TM 2021 Large Normal: OEIS Mafia (Part Two Is Out)

[Hopkirk]

Someone probably said the best way to know someone is through their enemies. I noticed some of you hadn’t played with me before, so I thought sharing my blacklist for this event might provide some insight into what kind of person I am:

Staarling

– One of Hectic’s alts. We’re not eligible to play together.

Untrod Tripod

– Given his role in organizing the event I can’t help but feel he’ll probably have setup related details that would give him an advantage in the game.

Flopz

- He’s on my team so we can’t technically play together. Honestly, we picked him up to avoid the horrific toxic 1v1s he starts every game.

Osama bin laden (the real one)

– I know this is a controversial statement, but

I don’t want to play mafia with international terrorists

. Not even dead ones.

Hoptic

- It’s a hydra. It’s also one of my hydras. If it was in the game, I’d be less annoyed that someone on my BL got in, and more incredibly concerned about who’s out to get me.

Magnetic (parknourie alt)

– Banned a decade ago for alt-based cheating. I don’t want to see that in my team mafia games.

A hydra of everyone on mafiascum who wants to destroy team mafia to get revenge on the mods

– honestly this one is kind of self-explanatory. One or two of them are already on our team so we aren’t eligible to play together.

Tubbs (Hectic’s pet hamster)

- I don’t want to out their alt, but I’m glad they’re in the large theme and not this game.

Emperor Hadrian-

he blacklisted me like 1900 years ago and I blacklisted him back. I’d prefer not to get into it.

Explodernaught

- Not an existing account. I only want to play with real people nowadays.

Hope this helps anyone who wasn’t sure what a ‘Hopkirk’ was. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask. I don’t have a GTKAS, so if there’s anything you wanted to know, this is probably the best place to ask.

[Hopkirk]

super is suspicious of Ythan for not reading my post yet considering there’s like 3 posts to read.

VOTE: Ythan

oh my meme worked Hercule is actually town
yeeet

+town on hercule
meh on theworst

VOTE: danfloor

Found scum!

if you've found scum why are you voting dan?

Just do what feels right and folks will deal with it. Here watch.

VOTE: hercule

also nice

hercule you mentioned that you were really excited to get this game started this morning, does your enthusiasm vary by alignment at all?

by extension is your activity generally similar (and I assume high) as both alignments?

honestly no idea i haven’t flipped scum in like 6 months

on the whole i generally dread being scum but it’s been so long it would be a nice change of pace

+town

[Hopkirk]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

VOTE: the worst

VOTE: ythan

Sup wit dis?

changed my mind

decided I valued attempting to start a wagon more than voting ducky

In all of half a minute?

bad shade. bad. bad posting. badbadbad

I'm the absolute perfect level of drunk prepare to get wrecked. I guess still just Hercules though.

can you hyperpost while drunk? i find it obvtowns people a lot of the time. sus if you don't tbh.
if pressuring people to drink isn't allowed then sorry. feel free to come to me if you want any help giving the drinking up. i'm always ready to listen

VOTE: Agar

If you think Dann's scummy, why aren't you voting him?

good voting. rvs reason eh. NAI

VOTE: agar

sheeptitus.exe

i'm starting to like this penguin

[Hopkirk]

they're making towny noises and want people to townread them so I'm obliging! i'll work out if I'm wrong later. Where u at on them?

maybe town? idk I'm more in a wait-and-see kinda mode. I vaguely liked his real time interaction with me just because it felt easy for him and unforced. but he really seems like a player I need to watch develop over a longer period of time especially to see if he maintains the same level of excitement and activity that he claims is emblematic of his town game

I was a little curious about your initial town read just because hercule has no meta on this site and the "excited hyperposter" poster persona is not one I've come to see as more town than not, in fact I think a lot of scum players default to that style at least at the start of the game in order to cover their weaknesses -- this is kind of a similar thought to unwnd's read on innocent villager. Anyway, I was wondering why you were so quick on the read given hercule could be a very experienced player and it didn't seem you had any history with them

that's briefly what I thought when I voted you and then I was like... nah that's probably stupid and voted ythan

it wasn't that deep beyond me having a moment of hesitation reading your posts and then just deciding to shelve it for later instead

I think hercule is an easy town read to make and I suppose could be town

but specifically I was stopped at your posts just because I know you as someone who tends to go below the surface level and then go a little deeper

granted page 1 but yknow

agreeing with this and liking Dann's thought process.
i'm feeling hercule is easy to townbin but also maybe

too easy

for scum to just townbin. slight eh on the worst

time to see what read hectic posting in the discord earlier

[Hopkirk]

Hectic's reads (heavily reworded to avoid quoting)
-Likes Dann's end of p6 posting (agreed) and the thought process between the two votes
- finds 22 from herc odd where he says he doesn't want to make a mountain out of the issue, then continues extending that conversation (eh, i'd see that as nai or very very lightly town leading thinking about incentives)
-jacko's friendly entrance/reaching out to several players for harmless banter is a slightly scum indicative entrance (i skimmed over this post initially, finding myself agreeing a bit i think? the vibes don't seem on point)
-Agar's questioning on Dann felt fake/couldn't understand what response Agar expected other than 'yep'/not looking for underlying reasons (agree, not a massive fan of agar but he also didn't do anything to look townie in those two posts tbh. reviewing gave me a vibe of like not really thinking about how people would look at the posts? flagging to interact with)
-townpings from 80 from Ythan and was vibing with DGB's attacks earlier (nice)
-the worst's 89 felt forced. hectic thought xtoxm was just thinking out loud and wasn't voicing a townlean. Some other good posts from TW but fakeable from hectic's pov as a lot of mech related (not sure what hectic means about the mech part. 89 does feel kind of weirdly reactive i agree. i also don't like the shade on dann in 97 that i noticed while skimming to find 89 in the iso).

VOTE: Jacko

[Hopkirk]

a few thoughts on the incentives the scoring system provides

-without actually going over the numbers, scoring probably only matters if town wins 4/5 or 5/5 of the games. hence, scoring matters since my aura extends across my team.
-best score in game survey is the only one that's worth planning around because draws aren't likely enough to be worth planning around
-so our win condition is to win all of our games in a more visibly useful way than other players

-this gives us a fairly strong incentive not to be modkilled since it probably loses us the event, especially in the event of ties. i'll warn my teammate who only posts pictures of salt shakers when they're town not to risk it.

-normally i would be happy to sheep some of my townreads. this is a lot more difficult in this game because then they'll probably get more credit than me which hurts me in a tiebreak if they sweep their games too. therefore, it's tactically a good idea to either a.) steal credit for your townreads ideas and try to make it look like they're sheeping you, or probably better b.) pretend you're sheeping the reads your teammates gave you BEFORE your townreads gave you those reads. this makes it look like you're arriving at the reads as well which makes it look like collaberative solving rather than letting the good town players carry you. this strat even gives you extra points in the team based tiebreak

-giving everyone else in your game a 1 is, while not explicitly banned, a massive dick move. it's a pretty great idea to source a couple of players that you're okay with everyone hating who can do that to boost your team's odds while also maintaining plausible deniability by publicly decrying their horrible lack of honor. I recommend throwing a few 3s and 4s in there if you are the kind of bad person who'd go with this strategy.

-i will immediately policy vote anyone who tries to bring 'i'll give you a bad score if you vote me/if x' based blackmail into the game. i'm surprised this isn't already banned tbh, although it can be implicit that any pushes on someone (especially to lethal) may make them lower your score. this gives the, possibly intended, benefit that lethaling town as town isn't a good idea- both in game and in the wider world. it's almost like the mods thought this one through.

-we absolutely can't let it get to option 4 (the mods vote on a winner) as at that point they probably just vote for the modding team, or saying we're all winners and the real victory was the friends we made along the way. we need to team up against them to stop this happening. the best way to do that is probably to play our games properly and deal with the scoring in a reasonable and unbiased manner. sadly that probably means we're just playing into their hands, but i'm not concerned about losing to a chessmaster like penguin power, especially not when they're perched on Isis' shoulders.

[Hopkirk]

yes that was the best use of my time. nobody else was online. i don't have to answer to you

[Hopkirk]

that's a good fix.
also, we totally didn't draft two member of our team into team mafia to serve as hatred-scapegoats, what are you implying?

[Hopkirk]

did a reskim of the iso as it's short. i still feel like their vibes seem positive without seeming forced positive. i like stuff like

i generally dread being scum but it’s been so long it would be a nice change of pace

i’ll vibe in the thread on mobile some but i’m already not really liking the experience so probably will be around more tmro

cheers happy to be here, i’m sure i’ll get a chance to introduce myself more

I think it’s a good enough reason to vote someone atm!

should i be reading this neutrally? obviously i need to talk this read through with hectic was he had a different vibe-impression to me

(i read a couple of names of teammates people were dropping and got worried i was posting in the wrong thread for a minute...)

[Hopkirk]

to clarify, the townreads herc is giving, or the ones they're getting look forced? i agree on the second bit, but i read it as the first way above- i don't really get a forced impression from their posts

[Hopkirk]

i am refreshing this a lot and i got up two hours earlier than i planned to today because of team mafia. can anyone consult with their teams over whether this is a healthy approach to the event?

[Hopkirk]

should i be reading this neutrally?

I am

They can be excited to play team mafia but have rolled scum

People aren't even using meta, they're saying he's excited, so he must be town, which doesn't really make sense, especially without knowing who this person is

true, i generally fall back to 'town are more likely to be excited than mafia', but i think it has some genuine pings?
how do you feel about the worst's position on herc?

[Hopkirk]

jackson will know i'm watching him either way (not in a creepy way jackson...)

VOTE: the worst

[Hopkirk]

Hi. Uncrowned here.

Ythan is Town.

ABR is probably Town.

Dunnstral is probably Town.

Hopkirk's reasoning on JV's intro is reasonable, but I believe it is NAI for JV given the history between them, myself and The Worst.

I don't think a teammate reading the game is indicative of anything, but I guess I get the sentiment?

I don't think The Worst has been that awkward, I think that's just how he be sometimes.

can you expand on what you mean about the opening? my issue shouldn't be history dependent unless you have an in joke you're talking about
what gave you ABR town this early?

AGar is town because he noticed that and succinctly questioned it without shading it

felt to me like he was shading it in the follow up?

[Hopkirk]

yeah it's still "shade" technically but it's still like, direct engagement with Dannflor which is good

i don't follow

[Hopkirk]

can you expand on what you mean about the opening? my issue shouldn't be history dependent unless you have an in joke you're talking about

I rolled scum in JV and I's first game on site. The Worst replaced in and it came down to us three in ELo and I won. Since then they've had like a revenge thing where they want to roll scum together in a game against me. Good times.

As for why I townlean ABR at the moment: He voted Dannflor immediately after Dann voted Ythan, which is exactly what I would have done had I been active at that point in the game. That was my initial reaction.

The flaw with this is that ABR may not have been voting Dann for that exact reason, but I'm happy to assume it unless he says otherwise.

it feels off since we just finished a game where you didn't TR ABR (definitely not early?) that you have a hard(?) read early.

