Starcraft Mafia: Legacy of the Void [Game Over]

[popsofctown]

Reading

The word Buttercup and Blossom looks kinda the same, can Buttercup draw a cup when she signs \_/ I'll fill it with butter.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: unvote

[popsofctown]

whippersnappers explain how the new vote tags work to me

[popsofctown]

UNVOTE:

[popsofctown]

Alright boys, girls, pluralities, and inanimate object I'm done reading the thread.

Some people do a player by player on replacing in but I have a general policy of limiting commentary on my townreads because I think it guides the scum NKs to targets they know I am unwilling to help mislynch without providing much other benefit. The policy doesn't apply if there's a benefit to doing so, like keeping that person from getting mislynched.

Shiro would be an example of such an exception. I'm not feeling her lynch. It's less that I have an overt townread on her and more that it seemed to me like people started scumreading for NAI posts that could be construed to be AI. In particular there's that one early post with the parenthetical in it that had awkward sentence structure that I think would lose me points on a high school English paper but didn't see scummy.

I found Bubbles's case on Volxen pretty compelling (please call the PPGs by their character names, that's how they're signing their posts, and I don't know them or their meta, if you need to write meta just like put "Dexter/mith busses as scum"). There's a precept someone presented in a game once, about how, defending or justifying behavior that was initially scummy later on is inherently weaker than observing what happened in the first place, because after the fact the scum can understand exactly what you found scummy about it and whitewash that and also change behavior. Or something like that. The person who said it put it even more elegantly and convincingly. This concept has even more force in the case of a potential scum half of a hydra that might have blown the game for a partner and let them down. Because you're bringing forth a different motivation for acting protown than the original basis of the problematic behavior. I dislike PPG backing off and whitewashing it off the scorecard. I think Volxen can score some birdies and eagles later this game to make up for it, but it's still a bogey no matter what explanation MJL gives.

I'd like to see Chennisden hang. He doesn't seem to be trying to persuade other players to vote his scumreads. He's taking positions just to take positions and not playing to win the game. A lot of other stuff has already been said.

I agree the Wisdom slots had scummy early posts and don't like his recent play either. I am really torn about mechanically whether it's correct to leave someone alive N1 in light of a BP claim. But the slot can hang in light of the slot's day play.

[popsofctown]

What's lhf?

[popsofctown]

Looked at a votecount, seems too late in the day to vanity vote Wisdom so VOTE: chennisden

[popsofctown]

@FlavorLeaf, I don't see any point in sorting a slot unless it's a high candidate for lynch I want to support, a high candidate for lynch I want to shoot down, or a new wagon I'm trying to create. I explained as much.

A lot of the justification about how a premature claim fits into town psyche better than scum is true but is mitigated a lot by having a modprovided safeclaim. When a modprovided fakeclaim is available, "oh god I better make sure I don't get hammered before I even use my fakeclaim" is valid in a similar way to "oh god I better make sure I don't get hammered before I even mention I'm the doctor".
Except, it actually leans even further the other way, since shadow's PR doesn't help out the town.
Bulletproof on a scummy slot actually functions identically not having a PR at all. It's like hexproof on an 0/1 creature. I wouldn't expect the person claiming to think that far with it. But I would expect them to hesitate more.
Which I guess he did, now that I remember my slot told him to claim, which is cancerous, I'm big on mechanically correct play, I wish the mod had warned
me.

I'd really prefer if we moved the game to a focus on scummy play and not this mechanical stuff (which is hypocritical in this post I guess but Hypocrisy Is Not A Scumtell). When people have honest differences of opinions on the right way to do night actions and there's possible roles you don't even know about and it just gets messy and doesn't build on itself and get you as far. Like PPG's push on Liger isn't really improving the game it doesn't really make Liger scum that he's an awful cop or whatever.

[popsofctown]

Let chennisden claim first

Surely you can make deadline

There are three of you

[popsofctown]

Claimed investigatives should be left alive. They will probably get NK'd, but if they don't, you can sheep their investigations, then come lynch them if the investigation outcomes are wrong.

