Mini Normal 2130: Mafia From Home [Game Over]

[profii]

VOTE: Vote: Unabomba - terrorists are most definitely associated with the mafia

I did this exact rationale in the first game I played on this site.

I was town in that game, so you can have a town badge. Well done.


I do however, hard claim informed that there are no masons in this game. Soz

VOTE: Saudade

[profii]

To be fair I think that is probably the most effective way I've seen a game leave RVS

[profii]

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

[profii]

I believe profii. Easy Day 1.

UNVOTE: Looker
VOTE: Saudade

I've decided I'm going to town read this. It took some consideration

Can you explain your thought-process behind this?

Initially my knee jerk reaction was why would you town read me not Saudade, but then I figured that normally a claim -> counter claim scenario is typically L-1 on scum, scum make something up, counter claim conflicts it.

Also, if I was scum counter claiming and Saudade flips town mason, then I get lynched straight after, granted that would give scum a couple of night kills, but it means the game would just end up at 2v9 so it makes no sense for me as scum to do that.

[profii]

Saudade is a troll and claims mason at the start of every game

I was just fighting fire with fire to be perfectly honest

[profii]

This is a sensible vote

VOTE: Battle Mage

[profii]

This is a sensible vote

VOTE: Battle Mage

And this is what I mean by doing the bare minimum. Profii’s coasted for a while now without pushing anyone so it’s as if he thinks ‘i should probably do something to look busy’ so votes an already suspected player without giving any reasoning, then drops out again.

I’ve seen Profii as Town and scum, and this play is much similar to the latter.

just a reminder - you've seen me as a Mason where I could go full speed knowing if people scum read me I could just claim and get out of it, which is license to do as i please

[profii]

You made that excuse in the scum game as well, and it doesn’t cut it for me.

If you’re Town then please play ‘full speed’ so I can see it. If you’re scum then feel free to continue what you’re doing.

i'll play how I want

[profii]

I took a look at Profii's ISO in response to Luca and this caught my eye.

Also, if I was scum counter claiming and Saudade flips town mason, then I get lynched straight after, granted that would give scum a couple of night kills, but it means the game would just end up at 2v9 so it makes no sense for me as scum to do that.

Isn't this a bit overly self-concious? Going with the "If i was scum i would..." conjecture already?

no?

[profii]

Profii’s reason for holding back doesn’t wash, given he’s doing it not to be SR/lynched but knows I’m going to constantly push his lynch while he’s playing like this.

The reason he’s not going ‘full speed’ is because he’s unable to replicate his Town meta as scum. The difference between his Town and scum game is night and day and I called it correctly last time he was scum as well.

I'd much rather make the point that you saw my Mason meta not my generic town meta because I dont want you following me round every game insisting I post more

If I suddenly post more you'll be like "profii is just appeasing me to get my vote off"

I cant win... so I'll do as I please


One of the reasons I'm going a bit slow is the game is generally slow, plus there are a lot of players I'm not familiar with so, I dont have preconceived ideas on how to read people (a bit like you on me)

I've not seen your scum game so shrug... you could easily be copying your town meta by pressuring me, it's an easy act to replicate...

I could also say Norgey boy is probably a bit wary of me because I randomly scum caught him recently. I could further speculate he seems to be going for a bit more of a lol poster style to maybe make sure I think he is doing something different than normal so I dont scum read him.


The problem is, I've just thrown out 2 speculations on players voting me, because you are 2 guys I know better than the pack in general... so if I throw some scum reads your way, especially if they are based on unfounded musings of the first few pages... are you going to move your votes? I'd guess not... would that be assisting in lynching scum? Nope... so would I normally keep these thoughts to myself? Yep

[profii]

I could also say Norgey boy is probably a bit wary of me because I randomly scum caught him recently. I could further speculate he seems to be going for a bit more of a lol poster style to maybe make sure I think he is doing something different than normal so I dont scum read him.

Shading 101. Suggest i'm lol posting just to get townread. Or that i'm somehow afraid of you? Dude, in that game where you "caught me" you weren't even my biggest problem. Your case on me wasn't even good.

Interesting that you jump to calling it shade and not paranoia from a townie. But you did prove my point about why I usually dont openly say things like that... most people dont react well

[profii]

So are you saying you scumread me and/or Luca or not?

it's too early to really say anyone is scummy imo

[profii]

So are you saying you scumread me and/or Luca or not?

it's too early to really say anyone is scummy imo

That’s rubbish and you know it.

How about you explain your Mage vote?

