Guns & Roses III [Game over]

[Amrun]

wait what did I miss? why is alimdia scum?

This is really early game. Associative telling if scum.

Posting stuff like 'waiting for smt to happen' while having a scumread that ur not pushing or engaging with is mehhhh

If you think menal townslipped and considering that he did pretty much the same thing in post 86 that you're voting sal for, couldnt sal just as easily be town?

Trying to add more townreads to someone’s reads is +town

I'm always slow to vote beyond rvs, just a really slow starter in general

Tbh I don't have any major scumleans at the moment, creature is the only one whose really pinged me at all but not enough to vote yet

DW has always lacked reads, especially good reads, at key points in the game.

Such as who?

Also u should reread my ISO because I’m p clearly one of them, as I already said why ddl is scum before you talked about his opportunistic vote

Datisi and alim mostly.

I’m looking back on your ddl stuff now.

I meant alex not alim sorry

DDL’s jump from GL to texcat looked even more like bored town to me. like it’s bad but it just doesn’t appear to come from a scum perspective imo

I meant alex not alim sorry

DDL’s jump from GL to texcat looked even more like bored town to me. like it’s bad but it just doesn’t appear to come from a scum perspective imo

And by Alex I mean Aaron, jesus christ I need sleep

DW mentions alim a LOT (like this slip up here) but it’s very rarely to comment on their alignment.

@alimdia, I missed it but I also don’t think it was ever relevant. You accused SS of posting neutral fluff but I don’t think my posts compare. Low output yes but I haven’t been neutral. I don’t scumread SS at all fwiw.

My unease about menal isn’t strong but it’s there, like I’m a little skittish about how widely townread he is over something that I found NAI and I think it’s been easy for him to coast on it. I joined his wagon but I don’t like it in retrospect. It does feel like a scum-driven wagon unlike the GL wagon.

I’m much happier here. VOTE: GL

I’m also remaining pretty adamant that this is Creature’s scum game, maybe I’m using old meta but I just disagree with amrun and texcat on him looking town.

I think this quote out of order but this is negative utility of Menal is a scum buddy. There’s a lot of other posts too, didn’t quite them all, that make me think DW/Menal is NOT a team.

VOTE: menal
your ddl push is gross and your GL push is gross

Such as this one.

I'll lynch anyone below the line today.

Amun
DDL

Icon

Aaron

alimda

GL

____

menal

texcat
ss

datisi

Colors added by me. I would expect one scum above the line and one below, but possibly all above line for a “safe” player, which DW strikes me as.

Indicates datisi/dw/alimdia team, or icon/dw/alimdia team.

I feel like my SRs are more process of elimination at this point, not so much that those slots have done anything overtly scummy.

{

GL, Amrun,

Icon, Menalque}
{Datisi, Alim}
{

SS, Gamma

}

Would expect one scum in top tier and one in middle. Indicates icon/alimdia/dw as most likely combo here IMO.

But I don’t really have a problem with a datisi/S_S scumteam anyway.

Would scum need to bus at this point? I think Datisi leading this wagon looks very town.

I didn’t like this post but it might be because I considered myself to be leading this wagon. Idk. This was in supposition of a S_S scumflip which scum DW would have known was not going to happen - was this an opening to pivot onto DW later? She was espousing a TR of me at this time so it would have been weirder to pivot to me.

my main townread is alim

Can you talk about this? I don't really see how.

This is the most she’s really said about anyone’s alignment recently. Also then she says she’s TR alim not much later.

Ohhhhhhh

Yeh that makes much more sense

What’s the scum team, gun to your head?

If Icon is town and truly not gambiting then it makes more sense for gamma to be gun than for anyone else to be lying. So, gun to head, I'd say menal/amrun/dats but there was like 15 pages created while I was asleep so I need to go back through.

If Icon isn't gun then I'm scared that I'm not reevaluating him properly in light of that. I don't see menal/icon though.

Dats/menal doesn't seem that bad to me because if dats were scum and menal were town I think we'd have a NK'd menal by now. And I don't think they're both town for almost certain.

Tr'ing alim so by poe that leaves amrun. I could see some menal/amrun distancing in recent pages.

I dunno, this is a fucking mess. I'm going to ISO icon today and see if he fits moreso than amrun.

This is like the first time she mentioned Icon this specifically. This is also the closest she’s gotten to attempting to solve and it’s so open ended.


Conclusion: DogWatch is almost definitely scum here, and pretty sure any DW scumteam would include alim. However, I forgot some interactions with Menalque that make a DW/Menalque team very unlikely.

Interesting.

[Amrun]

Alim, why the skitty reaction to my choochoo?

I don't even know what skitty means... wiki and google doesn't tell me anything.
But my reaction was mainly at Creature, using the same choochoo as you, who still hasn't explained his AF 'scumread'.

ok

Salim or Alim, the first one of you to give us the name of your partner will be allowed to live into LYLO, at which point you shall be lynched. We apologize for having to put you through this process, but at least you can live a couple more days. After all, it's not our fault you rolled scum.

Speak

My partner is Datisi. Please let me live oh God. I can't take the guilt anymore!

Needs to be included for posterity.

VOTE: AaronFrost

Can we wagon someone?

VOTE: Samelance

Salimance and alidya are both scum

Now need a third

VOTE: AaronFrost

Creature, what was this? Did you have a legit scumread on AF (which I don't see how) or were you just trying to get a wagon going?

I had a somewhat legit scumread on AF and probably still have

This entire sequence of posts is gross and inconsistent.

If you're scumreading me right now then why didn't you mention me in 176? What's your reason for scumreading me?

btw @Mod, I am not voting Icon atm, pretty sure my vote is on Creature
Exactly, thats why I did the choo choo thing @Amrun

however, I agree with Mena's #235 and 236, could you go on creature instead?

I'm always slow to vote beyond rvs, just a really slow starter in general

Tbh I don't have any major scumleans at the moment, creature is the only one whose really pinged me at all but not enough to vote yet

This post strikes me as scummy for not wanting to commit

DogWatch also has the same issue, but less obvious because they have less posts!

