Mini 2136 | City That Never Sleeps [Game over!]

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: BBmolla

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: skitter30

[nomnomnom]

pagetop

[nomnomnom]

I thought you weren't gonna RVS?

-Smart

I have the feeling this isn't random.
Just a feeling.

[nomnomnom]

RVS Doesn't Mean You're Supposed to be Random

Okay...how do I say this without coming across more pompous than usual...I...I think that a vast majority of players of Mafia are fething lackwits who don't know what they're supposed to do at game start.

Yeah, that about sums it up. Sadly.

Look, the term RVS does stand for 'Random Voting Stage'. Yes, I get that. I understand. However, the reason it was called that was because to outsiders/newbies back in the day seeing it for the first time it *appeared* random. It was anything but. Really, what it should be called is LIVS, 'low information voting stage'. You don't have a lot of info available, and, yeah, maybe your first vote reasons are indeed because you hate someone's avatar. but you're (theoretically) placing that vote to see reactions to it. Who else votes that player? Who avoids voting them? Who tries to build a wagon? Who avoids this? How does the player react to your vote? Who do they vote? All of that, ALL OF IT, is information, info for the town to assess both Day 1 and later in the game.

What RVS is *not* is a stage where you're supposed to dork around doing nothing for whatever arbitrary amount of pages you think are supposed to be the "fun" pages. That's called pre and post game. Once voting starts the game has started. You're allowed (and I suppose, encouraged) to have fun. I usually do myself. But I *don't* support having fun to the detriment of scumhunting, because that is stupid.

Your vote isn't random. You have placed it for a reason and so has everyone else.

The more you try to make it random the more you are helping scum, because scum like low information voting, because it helps them. Which day do scum have the most ability to mislynch town? Day 1 - due to lack of info.

Therefore, the only sane thing, the only pro-town thing, the only good play thing to do - IS TO PREVENT THE LOW INFORMATION STAGE FROM LASTING ANY LONGER THAN IT HAS TO.

Or...I guess you can have "fun" and joke, and fight any wagons simply because you apparently don't know how to use PMs or a General thread, or a signup thread, or post game to interact with players you like.

RVS isn't random.

Get over your silly selves.

Beautiful Voltaire quote.

[nomnomnom]

Karnage on a scale of 1 to 10 how scared are you of my scumgame?

[nomnomnom]

Nah, I got the joke. The post still pinged me.

What's the part that pinged you?

[nomnomnom]

@ nom why'd you change your vote from bbmolla to me at that juncture?

scummy opening from what I know about your meta
my vote would be somewhere else right now but seriously if you're town with me this game should honestly go pretty fast, you're high sort priority

[nomnomnom]

what did you find scummy about it?

extremely tense opening, you open with an extremely serious question that confronts someone about a vote on page one without any kind of sort of fluffposting and from what I know about your meta this tends to go on the scumpile

[nomnomnom]

also the people i like to fluff with weren't really posting at the time

I can't believe you don't like fluffposting with me

[nomnomnom]

That awkward moment when to want to vote and unvote someone at the same time.
Blergh
VOTE: Eve let's see what happens here

[nomnomnom]

That awkward moment when to want to vote and unvote someone at the same time.
Blergh
VOTE: Eve let's see what happens here

what are you thinking about their entrance?

Moreso than what they posted the bbmolla vote makes no sense and I lowkey think they just sheeped my vote considering mine was just before

[nomnomnom]

Let me ponder about things for a while.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: arcyon
red flags all over that post above

[nomnomnom]

Plenty of games, skitter and I play regularly in all sorts of configurations.
Why the question?

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: arcyon
red flags all over that post above

It seems odd that you only find it scummy after it's already pointed out. This feels somewhat like scum just trying to start a wagon.

"after it's already pointed out"? You don't even know why I voted after this post or what I found scummy in that post. Seems like a big assumption to make coming from you.

[nomnomnom]

It still doesn't make sense though, who pointed out what before another person? Clarify please.

[nomnomnom]

Well why did you vote BBMolla if it wasn't sheeping or for building a wagon

[nomnomnom]

I think calling what I'm doing "scumhunting" at all would be an overstatement.

This line.

-Smart

Yeah this is pretty much the biggest redflag imo, this is like trying to defend yourself in the worst way possible? I don't know.
Could come from town if you think about it, but it just screams "I am scared" in a way.

pedit: I think it's best for everyone to stop thinking scums are these overlogical people who have everything calculated and on lock because by experience this is not a good way to analyze interactions most of the time because scums make emotional errors most of the time, not logical ones.

