Open 769: Venrob's PYP X/Y (Town Wins)

[skitter30]

Can someone talk me though the nom suspicion bc I don't see the Billy wagon presenting much info other than skit town?

i mean ... look at her iso
she spends quite a long while opposing the billy wagon, refusing to take a stand on him, and trying to change people's minds about billy

[skitter30]

VOTE: nom

[skitter30]

I don’t get Suji’s no-vote. Why not either vote Billy, your bigger scumread, or make a push for Kerset, your biggest scumread?

I'm still here. Why should I vote at the moment when:

1. I asked a question I wanted an answer to; and,
   
2. we still have time?

VOTE: Billy Pilgrim

i don't understand this progression in the context of your response

[skitter30]

tone

it's generic and feels LAMIST-y

again there's the whole 'reacting to a potential lynch as if it's immediate' when it, in actuality, is not; this always looks survivalistic to me

[skitter30]

that makes more sense to me, i guess

[skitter30]

that's 5 votes btw

[skitter30]

these later two votes do worry me a bit, ngl

[skitter30]

why'd you vote then

[skitter30]

suji are you an alt?

[skitter30]

why'd you vote then

basically
because i know i'm town
and i was interested in seeing what would happen

sigh

[skitter30]

or the interesting dynamic between AaronFrost and nomnomnom which is apparent over the previous two pages?

talk about this part, if you can

wagonomics is when you look at how wagons formed and where votes moved to and why to see if you can figure out what the scumz were doing at various points of the game

[skitter30]

sigh

just quoting this so it's in my iso and i can dig it up if i'm set to be the game losing mislynch

i kinda feel like d2 skitter from that game rn

i feel like your meta has changed a lot since we last played a lot, and i got to see that firsthand in c++ there

and that your response regarding your vote was townie in that context

but frustrating af too

[skitter30]

i thought you were volunteering to talk about your thoughts there

[skitter30]

@skitter cool new avi

ya i'm trying to get the size/proportions right, haven't figured it out yet

[skitter30]

@suji
how are you reading aaron and what do you think of the fact that they are currently voting for nom?

[skitter30]

so u think they could be svs?

i could maybe kinda see aaron/nom and nom/billy but i'm not sure i see aaron/nom/billy, if that makes sense

[skitter30]

Skitter why do you dislike billy-xaya interaction?

Xayah's initial vote on billy was awful, and i didnt like her push there

I'm not sure, though, that billy's vote on her was a partner vote; billy's side of it doesnt feel svs + she was a cw to him, which makes me think she might be town

One thing i'm kinda wondering about is why rb died. Iirc one of his major suspicions was xayah and he was angling p hard to go after her

[skitter30]

Skiter you should know this isn't my scumgame lol

I'm going to iso Wooper and Suji right now and see what I have.

This doesnt feel like ur towngame either

You feel v ... stilted and like ~pre-meditated~ almost? Like your posts dont feel natural, they feel constructed and forced

[skitter30]

I've read some of his games, he's usually a lot more analytic of situations.

Um did you see how he played in c++ or ...

This doesnt accurately represent his towngame currently i think

(I also doubt in his ability to be obvtown in lategame either but)

[skitter30]

I’m pretty sure rb suspected Flubs as well.

Ya it's kinda weird that scum went for rn instead of flub here

I think i'm interested in flub and nom today

[skitter30]

Survivalism is NAI btw.

I think I'll just VOTE: Wooper. He feels extremely dodgy and just going through the motions to me. If you have a towncase

Strongly disagree with all of this and i dont understand how this is a reason for scum!tw given recent context

[skitter30]

i remember how wholesome 2018 scum!skitter was
now she's a battle-worn town-slayin machine

I almost think i'm better at scum than town these days, depending on motivation

[skitter30]

skitter30 42, 5

HMMMMMMMMMMMN

It's the answer to life, the universe, and everything

[skitter30]

I tend to put draftreads on the back burner and all good townies should but that doesn't stop me from demanding I'm metacleared based entirely on draft picks

This might be townie

Also i dont think that post from billy about pm is town-indicative for pm

[skitter30]

Town: Skitter, SS,
Lean Town: Suji, Xayah, Frost, Kerset
Null-Town: Wooper
Null-scum: Flubs
Scum-lean: PM, Fetchd
Scum: Nom

That’s roughly where I’m at right now

P similar to mine, except for your leantown tier, i feel like those are all the people i'm still sorting

If i had to slot them, kerset is leantown, frost is ~nullscum, xayah is somewhere between nullscum and nulltown, and suji is ~nullscum too

You're obvtown and i would put ss down a level too

[skitter30]

I would disagree but ok

I can usually tell when people aren't posting naturally (and/or when english isnt the first language). It isnt always because they're scum but it's def something that should be looked into imo

[skitter30]

We don't even know for sure that Billy is vanilla though? Yeah he was last on the draft list so he's the most likely to be vanilla but that doesn't 'necessarily' mean he's vanilla.

why is this a scumclaim?

[skitter30]

Nom, thoughts on Flubs?

Easy to forget about the guy so your vote makes sense and I approve of it. I could vote there honestly, although Aaron seems like a much better lynch if you forget the "look at the lurkers" angle.

i can see nom/flub

[skitter30]

why is this a scumclaim?

If you stopped and thought about it for two seconds you'd realize that there's no way in hell Billy wasn't vanilla.

So why was this posted?

Well, so Aaron could emphasize of course that there's NO WAY he knew what Billy's role was because they're DEFINITELY NOT PARTNERS.

