Large Normal 232—Sibyl's Elegy [GAME OVER]

[Nero Cain]

this is mainly because a50 rolled back the miller claim which is incredibly scummy to do here seems they are afraid of a rolecop

DN did that yesterday after asked him why he didn't claim right away. poor vote.

[Nero Cain]

I don't feel like DN backing off the miller claim is a traitor crumb or really a scum play. It just seems dumb and useless.

[Nero Cain]

lol mark.

you know how XP is arguing that not everyone that defended T3 is scum? The inverse of that argument is that not everyone that called t3 scum is town. Yelling that t3 is scum and then not voting there when it matters makes perfect sense as bussing/distancing from a scum buddy. Why are you refusing to consider this?

[Nero Cain]

There's a big difference between bussing a partner whose wagon looks like it is gonna go through anyways and s

tarting the wagon in the first place.

t3 was already a wagon b4 andre even posted.

T3 [3] - Etine, DeathNote, WindowsXP

and t3 had already reached an 8 man wagon

T3 [8] - Etine, Andresvmb, Rathe, WindowsXP, Kerset, Marky Mark, Enchant, samantha97

while the most andre had said about t3 was

I’ve been pretty pinged by T3, would blow it up.

well, t3 would have never been lynched without andre's tireless yelling that t3 was scum.

but I don't think that's true and its kinda condensing to argue that we need andre to show us the way b/c we all can't play or some shit.

Your premise doesn't fit the facts here.

[Nero Cain]

like Mark, I think you are giving Andre way more credit for the t3 wagon than he deserves. I don't think he was this super duper influential member of the t3 wagon. Getting town cred for yelling that someone already suspected as scum is what he's banking on. but clearly, scum doesn't do that.

[Nero Cain]

yeah, IN FACT Andre missed BOTH huge wagons on t3 on the day one

naw, he was on that OG 8 man wagon. I mean he wasn't on any of the VC's in the 1.30's but I was counting that as 1 continuous wagon.

[Nero Cain]

oh, noes I've shattered marks worldview and now he's going to vote me.

[Nero Cain]

my argument is fucking sound, stop ignoring it

[Nero Cain]

but he wasnt in the game during t3's claims and when he got most of all votes

he was there and that's why he was yelling. He just didn't vote him after awhile.

[Nero Cain]

people were not considering it as a serious D1 lim option.

wagons ebb and flow. I think when he reached 8 votes he became a serious contender. the only other big wagons between that time are cabd and vasex.

personally, I'd argue that

T3 [5] - Rathe, KittyTacky, Vasex, bloodhail, Etine

were more influential in the rerise of the t3 wagon than andre,

This is going to have to wait until tomorrow night. But I will finish reading come hell or high water.

This is going to have to wait until tomorrow night. But I will finish reading come hell or high water.

deadline is approaching - your excuses grow thin

I’m not producing excuses - I’m saying what I’m going to do. And I already provided most of my thoughts. So you can scrutinize my opinions if you want.

^ are Andre's two posts between vc 1.29 and days end so I'm just not seeing how he's the reason that t3 eventually overtook cabd.

I realize that he has and was going to get a ton of town cred for calling t3 scum and that I look "scummy" for fighting an uphill battle b/c I don't hold the same opinion as the rest of the room but if it takes Andre to bludgeon his way through a few townies for you guys to start questioning him then fine, that's just what it takes but I think he makes a ton of sense as someone that decided to distance from him (t3).

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Save The Dragons

[Nero Cain]

now watch xp and andre argue that im scum if he flips town.

[Nero Cain]

we could just lynch cabd to get a clearer view of day 1

good posting

[Nero Cain]

kerset volunteers

[Nero Cain]

I went back to pages 120-121 and yeah you're right, it's not a great look for XP.

it makes XP look bad but not andre? but XP is hilariously silly here wrt claiming that I'm scummy for defending t3

but no not me

, cries XP.

[Nero Cain]

ur only town read is dead town...then a buncha leans

[Nero Cain]

Nero argued I “lied”. They didn’t analyze the wagons up until then and the movement and

concluded that I was “exaggerating” or something like that

no, I didn't lol. the wagon never completely died and you and Mark overstating your contributions. And now you are lying about what I said.

[Nero Cain]

you said that I said that you were exaggerating and I never said that.

[Nero Cain]

They didn’t analyze the wagons up until then

I was showing the evidence that you weren't as big a part of the t3 wagon as you'd like others to think you are.

[Nero Cain]

can you guys stop fighting Andres

he's just town here I think.

he's pushing town and he refuses to move on.

[Nero Cain]

scum cheerleading their buddies wagon while not actually pushing their buddies wagon is a thing.

