Micro 952 - The Coalition: ItGBSMoD [game over!]

[DonCorleone]

We lynch koba and he flips scum and we look at his interactions and solve the game from there

Personally I feel like there’s pretty good odds on it being that we lynch you!

[DonCorleone]

I don’t think it’s implausible

[DonCorleone]

Given that you’re pushing practically the same angle rn idk why you think that would be an odd conclusion to come to?

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE:

I want to wait for a replacement

[DonCorleone]

Because in any circumstance where koba!slot is town I’d like to hear from a fresh pair of eyes on where they think the scum is

[DonCorleone]

Plus I also partly wanted to lynch koba!slot because koba was annoying me and I may have exaggerated how certain I was that they were scum

[DonCorleone]

Hi chem

If I ask you to read through the game and give me your impressions is that ever gonna happen or nah?

[DonCorleone]

Well I’m willing to give you the chance but you have less than 3 days which doesn’t fill me with as much confidence especially as we’re at practically 60 fuckin pages already (mostly the fault of your predecessor)

[DonCorleone]

That works

I think the most helpful things would be:

1) most likely to be scum on coalition
2) more likely 2 scum in or 1 in/1 out
3) most likely scum outside coalition

[DonCorleone]

[quote="In post 1451, Datisi]

flavour

[/quote]

[DonCorleone]

I’m no longer sure if I want to lynch chemist

[DonCorleone]

*execute, ffs

[DonCorleone]

I agree that klick and clover are likely to be unaligned

[DonCorleone]

i have trouble seeing DC as town partly because of the amount he's been going "I would do this this and this if I were scum, not this" and I'm just like ew

Why is this “ew”?

[DonCorleone]

Independently of koba and bugspray I think chemist reads as town

[DonCorleone]

Oh fuck we only have a day left

[DonCorleone]

Who said SS was town? Was it deimos?

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: pooky

[DonCorleone]

DC can you do more than just naked vote :/

I can when I feel like it

[DonCorleone]

Literally nothing has changed about the fact that we’re not lynching outside the coalition

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE:

[DonCorleone]

What?

[DonCorleone]

I’m thinking about it and rereading ISOs

What do you think about klick, wug?

[DonCorleone]

I’m really not sure he is town

Why is he not an option today?

[DonCorleone]

Why have you been assuming he’s town since you repped in?

[DonCorleone]

look at the deadline

Yes, I know, but we’d only need 1-2 more votes assuming pooky is online

[DonCorleone]

Okay, what do you think about his pooky/koba progressions though?

[DonCorleone]

Or we could all vote klick! If you’re here and willing to listen (and I guess in aldus’ case if I’ve been wrong and he’s not scum)

[DonCorleone]

Pooky's entrance to today strikes me as really town.

I'm fine losing if Sleeper/Klick are scum so that leaves Koba/Pooky.
VOTE: Pooky
and I haven't been townreading this slot all game so

I've just come off this as an idea. Today he does just feel like he's solving.

So like it feels like klick got on board with the koba wagon really easily despite him being part of the “towncore” that he mentions early on

In fact Pooky, if you're town, and I'm town, our odds of hitting scum if we literally vote randomly in the coalition are 4/9, which is Very High

this sounds like he really believes pooky is town (worth thinking about later)

I think Koba is by far the most likely scum in the coalition, and I also think regardless of the flip it'll significantly progress towards a solve

Aldus if you vote Koba rn a scum will die

pushing hard for a quick koba flip but critically it’s not a push that was led by him, it’s a push that I very much led

UNVOTE:
Chemist where have I gone wrong?
Not considering you I suppose I'm between Pooky and Sleeper. Sleeper has had a couple of moments where I've been a bit like wtf, but overall has a pretty towny tone. Whereas Pooky was pretty consistently meh pre-coalition but has looked really good from the start of today.

Now the momentum drops off after I unvote koba and say I want a replacement, klick’s tone becomes conciliatory towards chem

I also think Chemist's play is pretty town so far.

More sheeping of consensus

I will join a wagon on Sleeper or Pooky to get a lynch today. I'm trying to work out which I prefer.

Moves onto the new viable possibilities

[DonCorleone]

don if it's between pooky-clover which is it

If you’re about to go to bed I’d rather you stayed on clover I think

[DonCorleone]

As in, I’ll be online up until deadline and I really think I’d like us to switch to klick but I’d rather compromise onto clover if it has to be one of them

[DonCorleone]

Like yes, I’m aware that this is my own fault for not having been more of a presence but that shouldn’t affect whether you think my argument here makes sense

Also if we all vote and pooky comes online then so long as literally anyone else comes online we should be good

[DonCorleone]

i dunno klick made a pretty good case for clover being town

Okay but why does that make klick town

Okay, what do you think about his pooky/koba progressions though?

whom is this addressed to?

Was talking to wug but seeing as you’re here you can read my above points too

[DonCorleone]

He’ll do it to stay alive

[DonCorleone]

I don't think Klick would hard defend Clover that much unless they were both scum, since they're both on the coalition.