[nomnomnom]

UNVOTE: Need to think about a few posts, wiser to unvote in this setup we never know

Hey nom, what did you get out of this vote/push? Are you satisfied with the Eve slot/do you have a read here? You dropped the questioning on Eve after she responded but never said anything about what came of it.

more or less voted bbmolla for the same reason I initially did so yeah I'm satisfied with it
eve is clearly a amiquirkyyet player so the rest might as well be fluff, but I was satisfied with this answer and the answer struck me as +++townie

[nomnomnom]

My main internal question right now is if it's town or scum from Skitter to be confused by eve's personality and press on it, intuition says it's townie because I know skitter... she'd probably drop this instantly and let eve scum it up then join the wagon later.

[nomnomnom]

if she was scum*

[nomnomnom]

I think Karnage also screams town so far. Fairly straightforward posting.

[nomnomnom]

Nom voted for me because of 107, which I could see someone having a hard time with, especially not knowing me

Please detail on the "especially not knowing me" part.

[nomnomnom]

Well, if the questions you are asking is not for trying to sort people, what purpose do they serve?

[nomnomnom]

Are you scared of being wrong?

[nomnomnom]

Hm.
Yeah, alright.
If you had to vig someone out of this game right now who would it be?

[nomnomnom]

Thanks.
I feel like this is much more to work with.
Back to pondering.

[nomnomnom]

according to my own vig-minded scumhunting I would be shooting Allo right now so I should probably VOTE: Allo
This lack of commitment on every single subject so far is concerning and feels like scum who doesn't want to commit to reads just yet.

[nomnomnom]

@Limit
Acryon is much more townie.
GL is in null territory, can't establish a read. Him joining the allo wagon could go either way and that depends on a lot of factors we just don't know right now, so I can't have a good analysis about that right now.
Auro is eh, honestly I'll think about him later
@Skitter eve is already on the wagon, she can't possibly lolhammer, do you think the wagon forming fast on allo is enough to point at him being town?

[nomnomnom]

Why do you think that is?

[nomnomnom]

igornoring eve's vote i think gl's vote is the worst vote on the wagon

^ Regarding this, forgot to quote soz

[nomnomnom]

Do you think this quote is insincere from GL?

that said, I do kinda like your other posts the past couple of pages and honestly appreciate this metaphor lol

I can see a townie dropping a previous push because they liked some posts and supporting a wagon from 2 people they heavily townread.
For me it's a matter of trying to establish if the "I liked your recent posts" is a townie thought, or a scummy reason to join the allo wagon. What do you think?

[nomnomnom]

I think I disagree. That post in particular shows a nuanced thought over a player. If a scum isn't a stream-of-consciousness machine, they mostly produce content that is fairly one sided on people and tend to categorize as GOOD, BAD or WISHY-WASHY. Producing a post that goes like "I heavily disagree with what you say and here's why... but I think I townread you" takes either a townie mind, or a scum that understands how to properly replicate that kind of nuance, which is honestly hard as fuck.
If we're talking about suspect timing, I'd recommend checking the progression of Allo regarding Eve and Acryon. Suddenly understood eve was shitposting when I said it was shitposting, and suddenly produces a real vote and thought on a player when I accused him of not doing that, on a player everyone more or less suspected previously. That timing and progression is just really bad. I think that the wagon forming really fast is just due to conversational missteps from Allo rather than having scum support. That's my inner feeling on this one.

[nomnomnom]

Even if it's true it doesn't change much to the previous points brought up and thus is an irrelevant defense.

[nomnomnom]

Yeah I'm not convinced about this eve push. Makes me feel at ease.

[nomnomnom]

Ill at ease* sorry
This eve push doesn't inspire me confidence

[nomnomnom]

Ill at ease* sorry
This eve push doesn't inspire me confidence

It’s currently Auro, bbmolla, and acryon on the Eve wagon.

Who out of those is putting you ill at ease? Are you scumreading any of them?

- Smarter

bbmolla>=auro>>>acryon
in that order
I don't think that there's scum in there but I'm just not seeing eve and I think the reasons to push Eve as a lynch are... how to put it into words... everyone can see that Eve has weird lines and reasoning but do those necessarily come from scum? I doubt it. In my experience if scum takes an irrational persona it's a conscious choice in how to approach the game and how to fool the playerlist, and I sincerely don't think that Eve is that kind of player, so I have my doubts about these lines coming from a scum mindset. The other possibility I see is that someone could be this bad at scum that they're posting extremely obvious bad lines, in that case their meta should make that obvious from the get go. If Eve is that kind of player I'll already give those things some thoughts. But as of right now it feels mislynchbaity.