He look like he reacted to a couple of votes, so i figured more votes might make him wobble a bit more, i think he might of had a newish join date so we might have got some kind of reaction out of him?

He pretty much ignored it as i think he just posted on the last page so im probably wrong

[profii]

VOTE: profii
Stop randing scum in my games!

I know this is gamberlers fallacy but exactly... I'm not

[profii]

You mean you now think Mage is Town?

As I said, it's too early to really form definitive reads, he seems like he is not bothered by the pressure of my vote - which was what I was looking at.

If anything you might say as a new player who may panic as scum under pressure, that's probably not happening like I thought it might

[profii]

VOTE: profii
Stop randing scum in my games!

I know this is gamberlers fallacy but exactly... I'm not

Well you haven't yet given me much of a reason to believe that.

Out of interest who has given you much of a reason to believe they are 1 alignment or the other

Because you can apply that to probably a majority of the slots

Yet you are getting caught up in this wagon forming? Why is that

[profii]

VOTE: profii
Stop randing scum in my games!

I know this is gamberlers fallacy but exactly... I'm not

Well you haven't yet given me much of a reason to believe that.

Out of interest who has given you much of a reason to believe they are 1 alignment or the other

Because you can apply that to probably a majority of the slots

Yet you are getting caught up in this wagon forming? Why is that

Nbee and Luca perhaps, even if they are the top two posters?

The thing is, if I were voting purely on the basis of who I'm finding the most suspicious, I would be voting Anotora, but I'm voting you in an effort to actually progress the game.

How can you even contemplate Luca when you are following him on the profii wagon which he created ?

This sounds to me like someone who is trying to force reasons to have their vote wherever it suits

When I looked at my wagon I thought someone here is scum surely

I think luca believes his case because hes done it before
I think norgey boy could go either way, I've never noticed him shit post as much but I have seen him call things shady a lot
Una was RVS so it doesnt matter
Your vote is poor in comparison though

VOTE: Egix

[profii]

Oh and anotora- at least he is getting with the case that luca has made. I can kinda take that.

I really object to that egix post though.

[profii]

We’re currently on page 8. For comparison, check Profii’s play from page 8 of his Town game and see the monumental difference:

Spoiler:

I'd like to see those 5 players take a stance on Luca vs Garmr and I will accept any of SvS, SvT, TvT as long as it comes with a rationale

I don't know for sure, like i said already. It could be a SvT scenario. It's just that i feel more confident going against Kraeg right how. His posts and reason for voting me just doesn't feel right.

so you want me to follow you onto voting Kraeg because it "just doesn't feel right"

you can't say anything about the Luca vs Garmr bit other than it's probably TvT but could be SvT

poor show tbh

VOTE: Norwegianboy

Vote Garmr

I think the PR discussion is scummy. Even if he did it in a game where he's town, that doesn't prove the he's town in this game. It's not like we are in point where PRs have flipped and there is a necessity to discuss scenarios about PRs. The way he tried to identify me as a PR is scummy. A PR discussion would most likely come from scum. Why? because they're the one who's going to look for potential PRs for their nightkill so there's definitely a tendency for scum to open PR discussions. Town would most likely focus on finding scum especially on D1.

Just because I just voted Norge, dont consider yourself off the hook, I asked a specific group of people, which included you, to provide their thoughts on the Luca vs Garmr argument.

Whilst you have said Garmr is more likely to be scum, you've cited the reason that he mentioned PRs but not mentioned anything about Luca.

Give me more man!

How do you feel about Luca?

Is your read of Kraeg changed?

I feel like I was focused trying to find a lead that I just built something on Luca solely based on just trying to find a lead, so looking back I don't think my point was very convincing.

As for Kraeg, the time you posted I still had a slight scum lean on him. After his latest posts, though, I feel like they're far too dynamic with their thoughts/posting and I have an even larger scum lean on him now. Kraeg tells Norwegian to 'forgot about his vote on him because it's just an RVS thing' but his posts earlier imply that he was much more serious about this than he's stating now. Also, I feel like the move to Garmr is far too sudden and invited by the fact that others started the Garmr wagon, but honestly that could be said for multiple players here, I guess.

I haven't really delved into the possibility of a Garmr + Kraeg scum team, on the surface from what I remember it looks a bit unlikely but not impossible.

For the time being I'll go back to VOTE: Kraeg as I feel more confident with a push on him than Garmr with what we have now.

why have you gone from saying Garmr was possibly caught scum to just forgetting about it and voting someone else?

Though I kind of see your logic on Kraeg, I'd be keen to hear more about Garmr and your caught scum comment - also if you have any thoughts on the 1v1 ?