I feel like you'd be inclined to take a stance on that or at least
ask for examples or something.

i don't see why i do this before he responds tbh. i didn't get vibes from him

[Hopkirk]

just talking through some stuff with the other atm, we'll get to this eventually. at the moment we're discussing how hectic is clearly tearing up cardboard boxes in the background.

he sent this picture through:


then sent this and said to post it instead of the first one because it was much better


which basically showed he was lying about it being his cat doing the tearing as there's no claw marks in the boxes or anything

[Hopkirk]

let me know if you can't see the pictures, flopz has just started a toxic 1v1 with hectic because hectic can see the pictures but flopz can't

[Hopkirk]

that's a lot of shade you're throwing at me. why would you expect me to comment on that? you having sus on someone wasn't noteworthy for me

[Hopkirk]

your ABR read still doesn't gel with me either and i don't like your framing of it in 217, want to discuss it

[Hopkirk]

what do you mean spicy?

[Hopkirk]

maybe i'm misunderstand the strength of your ABR read. weren't you tossing and turning there most of last game?

[Hopkirk]

what's vanity?
so?
so why do i need to get to it right now? there's very clearly other slots i'm interested in. why would i want to prime their responses?

[Hopkirk]

On ABR? I think I was town on him for most of the game until the end kinda.

i thought you were scumreading him and me for half the game?

[Hopkirk]

i should probably clarify i'm on a discord call right now so i might be missing things due to memes, but reading back to that post i don't think your read on A50 thing was really something worth commenting on

[Hopkirk]

I'm sensing that there's a disconnect between us that might be boiled down to more of a miscommunication than anything.

Do you have any thoughts on A50 as of right now, or no?

no, i can't recall anything they posted except vaguely remembering they said two players they didn't know (discounting myself)
we haven't substantially talked about this game yet except for cat related stuff and hectic's thoughts from 6am

I don't think I was? I'd have to look back. I vividly remember making a post in the neighborhood about ABR being "town af" so that might be clouding the rest of what happened that game. I wasn't very engaged in it unless I was being directly pushed.

maybe i'm misremembering your read. if it was in the hood i never read the big 20 page hood postgame

A vanity is when one person is voting away from the current main wagons.

It's a bit of a stretch for me to call it a "vanity" but given where most of the attention is being centered in the game at the moment prior to our interaction, I don't think it's the worst description.

ok,i know what a VW is, i was wondering what you meant. i'm not really concerned with it? i'm looking at the worst and johnny or jackson (i get the two names mixed up and not 100% which is in this game tbh) right now. any interaction you have with A50 is more useful to look at when A50 responds.

[Hopkirk]

FWIW I think it's worth mentioning that that game isn't a great representation of my town-game, at least in my opinion.

you did say that in the thread postgame yeah. i don't really have a solid opinion of you yet (maybe +town for the assuming i'd read/talk about your A50 comment actually) from what you were saying earlier.

In fact, I was TRing him so hard that he thought I was attempting to buddy him, and thus he put a SR on me for it.

Towards the end of the game my opinion was definitely swaying on him though, which is more representative of that tossing and turning mentality you were talking about.

ah, no i was misremembering you as SRing him because i remembering thinking you and ABR weren't aligned. thinking/looking back that was because ABR sheeped my vote on you at one point then was SRing you when I was later. now that you mention it i remember you saying that you weren't SRing people who SR you since ABR/someone else were some of your top TRs

[Hopkirk]

Is your JV thing based purely off the intro?

What are your thoughts on TW? Or are they all in your ISO?

yeah, that's basically all he's posted. hectic also disliked it because it was reaching out to a couple of people, but the history feels like it mitigates that and i guess i haven't played with him. have you got any thoughts there?

i think i have more stuff i wanted to talk about regarding TW but i'll likely leave them for when i'm less distracted and when more people have weighed in.

[Hopkirk]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

reading thru the game rn - uhh I mean I am not an alt of anyone on mafiascum. My homesite I play on is epicmafia, my account there is called shady or shady12. I've played one mafiascum game and it was a newbie game.

hm, i'm not sure i buy it. i'm getting strong vibes that you're an alt of this guy: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=33678

[Hopkirk]

Dann and Dunn are at the top of my town list. want to discuss who else to remove from the POE with hectic when he's free

[Hopkirk]

@hercule - are you an alt of anyone? you read like an alt of someone

reading thru the game rn - uhh I mean I am not an alt of anyone on mafiascum. My homesite I play on is epicmafia, my account there is called shady or shady12. I've played one mafiascum game and it was a newbie game.

hm, i'm not sure i buy it. i'm getting strong vibes that you're an alt of this guy: memberlist.php?mode=viewprofile&u=33678

If you're joking it missed the mark for me, maybe that's some known troll or something LOL

if you're being serious well... oka can prob back me up from his teammate dkkoba who plays there too

if anyone ask if i'm serious i'm happy to explain whether a comment is serious or whether i was joking, then proceed to explain and ruin the joke.
i was joking. i linked someone who was going to be on our team mafia team last year but had to sub out before they could start. i am accepting that you are who you say you are and anything else i've said casting doubt on your identitity is memeing.

[Hopkirk]

he thinks he liked ythan because they were vibing on pooky you as your first two posts were a bit nervous and it was a good attack to put you under pressure if you were already nervous as scum
i'mma gonna go read back and see what he means

[Hopkirk]

the vibe he got from DGB was how she was attacking you in particular

[Hopkirk]

pooky = poking

[Hopkirk]

how are you reading Ythan and DGB @Herc?

[Hopkirk]

How do you vibe with someone's whose only points are that I'm a) nervous (i'm not) and b) lying about being bored?? LMAO like get out of here with that

vibing on sus of you?

[Hopkirk]

Dgb idr if we've ever played a game together but it's a delight to be vibing with you.

Dgb idr if we've ever played a game together but it's a delight to be vibing with you.

We played before and we been vibin' forever!

like this feels like a reasonable thing to say?
it feels like you don't like them both & you think one is buddying the other, so i think i'm missing something about what you're saying/could you clarify

[Hopkirk]

you're sure it's not more like eleven and a bit?

[Hopkirk]

hey hercule, has the ringer your team brought in been reading?

[Hopkirk]

was it really a case?

the merits of the case?

in rvs? push yeah, but i don't think they'd call it a case either?

i've been told one of your teammates is one of the best all time town players on mafia universe, can they bring in the solve?

[Hopkirk]

i should probably comment that i don't have a read on DGB whatsoever and kind of liked the vibes from ythan since i'm not sure if i said that before anytime

SPF i've been told is VERY good. i'm looking forward to hearing their reads, are they agreeing with you right now or have they not weighed in?

[Hopkirk]

ha, you may have 3 pals you can rely on constantly looking at the game but i have uh... like maybe hectic when he feels like it at some point hopefully

[Hopkirk]

I think trying to read players on how good/bad they are just makes your own thoughts unstable. Mafia isn't like a tradtional game, the concept of good/bad doesn't feel very defined

I'm not sure why this is something you want to lean on Hopkirk

what are you saying? not sure what you're addressing

[Hopkirk]

wait are Winter Flakes and unwnd the same, right? yeah? why are you posting on two accounts LOL pls

i think one is unwnd and one is uncrowned?

[Hopkirk]

Uncrowned, representing The Four Seasons
unwnd, representing Mana Crypt

herc feels like he's engaging me without trying to pocket me and i like that

[Hopkirk]

legitimately engaging/thinking about what i say too

[Hopkirk]

We're not the same people, I think you're confusing me with uncrowned

@Hopkirk just tonally twitched at you calling out for a solve in relation to one of hercule's team members lol

i don't think getting more voices from a slot i like is a bad thing. i don't think i said i was planning on hard sheeping whatever they say, so don't worry i'm not. if anything, if i like what they say then i'll try to grab credit for it and make it look like they're sheeping me for those sweet tiebreak points.

[Hopkirk]

I'm hesitant on your interaction with hercule but I won't make it a big deal for now

What do you think about the other half of the game going on right now? As in, the half that is voting IV and perhaps myself that has reasons to

hesitant how

eh, if i had a read on it i'd have commented. unsure what to think currently tbh and looking at getting some TRs

[Hopkirk]

So you believe in working from the list up instead of down then yeah? Meaning, you like townreads and then PoEing scum? Is that what gravitated you to Hercule

absolutely, i can quote myself saying this is exactly how i like to play (as town) from 2 games/about a month ago then show you me playing that exact way. TRs + POE.

[Hopkirk]

my early scumreads er... aren't that great. sometimes i just move whoever jumps out to me as worst into my townreads without commenting on it...

[Hopkirk]

to clarify the second point, because whoever i jump on first is usually town and it's a good way to see if i'm being gamestate-vibe-pocketed.

[Hopkirk]

Dunn/Dann/Herc/ maaaaybe DGB/winterflakes

[Hopkirk]

who do you townread then and why not dann/herc? are they neutral still or lower leaning

[Hopkirk]

you didn't even put your old pal hopkirk in there. makes sense since i didn't ask about him, but it still kinda hurts y'know

[Hopkirk]

this game feels like it's inactive and is going to be thirty pages overnight isn't it

[Hopkirk]

if you want i can point to dozens of things that could count as trust tells, but that's only because i haven't rolled scum in 3 years
wait you're trying to get me modkilled. nice try, but i'm too smart for that

[Hopkirk]

I should probably look at IV sometime after I eat food. Flopz was getting annoyed at me and hectic for only having had one meal today each.

[Hopkirk]

I am not liking Hopkirk's non-game related busywork. It feels like game avoidance.

what are you talking about?

[Hopkirk]

what exactly looks like busywork to you. if you're talking about my long meme posts then i'm going to rain down upon you kiddo

[Hopkirk]

I like innocent villager for town, it's only 5% because of the friendly avatar.

don't think you can get away with ignoring me friendo

[Hopkirk]

don't like it when there's consequences to your actions, huh?

[Hopkirk]

i've been online and posting in some manner all day and you say i'm avoiding the thread? you gonna claim you've being 'sleeping' or 'working' or 'spending time with your family' or some other bullshit excuse? spare me.

[Hopkirk]

Now tell me what you're talking about. You've just changed from 'non game related' to 'bloated'.

[Hopkirk]

i've been online and posting in some manner all day and you say i'm avoiding the thread? you gonna claim you've being 'sleeping' or 'working' or 'spending time with your family' or some other bullshit excuse? spare me.

No, you're avoiding the topic of the game.

Attacking me personally

for things you predict I will do

(things that I am not in the habit of doing, BTW) has my scumdar vibrating, buzzing, and shaking itself off the lab bench.

Point to what you're talking about. That's not hard, it's arguably easier than not addressing it like you current aren't.
What am I attacking you for that I think you'll do exactly?

Now tell me what you're talking about. You've just changed from 'non game related' to 'bloated'.

It's the same thing.

Who do you expect to convince with this nonsense?

Those are incredibly different things. Non game related is non game related. Bloated you might want to define, because that has entirely different connotations. That would mean that my posts were overly padded unless I don't know the meanings of words of a sudden or unless you get creative with those definitions

[Hopkirk]

i've been online and posting in some manner all day and you say i'm avoiding the thread? you gonna claim you've being 'sleeping' or 'working' or 'spending time with your family' or some other bullshit excuse? spare me.

No, you're avoiding the topic of the game.