[nomnomnom]

Sausage I don't mean to say this in a mean way but your posts are the definition of "dry"

[nomnomnom]

Allo has still not generated pro-town content ever since he was pushed and only threw shade at Eve. This is still the best lynch today.

[nomnomnom]

I frankly don't care about the mechanical side of it, just get Allo lynched and this game is over if he flips scum.

[nomnomnom]

Skitter's alignment should be pretty clear once we get a scum lynch.
I don't wanna lynch Eve right now, this is mislynch bait.

[nomnomnom]

I explained my stance on eve earlier, read my ISO.

[nomnomnom]

I think a skim of her town meta will show that this is her playstyle.

I've not seen many players post in such a manner as town and then subvert it when they roll scum - isn't it expected they'll carry that style?

There always are differences. Unless a player is greatly aware of their standing in the playerlist or is the kind to post over and over again, scum players are bound to always be more careful with what they say. I think a greater scumtell for someone like Eve if they were to post way less "insane sounding stuff", if that makes sense. But again, I might be wrong. I might make a meta check to see what her scumgame looks like, but this is my intuition so far.

[nomnomnom]

Hm, alright, so I'm checking this game for reference: viewtopic.php?f=23&t=81667
I'll post any significant finding I find when I'm through it all, but one thing is already certain, I was wrong on the bravado. Eve as scum asking a townie to 1v1 her. I guess my intuition was wrong.
Resetting the read to null and opening my mind I guess. Shouldn't take too long.

[nomnomnom]

Bonus note: through all these meta dives the biggest scumtell I have ever seen is the "why am I town" question. I don't know why but scums tend to ask that question? I've done it too and I can't rationalize why I did that, but I'm definitely seeing a pattern. Just throwing that out there, maybe I'm wrong but just pointing this out for later games.

[nomnomnom]

Skitter's alignment should be pretty clear once we get a scum lynch.

I don't wanna lynch Eve right now, this is mislynch bait.

how so?
i kinda agree with you on eve

I'd rather not reveal tells in case you are scum

[nomnomnom]

Having a hard time staying engaged in a game with massive walls, let me be real here.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: gl

urgh, really? You don't want to lynch in allo/eve? At least the eve flip reveals associative, I have no faith in a GL lynch.

[nomnomnom]

Allo is still not lynched and wallposts all over jesus christ almighty.

[nomnomnom]

We have one day left we should be compromising on a slot and I sure am not compromising on Skitt or GL

[nomnomnom]

We have like six days left nom, from the first Votecount

I somehow read we had one day left rofl

[nomnomnom]

There is no reason not to lynch Allo here. Nobody townreads the guy.

[nomnomnom]

Honestly fmpov we can't risk taking Allo further than day 1 because he clearly lacks any helpful content here, just saying.

[nomnomnom]

If someone has an objection with me being on the wagon they should state that now otherwise I am staying.

[nomnomnom]

Can someone sum up the case on Allo for me?

-Smart

I could write a case of the scummy things he did but a more convincing sentence is that ever since he was pushed he has yet to produce a pro-town content or anything that comes close to solving and that should already be enough of a redflag to lynch there on day 1.

[nomnomnom]

You don't need a wallpost about Allo to understand why he's a good lynch today.
Scum agenda is making people go away by being the most silent you can get away with and let people get paranoid with other slots like Eve.
Again there's no one here with an actual towncase for Allo.

[nomnomnom]

That doesn't seem like a red flag to me; a red flag would be something that indicates a scum agenda, but I don't see how this helps further a scum agenda.

Eeeeexactly, I'm with Smart here

He says scummy sounding things in his towngames. I've lynched him as scum for that. He often gets lynched.

I am surprised that Nomnomnom calls Eve mislynch bait but doesn't see Allo that way.

Because Eve is more scummy in tone and that has the tendency to make people think "scum" instantly.
She still could be scum ultimately speaking, in this gamestate. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot her right now.
I might compromise on Eve if needed today.

[nomnomnom]

Because Eve is more scummy in tone and that has the tendency to make people think "scum" instantly.
She still could be scum ultimately speaking, in this gamestate. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot her right now.

If Allo flips town, would you think she is a good lynch D2 in absence of any other information or posting, then?

Sure.
I'd have to rethink the game during the night in any case.
I don't know we honestly could do either in my head, these slots will cause problems for a long time.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Eve

[nomnomnom]

I don't know I've got some hesitations with some of his posts.
I think Karnage is not a good vote though, I have a hard time following this game it literally became wall post center and I am awful at reading those

[nomnomnom]

I don't know I'm lost with this game and all these wallposts make me skip significant discussion
Karnage is like obvtown right? What made you doubt about him?

