Mini 2167: Illicit Substances Mafia (Game Over!)

[Remilia Scarlet]

maybe a am just a moron like my psychiatrist says

[Remilia Scarlet]

muffin where is scum at for you

i think this whole line of questioning has solidfied you into townland

[Remilia Scarlet]

the only interesting thing about it is that you had to have made all the assumptions you're making about the setup prior to claiming when you didn't know what other power town had and as a result shouldn't have known what power scum had to counter it

i still am never going to know what power scum has to counter anything unless they flip, but my reactions were to the combination of maid / 420 / april in regard to my own role and that seemed like a bridge too far to me

[Remilia Scarlet]

only reason i claimed is because i wanted people to know why i thought that

[Remilia Scarlet]

if that was a shit move, well, wouldn't be the first one i've made

[Remilia Scarlet]

I still think doc++, weak neighborizer, and my role is just a really strong combo and i think 420 is the thing that doesn't belong and i don't know what else to do to qualify that

If you're town did you ever consider a... toelvloxker???!!?

Rolvleocker. Roleblocker. Roleblocker there we go I'm good at this I swear

Or maybe a c shit string man strongman x shot

oh you've decided to play

strongman flip in particular would get me to change my tune here, sure, that's the one thing that probably gets by all this shit

where are you at w/ the game?

p-edit: man that is the fucking slimiest vote in the world

[Remilia Scarlet]

hella

[Remilia Scarlet]

fucking iso my fucking games if you're so fucking concerned about my meta

[Remilia Scarlet]

maybe imperishable night or something?

that did happen and i felt fucking horrible about it

[Remilia Scarlet]

Dude chill. It’s a hell of a lot faster to ask you directly.

I don't even know if i can answer this honestly. I'm sure I've fake claimed before, and I'm sure I've made up my own fakeclaims before

[Remilia Scarlet]

not the impression i got from that post lol

but do tell how there's scum motivation behind that

[Remilia Scarlet]

Dude chill. It’s a hell of a lot faster to ask you directly.

sorry. you didn't deserve that

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bell said would you 'ever' gambit like this as scum, implying this means you're town since you might not ever

i don't agree and i don't really have anything else to say about it

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm claiming, fuck it.

Brotherhood, Last Resort ("Catch You When You Fall Bro")

If scum were to hammer me, at ELO, game will not end, VC will be reset, and my role PM will be posted in the thread.

[Remilia Scarlet]

did you even know that when you made 4877

[Remilia Scarlet]

mollie once called me a "white boy who can't dance" which is probably pretty accurate.

As town I'm not going to gambit
As scum, well, i'm probably going to do whatever i think i can get away with doing to win

[Remilia Scarlet]

i guess i'm just suspicious of the person who has more to offer in the last 10 minutes than they did all game before that

p-edit: @muffin that's exactly what i'm suggesting

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm like the anti april

and maybe there's not much to be said for that when his record is what he says it is and mine is this

[Remilia Scarlet]

i guess i'm just suspicious of the person who has more to offer in the last 10 minutes than they did all game before that

what's suspicious?

420's posting seems motivated by the potentiality of getting eliminated today rather than by any magical actual sudden desire to play

and the I'm not paying attention schtick at this point just seems like a way to zigzag the "i'm too lazy to be scum" trope

[Remilia Scarlet]

Rejoice, for the almighty sync has been achieved, and the five stages of grief conquered.

Rejoice, for the waffle has been eaten, and then litterbox'd.

Rejoice, for VOTE: PlusJoyed

Rejoice, for bork gets his wish.

REJOICE FOR ALSO FUCKING WISH I COULD VOTE MARIA AGAIN

...this is a weird fucking time for this all to occur

[Remilia Scarlet]

what specifically about plus sticks out to you now of all times

[Remilia Scarlet]

It was inevitable.

everything plus did substantively he did in D1
I actually thought he had reasonable reactions to the maid stuff in particular

but you said he was town then and you seemed pretty confident about it so can you be a little more specific

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think it's 100% maria at this point. What town bomb doens't even fucking well bother to login?

dude

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don't think mafia "yeet you out of the thread" role yeets them out of the thread night one unless like mafia somehow KNOWS they're 100% gonna blow up on scum. Which would mean its a you-notsci team which lolnope.jpg

what does not logging in have to do w/ any of that

[Remilia Scarlet]

You telling me you wouldnt have been super duper fucking excited to blow up scum if you were a town suicidal dayvig who was sure of your read?

so you're stipulating that they knew they knew what was going to happen ahead of time and have not bothered to log into the account since?

