Newbie 2003: Earth [game over!]

[Ydrasse]

@enomis: i think that fmpov, your iso just looked like a big wall of questions that outweighed the information you put out comparatively until now. i think that what i look for personally is a healthy mixture of questioning and interaction/dialogue between people in equal parts.

that's more of a personal bias though i feel, though; it didn't make you seem super scummy to me but it just felt off. we might have a difference in playstyles though. who do you think other than clemency is scummy rn?

i won't press it too hard right now if people wanna hear from maduisha, but i'd like to hear from midwaybear as well as i said before. they said they were gonna reread and... nothing came of it save for an odd question and no other content.

[Maduisha]

Alright, I've reread and I'm ready to play. I'm still getting used to the new interface here, so going to apologize in advance for badly formatted posts.

I usually hardpush one player at a time, but tbh this game seems a bit slower-paced than what I'm used to, so I'm gonna try to get a couple balls rolling at once.

First, I don't think clemency scumslipped. I followed the logic, but it's a huge reach. I often address players who's alignment I'm not sure of as though they are town, I just intuitively like giving people the benefit of the doubt. In general, I'm hesitant to try to determine someone's alignment based on individual lines. This is a lesson I've learned recently, but these sorts of "slips" don't end up being as alignment-indicative as I used to think, and I'm trying to move towards more holistic assessments of players and slots. With that in mind, I actually think clemency is pretty towny based on the opening pages. Rn I wanna hear from enomis on that.

The second thing is, the most questionable post I saw on re-read was probably #66 by Maduisha. I’m gonna quote some of the lines from that post:
[referring to a TR on clemency]: “this slot stays null for me as I don't find his content to be alignment indicative, but I'm getting slight town vibes from it and I want to see more”
[referring to a TR on Ydrasse]: “Ydrasse looks town for me. I know it's early to say this, but I get a gut feeling from her posts. Maybe it's because we seem to coincide in opinion about stuff right now and I'm being a bit biased.”
[referring to a TR on DkKoba]: “DkKoba seems to really want to get the game moving, which is a good thing, so I'm townleading him right now too.”
It’s kind of wild to me to have three TR’s on page 3 of a forum game, but more than that I find the way the reads are phrased really questionable. There’s a sort of hedging tone w.r.t. each of the three reads and honestly I’ve just seen lines like this from scum players. The one in Ydrasse in particular, the sort of “hivemind” read has always been really weak to me. Like, someone outed the same general read at the same time as you, so you TR them? Idk just feels ingenuine.

Yeah, I think there's some terminology confusion here, so I'm going to try to explain what I meant in that post. I like to classify people as:

- Null (cannot read yet).
- Town/scum lean (weak read but already feel like I see alignment indicative elements and would like to see more from them).
- Town/scum read (firm read that I feel like I can back with sufficient reasons).
- Lock town/scum (when my mind is set on someone's alignment for the rest of the game).

These are terms I used in previous games, and I learned them from other players using them as well.

When you said it's wild to townread 3 players so soon, I'm assuming you understood from it that I firmly believe they are town already. That is not the case, what I'm saying is that I think they are displaying behavior that lets on on their intentions, although I will still re-evaluate the slots as the game continues. The fact that you called my reads not genuine is bothering me a little bit. The game has barely started, I feel like you should take some time to see more interaction from a slot before saying something like that. But fine, I'll put myself on your shoes and flesh out the reads a bit so you can see where I come from:

Clemancy: I said he's null for me because he hasn't produced content that is AI, but I felt his attitude felt a slight bit towny. I'm not reading him as town, I'm saying that I like his attitude so far.

Ydrasse: I town lean her because of a gut feeling/gut ping, whatever you want to call it. The way she speaks, the fact that she asked questions and complained about being ignored felt so sincere to me, so I'm inclined to believe she's townier than scum. The fact that we coincided in some opinions is something that I'm not sure if I should use to support a read, but I can't lie and say I don't like her slot more when I saw that we're on the same page (not really buying the scum slip idea/wondering why would explaining mechanics be scummy).

DkKoba: This one is self explanatory, I believe, but I'll try to explain it better. He tried to move the game along, he posted the first non-RVS vote, which is a way to generate discussion and actual content. Not only that, but I especially like aggressive/confident/arrogant? players more usually, since I feel like they are more likely to be town, since scum doesn't usually start pointing fingers right away, since they're more interested in getting town read by others than pushing fake scum reads that can backfire. That's also why I feel like scum joins wagons instead of creating them themselves.

I would also like to address DkKoba's concern about me, but it's a bit difficult considering he voted me and then said his reasons were the same as yours, so I hope this answers reaches both of you. If anyone has questions, I'll happily answer, because I want to be transparent with my way of thinking so we can all be on the same page.

