Micro 998 | The Binding of Isaac Mafia | Game Over

[Costello]

Oh wait Hectic's plan has Fark on bugspray N2

Oh hell naw I asssumed he had Fark on Ydrasse

[Costello]

Wait oh my god madeline is right lmao, we might be able to just shut down their access then investigate.

YEETDRASSE BACK ON THE MENU LADS

[Costello]

I'm wondering if Hectic is loud which means we never even have to put bug on him at all lol, he can just be soul until endgame

[Costello]

Loud isn't quite the right word/modifier

I just mean if he publicly announces even if targeted by nightkill, which would be kinda dumb tbh

[Costello]

goddamnit hectic

look at the icon

trust

ur wrong, yeetdrasse outright wins the game, why is she town for anything besides tonal oneliners she 100% fakes without much thought

push on flea just now was actually awful

[Costello]

we don't talk about the last time u trusted

[Costello]

the interactions with gamma were fine but not even remotely clearing imo

[Costello]

that is what i want yes

[Costello]

regardless i think burning ydrasse/fark wins it but FINE just for you i'll revisit in a bit when i'm not playing ffxiii

[Costello]

can u not read roman numerals LMAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO

[Costello]

sorry i'll be sure to whip out the million different plumber simulators next time, can't wait for your mario is missing let's play

[Costello]

i am still playing ffxiii sorry i am very burnt out on rereading games atm

farkran softed by saying hectic had no friends/was alone, put that together with already knowing PTs exist due to raven mech, not too hard to put 2 and 2 together

[Costello]

i think nobody fakeclaimed with the possible exception of Costello but once again that's just heavy paranoia

I'm sorry but what lmao

I could absolutely be mafia but how on earth am I the one who might be mechanically fakeclaiming lmfao

Confirmed to be Eve by PoE/public rolenames, the vote was redirected to someone else yesterday, confirmed due to my role via Ydrasse investigation of catboi, multiple softs of dead bird/Raven, me/catboi actively communicating with lyrics all day, was the Raven, and me unilaterally redirecting without the in-between would in fact be ridiculously busted

[Costello]

Like I guess if you're saying I'm fakeclaiming the part about me/catboi having a PT? Then maybe? I can go back and cite specific instances of coding, though, that are....very clear and conclusive when given context

[Costello]

...Then again I have fakeclaimed two different mechanics on Day 1

Maybe Farkran has a point LMAO

The Raven was secretly Hectic (it was not)

[Costello]

The way Flea’s reacted to Ydrasse’s push looks like town based on how fae pushed back against her two-faced advance
Ydrasse I think has genuine paranoia but could also be genuine-sounding scum, so I want her opinions on other slots since I doubt she can fake those other reads as well if scum

It looks like Ydrasse is trying to say two things at once there (you have and have not been cautious)
Ydrasse, your response? This is the second thing I’ve noticed of this type from you

It looks like Ydrasse is trying to say two things at once there (you have and have not been cautious)
Ydrasse, your response? This is the second thing I’ve noticed of this type from you

what? i’m saying i don’t think she’s done anything especially cautious that’s worth pointing out so far wrt the early wagon as i thought that’s what hectic was basing off of

what second thing have you noticed and have you pointed it out before someone prodded you on me?

But like
Hectic said she wasn’t being cautious
It looks like you ended up agreeing with him as such

And you’ve had confusing takes on Flea (which looks paranoia-driven) and madeline (which seems like you started disagreeing with hectic on some level but reached the exact conclusion he did)

Maybe I'm not giving Gamma enough credit but I think scum!Gamma lacks this kind of nuance when giving reads on partners. Critiquing your partners is not particularly difficult. It's mostly this interaction I have her as town for tbh

You are absolutely not giving scum Gamma enough credit but I'm lazy and really don't want to go digging to prove it but I will at some point.

I'd encourage you to review the spat with Ydrasse and Flea's latest mechanical solving. I really do not think fae are mafia. In contrast, I think Ydrasse really was not out to fairly evaluate the slot. Whether because she's mafia or because she's frustrated, who knows? Similarly, I think Farkran's thought processes are both clear and natural in a way that I suspect he does not have down pat as scum. I'm not 100% sold-only like 80%-but this game would be a step up for sure.

[Costello]

Gamma scum interaction samples:

Ctrl+F for bugspray/Momrangal, several good posts here
Ctrl+F for Italiano

[Costello]

Ctrl+F for Albert

And oh god looking through these games Gamma has some really fucking horrendous habits as mafia that are outright gamelosing but I'll save those for next time.

[Costello]

Actually I'm not going to be a dick, I'll toss him a bone.

If you've ever seen scum Gamma out a 3/4 person solve, last calendar year says to just policyvote the entire pool for at least 2 mafia if not all 3.

[Costello]

yeetdrasse, what have you been thinking about Flea's posts lately?

[Costello]

i'd be demotivated too if i were relying on me/hectic to win a game tbh

[Costello]

I read that first paragraph and I have already seen all I need to, take her away, I can't stand to watch anymore

Kidding, I'll keep going, but oh no my poor child, this Does Not Pass At All

[Costello]

To be clear, the bit about relying on me/Hectic was a joking selfroast, not a serious suggestion that we are The Gods Of The Game

[Costello]

I'll type up a more thorough response in a bit when I have time just out of appreciation for the effort that took, me being lighthearted probably doesn't help when you're clearly demotivated already.

[Costello]

I'm actually kind of mafia'd out for the day so it'll hold off until probably tomorrow depending on how I'm feeling, but I'll do you a solid and promise to meta Flea and read the same games you're describing, potentially at the risk of my sanity.

What other things do you think I should be looking at/what could I potentially do to help you or myself out?

[Costello]

Genuinely sorry about 844 by the way-it did describe how I feel/felt but having read the full post now I 100% would not make that in hindsight

[Costello]

Essentially, I find everyone but you hardtown in ways that I think are out of their range.