Attacking me personally

for things you predict I will do

(things that I am not in the habit of doing, BTW) has my scumdar vibrating, buzzing, and shaking itself off the lab bench.

Point to what you're talking about

. That's not hard, it's arguably easier than not addressing it like you current aren't.
What am I attacking you for that I think you'll do exactly?

Now tell me what you're talking about. You've just changed from 'non game related' to 'bloated'.

It's the same thing.

Who do you expect to convince with this nonsense?

Those are incredibly different things. Non game related is non game related. Bloated you might want to define, because that has entirely different connotations. That would mean that my posts were overly padded unless I don't know the meanings of words of a sudden or unless you get creative with those definitions

It's right there in post #339, that I cited.

Are you tossing spaghetti?

so you're saying that you don't eat or sleep? quit bullshitting and answer the question

[Hopkirk]

I am outnumbered. I guess I'm just going to have to take things in my own hands and vig him.

pretty garbage reaction to being called out for specifics. how is 'being outnumbered' an issue if you plan to explain your thought process and haven't been able to yet? weak copout

[Hopkirk]

innocentvillager (4): unwnd, Dunnstral, Dannflor, OkaPoka

This is a travesty

is the travesty too many on IV or not enough on your scumread (presumably Dann)

and why not weigh in on DGB while you're here, it's pretty fun

[Hopkirk]

my partner Flopz has just noted, while congratulating me for getting into this toxic 1v1, that DGB probably meant I was 'bloating' the thread by making lots of posts rather than that my individual posts were bloated. that's bullshit too. i make all of my posts for reasons

[Hopkirk]

good reasons.

[Hopkirk]

is the travesty too many on IV or not enough on your scumread (presumably Dann)

There's no way ABR genuinely thinks Dann was scum and I'm not sure why you believed it

agreed, i don't get it so i was 99% confident it was saying the IV wagon was bad. i'm giving him two options even if i know which one he's picking anyway to start a conversation because i much prefer that phrasing to 'so do you TR IV' which doesn't really go anywhere except him explaining a read he was presumably going to do eventually anyway. it's a pretty fun way pf phrasing questions, you should try it some time.

[Hopkirk]

Pipe down ABR I still rememmber Fake Peoples

i do too but what has he even done so far to warrant you saying that

I enjoy talking that sass with ABR

If he's town he'll respond in a way that gets me to read him

what's your record at reading him? if it's good and you get a TR result i could

sheep

take credit for that.

[Hopkirk]

i was planning to leave ABR for a while as i scumread them early last game we played then began liking them more as the game went on and we started to mind meld at times (although i did start doubting that later in the game due to a big townblock)

[Hopkirk]

and here we see DGB continuing to evade us

[Hopkirk]

was that important to post that it took you away from the stuff you were

presumably

busy putting together on me?

[Hopkirk]

I am outnumbered.

I guess I'm just going to have to take things in my own hands and vig him.

gee, i wonder who the 'we' that you previously acknowledged is referring to.

[Hopkirk]

and here we see DGB continuing to evade us

Who is "us?" Your scum team?

you think this is good shade? i've had shade thrown at me by

flopz

before.

[Hopkirk]

how about we wagon theworst too

[Hopkirk]

dgb i liked before i started interacting with them, then them responding as though

you gonna claim you've being 'sleeping' or 'working' or 'spending time with your family' or some other bullshit excuse? spare me.

this was fully serious felt... really weird. like idk if i'm misreading 363, i asked Flopz and he had the same interpretation as me, but that doesn't feel like he's engaging in good faith as in engaging as though he's trying to solve me? the exchange kinda feels like he thinks i'm fully serious, SRing him, and he doesn't want to back down.

I'm not really a fan of the 'oh well how about i vig shoot you' line he made which feels really posturey. Not pointing to specifics also feels kind of weird since if it's legit shouldn't he think that wins the 1v1? Instead he responds to other stuff, throws shade at me, then leaves. I'm not saying that leaving is bad, but the focus seems kind of off for someone who's got a solid case on why they think they won the election/hard SR me.

[Hopkirk]

@AGAR: Interested in Reckoner's thoughts on the game btw if he has any.

[Hopkirk]

Ythan and Herc i feel is kinda TvT, not really sure I get the conflict. Could you talk to me about it Ythan?

how drunk are you btw Ythan? i could go over to the SE and see if you've been posting anywhere and try to judge from there, but easier to just ask tbh. I remember townspewing (then getting voted off) a lot while I got a little too drunk in last team mafia... do you drunken townspew too?

[Hopkirk]

Sounds like Poe might mean something slightly different (but similar) on epicmafia. Most people here would use it to mean what's left after removing scumreads. Well, I thought they did but it's possible I'm using it wrong too.

[Hopkirk]

Ythan and Herc i feel is kinda TvT, not really sure I get the conflict. Could you talk to me about it Ythan?

I haven't really been building a case specifically or anything just the observations I've been posting. Is there any specific bit you'd like to talk about?

how drunk are you btw Ythan? i could go over to the SE and see if you've been posting anywhere and try to judge from there, but easier to just ask tbh. I remember townspewing (then getting voted off) a lot while I got a little too drunk in last team mafia... do you drunken townspew too?

I've got a pretty good buzz actually and I do feel like it's a good opportunity to be more obvtown than usual but that's probably not true because I guess you could just fake it I you were a sociopath I'M NOT THOUGH

Actually your thoughts on DGB (more in ration to herc than my toxic 1v1 with them) could be good. How do you feel about how herc is characterizing those interactions?

I'm glad you're not a sociopath

Sounds like Poe might mean something slightly different (but similar) on epicmafia.

And chance anyone in this game or a teammate can weigh in on this?

I think that's team epicmafia essentially, but it's not an out there explaination, there's probably plenty of people here who define Poe in that way or similar.

The difference to mine is that his is (bottom X) as opposed to (unsorted and I'm aware this includes town)

[Hopkirk]

I won't bother asking hectic if he picked up any of their lingo while he was playing 'down under'.

Can you remind me roughly what you've done this game Oka?

[Hopkirk]

my takeaway there is that you didn't try to hype yourself up. nice.

[Hopkirk]

above post was @Oka (as is this post) because i didn't reload the page.

do you & koba have any thoughts on herc? you've played together a bit

i'll read IV properly now

[Hopkirk]

above post was @Oka (as is this post) because i didn't reload the page.

do you & koba have any thoughts on herc? you've played together a bit

i'll read IV properly now

have you ever played with radiantcowbells and his megafans

i've played a few games with radiantcowbells and have on at least 2 occasions discussed them with people irl (when they naturally came up in the discussion). i assume you had more to ask here based on my response right?

[Hopkirk]

vibes i got from inncentvillager iso was a kind of hyper-excited style in the middle that i'm honestly not sure how to read, a notable flip on the worst below (the change in vote comes right after i vote the worst after i join the thread), and a lack of engagment when he starts coming under pressure? Reading the last few posts I don't get a strong sense of engagement with the wagon on him.
I think I liked the Agar read even though idk how I feel about that slot (aside from bad early vibes on my first read)

VOTE: the worst i wanted to play a town game with you for once Worsty

why did you roll scum without me

town: hercule, Dannflor, AGar

conflicted: the worst/Daddisi hydra

scum: VOTE: unwnd

nvm the worst is prob town

[Hopkirk]

@Ythan if my characterization is ridiculous, I feel like you should easily be able to provide an alternative (and correct fypov) narrative of what your "big pings" are

from your experience is not being able to provide an alternative narrative actually scum indicative? i always kind of characterize scum as being able to justify anything as they aren't bound to one specific motivation. technically town aren't, but it's rarer for them to lie about it

hahah oh boy more votes

im not as easy to miseliminate as i was before, sorry scum

mark your fucking days

i don't really like the general scope of this comment? are there any specific votes you don't like on you right now

[Hopkirk]

i don't really like the general scope of this comment? are there any specific votes you don't like on you right now

by general scope do you mean my scope is too generally sahding my votes? or you generally don't like my scope?

im gonna assume the former, but to answer your question no not really in particular atm. i will look more at some point maybe

pretty much the first one. trying to understand if your issue is votes being on you at all, or the votes that

are

on you and

which

votes.

[Hopkirk]

@Ythan if my characterization is ridiculous, I feel like you should easily be able to provide an alternative (and correct fypov) narrative of what your "big pings" are

from your experience is not being able to provide an alternative narrative actually scum indicative? i always kind of characterize scum as being able to justify anything as they aren't bound to one specific motivation. technically town aren't, but it's rarer for them to lie about it

yeah 100%? I'm surprised that's even up for debate. If he's town he knows his thought process, and has a basis to say I'm mischaracterizing him, and can simply state it.

it's something that always resonates with me, when someone tries to define my actions in a certain way that doesn't fit what actually occurred (from my point of view, which is the only POV that I have 100% truth for), I want to set the record straight. So I am interested in his claim that I am doing this to him and I want to see what his side of the story is

If he's scum he will have to make something up, which we can compare to the actual content of his posts and see if it passes the smell test. By asking him to back up his claim, I am forcing him to do so (if he's scum etc etc)

just checking


(more seriously, i kind of misread your intent when i was asking this question. i was essentially asking are scum more likely to have a

good

justification for their thought processes- and whether town are more/less likely to have good justifications. if you mean you can't see any thought process, which is what the post i'm responding to you now reads as, then my question becomes less relevant)

pedit - i phrased that badly because i should probably sleep soon but i think the meaning comes out ok? having a

bad

looking explanation comes from town more than scum (albeit idk how much this is compared to the % a random slot is town)

[Hopkirk]

how come you didn't mention Oka's when I asked but did when he asked specifically? had you not looking at the context of his vote until then? if so then answering me with a none stand out feels like an incomplete answer to me.. i feel kind of sad if he's worth responding to and i'm not

[Hopkirk]

how come you didn't mention Oka's when I asked but did when he asked specifically? had you not looking at the context of his vote until then? if so then answering me with a none stand out feels like an incomplete answer to me.. i feel kind of sad if he's worth responding to and i'm not

this was IV. i should sleep sooner rather than later. i got up early because i was excited to start playing and hectic had been pinging me over discord with thoughts at like 6 and i wanted to get him and flopz online to talk at some point and meme around which was fun

[Hopkirk]

how come you didn't mention Oka's when I asked but did when he asked specifically? had you not looking at the context of his vote until then? if so then answering me with a none stand out feels like an incomplete answer to me.. i feel kind of sad if he's worth responding to and i'm not

it felt like a lot of effort to look at everyone's vote on me at the time so I didn't go back and reread, just gave my impressions at the time which really was none, I don't necessarily look at the votes themselves. more directed questions like Oka's are easier to answer so i went back and iso'd him and came up with that. it's nothing personal hopkirk lol

also excuse my tone if i sound snippy rn, i promise im more chill normally

yeah, i'm not a massive fan of the 'no' rather than just like... honesty in that scenario y'know? like saying you want to look into it would have rubbed me better? i'm joking when i'm saying i'm taking it personally, but the sentiment behind that is real, like it feels weird from my position when you're responding to a question i asked with a more comprehensive answer when someone else asks something so similar. i can get not answering, but i feel like saying you'd take a look after works better?

also, it does feel like the kind of thing people wagoned are aware of? which votes they don't like that is. i've been told that sometimes when i get wagoned i just get pissed off at the people in particular and start flinging personal attacks at them.

idk if you remember modding one of my newbie games 7 or 8 years ago. probably not best to look at that for meta in case you were wondering. i tried to use 15 year old meta on someone once and it wasn't especially useful, so 7/8 year old stuff is only going to be like idk, half useful i guess

[Hopkirk]

AGar were you trying to make one of the scummiest posts I've seen in a long time

Like I'd be a fucking fool for not voting you

VOTE: AGar

i can vibe with agar wagon

VOTE: agar

i'm fine with all 5 of the votes here tbh

...SPEEDRUN?

