Open 796: Haunted Village Game Over

[MURDERCAT]

1174 is the most high effort post I've ever seen from Noraa and it makes me super nervous

[MURDERCAT]

I don't think BM's posts about being saved tonight are fake to be honest

[MURDERCAT]

1174 is the most high effort post I've ever seen from Noraa and it makes me super nervous

In what way?

I feel like town Noraa with pressure on her gets angry and defensive in a way that looks a lot more flaily so I think it's possible there's coaching. But that's just based on that one post.

[MURDERCAT]

Nah Cat, coming to the thread cuz I actually have effort I can be active instead of passive on MS things rn. I post when I got the brain to articulate things.

If people wanna push on egotisi, that's their business. I have absolutely no read on the slot whatsoever. They're not contributing anything one way or another, but at least it's not actively bad. I know I haven't been doing all that much either, but I'm trying as best I can.

It's just feels suss to have you come in and vote a big wagon and dip tbh. Like you don't really question people or anything? Just feels kinda passive

[MURDERCAT]

I added a keyboard macro for

MURDERCAT

! :happy:

this is the highest honor I have ever received

[MURDERCAT]

BM I didn't want to have to be the one to tell you this, but you know there is strongman right?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah no, I get that. Sorry, this is just.. kinda how I do. I read and pop in when I got stuff to articulate. By passive I mean, just reading and posting nothing. I'm well aware that often just trying to play as best I can looks hella sus, I'm kinda used to being viewed that way no matter what I do or why, and usually due to minor phrasing pinging people in ways I don't intend.

It is a fair comment about voting a big wagon, can't argue that, but I meant what I said about why I am voting Noraa. Being such a big wagon though, with a lot of pressure, I'd kinda expect different reactions from frustrated town I guess? Idk. The more votes she's gotten, the more her reactions don't sit right to me. I don't know what else to tell you man.

Yeah I mean I'm not mad about it, I just want to town read you if you are town

[MURDERCAT]

BM I didn't want to have to be the one to tell you this, but you know there is strongman right?

whats a strongman?

Forget I said anything, see you tomorrow BM!

[MURDERCAT]

strongman is prolly literally like 1 or 2 shots cuz that role is way too strong. I doubt they would use strongman on BM even if he was an incredibly strong pr.

Noraa, I can't, I mean this is an open setup

[MURDERCAT]

at least promise you'll elim Taylor for me?

Yeah if you flip town tonight I'll take a look

[MURDERCAT]

I thought it was just we know the mafia has these three roles but they could be x-shot or weak or indecisive or gated or whatever

The setup page defines the setup, there is no additional info (except of course we don't know which town roles were used). But strongman is non-consecutive for example.

[MURDERCAT]

it's a shame noraa is capable of a fake townslip as scum. otherwise that would have been good.

Do you know this for a fact?

[MURDERCAT]

the time for posturing is over though. last call for the Taylor elim please before my inevitable death tonight! Gimme a dying wish!

I will read ego, taylor and noraa again because I've been really fence sitty towards all of them to be honest

[MURDERCAT]

I think you only have like 4 votes Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

Murder who's scum?

You're really gunna do me like that? Fine I'll read the isos

[MURDERCAT]

Spoiler: egoposts

i think we've already learnt quite a lot. an unusually high number of people defending taylor without grounds.

who is actually defending taylor here? like is "not instavoting taylor the second BM asks for it" = "defending taylor"?

murdercat climbing up my reads with 268/269

hmm
isis, why are 279/280 towny to you? like they read like null-to-maaaaybe-nullscum posts to me

i found this a bit surprising, at this point i was feeling like i had like one and a half weak townread (exorcists and maaaybe murdercat) with a whole buncha people either being null or south of null (RanCan for stuff, BM with the questionable push, and xof/norwee feeling active-lurky)

Can you explain what you mean by active-lurky?

active lurking is like, posting meaningless post to appear to be contributing
both your and xof's posts neatly fit into that
like up to that point you were what, making an excuse why you won't post much because logging in is difficult, voting the mod, and joking about clint eastwood

is that all you wanna say after 7 pages? do you have any reads?

-tisi

VOTE: xofelf

The fact that so many people are throwing shade here when I am totally null on them makes me suspicious. Sorry tayl0r, come vote here now let's see what happens.