[nomnomnom]

What do you mean townposts?
I said wallposts

[nomnomnom]

hmmmmmmm slip?????

[nomnomnom]

I don't know I'm lost with this game and all these wallposts make me skip significant discussion
Karnage is like obvtown right? What made you doubt about him?

Are you skipping everything, or just the walls? I think the number of walls is much smaller than you make it out to be.

honestly I'm kinda skipping everything at this point and I just want a flip all this stuff is meaningless to me.
Just make someone flip I'm sick of this.

[nomnomnom]

What prevents you from saying "I'm sick of this, just get me one more flip" after D1, D2, D3...?

We get a flip and the gamestate advances.
Right now it feels stagnant and I hate these phases where it feels like I'm reading pages and pages, I retain nothing out of it that was useful in terms of sorting and so on and so forth.
It often happens in larges and sometimes I just replace out if that type of gamestate is sustained, like in undertale.

[nomnomnom]

I'd rather be honest and say that I have trouble reading most of the game rather than pretending to do and prodging and shit.
Just blergh skitter is voting me for a garbage reason kinda makes me want to vote there too now, couldn't we just have voted allo and went to day 2.

[nomnomnom]

I'd rather be honest and say that I have trouble reading most of the game rather than pretending to do and prodging and shit.
Just blergh skitter is voting me for a garbage reason kinda makes me want to vote there too now, couldn't we just have voted allo and went to day 2.

nom, can you clarify whether you legitimately thought that was a slip or were just joking?

- Smarter

It could be a legit slip that's why I pointed out.
I'm not 100% entertaining it as a legit slip, just pointing that out right now because slips become apparent in late game.

[nomnomnom]

I disagree with that evaluation. Many pushes are happening, the gamestate is progressing well.

Okay; let's take your current desired lynch, and assume they flip town. That's a gamestate progression. What now? Please tell me what this information would gain for you in terms of a solve.

I think Skitter and GuiltyLion both are town.

Because Eve is more scummy in tone and that has the tendency to make people think "scum" instantly.
She still could be scum ultimately speaking, in this gamestate. If I had a vig shot I'd shoot her right now.
I might compromise on Eve if needed today.

VOTE: Eve

Also,

please explain the vote change to Eve

, given your earlier stance only listed her as a compromise.

What did Allo do that got you to move off

?

Sure, but can you answer these? Thanks.

I voted Eve because I am having some doubts on Allo's slot, and Eve is the next wagon that makes sense.
I know I said they were lynchbait earlier but that could easily be wrong, and I have no idea where I could take my vote. Like honestly I'm actually having some trouble seeing who is scum if both Allo and Eve are town here, and that usually indicates skitt scum.

[nomnomnom]

The thing is that if I vote skitt right now it's going to cause a 1v1 gamestate and I'm likely to lose the 1v1 and if we're both town that's a very bad gamestate to induce on purpose.
I'm just pondering things really, I'd go on a 1v1 if I was 1v1 convinced, but I am not.
UNVOTE:

[nomnomnom]

Like honestly I'm actually having some trouble seeing who is scum if both Allo and Eve are town here, and that usually indicates skitt scum.

Can you explain this part more?

- Smarter

If I can't say for sure "X is scum" then that means the scum is good and obviously I look at the more competent player on the table if that's the case.

[nomnomnom]

Eh, fuck it. The fact that skitt actually voted me after stating that karnage is scum and dropping that read really fast is a really big red flag and I am not taking chances.
VOTE: Skitter
bbmolla feels a bit sketch too, I don't know where this day is going and honestly I'm having no fucking clue right now.

[nomnomnom]

I just don't know anymore.
Shrug.

[nomnomnom]

All of this is happening because I ain't 100% sure about Allo anymore and I was sure about him, and I'm having second doubts and I just can't see the fucking scum in this game.
It must be in skitt/eve/molla honestly, I just don't see it anywhere... I can't just see who the hell is scum here according to this gamestate.
I'm just confused is all, those walls earlier got me lost and I didn't advance in my own reads further than eve and allo and aaaaaaaaaaa
pedit: nah, I don't have the mental space for it and I'm seriously confused about this game and this is going to lead for my lynch anyway so if this is where it's leading I might as well just form solid reads so they can be semi-trusted when I go down at least

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Eve
Eeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeh

[nomnomnom]

What about Karnage?

[nomnomnom]

See the thing is, this kind of post just makes me feel ill at ease.
I just can't find a way to trust you sometimes it's kind of crazy, but maybe you're just scum.
How do you feel about Eve joining my wagon?

