BTE: Boon Wars - Revenge of the Jingle

[Darth Easy Baker]

In this game we are, hmmmm?

[Darth Easy Baker]

So many good players in this game! Excited to play with everyone!

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: palpatine

I mean, cmon, is there really anyone more evil than he?

[Darth Easy Baker]

He made me who I am, damn it

[Darth Easy Baker]

I’m just gonna mention one more time how AWESOME this fucking game is!!!!!!

[Darth Easy Baker]

I MEAN REALLY!!

BY THE WAY we are TROWN!!

Scum benefit from knowing who everyone is. So way to be useless if you are town:

VOTE: Shirobacca

Why does this benefit scum and not town?

i cant tell if this is bad town or scum faking a townslip

It's probably not scum faking a townslip. But it could be scum actually not knowing the mechanics.

It very much depends on who posted that, but it's likely to be someone who's setup clueless as either alignment, and so it probably doesn't mean anything.

VOTE: Obi Wan Kenobi
The sig told me to

an alternative to mimicry is to strip your posts of all personality for the sake of trown

I'm super personable because I'm a real person, so sorry that's not a possibility

Also, smh

You can be personable and still post in a generic way. Presumably what was meant here was to suppress personality quirks that are distinctive or easy to spot.

VOTE: Darth
Impress me

Ambiguous vote, although probably not us as we have no intention of impressing anyone.

[Darth Easy Baker]

dead game is dead. dont expect much activity from anyone until some other games go into night i guess

It's hillarious how we're all more hiding than scumhunting.

Not really. As amusing as the impressions were, they're completely getting in the way of playing the game. I doubt that avoiding revealing ourselves is so critical that it's worth it to clam up completely, so let's drop the acts a bit and just play the game.

As an aside, I'd like to come up with a way to differentiate between heads. This head will be Baker; I'll let my partner decide what he wants to be called. This doesn't mean I intend to sign my posts, but if there is any confusion, it would be good to be able to refer to the reads and posts of specific heads.

[Darth Easy Baker]

@Mod

What is the policy on hydra slips? Do they need to be quoted?

[Darth Easy Baker]

I agree as this is what I've been struggling with. I really don't want to give the Jingle any hint at our identities. BUT it seems like pretty important information for them, so I don't like you just saying it isn't that big of a deal. Like "hey its no biggie, lets just talk normally so I can figure out who's who and get a scum win" is what I hear from your post. VOTE: DEB

I mean, there is a spectrum. On one end of the spectrum is playing completely normally without regards for identity hiding. On the other end is doing absolutely nothing worthwhile which effectively prevents alt-guessing completely.

We're currently at the latter, and pretty much anywhere else on the spectrum is preferable, including probably the other end. I seriously doubt that the benefit scum incur from guessing alts is so good that it would make the game harder than if we just voted randomly.

But I'm not suggesting that we reside at either extreme, despite how you seem to be interpreting it. I want us to be somewhere in the middle. And to do that, we need to open up more than we have been.

I've played in anonymous games before. You are not as obvious as you think you are. If you try to talk like a normal person would, avoiding doing things that are unique or easily identifiable as you, the scum will probably not be able to guess who you are, but people will be able to read you, which is exactly what we want.

[Darth Easy Baker]

As amusing as the impressions were, they're completely getting in the way of playing the game. I doubt that avoiding revealing ourselves is so critical that it's worth it to clam up completely, so let's drop the acts a bit and just play the game.

I agree as this is what I've been struggling with. I really don't want to give the Jingle any hint at our identities. BUT it seems like pretty important information for them, so I don't like you just saying it isn't that big of a deal. Like "hey its no biggie, lets just talk normally so I can figure out who's who and get a scum win" is what I hear from your post. VOTE: DEB

It comes as no surprise that baezu would be scum in this game, just like all her other games

VOTE: baezda

[Darth Easy Baker]

If Padme is scum I definitely give them props for simulating imploding town very well.

That said, I don't really follow the case on Nute.

