Large Normal 228: Bananas - Game Over

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: SirCakez

The subtext is disturbing.

[Black Ranger]

Games are usually slow until everyone jumps in.

[Black Ranger]

But I suppose we're only missing two people that matter.

Hm

[Black Ranger]

UNVOTE: Wake. VOTE: BlackRanger. I don't like his last two posts. They scream to me, "Hey, I exist, bye!" Also, he didn't continue the story.

Your story is fucking stupid and the only reason why I didn't give an opinion on it sooner was because it was -EV to do so.

[Black Ranger]

1. Your story gives scum a means of coasting through the game all under the guise of "it's all in good fun"!

2. Calling it out prematurely denies information.

3. Calling ME out on not continuing the story means you surely don't care about using this story as a means of finding coasting scum.

[Black Ranger]

More votes on osuka, please and thank you friends.

Also dang mod, that 4xBump Combo. Never in all my years have I seen such a daring maneuver.

Convincing case

VOTE: osuka

[Black Ranger]

I'm not on tilt. I'm emotionally turbulent. You're going to get a fucking f bomb every few posts. Happens.

[Black Ranger]

But I suppose we're only missing two people that matter.

Hm

Who? And why do they matter?

Tchill and Saudade. Titus was the third player not in the game, but she's conftown and wasn't necessary to break ourselves out of RVS.

1. Why do you think this?
2. Does it? Why?
3. I don't think that was their aim. I believe they cleared it up but it seemed fairly easy to see early on what they were trying to do, which was generate content.

1. Basic sensibility.
2. Sure. Once you announce a tell you can't accurately use it again, either because scum will now avoid the trap or they will

purposely

fall into it as a means of subversion. It wouldn't be useless, but it now becomes something in the realm of "not a singular reason you should be applying against someone".

This has dissonance with your 54 and previous posts. The reason why is you deliberately take the game out of RVS with what you say, and then put us back in with an RVS vote.

What was your intent with driving for this? .

osuka had 2 votes, so with Luciano's vote change onto me that wagon overtook wake. I wanted responses to the osuka wagon. RVS was already declining:

Hah, my plan to pre-emptively OMGUS has succeeded after all!

What do you hope to accomplish with said plan

All I really hoped to accomplish was entertaining myself, but your weirdly oversensitive response is an unexpected bonus.

Spoiler: Story

So there I was, eating a banana in my living room. I was just hanging out and having a good time, but then Bob walked in. I instantly lost my appetite when I saw what he was wearing.

"Bob," I sputtered, "how did you find my old bananakini?!"

This is... really, really slow to kick off.

@osuka

Want to talk about your vote on me? No one else wants to talk about anything, so you might as well.

I really didn't like this series of posts because

this

was threatening to take us out of RVS, and failing some miraculous series of events I always view these types of posts with suspicion. I might be wrong - but scum

love

getting out of RVS so they can claim they did something.

[Black Ranger]

so realtalk, did anyone else just like... not read the whole bob/osuka thing? show of hands?

I read it but it was less like comprehension and more like scrolling.

This part is pretty good

oh those posts at that time is certianly worth a little read. I can understand not wanting to read osuka posts as it was mostly nonsenses although informative.

People like that are just to easy to mess, was quite fun.

It made me think about bob getting up in osuka's face about swearing at the beginning of the argument. It was a weird comment to make so seeing that bob is intentionally putting the screws here seems to track. Getting some bad bitch vibes out of bob and this runs against how he scumplayed in the wake large where he hanged around in the background claiming to do work without putting himself into an argument (chiefly when he wanted to see what alignment garmr vs me was, he didn't seem invested at all in it and that pinged me in game).

I didn't like this post though:

So lucky do you think ranger is scum for calling out your posts reagrding your story. Or do you think he is town simply making a bad push

And it should be obvious why. I didn't have any sort of push by the time Luciano voted me. It's completely ignoring the concept of causality here. Now if you want scum to revise their story and say, "yeah that's why I voted him!" That's optimistic but we have Luciano's response here:

UNVOTE: Wake. VOTE: BlackRanger.

I don't like his last two posts. They scream to me, "Hey, I exist, bye!"

Also, he didn't continue the story.

My vote is for the middle two sentences here. It has nothing to do with him being a poopyhead funsucker extraordinaire.

But Bob continues his line of reasoning here:

@drew regarding question pointed at post 60. The question was to ask what lucky thought of blacks push. I made no inference on rangers push my self. A question that was intended to dig out luckys reasoning for his scum read of black

A question lucky just answered with fluff.

I personaly doubt rangers push comes from scum.

And do find it a bit suspect that lucky cant come up with reason as to why he thinks rangers push comes from scum

corrected. vestigial word got left in

I feel like he couldn't have missed 88 even though he was going aggro on osuka, because he circled back to Luciano at 88. This is another thing that pinged me from bob from the wake large. He had one tool in the toolbox and kept using it.

Bob if you're deliberately trying to piss off Luciano with this post, move on.

[Black Ranger]

Cakez' answer to me in 141 is good, leaning town there.

I disagree on cakez town but the slot self resolves so either I get there or he gets out.

[Black Ranger]

...

question 3 is a misrep that you insist on. the initial vote really wasn't based on anything substantial (it was like "hoo wee you're tilted let me see if i can push your buttons further"), given we don't even have 100 posts in this game yet - there _is_ nothing substantial for anyone to base anything off of. that's a pretty disgusting misrep though: how the fuck do you expect me to just sit here and take you saying "you voted the guy in rvs therefore you think none of what he's done comes from town"

to be more specific:

Why do you think this cant be town. AS by voting for him you are saying that town woudl never see that story as reason to vote.

this is fucking disgusting and now I do actually feel comfortable properly pushing a slot
VOTE: bob

I like osuka's response to bob in the 1v1 and I feel like it's perfectly fair to vote bob here because bob's doing that whole "ignoring casuality" thing because it's my understanding is that bob is insisting that I was pushing Luciano on the story business, which I did to the extent that I wanted to see if he would backtrack and revise his reason behind bringing it up. I never actually voted Luciano.

[Black Ranger]

Back to the story business:

The story itself was never intended to be game-relevant. It was intended to give people a reason to want to post in the game. Let's do things your way though, and go back to not posting.

This didn't really track considering Luciano got upset with me for not posting in a way he'd like. If his motive was getting people to vote he was well positioned on Wake. I

do

feel like scum would try to get more out of their play here and just tell me to fuck off instead of give up like this.

I'm here right now:

VOTE: fwogcarf

Pedit: Bob do you understand the sequence of events involving Luciano's vote on me and what exactly was my push? I think somebody said something like a mountain and an ant hill ITT the other day, and this is it.

[Black Ranger]

Listed and bolded what I wish to discuss:

a. I feel like you're stretching there. I agree it looked odd, but the intent seemed to be to get engagement with the game by making people post glib shit. I don't think you're misrepresenting of them but I don't agree with your assessment.
b. This pings me. Seems like you made a fuss, then got caught out, and back tracked in your behaviour.

If you're not going to ask me any questions then you're talking for an audience and should follow it up with a vote.

[Black Ranger]

Fenraiser is a slot I really like I think his analyses were really good even if im not sure of my stance on them.

Fwog has also been pretty towny imo and cakez's response to whatever he said is part of the reason im sheeping norwee here.

Fen's a much worse slot than Fwog imo. I'm not at town on fwog but I want to know what's going on in his head from posts 254-284.

VOTE: Fenraiser

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: SirCakez Dislike some of your posts.

I'm trending town on Cakez. I had the

impression

that he was leaning into a scumread on me. Word choice here matters, because his initial vote was weak but added reasons on later to stay there. It read more like kayfabe performed to see what happened.

Let's get Fen who is a sideshow bickering heel.

[Black Ranger]

Fenraiser is a slot I really like I think his analyses were really good even if im not sure of my stance on them.

Fwog has also been pretty towny imo and cakez's response to whatever he said is part of the reason im sheeping norwee here.

Fen's a much worse slot than Fwog imo. I'm not at town on fwog but I want to know what's going on in his head from posts 254-284.

VOTE: Fenraiser

interesting.. anything in particular pinging you from fen

There's

maybe

one thing that puts him at town and the rest of his content is hilariously scummy. I don't like how he's performing preflip and saying it's a "tinfoil" read when people defending me aren't being coy at all about their position.