If you think it's 95% likely a claimed investigative is scum then that "risks" mislynching on their command, but in reality mafia is hard and the most impressive of any nonGlork dayplay is like 40% sure X is scum when only 20% of the playerlist is scum, so it's correct play to leave an investigative alive to do work.

[popsofctown]

What's pocket mean?
This kimono doesn't have any pockets.

[popsofctown]

Of course, there’s always exceptions but in general, unless you have a situation with nearly tied wagons, late stragglers are more likely to be town because scum knows it looks bad.~BC

Ah, so what I should actually do, is drink from the wine right here in front of me.

[popsofctown]

Volxen is still scum, and because of that I'd bet shiro and chenn are both probably town.

Ya'll should step up and make a volxen lynch happen.

Bubbles is worried about the lack if resistance to Chenn wagon and thinks they’re probably flipping town. We both dislike MJL not giving any reads.

I also wondered why she needed every post reviewed by Volxen? Does that really make sense to anyone?

~Buttercup the wondering

It makes sense to me.
If she views it as mostly his account she doesn't want to white-knight someone Volxen wants dead so much they become not a viable lynch, she wants to try convincing him that person is innocent. And vice versa.
I buy that part, I'm more suspicious she didn't at least make low level participation in the early game like joining the shitposting or, if she's above that, posing some questions.

For chennisden's noise to content ratio the canter speed of his wagon didn't seem like a "lack of resistance" to me.

[popsofctown]

Moongrass why

If all his reads are OMGUS that power isn't going to be aimed well enough to average better than VT chennisden, if it's true.

Whilst it sounds plenty like a provided claim.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Wisdom

[popsofctown]

you really were town? Wisdom is the game bastard??

[popsofctown]

ok but PMing you "you're replacing in for shadow and you can't NK people ok" and PMing alchemist "Wisdom can NK people ok" is kind of bastard.

I guess I have to assume alchemist is a lyncher that would have a play motivation to do that d2.

TBH lynchers are almost bastard in the "criminally bad mafia design" sense.

[popsofctown]

SO SPEAKETH THE WISDOM OF THE COP WHO CLAIMED D1

[popsofctown]

Shiro pls don't shoot me ok?

I'm not worried about RCE but you have shifty eyes

[popsofctown]

Shiro's eyes, not yours.

And shifty as in like shady.

If you watch the NGNL anime the Shiro character doesn't have a remarkably strong moral compass iirc.

[popsofctown]

Liger are you familiar with LAL?

[popsofctown]

You mean both me and liger right rce? URAP is basically IC right now.

[popsofctown]

After N1 when the mafia shot a protown VT instead of you you just kept up with the gambit????

[popsofctown]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

[popsofctown]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

What?

Wisdom didn't flip BP scum like I expected him to, he flipped goon.

Claiming BP makes more sense if he can Proof a Bullet somehow. It's not high on the list of attractive claims to start with.

Maybe I'm overestimating shadow by an awful lot.

[popsofctown]

Flavorwise would roles be confined to commanders and unit/building types? Are actions like warp or orbital scan possible? Keep in mind I don't know the actually names just the SC basics.

@Krazy, does the privilege of getting help with flavor for fakeclaims apply to townies.

RCE has inspired me to want to see what a "drop Mules" role pm would look like.

Ostensibly town aligned players are also fakeclaiming in a manner that furthers the scum wincon, so it seems like this service should be equal opportunity to everyone. Let's ignore that I want to abuse it for entertainment value and not actually claim it.

[popsofctown]

ITT Liger Zero doesn't understand why pro town day focused players would be NKed over implausible setup obfuscating fakeclaimers. More news at 11. Please visit our facebook page

[popsofctown]

omg.

I'm PMing Krazy to help me make a M.U.L.E. role.

It will be a bullshit role where vigging it or lynching it doesn't stop it from winning with the mafia, in the true spirit of a bullshit Terran mechanic.

I don't care if I get tempbanned from large themes.

[popsofctown]

ITT Liger Zero doesn't understand why pro town day focused players would be NKed over implausible setup obfuscating fakeclaimers. More news at 11. Please visit our facebook page

I get you don't like my play, but you being a dick about it is getting annoying.