Why not though? It feels like the opportunity for a hard pocket and it means that *if* both are seen as scum clover is likely to go down first

And if not, and clover is town, then klick potentially has enough mislynches just on the coalition to win

[DonCorleone]

Wug explain to me why clover is a good choice? It’s fine if it’s just barebones

[DonCorleone]

True, that he wants others executed before him, but not true that it harms his wincon that much. 2 mislynches is lylo, correct? Say klick gets pooky -> sleeper executed, and then is executed himself in 5p lylo

There would then be loads of wifom in bringing like (you, wug, clover) to 3p lylo especially in any circumstance where a partner buses

And up until that point, it allows him to pocket clover so long as they’re not S/S

[DonCorleone]

Also I agreed with Klick saying Pooky's scumread on Clover felt fake, so I can see Klick's progression on townreading Pooky to scumreading Pooky as genuine.

Okay but I think pooky has a good point of: why not just hammer koba and hard defend him, why argue that sleeper/koba are sufficiently town that if we were to lynch scum outside of coalition we’d be mechanically winning?

Idk, I think in terms of leaving options open klick is trying to do that much more than pooky is, and I kind of liked his righteous indignation and his appeal to deimos and me to take the game more seriously

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: clover

If this reds and I die do me a favour and kill klick tomorrow?

[DonCorleone]

ooi wug have we played together before? You kinda remind me of someone

[DonCorleone]

You're assuming Klickscum can count on getting 2 others eliminated before him. What if he gets voted out Day 1 or Day 2? Then defending Clover has hurt him.

pedit: that was @DC

I don’t see why klick!scum wouldn’t think that after being widely townread the majority of the game and then not really getting suspected on coalition!fail compared to koba

[DonCorleone]

+it allows a load of wifom in any case on clover even if he does die D2

[DonCorleone]

idk who you are

wow rude

[DonCorleone]

Maybe it’s because you don’t do a very good job of explaining why you think what you think or maybe it’s because you come up with bad takes like this:

this sounds crazy but the more i think about it the more it sounds scummy as fuck no matter what pooky's alignment is

[DonCorleone]

Mine

[DonCorleone]

alright then explain what your naked vote on pooky earlier was about then

I wasn’t sure if I would have time to read up and based on my remembrance of the game I was okay lynching him and going from there tomorrow

[DonCorleone]

alright then explain what your naked vote on pooky earlier was about then

I wasn’t sure if I would have time to read up and based on my remembrance of the game I was okay lynching him and going from there tomorrow

so what changed

I had time today and reread because I thought pooky’s posts here were towny? I feel like I already explained this

[DonCorleone]

@deimos just FYI if you want a flip you’re gonna need to hammer clover because I’m not voting pooky

[DonCorleone]

Not gonna happen aldus

I’m not voting pooky ever so choose between no execution or compromising on clover

[DonCorleone]

Those are the choices as they stand before you

[DonCorleone]

The scumteam is literally Pooky and DC.

lol

[DonCorleone]

Klick your progression throughout the game is incredibly suited to the prevailing winds of opinion at the time and I don’t think I’ve seen you take a single controversial stance before anyone else or defend one

Why is that

[DonCorleone]

Your progression on me also makes zero sense

You went from calling me very likely town, to resisting me being on the coalition while insisting that I’d be very very likely town if it failed, then sheeping me on my koba push, to now arguing that I might be scum with the person who I put at L-1 for several hours and have no started to hard defend

[DonCorleone]

I’m greatly saddened that I left it too late to really revise the game and that we can’t just execute klick

[DonCorleone]

Grasp harder, aldus

[DonCorleone]

If I was going into this with the mindset of saving my partner, why do I leave him open to a hammer all night long?

[DonCorleone]

Your actions right now with Pooky seem specifically designed to help him worm out of today's lynch and I find that scummy as fuck
I literally don't have time to have this argument with you DC, if you're town stop dicking around and get back on scum. If you continue this argument I will be ignoring your posts for the rest of the day.

Sorry for ruining ur mislynch </3

[DonCorleone]

Again, this literally doesn’t make sense from the pov of me being scum: why leave my partner open to a hammer all night long? And why not start saving him earlier if that’s what I was planning to do? Why not just let koba get hammered? There’s so many flaws with the idea that I would be approaching a situation like this that it’s hilarious

[DonCorleone]

I vote Pooky on the condition Klick eats rope tomorrow on green flip

Just vote clover fam

[DonCorleone]

You’re not getting a flip if you don’t hammer clover, unless you want to gamble on sleeper or chemist coming online in the next hour and a half

[DonCorleone]

If I was going into this with the mindset of saving my partner, why do I leave him open to a hammer all night long?

The same reason Pooky shifted tone at L-1 - you talked about it in the scum pt

This makes no sense. I’d be leaving my partner exposed to a hammer all night, which would be perfectly reasonable given the deadline pressure that was oncoming and the dearth of people townreading pooky

[DonCorleone]

I think you’re exaggerating your confidence in pooky!scum too, klick

[DonCorleone]

The way you’re using phrasing implying that you’re certain he’s scum rings really false to me because I don’t think of you as someone who believes their scumhunting abilities are strong enough to be sure they’re locked on scum, and I’m pretty sure I’ve seen you admit that in the past when you’ve been town

[DonCorleone]

I feel rather good about a Knightmare lynch right this second and I'd appreciate if I was followed there today.

Let's just vote Knightmare.
The things people see as towntells are shaky at best and 'but would he do this?'s that hold little water
Meanwhile, chkflip and I at least both seem rather confident.