[Nero Cain]

me

[Nero Cain]

other than irritating me, no

[Nero Cain]

y?

[Nero Cain]

y?

y not

kitty is free to think that but I'd like to hear what kitty actully likes.

[Nero Cain]

Look - how does nero reach the conclusion of cabd scum here and say im an acceptable lim in the same breathe.

This is scum trying to force a tvt wagon and its blatant

y is cabd town? and you can't use "he's spewed b/c u r scum" b/c im not. b/c the t3 wagon overtook him? I don't think that has to make him town.

You're egging on my wagon while saying cabd is also scum.

This is not logical

Am i the only one who sees this or are yall so blinded by tunneling me that its impossible to see basic fucking logic when it slaps you in the face.

this is you just saying that you and cabd can't be scum together but why? I've asked you and you haven't explained.

Andre is not with Mark btw

y?

VOTE: Nero Cain vibe check

just b/c you are town doesn't mean you can play like trash.

[Nero Cain]

This is mean

cmon Nero be better than this :<

I wasn't trying to be mean, was just saying that it was a bad vote

[Nero Cain]

Anastasia repeats so much that im the best player that i can start to think that she knows smth in this game (smth bad for me)

ana is just mocking you bro but none of us compare to the God that was Kain Tepes

[Nero Cain]

enchant you should have at least let STD claim. IDK what the flip will be. He was kinda null for me but so was Hayker (some guy in my last game) but I could see why ppl were scum reading him and his reads san CABD were bad.

[Nero Cain]

But we need to find out if the vig's shot was successful on Night 1 or not (if the shot was available).

how would we do this? are you asking for a protective role to claim? I don't feel like that's a good idea.

VOTE: CABD

[Nero Cain]

I'm a poor lynch today or any day.

[Nero Cain]

I didn't get much from reading Dunn's iso except that I'm

maybe

wrong about Andre if we are under the impression that everyone that he voted was town. But Andre is hot garbage and needs to be ignored for the rest of the game.

This makes the assumption that Cabd is town, but sure

Also, note that XP is saying that they can't be scum with cabd but isn't explaining why. It's argument by repetition and it's dumb and scummy.

If Andre really isn't scum then it's just XP, CABD, and Mark.

[Nero Cain]

but push on Andre is logically sound, Mark just knew it was wrong and when presented with evidence for why it makes sense (well at least to me) he just stuck his fingers in his ears.

[Nero Cain]

4483 is a good post

[Nero Cain]

Imagine trying to say I'm a good wagon when I was against the STD wagon.

this doesn't mean what you think it means.

no andres, my scum strategy is to nightkill my biggest supporters

but etine was the shot as that explains why Kerset died, not Kerset.

Ana, Vasex, and Anastasia are on this wagon here on STD - this is an acceptable solve for me here.

notice how I'm not a part of this solve. XP knows I'm town.

[Nero Cain]

Please tell me more about how defending someone who helped us to take down a maf PR d1 makes me scum.

it doesn't. but there's a ton of scum motivation in doing so. My main problem is that when I put a damn good case on him you stuck your fingers in your ears and instead of trying to understand where I was coming from you voted me. I think its agenda driven.

[Nero Cain]

some reason people TR you here.

b/c I'm scum hunting. you're just sore that I thought you were scum. but hey, XP is about to flip scum and I'll be town so...

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: xp

l-1 go ahead and fakeclaim

[Nero Cain]

but you think scum Nero leave Andre alive? nope

[Nero Cain]

like XP. you're arguing that your defense of T3 was town but my defense was scum. You are also arguing that you aren't scum b/c Kerset died but you also think I'd kill Kerset whom was town reading me and that I'd leave Andre, you and Mark all alive. lol

[Nero Cain]

sure write my play off as trolling

[Nero Cain]

stop trying to out town, XP. Also I was on the STD wagon and NKA is mostly ass.

[Nero Cain]

Kerset was probably killed by Etine,

scum did not kill Kerset

i know. but xp was trying to argue that scum did kill kerset and that makes them town

[Nero Cain]

Why should the neighbor come forward and shine a giant spotlight that says "scum shoot here!" although CABD is trying to argue there's multiple scum there so eh.

[Nero Cain]

I'm not really fighting against it I just don't think it's the best idea but the fact that the 3 ppl I think are scum are all being a siren about it makes me think it is indeed a bad idea. let's hear some opinions from others.

[Nero Cain]

should neighbor claim sam?

[Nero Cain]

fine fuck it. scum already knows im town. I was dunns neighbor.

popcorn to rathe

[Nero Cain]

j/w why you decided to check me

[Nero Cain]

they've already refused to claim.