[Remilia Scarlet]

i mean mods are sending everything to my main as well as my hydra account so i guess it's entirely possible they felt no need to login after they got PMs and saw no weird funny business? and read the thread
but that is really flimsy to me and is straining the bounds of credulity and really doesn't answer my Q about plus

[Remilia Scarlet]

guessing given circumstances though (replacement) they prob have PT access on their mains

can confirm

[Remilia Scarlet]

Do you think mafia day-thread-yeeter actually cares to stop them, unless they're gonna 100% hit mafia?

i can really only speculate, depends on what the powers in question actually do

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm around but otherwise occupied this evening; i'll be back in earnest tomm

[Remilia Scarlet]

To be entirely honest part of me is hoping I get confirmed overnight by April.

Where do yoI guys want to vote? Joyed?

Yep.

why am i scum again morph?

A re-read of day one, I see a lot of associatives between you and MariaBoy. I also found the way you handled remelia and 420/prism to be awkward upon re-read. I was giving you a lot of slack but it's clear that was in error.

I'm not giving anything else away here, lest i get reverse engineered.

I'm trying to explore this in a way that is fact-finding and not accusatory:

I take an issue with a good portion of this being due to associations with an unflipped person
I can guess the interactions between me and plus on D1; this was a lot of what I pointed to earlier but you found it utterly un-compelling at the time
What's the issue w/ the interaction w/ the 420 slot because I find that to be honestly the most reasonable position plus has taken all game
I'm also just unsure why you think 420's just not an option for you other than the strength of the claim in and of itself. Any interactions w/ plus and 420 (or plus and me, really) are also unflipped

[Remilia Scarlet]

We're not voting muffin today.

can agree here not going anywhere near a muffin wagon

[Remilia Scarlet]

like the fact that you really want to indict partners of maid cafe for being partners of maid cafe right now seems fucking crazy to me considering they possible come in here and confirm tomorrow

which basically removes any chance of this argument being made later

[Remilia Scarlet]

I will likely defend 420 incredibly hard today. I anything, i think they’re a d3 flip.

I know capriciousness is your defining characteristic but why

[Remilia Scarlet]

Rejoice, for VOTE: PlusJoyed

Rejoice, for bork gets his wish.

this really just feels like it was for my benefit and in lieu of this you could've explained why you were changing your tune

[Remilia Scarlet]

UNVOTE:

[Remilia Scarlet]

REJOICE FOR ALSO FUCKING WISH I COULD VOTE MARIA AGAIN

need transparency here now like right this second

[Remilia Scarlet]

I am really glad this post is this post and not a different post.

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: plusjoyed

[Remilia Scarlet]

this could've gotten weird and you made it not weird and i think that's all i really wanted

[Remilia Scarlet]

i guess we'll find out

[Remilia Scarlet]

He town read the investigative claim.

i mean if you're town and he's scum of course he did

[Remilia Scarlet]

Maybe we'll get back into the groove with a scum flip. Maybe we'll snap out of it with another town flip.

are you like literally just fucking trying to make me as crazy as possible here

[Remilia Scarlet]

didn't really satisfy PlusJoyed's concerns either

how does that make you feel about the vote?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Joyed isn’t gambitty enough or doing enough with the various random people who’ve been reaction testing (such as April, I almost feel like town joyed would be way more interested in the reactions to April than he is here)

gambity enough?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Nobody could be 100% sure that Joy is scum here.

His buddies would be

In the eternal words of Bork, are you serious.

he is fucking precious

[Remilia Scarlet]

TBH, I am guilty of saying what Midwaybear said a few times. Except I usually add a little addendum about scenarios or realities or whatever.

i think he's got a certain sense of wonder about the game that scum just doesn't emit

[Remilia Scarlet]

Would you think that I'd just ignore a scumread's misinterpretation of the mindset behind my words simply because they're a scumread?

didn't say you'd ignore it, asked how it meshed with your expectations

[Remilia Scarlet]

@bork- in my two games with him he

Replaced in d2 and repeatedly stated he would auto vote me (tvt) in cylo to try and bait scum

Self voted d1 to try and reaction test and check the wagon on him (again tvt)

fair enough, i get the experience shown here

you've identified the absence of a certain behavior. there are many potential reasons for that, not all of which are alignment indicative

[Remilia Scarlet]

Would you think that I'd just ignore a scumread's misinterpretation of the mindset behind my words simply because they're a scumread?

didn't say you'd ignore it, asked how it meshed with your expectations

It didn't surprise me. His interpretations of other players' statements have felt really off before. When we talk about PlusJoyed posts en hydra the descriptions get pretty algorithmic.

i don't really know what to do with this

off in what way?