Spoiler: Specifically for each player

madeline's weird progression around me, some of the interactions with Gamma. Flea's reaction to you pushing them, fae's treatment of madeline, and Flea's mechanical solution. Farkran's progression/interactions with Gamma are pretty bad but his reads Day 1 were quite natural and organic in a way that I think he really struggles to fake as scum. The saving grace for Farkscum here would be that early on, with the game wide open, it's a bit easier for him to just work forwards/react to things organically inthread, and here we're very much limited to the early game. bugspray is a lot more of a crapshoot but I townlean them based off the bodyguard claim/them clearly having not read catboi at all. Hectic's progression around Gamma was quite good imo-at times defending him but at others very aggressive, and

correctly

aggressive in reaction to bad Gamma posts.

In contrast, I think the reasons for you being town are mostly based off tonal oneliners that are trivial to fake, and the interaction with Gamma was far from clearing even if you look decent from it. Instinctively, I also think the engagement with Flea was in bad faith, but I'd need more meta on you to really get to the bottom of that.

[Costello]

Just to be clear: The above is just what I'm currently thinking/based off what I've seen from this game: I'll revisit Flea's meta and compare it to this game for you when I can.

[Costello]

When I said "instinctively seems in bad faith" I meant more that I found fae's reaction very natural and town-indicative, but that you willfully chose not to see that. And yeah, if you're town that's just not the case, and hopefully by getting a better background on Flea I can see that.

I don't think your points were outright wrong/bad, but that's only half the story if that makes sense.

I definitely feel confident, and perhaps wrongly so, but I have read the entire game through 6x and will do so at least twice more, and easily another 5+ if it goes past today. Arguably that's worse if I'm wrong on you given how much time I've sank, but rest assured I will go over every inch of every post you want me to look at-and then some.

[Costello]

Flea is 100% confirmable and we should never be voting fae today.

madeline has seein fae's rolecard and knows there is no ascetic/roleblocker, confirm shutting down neighborhood=0 PT access and suddenly the slot is completely mechanically clearable.

[Costello]

Way to do this btw isn't to directly ask Chara about the PT cops or anything but to have both madeline/Flea just ask a simple "Do I currently have access to any PTs?" after neighborhood closure

[Costello]

Aren't all slots 100% confirmable then?

Not to the same extent Flea is, because of the possible existence of an ascetic modifier.

Flea has a 0% chance of being ascetic via madeline's role confirmation

[Costello]

back to the drawing board for who u wanna yeet bb

[Costello]

Mechanically I don't think it makes sense to vote anyone except Ydrasse/madeline, and I think my preference there is clear but I do have work to do

[Costello]

I think it's unlikely anyone's gonna be ascetic on top of an additional confirmable role ability, but I see your point

We have yet to see an ability that coincides with the ambiguity of "No Result" for Farkran's PT investigation; the setup doesn't require there to be one but it remains unaccounted for.

[Costello]

Way to do this btw isn't to directly ask Chara about the PT cops or anything but to have both madeline/Flea just ask a simple "Do I currently have access to any PTs?" after neighborhood closure

uh, I don't think the mod would respond to us in thread for that. We would need to be investigated to confirm.

It wouldn't be inthread, the idea is you both privately ask to verify that Farkran's result will be accurate. Because there's only one scum, you will receive and publicly give the same answer. When Farkran investigates, you will be mechanically cleared.

[Costello]

If "Do I have access to a PT?" is unanswerable via PM to a moderator they have some serious introspection to do.

[Costello]

for the mods i'm not saying you should go to tiny url, no space, with a .com and a /4charaisis on the end because direct links trip the site's spam filter but i would consider it

[Costello]

I would think through what happens when one of you lies while the other tells the truth, given that we have 3 elims to use.

[Costello]

Arguably, it is, but you're going to have to explain a bit more than "this is the winning play" to get the team on the same page to carry it through with you.

[Costello]

basically hectic has focused mostly on mech play which due to the setup will not give us any information about the actual game
scum would love to have everyone claim so thathtye can plan out night actions and hectic has been one of the strongest proponents of it

Hmmmm, maybe, but I think the Flea nuance was a bit hard to spot; it took me a day or two.

I think the fact he didn't want to take me up on Ydrasse, who before this was the best chance at an "investigation clear" points the other way.

What did you think about how he acted around her?

[Costello]

I appreciated you chipping in in any case, but I would challenge that you can go further.

[Costello]

I'll try to get to the reading I promised Ydrasse in a few hours, today might be the last day of undivided attention I can give this gameday. Hectic, I'm curious as to what you're thinking now that we have the fullclear on Flea on the table.

Before rereading, I wouldn't really be surprised if Ydrasse was town. If both Ydrasse/Farkran were, though, I would be

completely shocked

[Costello]

UNVOTE:

[Costello]

i might submit ydrasse's 840 to a publisher tbh, not sure it's the same level of literary achievement but i'm pretty sure it's longer than hemingway's "old man and the sea"

[Costello]

The

times

tides, they are a-changing

[Costello]

Being honest I've been skimming through several games from both Ydrasse/Flea and definitely see Flea as mafia now, but I am maybe like 20% through what I want

Whatchu thinking madeline

[Costello]

madeline really taking this whole mimicry thing seriously, damn

[Costello]

damn

there's like, big holes in the mechanical plans, right

Yes, there is nothing foolproof mechanically here EXCEPT a Flea night investigation.

Functionally, we get 3 elims+a non-Farkran night investigation of our choice. How long bugspray will be alive is very unclear.

[Costello]

(And even a Flea night investigation being foolproof still requires Chara to answer the question "Do I currently have access to a PT?", and in the negative, for you/Flea)

[Costello]

and if flea dies the night fae is investigated?

That is okay and still functionally serves its purpose. The nightkill in this case is functionally a town-driven elim.

I would even say this is expected if we choose to investigate Flea as I am not 100% mechanically clear, and neither is Hectic.