These posts kind of pull DogWatch out of obscurity but I need to see when sally and I started the DW wagon on day 1 which IIRC alim never votes on. Either way for this gamestate, negative buddy points.

Im uneasy about meanlque.

Why? You joined the wagon?

Thats all for tonight, had to catch up all my games, I will investigate the rapid Amrun wagon and its equally rapid collapse, along with the people in the wagon.

In the meantime, this is reminding me of another game where nobody ever follows my pushes.

UNVOTE:

Note: she was NOT voting dw here but still did not vote here even though the strongest SR she should have at this stage per her posting would be DW.

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

tbh same argument could be made for GL.

I agree with Salamence that DW is very opportunstic, but there are others also as opportunstic. They just post less so you don't notice.

Some examples I can point out right now is:
Creature: Read his ISO. Self explanatory
Texcat: He avoids the Amrun wagon but hops on the GL one. Then he shades me using what GL says in post #500.
As you mentioned, DW is also very opportunistic

This post is super weird. At this point, sally and I are going for DW, and alim is basically saying “yeah it’s scummy and I have been calling it scummy, but x y and z (all of whom are town) are just as scummy.” Definitely + buddy points

Almida whats it going to take to get you on creature?

if creature is on L1, and deadline is <12 hours away.

Creature is v similar to textcat, DDR and DW. Idk how he got pushed over them.

Do you townread creature or is it more “I dont vote lurkers”

I'm actually happy to push lurkers out because if they're scum free win, if they're town then I don't want them in lylo too.
But this game has a couple of vigs at least to take the lurkers out.

GL just seems more dodgy, with my recent posts explaining why.

Is she happy to vote lurkers? Because she seems hesitant on DogWatch, and he ignored the others in this list too.

It sounds like if we lynch amrun and they flip town, then the people on both wagons are very likely to be at least 2 scum.

However, if we lynch amrun and they flip scum, then the people in both are unlikely to be scum, or at least only one.

Finally, I think the town gun should claim if they are a Night 1 or Night 2 gun. It's basically a innocent child if nobody CC's

Other than this, I think pushing DW, texcat or GL is the way to go today.

Consistently has DW in her PoE.

Sorry also the first 2 sentences are basically saying that by lynching Amrun, we can figure out more info about who was on the wagon.

I think others have discussed that in the last 2 pages.

What’s your read on me, alimdia?

I think the case on you day 1 was pretty shet tbh. Your actual alignment is clouded because of that since you'd have defended the same way town or scum.
However there were 2 main wagons on day 1, and the other one flipped town.

Me lynching you would only ever be for complete vote analysis.

VOTE: Dogwatch
I'm also done with texcat (or if it happens.. .GL)

This is the FIRST time she voted DW, when DW not remotely in danger.

@ Datisi now that DDL flipped town can u explain how this affects ur Mena DDL theory (even tho u said it was not much confidence in it)?
Is mena more or less town now.

One of the first addresses to Datisi and a bit of an odd question.

Realllly dislike the GL case. Dislike to the point where I think this is the game we catch scum!Menal.

Icon is simultaneously shading and agreeing with Menal at points at his ISO.

between 691 and 702 amrun did not post

you had a townread on her

but then you say she hasn't been playing her towngame

Whattup with that, Doc?

DDL not responding in a townie way to a tunnel is like the best scumcase i've seen this game, and I don't have anything better despite *really* looking into this game.

I feel like alim is saying icon is scum here but she never actually says that. And it’s never brought up again.

Again, what is the benefit to them claiming now (so scum definitely finds out who they are and gets a guaranteed kill) vs having them claim at L-1 if needed

Any scum at L1 would also claim gun then, can they be trusted at this point?
If they're one of the scum looking people they should claim now. If they are in no danger of being wagoned, then sure, keep quiet.
But I much prefer if its one of the scummy looking people that claims now so we either get a 1v1 or we stop a mislynch earlier.

Who exactly are the scum looking people? Claiming it at L-1 still stops a mislynch and if scum were to claim gun then the real gun would CC and we’d either lynch scum or have a guaranteed scum lynch tomorrow

Whats the benefit to having a 1v1 now esp when that’s likely to draw focus away from sorting other slots

scum looking people to me = DW, (Datisi OR SS), Gamma Emerald (texcat's spot), maybe GL

I would expect only one scum in this list. +buddy for Ico

S_S, reasons for alimdia TR? I'm kinda forgetting that slot exists honestly, and I almost find it a bit weird you've got a TR on them while you don't remember anything I've done?

wasn't I in ur town list in post 1568? (and 1912)

hm......

yes you were
and then you dissapeared for a while

I never reappeared between 1568(or 1572) and 1912.....

VOTE: Datisi

Random datisi vote with no progression. Can’t decide what it means.

I gave readlist already.

But now I adjusted it cos I reread what the context after Datisi explained and its correct.

Scum reads:
Dogwatch

SS
Gamma Emerald
GuiltyLion

Color added by me. She could have excluded scum from this list entirely but it’s notable that DW is still on the list despite being 100% ignored by alim for a long time.

My preferred lynch list today is:

{Texcat slot; s_s; datisi; alimdia}

In ascending order of preference.

I would require some convincing to lynch outside of this list; how much depends on which slot.

VOTE: gamma

Why I am in there by the way?

Also, I'm having very big difficulty comprehending that there isnt at least 1 scum out of the 3 main wagons on Day 1.

You’re lowest because you’re my least confident. I just don’t feel great about anything you’ve put forward in the game.

Also, yes, probably at least one scum on those wagons but I’m going off my scumreads for now.

so shouldnt GL be in there from your POV? hm...

No - why? He’s one of my stronger townreads at this point.

What I was saying was that theres 3 main wagons on day 1 , if I remember correctly

Amrun
GL
Creature

There was also a wagon attempt on Aaronfrost but they flipped town.