[Nero Cain]

maybe on second thought we shouldn't have massclaimed yet and junked dunked koba today and figured out kobas buddies tomorrow (although I think its just CABD and Mark) but we've already started so w/e

[Nero Cain]

yes

[Nero Cain]

what do you think about his play?

[Nero Cain]

what do u think of samanthas claim

nothing? It's a vt claim. I mean after we get done with mass claim ima go through the roles and see what fits but atm I have no strong opinions of it. could maybe argue that claiming out of turn is odd and a lil' scummy but eh...

[Nero Cain]

Andre must feel like Linda Blair while her head is spinning.

UNVOTE: unvote

[Nero Cain]

it cuts off town communication

[Nero Cain]

What's the simple modifier?

[Nero Cain]

i unvoted so mafia doesn't hammer so we can do our mass claim

[Nero Cain]

@Nero it was just you and Dunn in your Neighborhood? I don’t remember a full claim around that.

yes

[Nero Cain]

The inherent logic in my solve is sound. At the most basic level Nero was against the scum PR wagon D1 and on the miselim D2. Please tell me more about how they are functionally different to scum in terms of their actions.

shit post. My case on Andre may have been wrong but it was sound logic. You were basically chainsaw defending Andre.

[Nero Cain]

!enchant

[Nero Cain]

we r mass claiming

[Nero Cain]

[Nero Cain]

either claim ur real role or die

[Nero Cain]

i have no other powers, im basically a named townie

[Nero Cain]

y is cabd town ana?

[Nero Cain]

his early interactions with T3 don't feel S/S

the ones where he pushed t3 for his reasoning on kitty? how is that impossible as S/S?

[Nero Cain]

I'm ready to hammer when we are done doing stuff

[Nero Cain]

XP is already hammered i think

[Nero Cain]

sorry u rolled scum XP but I shall have my revenge!

VOTE:

XP

[Nero Cain]

We still letting cabd do nothing? ok

I want to hear from vasex, really missed him yesterday. One more "what I miss" from Enchant and would make me want to pl him.

[Nero Cain]

get over yourself andre

[Nero Cain]

i mean Sams voting cabd whom I think should prob be the days lynch but ok...

[Nero Cain]

why I've been so keen to push those who defended T3 d1.

but two of the people that defended t3 are town so.... isn't it a bit simplified that you are "the people that defended t3 are scum!"

[Nero Cain]

as much as I want CABD I have to afmit that math not coloring himself green is p bad. Is he new to the site?

[Nero Cain]

I don't comprehend why that is a problem?
Like the purpose of the votecounts was to convince other people to vote or move towards a cabd elim, and other people don't have me as mech town. If I had colored myself green the first thing people would have done is look at the votecounts pretending I was neutral-colored.

There's a debate about whether or not one should I oneself to his or her reads. Though in a WWE game awhile back there was a guy that didn't have himself as his highest townread and he flipped scum and not having yourself as your own town read is p similar to that.

[Nero Cain]

but TBF I have flipped town for ^ reason too so....

[Nero Cain]

Enough. Rathe and Xp sred Anastasia
VOTE: Anastasia

while it's not impossible that rathe had correct reads I think Occams just says that 1 of ratheblood or andre was going to die anyways since they are the claimed prs.

[Nero Cain]

VOTE: Cabd

[Nero Cain]

what do you think of CABD scum reading you and y is ndmath a better vote than him?

[Nero Cain]

I want to trust Koba’s intuition on NDMath.

I think this is shit reasoning.

FMPOV he's scum that knew that I was town and despite town reading me said he'd be ok flipping me and I think its a scum thing to do. He also did that with STD so...he's just NOW pushing somewhere. It's d4 and he's done shit all except meta defend himself.

[Nero Cain]

And you have been so correct that you voted to execute XP and STD, and defended T3. So I don’t think you have ANY legs to stand one to call anybody else’s reasoning shit.

sure, I agree. This hasn't been a stellar performance from me. I just don't think "s/he said this, so I'm going to follow that." are great arguments. and as ana pointed out XP stopped town reading Math so you aren't even being factually correct. If you want to do the opposite of Vasex and sheep me on Cabd then cool, glad we are on the same page.

[Nero Cain]

vasex is just a less charismatic flavor leaf

[Nero Cain]

what the absolute fuck is wrong with you people? the three town on the math wagon should feel bad and sheep me.

VOTE: cabd

[Nero Cain]

i mean, im pretty likely to get nked but whatever.

[Nero Cain]

But seriously, does "town miller" make sense anymore with the only town COP power being a single 1-shotter?

we have a vanilla cop

[Nero Cain]

oh right, andre is the simple w/e claim.