[Costello]

To more directly answer your question regarding holes: Unless Farkran is both town and gets a guilty overnight, we should not expect a mechanical solution to the game.

There are many mechanical possibilities but only two are unambiguous: A hypothetical Day 3 Farkran guilty (He can't 1v1 w/ a miselim) or Flea mechanical clear.

There are interesting side questions like "Will bugspray die N4 or N5? What does Hectic's Body do?"

[Costello]

if hectic or costello are mafia, town loses
if farkran or bugspray are mafia, flip a coin for who wins
hope ydrasse or flea are mafia, to avoid the other options

and this is a plan people are like, 'yeah this is good' about

Can you suggest an alternative? It's not that we think this plan is foolproof: It's absolutely not, and this is why I've put a heavier emphasis on qualitative play.

We have 3 guesses for the mafia in 7 players. With 0 mech info, this nets us a 77.2% chance of winning the game w/ random selections.

The plan here actually nets 4 guesses by maximizing how we utilize Farkran's claimed power.

[Costello]

mine

stupid seagull at it again

[Costello]

IDK what I'm smoking but I miscalculated, our chance of winning with no mechanical info is 55%.

Under our current plan (Policyvote Farkran in 3 way after Flea investigation N2) I'm pretty sure it's 61%.

Both of these assume Fark/Flea each have a 1/7 chance of being scum.

So honestly pretty negligible.

[Costello]

Man this is still wrong and is what I get for not working it out on paper but I'm lazy

[Costello]

I mean, technically you have the flexibility to vote us out either today or tomorrow, but functionally they're equivalent, you're right.

I'm going to stop EV punching until I get off work and use real scratch paper because spitballing into Google Calculator without tracking what I'm doing does not work well.

[Costello]

And also while I have gotten sidetracked in the hypothetical........I've been focusing on qualitative work for a reason, we should expect no mechanical solution with what is on the table.

[Costello]

The issue with 937 is scum don't target Fark/bugspray N2. The only scum player who does this is you (Flea) to try and avoid mech autoloss, anyone else shoots me/Hectic/Flea.

[Costello]

if we make these assumptions and tell the mafia the plan...
how is it ever going to work out this way

I mean there is an issue with it, as described above, but letting scum know the mechanical plan negates nothing.

[Costello]

Doesnt matter.

Mafia either holsters and gives Farkran more time, if bugspray doesn't protect its pretty much a scumclaim. If Farkran sees ELO he should be in there with players hes cleared.

I would encourage you to work this out on paper and see the result of "giving Farkran more time", assuming that you policyvote him in Elo.

[Costello]

There are extremely glaring issues with this but I'm kind of tired of running mechanical circles at the moment.

[Costello]

We do not reveal if the PT is open or closed.

That would confirm Farkran for sure.

???????????????????????????

He is literally a PT cop regardless of alignment, this is throwing away an investigation for no reason

[Costello]

Can you be more clear as to exactly what your current plan of action is?

Just the 3 eliminations in order and the Farkran investigation N2 suffices to describe it. Please note that in no world will Farkran investigate someone with a non-scum PT open.

[Costello]

VOTE: Costello

[Costello]

Yes, utilizing the investigation on me, who will flip yes regardless of my alignment, over another player who will grant real mechanical information, would be monumentally stupid.

[Costello]

Voting me is stupid from a qualitative perspective.

Investigating me is monumentally stupid from both a qualitative perspective and a mechanical perspective.

[Costello]

interesting timing of those claims, if anyone would like to look,

Are you suggesting I did not have a PT with catboi?

Whether I'm scum with the PT or town with the PT doesn't make a difference for what the mechanical decision should be.

[Costello]

so i wonder if costello is actually scum and the partner knew and helped creat the wagon

does not feel like a real thought

Why not? I actually thought the same after hectic's 42

I explained in my followup but feels less like a townie thought process and more like someone outing a wildly implausible thought to seem like they are going crazy with speculation

(also I would expect a scum venge to have ended the day immediately)

If you want good news, I would have hammered as VT claiming I thought madeline's hammer was real out of pure spite from how much I hate that stupid shit

At least we got something back instead

Oh, I can't take another heartache. Though you say you're my friend, I'm at my wit's end. You say your love is bonafide, but that don't coincide with the things that you do.

You are dumb to townread me

And you can't read but I put up with you anyway

Why bother? It's gonna hurt me.

"And you're dumb and can't read" is telling him to read the PT because I want to reveal I won't actually be flipping. I ask catboi to post Costello lyrics if I can claim, any other lyrics for no. He posts Weezer: He doesn't want me to claim. He gets cheeky with the lyrics to suggest it's not in his interest.

I go back to the PT and explain that I'm not outing him, just claiming redirector and that I'm hoping it'll spur activity, specifically out of madeleine. I tell him to post more Weezer lyrics to trigger the redirector claim

It seems the world has turned and left me here...

Game dies down, after awhile catboi randomly posts more lyrics alluding to the dead game.

I immediately claim redirector hoping to spur activity.

Well if you need some entertainment/company catboi, we might as well make for a fun reveal.

I am not vengeful, and I will not be flipping today at all.

I am a one-shot elimination redirector.

Nobody really reacts to it, catboi immediately makes fun of me.

Lol at how costello's big reveal got hardly any reaction from anyone

[Costello]

Didn't wind up using the first two quotes but forgot to cut them.

First the mention of the scumvenge ending the day was actually signaling to me that he's not scum instashooting because I asked him to if he was scum for the lulz.

Second just wasn't the right quote, that one was just him shitposting iirc

[Costello]

cat FWIW I appreciate you doing your best to help me out by driving content, even if you are doing it just in the hopes that I don't shoot you.

He's a battered old bird
And he's living up there
There's a place where time stands still

You're definitely a battered old bird who's had to put up with my shit all day, and the game has definitely stood still at times, so I appreciate you not just tearing into me for being a moron all day.