[Remilia Scarlet]

I’m concerned I’m wrong because bulge was present for both and is townreading him though.

what you said before is the sort of thing i am inclined to call "armchair meta"

you saw a specific behavior a certain time(s) as a certain alignment, and are not seeing it here

i think there are a lot of reasons to behave different from game to game.
different size
different playerlist
different role
different opening
etc.

this is why ffery and i have a different opening every game and we go through the same crap every game about it. we don't approach games in the same way

not saying any of this is an endorsement of plus. I am voting plus at the moment. it's low risk and we're checking the corners of the room.
but holy shit are we in a situation where i'm uncomfortable w/ the state of things and i'm trying to figure out from what angle the weirdness is coming from

[Remilia Scarlet]

Off from how we read the same posts. Their reasons for scumreading you, the emotions they ascribed to you. That's almost exactly how their interpretation of my posts felt. Just ascribing a very different mindset than what I'm actually thinking and feeling.

but how is this alignment indicative to you????

[Remilia Scarlet]

ST do you feel me at least a little bit?

[Remilia Scarlet]

like you cut in at opportune times usually w/ pretty interesting takes on things and it's one of the reasons that you just seem to ding me as town any time you end up on a page i'm on

[Remilia Scarlet]

I do NOT understand why we're having this conversation, Bork.

ok, step back a minute and make me understand why you think that

and realize you don't get to have it both ways w/ the "why is there no suspicion here" and the post you just made.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I feel you
where else are you looking today if not plus?

in progress

not considering {bulge, april}
don't want {midway, muffin, st}

anything else just let's hold on about sorry

[Remilia Scarlet]

You're going to have to ask me a different question, or point me at the post where I went off on a tangent from what you're trying to get at.

sorry, i really don't understand

[Remilia Scarlet]

i feel like i asked "why is plus off in the way you meant"
and you responded with just a bunch of vague stuff
and i'm trying to figure out what you're talking about

i'm sorry if you feel i'm being fucking dense

i'm trying to be explicit

[Remilia Scarlet]

Just ascribing a very different mindset than what I'm actually thinking and feeling.

trying to figure out what is propping plus in particular popping up to the front of your list and i don't feel like this is helpful to me

[Remilia Scarlet]

maybe my misinterpretation is assuming that's influencing your read

i'm losing track of this conversation

[Remilia Scarlet]

I was absent and she's doing her best.

she literally could've just said that

[Remilia Scarlet]

I have some VERY experimental but spicy data, combined with a re-read of the entire plusjoyed ISO in "i re-read this from scratch" mode that makes me get Mini Megabyte vibes. I was willing to give a pass on stuff I really shouldn't be, and I feel like plus is emulating some things that he has seen other good scum players do fairly recently.

I REALLY don't want to have to burn this tell unless it becomes a matter of "nobody believes morph is town, they're gonna be voted out, so let's get this though in the thread"

fuck that

[Remilia Scarlet]

By "off" I didn't mean scummy.

ok. ignore everything else i had to say there then

[Remilia Scarlet]

In a way, her not doing that is her way of accepting the read. Morph, when it being an active cat, is really posting as a unified front. I feel like her chat with you is her way of "owning" the read as both of ours and not just mine.

this is an implementation detail of the hydra and not a way you should expect me to interface with it

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm glad you caught the programmer humor at least

what's the prize?

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'll stick here.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Not just this hydra. The forest fire micro and nacho's RBD scumread are an even more extreme example of me doing my thing, supporting my partner's read even if I don't fully understand it/we haven't fully talked it out, and letting the chips fall where they may.

i think we were too busy yelling at each other to play that one

[Remilia Scarlet]

Town, Town, Town, Town

you shouldn;t have gone first but

T
T
T
T

[Remilia Scarlet]

i am going to ask you some things later.