The way he was encouraging Luciano to townhunt as a form of scumhunting (so PoE) is hilariously bad because this style of play is seldom used because you have to be IN the game to get every townie marked on the board. If you misuse townhunting you write off scum as town and you've consumed poison. Use both if you want, but 281 grosses me out.

[Black Ranger]

I'm saying that people are defending you Black Ranger for a weak reason being your aggressiveness being town-indicative when I think it could just be a personal playstyle or personality thing and therefore NAI.

Okay, but you still said myself/bob would be a tinfoil team when bob chainsawed for several pages. That isn't a tinfoil read. There's nothing that can get lost there so if you wanted to comment on it being spooky you could have noted it in the thread without using a fancy word. By saying tinfoil you're invoking a mafia term and I think you're misusing it to give the illusion that you're performing more work on the game than you are.

I have two incomplete games on this site.
Wake Large Normal 50P - Canceled, town, lynched day 2
Open 777 - town win, scum, repped in day 1 replaced after receiving too many prods on day 3

I'm not going to self meta. Do the work if you care to.

@BR

Going off from this, what do you think of Lucky's recent response?

I felt like he humored Drew too much with a giant post about why scumhunting is hard. Beyond that he gave a baseline of what I should expect from him and he's now married to that idea.

I think encouraging somebody to build a town bloc is pointless fluff and potentially malicious. A good way to build a bloc of townies is to lynch scum and realize it after the fact.

[Black Ranger]

I only have one vote. It’s on someone I believe is scum. So sue me that I can’t vote twice.

Secondly, the aggressive ‘fuck off arsehole’ vibe I’m getting from you amuses me.

If you wanted to continue to sort me you would have asked for feedback. If you're talking to the playerlist instead you're basically derailing your attempt to wagon Umlaut in the process. There's scum motive in keeping me as an acceptable discussion to have without furthering it yourself.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut, why is bob scum?

[Black Ranger]

I think Nahdia showing up would advance my position on multiple slots.

[Black Ranger]

The very first response Nahdia...

That's something I never see town say. Just dismissing the fact that you've been discovered skimming through the entire conversation with a comment like that will turn heads, especially mine. The naked vote was a reaction test, and I believe it paid off. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

Is there much behind this "meh" read?

[Black Ranger]

Town point for Fenraiser: brought up how people would allow a TvT to happen between bob and osuka. I think a scumflip on Nahdia says a lot for the alignment of these two.

[Black Ranger]

This is a sort of prodge post so if I get a prod in the next hour I won't exactly be upset by it

Anyone want to act in good faith and ask me something within the next hour so I don't have to read the last few pages and try to give a shit in order to produce content? It would be appreciated. You can just quote drew if you care about what he has to say but I'm writing off this slot as not making it to endgame.

[Black Ranger]

I guess you found my chainsaw

[Black Ranger]

Wake should just pick an iso and say whatever batshit insane thoughts come to mind even if they only make sense in isolation.

As it stands his slot is committing a classical scumtell of being at the bottom of the post count list. This is actually almost always scum unless the slot has made it clear they're town. Which he hasn't.

What's the argument for lynching fwogcarf in a nutshell?

The case on fwog is this post:

Does scum theater this early

why, are you scumreading them both?

Nope

But I will find out who came out of that exchange worse off.

Their scumread on Nahdia isn't legit. That's the case anyway. I'm not saying whether or not I agree with it yet.

I think their scumread on Nahdia is fine, but I was hoping they were holding their cards closer to their chest between the "meh read" to 'vote" posts I highlighted earlier, meaning they were hiding their progression on this slot to get reactions, as Nahda

had not posted in this time

. I think this is townie on part of fwog, because scum would have pulled the trigger sooner. I guess if fwog were to flip scum we'd have to see who was getting votes in this time but it seems like a waste of time to me right now.

But I will say that osuka wasn't a bad vote early and I skimmed the argument the first two times I read it too. If osuka is town, then encouraging votes onto osuka can be scummy, but I don't think it's a sole reason to make a case against someone. It's just an extra marker of confidence.

felt a bit uneasy about cakez townread on me but not sure what to make of the reasoning, null i guess.

This is legitimately terrible. You don't question townreads on your slot as town, unless you can make an argument against scum. Null reading someone for it is a waste of time and looks like busy work to give proof that they put a read on this slot on the board. Potential wolf team.

Haven't read the last few pages in a day I'll check whether Fen deserves to be voted.

[Black Ranger]

Happy birthday, Nahdia

Umlaut, why is bob scum?

I'm not particularly sure he's scum, I don't have any significant scumreads atm. But my vote is for the read-echoing that Osuka pointed out in 213 and beyond that just not having anything to townread them for.

I almost changed my vote to Norwegian with 281/291 but decided not to more or less randomly

Lol it is kind of funny how he used the same term.

I once found scum copying me that way. They denied it. I lynched them. Maybe they didn't consciously intend to do it, but I felt like on some level they were trying to look town and didn't remember what exactly they were copying when they went and tried to look town.

[Black Ranger]

BR gave three reasons why happy fun time story hour was scummy and then immetidately placed his vote somewhere else. (No fun allowed!) was rvs then, so whatever. but BR never came back to it.

I thought super happy fun story time hour was scummy only after Luciano poked me about it, because it became clear to me that it couldn't be used to scumhunt anymore, and if he intended to use it that way, he failed and invalidated it. I wanted him to explain his reasoning to see if he would claim he was doing something. He gave up. Scum would have been more likely to take a fight here. I did this in parallel to a vote on osuka, because my questioning of his intentions was enough, and my vote was more productive there.

@BR

Who is "encouraging somebody to build a town bloc" here?

Fen encouraging Luciano.



Felt like Umlaut talking Norwegian out of a Cakez tunnel was a good post. Osuka nailed it pg16 in his commentary on the Umlautposting.

[Black Ranger]

Lol it is kind of funny how he used the same term.

Who copied what from you exactly?

Bob copied Umlaut some 70 posts later. See the umlaut post that quotes the osuka post.

[Black Ranger]

That's something I never see town say. Just dismissing the fact that you've been discovered skimming through the entire conversation with a comment like that will turn heads, especially mine. The naked vote was a reaction test, and I believe it paid off. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

I don't buy this at all[/quote]

Is this a sole reason to scumread someone?

[Black Ranger]

The very first response Nahdia...

That's something I never see town say. Just dismissing the fact that you've been discovered skimming through the entire conversation with a comment like that will turn heads, especially mine. The naked vote was a reaction test, and I believe it paid off. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

I don't buy this at all

Is this a sole reason to scumread someone? EBWOP

[Black Ranger]

I'd want Drew over Bob over Cakez but I also have zero desire to engage the Drew slot

Just putting that out there before I do this

VOTE: Drew

[Black Ranger]

I have talked about Black Ranger more than just page 2. I find his tone and posts to be very overworked and fake-sounding, this started from that ridiculous over-aggression he had early on.

There's posts where I've looked back and realized I made no sense at all in. Especially when I made an interjection that made it seem like I was speaking to the contrary of the first remark I had just made when I really ended up saying something like ", but ..." as if I were continuing the conversation - you know - verbally, where the tone would clue in that I wasn't weighing the two statements, but instead putting prose before hoes.

I'll try to find some.

This didn't really track considering Luciano got upset with me for not posting in a way he'd like. If his motive was getting people to vote he was well positioned on Wake. I

do

feel like scum would try to get more out of their play here and just tell me to fuck off instead of give up like this.

I meant to say "this

wouldn't

track

if

(the quote within the quote) was game relevant" so therefore yada yada I felt like scum would fight me on it rather than give up. I had the post I was replying to buffered in my head and never cleared it because on some level I just don't give a shit about any of you and want you to suffer through my posts.

I think their scumread on Nahdia is fine, but I was hoping they were holding their cards closer to their chest between the "meh read" to 'vote" posts I highlighted earlier, meaning they were hiding their progression on this slot to get reactions, as Nahda

had not posted in this time

. I think this is townie on part of fwog, because scum would have pulled the trigger sooner. I guess if fwog were to flip scum we'd have to see who was getting votes in this time but it seems like a waste of time to me right now.