Sorry

I'm not really sure FL was a smart kill, actually, and I think your musing is actually really fair in a vacuum and in the context of the game. FL (apparently) has a strong reputation but I don't think he did that much this game.

But in the context of site meta people tend to fanclub specific players and awful lot and kill them over and over and then that strategy spreads enough you can't do NKA and it's a boring world . So sadly a personality dying is never informative.

[popsofctown]

Almost, be sure to lay out any of yours and/or Flavorleaf's cases for us in case you don't live through the night.

Liger might get dogpiled to L-0 in less than a day.

[popsofctown]

Yeah forgot yesterday was a thing VOTE: Liger would also kill pops today fwiw.

Pops isn't dead, so what's your point?

I think he's trying to summon a dayvig upon me.

ooooooh maybe it even happened. Maybe moongrass alien'd me, and I don't get informed, and the dayvig was in PMs.

Moongrass you love me right?

[popsofctown]

Whats scummy about pops btw? I don't see it.

I was on chennis wagon d1 and I really wonder if I could have had better play than that.

In addition to not hitting scum it hasn't produced much information.


pedit: no, my username is more ancient than my involvement with mafia.

[popsofctown]

URAP should be treated as town guys. When you add up the likelihood there's no bus driver, that the bus driver is odd, even, or limited quantity shots, that the bus driver just shot somewhere else, that the bus driver did shoot at URAP, but the bus driver shot at !URAP Town and another town player and therefore it is totally moot anyway, there's a very slim fraction of mafia games left to lose because you took a very small leap of faith.

[popsofctown]

Actually yeah that's interesting. That might actually make pops town in hindsight when they hushed up my questioning your 1 shot claim.

I prefer either the "he" pronoun or "she" pronoun. Control panel won't let me set that.
I guess maybe I should sig it?

[popsofctown]

Liger is probably mafia doctor, right?

"I shot shadow he's actually BP"
"I saw Liger target shadow N1"

Those things both get covered by claiming to be a cop investigating shadow N1.

Did I miss something or am I falling asleep way too early?? I don't get this post.

If you missed it you wouldn't be the only person who missed that shadow claimed BP but didn't have BP status.

As was discussed day1, fakeclaiming BP as scum when you are actually vulnerable to kills pseudo-upgrades any town vig to a town cop, a more powerful role. The vig shoots the claimed BP and then the bullet only works if Lynch all Liars is valid.

Another "way" of being BP is being on a scumteam that has a mafia doctor. So compared with the average dead goon, shadow/wisdom is more likely to have a mafia doctor partner.

Liger claimed day1 that he would investigate Wisdom. That means he claimed to the whole town that he would have an ostensibly protown reason that any watchers or trackers in the game would see him targetting Wisdom. If Liger was a town doctor, targetting Wisdom would be obviously indefensible play. But having claimed cop, he gets to claim he was seen targetting Wisdom because he was investigating him, when he was actually protecting him.

The theory is mostly for fun, I don't think it is super alignment indicative on anyone, wish I rolled backup mason so I could sketch it out for you without cluttering the thread >_<

[popsofctown]

Nope, I'm not an alt and have no alts (aside from playing one or two action games as "KirbyHero")

[popsofctown]

The OP says that kill flavor of the mafia indicates the mafia player's -role-. Not their flavor, their -role-. Wisdom didn't perform either kill. Therefore the murderer has not been a goon.
Incineration has a natural strongman flavor to it. Yet if it is a strongman, Alchemist21 should be dead.
But there is something Special about Alchemist21. Aside from having a powerful PR. He is in one of the corners of the playerlist. What if the mafia want to kill him, but they can't reach him with the strongman kill? Here's the relevant positionings (some of the bottom is cut off because it wouldn't matter.) Liger_Zero claimed investigative day 1 and is also high in the player order, so he was also possibly difficult to reach.