Posts like these are very different to saying “why won’t you vote scum” and imply a different level of confidence

[DonCorleone]

I can only describe the way you’ve entered this morning as “braggadocio” and in my experience that comes from scum quite a lot when they feel they need a lynch

[DonCorleone]

Tick tock goes the clock, deimos

[DonCorleone]

wallowing in doubts

If that ain’t a mood

[DonCorleone]

How can they both only be scum with clover, and wouldn’t that in fact imply clover!town?

[DonCorleone]

Like if they each could be scum with clover how does the behaviour of the other one make sense as town? And if their behaviour can make sense as town could they not still both be town in a world of clover!scum?

[DonCorleone]

Clover flipping scum has nothing to say about their alignments.

This feels wrong to me

The question is if clover!scum how were they both so wrong about him and that feels like it does say something

[DonCorleone]

I don’t really like either wagon I just think I left it too late and now we have two bad choices, of which I’d prefer clover

[DonCorleone]

I think aldus can probably be scum either way @deimos

I’m gonna be lowkey just disappointed if aldus is town here

[DonCorleone]

(Klick, aldus) doesn’t feel insane right now

[DonCorleone]

If Clover is town, why would you be disappointed with Aldus-town

I’m talking more generally

I think you’re wrong about pooky scum but if I did end up wrong there I’d take it back

But if pooky!town then aldus has just lazily tunnelled both me and him all day and I don’t think he’s posting like down, there’s just a lack of depth to a lot of his stuff and it reminds me of having just played scum with him and how he was there

[DonCorleone]

(Klick, aldus) doesn’t feel insane right now

But then why are they so obsessed over lynching Pooky rather than Clover?

I’m not sure. Idk how valid this is but I guess there’s two possibilities:

(1) they think clover will go through anyway which then sets up a pooky lynch tomorrow and gets them to 5p

(2) they think the path to a win involves a hard pocket on clover as the patsy who’s meant to vote town in 5p and the plan is to get pooky -> sleeper -> chem where clover is meant to misvote

[DonCorleone]

Also I agreed with Klick saying Pooky's scumread on Clover felt fake, so I can see Klick's progression on townreading Pooky to scumreading Pooky as genuine.

Okay but I think pooky has a good point of: why not just hammer koba and hard defend him, why argue that sleeper/koba are sufficiently town that if we were to lynch scum outside of coalition we’d be mechanically winning?

Idk, I think in terms of leaving options open klick is trying to do that much more than pooky is, and I kind of liked his righteous indignation and his appeal to deimos and me to take the game more seriously

I think his defence of “I could have just hammered koba” is fair and I liked him calling on me and deimos to do more which I think is also fair

[DonCorleone]

I have fallen for “well here’s my last ditch effort to save the town before my inevitable lynch” posts from scum before, but overall I think that pooky was pretty earnest and I’m picking up what he’s putting down

Seriously, why not just hammer koba? All he would have needed to do was take a soft defense if him, and even if it got him lynched tomorrow for hammering too early he could just get his partner to hardbus him and he’d have a good chance of winning overall

[DonCorleone]

I think you hit the nail on the head with “well here’s my last ditch effort to save the town before my inevitable lynch”

Right, only I also see this as town pretty frequently and it’s something I often do when I’m town and I can see the lynch coming and I don’t think the town will be capable of seeing I’m town without my flip

[DonCorleone]

Well, I’m off, there’s 3 of you on pooky around any of you can choose to switch over if you don’t want a no-execute on D1 which almost certain loses the game!

[DonCorleone]

You have *checks notes* 15 minutes to compromise, good luck!

[DonCorleone]

Boom

[DonCorleone]

That’s kind of a weird NK

[DonCorleone]

I would actually be down to go after Aldus today

SS > Aldus > Wug > Pooky is my current preferred order

I feel ok with Wug/Al/Pooky I would need to be sold on Koba slot being scummy here. Sorry for the afk holidays and all that!

[DonCorleone]

At least one of (you, klick, pooky)

[DonCorleone]

I think deimos is pretty definitely town

[DonCorleone]

So 1/2 in (klick, pooky, DnD) and up to 1 in (wug/aldus)

[DonCorleone]

Yes, it’s weird isn’t it

Did you expect to die?

[DonCorleone]

No more votes on pooky rn, if he is scum he’ll be able to self hammer and we shouldn’t waste the day

I’m not saying we drag it to deadline either, but ending it now would be pre-emptive

[DonCorleone]

I'm completely fine with this day ending early. What else are you wanting to get out of today?

I mean, I’d like to hear from everyone, and I’d definitely like to hear from pooky for any of the eventualities where he’s town and we have to choose between (you, DnD) tomorrow

[DonCorleone]

You also keep suggesting that wug is the natural partner for pooky (or me) but I see very little reason to think it’s not aldus unless we’re talking end of day yesterday — which is some reason, admittedly, but I don’t think it’s totally clearing. If aldus thought his partner was going down, hard bussing was a good option in this setup

[DonCorleone]

I think I'm a more viable execute than Chemist is

I’m not sure I agree with this and one of the main things I’m concerned about is that idk if this is more likely straightforward play or if it’s a big brain play where there’s 2 scum on and they’ve killed on to encourage the likelihood of off-coalition kills after we lynch scum on coalition

But I think that’s probably wrong and it does just mean there’s 1 on 1 off

[DonCorleone]

Okay, that’s fairly compelling

[DonCorleone]