:squint:

yeah i'm not sure i see that
it's def not a scumclaim

it doesn't read that way to me, it reads more like aaron doesn't understand the setup and doesn't entirely understand why it's unlikely for billy to be a pr than for him to be faking that imo

[skitter30]

i'd really prefer nom or flub today, i think

[skitter30]

VOTE: nom

[skitter30]

I was nominally vla on fridays before, but i'm going to be really vla on fridays going forward

[skitter30]

tone

it's generic and feels LAMIST-y

again there's the whole 'reacting to a potential lynch as if it's immediate' when it, in actuality, is not; this always looks survivalistic to me

Iirc Aaron and Billy were opposition wagons yesterday too so having them as today's lynch is a non starter

i'm not sure what this is a response too, sorry

[skitter30]

Understandable criticism. Being completely honest, there were aspects of this setup that confused me at first such as the draft pick. And I did acknowledge that Billy was unlikely to be a PR but there was still a small chance that he could've gotten one. Calling attention to my partner's potential role like that is something I would never do as scum.

yeah idk it's a weird thing to say about a partner who is, in fact, vanilla

i could see a partner saying that a scum pr and are trying to provide them the oppurtunity to claim but billy flipped goon so

[skitter30]

I’m getting the feeling more and more that Frost is scum after all.

i'm not sure i'm seeing it

Rb wasn’t scumreading Nom, though.

rb was scumreading Kerset and Xayah and you've said both of them you think are town.

ya i think there's a p decent chance that there's scum in the people he was pushing

[skitter30]

So basically you were only going to take Rb’s reads into account if they were convenient for you, otherwise they’re irrelevant.

i think this is a remarkably uncharitable way to understand aaron's post, i don't think this is what he was saying at all

pedit no. weren't you on the nom wagon? plz get back on it, ty

[skitter30]

Frost is just trying to pile up reasons to vote me lol

more shadethrowing

[skitter30]

Yeah I'm deff seeing in Aaron what Luca was seeing now

i actually don't see what luca is seeing in the past couple of pages, can you elaborate please?

[skitter30]

I don't feel nearly as confident in a nom wagon than I do a Flub wagon considering if Frost flips scum that kinda clears nom. I don't think his play has improved that much today. Flub's posting hasn't really pulled me in any certain direction. I suppose I don't mind the wagon, but I'm not gonna add to it at the moment. I wanna talk about fetch considering he was one of my early trs.

...

this is also p awful
are you like scumreading frost rn?

[skitter30]

VOTE: AaronFrost

why'd you pick aaron over nom?

[skitter30]

I still reckon the Billy flip means nothing for reads on Xayah fwiw.
@suji: same diff.

how so?

[skitter30]

i *think* you're asking me why i'm objecting to your vote?

i think ss is prob town and there's like 4 people i'd rather wagon before him

[skitter30]

sorry, i'm not sure i understand what you're asking then

[skitter30]

... i was talking to you

i thought you were on the nom and switching to ss, so i was telling you to get back on

[skitter30]

. Also i wouldn't vote her just for sake of lynch, when xaya and PMyst are still about to catch up.

This is a good point, i would like these things to happen before the day ends

[skitter30]

At the end of D1 the only thing that he talked about was Billy.

This is the only thing anyone wanted to ask me about.

I was the first person to actually case Billy (iirc). Why would I do that and then drop off just when the wagon started to get serious?

No i'm p sure that was me, i thought ur vote boiled down to 'i'd rather lynch someone who i dont particularly scumread but is prob vt than someone i scumread who is prob a pr'

[skitter30]

Sirfetched 1665 is awful

[skitter30]

UNVOTE:

VOTE: Nom

Out of my three main scumreads, you’re the one I’m expecting the most from and I’m not getting it atm.

I guess when I flip you'll understand that someone's activity has nothing to do with their alignment.

You realize he isnt calling you out on activity, right?

[skitter30]

I really disagree with ur reason for voting aaron @ss

[skitter30]

That at me?

[skitter30]

Town: Skitter, SS,
Lean Town: Suji, Xayah, Frost, Kerset
Null-Town: Wooper
Null-scum: Flubs
Scum-lean: PM, Fetchd
Scum: Nom

That’s roughly where I’m at right now

P similar to mine, except for your leantown tier, i feel like those are all the people i'm still sorting

If i had to slot them, kerset is leantown, frost is ~nullscum, xayah is somewhere between nullscum and nulltown, and suji is ~nullscum too

You're obvtown and i would put ss down a level too

Still roughly here, would prob move aaron up to nulltown
Also kinda starting to lose my townread on ss

[skitter30]

@mod can be pm be prodded or replaced or something?

[skitter30]

I want pm and xayah (and/or replacements) to do things before the fay ends
Otherwise i dont have anything new to say

[skitter30]

I'm VT.

Unvote and vote in Aaron and Flubs, my lynch will lead to nothing tomorrow.

Nom you're being v like defeatist and not exactly survivalist but like ... bravado-y about the aftermath of you getting flipped and it feels v fake

[skitter30]

nomnomnom (6):

AaronFrost, skitter30, Wooper, Flubbernugget, Luca Blight, Kerset

AaronFrost (4):

Something_Smart, Sujimichi, nomnomnom, Xayah

Flubbernugget (1):

Sirfetchd

Not Voting (1):

PMysterious

With 12 alive it takes 7 to lynch.

Deadline:

(expired on 2019-11-16 06:43:00)

I like the nom wagon much more than the aaron wagon

Flub is still ... not being great, his latest string of posts feel more like ~posting because he got prodded~ than like he has anything real to say

[skitter30]

imagine if skitter was scum in a pypx/y game and we lynched her scumbuddies d1 & d2 and she solo carried for the win?
that wouldn't happen . . . right? that would just be silly . . . . . . right? haha~ ha

That's the game i have the banner for!

[skitter30]

If nom flips red then Sirfetchd is likely the last scum.

1665 was very weak reasoning for not lynching nom today. 1702 hints that he is scumreading nom, but he doesn't want to commit to it which is evidenced by his vote on me.

Ya i was thinking this too, esp with his vote on you just now

[skitter30]

Like I think you get jack shit from the flip regardless of alignment. Maybe that changes with this fight over the two major wagons but for the moment, it looks like a really great Lynch for a subsequent day.

Also ducky. If I was scum with nom, I would have hard pushed it once people came up with the weak relationals and not let go.

Posts like these read partner-y, or almost like mason-y (like he knows the alignment of the other person, doesnt want to say why/how and so dances around it weirdly)
But masons arent a thing here so ...

[skitter30]

The one thing that's niggling me about nom is that she also picked 4 in the draft.

I'm not saying that being in a double pair with scum is inherently townie, *but* if scum did in fact double up on purpose for the wifom i'd kinda expect scum to be referencing that to try to make themselves townier when in trouble ... that's why they'd have doubled up in the first place

And nom isnt doing that here

But her play this phase has been so awful that i'm not sure that counteracts that

[skitter30]

What was the point of redacting it?
I thought that was a reference to ongoing games, checked your topics but didnt see any overlap with nom games

But i just cant see her play here coming from town here either

[skitter30]

Like given the fact that I have one real scum read who isn't getting lynched bc scum killed the other person who believed in it and they were the competing wagon to a scum flip (which I have explained already why that gives zero points either way on alignment) means I have to go for what feels like the best Lynch of wagons I don't believe in.

