micro 871: mystery box of silver 4 (G O)

[nomnomnom]

Like, there is ONE reason why I would consider Otter here.

But even then that reason is just quickly proven wrong given the existence of a watch PT still in the pool.

It just makes no sense.

[nomnomnom]

what is the benefit to scum of making more pt's (and giving town more power) than they absolutely have to?

I still don't understand this

If this is true information, then why would scum give town two PT's today

It's already lylo. So if scum is giving us two PT's, does that mean they were pretty confident they were getting lynched today?

I was put in a PT with C/N last night

Hey LuckyOtter remember when I commented on how it seemed unusual that nom wasn't in the PT with me? (Or something to that effect, pretty sure I posted that? I certainly THOUGHT it at the very least.)

This explains that.

At this stage, I'm willing to bet the game on this:
VOTE: Chito & Nuko

Now this kinda resonates in my head.

[nomnomnom]

And.
Triple fuck you, because by putting me in the pt last night, you significantly reduced the odds I'd be voted, meaning that I probably WILL have that hammer.

insane scum pings with this sentence too

[nomnomnom]

Like I'm just running through the scenarios here.

If Otter is scum why make a rolestop PT with two townies and risk a 50/50 given that the protection only goes on me or Otter tonight?
Same reasoning for me pretty much.

Isn't it literally simpler for scum!otter to just make any other PT configuration (and most likely one with him) so he doesn't screw himself over?

It makes no sense. You must be scum.
If otter is scum congratulations you basically paved the way to win for him. But I just believe you're going for the long pocket game on Otter and that the self-lynching gambit you sold me in our PT was just words and a farce, and that your kill on chutes is just a last desperate attempt at trying to confuse town and lead it to its destruction like you've done these 2 first days.

VOTE: Mastina

[nomnomnom]

Rolestopping wouldn't block me, it would block all actions on me. It makes me an ascetic BP for the night.

I am still cleared by the mechanics of this game though, so yeah. Mastina's just trying to gambit and failing at it.

[nomnomnom]

I'd like to point out also:
Parachute's rolestop was on themselves until just before deadline. I didn't know Parachute had changed targets until it'd have been too late.

Thus.
For me to be scum.
I'd have to have banked on ME winning the draw.

Because again.
Parachutes self-rolestopped; for me to have killed them, I'd have had to target them KNOWING that they self targeted.

When they DID realize what rolestops do, they self-protected instead of protecting nom. BUT THEN, they later changed their protection target to match mine, nom.

That last minute addition rofl

[nomnomnom]

Rolestopping wouldn't block me, it would block all actions on me. It makes me an ascetic BP for the night.

I am still cleared by the mechanics of this game though, so yeah. Mastina's just trying to gambit and failing at it.

Ok ok.

Right, so you and c&n couldn't have been on the same pt. Unless you made that up, and also the rule about nightless phases. I mean it's a huge stretch and mastina/cn makes more sense to me but I'll still have to think on it.

C/N and I can't be be scums by the fact we were put in a PT together, yeah.

[nomnomnom]

scums together*

[nomnomnom]

Rolestopping wouldn't block me, it would block all actions on me. It makes me an ascetic BP for the night.

I am still cleared by the mechanics of this game though, so yeah. Mastina's just trying to gambit and failing at it.

If the information that you gave yesterday is true? Sure!
You said that scum can't both be in a pt; you said that scum making an extra pt delays nightless; you said that you were in a pt with scum.

…Problem is?
You said that, not proven town. The only one who knows if your info is right, is you. I have no way of knowing that it's not scum telling a half truth and lying where convenient.

Don't pretend otherwise.

What's this over justification?

I should be scum from your POV, so what are you doing?

Also this is extremely gross given that you accepted that as gospel yesterday and a fast reason to push C/N out of the game, which is the thing that made me start worrying you could be masterminding all of this in the first place. And I guess I was right.

[nomnomnom]

Chutes was right, there was only one reason to give town this extra PT, and that's because they knew they didn't win this yesterday. C/N was scum-looking as fuck and you insta-bussed him.

[nomnomnom]

I role claimed VT to nom, but not publicly. If you were scum, you'd be worried about the possibility that I am a vengeful townie.

W H A T

[nomnomnom]

This is the definition of insanity.

The fact you are not voting me in a situation where the scum should be obvious to you but you say it isn't because "slowrolling" is just completely insane.

The fact you still believe there is a world where we're both town is just what the fuck

[nomnomnom]

Like that kind of discussion is insane because it's obvious you just never vote Otter here anyway. It's just pointless fluff. In a LYLO where you're practically caught scum.

[nomnomnom]

As scum, I make sure to take the least risky path that leaves me the most options.

I wouldn't call "forced to have a vote on a player and putting my destiny on the hands of a player that called me the lynchpin of the scumteam" the least risky path because that's what you're implying here.

[nomnomnom]

"Least risky path" would be to do this then make a post like this and implying you would get to hammer in this LYLO. Now THAT is a bunch of options to go for.

On the one hand, thank you scum for potentially game throwing. If Parachutes was left alive I'd have instavoted them, allowing for a scum win.

On the other hand.

Fuck you, scum. I'm in lylo. I didn't deserve to live past D2. Even with living, because I can be mislynched, I guess.
Unless I am voted, I probably am going to be the hammer vote, and I literally have no clue which of you it is.