This is feels like a non-reason(?) for a vote. You find them suspicious because other people find them suspicious? Do you have any other reasons for finding them scummy?

Also:

VOTE: RandomCanadian

I am going to very blatantly hop on this wagon because [reasons to be revealed later]

UNVOTE: by the way, served it's purpose

The idea was that there is likely scum on the wagon, just because it's easier to get 5 votes from 13 players than 10. If you remember from Noir, you had an early wagon on you that involved a vote from PP. I think that scum often takes the opportunity to distance with an early wagon, so I had a theory that Random Canadian might be scum getting hit by that distance vote (also I saw that Random Canadian had logged on but not posted in this thread, which seemed a little off to me considering how early into the game we were). Either way I was curious how votes would react as the wagon accelerated. It's probably not super useful right now but I think it will be nice to look back on after we get some flips. I did hate Isis's vote to leave the wagon but she did the exact same thing in Noir (and I hated it there too ). I'm not sure what to make of your unvote and revote.

Murdercat's progression on this feels off. You give no explanation for it, the wagon deflates after you voted, then you unvote and say it's for a test and it valuable after flips.

Why did you unvote rather than change to a different wagon? I know this may sound menial, but usually unvoting is a reaction to a post or something someone said.

-ego

Just gunna point some stuff out as I see it. These posts directly contradict, but are from different heads. I'm not really sure what to make of that, is that just something that happens? Makes me feel like they were not discussing in PT, but I'm not sure why scum wouldn't be aligned in who they are pushing? But maybe it's not that important for scum to be aligned with a push early? I don't have a strong AI read on this but I am curious if anyone makes anything from it.

[MURDERCAT]

BM is annoying me because he seems to still be scumreading taylor hard (who i'm currently leaning town on too), but also seems alergic to actually explaining/presenting that read

I think this is interesting given the eventual vote on me for me basically saying the same thing about BM

[MURDERCAT]

Honestly there is .. not much there? I don't know reading through the iso I think I didn't give it enough credit I think there is real game solving going on. Gunna go look at the case against ego

[MURDERCAT]

I'm going to switch to VOTE: egotisi, because I don't think either head has responded to me and that could very well be GeorgeBailey still horrified of my history catching him and consciously or subconsciously not wanting to keep me on the agenda.

Weak vote

[MURDERCAT]

I’m honestly really happy with the direction we’re going in.

VOTE: egotisi

Weak vote

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: egotisi
While I'm a bit skeptical of Infinity's motives currently, I also think we've kinda been stuck talking about a few slots and a wagon here shakes that up a bit.

-GAMMA

Weak vote. What are we actually doing here?

[MURDERCAT]

Talk to me about ego infinity because I'm not seeing it. On to Tayl0r

[MURDERCAT]

Why are you so sure it won't?

i mean it could if the town PRs fuck up and are dumb. but they just have to feign ignorance and not be like "well im the cop so in all the scenarios i consider, therell be a cop"... like if it outs town PRs then itll out scum too, who are also TMI. itll take 2 seconds to go through and look at the possible options for town with 8 points, and then to look at which ones dont make sense given the scum roles.

I really don't think Tayl0r is this bold as scum? I know BM is sure, but like, can you actually imagine typing this out and pressing submit as scum?

[MURDERCAT]

plus lets start a counterwagon on dunnstral

VOTE: dunnstral

Why this as scum?

[MURDERCAT]

The biggest thing that is +Tayl0r scum for me is that there is not that much solving, but I kinda like what is there.

I really don't have energy to read Noraa iso, but I will tomorrow.

I still don't really like xofelf? (as in your alignment, I'm sure you're very nice.)

BM I wavered on because it seems so weird for him to town slip like that as scum.

I kinda feel like it might be something like {xof, Dunn, ?} where ? is someone who is active but I have a bad read on.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I mean I guess I see that POV and I did feel like the read on me re the BM stuff kinda came out of nowhere. But I don't know, is there anything in ego's iso that doesn't apply to Dunn? I think Dunn's ego vote was literally the first thing he said about ego all game.