Can u say this again but like really slowly?

[skitter30]

This is already changing with the vehemence of opposition to Aaron's wagon

Where do you see this happening

[skitter30]

Sirfetched i'm confused why ur so vehemently opposed to nom

[skitter30]

ya nom's tone is just like ... very very very weird and i have a hard time understanding how it comes from town

[skitter30]

I agree. However, I am liking Sirfetchd a little more based on posting this page.

ok why

[skitter30]

can i talk abt something that might be a tiny bit antitown

idk it depends on what it is

[skitter30]

3. Sujimichi

also you're townreading them this strongly?

[skitter30]

power role tinfoil
particularly aaron/noms
this is on the proviso that aaron explicitly ignores everything i say on the subject

idk

[skitter30]

i was literally just thinking that aaron is crumbing n2 vig too

i didn't think that wrt to nom but that actually makes a ton of sense wrt how she's playing rn

[skitter30]

i mean if those are both true the way to solve it is to have aaron shoot nom

actually i don't know if vengeful is only for a lynch or else for dying at night

[skitter30]

idk i'm not vibing town!suji that strongly rn

[skitter30]

where are you at?

is this at me?

i feel like if nom is a scum venge there's a decent chance i get venged here tho

[skitter30]

i don't know

you don't feel ~scummy~ per se but:

- i still don't like your pop-in at eod 1 and how you hammered there (i know we talked about it but i still feel that way)
- there were a few townie posts that i kinda liked

but holistically i just don't feel comfortable townbinning you rn

idk how to explain that better

[skitter30]

yeah, at you. i know i got a readlist off you like yesterday just wondering how you're feeling at a "hey these are my strong townreads" level

luca's my strongest townread rn

other townreads, but like on a lower tier but def not interested in lynching today: you and kerset. i guess probably ss too but i'm not tr'ing him as strongly anymore

so less than i'd like; i have a whole lot of people in the null/nullscum range

[skitter30]

Ok, so you don't feel comfortable placing me as town in your list. You are actively challenging others, however, so I thought there was more concern on your part.

well more like if he was seeing something i wasn't that should be making me townbin since i don't see it rn

[skitter30]

* me townbin you

[skitter30]

ya

[skitter30]

either 5 or 6, i'm not sure

[skitter30]

Ok, so you don't feel comfortable placing me as town in your list. You are actively challenging others, however, so I thought there was more concern on your part.

well more like if he was seeing something i wasn't that should be making me townbin since i don't see it rn

Ok. I get the feeling you want to scumread me, and I don't think you can't fault me for thinking otherwise given you attempt to interact with me but when I answer you don't respond in any way and you challenge people when they town read me. That doesn't feel like honestly sorting me.

That is my feeling. I can't attribute a positive alignment rationale to it, so I'm not sure why you want to do that.

ok

i think the problem is that i'm having trouble figuring out ~why~ i don't have warm and fuzzy feelings about just townbinning you, even though i did like a few of your posts in isolation

so like the whole read rn is kinda reducing down to ~gut~ which is, i know, entirely unhelpful but this is how i feel rn

so when i saw that someone else is townreading you i thought i'd ask why because i'm not super solid in this read

and do u think i ~should~ be townreading u rn?

wait pedits

[skitter30]

ok i'll take another look at suji when i get a chance

i agree that xayah needs to be analyzed more tom

[skitter30]

It makes little sense how Nom suspected Xayah and then suddenly flipped this D1 when the Xayah wagon picked up.

huh

billy vote was weird af tho and just felt very ~wrong~, maybe that was distancing?
but then that did revive the billy wagon so that'd have to have been some committed bussing

[skitter30]

lol I have to admit it's fun to see people scumread me for a thousand different reasons

if that doesn't ring an alarm bell that scum are pushing the easiest lynch by all means hammer me and feel stupid tomorrow lmao

Also Luca what the fuck is that about me and my ego about my scumgame and stuff? People trying to armchair psychology me or something damn

...

[skitter30]

nom i think that you have a v good scumgame and that this looks nothing like it
... but this also looks nothing like your towngame either and you're just saying things that are kinda bizarre in context and if you're town here i kinda need help seeing it because the cumulative effect of all of this is: scum!nom

[skitter30]

you know what
VOTE: xayah

Can u get back on nom plz

[skitter30]

nom i think that you have a v good scumgame and that this looks nothing like it
... but this also looks nothing like your towngame either and you're just saying things that are kinda bizarre in context and if you're town here i kinda need help seeing it because the cumulative effect of all of this is: scum!nom

The anger, frustration, and maybe(?) the giving up fits her scum meta

Giving up doesnt imo
Not even the anger/frustration either really

But this doesnt fit her town meta either ...

I'm saying i'm not sure that meta is the best way to read her rn

[skitter30]

I think it's time for this

VOTE: flub

[skitter30]

I feel like we've been letting him skate by for a while on being first in the draft order

[skitter30]

Tfw you have a good scumgame

@adorable are you scumreading me for anything other than paranoia or ...?

[skitter30]

Hey skitter hey skitter

also adorable has too many scumreads don't worry too much

Hey ducky

[skitter30]

by ~awful~ i meant 'posting in a way that looks very very very scummy'

i wasn't trying to come off as rude so much as trying to indicate how i felt about it

do you have soemthing in particular you'd like me to explain or ?

i dont' really do wallposts anymore

[skitter30]

by ~awful~ i meant 'posting in a way that looks very very very scummy'

i wasn't trying to come off as rude so much as trying to indicate how i felt about it

do you have soemthing in particular you'd like me to explain or ?

i dont' really do wallposts anymore

You said Xayah's post #1614 looked awful and you also said Sirfetch's post #1665 looked awful and you were not explaining on why their posts looked awful since I didn't see anything wrong with those posts and it looked like they were bringing their thoughts out.

the thoughts were p bad. do u want me to go back and explain why i thought that or ...

[skitter30]

i think adorable is town btw
i scumread pmysterious so i didn't see this coming
but rereading their posts overnight they feel so pure and cute

i'm not sure i really vibe with this

For the argument that nom was gonna provide info, we've got a fat lot of no-one slinging punches.

i mean i think we should be pushing flub today, but ok

ok w/e nobody noticed

xayah wasn't the scum kill, i'm n2 vig

i thought that aaron was n2 vig

also think skitter letting that slide but not picking up on the soft is likely an anti-tpr hunting tell btw town equity is up

to quote ss:

this crumb





my head

[skitter30]

U

nderstandable criticism.