So what I'm saying is one of the big wagons on Day 1 has to be scum, otherwise Mena is likely scum.

If you're town, you have to be POE'ing GL as scum, otherwise Mena. The fact that you're not... and instead have Datisi and I in your lynchlist just shot you up the scumlist for me.

I have never liked this post or this whole concept of forcing a 1v1 vs me and Menalque.

I know I am town so I don’t see the scum utility in trying to do this to a scum buddy since I’d likely to flip first and be town. Negative buddy points for Menalque

honestly I wanted to vote GA for ages but I was scared that people would be like 'zomg 3rd vote on someone'

Image conscious

extremely sceptical that scum didn't bother to kill of either (menal/datisi), which are prime targets for scum (to target) imo

explain this

please explain in what universe am i a prime NK target after that Day 3

i consider the both of you to be high on a scum kill list; menal above you

if we look at town lynch record, it's pretty blatant just terrible, which means most town are on the wrong track (or scum are leading town)

scum (which probably also took at least 1 extra gun?), had to kill off players. They didn't select either player who i'd consider high priority targets

That doesn't answer my question, why *are* we the prime NK targets? imo GL was THE prime NK target last night and lo and behold he's dead

Also if you think Amrun is Town then scum would be even more braindead to kill me because Amrun is suspecting me and they need just one wrong vote

try again

pedit: well i am not standing there so

Wait why is GL the prime NK target last night? I'm not seeing this.

That being said I do have theories of why theres so little kills so far, but will wait for claiming time

What are these theories?

Just me trying to ask why Icon is getting TR by Amrun. The second part is just me saying Icon town read me (ez =easy)

Another example of trying to get TR I mentioned earlier. (Yes it’s jokey - but it’s used in place of content in this day phase several times)

day 1
amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi,

Iconeum

,

AaronFrost

, Dogwatch,

GuiltyLion

,

Creature

GuiltyLion

[6] - texcat, Amrun,

AaronFrost, Salamence20

, Dogwatch,

alimdia

Creature

[8] -

Salamence20, GuiltyLion

, Datisi, Amrun,

AaronFrost

, Dogwatch,

Iconeum

,

alimdia

[LYNCH]


day 2
DrDolittle [6] - Datisi,

GuiltyLion

, Dogwatch, Amrun, Menalque,

AaronFrost

[LYNCH]


day 3
Something_Smart [5] - Datisi,

GuiltyLion

, Amrun, Menalque,

Iconeum

[LYNCH]

I had a post from before about Amrun's weird about turn. Yesterday I said from Amrun's POV mena has to be scum (or SS)
He disagrees heaps.
Then after SS flips he does a 180 and says Mena scummy but not really, then settles on Datisi.
Then says I'm scummy for SRing him cos of that.
Doesnt seem like town train of thought.

Mena scum means Amrun is town though

Including for posterity.

So either
Mena, DW, Gamma

or

Amrun, Datisi, Gamma

Where is the DW scumread gone? Why is gamma now the one in all her solves? But DW isn’t? There is NO profession here. Why has she not been pushing DW all phase?

Also if solving again like....
DW or GA whoevers not gun

Amrun/Mena and Datisi ig? I needa reread Icon. My brain still thinks hes conftown when he went last in claim and nobody claimed gun, I needa fix that.

This is a weird post and I don’t think this is a real problem town has. It reads like an excuse.

@Amrun what do you think about my statement on the last day and today that one of you/Mena must be scum?

Still trying to push Mena vs Amrun and I still don’t like it.


Conclusion: there are a few things off in the beginning about dw/alim potential scumteam, but the weird half-defense when dw was actually being wagoned and the TOTAL loss of a seemingly very strong DW scumread is baffling to me. It makes alim’s reads look very ingenuine in hindsight and even if DW isn’t scum, alim still is.

However, again, I think alim/Menalque is an unlikely scumteam. That means Menalque is probably just town.

[Amrun]

Mena just admitted that he will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment tho
So I personally think Mena is null for that statement

I meant to include this. This is also negative buddy points for Mena.

[alimdia]

I feel like you went through my ISO deciding I was already scum and is just massively shading me. I'll get on a rebuttal when I get home because some of these points are just trash lmao.

[Bingle]

Is that town/scum indicative? Why?

Like, tbh, idgaf if she's shading you. I care about whether she's town or not. Defense is <<<< offense here, imo.

[Amrun]

I was trying to find some variation of "he said what we were all thinking" or "he's brave for telling the truth" in gif form but i didn't find anything good in the 3 minutes i was searching

9 roses, not what I expected.

VOTE: Aaron

i was promised a bloodbath, instead i've got a hottub full of roses? what is this?

Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

There's 3 scum tho

Only scum would notice such a glaring omission

VOTE: Datisi

Not really? But Menal might have townslipped there

Oh, wtf. It’s Salamence. Neat.

SS, I’m getting scum vibes from you. I don’t think I’m right by any means, but I feel we’re about to be on different sides of the shift. (Not alignment wise, gamestate wise) However, it could be leftover from the last Guns/Roses.

I for one

love

bad puns. You gotta go for the bad ones to test the audience. Sometimes ya hit, sometimes ya miss.

I don't like this post. Don't understand the need for this callout, especially if you say it's not AI?

Looking for a town slip on a stronger player like Menal is +town

VOTE: datisi

If I was committed to pushing/shading you on that, I would go for it and push you for it. As it stands, I unvoted already.

I think I might have missed a post here, but he calls Datisi out for the datisi/menal townslip early game thing. Negative buddy points for Datisi.

Alim, why the skitty reaction to my choochoo?

ok

Salim or Alim, the first one of you to give us the name of your partner will be allowed to live into LYLO, at which point you shall be lynched. We apologize for having to put you through this process, but at least you can live a couple more days. After all, it's not our fault you rolled scum.

Speak

Now, Icon says alim’s early game was so towny, but these are the only real things he said about alim DURING early game.

Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet

Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today

But I know ur worried about the fact that Datisi is

not quite

in her town meta as she usually is when town

And also, Amrun should always be the lynch today.

If we lynch anyone else, it won't even matter what they flip, Amrun is still gonna be hot tomorrow. Better off lynching today and working from there (with wagon information from today). I know a bunch of players who are gonna look pretty ropey if Amrun flips red.

It's just the best lynch.

need more votes on amrun

I know youre going to tell me its more about the other stuff he says but I don't see much of a difference between these two posts. Iconeum wants Amrun dead because hes scum apparently, and hasn't done anything since being asked by Menal to do so. Why is he doing it? Probably because he can get away with it in this game?

Instead of non-stop shading, can you like engage with me over stuff?

740 for starters - your words don't make sense with your actual 'reads'

Very weird post about Datisi that subsequently gets discussed a lot.

Salamance, ur not trying to sort me. You have been shading me all game, been calling for a vig shot on me, while also calling my play noob (why do you want a noob play vig'd?) and coasting. Which one is it?

If you are actually scumreading me, then push me. If you think i'm town playing bad/noob/whatever, then you shouldn't have asked for a vig shot on me.

Now we start into the Salamence20 push that I originally TR Ico for.

I know this is a reactionary play from me, but it doesn't mean i'm wrong about it.

This is image conscious, but a push on sally here is the opposite of image driven.

I did say 'was', and it was in reference to the current ones which I see no particular good reason for me to hop on

And no I just posted that to shade you for no good reason. /

I think what I wrote right there. It feels like ur not quite your town self, perhaps going with the flow some more rather then steering the raft.
If I thought anything major of it, i'd be all over your ass don't you worry.

These constant weird posts on Datisi I will never understand no matter Ico’s alignment. It’s like such an obvious associative tell that it probably just isn’t. Negative buddy points for Datisi.

And sure, I know I'm not hard in my Town meta of spamposting and yelling at everyone

why aren't you tho?

More of the same.

Salascum Case (OMGUS Edition 2019):

Opens by questioning my slot in 179, calling me a scum candidate because I'm supposedly ignorant in my 149. Scumread because of ignorance is mehhhh at the very best, and a scumpush most of the time.

When I question him on the fact that he didn't try to push or sort his scumread in AF, he calls it an 'opportunistic' push. It's all very weak and shady.

He doesn't try to engage with me. He doesn't try to sort me.

Also says i'm likely to be scum with Amrun, the 1 slot i've actually efforted in trying to get lynched this game.

498 is more shading of my slot, without ever trying to confront me.

Then in 736, he wants me to be vigged. Ever since the start of the game, he's been on my ass for being ignorant. As time went by he tried to add to his supposed case on me, never coming up with anything actually pushable.

In 737 his reasons for wanting me vigged are:

-noob play (nothing to do with being scum or not)
-coasting (misrep) - I mean you can't honestly Judge a slot on coasting based on LAST POST?

THAT'S IT. All the reasons he can come up with are either Town!AI, or NAI. Add a misrep. No effort in actually trying to engage or sort.

If this isn't a scum trying to get rid of me, I don't know what is.

The Salamence20 case for posterity.

I mean you have a very, ehm, forthcoming? way of playing town. It really stands out. And I'm not seeing that here, yet. That's exactly what I was trying to see how Menal feels about it (him having a ton of experience with you as well).

Yeah, in most cases I do. But it's tiring, and sometimes I do want to take a back seat for a bit.

And both the timing and the phrasing of the remark felt insincere to me. Plus, you've much more experience with town!me than he does, and you've seen me play this way as Town and get mislynched before.

Ur extremely defensive for a very minor thing I said

More weird Datisi posts.

Salamence you've done nothing but take cheap shots at me all game, and been treating me incredibly unfair. If ur town I see absolutely no reason for you not to try and sort me properly instead of these under-the-belt takes you are having.

If ur scum, by all means keep going. Better kill me tonight then tho.

getting tunnely like you did here

oh i'm about to get extremely tunnely in this game alright

So that means I feel youre gamethrowing by voting someone who isnt getting lynched in 27 hours

i'm hoping this gets proven wrong in the next 12 hours

More sally aggression.

much better off lynching Flavor or Salam or Amrun

All town, for note.

That’s a shitty lynch

i think all three of DDL/Creature/GL lynches are bad

Also all town, interesting enough. Not a lot of scum motivation for this post.

caught up on D2

Menal and SS feel most genuine to me

DDL v Amrun is what I'm gonna look into next

also i'm not particularly fond of Datisi posting this game

yoink

Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre

She's not of the fencesitting type and this post is yuck

More weird Datisi shit. No mention of alim townread, or any DW read.

Yeah i'm just gonna say it out loud i don't care about fallout here, really

Datisi, you think my 'shading' of you was bad, but you questioned my motivation for Amrun, and didn't follow up on it. You think DDL is scummy I guess, and you think he's potentially theatring with Menal of all players? How can you honestly be trying to sort DDL if ur not saying Amrun in the same sentence?

Instead you go with the shading/fencesitty type of approach on what I think is one of the towniest slots in the game (Menal).

I don't like it.

More weird Datisi shit, menal TR

what I also think is weird having reflected on it more is DDL townreading Menalque, like, this dude was calling you scum all D1 and trying to get you lynched and you aren't suspicious of him in the slightest? really? I suggest I might switch to DDL and he decides to call me out while making no mention of Menalque?

I legit lol’d when I read this. So I just went and ISO’d DDL again and menal doesn’t even make an appearance in the entire ISO with the exception of one offhand comment that DDL likes him. It does seem extremely unrealistic to barely mention someone who’s been calling for your blood like two game days straight.

I like this. It's indeed completely unnatural for town to stay that quiet about a slot pushing you this way. Reminds a lot about myself as scum who tries to ignore rather then engage.

VOTE: DDL

thanks for calling out

L-1

Intent I suppose

Basically the only interaction with DW all game.