[nomnomnom]

I don't know it feels like your jump on me is kind of opportunistic and honestly with our game history at this point I imagine you should come to the conclusion that my confusion about this gamestate is genuine.
Like, think about this for a second: as scum I just come across as more "I am 100% always doing this" and I would probably have always stayed on Allo, and you know this because this is how I acted in several scum games with you before, why would I purposefully make a few posts explaining I am confused, especially when I know this is the kind of posts that will bring me heat? The only reason I am typing this is because I am genuinely lost.
I'd actually rather solidify on a wagon right now, or if I am the lynch today making sure I get solid last thoughts and possibly reorganize that wagon so scum doesn't get on it.
Where I'm getting at is: I'm someone who's very good at seeming town when I am scum and we both know I wouldn't purposefully make this kind of post as scum. It's a tonal thing.

[nomnomnom]

Okay but here I had a very easy way as scum not to get scumread and literally everyone in this game thought I was conftown for it.
There's no reason for me as scum to say I am confused here.

[nomnomnom]

I may do some weird things as scum but I sure am not making a series of post that will get me scumread after getting read as town by literally all the table lol

[nomnomnom]

I am paranoid of you should be the root of all of it.
I don't wanna go Karnage... what's your read on bbmolla?

[nomnomnom]

Like I don't know actually the thing is that according to that gamestate Karnage could perfectly be lurker scum buuuuuuuuuut his early posts were just good?
I don't feel confident enough. I would hate lynching a slot I thoguht was conftown before, and it turns out they are town. That's like worst case scenario for me.
pedit: I am confused about where to vote is that really hard to grasp as a town thought?
ppedit: Qualifying something as a "townpost" *could* be a slip from a scum player pointing at other people that's what I was saying.
I could go on bbmolla at this stage of the game

[nomnomnom]

I'm just trying to rethink this game through if Eve and Allo are both town and that's where my confusion stems before I genuinely don't know where to go from there because a lot of the playerlist strikes town as me.

[nomnomnom]

I don't know I thought Allo was confscum because of his really bad early posts but like, the way he responds without a care in the world is just... how to explain this...
like I imagine maybe there would be more panic from allo here and it just gives me a pause when I see a player not giving a shit like this, so I took a step back.
I think Eve is a 50/50, maybe she's lynchbait but I've seen the skyrim game and she actually acted the same as here, so that's why I had a sudden shift there too, and that's why I would settle on eve right now.

[nomnomnom]

I'm honestly trying to work a compromise right now, my reads are really fucking shit and I can't make sense of this gamestate so I'd rather sheep reads right now I'm just being honest and trying to be helpful (even though getting scumread right now is the complete opposite of being a helpful townie)

[nomnomnom]

Eve or bbmolla. Maybe.
Karnage I'd need some serious convincing.

[nomnomnom]

Your posts are very hit and run if that makes sense, and I think in this gamestate making low risk posts is the way to go considering that some people are throwing wallposts at each other, so you're a candidate for scum in my head.
Although I recognize your playstyle is roughly the same as the micro we played in together, so... yeah.

[nomnomnom]

I'm not sure if I'm AtEing right now, at least it's not AtE like I used to do back then in some games. I hope...

[nomnomnom]

Right.
Take your time.

[nomnomnom]

I'm also confused how in the matter of 2 posts you say "I can't read nom accurately after that last game I played with her" and then say "nom is town" that's also a reason why I feel weirded out.

[nomnomnom]

Nom, what's your read on me?

You were on my ass pretty hard in Boon's game, went on to check my buddy, then told us to lynch another buddy in the Boonus room... Your play seems so much resigned and different here. I know you said you're unable to keep up but ehh

nullish town?
I have no fucking clue
I was on your ass that game because I saw some movements that didn't make sense, here I don't see them.

[nomnomnom]

Can we just lynch eve/bbmolla and move on to next day?
I just can't be assed responding to anything really, we aren't making progress without a flip at this point
VOTE: Eve
VOTE: Eve
VOTE: Eve

[nomnomnom]

With that said it's funny that people are THIS scared of my scumgame that they're ready to reference everything I said in scum PTs in the past
However you guys fail to realize that I'm just town with an agenda of trying to advance my own reads, really.

[nomnomnom]

Because I don't think Karnage is scum. It's that simple.

[nomnomnom]

Possibly yes, at least eve!scum makes more sense than karnage!scum.

[nomnomnom]

Eh maybe it's lazy.
Maybe that's what it is.
I'm lazy and I hate going in circles, I just want a lynch.