Also.
Double fuck you, because regardless of which of you it is, you made me protect scum.

And.
Triple fuck you, because by putting me in the pt last night, you significantly reduced the odds I'd be voted, meaning that I probably WILL have that hammer.

And goddammit this would be SO MUCH SIMPLER if all I had to do is defend myself and case who votes me, but nooooooooooooooooooooo. You had to make me look town.

So fuck you.

[nomnomnom]

Just put your money where your mouth is now.

If you truly think I can't be scum despite me voting you and that Otter is just slowrolling this then just put that conviction on the table. What you're doing is just gross and serves no purpose.

[nomnomnom]

or alternatively just end this stupidity and just vote me lol

[nomnomnom]

The thing is that I can't trust you for the same reason you said you couldn't blindly trust me. Because for all I know you are making everything up as a gambit to try and divert my attention to Otter, or vice versa.

I told you, this discussion is pointless, it's going to be a bunch of "I WOULDN'T DO THIS AS SCUM". None of this matters. My vote has close to nothing to do with the PT stuff, it's just how you acted throughout this game.

[nomnomnom]

Just vote me already and save your breath.

[nomnomnom]

You are comparing apples to oranges. What's happening this game is completely different and you know it. There are different mechanics at play and there are different parameters.

There are reasons for you to make the chute kill and what you describe in those walls also happened this game, and you know that's true. These self-meta arguments don't really matter when in the mix you prove that it's what could be happening this game and that you are twisting the definition.

Just vote me already for christ sake.

[nomnomnom]

What's the point of these walls when what you should be doing is sorting us both, even if it's obvious?

Your mindset coming in today was "lol i'm going to hammer" then not sorting us at all?? That was the plan? That "THE PERSON I THOUGHT WAS SCUM DIED TONIGHT" is not really good justification to do anything.

Again, if Otter is scum you literally just gave him the win here but there's no slowrolling here lol, come on

[nomnomnom]

I scumread gemini throughout day 1 and day 2. I'd do it again if I had to.

[nomnomnom]

Also no sane town agrees to you lynching yourself out of pure ego, that's just madness and you know it.

Everything you're writing is ego and madness, it's pointless and serves no purpose and you have better priorities right now.

[nomnomnom]

Not lynching Gemini.

Yeah, 100% no.If you're honestly banking our town win on you being right on me...we're in trouble.

alarm bells rising again
god fucking damn it

Hey, your alarm bells ring for Gemini and you had apthet as a scumread so maybe you can sheep me when I say we should just lynch apthet because we legitimately just have the game won?

Almost everyone has apthet as a scumread.
Almost everyone has or had Gemini as a scumread.

Those reads aren't wrong.

We can get a perfect town win here as long as not caving in to stupid paranoia about "it couldn't possibly be that easy, right?".
But it legitimately genuinely just is.

Please.

Lynching a player is a collective effort.

[nomnomnom]

There are reasons for you to make the chute kill

And those reasons are?

...Why, because Parachutes had me as scum?
Why, because I called Parachutes as scum?
Why, because Parachutes was self-protecting as a rolestopper?
Why, because of Parachutes-me interactions in the PT?

I think the most likely reason is mechanical.

I'm not a psychic but it must be something among the lines of you thinking that Otter would be protected yet again, but chutes decided to protect me. And as you pointed out, if scums fail the nightkill tonight, they basically 100% lose, so you simply couldn't take that risk.

Killing otter makes you lose the game because I declared I thought you were in the scumteam.

I think it's just that simple.

[nomnomnom]

Look, I am not into that whole "who lost town the game" stuff. You're AtEing and ego-spewing all over the room here.

All that matters is sorting the two players in front of you.

If you really think I am town despite all the evidence pointing the contrary, just vote Otter. Otherwise do the thing any other sensible human would do here and vote me.

[nomnomnom]

I did this the last micro I played in, made decisions because of ego and guilt. I'm not doing this again and what you're doing is pointless AtE.

[nomnomnom]

It doesn't matter.

I had my vote on Gemini first and others followed me. I was sleeping when the decision was made.

If you have better things to do go ahead and do them, this is just a complete waste of time.

[nomnomnom]

Checking in quickly. I'll be on later tonight to sort through all of this.

Current thought: I just can't see how scum!mastina would bring me and nom to lylo. I explicitly told her in our PT that I was pretty sure it was C&N/chutes. So why would she choose to make a rolestopper PT and potentially mess up a chance to off nom and guide me to a mislynch on chutes? None of this is making any sense.

Also, I'm not seeing the long play, whereas I can potentially see scum!nom crafting a story over some time to get mastina lynched and pocket me.

There is no guarantee that she made a rolestopper PT.
There is no guarantee that what she said happened in the PT was true.

If there is a pocket happening, it's mastina trying to pocket you since literally day 1 and in the PT I was in. I wanted to track C/N that night and we probably would have gotten a guilty, but she insisted to go on you through long walls of texts. THAT is pocketing.

[nomnomnom]

Mastina's play makes sense as scum if you approach it from a perspective that she is gambitting and literally banking everything on "I WOULD NEVER DO THIS AS TOWN" and doing everything in her power today to try and stray you away from her bottlenecked position.

For me to be scum you have to assume a lot of things that are pretty fucking out there.

[nomnomnom]

That fact is pretty obvious once you read her opening post to this lylo implying that she was not only conftown but would never vote here unless it's a hammer between you and me, which is just completely fucking insane.