I want to do dog watch. I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not

Yes sure do dogwatch

It's more math. I had this list, i think if amrun is scum, then SS or dogwatch are partners. Then through the exchange I ruled out SS amrun partners, so that leaves DW. But DW is independently scummy too

why is DW scum?

Soft defense of DW.

between 691 and 702 amrun did not post

you had a townread on her

but then you say she hasn't been playing her towngame

Whattup with that, Doc?

like this progression is clear evidence of reevaluation idk what more is there to it

you were townreading amrun

nothing happened

then you started scumreading amrun

that's not simply revalution

that's you townreading based off of something, but then scumreading that player for the *same* reasons

In hindsight, I may have been pocketed here.

i'm gonna have to shotgun reads for now

i'm mostly caught up actually

my main townread is alim

if i had a gun right now i'd be shooting gamma

extremely sceptical that scum didn't bother to kill of either (menal/datisi), which are prime targets for scum (to target) imo

amrun is likely town, my reasoning being I feel extremely confident that scum would want a lynch on me today, and amrun has not been setting that up, at all

And now, first mention of alim town EVER in Icon’s ISO.

gamma - DW - Amrun - mena - datisi - Amrun - Ico

And DW is somehow next?! For why?!

Menl is openwolfing here wtf

And then wut

yeah i'm definitely townreading alim

reads very much like sorting the game, is confident about the upcoming claim, has been to the point, and having the whole game in mind

is anybody scumreading alim?

I pushed a Ico on the alim TR which I didn’t track. He said he’d towncase him later but never did, actually declined when I asked.

I do not understand these alimdia townreads

i'm fully willing to towncase alim AFTER we have a claimed gun

Except then he said no.

Icon
If your solve is DW/mena/gamma

That means me/you/amrun/alim town
WHO IS THE FUCKING GUN

holy shit

fml

It did take him too long to “realize” gamma was gun. I was telling him and it was fairly obvious.

Also his solves really didn’t follow with his reads from the rest of the game. Re-evaluating is ok (and expected) but I don’t like almost total lack of mention of DW except as a compromise lynch here.

I really don't think that scum!mena is interested in treating my slot as 'could be town' after our engagement

He had the position to hard-scumread me back then and nobody would blink about it, but he didn't

And if most or all of the flipped town had Amrun as top scum, they are all shouting at us from the grave rn. At least it will be a shared defeat then if it comes to that. Still barring my checkup tomorrow wrt to the other flipped town, but scum!mena also has nothing to gain by pointing us towards dead town players reads, unless he thinks that wins him his final mislynch, which means EVERY SINGLE TOWN WAS WRONG, and scum just win at that point

Ok

Icon turned up and shitpushed me (and you, which is making me think you have negative partner equity)

menal

why would I come into today pushing you if the scumteam has gamma singled out as the mislynch?

I pushed you prior to massclaim

Interesting post.


Conclusion:

I still think there wasn’t much scum benefit to pushing sally the way Icon did. However, in read it again, sally was such a little fuckhead that scum Icon may not have cared and the genuineness I read honestly could have come from scum.

Ico/Datisi seems an almost impossible team, and Ico/menal fairly unlikely, but Ico/dw/alim is really viable.

My heart still wants to TR Ico though :c

[Amrun]

I feel like you went through my ISO deciding I was already scum and is just massively shading me. I'll get on a rebuttal when I get home because some of these points are just trash lmao.

I didn’t though. And I forgot how you did call out some DogWatch things early and some other stuff that I did like.

I’m going through everyone’s ISO, not just yours, to look for possible associatives. I’ll decide best team when I’m totally done.

I surprised myself - kinda reversed my read on menal by doing this.

[alimdia]

I point out sus shet ye, I think day 3 and after I got hella lazy and demotivated though.

[Bingle]

I'm not going back to read anything, but if you want to link cases I'll look at them.

[Amrun]

I keep fallsinf asleep. Trying so hard but don’t think I’ll make it.

Calling it now the scum team is literally datisi, SS

There's 3 scum tho

This spurned a whole big thing that probably means menal/Datisi aren’t scum together but it’s not as strong as the others.

Also mathematically speaking Icon's scum here 60% of the time

and his recent posts make me think it's >60% so
VOTE: Icon

There are LOTS of posts about this pissing match between Ico. Almost definitely not a team with Ico.

I guess I would then clarify that it's jokingly correcting Mena but then not doing anything else that I find scummy, not the act of correcting itself

Err, what else was I supposed to do? Or are you referring to me being absent from the thread in general?

I think it's fundamentally just that I disagree with you that Menalque is likely to be thinking "3 is the correct number but I'm going to joke that it's only 2 people are scum". I thought it was town-indicative if not a straight townslip and I felt some kinda recognition that it was +town-indicative was missing from how you replied to him.

What's your read on Menalque now?

Hm. I guess it's agree to disagree since I think that (1) town!Mena would definitely know how many scum there are and (2) scum!Mena's got enough of a brain to fake a ~townslip~ like that.

He's a Townlean. Other than general ~tone~, 116 and 117 make me think that was because (1) I think I'd be someone scum!him would try to pocket so idk if he'd post 116, and if he was using it as basis for puching me later then I doubt he'd be BoP-ing himself wth 117 (since it is true).

Kinda weird Mena post.

I mean you have a very, ehm, forthcoming? way of playing town. It really stands out. And I'm not seeing that here, yet. That's exactly what I was trying to see how Menal feels about it (him having a ton of experience with you as well).

Yeah, in most cases I do. But it's tiring, and sometimes I do want to take a back seat for a bit.

And both the timing and the phrasing of the remark felt insincere to me. Plus, you've much more experience with town!me than he does, and you've seen me play this way as Town and get mislynched before.

Agreeing you’re not playing to your town meta is pretty meh.

Hmm, I was waiting for you to ask that. Not much.

I don’t love this answer btw datisi

The dude's done p much nothing other than toot his own horn, call me scum and hunt for my ~buddies~. I'm not devastated he's dead.