Alchemist21
Liger_Zero
Flavor Leaf
Cerberus v666
Shiro

Powerpuff Girls

RCEnigma
popsofctown
Iconeum

Alchemist21
Liger_Zero

Flavor Leaf

Cerberus v666
Shiro
popsofctown
RCEnigma
Iconeum

Strongman of range 1 is a pretty draconian restriction. No player fulfills that possibility anyway.
Strongman of range 2 could be Shiro or Cerberus. However Cerberus strongman of range two had the opportunity to shoot Liger D1. If you have Liger as scum right now this doesn't present a problem. Shiro as strongman of range 2 never has access to Liger_Zero or alchemist but has access to Flavor Leaf and PPE, good protown NKs. So Shiro fits perfectly regardless of Liger's alignment.
Strongman of range 3 could be me. I would never have had an opportunity to shoot Alchemist or Liger zero.
Strongman of range 4+ seems uninteresting and too close to "strongman".

It's a little speculative I guess. I think at a base level the NKs are pretty counterintuitive NKs though.

[popsofctown]

See, he's not a lyncher, yet after Liger gets lynched his range 2 eyes will reach alchemist.

It fits so beautiful.

[popsofctown]

Volxen's catch up post is really hollow.

I don't really want to vote Liger after reading his content as seeming town all day. His play is very dumb as both scum and town and I think it moves the needle scum but I have a hard time feeling it. Moreso it doesn't seem like I really need to make the effort to decide since his lynch seems inevitable anyway.

[popsofctown]

Yeah, but not on a Sunday

[popsofctown]

Liger_Zero(5) ~ Alchemist21(1), u r a person 2(1), Hydra TBD(1), Moongrass(1), Shiro(1)
Iconeum(2) ~ RCEnigma(21), Liger_Zero(45)


Not Voting (5): popsofctown(18), Volxen MJL Combo Pack(1), Iconeum(0), Almost50(26), Cerberus v666(2)
If there's a votecount in this post I used it to pull player names and forgot to delete it


Alchemist21 - mechanically confirmed town (99% at least)
u r a p - mechanically confirmed town (slightly more, not less, than alchemist, actually, contrary to prevailing sentiment. The other kind of "bus" is more likely but neither is very likely at all)
Almost50 - mechanically confirmed town (100%) (you can breadcrumb your mason partner without softing mason, FL should upgrade their game next time. Just hide a series of obscure popculture references in your post and explain to your mason partner in the PT how to untangle them. It's not cryptography. Works for me every time)

Hydra TBD - Hydra TBD is extremely unmemorable. Does this user even have an avatar? If they do I can't remember it. Force of PoE puts this player on a scumteam. They are playing so below the radar. And there's two of them, so it's half as likely. If anything, they'd be less suspicious if they'd been prodded, but I don't think they have, some kind of echo of popular sentiment or weak probe appears like clockwork from the activity requirement.

Moongrass - Moongrass is almost certainly an alien, it's such a weak role that it's not suspicious that he's still alive. But the same thing he was told works in reverse, he could still be scum.
I was a little unimpressed by his flipflop on Chennisden D1. It seemed a little people-pleasey.
I think mechanics point towards him being town though. One thing is that the role name is "alien". Which is a racial name. And the scum/town flavor for this game is protoss vs. zerg. So.. it's kind of a modslip.
I don't actually know if Chennisden's character was an alien in the sense that no Protoss are humans, or alien in the sense that it's from a different galaxy than most of the other protosses. Either way from my vague recollection of the campaign that's more protossish than zergish because zergs are more collectivist and are always in this one big blobby swarm. If it's the former and we have excellent mindgames mod it could be a zerg alien and a protoss alien but I think it's maybe kind of a modslip.

The other mechanical thing that leans town to me is that he proactively claimed his action for last night, and I don't think the scums can multi-act. So he's at least not the one with the Eyes.

Shiro - Shiro is ugh. All terse snippets and has developed into a strong tunnel on Liger. This could be a scum player who has found a plausible stance to pin themselves to and a drum to bang and a way to get ignored, or it could be a town player who had a gut read that snowballed in layers of more and more confirmation bias (especially since Liger is prolific) until it's gotten to something unrecognizable to the other players, whose initial reads might have been only slightly different before the butterfly effect.
Shiro, there's a rule of thumb that townies who are tunneling also analyze other players, if for no other reason than to make themselves readable to the other players. Could you do that? Am I scum?
I put a little bit of weight into ranged strongman theory, see a previous post.