I would probably be okay with most wagons, but I think I'd prefer not them.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I hate to say this but maybe wagoning the inactive is the best move since we don't really have many good reads...

I'm aware that that's an extremely weak play. But in this case, there is a possibility that neither of the people in that hydra prefers scum and they both keep waiting for the other one to post.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Wait a minute.

Padme, have you read the setup mechanics?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Correct, I was referring to the vengekill.

I'm still not convinced that either Padme or Nute flips scum though.

[Darth Easy Baker]

By "wagoning the inactive" I did mean Annie, though I didn't think they were still having account problems. Based on what Boon said, it didn't sound like that was the case.

I could also wagon RCEPO though, their ISO is equally pathetic (and possibly more, given the opportunistic vote on us).

[Darth Easy Baker]

I think the point of that post was to call you town, unless I'M misunderstanding.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Vote Count 3.04

The time is based off of California time, or -8:00, month first, then day.

Padme AlmostDala [5]:

Frozen Grievous, Obi-Someth Kenobi, Mace Binsdu, Nute Krazy, Ki-Adi-Joandi

Characellor Palpatine [2]:

Arist2D2, Darth TyTitus

Darth Easy Baker [2]:

RCEPO, Darth Easy Baker

Nute Krazy [2]:

Irrelph Organa, Padme Almostdala,

Baezda[1]:

Shirobacca

Darth Tytitus [1]:

Baezda,

Not Voting [2]:

Anniecan Boonrunner , Characellor Palpatine

With

15

alive, it takes

8

to execute.

Day ends in (expired on 2019-07-15 20:00:00)

on

July 15th, 2019.

Mod Notes:

Boon Wars Hub thread for updates on the game!

Mass mass prodding. Post guys!!!!

We are voting for baezda not ourselves

[Darth Easy Baker]

Vote Count 3.04

The time is based off of California time, or -8:00, month first, then day.

Padme AlmostDala [5]:

Frozen Grievous, Obi-Someth Kenobi, Mace Binsdu, Nute Krazy, Ki-Adi-Joandi

Characellor Palpatine [2]:

Arist2D2, Darth TyTitus

Darth Easy Baker [2]:

RCEPO, Darth Easy Baker

Nute Krazy [2]:

Irrelph Organa, Padme Almostdala,

Baezda[1]:

Shirobacca

Darth Tytitus [1]:

Baezda,

Not Voting [2]:

Anniecan Boonrunner , Characellor Palpatine

With

15

alive, it takes

8

to execute.

Day ends in (expired on 2019-07-15 20:00:00)

on

July 15th, 2019.

Mod Notes:

Boon Wars Hub thread for updates on the game!

Mass mass prodding. Post guys!!!!

We are voting for baezda not ourselves

@mod

[Darth Easy Baker]

Why

[Darth Easy Baker]

Also seeing as Palpatine was canonically a bad guy

This is a joke, I hope?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Like Boon definitely makes some weird decisions as a mod but you can't seriously think he would give all the scum secret alts named after villains and all the townies secret alts named after protagonists.

[Darth Easy Baker]

So, that D1 scum lynch. We're thinking multiple busing, yeah?

Could be?

I'd rather just not use anyone's presence or absence on the wagon as a tell. Except perhaps the hammer; I don't remember who it was off the top of my head, but if it came pretty close to deadline whoever hammered it is probably town.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I know, but I made a point of making the statement before I checked.

Unfortunately, it was Shiro, who is already trown.

[Darth Easy Baker]

It wasn't carelessness, it was specifically a tell that didn't depend on the identity of the player at all. I intentionally didn't check because I didn't want the read to be colored by what I already thought.

It's irrelevant (irrelephant?) though, I already had Shiro as town.

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: Padme
My hydra already did this, so this is just a show of support

Why is Padme still alive?

UNVOTE:
I now strongly townread Padme

This is funky.