This was about Pret. Shows Datisi was pretty aware of what kills would be optimal for her. I noted on day 2 that the night one kills look worst on Datisi.

yoink

Also, both of them are in my Town pile independently, but I have a 9000IQ tinfoil theory of the whole Mena/DDL push being SvS theatre

This push was a thing that was pretty tinfoil. This is slightly more compelling reasons why Mena/Datisi aren’t a town. There’s really no reason for scum Datisi to push this knowing DDL will flip town. This would be extravagant scum theatre. If any pair is capable of that, it’s these two, but I kinda feel it would have had a lot more fireworks if it was theatre.

TRs: {

GL

, Icon,

S_S,

alimdia}
TRs but what was that push: {Mena,

DDL

}
PoE: {

Aaron

, DW,

Tex, Amrun}

This is where I am ftr

And I think I called you Town once, which was after the first wagon on you that I felt emerged for BS reasons.

Colored by me. If scum would expect one buddy up top and one below. So that would be alimdia/DW

I want to do dog watch. I think dog watch is scum if amrun is and is fairly likely scum if amrun is not

Why is DW all of a sudden a stronger (?) SR for you rather thsn Amrun?

Eek, +buddy for DW

I am sorta getting paranoid that Icon's "only now" looking back at DDL when there's a serious wagon on

but knowing my ability to read him that probably means he's Town
probably

Just didn’t like this post.

Mena, I don't think you've ever answered, what made you think DDL was the scummiest slot in the game, and how is his disengagement here changing that?

this is talking about my ddl push D1, correct?

yes, your D1 DDL """push""", and immediate dropping of said push for you being alive even tho 50% of the people voting DDL ended up dead

and also DDL barely mentioning you and having this sorta weird TR on you throughout the game that he handwaves as "townies are wrong"

and now you stopping his lynch again

well yeah exactly, I never really got the chance to push it D1 and when I did people stayed glued onto creature despite the reasons for SRing him being bad

also I don't think I dropped it today, I just said I wanted to reconsider? why is me saying I want to reconsider scum!indicative? esp when I was the strongest advocate for a ddl Lynch and the easiest way to control whether you're getting pushed or not is using the nk as scum to remove people who are likely to be problematic for you and ddl had plenty of reasons to believe I'd be problematic for him today (as in he didn't have good reasons to think I would consider my not being dead in this way)

I haven't got to that point yet but are you not also TRing me? so why is ddl TRing me weird? do you think he should be omgusing regardless of alignment?

also tbh if he is scum at this point then him continuing to TR me makes sense because somehow this "mena is bussing ddl" theory has gained traction

which also doesn't make sense because how are you reconciling my constant anti-bus position with me deciding to bus on D1?

and I'm pausing his lynch because I'd ideally like him to answer my questions without anyone being able to lolhammer, I'm only stopping it if his answers are enough to persuade me he's not scum

Where? You made an actual case on Amrun. All you did wrt to DDL was ask people to vote and make some arguements about inactivity or whatever. Like when you get the time I'd like you to kinda go a bit more in depth there and wrt your Creature TR

okay cool you wanted to reconsider but the only person who gave you any consideration for voting DDL ended up dead and you don't comment on that part at all, like if there was absolutely nobody listening to you except for that 1 person then removing that one person could do a very good job of stopping the wagon and I found it really weird you didn't even seem to consider that?

I'm TRing you yes, but it's shaky, and I'm very not sold on it yet. DDL TRing you wouldn't be as weird if he tried to actually engage with you about your SR on him and maybe try to get you to untunnel or anything? Like don't Townies getting pushed by someone they TR like try to interact with that slot? Instead he gives it p much zero thought and keeps TRing you regardless because "not in danger of getting lynched" or whatever

And I called it "theatre". In scum!Mena and scum!DDL world, that wasn't bussing. The way you "pushed" him, then dropped it gave a vibe of you not wanting to lynch him in the first place.

Yeah prob not buddies, Datisi would have committed here

S_S, reasons for alimdia TR? I'm kinda forgetting that slot exists honestly, and I almost find it a bit weird you've got a TR on them while you don't remember anything I've done?

Can’t decide what to make of this alimdia post.

gun to head, pending rereads:
{

GL

, Icon, Mena}
{DW, alimdia}
{

Amrun, S_S

}
{

GE

}

Colored by me. Idk if she’d put both buddies in the middle like that.

Can we not bring people to L-1 with this little discussion in possible MyLo

This post was also pretty tinfoil. More to come on Datisi unless I crash out zzz

[Amrun]

I'm not going back to read anything, but if you want to link cases I'll look at them.

Please read the quotes I’m posting. You can disagree with my conclusions on them but I’m on purpose quoting some extra things to give you a little context, aware you haven’t read.

[Amrun]

Menal scum we lose?
Bullshit

No i think it's actually very very likely
Not because Mena is a god-tier scumlord but because of something else

Whats your read on me Icon?

Active sorting

What's the case on DW?

Ugh I'm kinda doubtful of scum!DW bc of GL's reads

Might have to recheck that

+buddy for DW

Especially if it’s gamma/Datisi which I see as pretty likely.

Please elaborate.

ok i skimmed Amrun's iso with ctrl+f "tex" and I went over texcat's iso
they don't really look aligned unless they were specifically going for bussing with given how much presence tex has I doubt it

so the team is either something like Amrun/Icon/DW? or Amrun is Town
i still don't want to believe Gamma's play comes from Town atp but would that then mean Mena's scum? unless the other proposed team of Icon/DW/Gamma

in other words i've no fucking clue anymore

remind me to yell at myself post game for diverting from Gamma

i think i'm off to sleep for a bit

ok i skimmed Amrun's iso with ctrl+f "tex" and I went over texcat's iso
they don't really look aligned unless they were specifically going for bussing with given how much presence tex has I doubt it

so the team is either something like Amrun/Icon/DW? or Amrun is Town
i still don't want to believe Gamma's play comes from Town atp but would that then mean Mena's scum? unless the other proposed team of Icon/DW/Gamma

in other words i've no fucking clue anymore

remind me to yell at myself post game for diverting from Gamma

i think i'm off to sleep for a bit

i think this is still here
one of {Amrun, Gamma}
maybe one of {Amrun, Mena} but that would either mean Gamma is actually Town which is ??? or I'm misreading both Amrun and Mena which is also ??? OR the team is exactly Icon/DW/Gamma which i also don't think?