If the team here is both of you then I think you’ve played really well but boy am I gonna be pissed

[DonCorleone]

Consider my vote spiritually on pooky but I won’t be making it concrete until everyone has commented on who they think is scum in the case that pooky does flip town + what they think of the NK

[DonCorleone]

Regarding that: I think part of the reason it seems weird is that while chem had pooky in his pool, he was at the very bottom of it for preference. I think scum!pooky might just think he’s going down today regardless, in which case if his partner is outside it makes sense to keep the pool as large as possible. But like if that’s the case then wug seems like the person who would obviously be executed, and so idk if it makes sense that pooky would throw away one of the only people who might not want him dead today as a priority

I’m not saying we act on this btw, I find it unlikely that we had two competing wagons on town yesterday (although if we did I would imagine there was almost certainly one scum on each wagon) and so flipping pooky seems fine, and then I’m happy to proceed with executing wug — I just had a game where I pushed for killing someone else instead of the obvscum because I thought that person was trying to setup for the obvscum flipping green, while the answer was actually that the obvscum was just scum — I just think this should all be mentioned

[DonCorleone]

I'm already pissed regardless of your alignment yesterday drove me insane.

Eh, sorry. I really liked pooky’s “if I’m dying anyway speech”. Second time I’ve been caught off guard by scum doing that fairly recently, assuming pooky!scum

Fwiw you nearly got what you wanted: I was waiting with a vote for pooky in my ctrl+v and if deimos had been a minute slower I would have hammered pooky

[DonCorleone]

This is why I’m now basically locktown on deimos, btw: scum!him could have not hammered (thinking i was gone) received no blame for it (or no more than you + aldus) and I think a no lynch in a situation like that is very + scum — you get to force the situation again on the second day and the apathy helps kill town

So deimos being willing to hammer his non-preferred wagon for the sake of the game (but pushing it to the edge to try to get me to capitulate) seemed very town to me

[DonCorleone]

I'm already pissed regardless of your alignment yesterday drove me insane.

Eh, sorry. I really liked pooky’s “if I’m dying anyway speech”. Second time I’ve been caught off guard by scum doing that fairly recently, assuming pooky!scum

Fwiw you nearly got what you wanted: I was waiting with a vote for pooky in my ctrl+v and if deimos had been a minute slower I would have hammered pooky

A minute slower? I hammered with less than a minute left to deadline!

Nah dude, timer shows 0 hours 0 minutes when it’s a minute away, I checked in a pt

(Inb4 what pt, is DC scumslipping!?!?)

[DonCorleone]

Yeah

Like I get it if either of you are paranoid of me tbh because I haven’t played a great game and this is basically exactly how I’d play as scum so

[DonCorleone]

Why was Pooky included in the coalition?

Good question

Bad judgement? Idk I thought he was town because I thought he came out of his fight with koba fine

[DonCorleone]

Yeah that's one of my concerns about the current solve too. A Pooky/Wug team should know that they most likely lose if Pooky gets executed, so the NK-on-coalition -and-give-up strat seems suboptimal.

See, I get this, but then the other explanations don’t really seem to make sense?

Like, I’m town. You’re town. Klick /probably/ doesn’t hardbus his buddy on D1? Idk maybe he does and I’m biased because I don’t love hardbussing my buddy on D1 but it’s just a weird move normally, when I’d say that if bussing in a micro you generally wanna do it D2. Especially as if klick is scum who hardbussed his buddy, then he’d have to explain not being the NK for 3 nights in a row while also being broadly perceived as town, which just isn’t a move I think many scum would make and I don’t wanna take a dump on klick’s scumgame but he’s not one of the people who come to mind as “would be fine with that strat”.

I think you make a good case on why aldus is town, given his approach to pooky.

I guess it could be DnD where if it’s (pooky, DnD) they think that killing on coalition locks in 2 ooc kills after one of them flips which would be enough. But if that’s the plan, pooky still flips scum and I hope I can spew myself sufficiently town by lylo to not be mislynched vs DnD.

But like the only slot left there who isn’t really towny is wug, and who might just have misperceived her position in the game.

OR pooky is town, this is all horrendously wrong, and scum are absolutely dunking on us this game, but I’d prefer not to worry about that too much

[DonCorleone]

Pooky just say your reads so we can end the day

[DonCorleone]

the chemist kill just makes no sense with how the game is set up

I mean, it does if you’re scum?

[DonCorleone]

Because you knew you were very likely to die today so if:

(1) your partner is out of the coalition, it leaves that pool as large as possible on D3/D4

(2) if your partner is in coalition, it WIFOMs whether you’d both kill in the coalition and make it 2/3 to hit scum today

[DonCorleone]

Okay pooky, sure

I’m waiting for aldus to turn up and give thoughts and then I’m voting you, you can self hammer if you like

[DonCorleone]

I’m waiting for aldus to turn up and give thoughts and then I’m voting you, you can self hammer if you like

I should've just self-hammered yesterday

Why self hammer yesterday when it buys you a mislynch and a NK if you don’t self hammer?

