Newbie 1920: North America [Endgame]

[chennisden]

I don’t get people’s reads. Chennisden parks his vote on ASC and when I vote him, he suddenly starts defending himself, despite lurking all the time => nobody notices that

Chennisden makes 4 posts in which he still doesn’t give any reads at all or doesn’t contribute to town in any way => nobody notices that

But when I try to get information and keep the game moving, everybody is on it. Lynching me right now is the worst option possible for you. I tend to be at my peak performance Day2 and above. I don’t like this rvs stage because there is no information available, so I’m swinging at random to try and get it. That’s why I’m playing like this. Plus, chennisden even agreed with me on why he’d be a good lynch. There’s no information out there,I tried to make the most out of my engangements, but I only found town, no sign of scum. I wanted to pressure vote Persivul and I still do, but my own townblock doesn’t have the same agenda as me. If you poke persivul, he will respond.

I never agreed I'm a good lynch, just that I was the least bad mislynch.

Keep in mind no alignment thinks their lynch is a good one

[chennisden]

Also a lot of people have been asking me "why haven't you moved your vote off of ASC?"

I did. I voted scum reading for a little.

[chennisden]

thoughts:

scum reading is town

teacher actually leans town for me, but this is very subject to change

skellen is obvtown, but dangerous if scum - i recommend we pay attention to this slot

I don't like Wazoo's slot, he seems to know a lot more than he should

reads

[scum reading]

Keep in mind no alignment thinks their lynch is a good one

You wut? You push people people because you think they’re scum => they are a good lynch to the person pushing them. If they didn’t think it was a good push, they wouldn’t push it in the first place.

Please hammer me

[chennisden]

I'd appreciate a votecount (either official or unofficial) before I put my vote somewhere

[chennisden]

holy crap did we just lynch you?

crap

[scum reading]

No

[TheASC]

@Skellen, @TheAsc, are you both comfortable with the players you're voting right now?

I can get the ASC question, but why ask Skellen? She was on a wagon, not by herself. Why not ask the other person on the wagon as well? or ask Sekaedy as the other person on a vanity?

I presume Zeito was questioning Skellen as her vote was an RVS from before my controversial post and the wagon that followed it.

[chennisden]

Keep in mind no alignment thinks their lynch is a good one

You wut? You push people people because you think they’re scum => they are a good lynch to the person pushing them. If they didn’t think it was a good push, they wouldn’t push it in the first place.

Please hammer me

Why did you say this then

[chennisden]

nobody thinks a self lynch is a good thing -.-

[scum reading]

Because I wanna be hammered?

[scum reading]

It is when people make a case against someone for being active and getting reactions day one, when there’s no information on the table. I don’t even know how that’s scum in any situation tbh

[TheASC]

Skelleden, I take it you're a rather analytical person, thoughts on my interaction with teacher? Do you support my read on him? I'd like to get ASC and Zeito on this as well.

The interaction between scum reading and teacher seems natural and spontaneous. Doesn't seem scripted or rehearsed like I'd expect if one side was mafia, as I'd imagine mafia would want to be cautious of what they're saying.

[chennisden]

Zeito is town

@35 "I don't want to make a read based off of one post"

Zeito's reads on teacher also feel organically towny - they followed the mindset of town (though they could be faking as scum, it seems pretty organic to me)

[GrandWazoo]

My problem isn't with your activity, SR, but in the nature thereof. Bandwagon-hopping and "swinging at random" IS distracting, hence anti-town. As is your push on teacher, based on a single post (which was itself about the ASCwagon over a single post) It would be like me jumping on teacher over the RVS opening-tip analogy. Trivial points like this don't merit pushes unless you show they're part of a larger scum agenda.

As Persivul says, orchestrating wagons for "pressure" is futile. If you think someone's scum, just vote them and say why. Now nobody will feel pressured by your vote because the target knows it's not a serious wagon and you'll be voting someone else in a page or two.

It’s not distracting when I’m the only one generating discussions and getting reactions fam, I am filling pages by myself. It isn’t distracting because there are NO ON-GOING DISCUSSIONS when I am voting. There’s nobody else generating discussion, it’s only me, so you calling it a distraction doesn’t make any sense. Anything else you want me to address?

Swinging at random isn't generating anything but noise and confusion.

It's simply not true that you were the only player doing anything.

[Skellen]

It's that very erratic style of play that's striking me as anti-town. Wagon-hopping betrays a lack of conviction, at best. Directing investigative roles 77 out of the gate. "Pushing" a player that isn't here, as you said. Saying the chennisden wagon is would be a waste of time 158 then doing an instant 180 and voting them 162. Declaring "pressure vote" on Persival without actually voting. Voting me 149 for still being in RVS after I'd explicitly stated it was now a real vote 108. As for the 1v1 with teacher, I see both sides making a big deal over trivial matters. No problem with this in principle, since it often gives the other players insights into the two players' alignments. But in this case I didn't come away with any better idea on how to sort them. I don't know if his push on teacher was "bold" or just distracting.