Can we do this on A50 instead?

Welp, until you all see the light...

VOTE: AGar

second too votes i'm less happy with, this one moreso than the other one

Why Agar, I just checked the last page and holy fuck it's either they slipped heavily or something happened haha

oof posting

1: A wagon on a slot like A50 is excellent. AGar isn't a bad option either though.

2: A50 has had the scummiest opening portion of posts in comparison to the rest of this plist in my opinion.

So when me/hectic said we didn't like their opening how come you didn't agree or comment on it when we were doing our 1v1? i think your 1v1 was the one where someone brought up 'hopkirk isn't commenting on my comments on A50' so i don't fully get why you wouldn't have commented on my thoughts on agar when i was saying we were paying attention to them?

That is not an explanation.

Page 1-10 also includes Me/Hopkirk interaction, does it not? Why no mention of anything there?

I'm not accepting that as a good explanation for a weak SL on me.

maybe it's just lack of talking about me causing me to feel sad and lonely, but it feels sad and weird that you didn't mention me at all in that catchup AGar

VOTE: AGar

i don't know if i'd have been bothered by this if unwnd didn't point it out but new york's hottest scumpost is 506. this post has everything:

-complaining about post count
-pointless filler that also randomly drops the only thing he's cared about thus far
-overreaction to titus
-useless nonanalysis on unwnd that turns into a suspicion for some reason
-a MYSTERY VOTE

ceph, i hate to ask, but what's a mystery vote
well seth, that's when you vote ABR without having ever mentioned him before anywhere in your iso for no apparent reason.

Hi scum!

I'll pull this apart, because you basically scum-claimed here:

- I 'complained' about post count, partially as a joke, and partially because I do it literally every game now once it hits a point of explosion because the site meta has shifted to pointless spam posting and I will old man at cloud this shit as much as I can.
- Dann's answer way back on Page 4 was not really of import at that point, but I felt it important to acknowledge it because it was the last thing I had commented on. He's acquitted himself relatively fine since then.
- No, my reaction to Titus was perfectly appropriate. I didn't realize Titus was on the playerlist during signups. I do not feel Titus takes a single thing I say in good faith and she proved that. I simply called that how I see it. That's called history. But jump to that defense there!
- Clearly I thought my apparently useless nonanalysis on unwnd was a little more meritous, hence the suspicion. Can you even keep up?
- My ISO was basically barren so literally any vote was going to be what you call a "MYSTERY VOTE" so you can just admit you've been waiting for me to post to set this one up and I'll say "it's ok, I'm sorry for your obvious scumplay."

The ABR vote and feelers were specifically to maybe hopefully coax something out of ABR considering he's been the quietest person in this thread wrt what is few posts actually say. I've literally never seen this from ABR and it's the antithesis to his bloated ego to sit back and let someone else dictate a gamestate.

Anyways, my policy is to vote scum when scum claims.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Cephrir

this reads explosively overreactive in a weird way to me. not sure what i think of it atm, the actual overreaction i'd probably lean town on in general but idk how much.

[Hopkirk]

Infinity agrees that AGar is townposting and likes the OMGUS vote on ceph

UNVOTE: AGar
VOTE: A50

can you talk more about the discussion you two had? i don't follow how (you scumread AGar)+(Infinity says they TR agar)>this. i want more details on the conversation?

VOTE: Jackson

what i'd have done if online here. nice

Day was shit to begin with, I'm going bye

see now i normally TR ATE stuff but i wasn't a fan of these three posts from Jackson. they felt out of nowhere

[Hopkirk]

Ydrasse hasn't said anything about this game yet.

Infinity liked my vote on you when I first did it. He hasn't said anything since saying he liked AGar and that he didn't like Ceph.

so Ydrasse hasn't said anything about me?

auro seems to be following the game, he's made some comments today and yesterday.

in summary:
-post 125 is fake
-ABR is displaying an unusual lack of effort. he's never seen ABR's scum game.
-townreading dann for depth of thought on page 6
-he is mindmelding with hectic
-he highlights the following quote and notes that AGar is right on point:

The ABR vote and feelers were specifically to maybe hopefully coax something out of ABR considering he's been the quietest person in this thread wrt what is few posts actually say. I've literally never seen this from ABR and it's the antithesis to his bloated ego to sit back and let someone else dictate a gamestate.

im in general agreement with him on abr thread. dann's posting is fine but a townread is premature, i don't believe i've seen anything i wouldnt be expecting wolf-dann to be doing.

(this is not the full extent but thats all i want to share)

can you clarify a bit more about Auro's thoughts on the ABR stuff assuming you're talking to someone who's seen a bit of town ABR recently and doesn't remember scum ABR?

JV is legitimately scum. Has zero reason to be SRing me here whatsoever.

This and A50 guys. Let's get it going.

Why aren't you going after JV?

FOS buddy, vote townie?

i'm currently deciding whether i want to put my vote on JV or WC. how're you vibing?

[Hopkirk]

can you talk more about the discussion you two had? i don't follow how (you scumread AGar)+(Infinity says they TR agar)>this. i want more details on the conversation?

Where did you gather that I SR AGar? Wagon vote?

I like wagons.

@DGB

I SR both A50 and JV. I will vote either one of them. Whichever one is more likely to be elimmed.

the wagon vote.

So when me/hectic said we didn't like their opening how come you didn't agree or comment on it when we were doing our 1v1? i think your 1v1 was the one where someone brought up 'hopkirk isn't commenting on my comments on A50' so i don't fully get why you wouldn't have commented on my thoughts on agar when i was saying we were paying attention to them?

Didn't see it.

So you agree that A50 early posting was bad and that JV is a viable vote but you're SRing me for... reasons?

Like have you explained why you don't like me this game yet? I'm still not really seeing it?

Or are you not SRing me at the moment?

are you talking to me?
i'm not SRing, i'm still in my sorting phase where i'm trying to get better reads. basically what i said to MT last game where i was throwing some shade at her as being different as i wasn't sure what i thought of it which she interpreted as me SRing her. idk yet and i'm trying to think what i think of you/johnny atm

second too votes i'm less happy with, this one moreso than the other one

This is kind of frustrating.

So you misremembered that I TR ABR very early in our last game together, and tried to shade me with that. You were incorrect.

Now this vote is something I specifically did last game, and you're saying you don't like it.

Obviously it can come from either alignment, but it really feels to me like you're picking and choosing here. Do you see where I'm coming from?

i don't really get what you mean/see what you're comparing to last game? can you clarify

Ydrasse thinks you're town.

yay

[Hopkirk]

Like anyone can cherrypick stuff that happened from one game and try to use it to their argument, but if you're going to play it that way then you have to provide reasoning as to why it's giving you bad vibes. How do you think that vote on AGar compares to my one on Infinity last game, if you have the time to look back at that?

looks pretty similar tbh?
your overall play doesn't feel the same but/feels like you're more kind of working with other people? but you said last game that that game wasn't how you normally play. do you think this is closer to your usual town style?

[Hopkirk]

^i looked at the game when i realized what you meant.

"looks pretty similar tbh?"

should be without the ?
looks pretty similar tbh.

[Hopkirk]

do you think this is closer to your usual town style?

Yeah, this is more my style when I'm taking things a bit more seriously, I'd say.

has hectic got much experience with you/any games you think are similar? i'll probably ask him anyway.

Also yes I am approaching the game from a Scum!A50 standpoint because that is my view. Why would I approach it otherwise? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

staypositivefriend's point was that she read you as basically **starting** with A50 scum and reading the game that way rather than striving to ascertain their alignment. I'm not sure if I can clarify it anymore than that. Basically she is suspecting you of having an agenda w.r.t. A50

what's the scum motivation there? I think A50 is a strong slot right and the argument doesn't strike me as though WF is making it expecting to see a big wagon from just what they've said? Am I missing some of SPF's thoughts here?

[Hopkirk]

do you think this is closer to your usual town style?

Yeah, this is more my style when I'm taking things a bit more seriously, I'd say.

has hectic got much experience with you/any games you think are similar? i'll probably ask him anyway.

Also yes I am approaching the game from a Scum!A50 standpoint because that is my view. Why would I approach it otherwise? Seems counter-intuitive to me.

staypositivefriend's point was that she read you as basically **starting** with A50 scum and reading the game that way rather than striving to ascertain their alignment. I'm not sure if I can clarify it anymore than that. Basically she is suspecting you of having an agenda w.r.t. A50

what's the scum motivation there? I think A50 is a strong slot right and the argument doesn't strike me as though WF is making it expecting to see a big wagon from just what they've said? Am I missing some of SPF's thoughts here?

did you read the entirety of the post I made with her reads? just asking so I know the context of this post you just made before we continue

i probably read it but don't remember it, so either i was skimming or it didn't stick with me

[Hopkirk]

ABR was relatively reserved during the game we played that started 14 days ago and ended like 3 days ago. It wasn't what i was expecting to see since i'd skimmed a couple of his guides a few years back where he kept saying 'pick someone and tunnel them to death. here's some games where i tunneled people to death'.

[Hopkirk]

i think you were in a lot of POEs towards the end because of the deepwolf. you gave me townpings as did uncrowned which i was struggling to reconcile with the number of TRs i had in general that game and your reads worked so i guess so

[Hopkirk]

i'm pretty interested in these slots atm, how are you two feeling them (ABR/herc)

JacksonVirgo
AGar
the worst
Almost50
Titus
uncrowned (ish)
xtoxm (remember 1 post)

[Hopkirk]

did your team have any thoughts on the worst @herc?

[Hopkirk]

how's he vibing to them? me/hectic weren't big fans (hectic hasn't read up today though so that could have changed?)

[Hopkirk]

how are they *

[Hopkirk]

no he was right there.

i think i'll eat dinner...

[Hopkirk]

god I am kind of coming around on town!ythan but it's triggering me haha. would scum really just counter my response to them by saying "no u r lying" if so that would be kind of iconic

Welcome to mafiascum.

[Hopkirk]

give a quicktownblock Ythan, stat

[Hopkirk]

i'm reading you both as town (Ythan/Herc). how about revisiting each other in a day or two?

[Hopkirk]

give a quicktownblock Ythan, stat

I'm going to acknowledge that I saw this but not do it because I don't have those feelings.

you don't have what feelings?

[Hopkirk]

wellthatsdifficulttoworkwith

[Hopkirk]

Consider my vote to be on agar at the moment but also it's not there because I just had a quickhammer last game and I would like more time D1 this time.

[Hopkirk]

Are they secretly launchbait?