[DonCorleone]

lol if I were scum I’d have just taken your lynch yesterday as a freebie and then lynched clover off the back of it today

[DonCorleone]

as I genuinely think thinking I'm scum here is a bit ridiculous at this point

This is bullshit if pooky is town

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: pooky

[DonCorleone]

I mean, I could unvote, but I’d rather just lynch pooky

[DonCorleone]

First we lynch pooky

If town, re-evaluate

If scum, lynch wug

[DonCorleone]

Jesús H Christ, can we lynch pooky already

[DonCorleone]

Execute*

[DonCorleone]

We exe pooky to resolve the slot and see if scum were fighting for clover as a CW or if scum were very comfortable with competing wagons on town EoD1, and we go from there

[DonCorleone]

Yes it’s harder if pooky flips town because then we don’t basically lynch klick by default and we really have to think about it but if pooky flips scum which is still *very likely* then executing wug tomorrow is prob just GG

[DonCorleone]

We don’t lose because of a pooky townflip, what are you saying lmao, we go to a 50:50 lylo which is the same as a 3p lylo ie better than 5p lylo, and we’re prob not in lylo either way

If we flip klick, and he’s green, that’s like the worst possible outcome in any scenario where pooky is town because then he’s this awful lynchbait slot who’s up against scum!you. Whereas if pooky red flips, we lynch off coalition the next day, and then we have a tough 3p lylo if the game isn’t over by then.

If I thought pooky was likely to greenflip, I’d reconsider, but rn I think you pushing for klick may be scum indicative for you bc a scum!pooky would be really bad for you

[DonCorleone]

Spoiler:

Either heal me or towncase clover @koba

Klick swap me for clover

oh i didnt even know the deadline was for day 1 - thought it was just for coalition picking oops

HEAL: clover

HURT: DC
HEAL: clover

This progression does not make sense to me

Doesn’t have to, but the logic is:

I wanted to be swapped for clover because he was my weakest TR who was in at that point (I mean obviously I was wrong on who should have been swapped for me) but like klick and koba were being totally intransigent on putting me in, and while I thought that clover was the least likely town I still though he was town so I figured I’d just hammer it

May have been slightly overconfident from having successfully picked a winning coalition while reading two past games without spoilers, but I think being in this one threw me off a bit plus, honestly, the PL is just weaker here and so there wasn’t as much readable content that came out from here (like koba/votato were just shitslots for sorting) and that also made it a lot harder

[DonCorleone]

I had time today and reread because I thought pooky’s posts here were towny? I feel like I already explained this

DC what changed from this?

- Dumber

Uh, clover flipped green? Duh doy

[DonCorleone]

Well, living up to your head’s name then I see

[DonCorleone]

(I don’t actually think that I just couldn’t pass up the opportunity)

[DonCorleone]

Clover flipped green and that wagon situation felt like they were directly contesting hard against one another (normally a sign of scum having vested interest in one wagon)

Therefore, pooky probably scum and clover the wagon that scum were very invested in keeping alive to save him

Correspondingly, klick probably town for pushing pooky like that as idk if scum would hardbus there

[DonCorleone]

It didn’t feel like there were two town wagons where scum were just tacitly supporting both and letting them play out, but that’s a possibility — if it is, I strongly suspect 1 scum on each wagon

I think it would be odd scum behaviour to just say “yeah let’s both hard defend this one townie and push the other one together to get their mislynch off”

I mean, not impossible, but I just see scum being more likely to go “oh hey, great, competing town wagons, if we play this right one of them definitely gets lynched and the focus stays off us”

But like I said, all of that is dependent on it not being the still simpler case of it just being that town!clover was a wagon scum really wanted because of pooky!scum being the alternative flip

[DonCorleone]

Fun fact, I was writing that before pooky asked and as it turns out my natural thought development was the perfect answer to that question!

[DonCorleone]

Therefore, pooky probably scum and clover the wagon that scum were very invested in keeping alive to save him

The people who gave me these vibes were Klick and Aldu. They both felt like their push on their respective wagon was stronger than their reasons warranted.

What are you even saying bruh

Why would scum!klick or scum!aldus (and especially both of them) be so invested in working super obviously together to lynch one townie over the other townie

It makes like 0 sense

[DonCorleone]

You realise that I’m saying that in a world of scum!pooky scum would really want to keep clover!wagon going to save pooky right? And that klick/aldus were both hard against clover!wagon?

[DonCorleone]

It didn’t feel like there were two town wagons where scum were just tacitly supporting both and letting them play out, but that’s a possibility — if it is, I strongly suspect 1 scum on each wagon

I see what you're saying, and I kind of got those feelings too reading through, but the problem is that I think that Pooky reacted in a townie fashion and that Klick's push felt over-confident and somewhat fake.

As did Aldu's.

Right but again, why do that? What’s the benefit to scum?

Inv4 “to make us have this argument!” Because I don’t think I’ve ever actually read a scum PT where that was the basis of their play

[DonCorleone]

Well, broad wifom sure, I’ve seen that, but mostly scum are acting with some sort of intentionality and that’s very specific intentionality — that of “mislynch pooky” and idk why they would both choose to focus on that so hard when there was a juicy clover wagon there for the taking that either could easily have switched to by the end claiming deadline pressure and the need for a lynch

[DonCorleone]

do you really feel like scum was working very hard to get Clover wagon to go first rather than Pooky wagon? Like the entire last day was leaning towards me being lynched instead of clover - it was 4-3 until you flipped in the last 5 hours.

I mean you and wug seemed pretty committed to it yeah

[DonCorleone]

scum want 2 townies to fight and have the viable wagons on day 1 be both townie wagons because it sets up 2 mis-executes in a row.