[nomnomnom]

*sigh*
day 1 wasted as always
people just cannot understand how I play as town I am literally wagonned day 1 every single game I play because of tonal shit
skitter should fucking know better

[nomnomnom]

this is frustrating i'm done this is repeating every single game, and I can say whatever I want people stop themselves at "WAIT YOU SAID SOMETHING ELSE BEFORE"
of fucking course my reads change this is mafia only scums stay 100% consistent because this is what scums do for crying out loud

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Nom
Just get me out of here so you can learn you reads lesson

[nomnomnom]

I'm sick of joining games and every single game instead of people considering my town agenda they think I'm some kind of thanatos gambit mastermind of whatever and consider everything I do is a fucking gambit
you guys are very VERY bad at psychology and it's honestly starting to piss me off when I join games and I get wagonned in every single one of them in day 1 because I made the mistake of sharing reconsideration in thread
next time I'll just stfu and sheep people

[nomnomnom]

I was townread by literally all the god damn playerlist and you guys think that me posting "wait I'm not sure about this" is some kind of scum tactic??? are you fucking joking?
please use your brains for one second and get a grip or just get me out of here, but if I'm getting out of here I ain't letting a scumfuck on my wagon that's for sure

[nomnomnom]

What kind of defense do you want me to give to the shit people give me? "nuh uh I'm town"?? It doesn't matter what I say at this point it happens in every game, and in every game I give the same justification, and in every game people wagon me because I rethought my reads. Like what's so hard to understand? Are all of you in this playerlist really this mindboggled that someone might do a sharp 180 in their reads? Like use your god damn brains for one second it's not because I don't spend a wallpost explaining my ~totally and logical rationale for changing my vote~ that it doesn't exist. This is why I get wagonned, because people expect that other people give them a million wallposts to read so in their head everything stays ~logical~. But this game ain't fucking logical and you already know this so why do you expect me to constantly post wallposts about all my reads constantly when 1) everyone is already doing that and that's just going to clog the thread up 2) I don't want to post readslists because my reads are ever changing and I like flexibility and so I don't get attacked on "WAIT YOU CHANGED YOUR READS" like it's fucking happening right now. This gamestate is why I just avoid sharing my reads because then people get surprised when I change them. Like god fucking damn we have a decent playerlist, you'd imagine some people would understand the concept of changing your reads. I don't fucking know anymore. Sorry I know this is ranting and disrespectful but I've had enough of this shit and I cannot stop this curse at this point people just don't fucking understand.

[nomnomnom]

do whatever the fuck you want but please wagon eve the fuck out of this game tomorrow because she's just playing like in skyrim and she's not fucking saying anything right now because the gamestate is diverting away from her AND THAT IS WHAT SCUMS DO

[nomnomnom]

I just can't believe some of this shit that is posted in thread right now especially from people like GL. Like yes, I called Eve mislynch bait before, but that was before reading the skyrim game and if I vote her obviously that means I changed my mind about that, so why do you fucking bring it up like it's some sort of contradiction.

MAFIA IS NOT A LOGIC GAME

[nomnomnom]

I hate being in these spots because I honestly can't discern "town who is really bad at reading people" vs "opportunistic scum who is abusing a moment of weakness", so yeah, fuck that.
It's not too late to vote Eve but I ain't moving my self-vote until I got a few unvotes, I ain't letting a hammer happen while I'm away.

[nomnomnom]

Go on, hammer me if you dare. Do it now.

[nomnomnom]

You know what fine you guys want your karnage wagon? Then vote for it, we'll see if it's just posturing.
VOTE: Karnage
All this talk about Karnage and no one voting him, let's fix that.

[nomnomnom]

You guys are voting me because I think someone you think is scum is town, which is pretty stupid.
Vote your scumreads.

[nomnomnom]

I guess I don't mind.
UNVOTE:
It's sad because I was conftown and now I'm forcing a copcheck on my ass. Such a waste, I need to stop ruining my conftown statuses in games.

[nomnomnom]

Nom's ISO is more complaints and less solving.
Last time she had this kind of oubtburst, she kept solving.

I literally said I had trouble with reads this game and you expect me to pump reads?

[nomnomnom]

I just want a flip even if it's mine

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: nom

[nomnomnom]

If this lynch actually goes through I'll be cackling

[nomnomnom]

The worst is: I'm going to get blamed for this and told "but why didn't you try harder!!!" or something and I already know that lol
I can't be assed just do it

[nomnomnom]

Yup definitely my fault if people can't read confusion as town and decide to lynch a player because "they're not trying hard enough"

[nomnomnom]

You want to lynch me because you asked me "why is karnage town" when you scumread him and because you don't like my answer you voted me
That's honestly the dumbest reason to vote someone, you're going to lynch someone because they have a differing opinion about a player, this is not even the first time I see this, if you believe Karnage is scum like you've said for 20 pages already then vote him for crying out loud instead of voting people who say the guy is town.