[MURDERCAT]

Why BM Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

It was just everyone except Taylor is town

I mean I really don't agree with that based on my read of the iso

[MURDERCAT]

Can I just sheep this instead of reading it myself

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah here's how I read Noraa, ignore all the obviously scummy stuff that is somehow still possible from town Noraa -> town read

So I need to read her scum game again

[MURDERCAT]

Setup

@Gamma and anyone else who may have missed it

[MURDERCAT]

Well it's didn't keep the link but anyway it's there..

[MURDERCAT]

I’m not a fan of how MCat approached the egotisi wagon

In what way?

[MURDERCAT]

Day 1 will end in (expired on 2020-10-23 13:00:00)

We do have some time still. Reading Noraa.

[MURDERCAT]

Found a fake townslip from scum Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

I only have two leans rn and they are weak asf

Might be conf biased, but this sort of fence sitting seems AI for scum Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

No everyone here is definitely right. Plus seems much more well composed this game. And I'm sure its not just me that's noticed this. I think this is either bc he is scum and knows the whole setup so he is pretty relaxed or its just that his game is getting better. Plus is normally somewhat like me .... basically a huge tsunami of confusion and LHF vibes. But this game I see huge improvement and while I want to say its most likely bc he is scum, I also think its very possible that its just his game getting better.

This also sticks out, an effort post that ends with a shrug.

[MURDERCAT]

This is actually such a bad answer to murder's question.

@infinity I think your criticism of ego also applies to Noraa. There's a lot of stuff like this where Noraa calls things out or interacts about something but it doesn't actually go anywhere. I think town Noraa is much more willing to share her alignment opinions about anything and everything. Like from town Noraa I would expect a comment that involves something about Cobra's alignment here if she is going to call it out. (Ok not every post will have something like that but I feel like there is a higher number of posts like this one that what I would expect from town Noraa.)

[MURDERCAT]

I do not like the Taylor wagon

This is directly opposed to a previous read that Noraa gave where she called Tayl0r scum

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I mean I definitely saw evidence of Noraa scum. I'm going to wait a few hours, come back, and look for evidence that Noraa is town. That one super high effort post about infinity and the "untunnel" of plus still feel very off to me as well.

[MURDERCAT]

viewtopic.php?p=12236870#p12236870

Out of the mouths of babes.

Thanks I will read this game too

[MURDERCAT]

so you have scum!noraa right. and she sees that (1) a lot of people are scumreading her, meaning there's a decent chance she flips today, and (2) that people are jumping on the hot new lol-lurker egotisi wagon. does she:

a) start at least throwing shade at egotisi, bullshit a scumread there, so that she can jump on her counterwagon at some point without looking horrible
b) shoots herself in the foot??? by making these posts???

I do think this is a good point and I definitely think that ego and Noraa as scum partners start bussing in at least one direction.

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: xofelf

Noraa is E-1 so I might as well park here. I think if it were up to me I might flip there just because it feels like that wagon never got off the ground and xof did dip again.

[MURDERCAT]

Xof who are the other two scum?

[MURDERCAT]

murder are you pocketing me?

Do you think infinity and me are ever scum together (asking because it feels like you are pointing at both of us here)

I pay a lot of attention to how wagons are formed and at first I thought the wagon on you was good as you hadn't really see much heat. But actually looking at the votes it didn't look very strong to me

[MURDERCAT]

Oh I have no idea. That's not how I look at things. Not on day 1 with no flip information. I really only tend to notice those connections with people AFTER there's actual solid information we have. Before it can mean anything. Town and scum interactions with people can like identical. And considering how often it's smart for scum to distance or purposefully buddy up to somebody who is town in order to cast suspicion on them if they leave, there's too much noise to sort out for me, so I uh don't do it that way? I'm more of an individualist anyways. Look, I'm all about information, and until I have anything actually concrete, I can't really do anything. Just.. how I work.

I'm not asking for connections, just other SRs

[MURDERCAT]

also i thought the ":(" at the end would be indication that i wasn't fully serious about accusing you of pocketing me but sorry if it didn't come across right

Nah I figured but your slot has SR'd me quite a bit and I don't really see how I'm ever scum from town ego's POV with how I'm defending the slot unless I'm scum with infinity and we are coordinated or Noraa and Tayl0r are both also town

[MURDERCAT]

Murder do you want to give intent so nora can claim? Don't see us getting much else out of this day, unless you have serious doubts.