In which case scum would be flying relatively UTR and trying to encourage conflict between you and clover, not hard pushing for one over the other

[DonCorleone]

DnD you just feel kinda scummy. Like either way you feel scummy here and that makes me feel less confident on reading you either way bc I think I might start to confbias

But like if pooky!town you look TMIy and like you’re using today to set up for a fight with klick tomorrow (by pre-empting him in the 1v1)

And if pooky!scum then idk why you’re not seeing what’s obvious to most everyone else and are trying so hard to fuck up the day

I mean it’s probably less of an issue in the second case because we still have 1 mislynch left but overall it’s just making your slot harder to read

[DonCorleone]

Therefore, pooky probably scum and clover the wagon that scum were very invested in keeping alive to save him

OK
So who exactly were the people that were pushing really hard for clover at that point?

POOKY and WUG

Are you reading or what?

[DonCorleone]

and idk why they would both choose to focus on that so hard when there was a juicy clover wagon there for the taking that either could easily have switched to by the end claiming deadline pressure and the need for a lynch

Also I don't think that Klick could have switched to Clover (even with the deadline looming) given his trajectory on him until that point

Sure he could have, deadline justifies all

[DonCorleone]

Like if it’s not lylo and the day is one minute away from ending in no lynch you should self so town has that info on you

I once stalled out a game as scum bc my partner was fakeclaiming against the real PR and the wagons were tied with me deciding

And the TPR said “I will self if we get too close to deadline so you know that <my partner> is scum”

And I then hammered them under the weak justification that “ehh I didn’t know what to do and I started town reading <my partner> for how they approached this and I had to hammer(!)” and then went on to win the game

So klick totally could have hammered there as well as aldus, is my point, and no-one would have batted much if an eyelid. It makes more sense they wouldn’t compromise because they were genuinely that committed on their pooky!scumreads

[DonCorleone]

And picking a massive fight over whether pooky is town here is silly because if we're scum we'd inevitably need to have a 1v1 with klick tomorrow anyways. Like it's inevitable. We could just take the easy pooky mislynch, support it, and tomorrow be like 'oh whoops shouldn't have listened to you guys everyone vote:klick'

Yes, it’s obviously inevitable which means why is klick not bothering to set up for that fight at all? Whereas if you /know/ pooky is town then you pocketing him (or trying to) by defending him and already starting work on a klick!scum narrative makes sense to me

[DonCorleone]

If anyone did pushing besides me, it was you.

Wug made an effort to get me onboard with clover instead of going to klick or anything and was generally supporting you and advocating in your favour

[DonCorleone]

Please vote Pooky DC. I will absolutely BoP it if it's wrong.

Klick would you still do this?

Do you not see how you posting stuff like this looks scummy to me?

[DonCorleone]

If Klick or Aldus are scum why would they hammer Clover - they're much better off with a NL on D1 than getting closer to a resolution on Clover-Pooky

That doesn’t change the fact that their whole decision to just hard push you together is weird and doesn’t make sense

[DonCorleone]

Who do you think we should be lynching today anyway pooky?

[DonCorleone]

If Klick or Aldus are scum why would they hammer Clover - they're much better off with a NL on D1 than getting closer to a resolution on Clover-Pooky

That doesn’t change the fact that their whole decision to just hard push you together is weird and doesn’t make sense

Is the goal of the scum not to lynch townies?

This is vapid and I think you probably know that

[DonCorleone]

If anyone did pushing besides me, it was you.

Wug made an effort to get me onboard with clover instead of going to klick or anything and was generally supporting you and advocating in your favour

I don't think Wug tried very hard - your effort was much more responsible for the wagon flip.

Besides Wug doesn't even make sense as my partner - I was planning on getting her lynched initially with Koba back when the Coalition first failed.

Yeah but I know my own alignment, duh doy

[DonCorleone]

So many duh doys, such little time

[DonCorleone]

Wtf is happening here am I just being gaslighted here by the actual scumteam

[DonCorleone]

Or wug is just ineffectual scum

[DonCorleone]

Where the fuck is everyone else, can I have a conversation with someone who isn’t off their fucking nut and trying to convince me that lynching anyone other than pooky today makes sense

[DonCorleone]

*yawn*

[DonCorleone]

I still don't get why Pooky is the default lynch today

Because if pooky!scum then cool we lynched scum

And if pooky!town then that means it wasn’t what it looks like D1 (town v scum wagons) but it was instead (TvT wagons) and key moments need to be looked at again with that in mind

And bc if pooky!town and we lynch town today then there is no fucking way we’re winning with the shitshow of wifom that trying to sort pooky tomorrow will be

[DonCorleone]

Am I speaking English? Do the words coming out of my mouth have meaning? Is everyone else just seeing

ooble garble flurgle gooble

and replying with broadly being same and my brain is translating the

garble eeble flagooble garble

into words in English and that’s why everything sounds so fucking insane?

Am I legitimately just being gaslighted rn? What the actual fuck?

[DonCorleone]

THE BIT WHERE YOU’RE STILL ARGUING THAT WE SHOULDN’T EXECUTE POOKY

[DonCorleone]

Jesús Christ

Where is a wall that I can put my face through

[DonCorleone]

When you facepalm so hard you break a wall

[DonCorleone]

What’s that meme where the guy literally bursts his hand out the back of his skull because he facepalms so hard

That’s me for the last like 20 minutes

[DonCorleone]

Datisi why don’t I have a PT to post these thoughts so you can evilly laugh in mod PT at me having a mild breakdown

[DonCorleone]

DC I think you're feeling a little too emotionally invested - can you take a step back and try to think through this for a second.