Frozen, were those last two posts by the same head?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Yeah that's a good point. I was going to talk about this theory:

My guess is scum thought they knew who it was, but got it wrong, since we are still in active phase. I'm not sure what else the knowledge of identities could really relate to.

because I'm actually surprised by how much sense it makes, but if this theory is true then it just means Padme is scum because scum would probably not have passed up the chance for a free kill otherwise. Although maybe they're just saving it until they can win with it, which would be annoying.

I would bet that the mechanic is more nuanced than what Obi said, to make it so they can't just kill a bunch of people who they've figured out all at once for the win. I would hope it is, anyway.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Hi

[Darth Easy Baker]

This gives me an idea -- if the purpose was to make it low info then we can look at lower info people as possible scum.

Actually usually low info kills are made by scum who are in a good position. I don't think that kill was made particularly to be low info, though. They were fairly towny and active from what I remember.

[Darth Easy Baker]

No - the first two were made by head one, the third post by head two

But even if they were by the same head, why are they weird? 150 posts were made between the 2nd and 3rd post. During that period, insomnia towntold.

If they had been made by the same head, the progression would have been very towny. As it is, it's still somewhat towny, but less so.

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: RCEPO thought this was a spew on frozen. 100% town if rc flips scum.

That would be the least subtle spew I've ever seen, and I've seen some pretty damn unsubtle ones.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I think it's more likely a genuine read.

Accurate? Can't say. But I might be willing to switch to Baezda.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Secret alt games are dead. Always.

[Darth Easy Baker]

@Jingle can we get a VC

[Darth Easy Baker]

I'd like deb to get venged if town is hit today

When did this happen

[Darth Easy Baker]

So you haven't reevaluated your read on us since the beginning of the game?

Why not?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Even if I were scum, that wouldn't justify refusing to reevaluate your read all game.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Posted?

Like, you were scumreading my slot from very early on, and early reads are generally lower quality than later reads, especially since I hadn't posted much and I'm easier to read than my partner. Although you've shown evidence that you've continued to scumread us, you haven't shown any thought process or explanation as to why, nor have you attempted to engage with the people who are townreading us.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I'll vote wherever needed to get a lynch but we legit haven't had a VC in six days.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Idk I kinda like a couple of Obi's posts.

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: Frozen Grievous

[Darth Easy Baker]

I can switch if the votes swing that way.

[Darth Easy Baker]

After re-ISOing Baezda, I probably would prefer to lynch them if the votes are there.

I should be around right up until deadline.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Who are you thinking about vengekilling?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Who would you recommend mr Darth?

Since you asked? Probably just Baezda.

The only slot whose recent posting I felt a little weird on was TyTitus, but I don't know if that's just me being dumb and I don't remember what they've done before, plus they get brownie points for actually being here when we were trying to coordinate a lynch. (RCEPO gets those too, more in fact for actually being the hammer.)

[Darth Easy Baker]

This game would be seriously scumsided with 4 scum.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Btw don't think I've forgotten about this DEB, I haven't

That's good, I'd be concerned about your memory if you had.

What of it? Do you think Baezda was ever NOT going to be a mislynch?

[Darth Easy Baker]

I'm going to be annoying and say I had a townread on Irrelph for good reasons, but I don't remember why

Were they the person who was trying to put a lot of stock on flavor? That's probably why

Yeah I felt the same way.

[Darth Easy Baker]

DEB, you're my scum read. Why are you town? What are your reads?

You're town.
Ki, Shiro, Tytitus, and RCEPO are in some weird leantown group.
Irrelph and Arist are a mess. May be worth it to sort today. I have individual reasons to townread each but they are fairly weak.
Obi might be scum.
I remember literally nothing about Nute.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Who calls a vengekill to be directed on someone for like little reason
Scum boys

Hard disagree? If I'm scum I don't have to do anything to get Baezda mislynched. I certainly don't have to stick my neck out like that and be the primary one to take responsibility for it.

[Darth Easy Baker]

DEB is like that really old grandfather that sits at the family dinner and from time to time he wakes up and tells you a joke from his early days and then proceeds to fall back asleep, that's the level of impact he's had overall.