B

eing completely honest, there were aspects of this setup that confused me at first such as the draft pick.

A

nd I did acknowledge that Billy was unlikely to be a PR but there was still a small chance that he could've gotten one.

C

alling attention to my partner's potential role like that is something I would never do as scum.

why'd you crumb like ... mid day2?

[skitter30]

The issue with UB is that scum are forced in to taking the useless cop bc it's a scum claim otherwise bc role cop is a trash role in this setup when you have a draft order and can generally guess who has what.

i'm not sure scum should be picking in that bracket at all tbh

i'm not sure i'm liking this claim from aaron

or, more accratley, i think he probably is the universal backup slot/pair/bracket but i'm not convinced he's a town one

[skitter30]

also @wooper y r u townreading sirfetched so strongly?

[skitter30]

i'm not sure scum should be picking in that bracket at all tbh

or, more accurately:
i don't think scum should pick that bracket to begin with anyways since rolecop is a very very very scummy role in this setup so they'd need to pick

like once they're in the bracket rolecop has more utility but looks much scummier so i think they should robably pick ub but i think they should avoid being in that bracket in the first place imo

[skitter30]

I'm also inclined to believe Wooperst's claim so I can add him to the town pile.

you realize that true!claim != town in this setup, right?

[skitter30]

and getting your top placing scum slot to grab rolecop/unibackup is dumb

ya ok this is fair, and what i was thinking too

i think he is that slot
i'm not sure the claim is inherently townie
but i agree that having the top scumpick pick rolecop / ub is dumb so he'd prob have to be scum with whoever's ahead of him in the draft

i think that would be flub/ss/sirfetched
flub i don't really see plannign this

ss maybe
sirfetched idk

[skitter30]

Wait do you guys imply that he wanted UB? Looks for me like "I will take this weakling as second choice in case someone takes away my preferred role, it would be lame to be vanilla".

right i forgot about the second pick again

[skitter30]

@skitter, remove flubb, add you/me

i meant literally above him in the order (i.e. aaron is 5 and flub is 1)

but ya you/me/ss (and like nom, i guess) are the people who do that, i think

[skitter30]

idk i don't think i have any meta on sirfetched so that isn't particularly useful to me; i don't feel like i have much reason to tr him from what he's been doing here

[skitter30]

you realize that true!claim != town in this setup, right?

I think the point is that he could easily have just used it as a second scum kill and then claimed VT.

i'm not sure i'm following.
if there's a second nk and nobody claims vig the vts are going to be scrutinized

[skitter30]

ya ok if aaron would be the {top scum} he's probably town, ub is a not the best thing to pick first as scum imo

[skitter30]

i mean ... the second nk would have had to come from somewhere, so it would make it incredibly obvious someone's lying if nobody claimed it

[skitter30]

does it help at all considering whether this is a returning player scumming, or a returning player towning?

i think i need to reread him, a lot of what he's said feels kinda ~running together~ in my head, if that makes sense
he could be feeling off if he's a returning player and not really like used to current meta, i guess

[skitter30]

It's a dece No.2 I guess? Especially if scum used al their their picks for info gathering. Depends if aaronscum is next to his partner. Can see it in that situation.

if it's a coached fakeclaim i'm a touch surprised he didn't just say he did cop>unibackup tbh

? not sure i'm following

[skitter30]

meh aaron's realtime with you is p good @wooper

[skitter30]

i'm fine with the order proposed

[skitter30]

I picked whatever I thought would be most helpful to town/didn't want scum to have. UB is a good town utility which is why I wanted to try for that first.

this post in particular felt good to me @wooper
he'd had to have been coached v well to write this on the fly i think

[skitter30]

Wooper planned this whole course of action for his personal advantage. All he wanted was to shine during massclaim, which he planned for this day but some things got his way. Xayah could clarify herself, if she would get time for it.

huh

[skitter30]

VOTE: Adorable

To all the people complaining that I'm useless, please stop, I've given more than enough readable content. If there's something you want from me that you aren't getting, let me introduce you to a wonderful thing called asking.

i'm just kinda confused why your content dropped so hard from day1 to day2

like day1 you were like ~super townie~
and then day2 your whole posting style utterly changed and getting thoguhts out of you is like pulling teeth

[skitter30]

on kerset...they are clearly not trying to read the game and solve alignments. i'm on the fence about whether or not they are reading the game at all.

their reads are like... i don't know if i need to go into why they concern me

they're posting is like so random and out there that it shoots past being scummy and wraps around the other side back to townie almost, if htat makes sense

[skitter30]

on kerset...they are clearly not trying to read the game and solve alignments. i'm on the fence about whether or not they are reading the game at all.

their reads are like... i don't know if i need to go into why they concern me

they're posting is like so random and out there that it shoots past being scummy and wraps around the other side back to townie almost, if htat makes sense

i'm not sure i really agree with the assessment that they aren't reading the game at all
they def are, they're just coming from a very different perspective.
so i'm not sure i agree with saying that they aren't trying to solve either

[skitter30]

I don't really think I've been actively avoiding answering questions posed at me, it's just that not that many people have asked for my opinion which is about normal,

and for the most part I haven't been offering it unsolicited

.

ya this is the part that i feel like has been difficult

i'm particularly thinking of when you were asked about your reads you were like
{luca}
{everyone else}
{aaron}

it felt v evasive and like you were trying not to answer the question

[skitter30]

ss i dont' entirely understand why you're opposing massclaim rn

[skitter30]

I also support a mass claim and I think we can figure out which claim is scum and which is town. I have a theory but I don't want to say it if we don't mass claim because I get the feeling scum will jinx my theory. Btw, I have been v/la since I replaced in and I didn't think it would matter if I didn't activate v/la since I'm still able to log in.

@ wooper i'm maybe seeing what you're seeing with adorable here

[skitter30]

I'm leaning towards lynching Flubs before Frost, but I think we need a mass-claim to progress here.

I don't mind going first - I'm VT.

let's go in order plz

[skitter30]

I'm not going to be able to fully catch up in time so I am just going to claim.