I just hope this lynch teaches people a lesson about that because fmpov it's absolutely stupid, but whatever.
This will also be a warning lesson about trying to metadive me.

[nomnomnom]

Who am I kidding, people will do the same thing in every single game because they think they got me pinned and they think they understand my scumgame lol
In a way I should be flattered that people are this scared of my scumgame that they'll simply never trust me in town games, but in reality it's fairly annoying if I need to be honest

[nomnomnom]

I'm also a bit annoyed that my lynch allows scum to just sit on my wagon and people are totally oblivious to it, this day one lynch should have removed someone problematic like Eve/Allo like we said in the very early pages yet we're going to end on me because of tonal shit and because I changed my mind about 2 slots. It's just stupid. I'm sorry if this offends anyone but fmpov I just go through the stupidest town games where people scumread me for the weirdest fucking reasons. Every single one of them, and in every single one of them I have to defend myself from completely insane accusations and in every single one of those games I can't discern who is town being blind as fuck and who is scum just abusing the situation. It's stupid and I hate it.

[nomnomnom]

Your """""logical""""" scumhunting doesn't work with emotional reactionary people like me, find something else already.

[nomnomnom]

Yet I have towngames where I show the same level of confusion or whatever, you're doing selective metadives and obviously if you only go to my scumgames this is the conclusion you come to.
Scums have an agenda, what's the fucking point in me doing what I did this game when I had a comfortable universally townread position? There's simply no point, I simply could do like Eve/Karnage right now, just shut my damn zipper, let the game go through, let people get lynched, yet I came in thread with a genuine intent to let you know I was hesitating on reads. Tell me how that's scum when I could have simply pretended to say "nah I won't change my mind". Just tell me already. Nobody, not even skitt, will say this. I suspect skitter is scum here because there's no fucking way that she doesn't see this as town honestly, she should know me at this point.

[nomnomnom]

Hey remember that scum game you linked? How about you go in that game and witness how I didn't say a single incriminating word against my slot and just let people scumread each other, hammer each other, and so on and so forth? How about you tell me why I didn't do the same shit in this game considering this is what I did in that scumgame? It's simple, because I am not fucking scum. It's really simple once you think about it.

[nomnomnom]

Random thought, but if the TA dies tonight, you should HEAVILY consider lynching people who said they were okay being off wagon, because that would mean scums figured out the TA and that they know there's no risk in being off wagon. Maybe there's a crumb out there. Just a random thought.

pedit: I said I skipped wordy posts because I am not interested in pointless 1v1s and I do this every single game
you wanna lynch me for that? Go ahead
Want a game where I lose my god damn mind in terms of confusion? Here's one: viewtopic.php?f=84&t=79835

[nomnomnom]

If I was willing to let people lynch each other, I certainly wouldn't have explained reads on acryon and eve earlier on and I certainly wouldn't have come in thread to say I was confused about reads to do 180s on them.
That's not letting people scumread each other. I simply ain't getting into every single one of your little skirmishes, you can certainly not count on that

[nomnomnom]

I am interested in advancing MY reads, not yours, so I could give less of a fuck about 5 pages where you "1v1" someone and I retain nothing out of it because it serves no interest to me, it might as well not exist and I certainly haven't made progress.
If we lynch someone other than me it should be Eve, Karnage, allo or skitt. First 3 because the gamestate lends itself to scums being profiting from this situation, and skitt because I seriously am starting to doubt she would misread me this hard as town.
pedit: If me skipping posts is antitown then so be it. I can't be assed. I said I just wanted a flip, I've been honest, I haven't made any progress. I want my own progress in this game. I can't make progress with pointless posts. There's so many useless posts in this game. For real. I've also done it in the game Auro is talking about and I don't know why he's confused about this game considering that the game he's talking about, I prodged for a fucking week straight lol

[nomnomnom]

And lo and behold, I also got suddenly scumread in that game for that same reason! Who would have thought!!!
lmao

[nomnomnom]

So how were you advancing your own reads on slots apart from Allo/Eve?

Ok; I asked this once and got ignored, but I'll ask again: Say Allo flips town. This is a progression by your standards. Now who does this point to?

Can you cite posts from the "confused" game implying your confusion stemmed from a lack of ability to read the game, rather than people behaving weirdly?