Logging into the alt is annoying, ok ;-;

[Darth Easy Baker]

Too dumb to be scum isn't a thing.

Yeah it totally is.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Arist gets moved down after finishing my reread. If I were to vote right now that's probably where it would be.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Stilted, descriptive manner of posting; not much nuance or deliberation in their reads; their reactions to things like Irrelph pushing for flavor = alignment and Vorkuta's slip read more like agenda pushing than genuine attempts to figure things out.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Scum usually don't push crackpot theories they know are false, it just makes them look dumb.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I read it as genuine frustration that someone with such low impact has skated through the game and he's pushing people without any reasoning behind it.

The town response to something like this is, by and large, to seek to understand it, rather than to complain about it.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Arist was not frustrated by Irrelph's argument itself. They were frustrated by people calling it town, and they reacted to this by repeating that "too dumb to be scum" isn't a thing without really seeking to understand why people were arguing that.

[Darth Easy Baker]

No, that's your interpretation of what a town should act like and should be in constant seeking understanding mode.

I said "by and large" for a reason. That is usually how townies act, because town is the alignment where players do actually have to figure things out.

Obviously their response is not impossible to imagine as town, but I think in a vacuum it is more likely to be scum.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Arist is town, I'm not gonna talk about this.

If you're really as confident as you appear here, I'll take your word for it.

[Darth Easy Baker]

RCE-PO, IRRELPH ORGANA, DARTH EASY BAKER, OBI-SOMETH KENOBI.

I think I'm fine with this for now. You're leaving Nute out because of their early jump onto the Palpatine wagon?

[Darth Easy Baker]

You just aren't trying to get inside his head.

I totally am. I see scum expressing frustration that people are calling the person they planned to mislynch town for dumb reasons.

Frustration is not town indicative in this situation.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Uhh what is there to understand? They literally went "Guys I think all the bad guys...... Are just the bad guys!" Then set the blunt down I presume.

I mean, you can analyze what brought about the theory, you can analyze whether they would have actually expected people to buy it as scum or if they expected to just be laughed at, you can go down the rabbit hole of "did they expect people to say it was too dumb to be scum," or maybe they're scum with another evil flavor and it was a distancing attempt...

There's a lot you can consider here.

[Darth Easy Baker]

(even though the post you quoted about venging, I meant more that you were calling a venge on ME, which I couldn't fathom at the time, seemed super rushed and I think town would be more concerned about thinking through a venge or venging a lurker. I agreed with venging Baezda)

I wasn't calling for a venge on you, I admitted in that post that my read on you was weak and nebulous and I preferred a Baezda venge.

[Darth Easy Baker]

They saw a bad guy flip scum. This isn't rocket science.

Actually, they first brought it up in 311, way before Palpatine flipped.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Just because you don't understand my purpose does not give you the right to say it doesn't have one.

Gonna simultaneously agree with this sentiment and note that I have to say this more when I'm scum

[Darth Easy Baker]

I think more than once I have dicked around and done random shit as scum and then cited what Nute just said when people pressure me for it.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I also still don't think Padme is super town here either

Regardless, I think Padme self resolves once we find out what benefit scum get from figuring people's identities out.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Scum who successfully push the idea risk losing 1 to gain who knows how many mislynches.

One.

Even if they believed they could actually convince people of that theory, it's debunked after a single target flips town.

And that target is going to be pissed at getting wagoned on such a stupid theory, so guess who they might take it out on with their vengekill?

[Darth Easy Baker]

If a bad guy flips town first then the (now known to be at least one) scum bad guy is safer, after the 'bad guy = scum' theory is discarded.

Fallacy fallacy. If an argument in favor of X is disproven, that doesn't provide evidence in favor of not-X.

[Darth Easy Baker]

not everyone plays the same way that you do.

Like I said, it's a general principle, that doesn't mean it applies to everyone. I could definitely name a few people who are exceptions (obviously I won't because anonymous). But overall, that tell has definitely served me well more times than it has led me astray.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Dude it's really not the end of the world to be mislynched

ew this looks like tmi now that I look back

Probability that Tytitus was subscribing to the philosophy that you should always talk to people as though they are town > probability that Tytitus momentarily forgot everything about mafia and made a really blunt slip.