I am considering it yeah, let me read through a town game and the iso one more time

[MURDERCAT]

No one gave intent. Why should I claim?

Noraa can you show me a completed town game of yours where you were pushed to close to elim?

[MURDERCAT]

im getting cold feet on noraa
I wanna go X
UNVOTE:
VOTE: X

Do we even have enough for this?
I want to at least force a vanilla or not claim right now

[MURDERCAT]

Only 2 votes on xof right now I think. Honestly feel like Noraa is flailing and hinting PR already I don't want to let that go

pedit: why is that taylor?

[MURDERCAT]

Also, I'm not saying we never get a full claim from Noraa but if she is doing all this and just claims vanilla I'd like to just get it over with sooner rather than later

[MURDERCAT]

Noraa is already hinting at PR it's too late for that

[MURDERCAT]

That said, I think there is a decent chance that town Noraa is actually vanilla here and is hinting anyway, so that's why I want her to just commit one way or the other

[MURDERCAT]

I think Plus is just new BM and I think new players overrate PRs

[MURDERCAT]

Plus I agree with infinity, if we are going to make xof happen we need something to happen with Noraa first. Honestly if Noraa is PR, claims, and dies for it tonight and we lim xof scum today instead that sounds like a great outcome for today.

pedit: BM am I crazy? Like how does a claim not happen at some point on D1 literally no matter what?

[MURDERCAT]

Plus, what happens in your mind today if we all move to xof? At some point we need a claim there right? It really feels like Noraa was about to fakeclaim and you let up all the pressure

[MURDERCAT]

And what if xof starts hinting at PR seeing how successful it was for Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

I think this is new town cold feet yeah. The other options are Plus is scum with Noraa, and I think you have to bus. Or Plus is scum without Noraa and then you just push it through.

[MURDERCAT]

plus scum at least waits for the claim to unvote to force the CC

[MURDERCAT]

This is intent, please claim noraa

[MURDERCAT]

Nora already softed pr. I’m

really

suspicious of everyone being fine with the nora elim and getting off at the last minute for no discernible reason, without even a claim.

Agree

[MURDERCAT]

I believe xof vt claim more than Noraa soft

[MURDERCAT]

well played.

I tried

[MURDERCAT]

VT is the best role.

I kind of wanted to be in control of the hammer but I trust Alice I guess

Noraa is still E-2 right? If so I'll vote

[MURDERCAT]

Can someone paint me a picture their xof scumread? I haven’t minded her since early game at all.

For me it's just a complete lack of scum hunting and general disinterest in the game unless their name comes up. And I get that happens as town sometimes, but I explicitly asked for more effort and reads and didn't really get anywhere

Also if you are pooky you can tell me

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Noraa

[MURDERCAT]

P-edit: You're getting the reads that I have as I have them, Cat. You just don't tend to like that they're not big confident lists. That's not I do. If things look funky, I say so, that's what I do. I am interested, but I need more information to give you the kind of reads and feelings you're looking for.

I don't even need a big list, but I think I never got a response to asking you for you top three SRs? You gave one and I asked for two more. The problem is just that I literally can't sort you without info. So yeah you could do this as town but you could also do it as scum and just coast and there's no way to tell it apart

[MURDERCAT]

I could've eaten the nk bc after all,

At best you just eat a roleblock

UNVOTE:

Let's not rush. Where is Isis?

[MURDERCAT]

I don't know but you are super town BM sorry for earlier

[MURDERCAT]

What did you make of Noraa’s PR hinting in the moment, and what do you make if it now that she’s claimed vanilla?

I think it's something town Noraa does even though I think it's dumb, but I could also see scum Noraa doing it to fake a town play or bailing on the fake claim

[MURDERCAT]

Lot happening, will read later with more attention

[MURDERCAT]

(ok I'm still skimming)

don't think that was hammer

[MURDERCAT]

Where is Isis?

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Tayl0r

I'm just gunna sheep BM for a bit

[MURDERCAT]

I'm still really questionable about Noraa, I think I see town Noraa dong that but the way it happened makes me feel like it's fake

I mostly feel frustrated about xofelf

[MURDERCAT]

Dunnstral?