[Hopkirk]

it's not a lolhammer i'm concerned about, it's getting too confident too fast as i was happy with the lolhammer when it happened

[Hopkirk]

specifically myself getting confident. i need time to sort Jackson y'knos

[Hopkirk]

@a50 - did you have an alt called jarjar (something?)

[Hopkirk]

they're not in a townpool that's increasing in size for me

[Hopkirk]

why and how confident is "net towny"? from your ISO i see your reasons given were 1) you liked his callout of Dann's "overperformativeness" in his quick vote switch at the beginning and 2) you liked his knee jerk reaction (im assuming his omgus on ceph? or was it the other one? i liked his omgus on ceph)

i don't have any scumreads. my townreads are hercule and unwnd and I doubt any of that is going to change soon. My nullpile looks something like {Dunnstral, Winter Flakes, Titus, AGar, OkaPoka, Cephrir, DGB}

and what about those of us you've missed out of this...

[Hopkirk]

hopkirk while im on is there anything in particular you want to discuss/want my opinion on?

i mean if you have explicitly said most of the game is null it's pretty hard to ask about your stances and thoughts on people tbh. i agree on the townreads, i'd generally want to hear more about people you have thoughts on

actually, i should've clarified that when i said "i don't have scumreads" i really mean "no one is really below my nullpile". so nvm, i apologize

so what's the difference between your nullpile and over people?

hi hopkirk, big fan

yay

[Hopkirk]

try and put your reads forward rather than asking people to ask you for your reads

hopkirk just referenced your townreads which is making me sweat, do I need to read back?

oh
jeez
I'm not even reading this game and I have like 8 townleans/reads

who are the people between your townreads and null pile?

IV has 2 townread/leans as far as i can tell...

[Hopkirk]

if i don't have scumreads and ive given my townreads and my nullpile, any guesses on where the rest of you are?

(ok, ok, varying degrees of townleans)

ooh i read this as scumleans first time

[Hopkirk]

can you explain JV, A50, TW?
also xtoxm i guess

[Hopkirk]

@IV- if it helps you with your estimate of how good my scumplay is i'm currently sitting on a 3 year & 25-30 game townstreak (including offsite stuff). It's an amazing feeling because I like being town. Any scum meta is very much out of date because I didn't even joke around back then. That only really started when Hectic joined the site. I was kind of a tryhard back then which is ironic because i was worse at mafia too... i do play a lot of irl mafia though (currently online but similar concept)

did you ask your team anything about me? i've mentioned that around gypyx recently.

[Hopkirk]

note to self to go through the posts you commenting on from jackson and follow up to see if i agree with what you're saying because i'm getting tired and have work tomorrow

[Hopkirk]

gypyx probably doesn't have the best read on me since we've played one game together and he was mostly-disengaged scum in it. haven't played more than i think 1 game with your team. i did have a quick check between those two posts. i'm more concerned with your team's reads on other people because honestly i have no idea how any of your team's reads on me would differ if they were town or scum so i don't really get anything out of that. i'd prioritise slots i said i was interested in. that might have changed but i can't really feel like going back to it tonight

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk's #161 just feels aggravating and is the kind of thing that probably takes me off my balance. Prior posts were good but then this is just a pointless post, and he follows up by saying that it's pointless but deal with it. He's probably town, and I think I'm just prone to seeing shit like that as scumposting.

the first half of 161 was to setup the jokes in the second half and each of the points starting with '-' is either a direct joke, meant to be ironic, or referential humor.
i am sad to see that the humor may not have landed well

saying that's 'busywork' means you've missed the tone but it's also contextually really weird when i made 90ish posts yesterday and a heck of a lot of serious posts.

i'll read the rest of that tomorrow. i realized it was loooong and just looked over where my name had been mentioned because i like it when people talk about me

[Hopkirk]

if i don't leave now i'm going to read the whole thing tongiht beforee i sleep and i'm going to feel terrible tomorrow so i'm going to leave before i get the urge to

[Hopkirk]

it's been a while since we played together but yeeeeeah we go way back dude

so uh has this guy been transparently town?

idk I haven't seen many of his posts - show me what you're seeing?

almost50 is claiming he's transparently town and anyone who knows him must agree with him

lol

that's a very A50 thing to do

i'm tempted to just townbin A50 for being confident that like 4 different people can townread him. can anyone convince me this is a bad idea?

[Hopkirk]

Fwiw one of my bois thinks that Hercule had been slimy as well.

i'm trying to get hectic to help me with reads specifically on Winter Flakes (uncrowned) and The Worst right now because i really want his opinion on those

@Jackson:

I think this is a fairly town-indicative for Hopkirk here, Uncrowned is thinking everything he says is golden and that it should all be replied to and read. They continue to say that their read is "spicy" when it's really not.

doesn't this come out as town-uncrowned too, or do you not think they're legit in thinking it's spicy? if i take this perspective then i'd lean towards giving UC townpoints for it for having more confidence in his random vote/confusion that people aren't paying attention to him like that feels more coming like from town

[Hopkirk]

Wait why am I voting there, Hercule is > Flake.

VOTE: Hercule

i'm concerned that i actually don't have the attention span to read agar's walls. i'm going to force myself to in a bit though

xtoxm and ceph don't really give me any vibes? i feel like i should be getting something

[Hopkirk]

oh yeah i quoted that post then wrote a reply in quick reply i think

what oka said basically

[Hopkirk]

thanks fam

[Hopkirk]

ooh can you talk me through that well enough that i don't have to do the hard thinky stuff

i've realized it's getting late and i'm going to have to leave for the night because last night i think i left 3 times then came back read just one more little bit and that's probably not a healthy sign

xtoxm i want to sort. can someone help me sort them?

[Hopkirk]

i'm in like 4 weird kind of headspaces right now eh (not drugs or anything bad)
oka do the help thing on some slots

dgb kind of feels like they're faking their reads for reactions? their progression on me feels fake in a way that feels unnatural from scum or town.

why am i still here

[Hopkirk]

this game does weird things to people huh

[Hopkirk]

Maybe it's my own impatience but I've mulling over my vote on AGar and came to my own conclusion he isn't going to respond. The game has changed and so too is the way I read most players. Back in the day I'd come through their words to spot contradictions but I find scum nowadays don't really give a shit about making convincing arguments, no, it's more about the presentation. Something that makes townies go 'well, by effort and substantiation he must be town!' because people have gotten so traumatized by a red PM these days and believe scum just won't effort as much as town that it's almost bordering ridiculous. I am against this mindset because it assumes that people enjoy losing, which I'm pretty sure if you're playing any game the objective is to win.

This vote is something almost all of my team agree on. I don't really bode well with (post) (post) (post) analysis and instead giving a general description of what I see. As for what I see? I sorta let it slide but there was a moment where Hopkirk responded to me saying '

i kinda like to work list up and then down first, getting townreads

'. This is fine in practice, yet he remained quite passive-aggressive. I also think that line alone is disingenuous but is playing a part of his style right now, which all seems quite excessive to me. I think Hopkirk in that instance only responded that way because it sounded good, not that he really believed it. If his MO was to look for townies and form townblocks, then what is his explanation of splintered ridicule throughout the ISO. The shift in dynamic doesn't bode with his own words. Go look at the way he silver tongues Hercule then ridicules others. This is not paraphrasing but this man really said 'don't like it when there's consequence for your actions, huh?' It's all based on

proving a point

which is both petty and scummy.

It'd be really easy and really lazy to say 'he is being LAMISTy' but seriously that's boring and using umbrella terms like that caution back to the days where people would do things like Why me = Fry me. Mafia Jargon doesn't make someone scum guys, and I actually think scum are more prone to be lazy about their reads because it's pretty difficult to try and convince people.

what does the bolded part mean? that's not a quote and it makes 0 sense
wtf? passive agressive? i'm actively aggressive to anyone bad enough to call me scum. how exactly are you calling me passive aggressive then going on to reference my active aggression
your whole team?

does that include Menalaque?

this is an important question. going to want to hear exactly what each of them are thinking rather some coward-ass hiding behind your 'team' bullshit
the ridicule i deliver is highly deserved, designed to reveal the pathetic who would cower behind their mediocrity.

[Hopkirk]

lol hopkirk hopped in there real quick

what exactly are you implying?

it's 6.30 in the UK and i finished doing some visible other stuff. when do you expect someone with a job to start posting, lunchtime?

[Hopkirk]

'this means the quote is paraphrased'

"this means the quote is pretty much actual"

this is literally the quote

Alright so what does that ridicule mean for you and why are you not acting upon your own words?

quote the post because i can't find that anywhere in my iso

what words am i not acting on? just because i think someone is small-brain it doesn't make them scum.

answer the fucking question about menalque right now

[Hopkirk]

i have twenty minutes. if you don't engage with me now then it's not happening until friday because i do have a job and hobbies.

[Hopkirk]

it doesn't take this long to answer the question you ignored first time round. don't come back with any shit about 'i didn't see it' because you read the post i bolded the question in and chose not to respond to it

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: unwnd

[Hopkirk]

are you fucking serious?

[Hopkirk]

why does this 1v1 feel oddly personal have you guys played with each other before

nope, never met the guy before. townread him before this. probably still do. my vote is on him.

[Hopkirk]

lol hopkirk hopped in there real quick

what exactly are you implying?

it's 6.30 in the UK and i finished doing some visible other stuff. when do you expect someone with a job to start posting, lunchtime?

nothing really, the timing was just coincidentally right when he made his case so it looked funny, that's all, probably NAI

you mean twenty minutes after it during the time that accountant!hopkirk is going to be on the forum between finishing work, eating dinner, and the thing that i do every tuesday at 7? how exactly is that noteworthy. i don't like shade.

[Hopkirk]

IV and Oka how the fuck are you ok with that bad faith bullshit

anyone who says 'I don't need to answer the question' when the question is 'does one of your teammates scumread me' after someone says 'all my teammates scumread you' isn't playing in remotely good faith and i'm not taking a second of that kind of shit

[Hopkirk]

he's very clearly avoiding the thread and intending to come back at the time i said i had to leave

[Hopkirk]

plus there's some incredibly shady shit going on with his team right now

[Hopkirk]

ask your teammates because i can't clarify on that last point and see how they feel about that 'all of my team think you're scum' post he just made

His team (Menalaque, Beeboy, MariaR)
My team (flopz, hectic, zaiden)

[Hopkirk]

what did menalaqe say. last time i'm asking this

[Hopkirk]

IV going up is about the sum of my read changes in the catch up i've done btw

[Hopkirk]

i know Menal doesn't scumread me here. why are you pretending he does?

[Hopkirk]

what did menalaqe say. last time i'm asking this

Why is this what you care about the most?

because i know menal doesn't scumread me here so why are you pretending he does?

[Hopkirk]

he has enough games with me to know the thing that you're 'all' in agreement makes me scum is exactly how i play as town. i throw mostly-joking angry shade and ATE at people who push me or say stuff i don't like. he's played 2-3 games of me doing that, commented to effect he knows that, commented that he found it funny, and clearly is aware of my sense of memeing based on how we've interacted outside of mafia games. you don't reach that conclusion that you're pretending you ALL agree on if he was involved when you discussed it

[Hopkirk]

this is very explicitly a playstyle point that 3 people who i've never played with have decided is scummy after discussing it with someone who knows it's town indicative or NAI at worse? bullshit. that discussion didn't happen and you're faking that it did.