Iconeum - VOTE: Iconeum
I iso'd the n1 action stuff that was brought up, and I didn't like it.
It's not that it's not correct. It's very possible that Iconeum was very correct, that a BP should either be lynched or not investigated at all.
The problem is that the theory position wasn't paired with an actual stance on Wisdom's slot. There was no "shadow should be lynched or not investigated at all, and by the way, he's scummy, so he should be lynched.". And there was no "shadow should be lynched or not investigated at all, and by the way this was a red herring lynch pushed by scum, , so it's the second one." It didn't take a stance.
For a different player maybe I wouldn't care, but I feel like it's natural to draw a strong read off of shadow's day 1 play. Liger's terribly wrong read in the totally opposite direction is more plausible than Iconeum's apparent lack of read on the slot.

RCEnigma -
This slot is town. RCEnigma gives me butterflies rather than not. This was the result of a measured, logical process.
I can reread and try to figure out why, later, maybe.
Normally I avoid calling out townreads but since we have 3 mechanical innocents I guess I can.

Liger_zero -
I have a weaker gut town read here, that has suffered a lot by the whole, fake claiming cop with an innocent on scum. That was obviously a big deal.
Liger is doing a very very poor job not getting lynched. Not just in the claim way but the way he posts. He posts when there is nothing to say. He posts to fight with people instead of de-escalating. He seems to have like no backspace key and the backspace key is scummy.
He hasn't postured his cop nonsense in any kind of way that remotely makes him look good. What kind of sane mafia player wouldn't bus shadow for cred? I mean before Wisdom replaced in, you could probably bus him for cred even if he flipped town, the guy claimed BP at L-eleventyseven.

Volxen MJL Combo Pack -
I kinda want to lynch this slot just to sheep townies. Bubbles and chennisden both wanted to lynch Volxen.
The case that was made about Vxjolisa's day 1 play is still good, but there hasn't been lots of progress since then. MJL's claim of the game flooding over her head is far more plausible in this phase of the game than it was in D1.

I didn't like this slot's recent post. It was just a bunch of no-duh direct stuff about how to line up Liger's play against LAL and the basic Theorem (can't remember the name people called that. The one where scum are more likely to do things that directly help the scum wincon, like hammer town or roleblock a claimed cop). I would expect !town combo to go further and make some nonobvious observations, about Liger or someone else. Instead it looks like !scum combo has confused measuring their contribution in alignment indication with measuring their contribution in terms of enthusiasm, effort, and logical ground covered, etc. Since concluding Liger is 100% scum is a lot of alignment indication it's a bulky post by that measure, but since it's a very mechanical decision and mechanics are an interruption to a stream of reads and social play as town, it's only an inch that way. Not that you measure your own posts to make sure you've said enough as town - you'll actually want to, you know, all that. Just not on a Sunday.

Spoiler: not game related

today i don't feel like doin anythang; i just wanna lay in my BAYEDDD. don feel like pickin up my PHONE so leave a message at the tone; cuz today i swear i'm not doin anythang, NUTHIN AT ALL

Cerberus666 - Cerberus has not been heavily engaged with the game, which objectively points scum. It's been resonant to me though, he seems most frustrated when the last few pages are tough reads, and his justifications seem similar to what mine would be. Sometimes larges are dense. So I just kind of buy it. He's asked for a chance to solve the game and with the claims D2 today is "D2" so he's going to get at least a little bit of a bye from me.
I get super annoyed by his username and avatar and that this game has a bunch of hydras but then he's not actually a hydra and can make legitimate RL excuses to not be around. Such a flavor fail.




That's most of where I am with this game right now.

[popsofctown]

Are you saying you want someone to threaten the hammer before you claim?

[popsofctown]

I'm V/LA May 1-7

[popsofctown]

I'll just be less involved.

[popsofctown]

Hider.