[nomnomnom]

She's also banking on the fact she's WHACKY and TOTALLY CRAY CRAY as town but like, this whole game doesn't reflect that at all. Not day 1, not day 2, not day 3. Nothing. It's just a LAMIST attempt on crack. She's not even sorting and waiting for an opportunity for you to vote me or a miraculous scenario where I magically vote you because I magically start believing you could be slowrolling.

Let's not be idiots here, just hammer mastina.

[nomnomnom]

I'll be honest, if I lose a second micro despite having the evidence supporting me and an almost confirmed position as town by mechanics I am going to be pretty bitter about all of this and probably dodge this queue for a while lmao

[nomnomnom]

In the present scenario, I guess scum!Mastina just hopes we turn on each other for some reason, even though we've never really scumread each other this whole game?

I mean I'll be honest, I don't really know what's going through her head either but she literally entered today declaring she was conftown and wanted to take the hammer, even going as far as to come up with "I could be venge and otter is cautious scum"/"Otter is scum slowrolling" for a reason for you to be scum when voting her, when it doesn't actually fit the setup.

[nomnomnom]

when I was voting her and should have been confscum from her pov*

Like there has to be something wrong here, this is just a gambit.

[nomnomnom]

Because there IS a guarantee that there was a PT made:

That's a misrep.

I never said no PT was made, I said that the PT didn't have to be a rolestopping one. Nuance.

[nomnomnom]

No fucking shit I'm not fucking sorting.

Because you fucking voted me.

Well, yeah, that's obvious, so why did it take you so long to vote me?

And why did you do it while misrepping my statements lol?

[nomnomnom]

I fully expect an explanation of your scumgame after we finish this by the way, I am impressed by the amount of meaningless drivel you can output in a game to try and win. And that has nothing to do with "townie insanity" because the winner of the kodak moment award basically made fun of a wall of text you wrote about you being so good at this game and writing the same thing as you are writing here while showcasing cases where you were lynched and scum.

...And you were even scum that game rofl.

[nomnomnom]

the thing is that this lylo is the result of someone's insanity and whoever the scum here was a little bit too high on crack.

And honestly I'm sorry to say but you fill the bill a bit too well friend.

[nomnomnom]

The above post is what I meant by

For me to be scum you have to assume a lot of things that are pretty fucking out there.

I'm really flattered you think I am this good as scum to come up with the idea of lying about being put in a PT, or implying I could create a new mechanic on the fly without sweating at all. But the thing is that it's not what happened.

Because if I really am scum here there is no reason to make up anything. scum!nom would already have won by now, nobody was suspecting me whatsoever and I would have the easiest lylo of my life. Yesterday would have played the same with or without the information, town!mastina and town!chutes were already at each other's throats and I just had to nightkill otter. But that didn't happen. I have no reason to do this as scum. None. Absolutely none.

All it comes down to really is analyzing what was done this game, and all the facts point at you even if we remove everything about PTs.

[nomnomnom]

Because there IS a guarantee that there was a PT made:

That's a misrep.

I never said no PT was made, I said that the PT didn't have to be a rolestopping one. Nuance.

[nomnomnom]

There are more misrepresentations in your walls but honestly we both know that this is the gambit of your life where you get to unleash all this restrained ego so responding to the points one to one will just make this go for eternity and I expect Otter to see that this is just ego ego ego ego ego.

so yeah, you're the most logical scum here despite the insanity, Otter doesn't fill the bill and that's why i voted you

[nomnomnom]

Are you trying to prove a point? Win a bet? Something like "lol let's try this and see if i still win and prove i am that good as scum xd"? I wanna know because I am really fucking lost lol

[nomnomnom]

Honestly I just think you were scared of losing that 1v1 against chutes so you tried something really unhinged instead and see where that leads you.

[nomnomnom]

I mean if we come down to it, nightkilling the person you were going to 1v1 is not that insane of an idea if you know you're going to lose against the guy. Just throwing that out there. It's still a bit cray-cray but not as insane as say, lying about information, or mechanics, or abilities

[nomnomnom]

You have so little conviction about that by the way that you basically accepted those as gospel yesterday and that you are only reputting this scenario on the table simply because it's your last bullet here and you made a gambit that failed to acknowledge that mechanics put my slot as conftown while trying to make a gambit that, in your own words, "would spew you as conftown and have hammer today".

[nomnomnom]

And trust me, I don't need to look at your scum games to tell you that there must be a sparkle of insanity in scum!mastina too. scum!mastina is not this untouchable unlynchable impossible-to-argue-against perfect and calculated figure. That's simply how you see it. If that was more of your reputation in general I definitely would have never heard of you because of the scummies nomination

[nomnomnom]

In post 914, nomnomnom wrote:
It's entirely possible that a PT was created earlier with Porky, right?
Unrelated, but interesting tidbit from nom's iso; nom themselves acknowledges that there could be other PTs made right fucking here.
In post 925, nomnomnom wrote:
I'm just trying to think who the partner is rn because whenever we end today scums should be making a watch PT and kill the person that was put in the hood with them and then we are going to end with a rocky F3.
nom set up for the scenario of "mastina is scum who killed the other member of the PT" here.
nom was setting up for today. nom was setting the groundwork for a D4 lylo. nom was laying down the suspicion yesterday for follow-through today.