Lol I actually forgot about Dunn. There is a part of me that thinks that scum is letting town flail, that's why I've been nervous about Isis/Dunn/xof/Cobra

[MURDERCAT]

I decided I should just claim my real ass role.

This should have happened when I was asking for it

[MURDERCAT]

I believe xof vt claim more than Noraa soft

Interesting. Why?

well seems like I was right about Noraa soft
Just felt super fake

[MURDERCAT]

VOTE: Noraa
There are no town MD roles in the setup. The fact Noraa thought there might be one despite having some breadth of setup knowledge makes me think she is scum who only knew the things she knew because it was disclosed to her as scum.

I think I agree with this and I'm ok with a Noraa lim still, this feels like another attempted townslip

[MURDERCAT]

Nope

[MURDERCAT]

Walk me through your scum letting town flail theory, MCat?

I wouldn't even call it a theory, just a feeling. It's probably related to my own personal feeling that I am flailing. Like I don't really see scum in {ego, Noraa, Tayl0r}. Of those three, I think Noraa looks the worst, but I also don't really feel like I'd be surprised if she flipped green. Tayl0r I really didn't see anything, I am just kind of curious what will happen if I park my vote there for a bit as I want to test BM's theory about Tayl0r being hard to flip (and I am now town reading BM pretty hard.)

That's not even to say that all 3 of them aren't scum I'm just personally not seeing it. I know BM disagrees but to me I don't feel like there is evidence of big TvS wagons happening. I think there is a decent chance we have just been pointing randomly at townies and some of the quieter players are scum. I know I've certainly been scum read in games a lot just because I post a lot and there's a lot to poke at.

Xof is one of those lurky players and I think the point about being upset about being VT was a good one. But it could also so easily just be genuine lim bait. And then I go back to, what if it's just Noraa? I mean there are those townslips that I do think look bad.

So I don't know I just feel like the solve is justttt out of my grasp and I think it might be because I'm not looking at the right players.

[MURDERCAT]

Like, by poe my scum are in this list

egotisi
Tayl0r Swift
Noraa
Dunnstral
xofelf
Isis

So if I'm not seeing it in ego, Tayl0r, Noraa ...

[MURDERCAT]

Nah I feel ok on you right now

[MURDERCAT]

It's something like E-2 or E-3 I believe, but it's been a busy day

[MURDERCAT]

Why is egotisi not in that pool?

There was a major wagon there

[MURDERCAT]

Well I at least voted there because they had been out of focus. Can’t speak for everyone else on the wagon but egotisi has been quite scarce in this thread and I don’t feel like people have talked about them much.

This is fair

[MURDERCAT]

I don't think there taylor posts are good, BM looks good recently and it's not really the relevant thing going on right now

[MURDERCAT]

I don't think there taylor posts are good, BM looks good recently and it's not really the relevant thing going on right now

This is general commentary about Taylor, should have said these*

[MURDERCAT]

I mean im still not against a Noraa flip

[MURDERCAT]

Are flipping Noraa then?

[MURDERCAT]

Phew

[MURDERCAT]

MURDERCAT

I really enjoy this

[MURDERCAT]

Ok I read Isis post, I think we should just flip Noraa and I'm being too paranoid

[MURDERCAT]

Once we have a VC, consider my vote there

[MURDERCAT]

(expired on 2020-10-23 13:00:00)

Pedit well I guess I didn't have to do this

[MURDERCAT]

Anything anyone wanna do or say before I hammer Noraa?

[MURDERCAT]

All yours

I don't particularly like hammering, I always get cold feet

[MURDERCAT]

See you all in the morning

[MURDERCAT]

Thank god, I really didn't want to have to think about whether taylor scum is dumb enough to kill BM (probably not?). Now we can do that tomorrow. Gunna wait to vote in case there is more stuff to talk about

[MURDERCAT]

Uh ok, cobra had a guilty on Isis?

[MURDERCAT]

probably don't vig Dunnstral either. he's lazy but i like him

Inno on Dunn?

[MURDERCAT]

Oh I just realized Plus is still alive. Hey Plus!

[MURDERCAT]

Isn't there a roleblocker though?

