Gent 6 is very charming. I like the way he sounds reading from his first post up to 1042 (the first serious read post of his). He mentioned at some point his goal is to pair with a partner and leave down the line if he must, or if he's going to be left out, have good reads. very fun wifom stuff but it definitely sounds good
In post 1039, Lady 6 wrote:G6, what are your main reads/takes at the moment?
I'm townhunting, and leaving the catchup-read to future-me's problem tomorrow (IRL tomrorow that is)
Guy 3 is town. (I suspect I both know who he is, and don't know who is is at the same time and it vexes me)
Guy 2 is town. (Is nobody going to address that he's playing so carefree he didn't even notice I'm not the player who was having issues, even though I explicitly made it a part of my opening moves)
Lady 5 is town. (Do I really need to explain this one?)
I believe Lady 1 is best sorted by me in our lewd handholding dungeon, and am willing to commit to yeeting myself and her if I don't like the kinks.
I'm sure I'd have more reads if I went back and read the initial pages, and I will do so eventually, but those are the towns that strike my fancy right now.
Nothing abt these reads strikes me as odd, and theres an example of his stance on Lady 1 -- it seems like he didn't open with much of a townread on her, he's figuring it out as he goes along
In post 1071, Gentleman 6 wrote:<Self-Meta>
I think scum-me here replaces in and gambits using the fact that nobody knows how much experience I'd have, pretends to be new to the setup and immediately starts looking for pair up.
</Self-meta>
At this point, I am trying to sort by pairs, and not solos. I'm working on a formalized reads list and then intend to denote which half of a pair I like better/worse... even though mechanically at this point it doesn't matter!
Since my last townreads list:
In post 1042, Gentleman 6 wrote:Guy 3 is town. (I suspect I both know who he is, and don't know who is is at the same time and it vexes me)
Guy 2 is town. (Is nobody going to address that he's playing so carefree he didn't even notice I'm not the player who was having issues, even though I explicitly made it a part of my opening moves)
Lady 5 is town. (Do I really need to explain this one?)
I have decided to add Lady 1 (tenative on PT sort), Lady 7 (Mostly for her early scumread of my slot's replaceout in post 336, amusingly enough), and Gentleman 1.
Most of those are from re-reading the part of the game that happened before I replaced in.
That gives me a town block that looks something like this (Assuming we see G2-L4):
Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8
Gentleman 1
-
Lady 7
Gentleman 8
-
Lady 5
Gentleman 3
-
Lady 3
Gentleman 6
-
Lady 1
Gentleman 4 - Lady 2
Gentleman 2
-
Lady 4
Essentially, I don't think that "proper" scumhunting is all that productive right now. I'd rather just find three town-town pairs and mass-hemlock the rest. (And I am mostly including myself in the hemlocking, not the three)
New reads list! If I were Gent!6 scum, I'd have townread Gentleman 4 probably. I think i could have used him as a sort of lifeline to save Lady 2. Perhaps this is too early for that, but he didn't have exceptionally strong reasons to colour people as town in this post (they all seem somewhat loose)
In post 1669, Gentleman 5 wrote:OK. I'm scratching my head at you being unable to townread either of me or Ghosty 8, or Gent 9 and Lady 3
We approach the game very differently. I am unable to really see things from the POV as you're seeing them, but that's okay!
Lady 3 I have a specific concern I am choosing not to elaborate on right now.
Gent 9 I guess just, on my re-read, didn't really leave a impression on me that made it a town-lean.
I expect these reads to fluctuate as time goes on.
I don't expect to be around for the final few pairings.
I slightly townread the specific hidden concern on Lady 3. Gent 6 seems to really have not expected to live this far. But if its him and Lady 2 last scum alive, I'm not really sure what the strategy was here. I'd expect that one of them needs to hard bus the other -- which Gent 6 down the line doesn't.. really do? I'll keep on
In post 2492, Gentleman 6 wrote:First off… I intend to treat each player individually, then go back and see what that makes the pairings look like.