[Remilia Scarlet]

@morph

[Remilia Scarlet]

there's a distinct difference between F/GO and this game in this particular regard.

but continue.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I felt like we calmed down fairly quickly.

eh maybe i thought it got heated

[Remilia Scarlet]

T
T
S
S

[Remilia Scarlet]

Town
Scum
Town
Scum

FUCKING


GOTTEM

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOAT BELL

[Remilia Scarlet]

S
T
T

dr. freud it's to you

[Remilia Scarlet]

i have 2 PRs as scum

[Remilia Scarlet]

oh fun

[Remilia Scarlet]

Okay, back to working on the results then. Go ahead and tell us that we're not confirmed town doing this, bork, and i'll grab a cheeky "but we are mwahahaha" reply or something.

[Remilia Scarlet]

i want april to do this just so muffin can do a "is this your final answer" routine

[Remilia Scarlet]

i don't have to be the first to think of an idea i just have to be the first to market it correctly

[Remilia Scarlet]

our Ford and our Freud in one night

Huxley would approve

[Remilia Scarlet]

nah

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm claiming, fuck it.

Brotherhood, Last Resort ("Catch You When You Fall Bro")

If scum were to hammer me, at ELO, game will not end, VC will be reset, and my role PM will be posted in the thread.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Brotherhood is role flavor name, "Last Resort" is like what would be there in place of "Cop"

"Catch You When You Fall Bro" is ability flavor name, and Last Resort is also the thing that would say "Investigate" if I were a cop, etc.

[Remilia Scarlet]

if i parse my flavor i'm someone who enjoys a Children's Card Game

[Remilia Scarlet]

I caught myself thankyouverymuch. MafSepia is the nopost skin.

i see you also enjoy the Remiliasepia experience

[Remilia Scarlet]

if i parse my flavor i'm someone who enjoys a Children's Card Game

wouldn't have occurred to me to lead w/ this though it's all in a blurb that i didn't think it relevant to share

[Remilia Scarlet]

Probably yugioh reference.

got it in one

[Remilia Scarlet]

(it said yugioh, i'm the one who translated to "Children's card game" to be clear)

[Remilia Scarlet]

Definitely have toyed with making an ability name of "Screw the rules, I have money" but haven't found the right spot for it

future mod meta right here get it while its hot

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: 420

Not gonna lie, I'd appreciate Bork confirming the way his is laid out too.

420-Maid-??? Almost feels too easy but maybe?

yeah 'hope is a hell of a drug' is just my wincon name. it's kinda goofy in that the flavor for the wincon comes before the declaration of the name of the wincon

and if you're certain that town white mage is a thing that came from nacho in some sense it really shouldn't matter that he bonered the claim a little bit?

[Remilia Scarlet]

Then zmuffin came in and destroyed our galaxy brain high.

It was our fuckup, so.

i don't care that you literally misread what he did; pretend he hypothetically didn't correct himself for the moment

i care that you went "420 said 'hope is a hell of a drug' is my ability name" and was like "Hah! It's actually NOT and I can prove it" and decided he was scum for it. I want to know what the thought process was behind that decision

[Remilia Scarlet]

You continue to be a bigger disappointment than I was to my dad.

But don't worry, I'm sure your re-read and reset is coming any second now.

assuming you're just taking the piss here, correct me if i am wrong

[Remilia Scarlet]

he seems nonplussed

upvote

[Remilia Scarlet]

kinda feel like i'm not getting through here but i need to go get ice cream

[Remilia Scarlet]

foooooooooooooood

telllllllllllllll

[Remilia Scarlet]

(i don't actually know where that comes from)

[Remilia Scarlet]

I feel like this is a phenomenon that really seems to have taken over our chats this game.

...

[Remilia Scarlet]

by way of lazily botched claim

what makes 'lazily botched claim' come from scum in particular is the question i'm trying to get at

p-edit: i don't think i'm being particularly difficult this game.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think i understand where you're coming from. Back in a bit.

[Remilia Scarlet]

ok; i think ultimately i agree w/ 5630 that you walked this back in a way that really does seem like it is much ado about nothing

[Remilia Scarlet]

Anything else you particularly care about at present?

Eh, yeah.