[MURDERCAT]

I mean we should go through things, we just got a ton of flips

[MURDERCAT]

egotisi (Datisi + GeorgeBailey)

Tayl0r Swift

Battle Mage

PlusJOYED

(basically green)

Noraa

Cobra Kai

Dunnstral

(basically green)

Exorcists

Infinity 324
Gamma Emerald
xofelf
Isis
MURDERCAT

So it's Isis and xofelf?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I'm a WH and we have 2 dead WH. 1 maf kill, 3 dead bodies, and I'm guessing me and 1 other WH shot someone and the third was rbed.

This many?

[MURDERCAT]

xofelf and Isis, who are the two scum in that list of 5? (Or do you doubt Plus and Dunn?)

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah, doc, vengeful or another JOAT (lmao) are the 2 point options

[MURDERCAT]

Or some number of commuters and rolestoppers

[MURDERCAT]

So you're softing?

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that makes sense to me.

I think you should just claim then Isis

[MURDERCAT]

Ok that was supposed to be a gentle, when you look at it later soft

Lol it was more like an in your face Noraa style soft

[MURDERCAT]

Leaning still towards Isis/xofelf but let's at least hear a claim

[MURDERCAT]

Who do we elim today?

[MURDERCAT]

Is it possible to get that with the number of kills we have? If there is no rb?

[MURDERCAT]

I did crumb my role if anyone cares, but scum know the roles, so that matters less than a normal setup.

Sure I want to see

[MURDERCAT]

Is that how you always do it? The average shifts so you can support shifting reads that aren't due to content or actions?

It's not even a read, I really wanted to sort more today.

MURDERCAT

is either trying to corner me into things I can poke at or ask me for stances early for associative reasons and the latter is worth indulging but that doesn't mean my preferences or strong. I really think the unconfirmed slots are pretty tossup

I'm trying to determine if we have enough reason to hammer you tbh.

[MURDERCAT]

Is it possible to get that with the number of kills we have? If there is no rb?

What does this mean?

Just trying to figure out possible scenarios to see what happened at night

[MURDERCAT]

I don't like the way MURDERCAT is playing either

Honestly if you aren't TRing me right now I think that looks bad on you :/

[MURDERCAT]

I had a whole case written up on isis but I guess we’ll be boring and do the mech solve thing

No come on I wanna see

[MURDERCAT]

Lol at 1815

[MURDERCAT]

Is it just that you think I was guiltied or how I played?

Mostly I think you were guilted, but in this pool it's slim pickins

[MURDERCAT]

I came to this day wanting it to be long and to have stuff, so you wanting to make the day as dismissive as possible means like you're coming to this game from a different place than I am

MURDERCAT

I mean from my POV we are pretty safe to elim you right? Like we aren't in Elo right? I'm still not sure if I want to do a massclaim or not but that Cobra post looks pretty damning.

[MURDERCAT]

I think with the fact Isis is claiming healer I don't want to go there
iirc healer is a 3 point role btw, so scum must have picked roles less than what they were allowed? Is that possibler?

Yeah healer is 2, math adds up

[MURDERCAT]

Also asking for information and showing a lack of actual interest into it is a scumtell I've run into a lot, I don't think you cared about the crumb and now the way you're asking about Infinity's case seems like a similar LAMIST

I am still considering it, what makes you think I'm not? I'm not even voting you right now.

[MURDERCAT]

Like Isis you have to admit that the potential guilty makes you look pretty bad? I am happy for you to fight out of it if you are town and I'm taking in data to see if that's what's happening but my prior is like "yeah pretty likely scum"

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah that's a good point gamma, but isn't it pretty likely they have strongman anyway? Otherwise wouldn't plus have just died last night?

[MURDERCAT]

my claim doesn't clear me

I mean it does if we mass claim I'm just not sure if we should do that yet. The problem is I just can't see who is scum if it's not you? Like xof I feel pretty good about, but then who else? Gamma? Infinity I've been TRing the whole game

[MURDERCAT]

I want to hear from everyone for sure though, including Dunn

[MURDERCAT]

fake crumbed?

[MURDERCAT]

Wow so high effort! I will give this a look through

[MURDERCAT]

I could see exorcists making that mistake.