Specifically told him not to shoot until I gave a more explicit soft of the Raven mechanic unless he needed it, this is softing the dead bird/Raven mechanic which should be definitive given that the Eve rolename flip.

Next two posts are him responding to questions specifically for him that are on the face of it open to everyone

Yep, thanks for reminding me, trying to milk it for all I can atm.

I've preferred seeing the Flea, Ydrasse, and Hectic converations without me in the center but if anyone has any questions for me now might be a good time to ask.

Why is Jadakiss as hard as it gets?



(can't think of anything else)

I'll be back later and still encourage everyone to discuss among yourselves without me, but it might also be interesting to just explicitly say who you think I should shoot.

and explain why, ideally

I wish I had a good answer for you on that, but...I don't really.

I'm going to trust your judgment.

I would move Ydrasse up toward the town side in your list, though.

Also finally how the fuck am I directing the shot without the PT? I publicly am pretty anti-Gamma but somewhere I have to actually respond to 333 to tell him what shot to take.

[Costello]

Like I can still be mafia but like, jesus fucking christ, the mechanical suggestions rn are horrific and I want Hectic back

[Costello]

Actually 73 is him mad I'm being antitown, together with him posting Grandmaster Flash suggesting I'm pushing him "close to the edge" lmfao but FUCK 'EM

[Costello]

Anyway, at the risk of being performative, by all means please vote me today so I can get out of here and you can vote something else dumb next.

[Costello]

Dumbest part of this btw was cat lost viewing access but the PT is still open/I can post in it

gently takes

give my cat the goddamn pt back what if he needs the mixtape

If he was going to cheat and post in it or something he could have done that the entire time he had access.

[Costello]

IDK, new mechanical gameplan, we vote me today, Farkran goes on madeline/Flea while their PT is open just to confirm it works. We roll a die to decide the vote Day 3, and then we vote whoever Farkran gets "No Result" on Day 4 just in case they are ascetic.

[Costello]

I have an amazing idea for exactly how I should troll catboi. First, I give him unilateral choice of the Day 1 vote even though he has a top 5 towngame on site. Next, he's going to defer to me because he's stupid. When he does that is when I hit him with the juicer: I have him shoot my partner, and then immediately kill him N2. I got him, get owned catboi.

[Costello]

or we could vote for costello today, thank not chara for moderating, and continue to check the thread every once in a while to see if isis posts postmortem thoughts on the design

I am unironically down, I am 100% serious, the alternative in my mind is now just straight up policyvoting you.

[Costello]

I am unironically down, I am 100% serious, the alternative in my mind is now just straight up policyvoting you.

because i think it's strange that your pt would still be open?

Would your PT close if one of you/Flea got shot?

Does the scum PT close if their partner gets voted out?

Absolutely vote me, this is stellar townplay.

[Costello]

I am about to get extremely, extremely fucking nasty so I'm going to step back before I make comments that suggest we concede the game as town rather than play another moment of this.

[Costello]

our pt wasn't a one-sided use for decide a shot

damn, well when you combine this speculative mechanic that works either way with my shooting scum, extensive meta, and repeated reevaluations of the game, it all starts to make sense

[Costello]

i’m also leery of the neighborhood bc i feel like we’ve only gotten vague impressions of the vibes/dynamic but not whats said in them/what was spoken about?

if either of you two have posted it already i’d like to be directed to it pls

? what is your fear with this

[Costello]

UNVOTE:

madeline has me legitimately wanting to concede the game to get out of this but I'm going to restrain myself and just go back to focusing on Ydrasse/Flea

Be warned that there is a nonzero chance I (nonprovably!) random.org my votes and AFK for however many days I'm alive if I really hit my limit.

[Costello]

Rule #2 is a thing, I will be a good little mafia player and not make even the slightest further suggestion or gesture that I am very much at the limit of my patience again this game, and instead I will 100% try my hardest and enjoy doing so!

[Costello]

Nope, sorry, pulled up tabs, can't do it. Wasted all of my time and energy on mechanics/wanting to lose.

Maybe I'll have more energy later tonight but this was one last chance to reread the game and I blew it, here you go Hectic do whatever the hell you want today.

[Costello]

i

[Costello]

this game was a mistake

chara

i will continue to play the win in the meantime but what exactly is required for a town concession

[Costello]

I am just so absolutely tilted out of my mind from the last 3/4 pages that I don't know how my psyche is ever going to recover

[Costello]

chara

i will continue to play to win in the meantime but what exactly is required for a town concession

[Costello]

Mine is unironically submitted but I will play on.

[Costello]

Flea needs to close the PT for madeline and then I'm hammering that btw, my impression yesterday was that you were right. I think putting Fark on Ydrasse tonight works well and think that it's in those 3 even if that's wrong

DO NOT HAMMER UNTIL FLEA CLOSES THE PT

[Costello]

Like I got distracted and never finished but meta I could see the point on both Ydrasse town/Flea scum even if it's not necessarily correct, and while I found the unvote by Flea natural I thought the stuff that came after w/ the renewed confidence but no revote until later was sketchy.

[Costello]

also the attempts to avoid the Fark N2 investigation w/ the closure were lol

[Costello]

like the checklist before voting flea is:

1) close pt
2) have flea ask chara privately "Do I have access to any PTs?", confirm answer is no

imo leaving the vote up is fine in case they just want to skip doing that and concede but yes it risks a yolospray

[Costello]

IDK man, it was a combination of that post, the vote on you by bug, the suggestion I might make a good N2 investigation, and finally the vote/asking about traffic analyst when fark has claimed his mechanics like 4x drove me off the deep end

I do feel better today so I'll try to finish up what I want to read

[Costello]

hectic do you think the above is legitimate lol

[Costello]

it's less important that both confirm that it's closed given flea will flip (and single confirmation will suffice as fae is town)

and a lot more important that

flea confirms with chara that fae officially has no PT access after closure

, ie. that the neighborhood indeed will no longer count

[Costello]

there have been some comments that implied people were worried about 3p scumteams, it's not in the main post b/c chara is dummy but it's mod-confirmed 2:7 via the game's signup advertisement btw