If that was really my plan do you really think I would point at that possibility casually?

Yesterday I still had suspicions that Otter and you could be a scumteam, that's why I brainstormed this before basically trusting my gut and voting C/N. That was within the context of D3. If that was my plan, outing it is basically suicide. You think I'm a suicidal player? Does that really fit your observation of me this game?

[nomnomnom]

This is literally the extent of what was said on the subject.

What time did this discussion happen?

What account was the posts made under?

Was a hydra partner mentioned/referenced?

What posts did NOM make in there?

How many posts were in the PT?

There's no details there and the few which are there, could be straight from the scum PT.

That makes no difference.

Logically speaking the amount of details given doesn't matter at all given that you have 2 days to come up with them, doctor them, change them at will, make sure it fits a narrative, etc.

My lack of detail is not scum indicative. There's no point sharing those details unless someone asks for them, but you did this proactively to prove your invented narrative, which is scummy.

[nomnomnom]

Problem with that.
Putting town!me and town!Parachutes in the same PT means that you don't know if we're protecting LuckyOtter--and I had already been on record as previously protecting LuckyOtter.

As scum you had EVERY reason to suspect I'd be protecting LuckyOtter last night.

This also explains why no watcher, why it was the rolestopper.

If you killed LuckyOtter and there was a guilty on you, then you blow that 1v1 between Parachutes and I.

Occam's razor implies that if a scenario makes no sense with me being scum then it simply means I am not scum, instead of assuming I am scum and fitting a narrative that loosely fits, which is what you're doing.

[nomnomnom]

Here comes the scum ego

[nomnomnom]

It's okay you're still going to lose so it doesn't change much.

[nomnomnom]

This gambit is going to look really funny on your game record probably lol

[nomnomnom]

I'll have to check but I think it's an international crime to roll scum, go through crazy hoops just to get to a state where you declare you want to hammer a player on lylo then assaulting the poor sod that finds it completely bonkers lol

I'll call austria later

[nomnomnom]

AKA, you looked but couldn't find it.

I already have trouble reading all your walls and otter is probably going to cry when seeing the number of pages when he wakes up lol, what makes you think I want to check more games like that? No thanks. You have like 10 years on this site dude. Just saying.

[nomnomnom]

I turn this question back on you. When Parachutes is my only fucking mislynch here if I'm scum, do you think *I* am fucking suicidal enough to then REMOVE that mislynch and leave me no fucking options?

Yes I do.

You think this is ridiculous but I think that you were genuinely scared of losing that 1v1 against chutes, and your over-reaction to that statement makes me think it's the most likely explanation, if it's not something like a bet, or proving yourself, or doing something out there to prove yourself, or what do I know.

Have you played Poker? What you're doing is basically abusing your perceived range, I am fairly sure that if I was to dig for days and days, I would find outliers to the examples you gave me. But for this to work, you have to make sure everyone sees you a certain way which is why you selectively choose games to fit a narrative. It's easy to do that. You could take a bunch of history books and reconstruct history if you took a bunch of events and reconstructed that as narrative. And guess what, that's actually what happens in our real world RIGHT NOW, so you know

[nomnomnom]

You make it sound simple but it isn't. It's all wording misrep and ignoring all the other things that need to be there for it to happen.

Also I don't know about you but I don't really recall what I was doing last week or whatever so again, providing this info is virtually useless. What do you want, timestamps? Isn't this kind of against the rules anyway? I can detail what happened in the PT, sure, but this is just straight up stupid.

[nomnomnom]

Like even if I am scum here I could basically retake timestamps from a scum PT and just reforge something here and now.

I just refuse to answer to this kind of angleshoot because I have no respect for those things and I don't want to play in this when it's proven that there is no logical benefit to it and that it's an attempt to sound more genuine and that this could easily be crafted. So yeah, this is gross.

[nomnomnom]

This is just ego: the walls.

Probably dodging the thread until Otter gives inputs. Later!

[nomnomnom]

By all means.

[nomnomnom]

Speaking of NKA, perhaps this comment yesterday could be of interest for you Otter. She said you came to the same conclusion but this kind of comment resonates as scummy. This really is a game of pocketing otter until the very end.

Also--I have good reason to believe that LuckyOtter is town from the CheekyTeeky nightkill.
I told him last night that killing CheekyTeeky would be doing the town a favor; CheekyTeeky was one of the big three obvtown along-side nom and Porkens, but by MECHANICS was not cleared, whereas both nom and LuckyOtter WERE mechanically soft-cleared. LuckyOtter had good insight into said reasoning and thus had good reasons to believe killing CheekyTeeky was sub-optimal. That CheekyTeeky died demonstrates that scum went with a sub-optimal nightkill, in spite of me giving reasons for why it was sub-optimal to LuckyOtter.

[nomnomnom]

I called him scum.

Did you, ever?

Your whole thing this game is that he was "cleared by mechanics".

[nomnomnom]

Also honestly I don't believe the angle you were going for is strictly pocketing.
Rather, preying on our combined paranoia to give you the chance to end this game and that I vote otter or that he votes me. That intent is clear in this post, and very much open to the world.

Triple fuck you, because by putting me in the pt last night, you significantly reduced the odds I'd be voted, meaning that I probably WILL have that hammer.

And goddammit this would be SO MUCH SIMPLER if all I had to do is defend myself and case who votes me, but nooooooooooooooooooooo. You had to make me look town.