[Darth Easy Baker]

lol how did I know I would get you to scumread me just by expressing my scumread on you

Did you specifically want to bait out that reaction for some reason? Or were you indifferent to it?

[Darth Easy Baker]

No I'm not saying it's all town, but I'm not saying the game is solved by lynching in the last people who voted FG when there wasn't any other option

They were literally preventing a no lynch (ex. DEB)

This.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Shade is bullshit as a tell btw.

Also this.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Agreeing with something that was a refutation to something I never said makes me think one of the two of you is scum trying to avoid the venge.

I don't care what it was in response to, the point was still a valid one. You implied that it was scum-motivated to vote FG when the alternative was a no-lynch, which is blatantly wrong.

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: DEB

You're eating a vengekill if we're lynched, I hope you realize.

[Darth Easy Baker]

But like, at that point you're just artificially restricting yourself. I can pick five random slots in the game and yeah, odds are one of them's going to be scum. If you don't think being on the wagon specifically was scummy, then you're really just doing that.

Clearly whatever obvtown vibes FG gave out were not picked up by anyone else. So I don't think it's inconceivable that the wagon could have been all town-- it's unlikely of course, but only due to statistics-- and so you're really just limiting yourself to a random pool for no good reason.

[Darth Easy Baker]

B) you and deb acting like I called it a solve when I didn't is scummy af

Get your facts straight. I only acted like you said the wagon was scummy, which you did say.

[Darth Easy Baker]

D) the wagon was scummy and you arguing that it being presented as a compromise lynch at deadline makes it less scummy is the opposite of truth

You're refusing to look at this from anyone else's perspective but your own.

Thirteen people were alive. At minimum, ten of them were town. Exactly one person was calling FG obvtown. So at that instant, it's confirmed that there were at least eight town-aligned players who did not think FG was obvtown. Those players saw FG as an unknown, and a deadline lynch on an unknown who has a vengekill if town is vastly better than a no-lynch. Don't even try to argue this, or I will break out some math, so help me God.

I don't know what you're using "scummy" to mean, but I'm using it to mean "likely to come from scum," which is what it means. If eight townies thought something...

...then a random person who thought it is not any more likely to be scum than random.

If you scumread the people on the wagon, that's fine. Scumread them for other reasons. Which leads me to my next point...

E) you insisting the wagon wasn't scummy while also exclusively hunting on the wagon, because that's where the scummiest people are, is some weird cogdis and also scummy

Which is that you can scumread someone and not scumread everything they do. It could just so happen that the people on the wagon are scummy for other reasons, even if their presence is irrelevant to the read. It's not cogdis... and it's certainly not scummy.

(Cogdis is towny, by the way. I don't know who told you otherwise.)

[Darth Easy Baker]

Like all you're doing is shouting that fg was scummy without ever identifying what he actually did that wasscummy, which is basically how he got lynched. Your inability to get specific in why he was scummy js why the wagon was bad, why the wagon was scummy, and why the fact that it went through is highly indicative of there having been scum on it.

FG wasn't scummy. I had really no strong feelings on them, and I only voted because it was impossible to get a lynch through on anyone else, including my preferred lynch Baezda.

[Darth Easy Baker]

It was null. Not towny. Not scummy. Since it was null, you fixating on it could lead you to make a suboptimal decision.

Just ignore the wagon and read people individually. You can read into people's individual reasons for joining the wagon, sure, but you can't make sweeping statements like "we need to find scum on the wagon." That's as arbitrary as saying "we need to find scum with an E in their name."

[Darth Easy Baker]

I'm out of shits to give for this game. Sorry.

I don't trust Boon not to run this as 11:4, but I do trust Jingle not to let him, so I don't think it's LYLO.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Shiro, don't color yourself green in VCA.

[Darth Easy Baker]

The two Jedi Knights who went to save the chancellor were Anakin and Obi-Wan so like no?