I went for the 1-shot PGO. My thought was in getting first pick I was going to be a prime target for scum to kill, so if I timed it right I could knock off a scum without sacrificing a more powerful role as an early kill. There was a time a while ago where I was getting NK'd early because games wouldn't go anywhere and I was able to look town enough make for a good target. I tried tapping into it but because I've been so lax in more recent times it threw people off and basically failed.

I tried at the very beginning of the game to slip as though I picked governor since that's something scum would want to get out of the way early, but by the end of D1 I sat in everyone's null pile so as far as I was concerned that was a failure. I still have my shot.

this is is a p scummy claim

when's the last time you were nk'd?
is this why you were try-harding and being so weird (for you) day?
if your plan was to be townie enough to eat the nk why didn't you try again yesterday?

[skitter30]

I'm confused as to what I should do when it is my turn.

claim your role and then first and second pick

[skitter30]

Flubb, I've never known you to be an obv town kind of player. Especially with your level of activity in this game. Like ok fine, I can accept not taking cop bc you might be targeted mechanically if town, but there's also JK, JOAT, Doc that are high power slots that can be devestating in the hands of scum.

I feel you are missing a lot of the paranoia I would expect. If the slots behind you are all scum then you have handed them power while they are probably able to work out with some amount of decency and the entire thing fails. If you don't obv town it fails.

Right now it looks like you have picked a role that can ensure multiple town deaths.

i feel like if he's a town pgo he's played this kinda wrong
but if he's scum and was like trying to get investigated or something he's doing p much exactly what he needs to be doing

[skitter30]

Also, could it be possible rb targeted Flubs N1 and scum’s kill was blocked again?

i think this is a p fringe case scneario and probably isn't something that needs to be considered seriously

[skitter30]

Also, could it be possible rb targeted Flubs N1 and scum’s kill was blocked again?

Edge cases...

I mean it's just as possible Flubber is actually scum vig who made a second shot N1, and one of them was blocked.

I think Flubs as scum likely chooses pgo over vig given his play style. I know if I were a pr I’d have probably targeted him N1 as well, because he’s the sort of player that’s hard to read.

that's actually what a50 did last iteration of this setup; he purposefully picked pgo and lolhammered to bait town investigatives

(not that anyone visited him and then i had to bus him and solo carry, but you know)

[skitter30]

@Something_Smart now is safe for at least today because of 766. I think it's the first person that got the reference.

I just remembered this btw. Don't know if anyone cares but if you think I'd let my scumbuddy post this to me and not bus him into the next dimension, you'd be wrong.

i dont' get why that's a bus-worthy post

[skitter30]

my second pick was woooooptcher (watcher)!
Suji picks are actually full blown spicy

Why Neighbouriser over gunsmith? & why watcher over commuter?

I'm not sure why they are spicy. I prefer talking with people so a role that would allow me to do that without the noise from the main thread is appealing. The gunsmith role has too many false positives associated with it for it be of interest to me. I don't see the benefit of town taking the commuter role, and think that the watcher role would potentially give more useful information.

this actually feels kinda lightly townie

[skitter30]

i still endorse and support flub today

i don't have much else to say rn

[skitter30]

i'm gunsmith
(my second pick was n2 vig)

n1 - aaron; has no gun
n2 - ss; no result

[skitter30]

If for whatever reason I am alive for the night aaron should investigate me

You'll either get a result on me or a flip on a controversial slot

um no

[skitter30]

(town) commuter should be claiming early imo
i'm not sure that town picks commuter in the first place either tho

[skitter30]

he didn't have a gun n1 and he's now claiming backup cop

i think if i'd have checked him last night he'd have showed up with a gun

as far as i'm aware, scum only don't show up as having a gun if they're also a doctor and i think that {aaron being maf doc who claimed backup turned cop} is probably not super likely?

[skitter30]

so basically yeah i think he's clear

that's why i wasn't really interested in him yesterday

[skitter30]

yep

[skitter30]

huh, i could have sworn it got guilties on cops too

i dont' really do crumbs

[skitter30]

i feel like it would have been obvious after i flipped given how i dropped the aaron read like a hot potato

[skitter30]

gunsmith innos in this game aren't really hard innos; at that point i was still kinda scum-reading him on play but wasn't particularly interested in pushing him given the result, so he ended up ~nullscum

given the cop claim he's p much clear now tho

[skitter30]

These two explanations are not compatible.

i was referring to why i put him as ~nullscum there in particular

holistically i felt like the fact i dropped the read would make it obviosu in hindsight

[skitter30]

These two explanations are not compatible.

i was referring to why i put him as ~nullscum there in particular

holistically i felt like the fact i dropped the read would make it obviosu in hindsight

'

There in particular

' was D2, after your result, and the very point I'd look back to see any 'crumb' you might have left behind.

You may have not pushed Frost as much, but it is in no way obvious, looking back, that you had that result on him.

I realise 'no gun' isn't a hard inno, but considering the only way he could be scum in such a scenario is if he picked Doctor (and roleblocker is a better scum role imo) you should have at least accepted my Frost Town-lean rather than going out of your way to disagree with it. It doesn't make sense.

i disagree, but ok
again, there i was referring to his play which i was decidedly not townreading

[skitter30]

By the way, mafia doctor doesn't show up as having no gun. Again, read the role PM's...

i kinda just assumed it was a normal gunsmith ...

ok so sirfetched blocked flub and you commuted
i think that the only ways the nk could have gone missing is if either flub did the nk or scum targeted you, is that right?

or am i missing something?

pedit or i guess nominally that xayah was the nk ... but i dont' think that's likely at all whatsoever

[skitter30]

right
but i don't think that's a super likely option

[skitter30]

conditional commuter is an active ability, right?
i.e. kerset had to have chosen to commuted and it doesn't just happen automatically each night?

and they didn't commute last night

[skitter30]

probably not, you were not super townread yesterday

[skitter30]

probably not, you were not super townread yesterday

that's kinda why i tried to check you

[skitter30]

ok w/e nobody noticed

xayah wasn't the scum kill, i'm n2 vig

i thought that aaron was n2 vig

Skitter....explain this as well, please.