I want this whole PR soup to clean itself up in a way that I guess I'm not super confident it's going to before it's too late, esp if + flips town.
I still wish we would've gone 420 today; I don't care about the claim kerfuffle wrt to 420 slot itself; I just don't think there's any particular guarantee that that role is likely town, and play doesn't seem particularly motivated by solving. I guess I get the motivation for eliming outside of the claims today but the complete lack of transparency on where maid is and if they'll be back is frustrating
I feel pretty good about Muffin and ST right now. I really want to bank those reads.
I know I keep getting weird on you guys but overall i think it keeps continually resolving itself in a way that makes me think when i'm not seeing eye to eye w/ you on something it's because we're crossing wires and not for other reasons

that's really all i have

[Remilia Scarlet]

Busy.
Rem, has GIF still not spoken to you in your PT?

we weren't using the PT, but:

Is gif talking with you at all?

nah, sometimes i will unidirectionally communicate but he's checked out, although he never officially said that to me
@everyone: assume unless I say otherwise GIF isn't a factor, yeah?

stop trying to make GIF happen. he is not going to happen.

[Remilia Scarlet]

christ

[Remilia Scarlet]

gj town, I was scum. Mafia 1 shot rolecop.
My lips will be otherwise pretty tight to not reveal my partners but I have a lot to talk about post game. I did really love this PList

don't think i've ever seen scum just start info dumping during twilight like this

[Remilia Scarlet]

My true flavor was exploitation

on the other hand lol i don't fucking know

[Remilia Scarlet]

Lmao okay quickwagon midwayscum if plus flips green, which I do think happens, midway literally your only hope is he flips red.

-innocentvillager

this pings me a bit, like you know what midway did looks bad but you're giving him a prophetic out

[Remilia Scarlet]

Rolecop, silencer, goon?

Better have more the fuck than that if all PRs are what they say they are.

Limited shot roleblock?

[Remilia Scarlet]

That pings you and not me blatantly trying to derail the wagon?

Not necessarily

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm paranoing in my head RN about Gif giving Bork a fake claim because I'm silly and that's unlikely.

also if you think fucking gif of all people is afraid to post because we're scum and he's leaving me out to dry but is still willing to pitch in w/ helpful advice like that, well, lol.

like even if i were scum i would consider it unethical to lie about his relationship with the game. I'd replace into my main but I think that'd just inconvenience people at this point

[Remilia Scarlet]

And that just because he doesn't have enough time to post in thread, doesn't mean you couldn't skim the game state, realize you were fucked if things continued and gave you a wonderful wrench to throw.

ok, well, he didn't
the end

[Remilia Scarlet]

i don't think communicating w/ april on this is a great idea

I think overall this is pretty null on midway, esp if + is scum it's likely he was just not paying attention which isn't indicative to me.

got jazz stuff for an hour back later if this is open

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think April should target between us or muffin candidly

Are you kidding me
no, not you in 1000 years

not saying I want to point april anywhere
but what's wrong w/ these choices in particular?

[Remilia Scarlet]

continue the thought

[Remilia Scarlet]

There's no way for sure to know that you are scum from that.

what did you mean when you said this

[Remilia Scarlet]

So are you fine with April visiting Secret Tunnels?

Irrelevant to the question i asked

[Remilia Scarlet]

But you don't expect that if they lock in someone you think is town?

[Remilia Scarlet]

I just don't expect any conclusive results to occur tonight

duly noted

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm just me

[Remilia Scarlet]

although i think we're 0-2?

we should fix that

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm gonna tell him you said that

[Remilia Scarlet]

i give this an interesting / 10

[Remilia Scarlet]

need much adult

p-edit: maid is anything but cleared right now on account of literally being uninteractable in the game for 2 days

[Remilia Scarlet]

What kind of role is literally capable of removing player for multiple game days.

I literally think the only option at this point is maid like day-commuting or some shit

[Remilia Scarlet]

and i consider that a bastard mechanic

it's like the opposite of natis game where there's a player you didn't think you could vote but you can

in this case there's one you thought you could that i guess you just can't ever

[Remilia Scarlet]

for certain values of quickly

[Remilia Scarlet]

Like you realize that the plusjoyed ISO reeks of "too much insider info" about the mechanics of maid's thread-departures right?