[Hopkirk]

Maybe it's my own impatience but I've mulling over my vote on AGar and came to my own conclusion he isn't going to respond. The game has changed and so too is the way I read most players. Back in the day I'd come through their words to spot contradictions but I find scum nowadays don't really give a shit about making convincing arguments, no, it's more about the presentation. Something that makes townies go 'well, by effort and substantiation he must be town!' because people have gotten so traumatized by a red PM these days and believe scum just won't effort as much as town that it's almost bordering ridiculous. I am against this mindset because it assumes that people enjoy losing, which I'm pretty sure if you're playing any game the objective is to win.

This vote is something almost all of my team agree on.

I don't really bode well with (post) (post) (post) analysis and instead giving a general description of what I see. As for what I see? I sorta let it slide but there was a moment where Hopkirk responded to me saying 'i kinda like to work list up and then down first, getting townreads'. This is fine in practice, yet he remained quite passive-aggressive. I also think that line alone is disingenuous but is playing a part of his style right now, which all seems quite excessive to me. I think Hopkirk in that instance only responded that way because it sounded good, not that he really believed it. If his MO was to look for townies and form townblocks, then what is his explanation of splintered ridicule throughout the ISO. The shift in dynamic doesn't bode with his own words. Go look at the way he silver tongues Hercule then ridicules others. This is not paraphrasing but this man really said 'don't like it when there's consequence for your actions, huh?' It's all based on

proving a point

which is both petty and scummy.

It'd be really easy and really lazy to say 'he is being LAMISTy' but seriously that's boring and using umbrella terms like that caution back to the days where people would do things like Why me = Fry me. Mafia Jargon doesn't make someone scum guys, and I actually think scum are more prone to be lazy about their reads because it's pretty difficult to try and convince people.

[Hopkirk]

i asked you many times whether menal agreed with this. there is no reason to dodge my question unless you're playing in bad faith.

[Hopkirk]

i'm going to admit i read 'almost all' as all here, but the fact that you wouldn't tell me if it was menal is just as bad as if you'd said all

[Hopkirk]

and that's probably me for the evening. good fucking job

[Hopkirk]

Ythan
Almost50
Cephrir
innocentvillager
Hopkirk
Dannflor
hercule
OkaPoka
Dunnstral

townreads in no specific order. i'll sort through all the isos on saturday

[Hopkirk]

jeez idk ive played like 1 game with hopkirk but i thought he was kinda lighthearted and funny all the time so this sudden anger is pretty jarring for me and i don't want to piss him off more because i get uncomfortable with confrontation but i gotta admit i had the same gut reaction as dgb

which game are you talking about? last year's team mafia right? what do you remember about my play that game?

[Hopkirk]

i'm not really online, i'm doing stuff over discord with friends. one happens to be hectic who dropped some thoughts. that's going to be fun sometime

[Hopkirk]

jeez idk ive played like 1 game with hopkirk but i thought he was kinda lighthearted and funny all the time so this sudden anger is pretty jarring for me and i don't want to piss him off more because i get uncomfortable with confrontation but i gotta admit i had the same gut reaction as dgb

which game are you talking about? last year's team mafia right? what do you remember about my play that game?

Yes.

Not that much except that your opening here was in character and unsurprising to me; I feel like most of that game followed a similar path to where you started here and I remember town leaning you pretty much the whole time we were both alive.

so last year i went on many long drunked rants where i was telling everyone who was voting for me that they were bad at the game while swearing at them a lot
then you voted me off, i flipped town, then you flipped my top scumread the next day and we won
you don't remember that? it feels memorable. i got very drunk and angry.

[Hopkirk]

that townleans ceph more for me, hectic agrees

[Hopkirk]

Hopkirk if you had my vote who would you want me to vote

i'm going to need until end of Saturday to let you know. i've been looking for town so far.

[Hopkirk]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot. i'm very concerned with their team as much as i am with the slot right now.

[Hopkirk]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

he just said 'his entire team' is sus of me. ask your partners about that in your discords.

@Agar - i didn't put him in my townblock because i want to reviewhim so probably town. this thing today is weird and shook my confidence in a slot i liked until now. i realize i'll probably like it again when i'm not as mad at him in a couple of days

[Hopkirk]

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot.

i'm very concerned with their team

as much as i am with the slot right now.

can you elaborate on this without breaking any rules? i thought i knew what you meant before but now I'm a bit confused

hm
1- i cannot be specific without rule breaking
2- ask your teammates about the parts where i can't be specific
3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team
5- you should be able to work out why i think there's something weird going on with that team RELATED to the fact that UNWND said all of his team are scumreading me
6- this is not related to who is in their team. the thing about menal is 100% separate to this
7- this does not directly relate to the game
8- i get the impression their team has some kind of a problem with my team

i can't really be more specific due to rules. ask your teammates

i have a picture of what unwnd scum would play like even though ive never played with unwnd scum before and its why im townreading that slot, but yeah its not exactly a scientific way of playing

well, go on then, share with the class!

unwnd as a person complains a lot about site culture and holds the opinion that scum suck because they put in minimal effort and scumhunting sucks these days because scum aren't even willing to play properly.

as a result i suspect unwnd would be the scum player that puts up reasonable effort in actual actively doing stuff

but this recent hopkirk case at first is complete cheeks and lazy even if it might be right, it would be right for the wrong reasons probably. there are a lot of better ways to attack hopkirk than introducing your case with a ramble about site culture and ending with a talk about buzzwords. idk maybe im crazy but i feel almost as if unwnd as scum would put in a bit more effort in digging up quotes and running a pbp analysis or something on casing hopkirk purely because i think unwnd sees that type of scumplay as very strong against how he perceives site culture meta.

but this is a very illformed thought because i have no idea of how unwnd actually plays lmao


also forming a townbloc without hopkirk or unwnd's consent as they crossvote each other is very much intentional

honestly, site meta / culture comments aside, that reasoning vibes with me because it would be such a lame fucking push from unwnd as scum that would be so unnecessary for them to do, don't really know why they would paint a target on themselves without a real case to back it up. like idt u really have to have an idea of unwnd's scumplay to think it seems town-motivated rather than scum-motivated. it would be one thing if like a solid towncore was assembling that scum needed to break up + start spewing about deepwolves, but that wasn't really the gamestate at all

i was townreading unwnd until today and i'm voting them without necessarily scumreading them right now. i want to review that slot. i'm very concerned with their team as much as i am with the slot right now.

i think ur just mad bro

Just to scare you guys I am capable of faking laziness as scum and making posts like this (and bad cases)

But Ceph is right this is not the game

i hate that time makes me agree with these three posts that it's

more

likely to come from town than scum. shit tier cases and REFUSING TO FUCKING ANSWER A STRAIGHT QUESTION AND ACTUALLY HAVING THE BAD FAITH FUCKING OUTLOOK TO SAY 'NAH I DON'T NEED TO ANSWER' WHEN I'VE MADE IT CLEAR I NEED THAT ANSWER TO READ YOU is shitty play because it's outright uncooperative. this is a team game. until you refused to answer that i was going to get jokey annoyed then you made me actually legit annoyed with you.

gonna be level with you i don't think scum look scummy this game. i just doubt they look towny.

id love to hear more about this hypothesis. and why is "this game" different from a normal game?

quality of the playerlist and the fact I don't feel particularly good about any scumreads.

obviously scum players always play to be townread, and a lot of the game can be won by checking whether things people are doing are conventionally towny (they think they'll be townread for it) or actually legitimately towny (more sincere / the person may not realise what they're doing is towny sometimes).

nobody is like..failing that objective. I think everyone here feels entitled to be townread to some extent?

i think this pov comes more from town? i can see where it's coming from and the idea of struggling with trs due to having too many townreads feels like the kind of thing that's more likely to come from town than scum? but also i don't really see what scum is pushing unless they're either pushing or bussing agar and just want that to tip over? i don't really see a strat from scum in terms of wagons here because there's been nothing for so long?

[Hopkirk]

duck
IV, dgb, unwnd
Dunnstral (I like him but I'm sheeping)
Oka, Cephrir, Hercule
Dannflor, Flakes, A50, Ythan
Titus, AGar, Hopkirk
JacksonVirgo, ABR
Xtoxm

I'm probably wrong on someone in the 4p core, they're my adorable weak town tonereads

actually this reads list feels weird when i take it with the thing you posted about struggling to get scumreads that i thought was townie since it feels like you very much do have scumreads...

can you explain what each person did that makes you want to think they're town - especially for the bottom 6. just like a single sentence/point is fine since you just said it felt like there was reasons to like everyone and... i'm not sure i get that impression from the couple of pages of posting from you here?
also interested in your reads on Flakes/A50 and why they're there. I'm assuming that's around a town-lean?

AGar, you didn't think I'd let that fabricated-by-scum case on me slide, did you???

I'm amazed you chose to engage me at all based on how you've been playing this game. No one south of your townlist gets attention. I feel special.

@Hercule, re 1392:

Alright. Meh, but alright.

Re: DGB, 1398

: Confidence wasn't just limited to RVS. You haven't given any reads that impress me, sorry. The fact that you brought up Hopkirk posting "game avoidance" despite a mountain of evidence to the otherwise nullified your point and was a sketch as hell mistruth to bring into things. Your limited interactions are a red flag because you show no attempt to actually sort the people in the null bin, specifically. That you've refused to engage with scumreads is just another fact that I noted, and I can't help that you were extremely blatant with your selective engagement. The naked readlist wasn't a crux, was just an observation that in kind with everything else, it stinks. Your votes have been mostly lifeless, you haven't tried to rally the troops or even mention those folks, and you haven't tried to sort out any of your nulls. Can't help that the facts are the facts.

to clarify, which of this is the bit that's the reason for not liking DGB? obviously you're saying a lot of things that you don't really like, but i'm not sure if you're pointing specifically to one or two of them as very specifically the scum indicative ones? could you make it a little clearer for me pls

Ythan
Almost50
Cephrir
innocentvillager
Hopkirk
Dannflor
hercule
OkaPoka
Dunnstral

townreads in no specific order. i'll sort through all the isos on saturday

Why Ceph & Ythan? (Sell me these and I may have a solve)

Ceph - sheeping townreads from my townreads because they haven't pinged me, a lot of my TRs have them as strong town, and i can't even separate auro/ceph from the one game i've played with ceph so don't remember enough for a solid meta read.
Ythan - early game tone. mostly from their interactions with hercule. it didn't give the sense of someone who was worried about herc's read on them when ythan was pushing/interacting with herc. had a kind of fearless feeling (from both sides) where they were pushing something it felt like they believed and not especially caring how it looked when they were 1v1ing? gave kind of the impression of a 1v1 where they're more concerned with attacking the other person than looking good, or getting the other person votedout

[Hopkirk]

that screams of frustrated townie who is like "wtf is this terrible push plz eat deez nuts"

gosh, you wouldn't be trying to buddy me and/or be on a team full of people who've had at least 1/2 of their member be in most/all of my recent games would you?