I was gonna say {Icon, Amrun} share alignment but I went over your iso a bit earlier and you were calling for Amrun lynch quite a bit before? so i'm a tad confused rn

in conclusion
yes

ok so fmpov: icon is town, and i'm assuming everyone's TR of alimdia isn't wrong
means 3 scum in [Gamma, Amrun, Mena, DW]

Amrun and Mena aren't scum together - if they are i'll be very shook
and I don't think Amrun and Gamma can be scum together either unless Amrun was doing a weird ass bus the whole game on a teammate that wasn't that active?

which would leave exactly Gamma/Mena/DW - i haven't checked this wrt wagons tho

alim, one of your teams includes both Amrun and Gamma, you think they can be scum together? also how do you come to exactly those two solves?

Just a collection of posting today I felt was very genuine and solvey. I might have a little “real time bias.”

because i thought no way in fucking hell iconeum chooses rose

HOWEVER, i thought this same thing about Menalque

so now we're in a pickle

I thought this same thing.

ok so if gun!gamma
i'm standing by my alimdia TR i guess
i'm not
icon isn't?

then the PoE is Mena/Amrun/DW

but mena and amrun can't be together unless mena purposefully completely broke his scum meta

so i'm wrong one of icon/alimdia and on one of mena/amrun

fuck me fuck this game

pedit: holy shit yall posting a ton
tbh DW appears in like every? possible team fmpov
ugh

Some weird shit about alim though, like why assume “eceryone’s” TR is right at endgame? Idgi

Icon
If your solve is DW/mena/gamma

That means me/you/amrun/alim town
WHO IS THE FUCKING GUN

This came off genuine.

Conclusion:

Datisi can only be scum with alim/DW.

So I basically probably have to decide between Ico and Datisi. Ico I tr most the game, and Datisi I SR most the game. And now I think I’ve reversed myself on them.



I think Menal will have to wait, I’m so tired.... I wanted to do VCA too, blah.

[Amrun]

I actually have mild scrumpings from her that she’s not posting more here

But like v mild and I’ve read her right in every game we’ve played together since our first so I’m p confident I’ll get a stronger read on her by end of D1

Re: Datisi

No, because I think datisi knows me well enough to know that I will have checked the number of scum regardless of alignment

This originally had given me town vibes, plus how he SR people using this excuse to TR him. Scum doesnt typically give up free towncred.

Never heard of icon before this game

Hmm, okay

The reason is that icon is generally v mislynch baity and so pushing him early tends to ping me if it’s from someone who knows him who should know that him being scummy doesn’t necessarily mean he’s scum

+buddy points

Aaron why icon and not creature?

+buddy points

Like you just called a whole series of creatures posts “gross and inconsistent” then voted a player who is often mislynched as town

Why is icon giving me towncred there worse than what you object to about creature’s posts?

+buddy points

I kinda wish you were posting more but you’re mostly a tonal read for me and I don’t think you’re coming across as if you’re having hysterics in a pt while conducting this conversation

Re: Datisi

So like I’m not properly caught up but at this point I think prob 2 scum in (amrun, sally, ddl)

Notable: all town

I don’t really see either of those two as scummy

I’m p sure I was mindmelding with icon at some point which is normally a good sign unless it’s someone like skitter who can fake town thought processes well enough that I’ve mindmelded with her when she’s been scum

And dogwatch reads as newb!town to me even if she’s not a true newb

I think her amrun vote is towny as she goes from agreeing with her to voting her and I think scum are normally more concerned about showing their progression whereas town just go with it when their reads change so they’re more flipfloppy

Also I think a couple of people have been calling her scum and she’s p much just ignored it which is +townpoints

+buddypointsndornicon and DW

I am ehh about the fact that icon and datisi have both disappeared since I said I was TR/TLing them

Notable but not sure what conclusion to draw.

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

I mean I'm widely TR bc I think I'm objectively the towniest slot in the game rn

I don't rly think anyone is town reading me for my "not a townslip" vs the fact that I'm actually solving and sorting people, how caught up are you at this point?

I don't think I am still "so adamant" about it and idk why you're characterising it like that when I've actively said that I'm bothered by the wagon speed, I just don't think that amrun is necessarily towny for having played townier since getting wagoned

plus my initial progression on amrun is p clear if you actually read my ISO

I

think my initial concerns over her alim vote and her Pret interactions were bad, but tbh Aaron looks scummier now and that's prob +townpoints for amrun

Later explicitly says he didn’t say this which is ????

Like I have a high confidence in getting to a correct read on datisi (ftr I’ve read here right every game we’ve had together since our first) and I don’t see scum her yet

Like maybe a little from the hesitance to be in thread but she’s still a tonal TL so I’m not willing to go there today

What is your read on Datisi now, Menal?

[Amrun]

menal weirdly defensive of an open question

I don’t think this is being defensive but ok

I'm

not so convinced scum was on that wagon tbh

. It was the amrun wagon that felt more scummy to me, not creature's.

Okay, why?

tex and menal ping me most currently. I don't know what to think about SS yet but he is a possibility. If there's any scum on creature's wagon, I'd lean towards Icon. I don't think DDL is scum fwiw.

Why am I pinging you

Why is tex pinging you

Why don’t you think DDL is scum?

What makes SS a possibility?