i don't really like to claim for other people or out other people's roles for them prematurely (see: egix in the c++ that just ended where i figured out he was a doc very early and very deliberately didn't say that for like three irl weeks and even kinda lynched someone else without saying why because i thought they were trying to lynch them, all instead of just saying i was townreading him strongly or something, oops).
that's what aaron had been softing day2 so i was kinda running with it for the moment; i was p sure massclaim was going to be today/in the immediate future and since i wasn't, like, dead i knew i'd have the opportunity to explicitly share the result

if i were scum and making this up i:

- could have faked a result on like xayah or rb or someone already dead
- wouldn't inno the cop claim of all people
- wouldn't claim a no result on a night that we're almost for sure missing an nk

i like to imagine that i'm decent enough at this game as scum that i wouldn't deliberately put myself in a shitty position that i know would look bad. like you literally just saw scum!me pull this off about a billion times better than i'd have to be doing here so we know i could make something up that sounds fairly plausible so like ... what is scum!me even doing here ... ?

i don't really do crumbs, and i felt like it would have been p clear what my result was given how i just dropped the read out of nowhere. given that you and everyone else is telling me that it wasn't really obvious then i guess wasn't as clear i could have been

[skitter30]

Skitter checked Aaron on N1 and she put Aaron as nullscum on D2 even though she cleared Aaron with her night action. Skitter scum reading Aaron after checking him looks inconsistent and I can see a Billy/Flub/Skitter scum team.

If these really are the scum team then I must have scum read these players correctly with my reads.

yeah this is kinda townie

[skitter30]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

ok
why do you see me/suji?

[skitter30]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

Where does the nk go in that situation. Is Xayah double shot?

Skitter might have tried to NK SS instead of investigating him.

yes, and claiming a no result as scum in that situation is a great plan, i agree

[skitter30]

For example, I could see a Skitter/Suji possibility.

The only reason I TR Suji was because of his interactions with Billy.

Do they both hard secure their team mate's death. Like skitter MADE billy the Lynch, p much singlehandedly. Which I can see. I feel like skitter probably coaches Suji and billy better than that.

Err, no, I made the Billy lynch single-handedly, not Skitter.

Suji jumped on when Billy was beyond saving.

i mean, i dont' think the wagon would have shifted to billy if i hadn't voted him at that point in the day, but ok

[skitter30]

Like convincing people means nothing bc it was a 1 hose race until skit reignited billy. I guess she maybe tells Suji to jump on for vaca wifom idk.

no, if i'm scum with billy and suji and the plan is bus billy i tell suji to get on really early instead of doing a half-assed hammer that wouldnt' have given him town cred

[skitter30]

The point is we agree skit is very very like as close as possible to lock level likely scum here. This wagon mechanics debate has no bearing on gamestate at all.

explain how i'm 'very very like as close as possible to lock level likely scum', ty

[skitter30]

Regarding the above, I haven’t checked for associatives yet but I have a feeling about Skitter/Suji, and they claimed the same brackets.

... and i tell my partner to claim the same brackets as me because

[skitter30]

I would rather VOTE: skitter. The evidence is stronger here. Anyway no Aaron on flubs next night.

do tell

[skitter30]

If Flubs is telling the truth then the most likely scenario i can see is someone attempting to NK SS, and Skitter is already claiming a night action on SS...

so scum!me thinks this is a good idea to claim because ...
the things you're suggesting i'm doing are kinda ridiculous

[skitter30]

Actually I have another theory. It is not the best one but raises the chance of innocent flub.
In the truth wooper is vengeful not vigi. Scumteam killed xaya to clear his role and wooper is the one who performed fractional kill on n2. Skitter was the one who made n1 kill. Skitter was unlikely to be tracked but on n2 it was better for wooper to be tracked.

In any case Aaron looks to be inno. Sorry man I was wrong.

um no

i don't entirely understand why you're making up tinfoil hat theories to try to explain what happened to the nk and trying to look for reasons that could make flub look good when the simplest explanation for what happened to the nk is that he got rb'd

[skitter30]

Your claim is BS and you know it.

This game is going to feel like pulling teeth if we twiddle thumbs on flub and skit and let them both get soap boxes.

no, it isn't, ty

[skitter30]

why exactly do you think i'm mechanically scum here ... ?

[skitter30]

I'm leaning more on the associates being Flub/Skitter. Flub tried to perform the kill and failed because he got jailed. Only way I could think of Skitter performing the night kill is if she tried to kill SS and if she did tried to kill SS, then she would have invested someone else.

can you explain this again please?

[skitter30]

Actually it's not even policy. He's been playing like a scum pgo and he claimed pgo.

p much

[skitter30]

skitter I can see doing this as either alignment tbqh. I had a reasonably strong reason for thinking she was town yday but I kinda forgot it. I might need to reread some. Regardless the most concerning thing I *think* is how difficult her n1 result crumb is to follow

since apparently no one got it i'll have to be more explicit next time

[skitter30]

There's also a "scum no-killed" option somewhere in there, either for shits and giggles or out of complete apathy.

i mean ... i don't think this is particularly likely

[skitter30]

gunsmith innos in this game aren't really hard innos; at that point i was still kinda scum-reading him on play but wasn't particularly interested in pushing him given the result, so he ended up ~nullscum

given the cop claim he's p much clear now tho

This actually makes sense if skitt thought there was a chance of me being a scum doc.

What was with the 'Aaron might be a N2 vig' then?

you were softing that day2 and didn't really see a reason not to let you do your thing since we were probably massclaiming today anyways

[skitter30]

Didn't skitter win as scum by clearing a townie recently?

yep, i'm p proud of how that game turned out
mini normal 2101 i think; it was skygazer's game and i was scum with robb and it was great

[skitter30]

Bc your results do not match your play.

You fucked up, that's fine, it happens. But this trying to pull wool over our eyes doesn't work if you have no wool. There is no chance I am believing you gunsmithed Aaron night 1 then spent actual time calling him null-scum while he was one of the top wagons.

i was v strongly against the wagon and i wouldn't have let it gone through if it had the potential to acutally, like, lynch him

[skitter30]

Don't clear skitter mechanically unless she's cop inno'd friends /o/
she's the deepwolf and she knows it!

indeed

[skitter30]

I don't need to engage you tbh, you're dying anyway.