If allo flips town I'll think about this game in the night and reread the thread, that's what I always do. That's also how I caught Titus in the game we played together: we lynched a slot, we had a flip, I reread the game, I thought to myself Titus was the best cop shot, and she was scum. I do this every game.
Also I'm not sure what you're referring to with that second question, and I certainly don't have an ace memory to remember every single thing I posted in every single game, but I have a lot of phases in games where I just skip a lot of posts and I'm not even ashamed to admit it. I do it every single game, big last game I remember doing this in is team mafia, I just skimmed through like 7 pages of thread at some points.

How is it that you can be so confused (which means your reads are weak this game) while simultaneously knowing enough to decide which posts are "useless" and "pointless"?

I don't see how the two are incompatible?
Say you see two people discuss about matter that both town and scum could discuss and it doesn't point towards anything. That doesn't help, at least it doesn't do so immediately. So if that happens for a while, it's just posts that serve no purpose in

IMMEDIATE

scumhunting, which stems in my confusion especially since a few slots just seem to lurk away this gamestate. D

[nomnomnom]

Do you know why I skim through big portion of posts and single tidbits of discussions? Because the micro portion of mafia is not how you catch scum. It's the macro portion of mafia, the bigger picture, analyzing the gamestate. The micro portion only becomes helpful when you specifically look for things like interaction when you have a few flips to work with. That's why I do it. I like how I do things, but apparently a lot of people don't This is just how I play.

[nomnomnom]

Everyone can sustain a micro discussion with enough competency, whether it is town or scum, but what scum can't do is eternally hide on a macro level.
This is why I don't understand people who eternally focus on posts, make extremely long posts that serve no purpose, etc... because they think they're probably doing something, but from a solving pov it serves absolutely no purpose, at least in how I see the game.

[nomnomnom]

So do you have any macro-comments on the gamestate leading up to the wagon on you?
If you've already stated before, sorry, I skimmed them , please re-summarize.

Well, I've already said it before: in this gamestate, the scums are either lurking away until my lynch happens, or profiting from this confusion to scumread me. I haven't had a lot of defending, so from a logical perspective, scum *should* be in lurkers or the ones that are pushing my lynch, which leads to eve, allo, karnage and skitt. I still am not sure about Karnage at all but from a macro perspective right now he totally could be scum and I could settle for a lynch there, certainly. I think Eve is totally in her scumrange from what I read in Skyrim, so that's why I did a radical 180.

Also I need to point this out again, but Eve had me on ultra town spot after Acryon and limit in 534 and suddenly switched on me. That's why I want that slot now. I don't do radical 180s for nothing. I think scum's in there for sure.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Eve
This is what I propose as a wagon. I think from a read progression and macro standpoint she's the sketchiest in the mix I posted.

[nomnomnom]

I'd honestly need to re-read the game I think to give a 100% accurate opinion on that, but to me it felt like Smart/you were just having a lot of posts together (which is what I was referring to when I said walls) and scums were just waiting patiently. Makes sense still, methinks.
pedit: posturing and VCA are extremely important in this game, if you can somehow posture yourself as townie and get off the wagon, that's an extremely good move for scum, and moving her vote away from me certainly does that if my lynch is on the horizon.
Could also be pretending to hesitate and all, done it before.

[nomnomnom]

I feel like Eve has a similar game to mine, which is why I instantly jumped on the "mislynch bait" explanation when people started scumreading her for tone, because that's what people do with me sometimes.

[nomnomnom]

Then again if you're doubting on Eve, I have the other slots I mentioned as compromise. We don't have all day.
If you seriously can't trust me, then I guess my lynch is inevitable. Maybe my guidance will be helpful then if my word can be trusted.

[nomnomnom]

I think Allo is the weakest in the list I posted, actually, probably because of the tone. Something about that strikes me more townie? I don't know. Still have some doubts.
I'd be something like Eve > karnage=skitt > allo in terms of my own personal preferences.

[nomnomnom]

Eeeeh, maybe Karnage a big higher.
Eeeeeeeeh, I'm starting to see he could legit be scum honestly.

[nomnomnom]

Auro you can't control the VCA with this little time
VOTE: Karnage
I'll self hammer if it requires it

[nomnomnom]

This is just sad but whatever.
Enjoy this little lesson about me

[nomnomnom]

And yet you want to lynch the person that says the people prodging have scum in them. Fascinating isn't it.

[nomnomnom]

spoiler they're prodging because the gamestate is on me and I am a dangerous person to keep in endgame because I end up solving shit down the road

[nomnomnom]

There's plenty of karnage interactions, just saying

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Skitter
This is scum. Cop her/lynch her.

[nomnomnom]

VOTE: Nom
Have fun