That's kinda dumb but ok

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I get that, it just seems like weird reason to shoot the other PR :/

I'm still not sure why Cobra didn't vig Isis, that's the only thing that has me hung up.

[MURDERCAT]

Oh that makes sense, scum Isis sees that Cobra has a guilty?

[MURDERCAT]

Where is xofelf though?

[MURDERCAT]

Like right now, why isn't xofelf in the thread

[MURDERCAT]

Sus Isis, I think she faked medbay scan

[MURDERCAT]

I think for determining whether to mass claim we need to think about whether we can find 2 scum in a row without Isis or Plus. And also what the odds of Isis scum are.

[MURDERCAT]

The metaphor was already kind of stretched

[MURDERCAT]

I think we should operate under the assumption they have strongman kill tonight

[MURDERCAT]

murder, if cobra didnt crumb cop on isis, and did that just from reread, he threw. He didnt give any alternatives either. I dont think he threw.

Yeah I mean this is actually a great point

[MURDERCAT]

Maybe isis is strongman?

I am talking about worst case scenario, Isis is healer and scum has strongman kill we go into tomorrow with no conf towns other than Dunn.

[MURDERCAT]

Faking medscan with animations on is equivalent to a cop guilty so uhhh

Oh hey maybe the metaphor does work

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I am having the exact same read infinity

[MURDERCAT]

Having xofelf claim doesn't do anything right?

[MURDERCAT]

It is a fun place to be

[MURDERCAT]

Oh right thank you

[MURDERCAT]

Sorry Isis if you are really town :/

Even if you are not, getting 2 guilties on N1 sucks too

[MURDERCAT]

I do think we wait to hear from Dunn before voting on anything

[MURDERCAT]

Lol literally my last post was saying we should wait and I am doing VCA as you post that

[MURDERCAT]

What?? Oh Gamma you're hurting me

[MURDERCAT]

:/

[MURDERCAT]

I mean we could also just yeet xofelf? I feel better towards gamma than xof and we are in the same position tomorrow if we miss right?

[MURDERCAT]

What?? Oh Gamma you're hurting me

I felt like you were sus from like, early D1. Your egotisi wagon treatment didn’t help that

that is fair my ego read was not good

[MURDERCAT]

I just think Plus is right, how does Cobra post that as someone with a cop shot and have it not be a guilty??

[MURDERCAT]

Like, I know you said it looks like he reread Isis but if that's not a crumb what in his D2 iso was a crumb?

[MURDERCAT]

I think infinity is confident about Isis and is afraid of a miss

[MURDERCAT]

Anyways, I'm a trickster, one of plusjoyed and isis are lying.

Well it's probably not plus who had a guilty and had a chance to back off it after Cobra posted IIRC

[MURDERCAT]

Isis can you self vote, I don't want to feel bad

[MURDERCAT]

Well we have a counter claim between Isis and Dunn and one has an independent guilty on them and the other has an independent inno on them.

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I agree

[MURDERCAT]

Well we have a counter claim between Isis and Dunn and one has an independent guilty on them and the other has an independent inno on them.

Both of which are assumed. And Dunn

also

has a point in it not making sense that scum would pick banshee with just one protective in the game (a healer or some amount of commuters) . Like, my entire body is wanting me to go in so many directions rn.

Dunn's claim implies there is another commuter who didn't claim though because trickster is 1 point

[MURDERCAT]

Do you not think Isis is scum?

[MURDERCAT]

Isis's claim fits the math, right? And Dunn's makes things extra weird. And I'm curious what he means about the team being one he wouldn't pick. Like to me that doesn't clear him of shit really. It *is* weird, but with all the Witchhunter's we've had revealed wouldn't their choices be to try to counter those? I'll admit trying to figure out how roles fit together is not something I'm good at, but something here feels super fucking weird, and I'm not sure what that is.

Roleblocker and role cop counters the WH's no? The only thing that I think is off is strongman instead of godfather, but maybe 2 commuters is enough of a reason? I mean I probably would have gone godfather, but I see why they would go strongman. I think 3 JOATs is just kinda a trash setup because it's basically impossible for scum to play around. :/

[MURDERCAT]

Isis come back

[MURDERCAT]

Ok come back soon <3

I think plus scum fake guilty is unlikely to say the least.