Let's say you're RIGHT about me/DnD being scumteam trying to gaslight you right now.

Why would we be openly doing this to you right now? Wouldn't it make way more sense for DnD to join rest of town to throw me off a bridge and try to win in endgame rather than sticking his neck out like this?

I mean what's our plan? Gaslight you and another townie into voting klick - he dies flips town - then tommorrow we wake up with DnD/Me alive grinning like idiots and guaranteed to get lynched? What type of play is that?

In any world where you’re scum and we mislynch today on klick, we’re going to a 3p lylo of (DnD, wug, aldus)

Maybe me instead of aldus because if there’s anything that this conversation is proving it’s that god’s light does not smile upon this game

[DonCorleone]

Oh, and a (wug, DnD, aldus) lylo is like the worst possible thing in the game and I think town loses

So no, I have no interest in going there if avoidable

Which it totally is

[DonCorleone]

you can't actually believe DnD and I are scum who decided to kill Koba-Town then lynch Klick-Town in order to set up that guaranteed scum lynch on D3.

This is like, the exact sort of dumbshit that scum do because they think it’s clever

And I can immediately think of two games off the top of my head where scum have done it (but not outing because I don’t wanna out my main)

[DonCorleone]

1365

[DonCorleone]

I tagged it bc I wanted to know what post you were talking about and you didn’t use post tags

[DonCorleone]

Ah sorry about that

Do you think that Klick's reading of that post makes sense though? Or seems like a reasonable explanation?

- Dumber

Thinking

[DonCorleone]

I think there’s at least one scum in (klick, wug, DnD) but if it’s wug I think it’s probably not pooky

[DonCorleone]

DC I would really appreciate it if you can engage with me on why you think Klick is right on his Pooky scumread here

- Dumber

[DonCorleone]

A fairly key moment seems to me to be the immediate rush on koba after coalition fail that I spearheaded. Koba went to L-1 very quickly and we now know that he was town. The 4 people who voted there were (me, klick, wug, sleeper)

If I deduct myself that leaves (klick, wug, sleeper)

But what was pooky doing at this point? Pushing for a wug!flip which is also how he started the day

I don’t think it makes sense for him to just lolbus his partner the second after the coalition fails, meaning that if wug is scum on that wagon, it’s with one of (klick, sleeper/DnD)

[DonCorleone]

cmon read wug iso and tell me that doesn't look like a scum

I don’t think pooky makes a push like this on his scumbuddy knowing that it clears 3 people and focuses all attention inside the coalition where he’s not the strongest slot

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: klick

[DonCorleone]

UNVOTE:

But consider me spiritually on klick

[DonCorleone]

DC from my perspective this is now the second time you're whimsically choosing a terrible wagon on a whim and contradicting the thoughts you posted not very long before pushing said wagon. Explain your thoughts.

I already did, you just don’t like the explanation

I think scum is in (you, wug, DnD) because of how the koba wagon came up

I disagree that pooky was just lolbussing wug because he thought it would gain no traction-> therefore (pooky, wug) team is out

If (pooky, wug) is not a possible team, it is inherent that (you, DnD) contains a scum

I think DnD is much townier than you are and I felt like they were genuinely trying to solve today in their massive argument with me, the exception being in the case that they’re exactly scum with pooky

[DonCorleone]

so why would we kill Chemist if me/DnD are scum on coalition? Killing Chemist eliminates our own room to survive.

Because it implies that there is only one scum in coalition for exactly that reason

It’s wifom

[DonCorleone]

I disagree that pooky was just lolbussing wug because he thought it would gain no traction

Why

Because I don’t think scum tend to just lolbus their partners, pooky *overall* doesn’t give me the impression that he’d fit into the small subsection who would, koba (at the time still a high influence slot) also wanted to lynch wug outside of the coalition meaning it was more viable, wug was so widely scumread that it was plausible that there might be enough support for it which is why I took such an incredibly strong “we’re never fucking lynching outside of coalition until we have a scumflip” stance on it

[DonCorleone]

We’re not ever lynching out of the coalition until scum flips inside the coalition

This was the third post after the coalition failed, Don

I misremembered the order, whatever

Point still holds that unless pooky thought I was able to control the entire game that’s not a reason to think we would necessarily not lynch off coalition

And idk why pooky would necessarily foresee that I would become a higher influence slot than koba very quickly when it was koba who actively kept me off the coalition

[DonCorleone]

I doubt I make lylo

[DonCorleone]

I mean, maybe, but definitely not if you’re scum

If it is pooky!scum then maybe, but I doubt scum!DnD or scum!wug would bring me > aldus

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: klick

Hah

- Dumber

[DonCorleone]

if that was the plan why is DnD-ScumBuddy going guns out trying to keep me alive?

Yeah maybe I'm biased but I think pooky/DnD is a bizarre take because what on earth am I even doing right now if he's my partner beyond inextricably tying myself to him so that whenever one or the other of us flips scum (and at least one of us will have to by virtue of both being in the coalition), the other person is just next

- Dumber

This is also wifom

I could see you doing it seeing as you’re clearly a strong player and you could potentially sway aldus/deimos/me into voting wug in 3p > you based on this exact logic

[DonCorleone]

It's not a smart play. If we're both in coalition, and even we vote out Klick today, one of us by definition is going to be voted out tomorrow.