[nomnomnom]

Did you, ever?

You apparently have short-term memory loss considering the times you hounded at me for positing that he was slow-rolling scum.
I think the D4 thread is fairly unambiguous with me calling him scum, yes.

I meant aside from D4. I implied "throughout the game before we ended here".

[nomnomnom]

In fact, C&N votes nom in 444

just

as Porkens leaves the ap wagon (which was at L-1), putting the VC at 3 for apthet and 2 for nom. The ap lynch is nowhere near guaranteed at this point, so this puts nom in a dangerous position (cheeky could very easily swing back to voting nom at this point). That's a bizarro move for a scumpartner. Obviously there is some hard bussing happening later in this game but

this

doesn't at all feel like the right moment to do it. C&N left a very wide lynch pool open that easily would have let them put a second vote on gemini.

I'd like to present a counterargument:
Chito and Nuko was comprised of two heads that have played with me before extensively; Krazy and BulletNLynchproof.

Both of them know that when I get into a hard tunnel, I push it and I push it

hard

.
I was pushing really really REALLY hard on apthet and my alternative lynch was Gemini.

nom was never in danger. There wasn't enough support for nom; I was hard, hard, HARD defending nom on D1 and hard, hard, HARD pushing apthet/Gemini. Both heads would know this and know that when I get into that mode of absolute conviction I am a strong presence, a strong force, strong enough of one where I would be enough to dissuade a lynch on nom D1.

Porkens has also played with me and to some extent, trusts in my competency. So even if Porkens would've wanted to go onto nom, there wasn't the necessary support. Sure, CheekyTeeky might vote for nom, but even with Chito and Nuko also voting for nom, who else votes for nom? Do you? There wasn't any risk of nom being lynched--which makes it the

perfect

time to vote nom; it's distancing without hard-bussing.

Chutes had also voted me during day 1. Fairly sure that if I reached that L-1 spot, Gemini would have taken the hammer there too because of her mindset that people pushing her were scums, which is what made me think she was 100% scum in the first place. Probably wouldn't have joined the wagon midway though.

There definitely were avenues for me to get lynched day 1, so it's not really a good argument.

Plus having a team effort of having a person defend a spot really hard and having your partner simultaneously pushing it is a really common thing to do in coordinated scumteams. It's a way to muddle associatives. Knowing I do not get lynched here also provides a good reason for C/N to survive really long as an efficient slot while you push others to go for "the easy win" as you put it. He never suffers the repercussion of having the lamp on him directly after day 1, while simultaneously going for something that furthers your team's win condition.

Pretty standard thing to do if you ask me, and that's definitely a thing you would do with someone you're at ease with, which you seem to be with both heads in that hydra.

[nomnomnom]

Pretty standard thing to do if you ask me, and that's definitely a thing you would do with someone you're at ease with, which you seem to be with both heads in that hydra.

It sure is a standard thing to do, but make up your mind:
Am I a standard scum player, or an insane scum player?
You can't have it both ways.

Not sure why the two are mutually exclusive.

You can have a fairly standard scum game while having sparkles of insanity there and there, or the contrary. That's a thing.

[nomnomnom]

People are certainly not black and white, which again, was my point since the beginning about you perceiving yourself as this duality, but not really being this way in practice and in how others perceive you.

But I digress, this is going to end up in walls lol.

[nomnomnom]

postie

[nomnomnom]

aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

[nomnomnom]

This meta argument is tired to the core and people know that you use the insanity mask to make it seem like you would never do things as scum, but I still believe you killed Chutes because it was the best shot you had at winning this game, and you considered there was a high chance of losing the 1v1 against chutes. That's what I believe in.

And given that the first thing I was met with by saying that is mockery, it just makes me think I'm right on the money!

[nomnomnom]

Right now I'm comfortable with C&N being my vote today.

lol, that's a funny choice. Why C/N?

Put this in the category of things I should have caught and asked about a long time ago, but do you have any recollection why you thought this was a funny choice?

Seemed like an out-of-nowhere choice, and in my mind gemini was caught scum and I was trying to figure out if she was voting her partner. That's why.

[nomnomnom]

I'm caught up through D2.

Nom, obviously confirm or refute anything mastina has claimed happened in the N1 PT.

What do you think of a Chito/Nuko track?" (NOTE: This is incredibly scum-indicative because we know for a fact that one of me/nom was a scum tracker; we know for a fact that scum in the internships can make the nightkill; we can then infer that the scum would send the tracker to do the nightkill, i.e., that the person performing the nightkill was either nom or myself. Thus, there was ZERO chance that tracking Chito/Nuko would get a guilty...but what it WOULD have done is

soft-cleared them

, making it LESS LIKELY THEY'D GET LYNCHED. Also even IF Chito/Nuko did the kill...if their scumbuddy got the track result...they could lie, to false-clear C/N.)

Yeah, this crossed my mind as I was rereading, too. I'm actually not sure why scum would chose anyone

but

C&N to "target." It seems like a fairly obvious play now. Like, obviously the tracker PT ends up being worthless as long as scum was willing to sit themselves in it, so scum!Mastina could waste the track any way she wanted, so why waste it soft-clearing a softly-townread townie (and then choose to take that person all the way to endgame) when she could soft-clear her partner instead?

Going to bed now, more tomorrow.

The PT went like she said but the analysis is simply wrong.