Meant to say "as I was hoping"

Then there was that dealeo with "who is encouraging who to build townblocs"

I do have games on this site. Two of them I shared in my iso. If you think my tone is off, do the work.

[Black Ranger]

The very first response Nahdia...

That's something I never see town say. Just dismissing the fact that you've been discovered skimming through the entire conversation with a comment like that will turn heads, especially mine. The naked vote was a reaction test, and I believe it paid off. I'm keeping my vote where it is.

I don't buy this at all

Is this a sole reason to scumread someone? EBWOP

No I SR fwog for other stuff.

Your ISO isn't explaining it.

Move on or save us from the big bad fwog slot from endgaming us, please.

[Black Ranger]

I think we should leave setup spec to Titus.

Titus: how do you feel about Cakez through meta? Have they leveled up their scumgame lately? I recall that they lurk to avoid making the inevitable slip which they then immediately give up on the game over. I feel some presence from Cakez here.

[Black Ranger]

@Black Ranger - I would like to hear your thoughts on the Nor slot.

I'm not catching the slip in 369. Yeah scum get to keep playing and can be indifferent to what phase they're in, but even town dislike nightless despite it being easier to play... As it turns out, having a day off from mafia is a sweet deal. The only thing I'd criticize him for is the weak language ("suggest") which makes his confidence seem to plummet - kind of like scum fabricating a post and going full robot mode.

I don't see what Puppy is distracting from. The only other major wagon that has movement (I'm defining fwog as having no movement) is bob.

Norwegian is probably one of the townier slots in the game rn. The Cakez tunnel isn't incredibly unfakeable but Cakez was a good push just to see if they'd fall apart.

I’m not really seeing that many convincing arguments yet and that’s probably why i can’t pay much attention to all that’s going on. I’m keeping my vote on Cakez and suggest we lynch there. But all in all i’d jusy like to end day 1 so discussion maybe will have more meaning to me.

You can be unconvinced and wanting to see better arguments, or you can be looking to end the day, but you can't be both. That's not a town mindset at all.

That doesn't make sense. Are you just making out the ever present "town mindset" to be whatever you want it to be?

This interaction is also good.

[Black Ranger]

Just in case I fuck up and blank vote to consolidate later today:

because nahdia's bracket reads are popular this game apparently. i'm of no relation.

{Fwog, Osuka, Norwegian}
{Manatee, Puppy, Cakez}
{Fenraiser, Nahdia, bob}
{Umlaut, Drew}
{Wake}

town townlean scumlean scum waketier

Will compromise anyone outside of the townie 6.

Dislike Drew, Umlaut and bob overusing the word ping. I started noticing it when I first "pinged" Drew that apparently everything pings drew. Then suddenly everything pings bob. Umlaut has been enjoying calling things reachy in one liners. It's just lazy and I don't see Drew's initial case on Umlaut (above post) as being real. Add to the fact that I felt like Umlaut was trying to launch us out of RVS by page two I'd like to mercy kill these two slots. I could probably come up with something more compelling but this is where I'm at without making a wall.

[Black Ranger]

If only because we need improved votes, sure.

VOTE: bob

Bob needs to get off Manatee. Whoever is still on fwog should be put on notice.

[Black Ranger]

If only because we need improved votes, sure.

VOTE: bob

Bob needs to get off Manatee. Whoever is still on fwog should be put on notice.

Explain why you dont want mantee pressured. Have you looked at his posts

townread fwog, asked me to elaborate my scumread on a tr of his (fen), has tried to keep me posting twice over so far

oh my vote remains on cakez because I think most of his ISO has been nonsense and his reaction to votes on him has not been good esp the thing I pointed out earlier with twisting words

his sr on cakez is fine i just feel like cakez doesn't look for what would be a fight with me as scum. i can see cakez' push in a town light too.

I

really

dislike your "how are your posts not as bad as cakez" push onto Manatee. That's some gaslighting shit.

[Black Ranger]

Not everyone needs 60 posts day 1.

Let's see

we have wake
puppy doesn't really count because their pred did ok, only started flaking their last day
manatee
then there's drew who isn't much below nahdia

well, they're not all scum. if we want to talk about absences then yes it's troubling that we have people squatting on a dead wagon.

[Black Ranger]

tell me then what are mantees reads. And why do you think he has them

Let me tell you, that answer could fit in one to two sentances

I don't think he's working counter to a town agenda. His reads gel so far. If he wanted to look super townie he should be vanitying and having fake confidence, but instead he's sort of stitching himself to norwegian which doesn't bother me at all rn.

[Black Ranger]

Cakez you dont get to.sr fwog for the poat he made refusing to go into nahdia before she came back to the thread

He went more into it later. How is the push bad?

[Black Ranger]

im here

[Black Ranger]

i still don't understand the crumbs and if the encryption is real and not a meme i'm just going to assume the slot is confscum and reread the game with that perspective

plus side it means titus gets to live through the night

UNVOTE:

[Black Ranger]

VOTE: Nahdia

This is the vote for the day.

[Black Ranger]

Nahdia never gave an opinion on Bob when they said they would reread them, but gave one for Drew. Then when Bob reaches the breaking point she dodges having to do anything with the claim.

Also-

why, are you scumreading them both?

Nope

But I will find out who came out of that exchange worse off.

Clearly you think one of me or osuka is scum otherwise. You wouldnt have said worse off thus you think one of us is scum.

As you apear to have all ready ruled out that its tvt

Now i think osuka is scum and osuka is being king of omgus.

But what do you think. There is no sitting on the fence in a mafia game. Unless you want to spend a month sitting awkwardly.

Scratch the whole "if nahdia ends up scum osuka vs bob was a tvt". Bob is very happy to point it out when he shouldn't know that Nahdia is disinterested.

[Black Ranger]

My mistake, he was talking to fwog there.

Less confidence in the read now.

But I still dislike how he was pushing fwog who was pushing Nahdia and her omission.

[Black Ranger]

If you're going this far up my townreads you should remove me from the game because it isn't going to get any easier from here on out.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut is town on bob scumflip.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut is town on bob scumflip.

Do you really bet on bob scum with that doc claim?

Sure. With an IC a doc claim is now a guarantee to escape rope. Crumbs shouldn't require encryption. That's pure scumfuel. By doing so and disguising it as nonsense (I'm not convinced the "encryption" isn't nonsense) you can now use it for anything, or nothing.

[Black Ranger]

I don't understand this post. Like, I'm not following what you mean understand. Can you clarify?

I'm telling Titus that I intend to be a bigger pain in the ass.

[Black Ranger]

How exactly did I notice his crumbs and immediately vote him if his crumb was way back in the 100s?

[Black Ranger]

Also if I was scum I'd just night kill somebody I thought was a doc. I wouldn't push them. Probably see how to get you as a free vote for me to use.

I'm a lot more sneaky than coercing claims which is boring.

[Black Ranger]

Probably claim if you're gonna duck out or self if you're scum

[Black Ranger]

I know it's most likely too late for this, but can I get a quick show of hands on who would lynch Drew?

Try to hide the scum pm next time.

[Black Ranger]

Try to hide the scum pm next time.

Wow, you are already succeeding at being a bigger pain in the ass! Way to follow through.

Where was this willingness to lynch drew when it mattered? Because some end of day show that you would

totally lynch Drew guys

doesn't mean shit to anyone.

[Black Ranger]

I don't want this lynch but I would still do it, if the alternative is you, manatee or no lynch, what would do you, drew?

[Black Ranger]

And a wagon on you wasn't even plausible a few pages ago. A repeat of these voters appearing won't happen for Norwegian.

[Black Ranger]

@Mod: however useless it is my vote has been on Nahdia for several pages

[Black Ranger]

Where was this willingness to lynch drew when it mattered? Because some end of day show that you would

totally lynch Drew guys

doesn't mean shit to anyone.

Do you think Manatee is scum, or do you think my brilliant scumplay here is to actively draw attention to myself in order to dismantle a wagon on town at the end of the day?

No I quite literally believed you and Drew were scum. I'm still running the calculations.

[Black Ranger]

If Bob claims what I think he claims......this isn't good.

UNVOTE:

Oh wow lots happened

Very insightful

Ofc

This "vote" isn't good, or our situation isn't?