[Costello]

Uhhhh I would be very careful describing the subject/body of your PM to the mod, functionally it really doesn't make a difference w/ your PM to them (as compared to quoting the mod's reply) but in general you want to stick to paraphrasing

[Costello]

Apparently I am in a neighbourhood. I just cant access it.

this is so nonsensically inconsistent from a mechanical standpoint, and i don't even think fae is lying about it

??????????????????? WHY INCLUDE MECHANICS IN YOUR GAME IF YOU DO NOT WANT PLAYERS UTILIZING IT FOR INFORMATION ISIS PLEASE STOP

[Costello]

nooooooooooooooooo u weren't supposed to use it that way haha XD

[Costello]

hit em with the ol' schrodinger's neighborhood on the fly that'll stop any ideas of utilizing roles intelligently

[Costello]

okay, sure, you don't want people actually utilizing their roles or mechanics in interesting ways, whatever, that's fine i guess, i hear you loud and clear, i'll grab a fucking coffee and solve this the good old fucking fashioned way so we can end the game and you won't have to worry about it anymore

[Costello]

this is some of the saltiest i have ever been at a mafia game

[Costello]

madeline, let's talk.

As far as I can remember, you have yet to engage with my actual qualitative content for the entire gameday. As far as I can tell, this is driven entirely by mechanical paranoia around me claiming to have a PT. If this has anything to do with how I've played the game or the reads/reactions I've given, it is news to me.

Where/how have you approached reading me for alignment, and why should I not believe this is a terrible gimmick that I should policyvote you for?

[Costello]

Great! Time to explain why, before I policyvote you and we both lose!

[Costello]

VOTE: madeline

I absolutely think you are town playing absolutely horrifically, you are right!

[Costello]

Fortunately, explaining qualitatively how my play has factore into your read on me does not require you to play well!

It is time to sell me that you are actually playing this horrifically, and that I should not assume you are in, fact, even remotely competent out of courtesy!

[Costello]

Then my vote will not be moving at any point in the game, peace.

[Costello]

If you have no interest in selling the other players in my alignment, why should I at all give you the benefit of the doubt that your thought process is anything more than a shitty gimmick?

[Costello]

And in the process prove it to others and possibly get your scumread voted.

Stop dodging, I'm mafia so put together the puzzle publicly.

[Costello]

Excellent start! I am alive after shooting the mafia, I conveniently still have access to a private topic, and I would like other players to be voted over me.

How about my reads, such as my positioning on yourself or on Ydrasse/Flea? Alternatively why Flea, Ydrasse, Fark, etc. are town over me!

[Costello]

Correct, scum me does try to get other players voted!

This does not mean my reads and play all game are null!

How are you evaluating the game and the other players from anything besides the mechanical guess of 1067?

[Costello]

You have given extremely, extremely little beyond immediate answers/reactions of you being broadly wary, that in total leave your overall feelings outside of me ambiguous.

The most substantial post is 596.

[Costello]

The issue here is there's little reason to categorically refuse to give a brief summary, or engage in even remotely good faith the last 10 minutes, for any reason other than spite.

In contrast, while I am absolutely voting you out of spite and am currently voting to concede because I'd rather lose than carry you to a town win, you have every incentive to play the paranoid moron who never outs any other reads of substance as scum.

[Costello]

The issue here is there's little reason to categorically refuse to give a brief summary, or engage in even remotely good faith the last 10 minutes, for any reason other than spite.

In contrast, while I am absolutely voting you out of spite and am currently voting to concede because I'd rather lose than carry you to a town win, you have every incentive to play the paranoid moron who never outs any other reads of substance as scum.

if someone else were interested, do you think the situation would be the same? like had hectic or ydrasse or farkran or flea or bugspray asked?

I would fucking hope so, jesus christ

[Costello]

Hope that it was different*

[Costello]

I have been more than happy to this point to assume the worst in you, and would be extremely happy to leave questioning you to others!

If only anyone actually bothered to call you on garbage, but they don't. They do like I have and have left you to sit. And so the task falls back to me.

And while I'd like to just concede the game immediately and get out, there is fortunately one more option: If we vote right, I'm only stuck in here for 4 more irl days!

So here I am! Step 1!

[Costello]

like you get upset with me, keep saying i'm terrible, decide that i need to prove to you specifically i am town once again,

and i am supposed to just assume you are town?

because you say things like 'i am constantly reevaluating' which simply means that as mafia you would know to do things like 'farkran is definitely mafia' ope 'farkran is town now!'

This is my intent if I am scum

Spoiler: This is not at all my intent if I am town.

[Costello]

Also Farkran has literally never left my PoE lol, he's never dropped below #2.

[Costello]

You have to do work to prove that I am mafia and convince other people to vote me.

If you don't want to dialogue with me you don't have to, but let me be clear: Me forcing this conversation is doing your job for you.

[Costello]

The line about Farkran is great, but is there more? And why do I have to pull teeth to get something you should be laying out to other players?

[Costello]

because you say things like 'i am constantly reevaluating' which simply means that as mafia you would know to do things like 'farkran is definitely mafia' ope 'farkran is town now!'

Can you be a bit more specific as to why I need to make this switch?

[Costello]

I'm satisfied for now.

UNVOTE:

Onto Ydrasse.

Unclear what the distinction is between "believable read" and my actual read on Farkran is, also that plan doesn't actually work because it nets town a free clear. The better angle here is that I'm expected to play optimally as town, ie. get the overnight clear, and am forced to swap for that reason.

[Costello]

The town in that, without even needing to reread, is bugspray and it's not even close.

It is not enough for me, as a player and a human being, to merely be correct, and it is not enough to win the game even if it were.

[Costello]

Does the game end if I, individually, am correct?