[popsofctown]

Liger how do I read Shiro?
halp

[popsofctown]

I'm isoing Shiro since my contribution is about to drop soon and all that

K. Liger walk. Me through why you didn't check me? Wisdom was being pretty transparently town, yet you were certain I am scum and didn't manage to lynch me, you spent a good amount of day 1 trying to convince people to do so, yet why didn't you attempt to seal the deal?

This kinda reads like a townslip.

[popsofctown]

I want you to wait to hammer until I'm on V/LA so I only neglect obligations for five days instead of seven.

That's not necessarily a request you should honor.

I actually don't want you to hammer at all because I don't think Liger is scum.

[popsofctown]

625 699 859
all clearly say what I thought about Shadow slot and claim.

After Wisdom replaced, it got exceedingly difficult to lynch there.

625 takes a negative and refuses to shake the polaroid until it becomes a photograph. It is exactly what I'm talking about.

[popsofctown]

I've never seen a game get ruined because a questionable claim happened and the person lived too long.

In my experience people just forget about it.

I've seen it lose the game when that person was scum but that's not what people are alleging here.

[popsofctown]

VOTE: VolxenVOTE:
Shame on me for not keeping better notes, but I didn't realize Iconeum was alien'd. It's still a strong read for me, but not strong enough I'm happy with a 50% or 33% penalty, depending on how big the scumteam is (4 in a large?)

[popsofctown]

VOTE: Volxen

[popsofctown]

But that’s what makes pops fit nicely into my theory that if Liger’s Town then scum stayed off that wagon.

And yeah it’s kind of a pre-flip associative but we have 3 confTown today and I want to take advantage of our numbers while we can because scum are going to start picking us off one by one.

Pre-flip associatives are the kind of high-risk, high-reward lines you need in a town that's behind catching up. Town is way ahead right now, so this seems like a bit of a Hail Mary in the first quarter.

If I flip town, are you going to lynch Liger the next day anyway? If lynching me will sate your paranoia and send you down the directions I've posted about (Ico, Volxen, not Liger, not RCE), I don't think I mind that much, given the lead. But I'm now very worried you are going to do Not That and follow the more common trend of not following dead townies' suggestions. See: PPG was NKed and Volxen has had a hall pass for doing whatever they like ever since. Lining up two misses and funneling dialogue in a large that already missed a full day 2 is looking like a really scary throw here.

[popsofctown]

Me: No.....thats not what we agreed to!

With all due respect; I wouldn't count too much on my own reads if I were you. I mean, you're clearly having an off game. How about you play game and vote Pops for now?

You posted from your PT that you had myself and URAP as scum. And Alchemist investigated URAP and was surprised to find that it cleared URAP. So maybe every player in this game should play with an equal dose of humility. It's a great tool against natural confirmation bias, whether you're having a bad game or the best game of your life.

[popsofctown]

What does LAMIST stand for?

[popsofctown]

If I flip town, are you going to lynch Liger the next day anyway?

Probably.

So I really want a good reason to be voting pops and I am not seeing one here.

Also if he’s scum he can probably go to endgame, and the best chance of lynching a scum pops is now while we have 3 confTown to push it.

I don't follow your logic here. Do I have some sort of special qualities where !scumPops is harder to lynch than !scumLiger, !scumRCE, !scumShiro, any other particular slot? What is that special quality? Is it the kimono?


But more importantly I really think the logic is getting too Rube Goldberg and we're getting pretty far from urap's suggestion he made on D1 or D2 that a really good strategy is to just lynch scum.

With a lynched scum and 3 clears, -any- lynch that hits red today is close to gamewinning. Do you actually think I'm the most likely to flip red in the thread? If you do, then go with that, by all means. If not, tell me who you think the most likely to flip red in the game, and lynch that player. Connections and indirect information consequences should only ever be tiebreakers and tiny prods.

"He refused to hammer a town-aligned player*. *we haven't found out whether the player is town-aligned yet" is definitely too convoluted a case to stand on its own, so I'd want to hear something more. Bash Vedith's play, at least, before I got my role pm I was expecting I'd be getting a list of partners, to be honest.