You also have to keep in mind that she directed the PT. She's the one that asked the questions, directed the track. All I did was respond to her logic and agree to track you because it seemed like a good choice, but again, as you can read in the paraphrasing of the PT, I wanted to track C/N because I believe the scumteam was likely to have Gemini in it, and at the time it seemed to me that Gemini-C/N was our likely scum team, and as Mastina pointed out her logic was that C/N would probably make the kill if that was the scumteam, and I agreed with that. At the time tracking you seemed like a much better move because in the case the scumteam wasn't exactly C-N/Gemini then we would encounter a lot of problems.

So yeah, the takeaway from all this is how I approached this PT was townie. Mastina directed it, and what she wanted wasn't a clear on her partner, she wanted to seem smart and be stronger in this LYLO by pocketing you and soft-clearing you. That's the plan she went with all along, and that's consistent throughout the game.

[nomnomnom]

Mastina directed it, and what she wanted wasn't a clear on her partner, she wanted to seem smart and be stronger in this LYLO by pocketing you and soft-clearing you. That's the plan she went with all along, and that's consistent throughout the game.

The idea that I wanted to seem smart and be stronger in lylo, is mutually exclusive with the idea that I chose to nightkill my fucking mislynch of choice/lead rival/best avenue for victory.

If I were scum I could do this, and then have it be Parachutes-LuckyOtter taken with me. Just need to have it be a Watch instead of a Rolestop, or if in fact rolestopping, rolestopping LuckyOtter.

The Parachutes nightkill runs in flagrant contradiction to this narrative; you can't both have your cake and eat it too in terms of what I'd do as scum.

I honestly think the nightkill is the result of putting yourself in a bad situation with that PT in one way or another. You're not telling the truth about that PT and I know it.

[nomnomnom]

Heh I just want this game to be over, this is taking way too long for a lylo.

[nomnomnom]

Otter: "I don't trust this self-meta argument I'll just approach it th-"
Mastina: "LET ME FLOOD YOU WITH MORE SELF-META"

[nomnomnom]

Also, just saying:

The few who do? They get called crazy. Nutjobs. Crack cases. People who must be insane, must be irrational.

Just back up and let me suss this out with mastina

You're a fucking moron.

You know what sussing this out would've been?

Asking one fucking question clarifying this.

If you thought I was saying what you fucking thought I said, find a way to confirm that's what I meant. Find a way to ask me about it and see what I'd have said.

One question was all you'd have needed.

"So, you think that this game's got seven VTs?"
"Are you telling me you think that only scum would know what roles are in the game?" (Ehhh probably not this one as it gives away your meaning too much, but something along those lines could feasibly be done without giving your status away.)
One question.

That's all you'd have fucking needed.

And then, BAM.

I clarify.
That, no, I mean, "Well IF the game's got seven VTs, then YES I would expect the scum to know that, yes. If the game instead had six VTs, I'd expect the scum to know that."
And then.
BAM.
Issue resolved. You suss me out and get a satisfactory answer right then and there.

Without this fucking mess.

Or if that answer wasn't satisfactory?
Ask a second follow-through question to get me to further clarify.
And eventually the results become obvious in what I mean and what I mean not being what you fucking originally thought I was saying.

So I reiterate.

You're a fucking moron.

[nomnomnom]

Were you trying to make a point? There isn't one here, other than proving that I was irrational there. Which again. Indicates that I am town.

There's zero calling of Cheeky being crazy there. Just calling her stupid.

That's the same angle though. It's still discrediting people, and I firmly remember defending your slot here from cheeky's suspicion, which fits what you're describing.
You like making long walls with a lots of points that are easily disprovable if you look at all parts of this game. When you look at the game this way it's easy to see you're scum trying to turn the bad parts into positives, when they're clearly bad when looking bad at them.

[nomnomnom]

You literally got warned by the mod for burying Cheeky with personal attacks, just as a reminder. If that's not lengthy discrediting I don't really know what is.

[nomnomnom]

Like yeah honestly, these walls just dredge things about things you did this game that no one asked you about, and you turn everything into a good light.
I think there are things you are deeply scared this game in terms of how you acted, so much that you preemptively addressed a lot of things in fact and turned everything into this positive light.

In fact I think it honestly didn't matter what would have been the LYLO configuration for you, because I am fairly sure you would have done the exact same self-centered defense/non-attack thing either way. This way it would make sense to go for the most logical LYLO that would *justify your self-centered angle* that you pushed ultra hard at the beginning of this LYLO to justify having a hammer today. It makes sense.

[nomnomnom]

Scum!nom could have NKd me, but chutes is still a problem and there is literally no predicting what Mastina is going to do, so I really doubt scum!Nom leaves their fate to the whims of Mastina and tries to convince chutes to vote Mastina.

Chutes was pretty set on Mastina being scum and vice versa. If I am scum here this is the best move I can take yet this didn't happen at all.

[nomnomnom]

I have no reason to make this move: not on a mechanical, self-meta (since it doesn't exist move), read, tone level. I simply have no reason to do this as scum. Mastina does because she was reaching an endgame against Chutes. I honestly think she thought her entrance would work as a way to seem genuine entering today and avoiding that 1v1 altogether and make me reconsider your case.