I'm not super sure how that helps atm

[Remilia Scarlet]

anyone get a daystart PM? I did not this time

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don't really think Plus chooses to stick up for his scumbuddy in such a manner because he doesn't seem like the way to tie himself to buddies like this especially with Maid under serious heat. Based on how he has posted, I don't think Plus is someone to take a particularly hard stance on a scumbuddy and he would rather put them in null zone which makes this quote somewhat of a strong anti-association for me.

how is this plus calling maid town? it doesn't read like a defense of maid it's just a lazy jab at me

[Remilia Scarlet]

cabdffery i think your Q was just answered

[Remilia Scarlet]

well actually this raises some questions too

global roleblock doesn't quite fit here

[Remilia Scarlet]

maid not being able to post really flies in the face of a global roleblock being a thing

under what rules there would maid not be able to post

[Remilia Scarlet]

It being something one can self-inflict is borderline bastard.

It being something that others can inflict multiple game phases in a row is so anti-fun that I'd go as far as to say the moderator would owe me an apology postgame and I'd hesitate to trust them again.

right here too; i think the latter is a much much more salient point if you think about it though; the former cannot possibly keep up forever

[Remilia Scarlet]

If someone thinks it’s weird I got a message, I agree, but it happened.

I don't think that's weird actually, if you just don't see someone added to the hood my first inclination would be to assume mod forgot; this would prove otherwise

[Remilia Scarlet]

So are we sure that this Global Roleblock didn’t happen.

Cannot prove personally but it still doesn't explain why maid can't be interacted with:

1) if maid did an ability, why wasn't that blocked too
2) if someone else did it, why was maid silenced again
3) if this is part of maid's role, why didn't it happen N1 too

[Remilia Scarlet]

Yeah, I did. I specifically got a message from mod saying my action was unsuccessful (If someone thinks it’s weird I got a message, I agree, but it happened. It’s actually not that bad because I didn’t get anyone in my neighborhood, and i didn’t die, so I would assume as much happened.

this is a nexus point of focus

we have the following "weird shit"

1) no kill
2) april no result
3) maid not around

i think a regular roleblock can explain 1 and 2 and 3 if we assume that maid is responsible for maid doing maid things

[Remilia Scarlet]

as in you targeted an ascetic person?

[Remilia Scarlet]

And why wouldn’t I have gotten roleblocked Night 1?

i think the gamestate is a lot more clear N2 than it was N1

[Remilia Scarlet]

actually hold the fuck on what if april just tried to kill and neighborize in the same night

[Remilia Scarlet]

what if april was a scum neighborizer that was trying to do NK + neighborize in the same night and got roleblocked

[Remilia Scarlet]

nevermind that requires a town roleblocker

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm a fucking moron

[Remilia Scarlet]

the obvious thing to do here is go directly to N3

honestly i agree with this 100% considering we're at evens

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: no elim

[Remilia Scarlet]

i am def not assuming that lol

[Remilia Scarlet]

yeah give time, obv don't end day right this second

[Remilia Scarlet]

not assuming anything at this point. stuff did not happen the same way today as yesterday

[Remilia Scarlet]

a reasonable conclusion?

reasonable but unfalsifiable. i'm curious to hear your extended thoughts vs just reacting in the moment.

[Remilia Scarlet]

nah hold the fuck on for a sec

[Remilia Scarlet]

Ascetic scum

man this seems like a hard pill to swallow unless you got legit roleblocked

like if they're asectic and scum and "you die if you target scum" i'd still feel like you should die if you hit them but they would not get added to the hood which is clearly not what happened

[Remilia Scarlet]

can we wait on 420 before we get fucking weird here

[Remilia Scarlet]

like if they're asectic and scum and "you die if you target scum" i'd still feel like you should die if you hit them but they would not get added to the hood which is clearly not what happened

can you ostensibly verify or unverify these hypotheticals w/ nacho?

[Remilia Scarlet]

you realise that if you are town and died and bulge was the kill choice, you'd have fucked over this game single-handedly right?

like literally single-handedly put the game at evens and probably straight to mylo

seriously going to fucking fight whoeever wants to elim muffin at this point

[Remilia Scarlet]

god if i ever hear the term 'scum equity' again it'll be too soon

[Remilia Scarlet]

Start there:

viewtopic.php?p=5501380#p5501380

I NEVER accept a fake guilty on me again. Wake was town and he threw the game.

Bork you remember this game.

you're really quick to dismiss scum foul play here

[Remilia Scarlet]

Start there:

viewtopic.php?p=5501380#p5501380

I NEVER accept a fake guilty on me again. Wake was town and he threw the game.

Bork you remember this game.

you're really quick to dismiss scum foul play here

That's why I've asked you how this can happen.