[popsofctown]

notwithstanding that I don't agree with lots of your townreads list, a final conclusion that you've worked out a blueprint for a "50%" way to win the game sounds like playing to lose.

[popsofctown]

You posted from your PT that you had myself and URAP as scum. And Alchemist investigated URAP and was surprised to find that it cleared URAP. So maybe every player in this game should play with an equal dose of humility. It's a great tool against natural confirmation bias, whether you're having a bad game or the best game of your life.

i think i'm having a pretty okay game tbh

I was not on chenn

and i was on wisdom

Yes I wasn't addressing you and I certainly can't call "when you point a finger three fingers point back at you" on you, you haven't made a bad read yet this game (except on me, but that's only visible from my PoV). So that's why I left you out.

[popsofctown]

I actually was not aware that U2 was heavily reading Volxen when I made my post, I guess in a similar lack of awareness to not knowing that Ico was roleblocked last night.

[popsofctown]

I definitely try to avoid discredit lines of argument when I play either alignment, but A50 had asked Liger to to discredit his own reads so it is kind of a fight fire with fire thing.

[popsofctown]

liger would've been lynched long ago if he were actually town

townies are opposing that easy lynch is forcing the scum into a corner. they didn't see that one coming so they skipped planning for it.

Your thesis seems to be that Liger offwagon is a mix of blend-in scum and townies. So why am I in the scum pile, not the " townies making an easy lynch hard" pile?

I did, in contrast to others who mostly didn't bother with parroting the obvious, state "I think this lynch will probably happen anyway", and I could see how that fits into your thesis if scum expecting a towndriven lynch. But, that sorting only works if scum have a stronger reason to believe little Liger will be easy-lynch than town do. Being biased by actual knowledge that Liger is !scum Liger works. But you're not arguing Liger is scum. You're advocating the same horrifying sequence alchemist has advocated for, where I need to be lynched because if Liger is town, I'm scum, but then if I flip town, Liger needs to be lynched, and from my PoV it's two straight mislynches and from anyone else's PoV it's still preflip conditional logic which is objectively sketchy play.

[popsofctown]

Honestly I am admittedly starting to wonder if I should apply "lynch people who didn't take a strong stance on shadow" more broadly to stealth bombers like Hydra and maybe cerb rather than singling out I'm for pairing that sin with night play discussion related to shadow

[popsofctown]

He tried to push the idea that alchemist was lying

Also, Pops flipping TOWN clears Liger (!!!). Liger seems adamant we don't lynch Pops even at the expense of his own life. Now tell me why "caught scum" would defend a townie this hard??

I want my lynch mob to either co-sign to this concept, or elect a different plan for the town.

At this point I'm very happy being mislynched with the thinking that it clears Liger. We'd get something.

Almost50's argument is independently strong, anyway.


I'm kind of starting to townread Shiro's posts. Forgetting that Almost50 is conftown is kind of resonant, sorry Almost50. But also some of her drabble is just.. I don't know I townlean. I guess it shouldn't be too much.

After you kill me you should go after the stealth helicopters, I feel like those have to be the scum in this game by poe.

[popsofctown]

I'll sheep Liger with VOTE: Cerberus66 and ask him to explain it to me later, I'm going to take my V/LA pass at least somewhat seriously.

[popsofctown]

I'm not gonna claim without L-1 plus Threat.

So hustle.

I'd consensus lynch pretty much anyone but RCE. Not sure whether I would hop on for Liger.

[popsofctown]

RCE basically claimed PR for me on day 2 it you'd paid more attention. I found this rather annoying and antitown, but I still think he's town.

Please pay attention.

There are an awful, awful lot of roles weaker than IC, which is what a VT the town agrees not to lynch functions as.

Obviously, I would rather not be lynched at all, that's true of any alignment but jester. But I'm going to try my damnedest to make this two day mislynches sequence thing not happen

[popsofctown]

I win! This was such a fun game!

[popsofctown]

Cerberus I hope your back turns out O.K.