[MURDERCAT]

I'm also not sure if that is technically possible given that Taylor died, anyone want to think through that for me?

[MURDERCAT]

But then who killed Cobra? Like if there's 2 WH, scum kills exorcists who kills Taylor. There's no way for it to work given the flips right?

[MURDERCAT]

Cobra kills taylor
Exorcists kills Cobra
Plus Scum kills Exorcists

Yeah ok, that is technically possible

[MURDERCAT]

Why don’t you know I’m Town rn?

I think you're town Gamma! I think it's just simply Isis/xofelf

[MURDERCAT]

But then who killed Cobra? Like if there's 2 WH, scum kills exorcists who kills Taylor. There's no way for it to work given the flips right?

MURDERCAT why did immediately work out one missing kill is o.k. for cobra kai trying to vig isis, but struggle with one missing kill being ok for plus to be scum?

I think I fucked that one up too actually

[MURDERCAT]

Are you scum

Or like do you low-key just dislike me or something

Isis don't AtE me like that come on <3

[MURDERCAT]

I mean sure I think this is fine

But like, pretty sure me you and gamma are all town.

[MURDERCAT]

Do you want time to do that or do you want to flip Isis?

[MURDERCAT]

Works for me

[MURDERCAT]

If we flip isis there is no protection on you

[MURDERCAT]

Why track instead of cop?

[MURDERCAT]

Mm yeah I mean that seems kinda unlikely to me too, Cobra seemed experienced

[MURDERCAT]

I guess the problem is that I don't see any reason to do that? Like I get going against popular opinion sometimes but usually I can at least see the logic in it.

[MURDERCAT]

Or he could have a PR-or-scum read on me that would make tracking effective, when tracking is less effective later if I got linked day2, which is where things were going.

I'm not sure I follow this part but ok.

Would you like to share your solve to guide us after your flip tomorrow?

[MURDERCAT]

I should have specified, is there one that doesn't include me

[MURDERCAT]

Didn't gamma push ego?

[MURDERCAT]

I mean I took a brief look and am feeling pretty good about limming xof. But let's cross the ts and dot the is as isis says.

[MURDERCAT]

If I had to treat you as conftown

This sounds good, let's do this

[MURDERCAT]

No rush

[MURDERCAT]

MURDERCAT

, you're town IRL

[MURDERCAT]

It's ok you did good plus

[MURDERCAT]

you're right. Just because it won't be helpful to me in the dirt doesn't mean it won't be helpful to discuss more for you guys. I'm just paranoid/impatient of this going wrong

UNVOTE:

I think we are just waiting on gamma, I'm ready to flip Isis (sorry :/)

[MURDERCAT]

Like if plus is lying he doesn't die tonight, let's worry about that scenario if he have an Isis green flip and plus is still alive in the morning

[MURDERCAT]

So technically Dunn and Isis claim are not incompatible?

[MURDERCAT]

I don't think that changes anything for today, but let me know your thoughts Gamma

[MURDERCAT]

I'm confused by my own double negative and therefore your comment.

With 9 points, Plus (2), Isis (2), Dunn (1), dead WHs (4) could be the setup? But before that clarification it wouldn't be possible because (I thought) there should only be 8 points.

But the mod clarified that 9 town points and 5 scum points is possible.

[MURDERCAT]

I think if we have another commuter it might be worth claiming but a rolestopper should stay quiet.

Does this change the fact we are flipping Isis? I don't think so

[MURDERCAT]

The way I read the set up, scum may choose to sacrifice some of their points

This means town = 9, scum = 6, and scum chooses 5 points worth of roles. No?

[MURDERCAT]

At least that is possible ^

[MURDERCAT]

If they had 6 I'd be very surprised they wouldn't go for a godfather.

This is what seems off to me in the 6 point sac 1 scenario

[MURDERCAT]

I prefer it to closed games because at least I get to try. I'm quite bad at it though

[MURDERCAT]

Yeah I mean I'm still in the "we are flipping the guilty crumb" camp and we can all blame Cobra for his dumb play if Isis is town.

[MURDERCAT]

Having slept on it, I don't think there is anything else that I need from today.
We shouldn't go to E-1 until we (Gamma) are ready because there is self hammer potential.

VOTE: Isis