[Costello]

If you felt my swap from Farkran was opportunistic/scum motivated-is there a reason you didn't press it or ask for elaboration earlier?

Looking at Gacha Mafia you are a lot more direct about asking players about progressions.

[Costello]

Special shoutout to Isis for never updating Page 1 or keeping track of replacements/flips, thanks

[Costello]

Special shoutout to Isis for never updating Page 1 or keeping track of replacements/flips, thanks

I mean this is my fault for not skipping ahead before asking, to be clear, but I didn't really expect the answer to be akin to "I don't ask about that stuff as town" even though "I was scum" is the answer you settled for and not the full story

[Costello]

flipping the alignments while metaing

this sure brings me back hectic

[Costello]

Hectic I just realized something

I deserve this

This is karma, the parallels here are incredible, I did this same shit to you even if there are some differences

Holy fuck I am sorry and I repent for my sins

[Costello]

bugspray

He's not a traffic analyst, he has explained how his role works like 6x, you are the only player who keeps going back to traffic analyst, please stop.

We literally had an elimination redirector/kingmaker mechanic Day 1 no the game is not normal.

[Costello]

VOTE: Flea

I think it's probably Farkran but w/e give him the check on Ydrasse, those 3 have the scum imo. Ideal world I reread and we end today but I am definitely overgamed, this isn't worth playing, and a decent chance this accomplishes that anyway.

[Costello]

For bugspray, the wording for Farkran is "part of a PT", rather than "can communicate" (traffic analyst) or "has access to PT" (PT cop).

Isis/Chara decided to pull out Schrodinger's neighborhood where a PT they no longer have access to still counts as part of a PT for Farkran's role.

All that matters is that you and Ydrasse are the only potentially useful investigations, and he has voiced a desire to go on Ydrasse tonight.

[Costello]

your inconsistencies are showing, you know that, right?

Plus you MASSIVELY overreacted to Madelines vote.

If you're looking for a response it's "OK, sure"

[Costello]

Like me wanting the other town players to lose the game does not make me a good person. Not translating that into actually gamethrowing is a very low bar to set for standards of behavior.

That said, does town deserve to lose this game? Absolutely. Even without the second scum Gamma alone played better than half the town.

[Costello]

@madeline and flea, what is the theory for Costello being scum?

I mean i read you saying that all the things happened are very convenient for him (access to PT, catboi dead, etc) but could you tell me the actual chances that scum get instavoted d1 into a redirect on his partner, without any knowledge of other PRs around (could have been a cop for all we know), hoping to survive 3 more miselims while at the same time explaining how he isn't nked until end of game?

As i said, this is worth losing the game to, costello is immediately awarded the title of best scum to have ever existed

Ding ding ding, I know I have to survive 3 miselims while justifying staying alive and dodging mechanical autoloss the entire time.

I'm a strong scum, I haven't lost in over 4 years, but this comes from my philosophy of curbing any sort of risk whatsoever and playing the game like I'm an insurance adjuster, not from yoloshooting my partner Day 1 and being like "haha town will never see this coming i'm so smart XD", because that's ridiculously fucking stupid

[Costello]

and the way costello has set up the gameplan going forward allows for non-costello {bugspray, hectic, farkran} nightkills to be easily explained

The fact that the gameplan has allowed for mechanical clears that are justifiable shots over me does not mean that I set the game up to be that way, the mechanical setup of the game is the one that compelled this. I did not give bugspray bodyguard and I did not give Farkran PT cop or have him select Hectic overnight.

Please suggest a gameplan that makes sense for Costello-town that does not incorporate these mechanical solutions/clears.

[Costello]

costello, would you put on this much ate as scum? obvi you’re going to tell me yes if you’re scum but like... ya know, have to ask.

AtE as a concept? Absolutely

Situationally? It waits strategically for the game to get higher pressure: You want to ramp up as the game goes on due to recency bias, rather than pull out all the stops Day 2 and have nothing new to offer on Day 4.

I had nothing to win from my discussion with madeline as scum.

[Costello]

It's less that it's hard to sustain, the issue is that it becomes less effective the more you see it.

[Costello]

I really want to selfvote and just say "If you dumb motherfuckers insist" but I'll let Hectic just hammer Flea. I'll consider selfvoting Day 2 but today it is stupid.

[Costello]

Day 3*

[Costello]

At the risk of being performative, this is taking all of my selfrestraint.

[Costello]

Ydrasse I'm just saying if you do it it's not gamethrowing.

[Costello]

It's you helping town gain valuable, valuable information and getting rid of a player with a negative attitude in the process!

[Costello]

we shoudl just treate this as fucking mountainous because there's very few situations where ngiht actions will benefit scum mroe than town

Congratulations! You are now where every other player has been for the majority of the day!

Perhaps, with this new revelation that you should qualitatively solve in mind, you should try reading the game, thinking deeply, and openly discussing your reads!

[Costello]

Alternatively, it is my solely my fault you have done nothing but ask Farkran "Are you traffic analyst?" for 5 irl days, and with me removed you will finally be able to overcome this immense obstacle.

[Costello]

To be clear: I am not playing well if I am mafia. That does not strictly mean that I am town.

If you ever powerbus Day 1 in a closed 2:7 setup, you are not playing the game well, you are doing the equivalent of buying a $5 scratchoff lottery ticket and saying "I'm so smart for buying this!" when you win $8 back. If you are looking at this and saying "I should try this next time I am scum!" please do not do so.

[Costello]

and the way costello has set up the gameplan going forward allows for non-costello {bugspray, hectic, farkran} nightkills to be easily explained

The fact that the gameplan has allowed for mechanical clears that are justifiable shots over me does not mean that I set the game up to be that way, the mechanical setup of the game is the one that compelled this. I did not give bugspray bodyguard and I did not give Farkran PT cop or have him select Hectic overnight.

Please suggest a gameplan that makes sense for Costello-town that does not incorporate these mechanical solutions/clears.

