Newbie 2038: Elements [Game Over]

[Mizzytastic]

I didn't think much about it because at the time I said it it felt like the pressure was all activity based when it was kinda obvious he wasn't trying which I read as busy instead of alignment based. I agree he's gotten worse as he's talked.

I thought it could be omgusy cos it's informed specifically by interactions with me.

I was getting close to voting c4 but I'm curious why 72 is so happy voting there when he still has half his isos to go.

But we do need wagons - I'm not sure there is anyone here I have a confident scumread on VOTE: c4

[Mizzytastic]

Safebet is my most confident town read. I'd need to reconsider at endgame but he just sounds like he's putting lots of thought in to this game

72 I think is probably town. I don't think he needs to effort this much as scum

JDye sounds nice but I'm not as confident there. I think the way he joined the game is hard to do as scum but I need to iso and reread 72s case

I know I can't read players like Egix. I've found him a bit buddyish in the degree he's defended me but there's enough icky slots this game I'd prefer not to vote there today. If he is scum I would be surprised if his 3 scum reads is a legit rule of 3.

Cyl is the best policy elim as LHF but LHF tends to be town +rand and her apathy seems genuine

Nothing has particularly stood out to me about muh but his thoughts feel shallow and icky as the game progresses. Kinda uncomfortable with scum!muh not voting or efforting around deadline

I need to do another read here but my feelings about the slot are getting worse over the game. In particular he feels like someone trying to manipulate the game state and like he knows cyl's alignment and is trying to benefit from it. I don't think he's ever actually explained why cyl is town, just said its obvious and the people who don't see it are bad for not seeing it.


I guess this is more a where I want to vote list than a reads list. I would not be surprised to find out one scum is more in the middle here. Honestly my doubts about cyl and muh should make me less happy to vote there but I'm scared of how a final x situation handles having them around.

[JDye]

@72,

when are you going to answer the questions I asked?

2) What is so alarming about my post about safebet where I switched form third to second person?

This is the one I care about. How did my post "ring ALARM BELLS"?

[JDye]

JDye sounds nice but I'm not as confident there. I think the way he joined the game is hard to do as scum but I need to iso and reread 72s case

72's case: 315, 316, 317.
My response: 320

In 316 he says that me switching tenses halfway through raises alarm bells. Refuses to say why it raises alarm bells. Says I'm trying to fit him into a narrative in 317, yet everything in his "case" is trying to fit me into a narrative. Huge reaches in all the posts and it somehow makes me his strongest read. Honestly, I just can't see this as town in any way. Feels like he's putting no effort in and trying to pretend he's scum hunting.

[JDye]

And now that I keep asking him to explain he backs off. Either he's bad town or he's scum. The "72/Cyl scum team" line was a throwaway thing to laugh about in post-game but now I'm believing it properly.

There's no reason for him to back off here. Randomly stating a possible scum team isn't towny. Especially when it's on a person that's been voting me for ages and my second highest scum-read.

[JDye]

VOTE: C4

Can see !TownJdye thinking its me and cyl.

Cant see scumbox C4's case against Egix.

You can see town!me doing it. What about scum!me doing it? It's not AI to say my two highest scum-reads are a team. Why is this reading towny to you?

[Mizzytastic]

He is putting effort in though. Not to defend himself either but to try and produce reads. And a decent part of the player list has him as scummy and it's not changed his playstyle so I don't think he's doing it to get people to think he's town - if it is scum!72 I'm the only one he's really pocketed with it and he'd have found it easier if he didn't scum read over half the player list and hadn't been so hyperbolic. This game is dead, he doesn't need to produce that much text to look like he's trying to contribute.

Why do you think a cyl/72 team both vote AGP?

[safebet222]

@mizzy

Do you think there is one scum on the AGP wagon and one off the AGP wagon? Do you think there is zero active scum, 1 active scum or 2 active scum? Why?

[JDye]

He is putting effort in though. Not to defend himself either but to try and produce reads. And a decent part of the player list has him as scummy and it's not changed his playstyle so I don't think he's doing it to get people to think he's town - if it is scum!72 I'm the only one he's really pocketed with it and he'd have found it easier if he didn't scum read over half the player list and hadn't been so hyperbolic. This game is dead, he doesn't need to produce that much text to look like he's trying to contribute.

Why do you think a cyl/72 team both vote AGP?