I think trying to sort pairs in and of themselves as of yet is a trap. A very shiny trap, but a trap none the less. I’ll be going into details per tier next. What sucks is that even tier D isn't inherently a scum read. Just less town pinging. This game is really pleasant to the ears and eyes... such that I'm finding it hard to form reads from the opposite end.
Tier S+ “Uh, setup says Hi”
{Gent the 8th, Gent the 6th}
Tier S “If this person is not town, I really hope I’m not around to make endgame calls”
{Lady the 5th, Lady the 7th}
Tier A “I currently have no plans to vote here, barring major changes in game state”
{Gent the 9th, Lady the 6th, Lady the 3rd, Lady the 8th}
~~~~~~Line of Townblock Invitation~~~~~
Tier B “I have the desire to townblock and or nuzzle this person, with a few reservations that I’d love you all to help me with”
{Gent the 2nd, Lady the 1st, Gent the 1st}
Tier C “I have no plans to townblock this person, but I am open to hearing from others in A and S tiers about why I should change my opinions”
{Gent the 3rd, Gent the 5th, Gent the 4th}
Tier D “I find no reasons to put this person near a townblock”
{Lady the 4th, Lady the 2nd}
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Coloring townblock vs not Green vs Blue gives me...
As such, I believe 9-3 and 8-5 should be two of the three endgame pairings.
Ideally, we need one more SOLID pairing though. Time to start digging into specifics....
Still not inventing a townread on Gent 4! So scum Gent 6 needs to create a strong bus on Lady 2 to seal him as town for the endgame! That's his only way of winning with these reads, if he sticks to them.
He also liked Gent 9 / Lady 3 before it was cool. That's neat, at this point i still didn't TR gent 9 -- To be honest, did hardly anyone? I'm not sure if he had an evil reason to townblock that pair into the endgame. Maybe he's a god and knew they'd paranoia each other out somehow
He puts Lady 5 and Lady 7 as his very top townreads which is nothing special, but I definitely agreed with
In post 2689, Lady 8 wrote:You want to talk to me about Gent 9's 'towntell'?
Yeah, actually.
I am approaching from a "What would I do if I were scum in this setup" and if I were going to misread-the-setup gambit I'd sure as hell not have done it this way.
There's quite a bit of potential downside to misreading the setup ploys. If you are going to use it, you want to use it early, cash some towncred within the first phase (pre-dance) and use that to gain a partner. Making "scumreads" based upon it seems like incredibly high risk... and I'm not a risk adverse gambiter by any means, but there's no upside here. The potential gains form this gambit is entry to the dance if you expected not to make it. However, he was literally in the dance by page 5. Why continue this gambit with no new upsides for nearly another 90 pages of fast-paced content?
As for the "Well, what if he's scum and just flat out misread the setup" then to believe that reality, you have to go along that:
A: The other scum never discussed optimal play for this setup
B: Guy the 9th never planed for optimal play in the setup in his scum PT
C: Guy the 9th never asked about the setup spec the town was doing in the PT
I just don't buy A B and C happening simultaneously this far into the game, even though we flipped a total lurksack in guy the 7th. If for some reason this is true, the third hypothetical partner would also be a lurksack, or flying under the radar/coasting, in Guy the 3rd, Guy the 2nd, or something of the like. And I get the feeling guy the 3rd could be ruled out as a partner here because a scumteam with guy the 3rd on it has a university master's thesis paper on playing the setup optimally on it the day he replaced in.
I disagreed with this reasoning but regardless, it seems like Gent 6 really believed in it -- or he had a good scum reason to want Gent 9 / Lady 3 to endgame. I do not see what that would be.
I decently liked Gent 6's behaviour towards the G2/L4 wagon as he encouraged me to hammer it. There are some other posts sprinkled around up to this point that i like for minor reasons that im not gonna bother quoting
In post 3580, Lady 6 wrote:It wasn't "survivalist" because survivalism would mean G4 votes for his counter wagon or goes for a target where there is more interest like G3 or G9.