Pedit: Sure Jan

no, i think you're see that other people are scumreading me and taking the oppurtunity to shade me to see if you can set me up as a mislynch; you're trying to sell the notion that i'm mechanically lockscum when i most definitively am not

[skitter30]

Duck, skit and flub are like both super scum. We do one today and the other tomorrow. I don't think it makes a difference who which is why I didn't move agree skits claim. Both are like 99.99999999999 percent scum bc afaik skit doesn't suffer amnesia episodes and flub was the only blocked person on a kill less night.

oh here you're doing it again, you're calling me as scummy as the guy you have a jk-guilty on

[skitter30]

Whatever was wrong with her claim, her activity nosedived after being called out and it's not a weekend

no, i've had a very busy week irl this week, ty; my activity has been down across the board

[skitter30]

Yes, Skitter in that game got lucky and literally guessed I was VT after fake-claiming role-cop, and that’s another reason I think she could have attempted to NK SS and claim an unsuccessful result instead.

Will catch up on the other posts in a bit.

i mean i'd never claim unsuccssful result on a night that a nk is very obviously missing, but ok

[skitter30]

no, in the other game i was a vanilla cop who checked you n1 and that's how i knew you were a vt ...
i wouldn't have claimed it if i didn't know that

and i was planning it since like mid day1 and was making sure to plant crumbs along the way

and if i were scum who did the nk but saw it didn't actually happen how do i know if:
- i got jk'd or rb'd
- ss got docced
- ss commuted

[skitter30]

and why the fuck do i claim a result that i know will implicate me when i could just .... not

[skitter30]

you realize i was scum in that game, right

[skitter30]

So you only crumb as scum?

i'm saying that i care about making claims look good as scum

[skitter30]

Ok skitter. Lets have a chat about how you are now lashing out at me in classic OMGUS fashion while not explaining how me scum in your head makes ANY sense when you also think flub is scum?

Like if your proposed scum team me and flub?

REALLLLLLLLY think about that one.

yes, i understand that you're claiming a jk on flub and that he's probably responsible for the missing nk

and that this is a weird and ambitious way to bus here
so i think that you probably both aren't scum but i think the way you're interacting with me rn is scummy
that may be a weird line to draw but that's what i feel rn

[skitter30]

Nah I'm done with this.

Lynch flub.
Lynch skit.
Win game.

Stop engaging with them and vote, it's not like we have to wait for claims.

...

[skitter30]

Maybe but not necessary. I think you could well be setting up lynches here.

I need to think things over more.

i mean yes, i think that's what he's doing

[skitter30]

Skitter did you ever explain why you acted suspicious of Aaron or why you said you thought he was vig?

yes, see above

[skitter30]

I didnt get a result last night
I tried to check sirfetched

[skitter30]

Got a not guilty on Kerset.

I'd still like an answer to this question.

you were softing that day2 and didn't really see a reason not to let you do your thing since we were probably massclaiming today anyways

Okay but like my soft could be applied to other roles on that list, including the one I actually claimed. Obviously you knew that I couldn't be the N2 vig (or any other vig for that matter) so what did you think I was softing?

I wasnt sure, but could tell u were softing a pr since u very much wanted to be alive at night, scum are sometines survivalistic but it's usually not geared towards 'i want to be alive at night', that tends to come from prs more than anything else

Why'd you check kerset ?

[skitter30]

you know that thinking thing? I did that backwards
skitter is scum

Ducky sweaty i think you have approximately no idea how to read me these days

[skitter30]

Skitter didn't know I was commuting though. I could have been saved by doc or JK.

In fact if Flubber is town, then I was probably the NK target, which somewhat spews skitter as town because she knew I commuted and why would she gunsmith me and kill me.

uhh hold on someone look into this I'm not smart

I just think skitter is scummy bc my totally sweet soft went unnoticed and it doesn't really feel like she's been sorting me/like many people with much intensity this game

also kinda agree the treatment of Aaron post gs inno was a little sketchy especially like given e.g. her scumcase on volpe in lylo of that c9++ game which ended revolving around his uncomfortable handling of his alleged inno

blahhh idk

I think my play around aaron was fine, i still think people would have gotten it

I'm scummy for ... not noticing your soft? I feel like if i were scum i'd be super attuned to that sort of thing
I disagree with not sorting people, i think i've been doing just that

[skitter30]

vote skit

Tried to block kill by blocking skit. Didn't work.

Yep, blocking an investigative is a great idea, good plan

[skitter30]

Yea you are fine i was bluffing.

Interesting

What were you trying to accomplish there?

[skitter30]

His response was p townie, ya
If he committed to a vt claim yesterday not sure he'd change his claim today tho despite a reaction test

[skitter30]

Aaron invested Kerset and so the scum are either Skitter, Sirfetch, or Suji? Why did Aaron not die? Normally it's always the cop that gets killed off first after a mass claim.

Aaron has to be town from my pov and he's innoed kerset which leaves:

Me, sirfetched, luca, suji, wooper, and you

I'd order them from least to most likely to be scum as:

Sirfetched, suji, adorable, luca/wooper

Also i thought i was voting sirfetched

VOTE: sirfetched

Sirfetched was trying to set up a me/flub mislynch chain yesterday; ss dying over aaron last night makes sense in that context

[skitter30]

Aaron invested Kerset and so the scum are either Skitter, Sirfetch, or Suji? Why did Aaron not die? Normally it's always the cop that gets killed off first after a mass claim.

S_S could heal aaron.

Ya that too, i think in context ss was more dangerous

[skitter30]

And tbh I think JK is a role that benefits scum more than Town in this setup, while also not looking like an obviously scummy choice (like PGO).

I’ve had a bad feeling about Fetchd ever since he made his claim.

Ya and he chose to rb me

[skitter30]

We established at the end of the previous day that Town!Flubs meant Skitter was more likely town. Fetchd then blocks the best PR left which is just anti-Town in general, because even if we were to lynch Skitter today that info could have proven valuable.

VOTE: Fetchd

Why wouldn't Fetchd block me then? My power is arguably more useful than skitt's.

Why exactly does Flubb flipping town make skitter more likely to be town again?

because i knew that ss had commuted that night

[skitter30]

Why'd you check kerset ?

They were a null/question mark slot.

i'd have checked me

[skitter30]

Am I the only one seeing Fetchd/skitter team right now? Like Fetchd blocking skitter is a bad move regardless of their alignment. UNLESS they're scum together and they're attempting to bus each other. Like I think Fetchd is smart enough to know that skitter's not going to be doing the kill after yesterday and that he's better off going for one of the VT claims.

And why exactly did skitter check Fetchd? There were better slots to check in my opinion.