No effort with regards to his read/vote on me. When it was my turn for th ISO dive he just says "read my ISO" and all his ISO has is 3 (in my opinion very weak) posts. If he thinks I'm scum, I feel like he should be actually trying to push this in some way. Feels to me more like he doesn't know how to explain his read on me. As for his reads on others, they're not bringing all that much to the table. A lot of it is a rephrasing of what someone else has said at some point in the thread.

As for cyl/72 both voting AGP, it's possible. Cyl was already on AGP from the start and pretty inactive so they could just sit their while the wagon built. Leaving the wagon after may have been more sus since they'd have had to explain why they no longer felt that way about pig. As for 72, I mentioned it earlier but 72 was sheeping you imo. You started swinging towards AGP and reading Cyl as town and 72 started doing the same thing. Speculating about why they would do this is difficult, I don't know whats going on with them if they are a team. It's not a hard rule that only one scum has to be on the wagon. Could be they know this and both did it. It gets WIFOMy so no point going here.

Biggest factor for thinking this though is the way 72backed off after I called the 72/cyl scum team out. I don't see how that post reads as towny enough for 72 to start reading someone else as scummier given how strong he seemed to think this read was.

I'm not going to try and base my read of one from the other though. I think there's a decent chance they are both scum, but I could be wrong so I'll look at them independently and see what happens rather than doing mental gymnastics to connect dots that might not exist.

[JDye]

@Mizzy

, What do you think of 72's case on me?

Also, 72 has asked people to join his wagon three times now (one of the wagons was on you). Two of those times you've immediately hopped on with him. 270 and 282. 446 and 450. If he is scum, you've most definitely been pocketed.

[Mizzytastic]

I know that. I'm pointing out one pocket isn't good enough if a lot of the town is against you for the same stuff.

I've not read it, I said I need to and I will, but tomorrow. I'm not supposed to be awake right now, its impacting my thinking quite badly, and if I'm right on what I see between cyl and c4 then it likely comes down to between you and him and I want to get it right.

But basically all tonight has been me trying to help cos I'm sick of how apathetic this game state is but I'm out of it and saying whatever comes to mind and it probably sounds less stream of consciousness than some players cos I'm good at pretty words

[Mizzytastic]

@mizzy

Do you think there is one scum on the AGP wagon and one off the AGP wagon? Do you think there is zero active scum, 1 active scum or 2 active scum? Why?

Probably. Neither AGP or town!muh is worth the effort of coordinating both onto to get them out in particular and if you do pick one an SE is probably the bigger threat if they do decide to up their game. I'm not sure why a partner would join scum!cyl to specifically get AGP out and think cyl is probably not at a very genuine seeming "I've given up on this game" with a partner backing her up and supporting in scum thread.

You could have scum!muh not voting and partner on AGP, but muh seems to be around enough when he wants to be since the initial few days where he was actually busy IMO that I doubt he doesn't show up to intent on AGP before you had to move there. No point risking it going the other way

Votes feel too unfocused for two active scum. We've got a whole bunch we find scummy and no consensus. I dunno if one active scum vs no active scum would actually feel that different and probably just comes down to playstyle of the partnership and the direction town is going by themselves.

I do think this is the point where scum!cyl's partner would be deciding if they bus with lower activity or exert charisma to try and move elim elsewhere and risk getting attention.

[Egix96]

Okay time to switch gears... This game is so dead... Muh you're still on my scumlist...

Muh
Low-hanging fruit town

123 - On re-read of the game, I think !scumMuh would try to appease town questioning him, rather than refuse.
His uncooperative attitude reminds me of Worcestshire in Newbie 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83462&user_select[]=34514

His refusal to answer in 137 reads like suspicious, guarded town.

Muh's reposting of the same question towards me twice

The severe inactivity at end of day also SCREAMS town vs town wagons,
whereby scum doesnt have to make moves as they already have a miskick secured

More likely to be scum than cyl, though unlikely.

Also this last line is a big thonk.

@egix... Tell me more...72 never left my scumlist. Lets discuss.

72off - his push on JDye felt ungenuine because I think that JD's catchup was fairly obvtown and it seemed like 72 was specifically trying to sow dissent - going in with the preconceived notion that JD "must" be scum rather than actually aiming to sort him.

Do you think this push was scum!72 and if so, why not push 72? That's a wagon I can get on. I'm not interested in a cyl push today.

The thonk is because a) I really don't see how anyone could think that muh has less town equity than cyl, and b) how he phrases it in terms of "more likely to be scum" when he's talking about them being town.

That kind of push is something I don't think I've seen 72 do before as either alignment. I'm just seeing it in a similar way to how JD is.