[Darth Easy Baker]

I think my vote will go to Arist because nothing towny + tunneled several town.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Yeah. I really think flavor breaking is a nonstarter because that's dumb even for Boon standards

[Darth Easy Baker]

he ain't the only one who has pushed town this game eh

Yeah but I think of the living players they were most insistent on an incorrect read?

Regardless I do have reasons to townread most of the others.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Oh uh. This is awkward.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Yes, you're right about who we are...

But Baezu hasn't posted in four weeks.

[Darth Easy Baker]

The problem is I genuinely believe your slot to be town and thus this is just... unacceptable.

Sorry but I am not a fan of this format. Mountainous games are already annoying and the secret alt aspect of it just makes it worse.

It's not as if I'm not going to try, but I'm probably not going to do as much reading and flip-flopping of opinions as I have been. I'm not in the habit of posting about that, so I don't know how much it will actually be noticeable, but I spent a significant amount of time going back and forth on a lot of the slots without any clear conclusions. I'm a very meta-heavy player and the secret alts are really throwing me off.

At this point, maybe we should just massclaim identities? Clearly scum can't do anything THAT devastating from knowing our identities...

[Darth Easy Baker]

Arist, I said. They haven't really been towny in any way and they hard pushed on several townies.

I do have a few questions-- what made you think we were AN, and what made you think Baezu was posting recently?

[Darth Easy Baker]

(At Ki Adi, obviously.)

[Darth Easy Baker]

I was just wondering if it was the incredibly cheeky 126, which Baezu posted while she was still alive in Ep. 2

By the way, I'll be V/LA over the weekend. I don't think this game even has prods, but just so you're aware.

[Darth Easy Baker]

You guys are doing a great job of making me want to keep playing this game. /s

[Darth Easy Baker]

I think the only ones who haven't claimed identities are Arist and Nute. I'd guess Arist = RCE/Ausuka and Nute = Titus/dave but I would definitely like to know for sure. I'd also like to know which head(s) of them have been active.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Nute, who are you, and which of your heads have been actively posting?

[Darth Easy Baker]

If I had to guess, I'd say Titus, but I'm not exactly in the Paragon of Alt Hunters so I could be wrong there.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I'll be V/LA from tonight until Monday. If anyone wants to ask anything of me, do it today.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I could be convinced there but I haven't really seen any convincing arguments yet. I still think I prefer Arist especially after knowing that Ausuka, whom I can usually read like a book when she's town, is in it.

[Darth Easy Baker]

This post does not contain a hammer.

This doesn't really seem out of Xtoxm's scumrange, so while I'm not exactly optimistic I'm also not exactly opposed.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Mod: Are vengekills mandatory?

If not, and we mislynch today, they shouldn't kill anyone.

[Darth Easy Baker]

You'd rather have two chances to hit scum than three?

[Darth Easy Baker]

Explain to me how we can win if it's 3:2 and we lynch town, they vengekill scum, and town dies overnight.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Also Boon likes to run townsided setups and 11:4 mountainous is wildly scumsided, so...

[Darth Easy Baker]

Lynching town loses regardless but yeah.

Exactly. So if we do lynch town, and the game's not over...

... there's obviously only 3 scum, so the lynched player should hold their shot.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Well, if Boon's gonna play out the game when the result is already known, then I guess he can, lol, but obviously town should be assuming they still have a chance to win.

[Darth Easy Baker]

VOTE: No Lynch
Best move is double NL then.

[Darth Easy Baker]

Assuming 3 scum gives us the most realistic chance of actually winning.

And I don't really care about scum choosing who goes to LYLO. Even if we lynch and shoot randomly in LYLO, we have a 2/3 chance to win.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I would say GG, but it really wasn't.

This was a terrible game and I'm glad it's over.

[Darth Easy Baker]

I mean, I know a quickhammer when I see one, so like, presumably?

I had half a mind to unvote when I saw Ki's post, too. Wonder if I would have been fast enough. Even then, it probably wouldn't have mattered, though.