In post 297, Zeito wrote:Regarding scum reading (the player):
First off I think there's a line between wagon hopping and changing your reads, one is scummy and one is towny, but I'm leaning the latter on SR because it feels like they did it knowing they could be sr'd for it
#165 (and then later shifts onto Persivul).
In post 168, scum reading wrote:It’s not shady, I’m just a really indecisive person and I like to be as transparent as possible. I advocated for you not getting lynched in my first posts as well, I still stand by it, but regardless of the flip, I think this is the most beneficial lynch at the moment. Sorry, chennis
I think being indecisive is fair. I think we disagree on how far chennis would be helpful as an info-lynch if they flip town, though.
Also, I saw they asked to be hammered at some point. I do not know how to read defeatism.
However, scum reading has been putting townreads on players fairly unnecessarily,
#182 highlights my thoughts on this, I would like you to provide some reasoning with these if possible, even just 'gutread'.
Regarding chennis:
In post 168, scum reading wrote:It’s not shady, I’m just a really indecisive person and I like to be as transparent as possible. I advocated for you not getting lynched in my first posts as well, I still stand by it, but regardless of the flip, I think this is the most beneficial lynch at the moment. Sorry, chennis
In post 169, chennisden wrote:VOTE: scum reading
Advocating policy is something scum does.
Finding and lynching scum is something town does.
Like I said before, I had originally voted teacher after they voted chennis because it felt like chennis was an easy push. However, I'm starting to scumread chennis more and more.
#165
"Scumreading seems like he wants to prevent my mislynch, but then he switches to voting me very fast. / Shady shady" You do this immediately after, townreading scum reading in
#163 without much reasoning to do so, and then voting him after one post. Was your original townread just that frail?
You did give reasoning, however - "Advocating policy is something scum does." But I do feel he has a point, chennis would be an easy lynch in the later stages of the game. It comes off more to me as if he was just thinking it through more.
I'm inclined to vote chennisden, I think. I'll review at the bottom of my post.
Regarding GW:
In post 184, GrandWazoo wrote: In post 182, Skellen wrote:@GW:
To begin with I usually have troubles with reading erratic players like SR. What indicates town in his case is his effort as he is aggressively lashing out in any directions to get a grip on other players. Although it bothers me that he tried twice to after the guy who hasn't even been in the thread for 2-3 days and is now finally getting replaced. In case of his interaction with teacher for me the most important post #
152 is where he explains his motivation. I can sympathize with that attitude, because in my first game with teacher I had the very same mindset with instantly jumping at teacher at the first opening to get a better impression of his personality, even although definitely not that aggressive as SR does. Also I am doubting if scum!SR would have been that bold to provoke such a 1v1 with a player like teacher on Day 1 considering the attention it caused.
It's that very erratic style of play that's striking me as anti-town. Wagon-hopping betrays a lack of conviction, at best. Directing investigative roles
77 out of the gate. "Pushing" a player that isn't here, as you said. Saying the chennisden wagon is would be a waste of time
158 then doing an instant 180 and voting them
162. Declaring "pressure vote" on Persival without actually voting. Voting me
149 for still being in RVS after I'd explicitly stated it was now a real vote
108. As for the 1v1 with teacher, I see both sides making a big deal over trivial matters. No problem with this in principle, since it often gives the other players insights into the two players' alignments. But in this case I didn't come away with any better idea on how to sort them. I don't know if his push on teacher was "bold" or just distracting.
Chennisden has redeemed himself somewhat so
VOTE: SR
Sorry if you've already responded to this, I'm reading through and typing these out as I go. How has chennisden redeemed themself?
In post 190, GrandWazoo wrote:My problem isn't with your activity, SR, but in the nature thereof. Bandwagon-hopping and "swinging at random" IS distracting, hence anti-town. As is your push on teacher, based on a single post (which was itself about the ASCwagon over a single post) It would be like me jumping on teacher over the RVS opening-tip analogy. Trivial points like this don't merit pushes unless you show they're part of a larger scum agenda.
As Persivul says, orchestrating wagons for "pressure" is futile. If you think someone's scum, just vote them and say why. Now nobody will feel pressured by your vote because the target knows it's not a serious wagon and you'll be voting someone else in a page or two.
GW has continually cited SRs posts as distracting, but it seems they weren't that distracting (since you obtained a scumread off of them). I'm assuming I'm being pedantic and you meant more like "they meant to be distracting" but I have to agree that there wasn't much to distract from - scum doesn't tend to distract town with themself, at least not from the games I've played.
I do feel GW is justified in reading SRs votes as wagon hopping, he does change his reads a little quickly, and they seem a little unstable. He has mentioned his votes are like this however (whether you trust self pmeta like that or not) and like I said before, he has recognised that wagon-hopping is scummy yet seems to continue to do so to push for reads.
Regarding Persivul
I think he's made some strong points and shows effort to scumhunt, although many of them do seem to be metas. I'm fairly unsure of this slot, but I don't think it's the lynch for today.
Why is that?
Last time I heard that argument, it was from scum. Just sayin'...