I actually agree that this whole WIFOM-ish situation makes me look very bad, and honestly I think this is what mastina is aiming for and she came today with pretty devastating arguments. A way to get to hammer whoever gets voted between us? Then walls and walls of self-meta? Then an angle-shoot around timestamps? That was prepared coming in today. I thought I would be dying last night because of the way this game went on, and here I am being on a 1v1 in a LYLO. Honestly Mastina has some guts I have to admit. She does look better here than the 1v1 against chutes which is something to consider as well in your judgement. This is the "calculated" angle she wants you to forget about and this is why she spent walls and walls trying to make you think she's her "WACKY TOWN SELF" when I think what she's doing here is her best shot at winning this game.

[nomnomnom]

There are so many things contradicting me being scum this game, but it's this wifom-y seed of doubt that happened today that's making you reconsider. That's the truth about this game.

Mastina is pretty good at abusing angle-shoots but it doesn't really change the reality of this game.

[nomnomnom]

It's less likely but in a situation where none of us should be here you kinda need to improve those chances.

Again, I have no mechanical, read-centric, tonal, information-based reason to do any of this. If I was scum, the PT config would have been different and you would have died tonight. The only reason we are here is because Mastina is improving her chances with an edge case, and the fact you're reconsidering means it's working.

It's a nice play I guess, she improved her chances drastically by doing this. You just need to understand the illogical state this game is. You had the first idea the first time, and she invoked self meta over and over again as a tautology to try and make you vote on me. Everything she has done today is to try to weasel her way out of this by either making me vote you with her play and trying to get a hammer, or go into a 1v1 against you or me. That's what happened and this is verifiable.

That's all I have to say.

[nomnomnom]

Honestly I just want to get this over with, Mastina just masterminded all of this and I've grown unattached to the game before of the LYLO taking so long. She just took her opportunity there, and I hate that it's working but I guess this is why she did it.

GG anyway.

[nomnomnom]

Also, additional note, but you can see she doesn't even believe what she says when she enters today with intention to cause a 1v1 between us (by saying she will have the hammer, that's what she wanted to do), then do all of this AtE bullshit about "town finally having a chance to win this" as she suddenly cared about making cases when she was getting voted.

That's not genuine and it shows what she was trying to do today That's honestly my last line of defense. I'd hate to net myself another town loss god damn lol

[nomnomnom]

Like for crying out loud she comes with the most obviously crafted response to today and she addresses a ton of things that should make 100% sense but the result is basically "lol who is scum just vote each other" as if what she said was enough justification to stay on the sidelines to watch us fight today and obviously it didn't go that way. It made no sense to me, perhaps it somehow made sense in her head but yeah.

[nomnomnom]

@Mastina after this game please tell me what was going through your head because even now I have no clue and it somehow is working so I kinda need to understand how the fuck do you do this

[nomnomnom]

Why would you have NK'd me as scum? I hadn't scumread you all game, but gave my doubts on Mastina and speculated on a Mastina/CN team early on. This is the ideal lylo situation for scum!you.

Mastina says scumteam is CN/chutes
Chutes says scumteam is CN/mastina

All I have to do as scum here is do something like make a watch PT with you, nightkill you, and that's all. Easiest win of my life.
That didn't happen so yeah. Illogical game state for me to be in as scum. So occam's razor says I am not scum here.

[nomnomnom]

They both declared their scumteam d3, I had a roadmap laid out for me as scum. Again, this is verifiable information.

I simply have no reason to be here as scum! This is just a WIFOM gambit, and again, this is provable if you check mastina's entrance to this LYLO which is improving those WIFOM parameters with PT information, "fuck you scum for confirming me town" and "guess I am hammering today lol". This is, again, verifiable. The rest of today is posting walls of text about self meta and hoping this is enough. Again, 100% verifiable.

[nomnomnom]

Rolestopping wouldn't block me, it would block all actions on me. It makes me an ascetic BP for the night.

I am still cleared by the mechanics of this game though, so yeah. Mastina's just trying to gambit and failing at it.

Ok ok.

Right, so you and c&n couldn't have been on the same pt. Unless you made that up, and also the rule about nightless phases. I mean it's a huge stretch and mastina/cn makes more sense to me but I'll still have to think on it.

C/N and I can't be be scums by the fact we were put in a PT together, yeah.

Honestly, I'm also not liking the fact that you tried to play this as truth.

But this is the truth fmpov. I'm just telling you what I see. I cannot be scum with CN when I was put in a PT with him. It's only my word, but this is the truth fmpov.

What would that roadmap be?

Already said it.
Make watch PT with you.
Nightkill you.
Let mastina and chutes scream at each other before someone commits to a vote.
Hammer for the win.

This is how it would have went 100% of the time and this is what I would have done as scum because this is my best shot at winning.
There is simply no reason for scum me to do all of this. scum!mastina does this for wifom angle-shooting and trying to get herself a winning position by giving a hammer between us two if we follow her start of day logic.

[nomnomnom]

Why would you have NK'd me as scum? I hadn't scumread you all game, but gave my doubts on Mastina and speculated on a Mastina/CN team early on. This is the ideal lylo situation for scum!you.

Mastina says scumteam is CN/chutes
Chutes says scumteam is CN/mastina

All I have to do as scum here is do something like make a watch PT with you, nightkill you, and that's all. Easiest win of my life.
That didn't happen so yeah. Illogical game state for me to be in as scum. So occam's razor says I am not scum here.