Counterpoint... Lady the 1st isn't nearly as townread globally as you make out.
this is risky. Seal Lady 6 barely mentions Lady 1 indirectly with regards to Gent 4 trying to start a counterwagon on her, and Gent 6 points out a flaw in Lady 6's theory -- That Lady 1 wasn't as townread as she thinks. Why does scum Gent 6 do that? He doesnt lose anything if he lets Lady 1 believe that, but this way he gains nothing unless he is town
Gent 6 pointing out Gent 1 dodged the opportunity to add his vote to the L2/G4 wagon
the 10000 IQ interpretation is that Gent 6 is scum framing Gent 1 here
The 1 IQ interpretation (and probably the correct one) is that Gent 1 is scum and was stalling, and Gent 6 is town that correctly pointed this out, so Gent 1 felt the overwhelming need to bus by the end and thats why his vote is kinda awkward
In post 4613, Gentleman 6 wrote:Oh I certainly think that game is over when Guy the 3rd dies.
I fear a world in which it's just my pair and one other, though!
They're the pair I'd want with me in endgame right now, although more because of the lady than the gent.
If i was effectively in El-LO with G5 vs my own lady the first, I'd cry myself to sleep trying to choose.
I really hope it's just none of those three.
I feel like Gent 6 and i are having the exactly same game experience ever since this horror movie of a second dance began. I relate heavily to the pressure Gent 6 says he's been feeling today, i would be somewhat shocked if he's faking this. It's exactly whats going thru my head as it happens
In post 4818, Gentleman 6 wrote:I mean I pretty blatantly stopped caring about both of the 2-4 pairs and wanted them flipped before intermissions, alignments be damned. I was working on the rest of the game assuming they'd all be corpses.
I made ZERO secret of that.
I don't know how today ends. I just want to get to a world where I trust 5-8 enough to let the ladies have their death pact and we all take hemlock into the sunset. Nothing else matter besides finding the winning pair.
In post 4819, Gentleman 6 wrote:I really just want everyone's takes on who their final pairing would be. Other than their own, obv, because while I may want 6-1 you obviously don't!
Still think it'll end up being 6-1/8-5 in final four if we get there and I dread it.
I am praying to any deity I can think of the game ends before that.
In post 4833, Gentleman 6 wrote:Lady 8 make Mee feel betyer about guy five and then we can all mass suicide and none of this shit will natter.
-Having a sample of Lady 8's postings, I believe I'll be able to get a good read on her alignment if we are in a pt together. So far I like them in a nai way but believe that it is possible for them to be mafia.
-To that extent, I disagree with post 312 from Lady 7. I'm not townreading Lady 6 specifically right now. Lady 8 I feel hasn't revealed enough of her heart to be able to tell. I don't know how I feel about Lady 7 as a result of this.
-I intend to put in work this game.
Okay. Why does scum Gent 5 do this on his third post? No one had stated townreads on me by this point (or barely no one). People do it after the proposal, but not before. What was scum!Gent 5's plan if I wasn't towny?
Did he know i have a tendency against being eliminated, and sniped me for that reason? I doubt that because A.) im not immune to miselims at all, i just have a slight tendency to avoid this and B.) he says he has no idea who i am. Is he lying?
-Having a sample of Lady 8's postings, I believe I'll be able to get a good read on her alignment if we are in a pt together. So far I like them in a nai way but believe that it is possible for them to be mafia.
-To that extent, I disagree with post 312 from Lady 7. I'm not townreading Lady 6 specifically right now. Lady 8 I feel hasn't revealed enough of her heart to be able to tell. I don't know how I feel about Lady 7 as a result of this.
-I intend to put in work this game.
I am trying to decide if he wants to pair up with the towniest person in the game because he thinks he needs "a bit more"
Or if he is trying to look town while snagging the towniest person in the game.
My initial reaction would be the latter but the rest of his posts are alright so I am unsure right now.