Give me a reasonable explanation and I'll back off.

april got roleblocked by scum, 420 protected the kill

[Remilia Scarlet]

i can confirm that april intended to target morph, and that the high risk play was specifically acknowledged

So you got blocked April?

Yeah, I did. I specifically got a message from mod saying my action was unsuccessful (If someone thinks it’s weird I got a message, I agree, but it happened. It’s actually not that bad because I didn’t get anyone in my neighborhood, and i didn’t die, so I would assume as much happened.

There’s also the possibility of me targeting Ascetic, and then me getting Night Killed.

And then you said you targeted Zmuffin.

it has to be april / bulge to you then, right?

[Remilia Scarlet]

i'm waiting for 420 but if 420 says nothing of value i am on team muffin here planwise

[Remilia Scarlet]

I’m also fine with a muffin clown

no, not what i'm saying

[Remilia Scarlet]

Bork talk to me about the bear.

5949

was really not a good post and seems like a potential non-reason to call maid town

[Remilia Scarlet]

I think we just fade in Zmuffin/Morph today, tbh

let me make this perfectly clear since it seems like it wasn't when i said it:

I want to do what muffin said to do (NL here since it doesn't lose us a day)
I do not want to elim muffin today or any day

p-edit: fair enough, and that's not a bad point. even so i think muffin is town.

[Remilia Scarlet]

I’m never no fading today

yeah, upon rethinking i agree.

UNVOTE:

[Remilia Scarlet]

I still feel like you've been setting this up forever and if you're town, like I said. No forgiveness and much shouting.

I was certain that Wake was town in that game where he faked a guilty on me. I came up with insane reasons for him to get a guilty result. And then he outed after I was hammered that he wasn't a cop. That was a gamethrow.

And I will always consider anything like that an intentional gamethrow when a town player does things like that

i keep coming back to this and I can't shake that this is the sort of thing scum say when they're obliged to have to 1v1 town in a closed.

Wake is fucking wake lol and is gonna do dumb shit every game and throwing someone else's meta at you and be like 'this is how i act when someone does dumb fucking crap to me' is not sitting well

[Remilia Scarlet]

Town
Scum
Town
Scum

FUCKING


GOTTEM

[Remilia Scarlet]

Rem, we'd really like to talk some game design thoughts out with you tonight, if you're around.

i'm here now

[Remilia Scarlet]

Do you feel like the possible options on what happened n2 are fully explored at this point?

fully explored? sure

fully vetted? not really. you make very little sense as a kill target last night with everything else floating around

[Remilia Scarlet]

like we've got, ostensibly:

420
april
me
bulge as confirmed town

why the hell does scum go after you

[Remilia Scarlet]

I dunno. Maybe scum thought we'd be the least likely potential threat to have gotten protection based on D1.

i mean, maybe, but if after D1 if you had to ask me 'is there any slot that likely garnered protection" you would've been in my top 2

[Remilia Scarlet]

What kind of scum team does us being the nk target suggest to you?

i'm not just assuming this is the reality we live in

[Remilia Scarlet]

What kind of scum team does us being the nk target suggest to you?

honestly the only person who can afford to kill you as scum and ignore a whole host of other shit would be april

[Remilia Scarlet]

I dunno. Maybe scum thought we'd be the least likely potential threat to have gotten protection based on D1.

i mean, maybe, but if after D1 if you had to ask me 'is there any slot that likely garnered protection" you would've been in my top 2

So, scum in players who don't know the heads of this hydra well? Does that make sense?

don't think that's really what i'm trying to say

you were solidly in your "leader" persona at the end of d1

[Remilia Scarlet]

I guess intentional nokill, is an option as well, although seems... not ideal.

why can't 420 just be full of shit here to 'clear' themselves?

[Remilia Scarlet]

what's 'non-ideal' about it

[Remilia Scarlet]

Unless you're thinking april-420

nah i think that's pretty much impossible based on setup spec

but note that april was blocked last night

[Remilia Scarlet]

My brain isn't firing on even half of the cylinders it possesses right now.

Where are we going with this, exactly?

If scum has a roleblocker i don't think they're on as much of a clock as you think

[Remilia Scarlet]

In a world where 420 is legitimate and you really were the kill target, April is probably just lying. As I said, I'm not convinced this is what's happening

[Remilia Scarlet]

don't think maid would work with 420 particularly well either

[Remilia Scarlet]

I guess intentional nokill, is an option as well, although seems... not ideal.

why can't 420 just be full of shit here to 'clear' themselves?