I hope that clarifies some of my thought process.

[Maduisha]

Also, I want to hear Midwaybear's thoughts on the current wagons, because he has been posting in the previous page but displayed no opinion on the pushes or anything much. I get that he was distracted by the "pivot" mistake and stuff, but I feel it's weird that his next post is about some trivial thing like GTKAS instead of commenting on what's going on in the thread. I get asking unrelated questions when there's not much going on at the time, but refusing to interact with the thread as a whole when there are multiple discussion points feels a bit strange for me and I would want to know what does he see right now.

[Maduisha]

I'm rereading page 5, but the push of Enomis still feels a little... empty... even if it comes from slots I'm more confident about.

I'm slightly liking that he's pissed at DK for his attitude, even. I feel like town are more likely to display negative emotions like frustration and such.

[Ydrasse]

maduisha, have your town reads changed any since post 66? and do you have any scum reads/leans yet at all?

[Maduisha]

Not really, the only scummy behaviors I've seen are pretty weak.

One would be DK being like "I want to build a town block" but nah, the rest of his content feels towny. The other would be Midway being a bit evasive. He's going to talk when he sees this, so that's the best direction to get some more content to work with, I feel. I think that will also bring some more Apogee content because he's watching Midway, so that's interesting because his slot is pretty null to me right now.

What about you? Enomis/Midway scum leans? Do you have anything else in mind?

[Maduisha]

Actually, let's get the ball rolling a bit, because I feel like I might get a bit shrugged off if he doesn't see a vote?

VOTE: Midwaybear

Midway, I want to know what did you find out by rereading! And I would also like to know why did you fluff post in 113 when there were conversations going on. What do you feel about the new guy and DK pushing me together? And the ongoing Enomis discussion? Active lurking feels scummy to me and I want to know why did you decide to not interact with the thread there.

[Ydrasse]

i feel a bit better about enomis now, getting a bit of answers. while something about his posts altogether rang some bells in my head i'm not so concerned about them now. i feel that with more interaction/content i might be able to look past all the questioning?

even so i can't pinpoint anyone else who has particularly stood out to me, save midway. the others in the table seem to have been able to explain themselves in ways that i find relatively natural to follow which feels good to me. i really hope that the final slot is replaced so we can get content out of them because it's super frustrating to try and figure out who's towny and who's not before someone comes barreling in shaking things up.

for midway, i do think it's weird and definitely the most scummy thing overall thus far, at least fmpov. it rings to me as either someone trying to brush off any pressure on them and hoping it vanishes/is forgotten or someone who simply doesn't know how or what to contribute. which... the latter is understandable but not really acceptable.

if it is for some reason that, please just throw something at us, midway. i'd really like to know where your head's at!!

[Ydrasse]

also maduisha i'd like to know what exactly makes you town lean on me but not apogee. looking back it seems like you two are on the same page as well and have the same sort of thoughts/opinions on things. (midway [post 81/127] and the scumslip incident [23/66]).

is it just a tonal thing, apogee not posting as much, or what? :<

[Maduisha]

Spoiler: Enomis Post 65

Spoiler: Apogee post 64

I've been reading back through the thread, and although I don't feel I have solid reads a few things stood out.

I just keep thinking about the pretty quick 3 person wagon on Enomis that then Clemency withdrew from. Clemency's withdrawal could be a scum move to not be seen as wagoning too hard too early? But I'm not sure it really makes more sense for him to withdraw as a maf than as a town who just didn't want a big push yet. Feel like I still need to see more to make a firm guess on the individual players involved, but either way something with the whole early votes for Enomis feels weird.

Obviously want to see the other 2 players/their replacements. Although it could be a time zone or schedule thing I would like to hear more from Maduisha, who contributed very quickly to that above wagon, answered one question, and hasn't posted since. Again, I don't have scumreads on anyone but think there is something to this situation.

I'll probably not be on much longer tonight but will take another read tomorrow morning.

I think you are thinking too much into the wagon. Clemency and Maduisha votes were RVS. DkKoba pushed the wagon because he thought I was scummy. What was weird for you about this wagon?

Yeah, I'm probably thinking too much about it but the specific part that I'm hung up on is DkKoba joining it, Clemency almost immediately leaving it, and them then arguing about that move for a page. Feels like someone there has a deeper motive? I'm not really sure how to take Clemency's recent claim that they were just testing a strategy with the whole DkKoba argument.

------------------

In other areas, I have a mild suspicion on midwaybear. Feels like they are posting just enough to avoid looking like they aren't posting but they haven't offered many opinions. The slightly weird backtrack between posts 58 and 60 on the townblocks has me as well. "what is a scumblock anyways?" doesn't read super genuine to me.

I'll move my vote to VOTE: midwaybear for now.