The fact that they targeted each other does not feel like a coincidence to me.

yep, this is why he's scummy

i checked him because i felt yesterday like he was trying to set me up for a mislynch today, esp. in light of the flub greenflip.
i don't understand his read on me or how he came to the conclusion that i'm lock/mechanically scum yesterday

[skitter30]

Yes, I made that point already.

Regardless of his read on you, jailing the gunsmith claim in this setup is a terrible play and scum-motivated imo.

Not if she is confirmed scum, which she is.

My other option was the jk ss or Aaron to try and block the kill but to block an investigative with lower scum chance than skit is a worse idea when there's only a 50% chance of protecting the right one.

again i don't understand why you think i'm confirmed scum; your read on me is stronger than it makes any sense to be

[skitter30]

what am I missing fypov?

i'm not sure, but i'm not sure why you're not seeing town!me here; i think i'm p far out of my scumrange

[skitter30]

i mean i kinda wished you checked me

[skitter30]

We lynch Fetchd today, there are then no more roleblockers in the game.

Skitter investigates Suji, Frost investigates Adorbs or Wooper.

Frost is most likely killed, but Skitter will have a result. If Fetchd flips green (unlikely) then we lynch Skitter to confirm the result.

Between Skitter/Fetchd there is surely at least one scum. By the time they're both dead the game is basically solved by PoE.

i endorse this product and/or service

[skitter30]

I'd like to hear from Fetchd why exactly he targeted skitter first.

Same with skitt, I'd like to hear why she targeted Fetchd.

because of his read on me yesterday

[skitter30]

You didn't call JK scum pick yesterday and as far as I recall JK was statistically picked by town.
I can totally see the idea behind jailing skitter, he was SR and didn't expect to be jailed.
VOTE: skitter

no

[skitter30]

Suji does not have a gun

I am very vla this weekend and traveling; i will be around tomorrow night hopefully but i wanted to get that out there ^

[skitter30]

About to go out but will quickly summarize.

We no-lynch, Skitter investigates Adorable, then we’re left with 5 alive the game is basically solved. Either Skitter tells the truth and we lynch in Adorable/Wooper, if she lies then we lynch her in LYLO. If Skitter is NK then that’s fine as it saves lynching her.

interesting plan

i need to go through all the different permutations and figure out what would be optimal but i think this is a pretty decent idea ^

[skitter30]

Do you really think that town!skitter would just survive up to tomorrow? Sounds like 1% chance.

The point is, we don’t know she is Town. If she eats the NK then it’s better than having to lynch her.

If we ML then Skitter could be kept alive for WIFOM reasons, as we’re then in a MYLO situation.

Right now my *gut feeling* is that Wooper is the final scum.

given the ~ruckus~ about me this game i'm honestly not sure i get nk'd here; i think last scum needs me alive to push me as a mislynch

[skitter30]

Because i am a paranoid person. If you look at his progression through this whole game, he is extremely correct about everything. He likes to wave between two subjects but in overall D2 was the only place, where he didn't knew the correct choice.

is this talking about wooper or luca?

[skitter30]

for posterity I also think skitter has towntold.
no lynch plan is v good

skitter check me tonight imo, creates a dichotomy of either (guilty) {me, skitter}, (inno) {adorbs, skitter}

no i can't check you, i'd get a guilty no matter your alignment
you're not clearable anymore

[skitter30]

ok i need to go through the different permutations of how to play out the rest of the game

givens: 1. kerset and suji are cleared 2. wooper is not clearable

i'm trying to write this from an objective poe, not just mine

-> no lynch today. tonight i check one of {luca/adorable}, probably on adorable since i tr luca more
-- > if i die than tomorrow it's {luca, adorable, suji, kerset, wooper}. not quite on auto but suji and kerset will both be alive and have two shots to find the one scum in {luca, adorable, wooper}
-- > if i live, one of suji/kerset will die presumably.
--- > if i get an inno on adorable than it's just {suji/kerset, adorable, me, wooper, luca}, and we have two days to find scum in {me, wooper, luca}.
--- > if i get a guilty on adorable than it's just gg

-> lynch someone today, using wooper as an concrete example just to make it easeir for me to follow this
-- > if he's scum gg
-- > if he's inno, then someone dies overnight
--- > me, then it's {kerset, suji, luca, adorable}, with kerset and suji deciding between luca and adorable, with two innos and a dichotomy in {luca/adorable}
--- > if it's not me, then i get another result, on one of adorable/luca, probably on adorable since i tr them less, and then are {suji/kerset, luca, adorable, me}, with two innos and a dichotomy in {me/luca}

if i did this right i think if we lynch someone today we force a dichotomy with two innos tomorrow

and if we no lynch we have two days to find one scum in three people

i think it's impossible to get the game fully on auto tho

i think a lot of this depends on which mylo/lylo the clears want to have given that they're ultimately the ones that will have to make the choice

[skitter30]

ok i need to go through the different permutations of how to play out the rest of the game

givens: 1. kerset and suji are cleared 2. wooper is not clearable

i'm trying to write this from an objective poe, not just mine

-> no lynch today. tonight i check one of {luca/adorable}, probably on adorable since i tr luca more
-- > if i die than tomorrow it's {luca, adorable, suji, kerset, wooper}. not quite on auto but suji and kerset will both be alive and have two shots to find the one scum in {luca, adorable, wooper}
-- > if i live, one of suji/kerset will die presumably.
--- > if i get an inno on adorable than it's just {suji/kerset, adorable, me, wooper, luca}, and we have two days to find scum in {me, wooper, luca}.
--- > if i get a guilty on adorable than it's just gg

-> lynch someone today, using wooper as an concrete example just to make it easeir for me to follow this
-- > if he's scum gg
-- > if he's inno, then someone dies overnight
--- > me, then it's {kerset, suji, luca, adorable}, with kerset and suji deciding between luca and adorable, with two innos and a dichotomy in {luca/adorable}
--- > if it's not me, then i get another result, on one of adorable/luca, probably on adorable since i tr them less, and then are {suji/kerset, luca, adorable, me}, with two innos and a dichotomy in {me/luca}

if i did this right i think if we lynch someone today we force a dichotomy with two innos tomorrow

and if we no lynch we have two days to find one scum in three people

i think it's impossible to get the game fully on auto tho

i think a lot of this depends on which mylo/lylo the clears want to have given that they're ultimately the ones that will have to make the choice