@Profii
Also i never said i wanted you to follow my vote. Which you seem to suggest in post 188.
Not sure why you thought that.

You vote someone because you want to lynch someone

You need a majority to lynch someone

So if you logically want to lynch someone you need people to follow

So youd need me plus others to follow your reasons

But if that's wrong you are voting for someone you dont want to lynch, which is stupid and not the point of the game

viewtopic.php?p=11224085#p11224085

Have you checked any of my town, non mason games to see how I go by page 8? Assume not

[profii]

I applaud the scum making this happen to be fair.

[profii]

I'm a VT

Make sure you lynch someone on this wagon tomorrow. Ta

[profii]

I'd guess Egix, Norway, Luca, in that order until you hit scum

[profii]

He’s just trying to give away as little info as possible as he’s obviously getting lynched.

I highly doubt he will flip Town.

You are going to have egg on your face.

[profii]

He’s just trying to give away as little info as possible as he’s obviously getting lynched.

I highly doubt he will flip Town.

You are going to have egg on your face.

Profii has now had Luca as town, then scum, but now he’s suggesting he is town again.

I'm not sure how you take that as me suggesting he is town.

When I flip, tomorrow luca is going to have to defend this to you all.

Sure if he is scum he will be secretly happy that he got rid of me

But as far as this thread is concerned he will have an issue

[profii]

This was from the other game when Profii was scum. As you can see he uses the exact same excuse:

Luca Blight

I played as Masons with Profii before and he was so hungry to push the game forward and find scum, I'm not feeling that at all from him so far.

VOTE: Profii

I'm mostly caught up, but skimmed some parts. I'll start ISO'ing in more detail.

Profii

My thought in that game was I had a solid claim so I could push the game as hard as I like and if I got a lot of pressure I had a self claim.

My role in this game does not self resolve so I cant play like that

Ironically, I expected my Mason-style to attract more scum reads than normal and it seems the opposite is happening here

Sure. I can roll with that reasoning. Anyway, how about we get a decent wagon going? This game feels dead.
VOTE: Profii

Just realised.

Norway you can roll with that reasoning but go to that 50p game that just got cancelled. I was a backup doctor and I was literally just mucking about the whole game.

You were in the game... I dont universally drive town forward in every town game I play (I actually try not to... I think my reads are usually below average)

But you are just sheeping luca

Maybe it's just norway creating momentum on Lucas thing

[profii]

Also I'll point out scum lynches meet resistance... we've hit l-1 twice by page 10 and I've claimed VT already

No one is pausing to consider this red flag. You must lynch on the wagon tomorrow

[profii]

For clarity, I'm happy with a Proffi lynch today, but no rush on that.

For now, all I'm willing to say is that profii shouldn't be the lynch D1. I'll get back to this D2, I think.

You can look at it 2 ways

This wagon has flown up. If luca is town and scum are sheeping him, then I reckon there are probably 2 town on the wagon riding the wave of everyone getting excited about lynching me

Alternatively- if we wagon someone else and it flies up like this wagon, there is probably going to be at least a player in common and if their rationale doesnt stand up that would be a problem

[profii]

NorwegianboyEE, Anotora, Egix96, Riabi

Also thinking 1-2 scum in this group, depending on what profii is.
Either a buddy bussing for towncred, or scum/2 aiming for a mislynch.

There is no one in this player list who could talk me into getting bussed after I made all the calls in that game i just won.

[profii]

That said, I think if you were buddies with proffi in this spot you would bus him, so Proffi-scum = Unabomba-town

No. Profii!scum does not implicate bomber town.

Yeah I'd just self vote if I was scum at this point

[profii]

Ok I'm actually going to go with a tin foil hat theory if I'm right. Its hilariously good.

There are a lot of players in this game I've never met...
However I have met Una and I just beat him as scum. I intentionally kept Una and Flavor Leaf alive as long as possible I knew it would naturally create paranoia and it kinda worked... nearly went wrong but we got there.

So now Una knows I did that on purpose but here he is trying to cool down my wagon.

Could it be that Una is in the scum thread with players I've never met saying "we could really do with lynching profii but he will suspect me (una) if I push it, so you guys sheep luca and I'll buddy him"

Its feasible

[profii]

Like I'm in no position to talk all you guys into lynching Una from here but if Antora/Riabi/battle mage flip scum, please circle back to this theory

Even Egix actually, I could see him agreeing to do that too

[profii]

72offsuit is more likely to flip scum.
They need to bluff to get anything out of that hand anyway, so likely scum.