[Nero Cain]

sometimes mods put in similar/duplicate roles just as WIFOM. Now ofc if Cabd flips vt then sure maybe you are scum that fake claimed a guilty but I don't really get why you would b/c I woulda lead the cabd lynch anyway.

[Nero Cain]

So Andre could be roleblocked by DGB, right?

yes

[Nero Cain]

deal cabd

[Nero Cain]

im not sure vasex, b/c someone thats confirmed town and has the ability to block shots vs. unconfirmed that finds out if ppl are vanilla or not doesn't seem like its much of a threat if like most of the rest of the scum team are goons.

cabd was likely to flip today anways. I guess you could argue that scum felt the need to fakeclaim guilty b/c they feared cabd not getting lynched but the 1 for 1 approach just seems kinda dumb.

We'll see what cabd flips and then revisit the blood discussion

[Nero Cain]

Neroooo, what do you think?))_

yelling my name doesn't get me to a computer faster.

I didn't think it made sense for Blood to claim guilty. I think the

teehee it was a reaction test

is something that comes from dumb town alot but I think its a good cover as scum and I'm not sure why he'd retract his claim on cabd only to get himself lynched b/c thats effectively what he's doing by going after Andre. Even if he were scum that faked a guilty on cabd he could still get the cabd lynch today and given himself an extra night to live so...I'm just kinda confused as to what his goal is.

I think/thought the "only one of blood/andre can be town" is false but Blood is claiming guilty on him so I guess that was a reality after all. So I think it makes plenty of sense to resolve this today but I still think cabd is scum so eh...

[Nero Cain]

He's not even playing this game why would he push me hard?

tbf he pushed you somewhat hard. Him not playing and active lurking it out is what makes me think he's scum.

[Nero Cain]

sure? IDK why mafia would have one then 1 cop but it's not an impossibility.

[Nero Cain]

And if he is scum his strange not-pushing is also looks like distancing.

but in that case wouldn't it make more sense to get cabd out first?

[Nero Cain]

i mean she said she believes its one of you or ana so...

[Nero Cain]

if we are going to resolve this and let cabd slip by again we should vote Blood

[Nero Cain]

if Blood is scum then he and his team are either very dumb or trying to pretend like it.

cabd was like a slam dunk today and all Blood is doing is getting himself lynched. I mean, if scum were really scared of a 1v1 between him and andre, and for the sake of the argument we'll assume cabd is town, cabd gets lynched today making it 5v3 tomorrow. Even if scum shoot Andre tonight and we lynch Blood the next day its then a 4v2 day 6.

As opposed to getting blood spilled today and going into a 2v7 d5. Even if they get a cabd lynch tomorrow its still a 2v5 d6 so scum either really fucked up or town caught a lucky break wich is about the same thing, ig.

[Nero Cain]

reaction to my fake guilty

his reaction is literally the same thing as cabds reaction. I know in theme games there can be duplicate roles and I thought I saw plenty of duplicate roles in the archive that Kerset linked but your andre logic kinda sucks bro.

[Nero Cain]

or...im just town

not impossible, no.

[Nero Cain]

Vas, I think OR says DGB died b/c they were town and scum have to start killing the confirmed town. Though your multiple cop theory is not impossible.

[Nero Cain]

Vas whats the order of your reads

[Nero Cain]

I actually think Mark is pretty likely to be scum and cabd either agrees w/ me or he's distancing from Mark.

[Nero Cain]

my thing is cabd and andre both had the same reaction to the fake gulties so IDK why he's scum reading one over the other.

[Nero Cain]

and I don't thnk the reactions are AI. both town and scum are going to want to 1v1 the guy that's claiming guilty on him.

[Nero Cain]

cabd is "not playing" though he seems like he's relatively active and tends to pop up when his # is called. He had Dunn as a scum read but never pushed there and lightly pushed ana then dropped it. Then on d2 said he'd be willing to vote 2 town (me and STD) but never bothered getting his hands dirty then when he finally does vote its on town Math so I mean this just seems like a scum stratagem to me.

[Nero Cain]

the only way he's mafia is if ita with cabd or atleast thats the way I see it. If not who is ana with and why?

[Nero Cain]

Does it look like this plan - checking him by Blood?
And maybe this is not fo survival of cabd, but for survival of one of them in case of elimination of the other one?

if you think it scum can likely do it. if Cabd wanted to survive today Blood jumping in and trying to get lynched over him seems like a decent possibility. As for the other, cabd going down isn't the end especially if they are well entrenched.

gun to your head-cabd is scum who are his buddies?

