot more info to be gleaned out of the NK as well as the flip. But I want to call upon @Child ..... I can share my thoughts after that.

@URAP2, I'd rather have my NKA out in case I die tonight, and Id rather wait to publish mine at least until Child gets prodded. So I am going to gum up the works a bit today. Sorry (not sorry).

I liked the line "he's so town his middle name is And Country." That was good. I don't understand though why you targeted Clem with your night role. Clem was in your "sort zone." For tracker, roleblocker, or cop, wouldn't it have made more sense to target Child, your chief scum suspect?

For Jailkeeper, wouldn't it have made more sense to either target me to protect me if I was your strongest town read and you expected me to die, or Child, your biggest scum suspect, to prevent him from using his role?

As Watcher, wouldn't it have made the most sense to see who visited me if you expected me to die?

This post assumes there will be a night phase after lynching Child. We have four days left. If you're that unsure of the Child lynch, why the rush to hammer?

Moved [I liked the...me to die?] out of quotation 430 on request. --P

[EGL]

@Mod

I liked the line "he's so town his middle name is And Country." That was good. I don't understand though why you targeted Clem with your night role. Clem was in your "sort zone." For tracker, roleblocker, or cop, wouldn't it have made more sense to target Child, your chief scum suspect?

For Jailkeeper, wouldn't it have made more sense to either target me to protect me if I was your strongest town read and you expected me to die, or Child, your biggest scum suspect, to prevent him from using his role?

As Watcher, wouldn't it have made the most sense to see who visited me if you expected me to die?

That part wasn't meant to be written into the quotes from Teacher. Can you fix it for me?

[EGL]

It was supposed to go between my second and last quotes.

[EGL]

Teacher soft claimed.

[EGL]

Okay. Feel free to lynch.

[EGL]

Oh yeah I guess watcher isn't a thing in Newbie queue.

[EGL]

Crossing my fingers.

[EGL]

Sweet. No night kill

[EGL]

I'll go for a mass claim.

[EGL]

If it gets us the last scum.

[EGL]

I think we should all agree to it first.

[EGL]

I would like to propose a mass claim.

Thoughts?

I'm especially looking at you, Teacher.

Are you especially looking at him for thoughts or claim?

[EGL]

Vanilla townie.

[EGL]

So why did you decide to trust Clem? Meta or throwing darts?

[EGL]

Either. Both.

[EGL]

Analysis of or by me?

[EGL]

Great job! Lol I slept right through it

[EGL]

Xtoxm has signups open for a game in Coney Island. I've been thinking of signing up for that. It's 5/13 spots taken if anyone is interested. Since loop mentioned having some of us play together again.

Great call by u r a person 2 to role claim today.

I was really worried day 2 that teacher was the last scum and I was going to be today's mislynch. But thanks to p person and Clem, we won! Also awesome job by loop d1 ferreting out dici.

[EGL]

Redacted response to post meant for other thread. The rules about ongoing games are pretty strict. --P

[EGL]

[EGL]

Why did person get a PT?

[EGL]

I didn't know that was an option we could ask for.

[EGL]

Lol I love the last post in teacher's thread.

[EGL]

You people want to play another one together?

[EGL]

Fair enough. Maybe sometime down the line.

I think this is the first time I've been alive as town at the end of the game on this site.

[EGL]

I do hope Dici comes back though. Dead thread was empty too.

Agreed.

[EGL]

I did.