Here's some setup spec I didn't want to get into: at 3:11 the doc only needs to make

one

save to be considered successful. Usually this amount would be

two

saves.

Let's call Titus being given a free pass to day 2 a half save.

All of this changes at 10:4 (back to two saves for an extra day). 10:4 is the more probable case, because you know... 14p is weird and we have an IC.

[Black Ranger]

The above also assumes we have a doc btw.

[Black Ranger]

Thus, I didn't want the lynch in the first place. Look how fast their and my wagon has gathered momentum. Yet we got nowhere on other wagons. What does that tell you?

What I mean by this is I feel there were better options listed earlier that were tellingly overlooked.

Why we have not tried to start a wagon on Nadhia is beyond me. There's more merit there than in Manatee.

I'm just going to move on from this point, because nobody actually writes "I don't want to lynch because I'm not convinced it is a good one" without meaning "I don't want this lynch because I'm not convinced it is a good one" or "I don't want to lynch Manatee because I'm not convinced it is a good one". Our reactions were different but I'm reading less into it because it's easier if you're just scum.

[Black Ranger]

No. I don't want to lynch because I see no evidence suggesting it is a good one.

I'm not throwing shade on the lynch. I'm suggesting the inconsistency on osuka is amazing.

Osuka thinks you're scumslipping here.

[Black Ranger]

If you read it in a way that assumes you're scum anyway, yes

[Black Ranger]

Why is Nahdia scum and is this read stronger than your read on Norwegian?

[Black Ranger]

Anyone figure out the cipher yet

I am dumber having participated in this game

[Black Ranger]

I'm not voting Norwegian because he wanted to dunk cakez and go to night

There's much better reasons to vote Nahdia which you're willing to do but not supply a reason for?

[Black Ranger]

Nahdia's initial reason for voting fwog was fair.

I'm not sure what conclusion you want me to get out of this. I did this in my last game - I rather forcefully wedged open what would be a bleeding wound for the town and made everyone watch as I continually showed them the gooey insides. I was proud that I found something scummy from a townie because I meant I didn't have to fake anything.

[Black Ranger]

it meant ebwop

[Black Ranger]

Drew isn't giving any indication that he intends to come back before eod. Thoughts on him not claiming?

[Black Ranger]

I'll check back in a few hours.

[Black Ranger]

Disagree that 536 is a bad post. It references Norwegian saying to lynch cakez and end day and cakez didnt do anything besides say "bad post" and name drops umlaut for disliking it as well (???) which is somehow meant to make his post more convincing? 387 for those wondering. It kicked off a boring wagon built off this single post which always read like a scum wagon.

[Black Ranger]

First time I lived past N1 on Mafiascum. Super glad.

I am also going to assume we have a 3rd party btw (BRs set-up analysis also gives me this impression). I do not see a vigilante shooting osuka given how osuka was pretty much consensus townread.

Gonna reread EOD in a bit and Umlaut's recent points.

No t to toot my own horn but what about my analysis made you think this in particular? Gonna be honest it was more about the calculations of a doc save at evens and up to 4p groupscum. Unfortunately it didn't really apply at all to a SK scenario (where I think a single save that isn't "double shot" is probably something the NRG would be happy with). Not to say it COULDN'T have been a vig kill, but wouldn't bob have made more sense than osuka?

[Black Ranger]

I say we lynch off the Drew wagon today. It's possible someone bused but it's also very likely someone didn't.

This is an amazing sentence that doesn't actually limit the lynchpool.

You're not saying "scum didn't bus" just that "likely someone didn't"

Fenraiser
osuka
NorwegianBoyEE (1) -

Drew-STA

ManateeDude (1) -

SirCakez

Black Ranger
bob3141
Wake88
fwogcarf
Umlaut
Titus
Drew-Sta (8) - osuka, ManateeDude, Umlaut, Titus, NorwegianboyEE, Fenraiser, bob3141, Nahdia [L-0]
CantLynchAPuppy
SirCakez (1) -

CantLynchAPuppy

Nahdia (1) -

Black Ranger

Not Voting (1) -

Wake88

A more sensical statement would be "scum didn't bus because this wagon was the purest example of town virtue" THEREFORE this pool is prime for scum. But, I can see scum being conservative in making statements like this.

Let's assume 1/4 as scum in the "someone" scenario. In the type of scenario we're probably in right now (2+SK) this is

far worse

odds at finding groupscum than random chance at day 1.

It's too late to lynch Drew-Sta, so don't bother trying; and
Umlaut isn't

really

willing to lynch Drew-Sta, he's just trying to get town cred by pretending.

1. Yup it seemed too late to me, but I legitimately did wonder where this vote came from and why you never cared before. Which BTW you have yet to answer.
2. No, I didn't think you were going for town cred. I was accusing you of making an antiassociative during an inevitable Manatee lynch, but I can tell from your pov (knowing Drew flips scum) you can't put the genie back in the bottle and go back to this point in day 1 and try to think about a townie mindset.

The goal of the former message, insofar as it has one, is to prevent anyone else from moving to the Drew wagon. But the latter message only makes sense if Black Ranger thinks Drew-Sta is scum. So the overall goal of this message is "prevent people from trying to lynch someone I think is scum." A much better response if you as town think I'm scum trying to pseudo-bus my partner at the last second would be to call my bluff by voting him, and that's something Black Ranger never did.

I was present from two pages before your vote to four pages after your vote for a total of 5 hours. Please point out how I attempted to stop a Drew lynch. As for why I didn't vote him here I wanted responses because I decided to stick around, until I didn't, which I announced to the thread. You can hardly blame me for not voting Drew when other people took the opportunity from me in the 7 hours I decided to sleep.

I actually refused to bus in my prev scumgame by riding out deadline but it was a unique set of circumstances where town PR's got doubleshot on night 0 and I didn't feel like giving a scum partner back on day 1, because I (rightly so) believed that the SK would make shit kills, but I definitely didn't announce my absence in that game.

[Black Ranger]

Anyways I want Umlaut for the following reasons:

1) Drew's inexplicitable scumread onto him ("everything pings drew", especially things that aren't actually scummy that he can asspull and disengage from at a moments notice)
2) ... which made no real sense and had no commitment on his part see 120 posts after voting Umlaut he decided to poke me and pick later pick a fight with me. When I don't give him the fight he unvotes Umlaut even though he clearly seems to think he has something greater over me, he doesn't bother to switch his vote until he wants to shitpush Norwegian.
3) Umlaut's terrible RVS behavior
4) His shit vote onto Norwegian and the fact that Drew unvoted Umlaut and voted Norwegian one line after another, used the same reasoning but never acknowledged that it was Umlaut's push. If Drew cared to pretend that Umlaut was of interest wouldn't he have examined his content here (and he went over PAGES of posts in this one response) and give him a +1? That's like, a free anti-associative creation pass, but he didn't do it because if two people obviously found (!!!!Totally!!!!) scummy thing independently it MUST have been a real scummy thing and not some attempt to cherrypick someone that just wants a shit day to end. It just goes back to points 1-2: Drew never cared about presenting a coherent read on Umlaut and never cared to push him.
5) Umlaut's terrible vote onto Drew and inability to explain why he didn't consider the slot sooner
6) I think his case sucks so I want to vote him back

VOTE: Umlaut

[Black Ranger]

Sorry I completely missed EOD, I got busy and didn't get to check in until thread was locked. Admit I probably would not have lynched Drew, so it's a good thing I wasn't in charge

Need a little time to catch up, they've got me working at the office right now. Any Q's just ask

Are any slots colored in for you now that you know that Drew had to fake all his content?

[Black Ranger]

shrug

I struggle to see Umlaut as anything besides scum.

One thing for him may be that Drew insisted he slipped much like Norwegian, and a lot earlier too:

I contributed because I didn't want to be Boring McBuzzkill and figured I could give it benefit of the doubt until it actually did turn out to be a problem.

@Drew

I guess you're reading this as follows:

I figured at that time, "I can give it benefit of the doubt." Then, when it turned out to be a problem, I stopped figuring that.

But actually what I meant is more like:

I figured at that time, "I can give it benefit of the doubt until it turns out to be a problem."

This really pings me. I feel like you've slipped and are backtracking.