VOTE: 72offsuit

This vote makes no sense to me which is fuelling my theory about Una sending his buddies to me.

[profii]

What's a wim?

I dont expect to get out of this

[profii]

What's a wim?

I dont expect to get out of this

Wanting It More, i.e. motivation to win.

What I'm suggesting is that if you selfvoted, you would be trading your own life in the game for... what gain exactly? It's not like there's heaps of discussion to cut off.

Besides, you say you don't expect to live, and yet I still see you fighting to live another day.

not expecting to live and trying to live are not mutually exclusive

[profii]

I'd say hammer me, vig una and if he flips scum focus on my wagon. That obviously relies on us having a vig.

Even if we dont, you've got a good direction for tomorrow so my death isn't exactly in vain i think.

[profii]

It's not lazy at all, there is a tinfoil hat and everything.

Meaning I acknowledge it's a bit crazy to consider that you might be pulling the strings behind all of this


If anything though, we can see Norgey boy being open minded so whe we go look at my wagon, I'd probably rule him out more easily now

I cant make my mind up on luca. What he says is true to a degree - in terms of he has caught me by not driving the game, but also, what i am saying is true, I can be more assertive when I'm sitting on a self resolving mason claim

The problem I have is people think this game is about mirroring town meta and you could argue that is exactly what luca is doing ,- literally replicating an argument he has used before to catch me as scum. It's totally illogical in my mind to expect 2 games to turn out exactly the same way so that is making me consider the mirroring meta factor a lot

I dunno

[profii]

Why dont we lynch me today... if we wagon Una, it will get to l-1 claim and he might not be a VT.... lynching me isn't a big deal

[profii]

I agree with everything NorwegianboyEE has said recently.

VOTE: Una

@Profii: your play has been scummy independent of meta - the fact your play so far resembles your scum meta and is opposite to your Town meta is just a strong supporting point. I do not expect two performances to be the same at all, but i do expect to see some solving/townie play from someone who is clearly capable of it. Your Una theory has some merit, but until then you’d shown nothing that resembles a townie thought process whatsoever.

Nothing alignment indicative had happened until then last page or 2 IMO

[profii]

Here is the vote progression on proffi:

Una (L-6)
Una - Luca (L-5)
Una - Luca- Norwegian (L-4)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora (L-3)
Una - Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anatora - Exig (L-3)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi (L-2)
Luca - Norwegian - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 1)
Luca - Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 2)
Anotora - Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 3)
Exig - Riabi - Battle Mage (L - 4)


Several people have used false reasoning based on incorrect vote counts on the profii wagon:

- Battle Mage falsely claimed L-1 and asked for a claim from profii
- profii answered the claim without ever questioning the need to since he was not actually at L-1
- Anotora falsely implied that profii was in danger of being hammered by me when profii was actually at L-3 and used that as justification to get off of the profii wagon

I really don't know what to make of all of this. Any of the three could be using intentional miscounts of the votes to advance some agenda but very unlikely all three are (which would require all to be scum).

My read of profii is "too scummy to be scum" at this point. His flailing in posts 134 - 201 were very scummy but his subsequent posts have been a lot better. The good news is that wagon progression I think gives us a lot of data going forward.

At this point I'm not on board with a lynch of profii or UnaBombaH today specifically because of their 'weird associations' as Luca put it.

I saw the last page and you calling me and Una TvT - I was about to say woah TMI but this is a great post

[profii]

I'd say battle mage

[profii]

I'm saying battle mage because I'm looking at my wagon and he still felt a bit under pressure even though I got the join date bit wrong

Not sure if I moved my vote

VOTE: battle mage

[profii]

I re read

I cant find what I was remembering about battle mage so I'm going to forget about it

I skimmed through the ISOs of people voting for me...

VOTE: anotora

Like I can get why people voted for me for "not scum hunting"
I then posted a theory about the way Una, which seemed tinfoil hat but it was driven by the fact that a vote on me was quite natural at the time, yet Una said no no no for no apparent reason

That for some reason killed the wagon, with people saying "yeah you have a point" (personally I'm surprised my theory carried so much traction given I expected to die)

But generally looking at how my wagon came and went, anotora stands out as not fitting in because they dont reference this narrative which feels unnatural

Battle mage is still up there because they are already trying to work out scum 2 after I flip. I'm putting this down to tunneled townie because the scum case on me was fair given my lack of scum hunting

But in fact I've just talked myself out of BM scum... I was going to say they were lining up my lynch and then the next lynch, but that wont work because when I flip the whole narrative will change to "oh we really thought profii was scum"

And I'm not seeing stuff from BM like "if we lynch profii, we should lynch X, but if I'm wrong lynch Y" (I.e. a plan for my town flip)



Ehhh

[profii]

Yeah it was suspicious, it was like

Votes, votes, votes
You're not scum hunting!
Erm this guy might be scum.
Ok you're not scum bye!