Who makes sense as scum with 420?

I don't really want to gutshot that but I'm looking for people who either binned 420 completely immediately or reacted w/ initial paranoia and then realized the rest of the town was into it so shifted into believing it. Less so people who are continually getting weird on the slot

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don't understand why those two statements are tied together.

what two statements?

[Remilia Scarlet]

420 being legitimate/we were the kill target and April lying.

because that's the only universe where i see you being an acceptable kill target over the "april and his conftown gang"

[Remilia Scarlet]

(or 420 themselves)

[Remilia Scarlet]

What did you think of how 420 revealed/interacted about his protect?

eh i'll admit that if 420 is scum and you're town there's really no motivation to have done it

[Remilia Scarlet]

at least not in that show-up-and-volunteer-it-immediately way

[Remilia Scarlet]

actually i don't know. if 420 flips red then anything about that statement becomes just WIFOM crap

[Remilia Scarlet]

Are you thinking multishot?

possibly, esp if maid's absence is part of role and not a scum interaction w/ maid

[Remilia Scarlet]

Not shooting within the PRs maaaybe suggests a PR is lying scum, though, given that 420 would have been more likely to protect someone claiming confirmable/investigative if he's a white mage

there weren't really any hard claims out at the end of D1

[Remilia Scarlet]

The value proposition of getting rid of you last night imo just isn't all that high to me.

[Remilia Scarlet]

having trouble following

[Remilia Scarlet]

I'm talking about last night's kill target. not the n1 protection.

well right but any N2 target coming from a scum team that 420 isn't on needs to take the N1 protection into account

[Remilia Scarlet]

I mean maybe I'm just super dumb, but i was operating under the assumption that the N1 protect was on april.

you were in my top 2, and they were the other one in my top 2

[Remilia Scarlet]

I don't think our play on day 1 after getting repeatedly kneecapped deserved protection

and at the same time you must also believe that 420 did in fact protect you

so you think the team is midway/maid?

[Remilia Scarlet]

VOTE: 420

this gamestate does not make sense in a world where 420 is town to me.

[Remilia Scarlet]

Pushing 420 is an extreme scum agenda if 420 is town, not gonna lie. I think 420's best to deal with tomorrow if people don't think they are.

durrrrr eliming 420 is soo scum motivated if he's town

no fucking shit.

even if you do believe that 420's town here
there's

no
fucking
universe

i allow any hypothetical scum team i am on kill morph last night

your princess is in another castle

[Remilia Scarlet]

Ignoring shrodinger's conftown, my reads look like
{Secret Tunnels, 420.......zmuffinman........Bell} (never really expected 420 to be this high, but here we are)
{Remilia}
{Midway}
{Maid}

I don't know what the fuck to do with this
you won't see things from my angle and I feel like any time I engage you on 420 I get an open ended question that you don't explain anything about like "what do you make of x" rather than "this is what you need to see that you're not seeing"

[Remilia Scarlet]

I also don’t understand Zmuffin town reads.

Can someone explain why Zmuffin is so townie.

the righteous indignance of someone who realized you had the possibility of ruining the game w/ your lack of transparency about targets

[Remilia Scarlet]

Frankly, if they thought they weren’t going to be alone as scum in lylo, it does make sense.

someone is hammering me at lylo. I will insist upon it.

[Remilia Scarlet]

his scum partner would have talked through the state of the game and the fact that there was an excellent chance town-us was getting elimed. Why derail that?

So you think that scum both targeted you and 420 protected you
While also thinking that 420 has to be town because scum 420 would've had a partner that talked them out of claiming a protect on you because you were so mislynchable

and you don't see the cogdis in those two statements

[Remilia Scarlet]

or we're just eating shit out of 420's hand because you've decided it's legitimate

[Remilia Scarlet]

Well I guess I won't have to wait too long [to be confirmed town] to happen.

I don't think I will die.

fuck if i know maybe i'm making this fucking stupid

you don't go and say "welp i guess i got nothing to live for and you'll see you're wrong soon" and then say "i'm not going down today so i don't have to answer your q"

[Remilia Scarlet]

if, tlaloc forbid, I end up in el-lo with you and 420, I promise you I'll do a full blank slate reset and reread this entire thread.

I do not want to be in this ELO