And Umlaut has one good response:

Then either you deny that the latter is a legitimate parse of 149, or you admit it's a legitimate parse but you think you couldn't have chosen the wrong parse of an ambiguous sentence. Which is it?

It's a bizarre SvS to write but I still feel like the subject matter isn't anything definitive (something you could actually push a slot for) which is what adds to my suspicion.

[Black Ranger]

I think Manatee is a scum PR. Otherwise, why wouldn't people get on to end the day with a Manatee lynch?

Manatee and BR are where I want to look.

You're getting paranoid from Drew's eod. Nothing that he said by the end of day can be considered legit. If he says Manatee is town, it's because he's fucking with us. If he says Nahdia is scum, well, I'm not basing it on anything he said at the eod either.

Him being the counterwagon to scum is not enough alone. Look at context.

It was an EoD wagon and folks refused to vote Manatee. There's two likely possibilities.

One, town refused to vote town.

Two, scum decided a town wagon wouldn't take and bussed their weaker partner.

These wagons were the same sans Cakez. Lynching votes were Fen (Umlaut) and Norwegian (Cakez). Unrelated but if it saves somebody the effort: Fwog is still on Cakez at eod but is not present in the count due to mod error.

[Black Ranger]

Black Ranger could you please explain why you cast the initial vote for Drew but weren't on it when he was hammered?

Because I was interacting with people in real time and didn't want to show where I was on the matter. I briefly thought Drew was townie during "osuka thinks you're scumslipping" but he didn't bother to talk to me about his Nahdia read. I should have voted him there before I left I guess, but I was milking it for responses and thought a speedlynch was more likely over no lynch so I literally did not lose sleep over it.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

[Black Ranger]

My mistake with the exclusion of cakes it was manateewagon+3. Manatee was another lynch vote, of course because he wasn't voting himself. He was a Cakez voter.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

hm this is actually a good question. if i had to gick one scum on this wagon i'd guess nahdia, only becuase i had mild townreads on umlaut and cakez

Last time you gave a read on Cakez it was that he was null, but you still voted him all the way to end of day. Explain your read please.

[Black Ranger]

What posts convinced you of this?

[Black Ranger]

Above is to Puppy, somehow didn't get prompted for pre post.

[Black Ranger]

Umlaut: how pure is this wagon?

ManateeDude (6) -

bob3141

, Umlaut,

Titus

, Nahdia, SirCakez,

osuka

[L-2]

Just saw this as I was in the middle of making some colored-in votecounts myself. I'm trying to figure out just that. Probably should just reread Nahdia and SirCakez specifically; I never thought the pushes on Cakez were very good but that doesn't make him town.

I still think the way Drew positioned himself with regard to the wagon is more like how I imagine scum wanting to position themselves with regard to a town wagon, setting up to "reluctantly" put his vote there. So probably Manatee isn't group scum.

I feel like the purity of the wagon is necessary for your argument against me. I'm glad that we agree on one additional voter (Manatee) but I also feel like Norwegian and Fen are town at this stage. My questions of the validity of this bloc is squarely within your own and the other two slots from the original Manatee wagon.

Of course, there's an easier way to make an argument for me as scum. Rather than solve everyone else as town you could just talk about my content instead.

[Black Ranger]

How fakeable is Cakez' content?

[Black Ranger]

What are you going to do to develop a read on him?

[Black Ranger]

I think it's the second. It was Manatee scum PR or Drew weaker PR. It could be the first. I lack evidence of anything but saying scum likely preferred Drew over Manatee. If the back half was town, Manatee is more likely than not town.

Titus please give me your theory for the area of the multiverse where there is no groupscum role > neep in this game. This is not a productive line of discussion and I need you on the right track in the time that we have you.

[Black Ranger]

Osuka crumbed doc and softed backup during bob's claim. This is why they were shot. I really doubt anyone missed this and anyone claiming to is suspect.

[Black Ranger]

I kinda think it's Fen Puppy Wake

BR if I am wrong.

I'm putting Fen to town, Puppy to lean scum. Cakez to lean scum. My certainty in Umlaut is failing, but they're scum to me until they put work into their push.

I'll put all scum within {Puppy, Cakez, Umlaut, Nahdia, Wake}

I'm wrong on two of these, but these are people I would lynch today.

[Black Ranger]

the arguement that im scumbuddies with Drew is bizarre honestly. on top of the fact that I was in a way worse place and mafia neopolitan is a fairly strong role especially in a (near) mini so it seems unlikely a stronger mafia role exists. why would I bus drew like that at EoD?? I was in a substantially worse place then him and lynching me if I was scum is always a better scenario bc I have next to no associations

What reads do you feel most confident in right now?

[Black Ranger]

I mean, I guess Black Ranger has but I'm ignoring that because it's ridiculous.

My scumpool also incidentally has everyone that wasn't on the wagon as well minus Fwog. I just happen to view your own and Nahdia's slots as the most likely buses that also have some pretty bad associations with Drew.

Maybe I'm biased but Cakez and Drew were both arguing for scum!me at the same time and decided to drop it at roughly the same time, so net negative
Wake is a wash
Nahdia repeatedly pinged Drew but he never went for her until eod and then never wanted to repeat why she was a pinging scumfucker. They both had dumb one liners with each other like "insignificant X thing pings me" or "insignificant tone read triggers me" or "what's your opinion on Y". For whatever reason he only went for myself/yourself/Norwegian, and it had nothing to do with opportunity because his reads were

fake

so this means he made a

choice

as to who he went for.
Puppy has ~slightly~ good assocations.
But the last two both looked at why Drew was going after your slot. Puppy had more to say, Nahdia was more like "yo, so deathtunnel huh?"
I cased your slot in 862.

[Black Ranger]

Black Ranger's umlaut push reads like someone decided who they were gonna push first and then made a case later. i think point 6 in 862 is telling, lol.

This is clearly a tongue in cheek comment that I made. I went ALL over why Umlaut's case against me sucked and have been beating that drum all day. How he phrased his initial reason of suspecting me (the word choice of "someone" didn't bus) to how he presented my end of day content to who a bus vote would be to an analysis of the purity of the Drew wagon. You don't get to reduce my already humorous reduction as something you can both laugh at

and

speak out against. Either you find it funny, because you GET the humor, or you don't and you want to speak out about it. If you do both, you're producing fake content.

This isn't the first time you've criticized it. You immediately followed up my 862 with:

lot of OMGUSing in this thread, it feels like.

VOTE: Nahdia

You've been sniping around on the sidelines all game. Get serious.

Not Nahdia. She could have lurked out the deadline IMO.

Can a scum!nahdia really not hammer when I'm off the wagon and stating that I will be back in a few hours?

[Black Ranger]

Wagon on me was scum attempting to push an wagon for a shit reason.
Drew and Umlaut both voted me.
Still suspect Cakez based on this.

basically OMGUS

You gave your opinions on his other votes, but his push on you day 1 was basically his baby. Can this really be OMGUS, and how do you feel about how you reached L-4 yesterday?

If Norwegian is scum to you, does this make Umlaut town?

[Black Ranger]

On second thought, i'd like a wagon on Cakez a lot more considering Umlaut did vote Drew early, and basic logic suggests there isn't much reason for Drew's scum buddy to put the spotlight on him early when Manatee still seemed like a viable wagon close to deadline.
Black Ranger. You should change vote to Cakez too.

Cakez' stumbling into day gave me some reservations about him especially with how I'm narrowing who a bus vote could have been, but a reason not to vote Umlaut isn't a reason to vote Cakez, it's a reason not to vote Umlaut and it's just good play to find a reason to vote somebody else.

I'm more interested in slots like Puppy, who has terrible consistency on Cakez' slot, wants to sort him but when prompted with how he will do that, says that he will think really hard about it. I was hoping he'd pick a fight with Cakez, but he didn't, and will never get towncred for doing it now, but I guess he could redeem himself if he somehow helped lynched scum, maybe.

I also disliked this:

the arguement that im scumbuddies with Drew is bizarre honestly. on top of the fact that I was in a way worse place and mafia neopolitan is a fairly strong role especially in a (near) mini so it seems unlikely a stronger mafia role exists. why would I bus drew like that at EoD?? I was in a substantially worse place then him and lynching me if I was scum is always a better scenario bc I have next to no associations

What reads do you feel most confident in right now?