Instead of going out of my way to create unfavorable associatives I could just start setting up the bussing associatives early by calling for Pooky's head today.

- Dumber

It’s still not an awful position to be in as scum where you’re hard linked together but everyone is going “would they really do that as scum” especially when wug would look like such a viable partner for pooky

[DonCorleone]

And realistically I think pooky is always getting voted over you tomorrow if klick flips town

[DonCorleone]

Instead of going out of my way to create unfavorable associatives I could just start setting up the bussing associatives early by calling for Pooky's head today.

I mean this is what I’d do most of the time but as you are an anon hydra idk if you would too, or if you’re a player who’d go for the big brain of hard defending and then playing the wifom game

[DonCorleone]

Who in the shit are you

I feel like I’ve played with you before on my main but I can’t put my finger on who you feel like

[DonCorleone]

DC do you remember why you were leaning scum on me at the beginning of the game?

Does it matter?

[DonCorleone]

I mean, I do, but why is it important

[DonCorleone]

@DC: Why do you find Klick scummier than Pooky? Is it because of Pooky's interaction with the Koba wagon? I'd like to point out that Pooky had already changed his read on Koba to town prior to Koba reaching E-1, thus a hammer would have been suspicious.

I just don't understand why you've changed your mind on Pooky vs Klick when you were so adamant earlier that eliminating Pooky was the correct decision today.

Right, only... why change his mind on it when I entered the post-coalition fail phase pushing koba and all he had to do was stay sceptical to get a hammer off and mis-exe.

Do you disagree that there was probably a scum on the koba wagon? If there was, and your answer is “it was wug” why does pooky decide to start off the day lolbussing his partner?

[DonCorleone]

I guess it's unlikely you'd give me an answer that changes my read on you, so no, it doesn't matter that much.

Thought not. But it was you calling for forming a townbloc right at the beginning — I think townblocs are great when they form naturally but I have a strong suspicion of anyone trying to force one to form, and that goes double for a setup like this

[DonCorleone]

VOTE: klick

Lord help me if I’m wrong and it’s (DnD, pooky) and DnD absolutely worked a number on me

[DonCorleone]

What do we think about this:

viewtopic.php?t=83486&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

[DonCorleone]

Interesting— you think it looks similar to his play here? I thought it looked p different

[DonCorleone]

Neither of the DnD heads is clidd I’m pretty sure

Clidd has like a pretty specific speech pattern that I think is a result of English being his second language, and that hasn’t been present at all in either head’s posting

However, clearly someone familiar with Clidd given the Sherlock reference

[DonCorleone]

The only people I think could be partners to DnD are you and pooky

[DonCorleone]

Err idk maybe like the fucking 8 pages of arguing between us?

[DonCorleone]

Specifically with the dumber head

[DonCorleone]

Why not Aldus?

Maybe aldus too

Idk they feel like they’re weirdly uncoordinated for that though, like they’re both pushing such different angles and that would require aldus having hard pocketed klick and DnD having hard pocketed me and while I could believe the latter maybe, I feel like it’s more klick pocketing aldus than the other way round if that’s what has happened there

[DonCorleone]

For the record I think you + DnD are probably my two top TRs but just like if I am totally wrong this game then I don’t see any reason why you couldn’t be aligned

That make sense?

[DonCorleone]

Scum on Koba's wagon was most likely you or D&D.

Why tho?

[DonCorleone]

Also, aldus, why don’t you think wug was the scum on koba!wagon?

[DonCorleone]

How do you think you would have entered today if you were scum? like what would your play be here?

[DonCorleone]

and Aldus/DC/Wug

Not quite right cause there's one more NK first. It'd be another 1v1

You were right: if one scum in coalition is fired, it'll very likely be the town in the coalition that's killed.

-Dumbass

This is assuming klick flips scum right? In which case I agree

If klick flips town idk where I’d expect the NK to fall (like outside if obviously the preference for scum, but I actually don’t think pooky outing as scum would be against wincon as it would give scum 2 NKs and total control over the 3p lylo)

[DonCorleone]

So if Klick scum then Aldus -> Wug for win
If Klick town then it's pretty much exactly Pooky/D&D. Neither of these players have good teammates other than each other

Apart from you and DnD but let’s not think about that

[DonCorleone]

Honestly if it is that then I’m not even mad because I think you played the shit out of this day phase

[DonCorleone]

Also I agree that it klick!scum then the partner is aldus or wug in almost all cases

[DonCorleone]

Okay, or, and hear me out here, you could hammer now unless you think someone is likely to convince you otherwise and we can see the flip instead of having to wait for hours in anticipation

[DonCorleone]

That’s lowkey a slightly weird comment DnD

[DonCorleone]

What could klick say that would change your mind on him when you’ve spent *literally the entire day* defusing pooky wagon in order to get klick to a position of viability?

[DonCorleone]

Aren't you the one saying Pooky/Wug doesn't make much sense as a scumteam?

Like if you start with the premise that Pooky is scum then his most logical partners are either you or D&D.

Right, I was and still am but idk why you think that necessarily

Why is it obviously me or DnD?