------------------

clemency is town

Want to elaborate? Saw your post while typing mine up and I'd love to hear the reasoning.

It's mostly about this post. He seems to be reading more into the Enomis wagon than I am, specifically about Clemency's move. Also when he said he's going to vote Midway "for now" I feel a bit weird. Telling them it's temporary is the same as not voting, right? I see no pressure, so I'm unsure about this slot.

[enomis]

1) didnt mean questions, meant the tips
2) ur more scummy. I think clemency has more or less townslipped with their tone as of rn.
3) yes yes yes. it more depends ~how~ its done but I did not like how you presented your "tips" and the content of them.

@Dkkoba:

1) Which tips would you be referring to? Would it be the first post Only?
2a) Where did clemency townslip? Would you be referring the the gambit he did?
2b) How is the gambit a townslip?
3) Same as question 1. Which tips and what did you not like about them.

[Datisi]

Official Vote Count 1.04

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

midwaybear

(2): Apogee, Maduisha

Maduisha

(1): DkKoba

Clemency

(1): enomis

DkKoba

(1): midwaybear

enomis

(1): Ydrasse

Not Voting

(3): joqiza, Lij00, Clemency

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-15 10:45:00).

Mod notes:

• joqiza is the new RandaAlzifahri.
  
• Looking for a replacement for Lij00.

[/area]

[Datisi]

votato replaces Lij00.

[midwaybear]

LET'S GOOOO
hi votato

[midwaybear]

okok I'll actually reread this time sorry

[enomis]

who do you think other than clemency is scummy rn?

Ydrasse: Sorry I missed this during my first read just now. But no one as of now.

[votato]

Official Vote Count 1.02

---

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to lynch.

Lynching

enomis

(1): DkKoba

Clemency

(1): enomis

DkKoba

(1): midwaybear

Maduisha

(1): Apogee

midwaybear

(1): Ydrasse

Not Voting

(4): RandaAlzifahri, Lij00, Clemency, Maduisha

Deadline:

(expired on 2020-05-15 10:45:00).

Mod notes:

• RandaAlzifahri and Lij00 have (expired on 2020-05-06 12:30:56) to confirm their role before I start looking for replacements.

[/area]

clemency is town

Oh jeez. This Game is way too serious for page 6. The posts are way too long. There isn't nearly enough shitposting. Downvote

[votato]

oh i forgot that i quoted that. How does a vote count prove anything?

[DkKoba]

1) didnt mean questions, meant the tips
2) ur more scummy. I think clemency has more or less townslipped with their tone as of rn.
3) yes yes yes. it more depends ~how~ its done but I did not like how you presented your "tips" and the content of them.

@Dkkoba:

1) Which tips would you be referring to? Would it be the first post Only?
2a) Where did clemency townslip? Would you be referring the the gambit he did?
2b) How is the gambit a townslip?
3) Same as question 1. Which tips and what did you not like about them.

im only answering these questions if you explain the point of them.

[votato]

VOTE: dkkoba

[DkKoba]

and the fearvotes roll in

[DkKoba]

I was hoping you were at least typing up an explaination or reading the thread but it seems votato has chosen neither.
please read for context b4 you try to start pointless wagons because we're not in rvs anymore.

as for emonis still pushing clemency: exactly what emonis listed is what makes clemency town because he is genuine and his intentions were slipped as town. sorry bub we aren't lynching them today.

[DkKoba]

okok I'll actually reread this time sorry

we're waiting

[midwaybear]

Er not yet
Give me an hour to an hour thirty

[enomis]

mechposting is a term i made up for a specific type of filler that involves explaining game mechanics rather than attempting to advance the game state. Something I found that I didn't like about emonis' questions is:

1) yeah thats fairly obvious
2) this one is the big one, it looks to be reaction fishing for roles to get people to act more of a certain way.(

again this post only prompted me to want to push on emonis, not actually scumread him, I am not shading him for this, merely throwing out a theory that I based my push on

)
3) fairly useless but also NAI and reasonable to say but also can be interpreted as extra filler.

@DkKoba:

Because I am somehow feeling that you are winging your way through this mech posting scumread.
See the bolded part. But now you are scumreading me for the exact same thing.

And then from your pov, when you see clemency posting something "blatanly scummy", you didn't change your vote to him. I assume from your playstyle, you will vote someone you think is the scummiest to push on him. The reason I wanted to ask if me or clemency was more scummy was to try to see if you are winging you statement, but you missed that question at that point in time.

I wanted to see your reaction before explaining but it seems that you aren't gonna cooperate with me.
-------------------------------

Also, just to clarify the mech post: I simply copied the mech post from one of the IC opening post that I played before which I also stated in the opening post. I thought the abbreviation portion was helpful and so i copied the pointers part of the post too.