[popsofctown]

Actions

n1: adjacency doc (pops) moves up 1
Joat (Alchemist) gets a gunsmith guilty on goon (Wisdom)
Amon (Cerb) performs factional kill on Powerpuff Girls
Scum joat (Volxen) uses the charge of BP

n2: adjacency doc (pops) activates (1 charge remaining)
Gun Vendor (RCE) vends to Flavor Leaf
Alch cops URAP (Town aligned)
Moongrass blocks Iconeum
Amon factionally kills Flavor Leaf
Volxen watches Liger (No visits)

n3: Volxen tracks RCE (no visit)
Cerb kills Alch

n4: Hydra kills Nero Cain
RCE guns Nero Cain
Moon blocks Volxen
Volxen uses Godfather shot (blocked)

n5: Cerb shoots Moongrass

Cerb killed us?

I was on my way but I didn't make it in time!!!

[popsofctown]

I couldn't bring this up in the game without rolefishing myself, but RCE why did you claim no-movement D2? Our name positions switched, it was imperceptible to scum whether I moved up or you moved down.
By saying you don't know why my name moved you're claiming not to have the PR that moved it. As it turns out my PR was more powerful than yours, IMO, if you are hipster enough to disagree with that, it could have been adjacency cop for all you know. But you opened me up to increased roleblocking for little discernible benefit. I was trying to protect you.

[popsofctown]

I mean later you outright killed me. But this is a paper and pencil mechanics aspect, why did you play that way?

[popsofctown]

Krazy ninja'ed me.

Total indian giver on that 1-shot ninja the mafia didn't use I guess

[popsofctown]

Also, i get your point FB. I guess it just feels so egregious because it's based on something you can't actually control if you choose to login, and because other, similar pushes are based on an action taken, rather than the absence of any action, which you then attach meaning to.

Like, do we really want to oush people to never read their games unless they're prepared to make posts as well? Because that's what this does.

And just another point...I've definitely noted such things myself, and used it as another data point...but I've never used it as part of a case against someone. Bringing it to the thread is definitely ageist the spirit of the rules.

I mean the game isn't locked from you viewing it offline....and liger couldn't see offline reading.

Agreed. But this, again, requires a rather ridiculous departure from what is likely the normal behavior of people to...log into their account, to avoid this particular brand of angleshooting.

Not logging in means site navigation, which is just another barrier to play.

And then if you do run into something you want to reply to, now theres that delay between deciding to post and being able to post. Not a huge thing, but it can definitely mess with how organic your posting is as any alignment.

I'm less empathetic to this because it's a hydra. And in the dead thread, Stealth hydra seemed to express as much.

When you decide to form a hydra, you decide that you are going to have twice as much manpower in your slot, twice as many brains forming reads/PR Hunting, and/or a baked in excuse for expressing reads that go in one direction but establishing a mislynch voting record in a different direction. The least you can do in exchange is either adopt a high involvement playstyle or bother with the two additional clicks for site navigation to obfuscate when you actually read the game. Letting you choose between those is pretty generous. Because opponents that didn't use a hydra are going to either make far more clicks just from hitting "Iso Alice, Iso Bob", to say nothing of committing a lot more to the game to stay on par.

This stuff doesn't apply to individual accounts the same way. I might log in to check a mishmash game I am moderating or something so my logins mean less. I might log in just out of habit then immediately close the window because I need to be doing something more important.

[popsofctown]

I couldn't bring this up in the game without rolefishing myself, but RCE why did you claim no-movement D2? Our name positions switched, it was imperceptible to scum whether I moved up or you moved down.
By saying you don't know why my name moved you're claiming not to have the PR that moved it. As it turns out my PR was more powerful than yours, IMO, if you are hipster enough to disagree with that, it could have been adjacency cop for all you know. But you opened me up to increased roleblocking for little discernible benefit. I was trying to protect you.

If you had moved down I probably wouldn't have said anything but you moved in FL's direction whom I was hard townreading and thought that was your target. A50 was also up there but after the Mason claim came out you didn't move and I realized... I was just really bad. Then I still voted you to bait scum on your wagon. Really sorry q.q

My number 1 goal in moving was PPG for the record. Was my strongest townread early on.