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

i've seen 1616, i'm going to respond to this after my amazing rebuttle to 1616 in my next post. i hope you're all ready for it...

[Hopkirk]

Yeah sure, I'll play hardball.

I want to take away from the things I said in my #1250. Not repeating myself but this point to me is very integral to my thought, and generally speaking I do maintain that I don't like highlighting specific posts and instead create a general picture. Hopkirk's demeanor on the surface seems OK, but when it comes to aggression it all becomes merely proving a point. I believe that the former is a merely a veil and something he uses to establish tonal presence in the game, which is something I very much expect scum to do. It's one thing to just be a happy/friendly guy but the way he uses said friendliness just gives me the absolute creeps. Compare his earlygame to now and it's like he was tired of putting up the front. The poking and observing he was making in relation to what was going on all feels manufacted, such as the way he navigates coming around to Hercule (you can look at ISO if you want).

Actions speak louder than words, and maybe Hopkirk is aware of that. I think Hopkirk display a lot of self-consciousness if you dig into the way he words his posts to people as well. Just a ton of 'oh haha, was joking' or a necessity to over-explain an interaction by adding two more unprompted posts. How do I make this more clear? When I'm scum and I know I don't really believe what I'm saying, the best thing I can do is pretend it matters to me. Yet, referring back to what I said before.

What does Hopkirk really have to show for his activity early on?

Why is he not here and keeping up the same pace.

I'm sure there will be a hipfire response from Hopkirk saying 'I'm just busy!

Your case on me sucked! Grrrr' but I think my point absolutely stands. The pressure is on himself and I think he's playing a game he hates to be in. Sure, call that a stretch by why would me calling him out with a shitpush just boil his blood so much? Probably because scum feel indignant towards townies and don't wanna feel like they're catching onto them. Is this confbiased on my end? Maybe a little, but it should make you all realize that Hopkirk is only looking out for himself and everything he did earlier on was fake, and time has only solidified that stance.

lol, get a job

[Hopkirk]

I think Hopkirk is really scum and the more people keep calling him town the more it brings me to action

so now that i've done my amazing response to 1616 this & his previous stuff is pretty much an outright scumclaim from unwnd.
unwnd says in 1616 that i'm scummy because of reasons including me not keeping the same pace during the 1 hour i can spend on mafia during work evenings as the day where i spent 5 hours in the thread.
shocking discovery though - unwnd claims his initial case on me had to be quick due to lack of time! it's almost like he's claiming scum since we can see his belief that not being able to play every minute of the day is scum indicative... so there's literally no possible explanation he can possibly have for not making his case on me at the beginning since that would mean he wasn't able to play then due to time, which he's established is scum indicative. nice job revealing yourself lol

- actually i'm putting my response to 1616 in a different post because that's not going to be a jokey tone

[Hopkirk]

Yeah sure, I'll play hardball.

I want to take away from the things I said in my #1250. Not repeating myself but this point to me is very integral to my thought, and generally speaking I do maintain that I don't like highlighting specific posts and instead create a general picture.

Hopkirk's demeanor on the surface seems OK, but when it comes to aggression it all becomes merely proving a point. I believe that the former is a merely a veil and something he uses to establish tonal presence in the game, which is something I very much expect scum to do.

I

t's one thing to just be a happy/friendly guy but the way he uses said friendliness just gives me the absolute creeps. Compare his earlygame to now and it's like he was tired of putting up the front. The poking and observing he was making in relation to what was going on all feels manufacted

, such as the way he navigates coming around to Hercule (you can look at ISO if you want).

Actions speak louder than words, and maybe Hopkirk is aware of that.

I think Hopkirk display a lot of self-consciousness if you dig into the way he words his posts to people as well. Just a ton of 'oh haha, was joking' or a necessity to over-explain an interaction by adding two more unprompted posts.

How do I make this more clear? When I'm scum and I know I don't really believe what I'm saying, the best thing I can do is pretend it matters to me. Yet, referring back to what I said before.

What does Hopkirk really have to show for his activity early on? Why is he not here and keeping up the same pace. I'm sure there will be a hipfire response from Hopkirk saying 'I'm just busy!

Your case on me sucked! Grrrr' but I think my point absolutely stands.

The pressure is on himself and I think he's playing a game he hates to be in. Sure, call that a stretch by why would me calling him out with a shitpush just boil his blood so much?

Probably because scum feel indignant towards townies and don't wanna feel like they're catching onto them. Is this confbiased on my end? Maybe a little, but it should make you all realize that Hopkirk is only looking out for himself and everything he did earlier on was fake, and time has only solidified that stance.

how much are you engaging with menal here? me + multiple people who've played with me have told you that this isn't unusual. you skated around the question i asked you many many times about menal's thoughts that you intentionally decided not to engage with

this is too unspecific to respond to?

You're saying a lot of things that you're linking to be 'scum indicative' that are very much present in my towngame. how are you forming the link of 'x behavious is scummy so hop is scummy for it' without considering that it's probably just a personality tell since people have told you that's how i normally post and engage with the game?

like honestly this is shit. i literally spent the entire day across two games on saturday, more into this one, then more time on sunday. how the fuck do you expect me to do that when i clearly have a job and i've mentioned very clearly that i am busy in evenings? want my weekly schedule during the current pandemic? here. it's not very exciting.

9am-5pm every week day - work
7pm-12pm+ on tuesday/thursday - playing mafia/social deception games/other games with friends
7pm-somewhere between 10-12pm fortnightly (finished at 10 today) DnD campaign i'm Dming, including hectic and flopz as players (and zaiden planning to join next time, i'm not going to explain in depth why he's able to do it now when he initially wasn't sure)
sunday - DnD for most of the day. no MS friends involved in this. did not happen last sunday

Monday/Friday evening - days i can potentially do this stuff. amount of this time i can dedicate to mafia depends on general stress levels and if i want and/or need to do something else during the evenings
this saturday evening - plans with friends
saturday during the day - as per monday/friday evenings

it was quite a bit more varied pre pandemic, but this is roughly what it'll look like until the current lockdown is over. i don't currently have any holiday booked from work but i'll probably try and book some at the end of feb. i'll be sure to let you know in advance if this is the case

maybe you haven't noticed which post you made that made be actually angry. i'll quote it. then the rest where you decide to stick to it. hint, it's the one where you decide to ignore me and act superior about it. that turned my response from joking to pissed off

quick proof that this is my town play btw, take a look at my engagement with Lady L in Death curse: viewtopic.php?f=3&t=84709
this is pretty typical. she pushes me for garbage reasons including and mostly limited to 'dropped his posting gimmick when he realized it was impossible to maintain and actually play the game too' i hard townread her while continually throwing passive aggressive shit and shade at her. here's a fairly typical post of me throwing shade of the kind i was throwing early game. it doesn't get angry like my responses to unwnd because i wasn't angry and i'm not talking about my response to UW here - i'm talking about the stuff that he initially had a problem with me for (including my jokey shade being apparently scum-indicative for me). please note, this is just one example, it's very common and unwnd's partner menal who should know this is why my read on unwnd isn't as strong as my other trs now:

Currently I'm not the biggest fan of lady. Don't get me wrong, I think she's obvtown here, the bit I don't like is the whole 'look at me' ego thing.

Fortunately, I have a strategy to address this. I know I was planning to do more stuff tomorrow, but I feel like a much more valuable use of my time (in addition hopefully rather than instead of) is going to be reading up on lady a bit.

I've already found the perfect straying point. I plan to have a quick deep dive into lady's thoughts and perspectives on relationships. This feels like a great starting point where we can begin to build a better, more cooperative and sustainable working relationship.

I'm not entirely sure what I'm hoping to get out of this, and there's several hundred posts worth of content that I'll need to get through, but I'm fully expecting it to be both incredibly productive and only about half as creepy as it sounds.

[Hopkirk]

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

it's irrelevant to my read on unwnd, it's relevant to my earlier mindset before i realized it wasn't his 'whole team'. vaguely relevant to other stuff after that, but not meaningfully

3- unwnd has said all of his team agreed with voting me
4- look at who's on his team. look at who's on my team

i could be misremembering but didn't we like specifically establish that he said 'nearly all' or something like that

I still feel like this is a really sloppy misstep to make for scum!unwnd and doesn't actually lend any credibility to their push on you

duck
IV, dgb, unwnd
Dunnstral (I like him but I'm sheeping)
Oka, Cephrir, Hercule
Dannflor, Flakes, A50, Ythan
Titus, AGar, Hopkirk
JacksonVirgo, ABR
Xtoxm

I'm probably wrong on someone in the 4p core, they're my adorable weak town tonereads

actually this reads list feels weird when i take it with the thing you posted about struggling to get scumreads that i thought was townie since it feels like you very much do have scumreads...

can you explain what each person did that makes you want to think they're town - especially for the bottom 6. just like a single sentence/point is fine since you just said it felt like there was reasons to like everyone and... i'm not sure i get that impression from the couple of pages of posting from you here?
also interested in your reads on Flakes/A50 and why they're there. I'm assuming that's around a town-lean?

god I feel like I've already roundabout done this but I also recall you being a fan of making people do work so yeet

dann, flakes, A50, Ythan are there because all four of them have given me underwhelming tonal townpings. I feel like Dann hasn't been suffering silliness in a way that detracts from his ability to pocket. I feel like Flakes has defaulted to prickly & earnest before assertive which pings me as coming from a genuine mindset. I think A50 is drawing an absurd amount of attention to himself in a game which he might be able to deepwolf which is a very strange things to do as scum, but I don't understand his reads at all and he's not actually doing anything technically towny. Ythan seemed to respond kinda fine to pressure earlier and has slipped into a bunch of townpools so :shrug:

JV I'm legitimately struggling to townread but I also don't really outright scumread them atp? like I don't really pick up what they're putting down but I'm also just having a really hard time parsing it.

ABR I give exactly 0 fucks about but he seems really widely townread???

Xtoxm is the only person who I think is like, overtly scummy and it's really only because his Titus read felt too flourishy and underconsidered. Even then I'm surprised by that because he's technically a strong scum player, and he clearly wanted the read to look good.