Cakez as scum and Fwog & Fen as town

I noticed that Manatee was happy to talk a lot about his own slot but hasn't contributed to the day (his other two posts is 1. responding to nahdia's accusation against him and 2. what a neapolitan is). I wanted better content out of him. When asked for content, he gives three names and no reasons. A one liner when he is able to string together multiple sentences to explain why he isn't a bus vote in response to Titus.

Why would I vote Cakez over these slots?

[Black Ranger]

I feel like there's too much tolerance for underperformance in this game. The lynch is a destination. How we get there is more important than lynching scum. Investment is how we'll color slots versus rolling some weighted dice.

I don't want to hold people to some great standard of "must case everything that you make impact with" or "must have a strong opinion" but you should be able to find some way to help the town. If that's your wincon at least.

[Black Ranger]

On 2nd look, Drew being uncomfortable with meta kinda makes it seem like he might have been trying to overcompensate to look like town. Like, he could have been so focused on Manatee possibly being town for towncred (and emphasizing that Mana would be a poor mislynch which could be an unintentional scum!tmi at Mana!town) and never really considered he'd be put up to vote (his wagon was a surprise tbh). Drew's Norwee vote piggybacking on Umlaut could mean that what Drew might have been going for was stopping any wagons from consolidating by sowing a fuck ton of chaos by scumreading and scum pinging multiple people with not much care to actually lynch someone but just self-preserve. A Drew bus from Manatee isn't optimal even if Manatee was a strongman if you look at this from a late game perspective. If Manatee is town, he should have kept his mouth shut but he didn't.

Drew's eod opinion on Manatee is worthless. I'd like whoever said something like "Titus made it a safe vote so scum could position themselves to reluctantly vote there" to raise their hand because that's immediately what comes to mind for me. This isn't a newbie game where scum TMI at the end of day between two dominant wagons at deadline. If scum TMI here it will be more subtle than that. Whatever Drew said about Manatee/Norwegian/Nahdia at the end of day must be assumed as WIFOM. If you think you have something look for some other data point to support it.

[Black Ranger]

Yeah okay this is all very cool

It's clear I was referring to the Manatee wagon from that post and one I made to Drew later:

I don't want this lynch but I would still do it,

if the alternative is you

, manatee or no lynch, what would do you, drew?

Thus, I didn't want the lynch in the first place. Look how fast their and my wagon has gathered momentum. Yet we got nowhere on other wagons. What does that tell you?

What I mean by this is I feel there were better options listed earlier that were tellingly overlooked.

Why we have not tried to start a wagon on Nadhia is beyond me. There's more merit there than in Manatee.

I'm just going to move on from this point, because nobody actually writes "I don't want to lynch because I'm not convinced it is a good one" without meaning "I don't want this lynch because I'm not convinced it is a good one" or "I don't want to lynch Manatee because I'm not convinced it is a good one". Our reactions were different but I'm reading less into it because it's easier if you're just scum.

If any of the three of you are town fuck off.

[Black Ranger]

I voted Drew before the wagon was viable. In that time I also voted bob because nobody else voted Drew. Bob claimed and the wagon fell apart. I vanitied Nahdia during the Manatee wagon. I didn't move back to Drew because I wanted to keep him talking, but at some point he didn't realize that I was talking to him as if there was a possibility that he was town (previously I didn't want to talk to him at all because he was an asshole to me), even if it didn't translate well (see: "it's easier if you're just scum"). At that point he didn't comment any more in any meaningful way, shit out some WIFOM reads and left.

If you think it's a scum perspective vote me.

[Black Ranger]

If I wanted to set up an Umlaut mislynch wouldn't I have rested on it until today? Also, it's not like there is a shortage of lynchbait here. I'm willing to lynch > half the players in the game right now, you're just going to get a lot of push back on some of the slots until I think some town up over the others.

[Black Ranger]

What do you mean by "vanitying" Nahdia?

I was the only vote on Nahdia and nobody was interested in discussing it. Fwog might have been willing to go there but was MIA.

[Black Ranger]

I feel like there's too much tolerance for underperformance in this game. The lynch is a destination. How we get there is more important than lynching scum. Investment is how we'll color slots versus rolling some weighted dice.

I don't want to hold people to some great standard of "must case everything that you make impact with" or "must have a strong opinion" but you should be able to find some way to help the town. If that's your wincon at least.

Do you think my Nahdia case has the capabilities of being implemented today?

Why she questioned cakez' townread on her is the biggest reason why I scumread her, that and why she was so willing to lynch Manatee when Manatee wasn't a good lynch.

Town point for Fenraiser: brought up how people would allow a TvT to happen between bob and osuka. I think a scumflip on Nahdia says a lot for the alignment of these two.

I feel like I got something out of bob vs osuka until bob crapped on Manatee about his cakez read. Nahdia didn't color the slots and moved on. I'm just as guilty for encouraging votes on osuka, so it's not that town COULDN'T do it, but Nahdia legitimately didn't care about getting anything out of it besides finding a reason to vote you, which admittedly I did as well, because it was a good reason, but she didn't move on when 190, 239, 254 dropped, and she should have.

[Black Ranger]

I don't want this lynch but I would still do it, if the alternative is you, manatee or no lynch, what would do you, drew?

You also included Manatee in the "alternative" between all the posibilities and you directly referred to Drew who was the leading wagon on the VC. Could I get some insight at why you asked Drew this?

(Aside: Also Umlaut that hurt. UwU my heart is broken and I will continue to UwU out of spite)

Yes how about you look at the Drew post in 771 instead of viewing my ISO looking for something you can nip at you vampire.

[Black Ranger]

If Norwegian is scum to you, does this make Umlaut town?

-snip-
Not necessarily. I haven't seen any interactions between them that preclude SvS.

How do you feel about Umlaut challenging Norwegian's push on you in 283 and 291 with the push back from Norwegian in 372, 373?

[Black Ranger]

fuck off with this nonsense. speaking as someone who just got thoroughly trounced in a large as scum for doing a bad job buddying townies, i 100% had good reason to be skeptical of a townread on me at that point.

and ive explained my reasoning on manatee. i wasnt able to explain the meta component of it d1 because the game was still ongoing, but i have since clarified.

Manatee's response is good enough for me:

Nahdia those contexts are completely different though... one was someone asking me about my read and I gave a tentative read while admitting that bias might play a part in it.

Cakez said because hes town people pushing him automatically makes him suspicious of their slot

There's better reasons to suspect Manatee than this but if I'm the one making a case for you all it really proves is that you don't give a shit about your pocket reads.

Or how about this pocket read:

I'll admit to a little OMGUS but knowing I'm town the desire to do a lynch on me early reads very scummily

scumposting

... Which is the same reason Manatee suspected Cakez over

Cakez's random "bad post" pop ins have been one ping for me. I also pointed out him miscontruing norwees words in an attempt to omgus. he also literally said that bc he knows hes town that he automatically reads the push on him as scummy.. as if thats reasonable at all.

voting cakez based on his miscontruition and reaction to being voted.

I feel so detached from the game like you guys are all players and im just a spectator im not sure of anything anymore. I could reread cakez again if yall could actually be convinced but idk

if I get lynched at this point its understandable im just sorry you had to waste a lynch on me, thought it seems everyone is having difficulty deciding a target so the likelyhood of hitting scum seems low

However you didn't vote Cakez try to do anything with him until today. Yesterday you were absorbed with terrible votes like Fwog and Manatee.

And what's with this obsession with OMGUS? See my point about humor and you giving a tell that you "got it" but still want to challenge me over it, when you already have a history for salivating over these types of posts.

Again, this is all just sideline sniping. You haven't had a worthwhile original idea in 700~ posts. Why anyone is tolerating your slot is beyond me.

[Black Ranger]

i HAVE had original ideas. ideas you've called terrible!

Let's go over it then.

cakez

Ctrl+ced Manatee's push

fwog

Your push from 700-800 posts ago.

manatee

Ctrl+ced bob's push.

VOTE: Wake88

Can we just lynch this?

I'm assuming the lack of response is a no?