Still very interested in what specifically the difference is between "Costello-scum who happens to have roles/night actions distributed favorably" and "Costello-town who sees role/night action distribution and tells the PT cop to investigate someone useful" is

Maybe my second scum power was making Farkran a PT cop, third one a mind control device to put him on Hectic, fourth to designate bugspray as a bodyguard, unclear.

[Costello]

Spoiler: Costello reacting that poorly to godawful town play and hoping town loses in previous games

I don't know what you're trying to say.

If me not fighting it is scummy that's fine but acting like i've been fighting it is ???

The quote is me outright saying 48 hours ago that I wasn't going to argue to save Elements. I've literally refused to play the game for like 5 days now

I took it as "where's your [Prism's] townie hustle]" since it came in reaction to me.

I'm saying my apathy is not sudden at all.

Actually, my patience is gone.

VOTE: bork

Good riddance.

Absolutely delusional.

I'm done here. I want him gone. I'm not playing this day out further.

lmfao

VOTE: Prism

Sure Vax.

I'm leaving that [selfvote] until DGB is at L-1. I mean it. I'm tired of Pooky/notscience/ffery doing absolutely nothing for days on end.

this is comical

you've now convinced me I want the bad guys to win

congrats

I was at that point Day 2.

I'm officially flipping my own alignment to red just because Vax makes me angry

Welcome Pooky. This is now the town-scum alliance, or maybe the town-town-scum alliance if ffery is last.

I am extremely pleased with the outcome [town loss], and this was, by far, the least enjoyable game of mafia I have played in 10 1/2 years.

Spoiler: Costello advocating against nonsensical bussing over the course of literally years

[quote="Prism in "The Mod Is Mafia"]Eventually someone will figure out that I basically just treat my scum games like I'm running a hedge fund whereas in my town games I actually go all out and have as much fun as I can[/quote]

I would strongly advise against bussing here. I was kind of forced into it by my prior shit play and am really looking to go on the Erika replacement when they come in.

We heavily, HEAVILY want to make it out of this day with all 3 up.

To the scum team, you're welcome. I really didn't want to bus (maybe once with D3f) but after that we just got forced down to 3 way. Not that D3f and Assemble tried to lose or anything, but especially grateful to Neal, who tried really hard but it just wasn't happening.

I'm not suited to go deep in this table-I will be too town to live through NKs if I bus and expectations of me so far are too high to survive multiple miselims.

Nope, in general I heavily oppose bussing and think it's the biggest way scumteams throw games. I linked The Thaw as an example of the aggressive-but-not-actually-bussing I do at times. I think there are ways to paint this game as fitting that scum style, even though by virtue of not actually being scum any single picture would not encapsulate my full play.

[Costello]

Unclear what you mean. I have never lost a game due to luck/forces outside of my own control and this one would not be an exception. My desire to concede, and my impatience with/disdain for the table, are my own responsibility. They are not at all due to misfortune, bad luck, or the "wrong" players being town or playing poorly.

[Costello]

if you're town why would scum shoot catboi instead?

You're a protective role in a closed game, you figure it out.

[Costello]

In case you need a reminder of your rolecard

Other possibilities that may exist in a closed setup include this, this, or this, all of which are extremely common roles in games.

2nd role is an instant scumloss for me btw, town gets 7 eliminations to use among 9 players.

[Costello]

Sorry, 6 eliminations in 8 players, much better odds.

[Costello]

Bonus Costello quotes on playing scum in postgames/towngames

As scum, I often have a dilemma in that I really don't take much pride or joy in bringing out the worst in others, but consider it the easiest way to win.

I don't think in terms of trying to get people to townread me or avoiding a lynch except as a means to an end; I just think of the number of mislynches we need and how to get there. I think this is different than most people who have delusions of grandeur, thinking that the best scumplayers are the ones with the EPIC THREE WAY HARDCARRY.

There are literally dozens of these scattered around the site.

[Costello]

I'm not so much offended by the idea that I chose to bus, I can play badly or strategically play badly for WIFOM

I'm horrified that players think that would be good/strong play, your comment that it would be "best scum alive" included, because it is absolutely horrific and fundamentally does not understand the scum alignment.

[Costello]

The problem is that you have full agency in your metaphor whereas powerbussing day 1 in closed 7:2 tanks your win rate so heavily, and in a way that removes most of your agency, that any qualitative play you make afterwards is completely irredeemable, but this isn't really helping anything at this point.

[Costello]

My main changed nothing for you?

[Costello]

I'm still inclined to think scum is in Flea/Ydrasse/Farkran so I'm optimistic this will be over Day 3.

If madeline/bugspray are scum playing the deadweight card that's a valid strategy and I'm fine losing to that but both have successfully convinced me, madeline slightly less but still satisfied atm.

[Costello]

It's mostly your interactions with Gamma, your individual play Day 1 was quite strong but as mentioned the openness of early game helps you out enough that I could see it.

Ydrasse/Flea I go back and forth on.

[Costello]

Hectic is 100% town after those Gamma interactions lol, you're misinterpreting the random shade on Gamma as +scum when it was a giant +town flag.

[Costello]

? You were the hammer Hectic LOL

[Costello]

"could be no tomorrow if flea flips red"?

There will be no tomorrow, it's publicly 2:7. It's just best to just plan and work under the assumption that it flips town.

[Costello]

Well, Flea? Did we get ya

I'm kind of hopeful because your Costello push looked a little opportunistic, but idk if that's hopeful town opportunism

You should hammer

scumslip ggwp

[Costello]

VOTE: Farkran

Thanks Hectic

[Costello]

And my apologies for suspecting you Ydrasse

[Costello]

FWIW even coming into today ready to policyvote you if Ydrasse died, you outplayed the entire town and I wish you had won. Much stronger start, trying to save Gamma was the only qualitative mistake imo along with some Day 2 tonal stuff

[Costello]

Well, not so much trying to save Gamma, but the progression and the Gamma side of the interactions were very not ideal

[Costello]

Hectic kill wasn't terrible from a qualitative perspective, but he 100% needed to kill you there given that the possibility of this was publicly raised and the fact you would be mechanically cleared anyway

[Costello]

Me/bugspray would have also been acceptable kills but I get why he was hesitant. He needed 2 of me/madeline/bug voted, arguably the chance of mech autoloss is easy to disparage in hindsight but I think at some point you have to just decide the 2 and run with it.