But then chutes thought through the CN/Mastina scenario and didn't like it, then he said scumteam was CN/me. That's where it left off.

Also, Occam's razor says Mastina would have NK'd you and gotten me to vote chutes, for the easiest win of her life. Occam's razor just isn't helpful here.

Chutes would literally have never reconsidered me if i was scum in a LYLO with him this game and if he did he'd deserve praise for it.
town!mastina would have probably followed her cn/chutes team idea anyway, voted early and i could have won this way.

Again, best shot at winning.
I know occam's razor isn't helping much here. Again, best shot for my defense is: just go and watch how mastina approached today. It literally is a thoughtpiece of why she did this. That's why I voted there.

[nomnomnom]

1. Approach today with a "LOL WTF MY SUSPECT DIED"
2. Say she is conftown
3. Tell us she will have hammer this lylo and that she will not scumhunt because "lol no idea"
4. One of us votes her
4b. cause more confusion with her "haha I could be venge and scum!otter is scared to vote me" to make me reconsider you
5. Goes in a 1v1 against me, with walls full of AtE, self-meta, wifom and angleshoot

That's what she did.

[nomnomnom]

*sigh* Here's a thing. Just playing out a world in which you are town and telling the truth.

My major hangup is Mastina taking you to lylo, but it's not impossible. If chutes was deadset on protecting/watching you (doesn't matter which), either he won the roll, or Mastina just decided she had to follow suit and protect/watch you. She had to make a PT, didn't matter which one she made. Trying to figure out why she'd take chutes in particular.

My guess is that she's lying about being put in a rolestop PT because it makes no sense to risk your game on a lost roll.

I didn't understand why she did and crafted an entire narrative around her PT being a rolestop besides giving her a reason not to scumhunt on lylo (which again is fucking bonkers) but later down this LYLO I saw what she was going for. It's clever and full of WIFOM, but it's just that: WIFOM. She spent the night carefully crafting an entire PT to make herself seem plausible AND be able to rebound on any of us, were one of us were to vote her seriously, because that logic would have also applied to you in a world where you vote her first and she does the same thing with you. Exact same logic.

[nomnomnom]

If you're telling the truth about the PTs, Mastina had no choice but to make either a rolestop or a watch PT. At this point in the game, they'll essentially do the same thing because let's say you're chosen as a watch target. She's obviously not going to choose to NK you. That would make her potential confscum to chutes.

Well, then they vote each other and it still leaves me to decide which of them is lying, and I probably choose chutes.

It actually matters because if a rolestop PT is ever made where the other person defends me she cannot nightkill me, and that would give good justification to kill chutes because I said d3 that I thought Mastina was scum.

There IS a difference, and it's important to see it.

[nomnomnom]

But I think you're right: I think she's not lying about be being the chosen person to be watched/rolestopped but I think she's lying about the whole "It was my idea and that's why I thought he was confscum OH WELL"

[nomnomnom]

about me being the chosen person*

[nomnomnom]

And honestly I also believe there's a reason for her to go AtE and self-meta referencing over and over again even despite you saying you didn't find it useful.

The more she talks about this game the more she pits herself as scum. She has no case against me. None. So she just protects herself with self meta to avoid giving you the key to this puzzle.

I discussed with you in extensive length the key points that I think show Mastina as scum and I had to take the first leap of faith today for that. I am not scared of talking about anything.

I'm simply town trying to reach a victory with you and trying to make you avoid the WIFOM trap mastina set for this LYLO. That's all. That's her last resort.

[nomnomnom]

honestly that is pretty scary because were I to wait more in this LYLO and question her, she would have posted these self meta references way earlier and I would have probably reconsidered you because this is my vulnerable spot (as in, AtE and semi-truths like that). Glad I didn't give her enough time to do this.

[nomnomnom]

THANK GOD

[nomnomnom]

This is the last fucking time I cause a 1v1 against town!mastina, jesus fucking christ

[nomnomnom]

What.
What.
W h a t.

W
H
A
T.

[nomnomnom]

I'll let schadd explain his own mechanic that I just butchered to death lolol

[nomnomnom]

No objection here.
Yeah, basically reinvented most of the mechanics this game, also had to come up with a different nightless mechanic. That was not easy.

Could not nightkill you tonight otter because I was risking my game on a 50/50 so I went this route instead. mastina was right!

She played well and you did too. Scary 1v1 I have to say. When I started seeing the walls of text I was like "oh god here it comes"

[nomnomnom]

Just read the dead thread. I'm heartened that people had faith in me XD

Sorry I fucked it up

Honestly you played good, you almost had me. Thought I would lose this LYLO.
I was so fucking scared the whole time I'm still trembling lol

Again, this is the last time I cause a 1v1 against Mastina. Those walls are scary as hell.

[nomnomnom]

Can you imagine none of this would have happened if I took a bigger leap of faith and risked you being rolestopped and bank my whole game on that?

Guess I need to build more guts

[nomnomnom]

But hey I'm not entirely unhappy about this, this was a way more challenging LYLO to go through and now I know what town!mastina looks like when you pick up fight against her, so again, the deviation was worth.

[nomnomnom]

CONGRATULATIONS TO THE WINNERS
SO WELL DESERVED
I'M NOMNOMNOMMING THIS GAME FOR EVERY SCUMMIE, WATCH ME

ebwop

lol

[nomnomnom]

just me rambling over and over

nothing to see here