It's already been said in thread so I imagine the same conversation is happening in the scum PT. He has high SK equity for three reasons:

1) Lurking
2) His "PR post" from day 1 hints bulletproof
3) His unwillingness to discuss the SK at the start of day was random and unprompted

If this is 3:1:10 getting rid of the SK has high utility for us because it increases the chances that Titus goes to late game.

[Black Ranger]

Scratch that last comment. Titus isn't going to make it long and lynching the SK will ensure it happens sooner.

Titus: let's setup spec. My certainty in no scum role >neep comes from a) the belief that an sk would be bulletproof in this setup and a strongman would be unfair b) osuka amd bob's roles hint mafia doc. c) last mafiaso being a goon by default with this assumption.

[Black Ranger]

{Manatee, Ranger, Umlaut, Cakez} - Nullreads

Gun to head if you had to pick a side for each of these slots where would they land?

Not much has changed except for Fen

I do find it annoying that he "cleared" Umlaut and myself then used his clear on Umlaut to push me for "setting him up" when he's the one that voted Umlaut yesterday. It's like why I can't fault Nahdia for pressuring osuka who started shitting town yesterday or for not reading the TvT because I personally knew town could do that.

I'm not sure that this makes him scum even if a better position to take would have been to dare Umlaut to lynch Drew (like Umlaut said earlier today). If my post somehow compelled him to stay on Drew out of disgust or survivalism, good, but a not!Manatee/Drew vote at this point seemed irresponsible because my impression was at this point that Manatee was the likelier lynch.

I also dislike how Fen continues to use Drew's eod position on Manatee to develop a read on that slot.


Fen: what is your read on me and what is your read on Nahdia?

[Black Ranger]

Nothing in particular? Am I supposed to be feeling something from it? It doesn't look particularly townie or scummy on Umlaut's end. I've already talked about why I disliked that particular push from Norwegian.

Umlaut was pushing Norwegian to develop a better read on you, see "tone policing vs game solving" and when Norwegian admitted there was nobody interesting in the game outside of you Umlaut critiqued him on a lack of town mindset to which Norwegian snapped back at him over.

I feel good about people trying to improve other players reads but most importantly I think Umlaut and Norwegian would be one of the least likely teams here especially with the last set of posts.

[Black Ranger]

You're right. You didn't copy Manatee. If anything he picked up on the same post you did, but you still faulted him for it. 1058

As for Bob v Manatee

And manatee what makes you think your posts are better than cakes?

Do you still feel liek cake is exaggerating what nord said considering he has clarified his stance on nord. With his stance being a slight scum read and not strong one.

What is your opinion on your own posts?

Your saying cake has been makign bad posts how are you any better. Nearly all your posts have been fluff with no real attempt to scum hunt. And reads you give seem to ahve no depth with you changign them when convenient

VOTE: mantte

i will lynch manatee. 536 is bad (the second point about the omgus). it's not an illogical point, but i dont buy that manatee is a paragon of logic that believes anything not perfectly rational is scummy.

Here's the post we're talking about:

Cakez's random "bad post" pop ins have been one ping for me. I also pointed out him miscontruing norwees words in an attempt to omgus. he also literally said that bc he knows hes town that he automatically reads the push on him as scummy.. as if thats reasonable at all.

but Cakez NEVER mentioned Manatee by name in between the time Manatee voted him or dropped reasons for why he would like to vote park Cakez. How is it OMGUS when all Cakez did was say that he disliked the wagon composition that was building on him?

[Black Ranger]

Yes/no OMGUS is more personal than "this entire wagon sucks".

[Black Ranger]

sure I can ask him about how Cakez v Norwegian is OMGUS, but you've been more chiefly concerned with Manatee re: the wagon comment due to your "meta" tell. This is all one sentence, so what am I supposed to think here when you drop this beyond that you consider it all to be OMGUS?

[Black Ranger]

If this is 3:1:10 getting rid of the SK has high utility for us because it increases the chances that Titus goes to late game.

I guess that's a good point.
Is Wake your only SK read?

It's not really a good point if you read my next post. If the SK makes it to night the mafia then have a dilemma in weighing whether the nurse was more like a UB and whether there's a town doc (if they have a maf doc) vs shooting titus vs believing the sk will do it for them. Now that I revealed my suspicions the SK will also calculate this in reverse, but with less information available to them, if they haven't already.

Wake is my only SK read because I don't think it's productive to SK hunt. I don't think anything is unique to this setup where they could have slipped SK, so something like Wake's comments are the best that we have (in particular baiting the mafia kill to sidestep any accusations of acting like an antitown bp later in the game). That assumes that the SK was

designed

to be bulletproof and is a big assumption, but they often are.

[Black Ranger]

Cakez I think Norwegian is close to a consensus read here. Isn't it possible for town to sheep me and why are you narrowing the pool of a bus vote squarely to where Norwegian is?

[Black Ranger]

I think Wake is an acceptable lynch.

I don't really want to power through one without hearing what Manatee has to say. I still want him to level up his slot.

Luciano is redeeming Puppy's weak play today. I don't think it's incredibly likely that Drew was power bussed into the ground, but a 1-1 on/off distribution is very reasonable with how the end of day played out. If we flip scum from earlier in the wagon I would say that Nahdia would be a possible 2-0.

Luciano: any particular reason against sk!wake?

[Black Ranger]

I mean, if Manatee wants to flake for three days I'm happy to write him off as some kind of scum I guess.

[Black Ranger]

Nahdia: am I your highest scumread and why?

[Black Ranger]

Not really sure where I stand on Fen. His votes look agenday and I'm not sure how unfortunate it is that they happen to be largely the same as Drew or if that was the idea.

I think Manatee is probably town.

I don't get this read when he revised Manatee to probscum based on Drew's eod. If someone wants to pocket read fwog as scum that's ok I guess, but he never gave a real reason against someone with 100+ posts in the game.

{Fwog, Cakez, Manatee, Nahdia}

Cakez was also town for him day 1, but he cites 390 for the reason for his read to change. I'm not sure what the flip does to change that, beyond Fen pointing out that Drew backed Cakez in the exchange against Norwegian, but Drew had a hard on for Norwegian so I'm not sure whether it matters who said what if it was aimed at Norwegian.

He wants Fwog because Drew never interacted with him, but I feel like he started shitting town yesterday and if scum know someone is town and shitting it all over the thread, it really doesn't surprise me that Drew avoided him. Nahdia is a scumread for:

Your posts about Nahdia reminded me about my earlier push on them during D1 that I dropped due to Umlaut's take that I agreed with (that Nahdia was trying to find a way to get in the game) and I wanted more pressure on her today. Kinda also liked her responses too though.

Meanwhile he voted me before he voted Nahdia presumably because Umlaut dropped that quote out of context, but if myself and Umlaut are both "cleared" as of start of day, why didn't he laser focus on my read on Nahdia, who he already read as scum, when he had me as town? Even if you think Umlaut is town, it's on you to double check his work, but he didn't do that, and didn't care to check my work on our mutual SR.

Titus, what's going on in your gut?

[Black Ranger]

Meh

I was thinking he was taking Cakez' side up until he wasn't (today)

but he seemed to diffuse cakez vs norwegian day 1 in this post 540

this excerpt in particular -

"This game is so dead so I hope the day ends soon." is something I resonate with. Even Cakez pointed it out that this game was slow as "molasses". Going off on 486, Norwee connecting ending the day and eagerness to solve via flips is a good look when you take into account that this game has been going pretty slow and the most "loud" thing has been in pages 1-12 (Around there) with Bob v Osuka that didn't do shit for everyone else (sorry you two it was horrible to read).

I think a more accurate take of 369 is shown in 386 and 387 which I believe from Norwee is a townie thing to say. Why? Scum wouldn't push Cakez this hard if they were really satisfied with the game state. And his push seems genuine. I hope I'm not reaching too much here but the votes on Norwee are grosser than Bob v Osuka.

also this reminds me

why has this game died so hard?

mmk I just think it's Norwe anyways

hey cakez what the fuck

[Black Ranger]

Yeah fuck that guy in particular.

VOTE: Wake

[Black Ranger]

I feel like it's a good role to have vs sk and has an inno against town investigative. There's been some drama about named townies lately. I think this would be more in line with what I expect from FL+RC rather than a named townie.