[Nero Cain]

theyre not the same at all, wtf

and he didnt try to 1v1 me idk how you call selfvoting a 1v1

cabd is still effectively 1v1ing you as he's begging me to get you tomorrow. He's either scum that realizes that his time is up/he wants to be bussed for town cred or he's mature enough to know that I need his death to move on.

[Nero Cain]

Why do we have to execute anyone just so that Nero can “move on”? How about we actually try and execute Scum?

y is cabd town?

if cabd is town and im wrongly tunneling him then im helping the scum team so exactly why is not resolving the cabd quagmire the wrong thing to do today? It's 3 v 8. worst-case scenario is im wrong and we go to 3v6 but if im right we go to 2v7. I'm not seeing what the downside is and if you think that this is tvt I don't see why you think having a tunneling town Nero is a good idea

[Nero Cain]

I think there’s a much higher chance bloodhail is Scum, and I think Cabd is just going to flip Town and I’m going to want to tear my hair out.

but y is cabd town and y did you change your mind there? I'm p sure that @ one point you were considering that I coulda been rght all along.

[Nero Cain]

xp was a scum read for rathe but her other reads were cabd, ana, blood and maybe mark so I don't really feel like we are ignoring rathes reads

[Nero Cain]

I'm pretty pissed off that cabd would join this game and not do anything. Like obviously if he was scum not hunting and doing nothing as scum makes a ton of sense but to intentionally do that as town is ???

I'm slow rolling today and gonna ISO some peeps.

[Nero Cain]

remind me y blood is scum. b/c their roles can't co-exist?

[Nero Cain]

you’re transparently Scum

then lets vote vasex?

[Nero Cain]

Where is kitty?

[Nero Cain]

there are two ppl calling each other scum but voting someone else ugh...

[Nero Cain]

you and vas although im worried that you and blood are tvt and scum is outside of you 2

[Nero Cain]

kitty what di you think of blood vs. andre?

[Nero Cain]

kitty what di you think of blood vs. andre?

errr nm but mark is already voting vasex so y aren't you sheeping him yet?

[Nero Cain]

well, if you are scum then you knew cabd and I were tvt so leaving cabd alive isn't a terrible play given that I was tunneling and he wasn't doing anything and was no threat to your team.

[Nero Cain]

im not arguing a andre-vasex team

[Nero Cain]

i can vote Blood tomorrow if he's not nked but I rather not have this guy in lylo

VOTE: Vasex

[Nero Cain]

it was vasex, a50 and mark

[Nero Cain]

y should i not vote a50?

[Nero Cain]

vasex is best troll

[Nero Cain]

pooky I feel like you said some kinda mean things to vasex. I feel like he tried hard. Don't be discouraged vasex.

[Nero Cain]

andre you need to chill man. I'm afraid you'll pop an artery.

[Nero Cain]

i want the dead and mafia threads.

[Nero Cain]

Btw blood carried game, thanks for ending this insanity.

hey, I helped!

[Nero Cain]

I will release private threads in 24 hours. Please PM me if there are any redactions you'd like to have made before then.

i hate this new fad

[Nero Cain]

i got nero as traitor day 2 but i doubted myself because of anastasia and nearly killed him lol

what did ana do to make you doubt it?

[Nero Cain]

I have no action and can't kill hence why rathe got a no-gun result on me. @ vasex

[Nero Cain]

enchant was pretty obvious scum. I was rather worried early game b/c I thought there was a good chance they could be flipped.

[Nero Cain]

I have no redactions.

[Nero Cain]

3's first vote was on his teammate for absolutely no good reason

distancing

[Nero Cain]

I mean a 3 shot vig could theoretically wreck the scum team. It's like a super aggressive cop that shoots b4 it gets a result.

[Nero Cain]

most ppl were town reading me early on. I know you'll disagree but I really feel like the only reason you really really thought I was scum b/c I was fake pushing on you.

[Nero Cain]

I feel like I played fairly well and was able to fool most in the beginning. Sure, having a partial clear on me maybe kept me alive but my scum game isn't a joke.

[Nero Cain]

oh right, you called me out for defending T3. forgot about that.

[Nero Cain]

that was luck

[Nero Cain]

i think the logic was traitor=1/2 scum thus 2 traitors=1 mafia

[Nero Cain]

Subject: Sibyl's Elegy MAFIA

awful feeling nero might be our other traitor

sorry :/

[Nero Cain]

I feel like blood did a very good job in the scum pt leading and trying to keep morale up

[Nero Cain]

I thought vig didn't shoot N1 TBH.

both the vig and scum shot anya

[Nero Cain]

if i was town I think I would have