I could switch, but I am finding it curious that you're not interested in pushing cyl.

[Egix96]

Safebet is my most confident town read. I'd need to reconsider at endgame but he just sounds like he's putting lots of thought in to this game

72 I think is probably town.

I don't think he needs to effort this much as scum

JDye sounds nice but I'm not as confident there. I think the way he joined the game is hard to do as scum but I need to iso and reread 72s case
s
I know I can't read players like Egix. I've found him a bit buddyish in the degree he's defended me but there's enough icky slots this game I'd prefer not to vote there today. If he is scum I would be surprised if his 3 scum reads is a legit rule of 3.

Cyl is the best policy elim as LHF but LHF tends to be town +rand and her apathy seems genuine

Nothing has particularly stood out to me about muh but his thoughts feel shallow and icky as the game progresses. Kinda uncomfortable with scum!muh not voting or efforting around deadline

I need to do another read here but my feelings about the slot are getting worse over the game. In particular he feels like someone trying to manipulate the game state and like he knows cyl's alignment and is trying to benefit from it. I don't think he's ever actually explained why cyl is town, just said its obvious and the people who don't see it are bad for not seeing it.


I guess this is more a where I want to vote list than a reads list. I would not be surprised to find out one scum is more in the middle here. Honestly my doubts about cyl and muh should make me less happy to vote there but I'm scared of how a final x situation handles having them around.

Perhaps he doesn't "need" to, but I know he is capable of it and I would imagine he would do it just because he can.

[JDye]

I don't think he needs to effort this much as scum

You said it yourself. A decent part of the playerlist is reading him as scum. Decent incentive to put some effort in, or at least pretend to.

[72offsuit]

Okay time to switch gears... This game is so dead... Muh you're still on my scumlist...

Muh
Low-hanging fruit town

123 - On re-read of the game, I think !scumMuh would try to appease town questioning him, rather than refuse.
His uncooperative attitude reminds me of Worcestshire in Newbie 2015.

viewtopic.php?f=50&t=83462&user_select[]=34514

His refusal to answer in 137 reads like suspicious, guarded town.

Muh's reposting of the same question towards me twice

The severe inactivity at end of day also SCREAMS town vs town wagons,
whereby scum doesnt have to make moves as they already have a miskick secured

More likely to be scum than cyl, though unlikely.

Also this last line is a big thonk.

@egix... Tell me more...72 never left my scumlist. Lets discuss.

72off - his push on JDye felt ungenuine because I think that JD's catchup was fairly obvtown and it seemed like 72 was specifically trying to sow dissent - going in with the preconceived notion that JD "must" be scum rather than actually aiming to sort him.

Do you think this push was scum!72 and if so, why not push 72? That's a wagon I can get on. I'm not interested in a cyl push today.

The thonk is because a) I really don't see how anyone could think that muh has less town equity than cyl, and b) how he phrases it in terms of "more likely to be scum" when he's talking about them being town.

That kind of push is something I don't think I've seen 72 do before as either alignment. I'm just seeing it in a similar way to how JD is.

I could switch, but I am finding it curious that you're not interested in pushing cyl.

Garbage post.

Cyl and Muh are light townleans who have contributed next to nothing to this game. Muh is scummier than cyl.

JDye scum is not a preconceived idea. I stated reasoning for my read.

[72offsuit]

Safebet is my most confident town read. I'd need to reconsider at endgame but he just sounds like he's putting lots of thought in to this game

72 I think is probably town.

I don't think he needs to effort this much as scum

JDye sounds nice but I'm not as confident there. I think the way he joined the game is hard to do as scum but I need to iso and reread 72s case
s
I know I can't read players like Egix. I've found him a bit buddyish in the degree he's defended me but there's enough icky slots this game I'd prefer not to vote there today. If he is scum I would be surprised if his 3 scum reads is a legit rule of 3.

Cyl is the best policy elim as LHF but LHF tends to be town +rand and her apathy seems genuine

Nothing has particularly stood out to me about muh but his thoughts feel shallow and icky as the game progresses. Kinda uncomfortable with scum!muh not voting or efforting around deadline

I need to do another read here but my feelings about the slot are getting worse over the game. In particular he feels like someone trying to manipulate the game state and like he knows cyl's alignment and is trying to benefit from it. I don't think he's ever actually explained why cyl is town, just said its obvious and the people who don't see it are bad for not seeing it.


I guess this is more a where I want to vote list than a reads list. I would not be surprised to find out one scum is more in the middle here. Honestly my doubts about cyl and muh should make me less happy to vote there but I'm scared of how a final x situation handles having them around.