I'd be lying if I said I didn't townread lady 8 to a certain extent; I just think there is a capacity for her to be fooling us in there, moreso than what I feel coming from you, if that makes sense to you.
This is also my personal preference; the avatar interested me and then the posting seems like someone I could get along with
This is so wholesome id be heartbroken if it isn't true
What is the difference between Lady 8, me, 6,seal, and 1.sad.
I simply sorted by post count, I am curious why you wanted to pair up with her in particular over anyone else given she is the most widely town read individual but you want to pair up for sorting based reasons?
Also do you have a nickname of sorts I could use?
To start with, I don't have a strong opinion of 1 sad, so I'm not considering her more or less than any other randomly chosen lady
6 seal: at the time I arrived in thread, having read her posts, I wasn't a fan. Posts like 203, 211, 302 read as tonally scummy to me. I think there was a notable shift in the way they posted after I showed up in thread that makes me like them more; maybe I'm biased because I agreed with her.
7 blue: The only thing that stuck out about you to me was your reads in 312, in which I thought it was too early for the read on 8 Ghost and disagreed with the read on 6 Seal. After my initial proposal, which was to 8 Ghost, I went back and looked at some of your posts more closely and you felt straightforward/town to me. If given the choice, I'd dance with you if 8 Ghost doesn't work out - though that doesn't align with my initial reasoning for choosing 8 Ghost and you may find my selection in partners to be scummy.
8 ghost: I'll link to posts that made me think they have the capacity to be scum: 197, 202, 210, 212, 225. These posts are different than her current posting, I feel.
He gives examples of what he was thinking in regards to his read on me (the part where i have a capacity to be scum)
In post 401, Lady 8 wrote:I can probably look at Lady 7 objectively now
since she's no longer my rival.
To me it seems like Ghosty 8 has already decided that they'd be pairing with me at this point.
Post 477 tingles my suspicions; pairing with the IC in Ghosty 8's position would actually be bad if she were mafia, because the general consensus has shifted to think she is town.
The way she talks about me in 408 fuels my suspicion as well. If she is mafia, she's likely decided that she wants to accept my proposal, is what I think... I can see town her feeling 'possessive' I guess, with this post and 477.
@Blue 7 it's your initial reasoning but in reverse, Lady 8 would want to pair with me if they were, mafia, probably...
Am I the only person who is seeing things like this?
One of the few posts where Gent 5 expresses paranoia of me. These make me extremely hot and bothered, i wish he had more paranoia towards me sometimes. Makes me feel safer in a way
In post 1070, Gentleman 8 wrote:i honestly don't understand why anyone thinks lady 6 is town. tbh she's the most likely to be scum among the ladies, from what ive read
(◡﹏◡✿)
But why tho?
She feels manipulative to me, it's hard to describe.
I think we are falling into a trap of only thinking the low effort player slots are scum
In post 1625, Gentleman 9 wrote:Gentleman 9 - Lady 3
Gentleman 8 - Lady 5
Gentleman 5 - Lady 8
At the moment this is where I am, with gent 1/lady 7 in consideration depending on how gent 1 feels
But I'm not ready to advance to the end right now
No delusions of trying to save Lady 2. So just in like Gent 6's case, Gent 5 needs to play as the sole survivor. He should probably hard bus Lady 2 for maximum cred. Lets continue
and vs his revised opinion on me (which may have something to do with how I was treating his pair?)
Can I have a hint? I am not really sure how to answer this.
Maybe I am having trouble because I don't have a flip to work with. I think in general as scum trying to distance you want to target the town player. It acts as you pushing on your buddy but since you are pushing on an uninformed individual it doubles as natural interactions. Although this sequence is incredibly predictable so I am not sure how it would work in practice.
This game is nightless so scum pushing or choosing to not push is very up in the air and depends entirely on the individual player.
Gent 9 and Gent 2 were both pushing on me, and I don't remember anyone else doing so. A few people have been neutral but not a real push on me.
Up until recently, there hasn't been much talk of Ghosty 8 either.