He couldn't play both sides of the fence anyway since he'd have to claim an N3 result on bug, might as well just shoot Ydrasse N2 bug N3 or me N2 Ydrasse N3 or something. Leaving Hectic/me for 3 way though would have been EXTREMELY rough.

[Costello]

Also Hectic warned you I was Prism Day 1, you didn't listen, you shot catboi instead, HECTIC TRIED TO WARN YOU FELLA

[Costello]

tbh Hectic hardcarried by just not letting me concede

[Costello]

tru

840 won this game

[Costello]

idk I had a moment of weakness and gave him credit but that motherfucker was heavy

[Costello]

tbh I deserve 0 credit it given that I wanted and wished we had conceded, which I stand by, but I will take the win

[Costello]

u already hammered son its TOO LATE 2 CONCEDE

but ya virtually mechanical autoloss sucks

[Costello]

Needed to N1 me son

I had spent the night coming out of my depression+wasn't going to be as vicious today, I had everyone but you/Ydrasse as scum but I think surviving Day 2-whether it was a dumb vote on me or me getting outvoted on madeline-was game winning.

After thinking about it more, while Ydrasse/me might have been "safer", I think the Hectic shot was worth the risk and just unfortunate

[Costello]

Everyone but you/Ydrasse as town*

And I mean, bugspray was on me N1 so I would have still lived, and me/cat both being alive Day 2 was also insta gamelosing so uhhhh, yeah, rough spot.

Your reads came off extremely natural Day 1, Day 2 the fact you were doing the basics and not being a moron unfortunately said nothing about your alignment. There were multiple points where I figured you were just scum nonchalantly doing the basics but I'd have to go back to see them. Finally you had some good AtE-the "Please not Prism" was bold to say publicly and the disappointment about me scumreading you was good.

Ydrasse after I meta'd I had leaning town over you but I figured I could leave it to mech+was really afraid they had gone significantly further than previous scumgames

[Costello]

best part of this game was just trolling catboi in the PT 24/7

[Costello]

inb4 flip

[Costello]

lmfao cat you owned gamma so hard in the dead PT that he siteflaked

damn son

[Costello]

You probably should've just trueclaimed that over PT Cop, Farkran. Though it might've meant we actually push you out day 2 because you don't have mech reasons to be kept around, idk. I think the alternative makes it really hard to win though

Please do join more games, was great to play with you again after so long

I think true claiming after his soft would have been bad, because then there's no reason for me to even consider going on anyone else to start.

Faking another role would have also been hard given the power on the table, ex. Can't claim protective. Can't really claim tracker or something either. What would he even have left?

Got mechanically fucked by the N2 catch from the getgo, little chance to salvage it at that point

[Costello]

I won't say I had fun outside of the Raven PT but you made a very fun and inventive setup and modded/wrote great flavor.

[Costello]

(I said you but I meant Isis for the first, Chara for the second)

[Costello]

I do have feedback about my role as described though which is that scum blitzing in 5 way is instantly gamelosing, and you really want to avoid stuff like that.

[Costello]

I don't think the public announcing nightkill was great-it would have been better to exempt it or have it kick into gear AFTER nightkills imo-but it's worth noting that it was you happening to clear Hectic that made it extra brutal. It's OP enough without it but at least you can justify voting them all the way until the 3 way....but when you get wrecked that hard by how it interacted specifically with your role, that made it quite brutal.

[Costello]

fuckin' schrodinger's neighborhood was a classic isis moment but the roles were extremely interesting/fun even if not exactly balanced, which is never going to happen anyway with how this setup was designed (w/ roles being assigned before alignment)

p-edit: u lazy mofo lmao

probably just roast me for being a bad person tbh

[Costello]

Also like, of all the players who happened to get wagoned Day 1-of which the wagon was all town-they picked the one with the Raven

And I happened to pick town (75% chance).....and even though imo Gamma really did himself no favors, there was a lot of luck in shooting correctly

Like this game was Farkran losing multiple coinflips in a row in the worst way

[Costello]

special shoutout to my boy hectic for ABSOLUTELY NOTHING GET DUNKED ON SON

[Costello]

I don't think town meta was an issue this game, even though town meta atm is quite weak sitewide.

This town specifically was absolutely atrocious, and while I may have had the best reads I was by far the worst offender. Day 1 was lurker land with no town being proactive, Day 2 was extremely dysfunctional with bugspray lurking, at least 3 town players fundamentally not understanding basic mechanics, and my being extremely toxic and voting to literally concede the game. Town absolutely did not play well qualitatively lmao

[Costello]

Farkran played the best of anyone in the game, by far, except for maybe catboi.

Hectic also carried the game in the end, but he basically just picked The Body, was town Day 1, and didn't vote me Day 2.

[Costello]

Picked The Soul w/e

[Costello]

In retrospect that would have been worse because that would have flipped bugspray lmao, catboi was the best shot in that regard and has a better towngame than me anyway

[Costello]

I do have feedback about my role as described though which is that scum blitzing in 5 way is instantly gamelosing, and you really want to avoid stuff like that.

Could you explain this? This is with the "if the Raven is your scumpartner, the raven may only elect to affirm you as the elimination" clause in mind?

It's if scum blitzes a town Eve.

Similar stuff happens with Vengeful in 3 way, it's a big issue with that role but Eve took that issue and cranked it up a notch. Granted in a closed mini theme blitzing might not be the best idea to begin with, but I think autoloss for it is super possible and ridiculously brutal/infuriating.