Perhaps he doesn't "need" to, but I know he is capable of it and I would imagine he would do it just because he can.

I'm not a fancy play syndrome player. So no.

[72offsuit]

Noone has even bothered to comment on my theory of town vs town wagons = low activity from scum on day one.

Barely anyone has given 2 shits about my ISOs.

He is efforting so he is scum, herp derp. Gee im a good scumhunter.

[JDye]

JDye scum is not a preconceived idea. I stated reasoning for my read.

Your reasoning is awful and you still haven't answered my question.

[JDye]

Noone has even bothered to comment on my theory of town vs town wagons = low activity from scum on day one.

Someone else, think it was c4, mentioned it at the start of the day. DADV. I don't necessarily disagree.

[72offsuit]

Ok... so here are some initial thoughts...

Page 1

- RVS was RVS. I don't think anyone was being serious getting on 72 spamming the thread, seemed pretty arbitrary. I don't think 72 was getting particularly annoyed by getting called out either, seemed a pretty tongue in cheek response to me. I read nothing AI on this page.

Page 2

The Mizzy-C4 (Chess moves - yeah - the English - c4 e5 g3 d5) exchange I think was Mizzy just trying to drag this game quickly out of RVS and c4 still wanting to goof off. Still nothing particularly AI, imo. In other words, I disagree with Mizzy:

I think c4's response is +town (not worried about defending self, comfortable with rvs being a good enough reason).

I took a peek at some of 72's games and he seems to post a lot. I think activity is NAI and spam is anti-town in general but his reaction to being called on it feels +town. Scum are less comfy expressing that sort of frustration.

I don't think you can make a read on c4 up to this point and I don't think 72 was reacting adversely to the spamming thing... I think he was making a joke. I digress.

I'm going to keep my opinion of the hunterr-Mizzy interaction to myself for now... not sure how much it would help seeing as I subbed for hunterr...

Page 3

- So for me 72 voting Mizzy for the overall LAMIST feel seems like 72 is just annoyed at Mizzy misinterpreting 72's responses.

Page 4

-

I could vote cyl or Bipolar right now. I wanna hear from them both before hand though.

hunterr's unvote is making me move him back towards town. Its easy to unvote at E-1 early for town points but his reasoning beyond that felt genuine to me

This feels like classic newbscum.

Mindset preoccupied with people earning town points, because thats what Mazzy themself are trying to do as scum - trying to appear town.

I don't know 72... Mizzy is being a spaz but this is the second time you warned them about this and they haven't stopped yet. Seems like you are pulling an SE card with the "classic newbscum" quip. I mean we're just impressionable noobs, right?

Page 5

The 72 - Mizzy exchange just makes me scumread 72 more and more...

Page 6

Muh appears! I mean being generally inactive is not good for town I am told. But I don't know if this is an IRL busy thing or if the 72-muh interaction on p.6 are scum trying put some distance between them.

Again I'll stay away from the hunterr posts...

Page 7

Join me on the Mizzy wagon and let the "noteworthy" posts sally forth.

Man... it might be time to check my confirmation bias here...

Page 8

Welcome JDye (shouldn't he be welcoming me?)! So lots going on here for me. I think the JDye entrance clarified some of my reads... more on that below...

So in general my current in no particular order are:

townreads (for now)
JDye
cyl
c4

Mizzy... I do townread them but I don't necessarily agree with their vote analysis that there is at least 1 scum on the original c4 E-1 wagon or that one of the 4 2-vote wagons on page 8 have scum. I think its equally as plausible that scum isn't in either of these groups. However I don't think they are LAMIST... while I don't wish anyone to be sick... I do think Mizzy has been an easier to deal with since taking the paracetemol... they were just all over the place... it was too much noise.

Muh is neutral for me... I could entertain a 72/muh scum team... but I could just as easily see muh as IRL busy and the activity until page 8 as NAI.

Egix - also neutral... although it does strike me as plausible that both scum are low activity SE's

GPig - no read at all... again not sure if the activity is AI or not... I suppose I'll eventually learn to read folks like this

72off- right now my scumread... but (how's this for a poker analogy) I'm either way ahead or way behind on this read... What I mean is that I can't figure out why he is continuing to drum up a train on Mizzy... I just think it too obvious for it to be a scumplay... is that what TSTBS means? Too scummy to be scum... but perhaps thats the ploy? ahhh... I have to go to bed...

UNVOTE: cyl VOTE: 72offsuit

See you all tomorrow... I'll drop by on my lunch break.