When I'm looking at people I suspect to be mafia, I see them as thinking both me and Ghosty 8 are town
Well his main suspects are Gent 9 and Gent 2 (similar to me at the time). Eliminating those two pairs would preserve Lady 2 to the next phase. However:
In post 1358, Lady 2 wrote:I haven't accepted G4 yet, but I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.
Gentleman 4, I graciously accept your offer to dance.
Well, I asked you what you thought of the remaining pairs. I was hoping you'd be able to explain your decision to leave Gent 2 or Gent 7 out of the dance since you're narrowing things down by choosing Gent 4.
In post 1358, Lady 2 wrote:I feel like I've waited long enough for anyone who wanted to voice an objection.
i... i did?
You did?
After looking through your ISO I do see one comment about G4 being your preferred strand, sorry about that, but if you wanted me to hold off you should have just said "L2, please hold off for now."
In post 1486, Lady 2 wrote:I still think it was right though because G4 seems like someone I'll be able to read pretty confidently with enough time.
I don't think Lady 2 ever responded to me
Not to 1212 where I ask who the best elimination is, nor to 1483 after. They say they waited long enough for anyone to voice 'an objection'. Yet they didn't really look into it, is my guess. Or they didn't care. There were at least 2 people to respond to before going through with it, Gent 8 and me.
I think this is suspicious, because Lady 2 does not want to end up with Gent 7 (because they will both end up dead, very likely), yet still potentially wants Gent 7 to pair with somebody else, so she needs to pair up at that moment, while trying not to look too hasty by "giving people time to object".
VOTE: Gent 4/Lady 2
This is a great analysis of Lady 2. Maybe he knows her well and can bus her as such. In any case he doesnt seem concerned with saving her here, this is a hard bus. This is before the whole G2/L4 push.
In post 2094, Gentleman 5 wrote:I was just posting about that, Gent 8. At this point in time, Gent 7 is still unpaired and Lady 2 pairs with Gent 4.
I'm not sure how to feel about this. I don't think Lady 2 wants to pair with Gent 7, I felt like Lady 2, even though she gave time, didn't really consider what I and others had to say and went ahead with her pairing anyway
In post 2106, Gentleman 5 wrote:I have Gent 4 as hard null, so your pair makes the most sense to get rid of at this point in time.
What do you think?
The thing about G4 is that I feel like he's been playing very similarly to me. Engaging and analyzing, prioritizing discussion over conclusions, and just generally trying to get his thoughts out there and say things that make sense. That's one of the reasons that I wanted to pair with him, beyond just townreading him. I thought we would work well together and he also doesn't seem the type to impulsively walk out on me.
I guess it's not really surprising that people are reading him as null. But it is surprising that people are reading him as null while having stronger reads on me, who is doing much of the same things.
I feel like his play has been by and large without agenda and geared toward contributing to the town's discussion rather than misleading it. I also feel like if he's scum and was planning to go longterm he would be more preoccupied with picking a lady that has survivability, because at the time he proposed to me I think public opinion was mostly not liking me.
Essentially I like what he has been saying and don't see any scum agenda so if he's scum either he's just not planning to endgame at all (in which case I would think he'd probably shut up and not give associations) or he is and he's just hoping that the reads on our pairing magically come around to being townier without him doing anything. Which is not impossible. But Occam's razor says it's unlikely.
Lady 2 convinces Gent 5 to scumread Gent 4 less, causing him to unvote
Feel like Gent 5 would probably rather scumread Lady 2 over Gent 4 here! Him taking her advice to not scumread Gent 4 seems a bit odd. He needs towncred for when he busses Lady 2 down the line, this isn't consistent with a plan like that
In post 2491, Gentleman 9 wrote:If I had a readlist that has everyone at null is that shady?
I don't agree that that is what is happening in that reads list
Unrelated to that, I don't really like gent 2. Or at least I'm not confident in him being town. I think I psyched myself out because other people thought he could be town, but does anybody hard townread him and lady 4 both?