I have very briefly skimmed since talking to GL but I'm not caught up

icon is probably town

I need to interact with datisi more but I'm sticking with lean town there for now

I'm still mixed on GL but I think SS may have had a good point although if either of them is scum I think the other one has +scum equity

dogwatch is prob town

if ddl flips scum then bussing isn't a bad thing to look at but it is a terrible thing to look at re:me given the fact that I am an outspoken proponent of not bussing and on a more meta level: why do I choose to break that as scum rn when team mafia is coming up in all of 2 weeks or so

on the other hand, I don't think amrun is scum really

ddl scum is probably AFF scum too and is probably clearing for amrun as I think that's a scum push

haven't really read gamma since he repped in, can't remember the last time alim did anything

that's all I have time for tonight

I keep expecting S_S to explain that naked vote on me, but nope. Just hangin out for presumably no reason.


I strongly townread GL now, fwiw. On day 1 I could not follow his train of thought in a genuine way. D2, with the realization that he was comparing it so specifically to high noon, I do.

Menalque, why are you categorizing DogWatch as a lurker? I don’t.

because she has the lowest posts of everyone in the game aside from alim and tex/gamma!slot

I just checked and she had only 3 more posts than alim at the time that you posted this and he hasn't posted in 3 days so my question back to you is why don't you think that's lurky?

Spoiler:

Is there really no other reasoning you've kept your vote on GL, @texcat? Nothing else from him you find AI one way or the other?

VOTE: Creature

I don't wanna flip GL. I'm still okay going back to Amrun if possible, but I'm definitely not impressed by Creature so far either.

This is scum

Okay.

VOTE: Daitsi

The posts are saying a lot of nothing, they were the first on Amawesome, they immediately went to creature.

And they’re asking fluff questions and staying under the radar.

I used my heat seeking scum directed lance and it brought me to datisi.

Dogwatch
Iconeum
DrDolittle
alimdia
Texcat
AaronFrost

Probably in this list. Not exactly sure where.

Datish
Amrun
DrDolittle
AaronFrost

Pick one to lynch

Fire list, Creature. Fire list.

Join DDL.

I’d rather Datisi lynch, and that last post of them makes DDL-Datisi likely

Join on DDL, Creature.

If a couple more come on, we can transfer the wagon

pret being confident on datisi scum

also where tf is icon

Why gamma > SS, dw?

Partly to pressure that slot into providing some actual content, also because I'm really having a hard time understanding SS in this game. I REALLY don't get his Creature sheeping but I also read his 1v1 with Amrun as TvT, so my head is kinda spinning with his slot.

What was it about that exchange particularly that made you think it was TvT?

Ok I’m too tired to comment on every one. The basic gist is there is a soft defense of DW up in there but I don’t think DW and Menal are buddies due to other interactions, especially on DW’s part.

Conclusion:

I have talked myself into Menal being town. A menal scumteam would have to be like Datisi/menal/Ico and I just don’t buy that.

[Amrun]

Here’s my solve.

The scumteam is {DW, alim} and one of {Ico, Datisi}.

Right now I’d pick dw/alim/Ico


I want to do VCA but probably tomoreow

[Amrun]

I still don’t like Menals posting today but I think there was some OMGUS mixed in with being too confident on my Ico read so PoE pool was narrowed. I also really forgot how much I don’t think DW/Menal is a team from DW perspective.

[Iconeum]

I'm probably going to settle on voting Alim in a couple hours

[Iconeum]

scratch that, make it DW

[Iconeum]

DW is gonna be in most of my solves

[Iconeum]

like, i'm voting DW in a couple hours

change my mind or whatnot

[Iconeum]

VoteCount 1.3

Salamence20 [1] - DrDolittle
amrun [7] - Menalque, Datisi, Iconeum, AaronFrost, Dogwatch, GuiltyLion, Creature
Something_Smart [1] - alimdia
Dogwatch [1] - Salamence20
GuiltyLion [2] - texcat, Amrun

Not Voting [2]

- Something_Smart, Pretentious

With 14 alive it takes 8 votes to be chosen.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2019-12-11 13:35:31)

Ok, don’t have much time and posting on phone so forgive the lack of quotes. Also I haven’t read every single post yet.

Ever since GL and Creature jumped on fairly abruptly I’m a lot less sure about the wagon. Menalque continues to defend it even though it’s looking shakier by the moment.

Which brings me to this: why is menalque so widely town-read right now?

If it’s because of his “townslip” during RVS, that’s literally nothing. I’ve done something similar as scum and I’ve done it as town too with full intent both times. So I read nothing into that, purely NAI for me. I did not understand why that “slip” dominated the early discussion.

@menalque, what was your initial progression on amrun and why are still so adamant about it?

I don’t know who I’m scum reading right now. I thought amrun’s response to my vote was level headed and made sense. I don’t think my vote was particularly well reasoned. At the very least I don’t like her at L-1 right now.

UNVOTE: amrun

Leaning slightly scum on GL now, but I only skimmed his posts today so I need to go back through him. Creature I’m still leaning scum on slightly.

@amrun, you said earlier this looked like town!creature based on experience. Where are you now with him? I used to think he was easy to sort but I haven’t been here in years.

Ico's final solve

DW/amrum/alim

Menal pushed amrun very heavily, but it were town slots who deflated it at that time
This particular quote feels overly explained for an unvote, and seems like DW was happy to get off of the bus when it got to L-1 rather quickly
Amrun was hardcore townreading me and I think is now seeing that it can get me as a mislynch.
Alim comes into the team because I think Datisi and Menal are town.
If I'm wrong on Alim, then it's Datisi.

[Iconeum]

ignore the VC was doing research

[Datisi]

I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?

[Iconeum]

I think I'd prefer Amrun over DW actually? Icon, thoughts?

I think they are the most solid team

Also in how they were aproaching my slot today, both solidly super hard townreading my slot

And now when they both see I can be the lynch they are both progressing towards scumreading me

I don't see why I would lynch Amrun over DW tho?
Any suggestion?

[Iconeum]

Actually

Amrun is fine

That way I won't be shouted at by literally every town this game for ignoring their reads