Opportunistically jumps in on Mizzy vs me.

I'm scum reading 72 more and more offers ZERO reasoning - scummy

[72offsuit]

Ok... so here are some initial thoughts...

Page 1

- RVS was RVS. I don't think anyone was being serious getting on 72 spamming the thread, seemed pretty arbitrary. I don't think 72 was getting particularly annoyed by getting called out either, seemed a pretty tongue in cheek response to me. I read nothing AI on this page.

Page 2

The Mizzy-C4 (Chess moves - yeah - the English - c4 e5 g3 d5) exchange I think was Mizzy just trying to drag this game quickly out of RVS and c4 still wanting to goof off. Still nothing particularly AI, imo. In other words, I disagree with Mizzy:

I think c4's response is +town (not worried about defending self, comfortable with rvs being a good enough reason).

I took a peek at some of 72's games and he seems to post a lot. I think activity is NAI and spam is anti-town in general but his reaction to being called on it feels +town. Scum are less comfy expressing that sort of frustration.

I don't think you can make a read on c4 up to this point and I don't think 72 was reacting adversely to the spamming thing... I think he was making a joke. I digress.

I'm going to keep my opinion of the hunterr-Mizzy interaction to myself for now... not sure how much it would help seeing as I subbed for hunterr...

Page 3

- So for me 72 voting Mizzy for the overall LAMIST feel seems like 72 is just annoyed at Mizzy misinterpreting 72's responses.

Page 4

-

I could vote cyl or Bipolar right now. I wanna hear from them both before hand though.

hunterr's unvote is making me move him back towards town. Its easy to unvote at E-1 early for town points but his reasoning beyond that felt genuine to me

This feels like classic newbscum.

Mindset preoccupied with people earning town points, because thats what Mazzy themself are trying to do as scum - trying to appear town.

I don't know 72... Mizzy is being a spaz but this is the second time you warned them about this and they haven't stopped yet. Seems like you are pulling an SE card with the "classic newbscum" quip. I mean we're just impressionable noobs, right?

Page 5

The 72 - Mizzy exchange just makes me scumread 72 more and more...

Page 6

Muh appears! I mean being generally inactive is not good for town I am told. But I don't know if this is an IRL busy thing or if the 72-muh interaction on p.6 are scum trying put some distance between them.

Again I'll stay away from the hunterr posts...

Page 7

Join me on the Mizzy wagon and let the "noteworthy" posts sally forth.

Man... it might be time to check my confirmation bias here...

Page 8

Welcome JDye (shouldn't he be welcoming me?)! So lots going on here for me. I think the JDye entrance clarified some of my reads... more on that below...

So in general my current in no particular order are:

townreads (for now)
JDye
cyl
c4

Mizzy... I do townread them but I don't necessarily agree with their vote analysis that there is at least 1 scum on the original c4 E-1 wagon or that one of the 4 2-vote wagons on page 8 have scum. I think its equally as plausible that scum isn't in either of these groups. However I don't think they are LAMIST... while I don't wish anyone to be sick... I do think Mizzy has been an easier to deal with since taking the paracetemol... they were just all over the place... it was too much noise.

Muh is neutral for me... I could entertain a 72/muh scum team... but I could just as easily see muh as IRL busy and the activity until page 8 as NAI.

Egix - also neutral... although it does strike me as plausible that both scum are low activity SE's

GPig - no read at all... again not sure if the activity is AI or not... I suppose I'll eventually learn to read folks like this

72off- right now my scumread... but (how's this for a poker analogy) I'm either way ahead or way behind on this read... What I mean is that I can't figure out why he is continuing to drum up a train on Mizzy... I just think it too obvious for it to be a scumplay... is that what TSTBS means? Too scummy to be scum... but perhaps thats the ploy? ahhh... I have to go to bed...

UNVOTE: cyl VOTE: 72offsuit

See you all tomorrow... I'll drop by on my lunch break.

Opportunistically jumps in on Mizzy vs me.

I'm scum reading 72 more and more offers ZERO reasoning - scummy

[72offsuit]

JDye scum is not a preconceived idea. I stated reasoning for my read.

Your reasoning is awful and you still haven't answered my question.

Focusing on yourself instead of all my ISOS on all the players.

Keep on digging your own hole JDye

[72offsuit]

Pretty sure your question isnt even worth answering

[JDye]

As for your reads, they're not exactly groundbreaking. Most of it has been mentioned by other people and I think you're coming at it with preconceived ideas on who is town and who is scum.