VOTE: Gent 2/Lady 4
Gent 5 was a big leader of the Gent 2 wagon, don't really see why he'd go out of his way to do that. My behaviour of sticking onto Gent 4 / Lady 2 until forced to vote elsewhere somewhat against my will makes more sense as a scum plan IMO. There was nothing saving Lady 2, you need towncred, not making memes and hardpushing Gent 2!
BRO -- gent 5 is terrible at bussing Lady 2. Although this vote has an unusual circumstance -- he asked me in our PT who I prefer, and he'd vote there. I said I preferred G4/L2, so he supported me
In post 3877, Lady 3 wrote:I think I want 5-8 now. L8ghost's takes are lukewarm
Do you want me to convince you that this is a bad idea? What is lukewarm about her?
(Lady 1 is also town)
He's so protective over me!! Makes me happy but probably not as safe-feeling about his alignment as him suspecting me, if that makes sense
In post 4015, Gentleman 5 wrote:Lady 8 has thoughts about the game that feel real, and that don't seem to have an agenda attached. When you play as the mafia in this setup, you need to scumread other pairs to justify keeping your own pair alive. Lady 8 tends to townread a lot of people (which is also where I'm at) and has pairings to make it to the end which doesn't include our pair. And has extras that she needs to sort through on top of that, it's not how I expect scum to play the setup.
As I mentioned, I've been thinking the same things as her/agreeing with her as well. And that makes me trust her more as well - she has a lot of good opinions, and I don't expect scum to emulate that as effectively.
The counterargument to the above points would be that she is simply trying to appear as town for the finale. I don't think the way she is going about this game is indicative of that, though.
She reads as genuine to me in the pt, including frustrations with people criticizing the way she plays, which feels genuine (lady 1 also did this).
Reading her posts since dance start, there's nothing that makes me believe she is scum, only things that are neutral, and things which seem town indicative. And posts with good tone.
I don't think not having strong stances is scummy here because she is discussing things and this game state is hard and it makes sense, and scum can just force reads anyway - there's no reason to keep waffling when it's drawing the ire of other players.
This is a really good towncase on me. But I might be biased. Let me know if you're reading this and disagree, but it does make me feel better. Seeing this does remind me that i am
somewhat disproportionately towny to Gent 5 as compared to how other people read me
[Lady 1, Lady 3, Lady 7, Lady 8]
[Gent 1, Gent 6, Gent 9, Lady 6]
[Gent 3, Gent 4, Lady 2]
Something like this I want to eliminate the Gent 4/Lady 2 pair less than what it looks like here
Don't really know why he includes the extra comment at the end if he's trying to bus Lady 2.
In post 4115, Gentleman 5 wrote:OK but like, I was pushing gent 2 earlier. Why does my vote being off at the time matter?
His pushback to Lady 5's dislike of my pair seems a little much for scum. Like Lady 5 was saying that we should be removed in the event L2/G4 flips town (albeit, for a really far-out reason). I don't see why scum Gent 5 has to worry about that so much. Town Gent 5 however would know he's in a T-T pair and wants to contest Lady 5's bad reasoning. Scum Gent 5 doesnt have to care. We watch as Gent 5 comes off a little defensive, and as scum he has no reason to be.
In post 4856, Lady 3 wrote:G5 is towny enough I think and has a kind of, anti-charisma adjacent style that I don't think comes from a scum mindset. e.g. like waltzing into today asking why he was suspected still resonates with me as a really strange thing to do as scum who's basically set to f2*2. I'll trust whoever's around later to sort this out but he doesn't feel like scum.
In post 4566, Gentleman 1 wrote:it would have let everyone think about their reads during intermission
So what are the rest of your reads?
scumreads on G3 and G9
L3 eh, kinda thought they were town coming into this phase but I'm not sure how to handle this play rn
L8 light TR
L6 pretty strong TR
L7, L1, G6 strong TRs
How is it possible for him to be scumreading all of me, gent 3, and gent 9 at this stage of the game?