It shouldn't be that easy

[profii]

I think battle mage is tunneling me but I hadn't really noticed

[profii]

I still want more from 72, but I’m ok going with this again now.

VOTE: Profii

I still think he’s scum for all the reasons I stated earlier, plus the fact that as Town I think he’d get a second wind from what happened and have a ‘nothing left to lose’ attitude, but he’s continuing in the same resigned manner.

Key worker yo

[profii]

VOTE: Profii
Maybe this will wake him up.

Are you trying to wake him up or kill him?

---

• @Churros: You appear to be upset. Are you offended?
  • Also, do you feel that pushing Riabi was "going with along the gamestate"?

VOTE: profii You're back at L-2 again. Do you feel that your wagon is all town?

No idea what my wagon is composed of

[profii]

If riabi is scum why does he make a mess of the mason claim stuff in the game thread

I mean I stopped reading the iso as soon as I read that

[profii]

I cant decide an alignment on Norge or Luca

Lucas push on me comes from a place that I can see scum!luca mirroring his meta and I've enabled him to do that so it is my fault so I have this internal paranoia

Norgey boy flipping from being nice to sassy is also messing with me

[profii]

Looker is quiet but that's just looker, saudade is obnoxious and that's just Saudade. If you can tell me how to read either you are a better player than me

[profii]

I have my theory on Unabombah but the weird thing about it, is it just comes from a narrative that fits the event of the game more than the read. Kinda a bit read influenced because Una hard defended me for no reason but meh

[profii]

I still like 72

[profii]

I thought antora was scummy but he was off my wagon quite early . I thought I was dead so I assume scum would think they are getting a lynch done, dont think youd get off so early so perhaps as rethink here is warranted

[profii]

Battle mage I can probably argue the case either way. I need to make a decision and i fel like he should just be scum but I cant explain why

[profii]

Churros is town

[profii]

Egix could easily be scum

[profii]

Zan town as well

[profii]

Scum is

Egix
{Luca / norgey boy}
{Battle mage (most likely) / anotora (outside chance)}



There you go

[profii]

If you made me pick 3 its

Luca / battle / egix


I'm ready to die now

[profii]

Yeah this is never Town!Profii.

Thanks for confirming.

If you are town be careful you dont make yourself tomorrows lynch with this

[profii]

Yeah this is never Town!Profii.

Thanks for confirming.

If you are town be careful you dont make yourself tomorrows lynch with this

Like why would a town player even say this?

It’s a scum post.

[profii]

I haven't got the time or inclination for loads of analysis etc.

You have my reads

[profii]

Still claiming VT still wont self hammer

[profii]

Still claiming VT still wont self hammer

Did anyone ask you to self-hammer?

Awkward

[profii]

I'm a VT !

[profii]

I'm a VT !

Sorry to hear that profi, but we needed your lynch to progress this game I think.

I even said before that the gamestate didn't feel like you were scum, but individually I wasn't seeing town you at all, and didn't want to keep you around for too long because it was a huge distraction from everyone progressing if we were wrong, and a big delay if we were right.

Assuming you're not trolling or this isn't a real hammer (I didn't count), anything left to say?

not really. I gave my reads as best I could. But I'm just a VT so I know as much as any other town at this point

I agree I had to go though

[profii]

Battle mage is getting more and more scummier though

[profii]

Battle Mage i hope i don't need to spell out the obvious here. But my associations with Profii if he flips scum are nonexistent. This is assuming he even flips scum, which i don't know why you believe when Profii claimed VT when he was hammered.

But you were the one telling me to self hammer in the PT, ugh

[profii]

That was so close

BM - pretty lucky to get egix through
Also thought there was a chance in lylo there


Ahhh

[profii]

Zantetsu

Dude

Chill

[profii]

Zantetsu

Dude

Chill

Just quote what you think I shouldn't have said and I will try to tone down on whatever it was. Sincerely.

You havent said anything over the line but I am worried that you just need to relax about this situation / game

[profii]

oh I forgot. Luca, can you stop scum reading me because I don't play like I did in that mason game every single time, I wont play like that unless im a mason, and even then I'll think twice about it

thanks