[Black Ranger]

of course i'm sure this setup was made before the drama came up in MD but i trust them to notice trends and in general the "pieces of the puzzle" approach with fantastic dual purpose power against town and the solo player is very much in the style of the reviewers.

[Black Ranger]

Manatee is the "this" and Drew is the "you". I'm speaking to him in 772 re: his 771.

If people want to fault me for not voting Drew yesterday they can, just don't say that I

said

that I didn't want it. The point was "I don't want Manatee but I would be willing to do it over no lynch" and I was challenging Drew's post where he a) didn't want Manatee b) wasn't willing to vote there. I was probing him on why our reactions were different which I brought up after the "osuka thinks you're scumslipping" post I made in 780. My actions may not have accurately lined up where my preferred lynch:

@Mod: however useless it is my vote has been on Nahdia for several pages

... because I was trying to milk the last of the day, and it didn't help that I was actually trying to work with Drew at the end and get him to explain himself before he left.

[Black Ranger]

Do you think Umlaut is an SK because he has scum motivation is his posts that seem to be independent from Drew or did he say anything in particular that hints SK?

[Black Ranger]

Did you actually think he was a nurse before his flip?

He made it pretty clear:

I may or may not be inclined to believe his claim, for any reason or for no reason in particular

He also did some kind of doc crumb that drew posted back to him which after the flip made me think mafia doc.

[Black Ranger]

@Black Ranger, you haven't really been around much lately. The only chance I've had to interact with you since finishing my catchup is 1183 and 1184. In 1138 you questioned Nahdia's scumread on you. They have since returned and interacted with me but did not respond to your post. Can you give detail on how you view Nahdia's scumread of you? Do you think it's town motivated or scum motivated?

She's associative hunting through me but has no stated reason for voting me and did it because it was trendy. This slot is always scum and nobody gives a shit.

[Black Ranger]

I'm just going to accept that Manatee has the easiest reads in the world because I find myself disliking them because they're easy meanwhile I'll fault people like Cakez for not letting go of something.

Did some background digging on Manatee and found out a few things:
1) He siteflaked during his 3 day absence
2) He normally posts this amount in games
3) His scum meta appears to have a high degree of casual behavior attached to it
4) When he's town he actually looks at slots and goes beyond "X/Y is scummy"
but, I wouldn't place full credit that he is playing fully to his town meta here because he made the same "think i'm pocketed by the defense" comment to GuiltyLion in 2018 that he made to me in this game. he was town then but i'm not sold that this is just an expression he uses when he's town, but i could fully buy that he went back to his older games to see how he could emulate how he plays as town.

[Black Ranger]

I give a shit. Can you link me to some of the posts where you have talked about her so that I can reread them and think about her slot some more?

My scumread on her mainly hinges on how she treated my case on Umlaut today - 1002.

She was one of the few that humored Umlaut taking my 772 out of context. The others were Umlaut-Fen-lesser degree Wake and Cakez. This is supposedly the reason for her vote because she hasn't given another one.

I dislike how she questioned Cakez townreading her day 1 and I feel like she should have been able to develop a read on bob or osuka yesterday but failed to.

I don't believe that Nahdia has had original reads in this game.

I made a far better point against Manatee that Nahdia never commented on despite him being some great pocket read for her.

I noticed that Manatee was happy to talk a lot about his own slot but hasn't contributed to the day (his other two posts is 1. responding to nahdia's accusation against him and 2. what a neapolitan is). I wanted better content out of him. When asked for content, he gives three names and no reasons. A one liner when he is able to string together multiple sentences to explain why he isn't a bus vote in response to Titus

She was highly present on this page but didn't comment on it. Why? Probably not to give any associations. This is a noticeable trend. She's a passenger that isn't really in the game. Instead what she DID do what make everything about a defense of herself and put doubt on Drew being bussed.

And actually now that I look at her scumreads she has everyone offwagons sans Puppy (you) + Manatee/Norwegian

And interestingly she did comment on the same Manatee!post I did and here's what she had to say:

{BR, Cakez, fwog, Norway, Manatee}
-snip-

dont feel like manatee being counterwagon to drew is a good reason to stop looking at that slot. in 940 he says he bussed drew but like... from him it was literally a just survival vote with no content. which isn't like, bad, but it feels actually so boldfaced disingenuous to go back and say "why would i buss him like that!?" when he had no part in that wagon.

VOTE: Cakez

I'm just going to assume that she meant to say "he says he couldn't have or wouldn't have bussed drew" and isn't slipping something because that's dumb, but that's a sentence you have to read twice for sure. Is this really the angle to take - to call it a "survival vote" and critique his reasoning/940 if you scumread Manatee? I was townreading Manatee up until 940, but all I got out of it was that he as focused on himself instead of his scumreads. Why did Nahdia try to excuse him and scumread him at the same time while I had a kneejerk reaction? It reads fake to me that she and I would react so differently given where we're coming from.

I might start repeating myself because I'm in a rush right now but I also don't like how she suspects Cakez today for the reasons Manatee suspected him yesterday: 1058. I don't see her reconciling her reads at all or trying to make progress.

--

re: 1 in 2 {cakez nahdia} I don't see how they're exclusive because cakez basically naked voted fwog and

both

Nahdia and Cakez naked voted Manatee in the counts you reference. If you're claiming this is somehow too outrageous to be scum I disagree. I'd say they have more partner equity as a result, but I wouldn't call them each others' #1 most-likely-partner right now, mainly because I townread Cakez through meta even if I disagree with their reads. I know that Nahdia has other good partners (Fen and Umlaut) and I haven't really looked into Cakez.

I guess what you're asking me is whether I believe if it's Nahdia/Cakez or Nahdia/Fen or Nahdia/Umlaut or whether Wake is groupscum and how to reconcile this with your SK!Umlaut read. I'd guess if I were to take a bullet right now I'd say Nahdia/Fen, so I'll say that's my "preferred compromise" pool. I think that interaction between Fen-Umlaut-Drew re: Fen/Drew on mistaking Umlaut's "nervousness" might be a point against mafia!umlaut but I'll need to check in tonight with more thoughts, sorry.

[Black Ranger]

Oh I meant to say that both Fen and Umlaut went aggro on me when I voted Nahdia today and that's why my eyes are going there, preflip tho. If I'd lynch them today it would because of reasons I've stated for them independently already today.

[Black Ranger]

We're in a much, much better position if we lynch Nahdia first imo.

But I'm willing to consolidate here.

VOTE: Fenraiser

This should be L-2. I'll be active around this time tomorrow, but not much before then.

[Black Ranger]

Arguing that Titus is solo playing is fucked up.

If she wants to strongarm a dissenting voice let her. Thinking the only possible conclusion is that Titus gets her way (assuming you know what she's after) is something you by definition can't know, unless you're a mind reader.

I don't like how she handled the Manatee wagon yesterday, but she got results and I'm not bitter about it. Not wanting to lynch Cakez shouldn't bother you because Cakez is kind-of efforting here and seems town. His problem seems more like misfortune of being the wagon all game, being countered by somebody that was countered by known scum and having edgy reads, which he's justified in having now. If Titus is coming to the same place I am on Cakez, she's coming from the right place and she isn't alone.

[Black Ranger]

but you have used the same faulty logic to read Ranger's slot.

Did my IC activate already

[Black Ranger]

I have two theories for the lack of Nahdia!replacement

1) Mod thinks we're about to crush from their pov obvscum and knows night will be paused
2) Mod is talking to their backup they hand on hand during the Puppy replacement when they asked if Luciano could rep in instead

(1) is irl wolfy but i'm just putting that out there

[Black Ranger]

excellent theory omelette

[Black Ranger]

dancing in a dead thread

[Black Ranger]

No

t to toot my own horn but what about my analysis made you think this in particular?

G

onna be honest it was more about the calculations of a doc save at evens and up to 4p groupscum.

U

nfortunately it didn't really apply at all to a SK scenario (where I think a single save that isn't "double shot" is probably something the NRG would be happy with).

N

ot to say it COULDN'T have been a vig kill, but wouldn't bob have made more sense than osuka?

We're in a much, much better position if we lynch Nahdia first imo.

But I'm willing to consolidate here.

VOTE: Fenraiser

This should be L-2. I'll be active around this time tomorrow, but not much before then.

Not obvious enough?