Think of that readlist as an effort to solve bottom-down and I think it makes a lot more sense.

you probably have already done it, but i want to look at this summary while i'm going back through your iso on saturday. i kind of had the impression a lot of these were nully to you which is why i asked when i realized 'hang on, does TW read the game that way, they've given a readlist and it reminds me that they do kinda have a lot of neutral reads right?' not sure how i feel about your slot. should help sorting/looking at your mindset then

mmm okay we think we know what you're talking about @Hopkirk, but we're not entirely sure. only thing that peta wants to say is that if it's what we're postulating at is that he thinks unwnd has more integrity than what we think you're accusing him of. spf thinks it's such a specific/complex thought process from you that it probably is town indicative.

and this convo is now so far in the weeds that I am considering it closed.

it's not relevant to this game as it doesn't make me scumread unwnd
it might help understand part of why i was irritated with him. that + his 'lol fuck you i don't need to answer your questions' response when i asked him about it

[Hopkirk]

I assumed 1644 was a shitpost, lol

yep

If Hopkirk is secretly a jokey shitposter I'm uh

Not seeing it

I've been reading this as if I've threatened his whole being and I must pay

Like yeah I scumread you, but I'm not going to condemn your slot immediately

i think i mentioned it in a previous post: menal has played twice with me. i have jokey shitposted in every game for the last two years except

maybe

for 1 where i subbed in midgame (thus losing the early game pure shitposting time) and was more concerned with proving that a 'new player' was secretly a hectic alt (they were)... also because nobody else seemed to be doing setup spec and i had to stop people voting off multiple townreads. that was not a fun game because it felt like i was screaming into the void the whole time. menal wasn't in it though

i'm seriously confused if menal hasn't pointed out i'm a jokey shitposter because
- we've played together several times
- in one of those games we were shot by a town vig because they thought the hectic/hopkirk/flopz hydra was making too many jokey shitposts. i am 100% sure he is aware of this
- in another (ydrasse's one that just finished) multiple players in this game and that one can confirm my style
- we might have played a third time but not sure, could have just been 2 because i can't place a third. doesn't matter either way
- menal has actively responded to 2-4 threads where i've made ~1500 word jokey shitposts by quoting his response from the previous ones. he knows i'm a jokey shitposter and i don't get how he hasn't told you (... but scum menal would have told you here ugh)

-if you want to see my style check my wiki page. i made that post instead of scumhunting that day in mid game. yeah.

I think 1644 is still talking about a towntell

i don't think any of 1644 was serious?

If Hopkirk is secretly a jokey shitposter I'm uh

Not seeing it

so to be clear I think that post is satirizing your perceived disbelief at him not being able to post more often

I think he flits between serious and jokey at the drop of a hat but it's still worth calling what you see and whatever

see death curse where a lot of people thought this was scum indicative from hop and it objectively wasn't. this is personality. i throw in the memey posts in an almost worryingly compulsive manner.

[Hopkirk]

I feel like your response to me boils down to 'check with Mena on my meta, btw here's my meta and I'm very busy'

OK, that's fine. Understandable. I have a lot of time on my hands but that doesn't mean you do. That isn't what I was trying to explain. You could spend your time more efficiently or in ways that I would percieve to be townie. If you felt my argument was semantics then you could've addressed that, but instead I now know your life schedule because ????

so it's very difficult to respond to a case that doesn't get specific because i can't really respond to those with anything other than: 'no? does not reflect reality.' which is what i did. the other points i responded to amazingly

you needed to know my life schedule because it felt funny to post that tbh. i've played with someone who posted their uni timetable before to 'prove' their alignment and it was hilarious

I have stopped reading H v U.

nice

HEY, we've establishing i'll post memey stuff in the middle of serious stuff? you don't want to miss that...

hopkirk, do you have breakfast? when is dinnertime?

ffs, not you too. flopz was asking me if i'd had three meals today. just because i only had one meal on saturday. i'm concerned i've put on a little weight over the lockdown. how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?
dinnertime is usually between 5-6. it was later today because i went food shopping before dinner.
i DID have 3 meals today. Flopz asked me what they were like he didn't even trust me. if i didn't tell him then i'm not telling you.

only way hopkirk v unwnd is svs is if hopkirk really wanted to advertise his dnd campaign

yeah I think I need to hear more about the campaign to really sort him

Heavily biopunk themed and much more focused on roleplay/out of combat/exploration/mystery stuff. Setting involves a number of large artificer/wizard academies essentially ruling the continent and a related rebellion.

the party is currently investigating why there's been four recent cases of students from the local prep school for the academy murdering their (wealthy) parents then killing themselves afterwards.

theso far the party has killed a member of the faculty after kidnapping a random student (they strongly considered killing him to steal his drugs), the twin sister of one of the (dead) killers (yeah, flopz cut one of her fingers off...), and a member of the search party for the previous two that they kind of had to abduct as well. the investigation is vaguely progressing.

7pm-12pm+ on tuesday/thursday - playing mafia/social deception games/other games with friends

plays mafia for 17 hours but cant be here for all of them?

eliminate all liars

video mafia with friends. used to be in person pre covid. not mafiascum or forum mafia so this point doesn't really stand. i think i've addressed it reasonably well

[Hopkirk]

7pm-12pm+ on tuesday/thursday - playing mafia/social deception games/other games with friends

plays mafia for 17 hours but cant be here for all of them?

eliminate all liars

um he clearly said 7pm-12pm, thats 5 hours, why are you being willfully ignorant of his schedule? scumclaiming?

it should have been 12am yeah. i think dann was counting the hours i said i spent on MS playing this game (6 hours weekend, though there were more i think, and an hour in an evening. not a misrep from dann which is nice )

Need 2 more votes to end the day

serious talk, i really want to read up over the weekend. i'm not currently a fan of X and considered voting them until i realized it was L2 because i want to read up on a few slots (especially The Worst & Uncrowned)

The point of my 'case' on you was never to indict you and make you serve sentence. It was to let people know where I was at and in turn see if anyone agreed

So far, the active majority does not.

I don't believe in dragging arguments to 10 pages

over pettiness

. It seems you were upset about me ignoring your question, but to me that question is baseless. Even now, Mena says he's confused about your approach. I am too. I care not about your meta and I will never consider someone's meta as an absolute tell for their alignment. Why is that the first thing you focused on when it came to what I said about you? You didn't mention how I was wrong about you pocketing hercule or feeling like that what you said earlier mattered.

if you didn't want ridiculously petty and other the top arguments you picked the wrong person to start a toxic 1v1 with
(note - i call every 1v1 a toxic 1v1 because it's

hilarious

. i think i said that earlier in the thread)

@unwnd i made a visual guide for you:
what is hopkirk doing now?

i had to make some assumptions but i sincerely hope this clears up any confusion about hopkirk's availability so that you can resume sorting him for AI things

nice. i'll show this to flopz next time he says i don't eat breakfast enough

[Hopkirk]

ffs, not you too. flopz was asking me if i'd had three meals today. just because i only had one meal on saturday. i'm concerned i've put on a little weight over the lockdown. how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?

my opinion of flopz just skyrocketed
i hope you're doing ok & i'm sure you're fine -- the entire human race put on weight during lockdown, just make sure you're feeling ok!

thanks.
flopz is a nice guy. he's always looking out for hectic and me. neither of the Hs had eaten more than one meal that day for reference.

so it's very difficult to respond to a case that doesn't get specific because i can't really respond to those with anything other than: 'no? does not reflect reality.' which is what i did. the other points i responded to amazingly

you needed to know my life schedule because it felt funny to post that tbh. i've played with someone who posted their uni timetable before to 'prove' their alignment and it was hilarious

I mean I just think it's easy to say 'this is not a specific case' because I didn't attribute actual posts of yours

At this rate I'm not getting anywhere, you did nothing wrong and I shitpushed you but at the same time you just happened to be sprung into action because of it

I very very much doubt it, but I'm not fighting against the crowd who at this point is just taking (funny) potshots at both of us. What do you think of the current xtoxm wagon? I'm null on him

i feel like you were pushing with intent of a response about things which boil down to 'theories/vibes' then?
xtoxm is in my POE leaning towards the side of 'i have no townpings from them' which is what i like to call the scummy side of the POE. i want to get through my whole poe's isos when i can do it all in one go. i considered an xtoxm vote because it feels like their presence is essentially null and it didn't townping in any way i can remember

it's irrelevant to my read on unwnd, it's relevant to my earlier mindset before i realized it wasn't his 'whole team'. vaguely relevant to other stuff after that, but not meaningfully

then i don't really get why you are now in the present using it as a point against him

i mean i'm currently leaning town on him?
i presented it as a point against his initial stuff and i think i've gotten the tenses mized up somewhere during a later-night posting.

[Hopkirk]

video mafia with friends. used to be in person pre covid. not mafiascum or forum mafia so this point doesn't really stand. i think i've addressed it reasonably well

you have addressed your schedule commendably

I was just worried about the disease of substituting sleep for mafia that befalls so many of us keybaord warriors

this subtle hint that i should be going to sleep now is appreciated

how am i supposed to address that except skipping meals when i don't like how i look in the mirror?!?

im under the impression this doesnt actually work and will just make you miserable

damn

[Hopkirk]

i feel like you were pushing with intent of a response about things which boil down to 'theories/vibes' then?
xtoxm is in my POE leaning towards the side of 'i have no townpings from them' which is what i like to call the scummy side of the POE. i want to get through my whole poe's isos when i can do it all in one go. i considered an xtoxm vote because it feels like their presence is essentially null and it didn't townping in any way i can remember

Yeah I mean it's D1. I'm never gonna assume I have the answers. I almost responded to the 'toxic 1v1' thing and just wanted to say I hate those. I'm a bleeding heart and I almost always wanna find reasons to townread someone or just have misunderstanding, because I see too many games where scum just watch town rip each other apart lol

some of my comments were a bit much actually and i'd like to apologize. i was frustrated, and apparently being in a mindset where i'm going to do jokey anger fairly easily leads into actual annoyance.

[Hopkirk]

I know a lot of you probably think that Flopz was whispering in my ear the whole time telling me to make personal attacks. He wasn't. Not for

everything

. Ceph, i'm especially sorry to you. Unwnd too.

[Hopkirk]

so i logged on before going to bed for like 5 mins

can we not hammer anything that would make the night fall over the weekend/specifically saturday?

[Hopkirk]

xtoxm/agar/the worst/uncrowned/ABR/jackson

i skimmed some stuff at lunch but barely any

[Hopkirk]

that's the people i want to iso/sort before day ends

[Hopkirk]

as priorities that is...
dgb/titus/unwnd i had some stuff i liked

[Hopkirk]

VOTE: ABR

[Hopkirk]

hm, i'll definitely do isos on (agar/the worst/uncrowned/ABR/Mastina+their replacee) tomorrow. g'night

[Hopkirk]

Winter flakes how do you and your team currently read the game?

[Hopkirk]

It'll make sense eventually ABR don't worry. I'm just going to reference hectic and nod knowingly. That should explain my vote on you right?

[Hopkirk]

Oh I didn't put the vote down did I

VOTE: winter

[Hopkirk]

he didn't do what hectic said (like a week ago) scum-getting-wagoned-ABR would do so i'm not going to put another naked vibe down

[Hopkirk]

you mean ABR? I've been told that's town indicative for him and that doesn't counteract what i saw last time

maybe i'm just being too paranoid about pocketing with all of these votes

[Hopkirk]

i get the feeling everyone seems to SR WF but nobody's ever really tried to vote him? ABR counterwagon vibes town driven

oh uh, i haven't caught up on like idk some teen amount of pages yet

[Hopkirk]

So who's scum for you? The worst + Uncrowned + who else?

[Hopkirk]

Plus I guess the person you just called scum. decent chance you SR them imo

[Hopkirk]

Yeah but all caps ate...

[Hopkirk]

It's so hard to resist the temptation to respond to anything that doesn't make the person it's talking about clear with an angry post assuming its directed at me. I'm not doing it because it's not actually funny and apparently that sometimes stops me

Pedit - whoa, when did I become scum ABR? Was it when I ran you up to look at your reactions?

[Hopkirk]

I said the names of people I suspected and acted like they were consensus scum. It's something I do sometimes.

I'll be around properly at like 7ish

[Hopkirk]

What about it surprised you?