Open 810 | Aliensitter Needed! | Mafia wins

[Lukewarm]

Seems like I am late to the party

[Lukewarm]

Oh if it’s hectic it’s not so bad

I thought prof was a newbie (prof do you have any pronoun preference?)

Shadow Claw

I do, He/Pokemon

VOTE: Professor

Claims he is a pokemon, but he can talk. The first pokemon I think of that can talk, is in fact,

A CRIMINAL

Checkmate.

[Lukewarm]

So I have a spicy tinfoil theory. I think that professor Drapion is not actually a drapion at all and is a robot attempting to pretend to be a drapion for the purposes of making achieving a professorship more impressive. I know, I know, this is all very farfetch’d, but I do have evidence.

Firstly, drapion has been established to evolve at level 40, which as everyone knows is a very rare occurrence in a game of mafia. Usually you have to have several weirdos running conflicting gambits to even get close to level 10 play. I find it very unlikely that someone with no completed games has managed to pull of a high enough level maneuver to evolve.

He COULD be a naturally occurring drapion, as drapion have been encountered in many places. This is exceedingly unlikely on the basis that there have been 0 wild drapion sightings in Central Park. Indeed, there aren’t even any confirmed drapion sightings in the greater New York area. Occams suggests that such a large Pokémon would have been spotted at least once during its migration.

Furthermore, when I began quoting music from Pokémon soundtracks, drapion remained ignorant of the context and didn’t respond to his supposed people’s music. I find this very suspicious.

Thirdly, when preparing to battle Mena, drapion mentioned that his claw was ready. Claw: singular, not plural. As everyone knows, drapion as a species has two claws, four spiked limbs and a scorpion like tail. This lack of biological familiarity with his supposed species is highly suspicious.

Finally, it is common knowledge that very few Pokémon have learned to speak proper English. Among those who have, a predilection towards using their own species name (such as the famous Team Rocket Meowth) is still common. drapion has shown a distinct lack of these behaviors. Clearly, the preponderance of evidence shows: Drapion must be a robot.

Ohh, and interesting counter theory. Either way, all signs are pointing to the professor. I am happy with my vote.

[Lukewarm]

I mean technically Mewtwo is the first talking Pokémon and there not exactly a criminal.
I am the Best Pokémon.
Drapion.

Mewtwo cannot talk. He can only use telepathy to communicate.

Meowth, a criminal member of a mafia-esque organization, on the other hand, he could talk.

So which is it Drapion? Are you claiming to be able to talk, like the pokemon member of the mafia, or are you claiming to have telepathic abilities (heretofore unheard of among the Drapion species)?

Spoiler:

Lukewarm asking the important questions

[Lukewarm]

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

[Lukewarm]

I am actually a little confused how the psychologist role helps us in this set up.

If he can get a "can kill" result on the baby sitter, but gets a "not able to kill" result on the cowardly mafia + any mafia that has already committed a kill, then on day 1 wouldn't a "can kill" result be a 50/50 chance at being the babysitter or mafia. And then starting on Day 2, they will basically be getting "is babysitter" and "is not babysitter" results, right?

That makes me question this advice given by Bingle

Optimal play is for baby to target Allen and Allen to aim for scrum.

We all pseudoclaim a psych inno D2 and maybe later day phases on the basis of how kills pan out.

psych claims immediately if has guilty

I do have to comment on this though:

@Luke:

REGARDLESS OF HIS ALIGNMENT

; you should always treat Bingle's mech talk as gospel. It is accurate and indeed best play for Town. End of discussion.

Note: The above is not limited to this game. It does apply here but is a general rule of the thumb.

I have never played a game with Bingle, so I guess I will take your work for it for now. His advice doesn't really come into play until day 2 anyways, so we can talk about it then.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Professor

I know that he was my RVS vote, but now I actually have a scumlean on him

[Lukewarm]

Grandpa, I am a bit confused by your logic on me tbh.

This is a really weird entrance. I think something that should be noticed. They come into the game with a read already done being made on Prof. They vote them and probably make some random meme excuse as mafia.

Post 79 Im not sure why you are taking it so seriously. I did not have a read whatso ever on ProfessorDrapion at the time, I think it was quite obviously my RVS vote. And I am just curious why you honed in on my RVS in particular. Gypyx rvs'ed professor for saying "first." VFP voted T3 with no reason.

You

voted VFP for not being able to see the future. I voted Professor because he claimed to be a talking pokemon. I am curious, what made you take my RVS serious compared to all of these others?