I can see where you are coming from regarding the wagon-hopping etc., but what makes it in SR's case different from Persivul who is basically doing the same? (also with Sekaedy)
Yes, saying what PRs have to do is one of the biggest triggers for me I agree with you on that. I didn't persuaded it because when I did in my first game I was kind of told that it would be ok so I assumed that would be the consensus here, although it's a big no for me and scum-indicative.
He explained his change of mind regarding chennis imo well, although it is coming from the directing PRs issue.
The point about him saying your vote being RVS despite not being so as you stated already is valid, but I am not sure what to make of it. He has done this several times forgetting such things like with chennis' reads or during his 1v1 with teacher. Either he isn't paying that much attention to it or it's just in character for him. chennis might be able to say more about it.
I interpreted his push on teacher as testing out the waters to get a more clear impression of him. I agree that it ultimately was about trivial matters as he could have delved deeper with asking some questions about the motivation of teacher's townread instead of just the very existence of the townread. What do you think would be the intention of scum!SR pushing teacher about such a trivial matter? It would look odd to me if scum tries such a flashy push on the other most active player at Day 1.

I am not really convinced from scum!SR, but I must admit that some of your points are valid. It weakens at least my original townlean on him, also because I am not really a fan of shenanigans like "Please hammer me" while I have already seen scum doing similar stuff.

[Skellen]

Also a lot of people have been asking me "why haven't you moved your vote off of ASC?"

I did. I voted scum reading for a little.

Personally I am more interested why you never tried to win people over for ASC when you were so confident that he was scum and not why you didn't moved your vote off him.

I don't like Wazoo's slot, he seems to know a lot more than he should

Can you elaborate about that what makes you uneasy about GW?

[Skellen]

@SR:
The whole thing with pressuring Persivul that failed aside, why would you have liked to pressure him? I get it that you were unsatisfied with him letting teacher off the hook too fast, but his reasoning for doing so was solid as it showed that he was reflecting on his arguments which is imo rather a positive indication.

[Persivul]

A lynch on me would actually give zero information.

Why is that?

Last time I heard that argument, it was from scum. Just sayin'...

[scum reading]

@GW:
To begin with I usually have troubles with reading erratic players like SR. What indicates town in his case is his effort as he is aggressively lashing out in any directions to get a grip on other players. Although it bothers me that he tried twice to after the guy who hasn't even been in the thread for 2-3 days and is now finally getting replaced. In case of his interaction with teacher for me the most important post #152 is where he explains his motivation. I can sympathize with that attitude, because in my first game with teacher I had the very same mindset with instantly jumping at teacher at the first opening to get a better impression of his personality, even although definitely not that aggressive as SR does. Also I am doubting if scum!SR would have been that bold to provoke such a 1v1 with a player like teacher on Day 1 considering the attention it caused.

It's that very erratic style of play that's striking me as anti-town. Wagon-hopping betrays a lack of conviction, at best. Directing investigative roles 77 out of the gate. "Pushing" a player that isn't here, as you said. Saying the chennisden wagon is would be a waste of time 158 then doing an instant 180 and voting them 162. Declaring "pressure vote" on Persival without actually voting. Voting me 149 for still being in RVS after I'd explicitly stated it was now a real vote 108. As for the 1v1 with teacher, I see both sides making a big deal over trivial matters. No problem with this in principle, since it often gives the other players insights into the two players' alignments. But in this case I didn't come away with any better idea on how to sort them. I don't know if his push on teacher was "bold" or just distracting.

Chennisden has redeemed himself somewhat so

VOTE: SR

What makes you think he redeemed himself? It sounded like you had such a solid case on him.

Wagon hopping day one doesn't mean anything, there aren't serious accusation thrown, I'm just voting to get info. Your case on me feels forced and it is not objective at all. You already have me marked down as scum, so I can understand why you'd say anything to get my lynched, you're following guts. Wagon-hopping day one isn't a scum tell, that's later in the game. The fact that I didn't park my vote on a wagon should tell you more imo. I could've easily parked my vote on ASC and getting a lynch on her, but I town read her. You only have the wagon hopping and "distraction" case that I've proven to be wrong. Instead of tunneling me, how about you try and scum hunt for real.

[scum reading]

A lynch on me would actually give zero information.

Why is that?

Last time I heard that argument, it was from scum. Just sayin'...

If I flip town, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?
If I flip scum, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?

Give me a logical reasoning and then tell me if there's info from lynching me

[Persivul]

I don’t like you townreading people based on wording, I didn’t even give that post too much attention since it was rvs. You town read people based on single posts, just like you did with wazoo. Your reads smell funny,

you’re getting too defensive

, which is what I wanted.

What would you make of your own reaction to a wagon? You seem pretty defensive...

[Persivul]

I could've easily parked my vote on ASC and getting a lynch on her, but I town read her.

Are you saying you're good at convincing people to vote with you?

[Persivul]

If I flip town, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?
If I flip scum, who would the next accusation be thrown on to?

That's scummy af. I saw it at another site, so I tried it in my first scum game here. It didn't work.

[scum reading]

@SR:
The whole thing with pressuring Persivul that failed aside, why would you have liked to pressure him? I get it that you were unsatisfied with him letting teacher off the hook too fast, but his reasoning for doing so was solid as it showed that he was reflecting on his arguments which is imo rather a positive indication.

After I mentioned the "letting off the hook so easily" he followed up with a question for teacher. If a town would clear someone as not mafia, why would they keep interrogating them at someone's request, if not because they felt they were being scum read. What happened to your wazoo / teacher lynch, I thought it was available for the whole day, Persi