I will further exemplify Lukewarm's scumread on a later post that I have added but basically Bingle gives info against Lukewarm because Lukewarm pushed the narrative of why psych outting in which Almost50 made that post and I gave my reason on why they were scum above btw!! But after that post from Almost50, lukewarm instantly backs down. And it seems like mafia tried to push this narrative where they didn't want psych to out because they could set up a CC later hence why Almost50 tried to signal them to backdown; it would be more of wifom to say it in day chat.

And I cannot even follow this logic tbh.

You are saying that I saw advice coming from Bingle, that I think would out both the psych and the sitter to the thread, and then, as scum, I tried to make the case that that was bad for town instead of letting that plan play out to the benefit of the scum team? And then, A50, as my scum partner, told me to drop it in Day Chat, instead using the mafia chat?

This chain of reasoning leaves me very confused.

Your analysis on the interaction between me and Almost50 completely ignores the fact that me and Bingle had a multiple post back and forth leading up to Almost 50 weighing in.

In post 117 I said that I did not like the advice given by bingle. In post 118 bingle said for me to not question him, which I found... odd. So in post 123 I said I was now suspicious of him because of that interaction.

In post 129 Bingle came back and responded to my suspicions, and said that this kind of post was "a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result." Then A50 responded to the back and forth with post 134 confirming Bingle's claim that he always makes these kinds of posts, and that him doing so is NAI.

So I backed down from my stance. If he does it every game, town or mafia, then it is NAI, so why would I continue to push it?

Do you find it scummy for people to change their stances after being presented with new information?

[Lukewarm]

As for why I scumlean Professor, it was a combination of a bunch of posts.

Spoiler:

30 / 31 - he joins a joke wagon after the joke played out

35 - he blindly accepted the bingle plan that I still think is bad for town

70 - calls someone out for their rvs vote

96 - jumps on a new gypyx wagon, saying "I can get behind this" without any other information as to why he agreed with it, plus that was the first time he had mentioned gypyx

105 - still harping over T3's rvs vote

113 - this was the thing that made me iso him tbh. Blindly accepts Almost50's (I think) joke post about vfp.

Once I iso'ed him, I saw a lot of evidence that he was just following whatever other people were saying. Jumping on wagons without reason, blindly agreeing with other people when they made posts that I automatically questioned, and harping on someone's rsv vote.

None of them would have stood out individually, but when I iso'ed him there was a bunch of little things that pinged me, and no posts that made me townlean him, so I am happy with that vote for now.

[Lukewarm]

Responding to post 196 without a quote because I hate the way you formatted that. How am I supposed to respond when your entire post is hidden inside of an older quote?

Yeah, it feels like you are not actually reading my posts, and are instead trying to make it fit to this idea you already have in your head. Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.

This is why I dropped it:

what is a tried and true strategy Bingle has used as both town and scum for literally years to a pretty good result in a lobby that is at least half full of people who know Bingle pretty well.

Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

[Lukewarm]

Basically, I scumleaned him. I was given more information that indicated that the reason I scumleaned him was NAI. I moved him back to a null read.

And for some reason, you find that scummy ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

[Lukewarm]

Lukewarm, do you have any non-pokemon related thoughts on any players yet?

Yeah. I am actually suspicious of Bingle making the suggestion for the psych to automatically out a guilty result. Because imo, that seems more likely to out the sitter then to out mafia.

I think that they know that too, because they were in the Open Setup review of the game that the mod linked to in the first post, and there they talked about the Psych having "a fake inno and a fake guilty on a questionable reliability investigative."

So from my PoV, Bingle came out with some anti-town advice, and then said for no one to question them

that's... not his suggestion though?

Okay, looking over people's isos, I saw this, and realize that I misunderstood Bingle's suggestions. After a re-read, I realize that I simply misunderstood Bingle's instructions

[Lukewarm]

Why are you lying?

Okay, I am done interacting with you over this one comment tbh.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread, I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

Bingle made a statement, and that statement would be a dumb lie to tell. I mean if it was a lie, it could have be easily disproven by anyone willing to read his backlog (or by any of the people who have obviously played with him before) and therefore I decided to believe it.

Why should I not have believed his claim that he does that every game? If you are trying to say that it is indicative of me being scum, then you need to explain why town!Luke would not have reacted the exact same way.

Believe me or don't believe me, but I don't know what else there is to say on the matter.

[Lukewarm]

As for why I scumlean Professor, it was a combination of a bunch of posts.

Spoiler:

30 / 31 - he joins a joke wagon after the joke played out

35 - he blindly accepted the bingle plan that I still think is bad for town

70 - calls someone out for their rvs vote

96 - jumps on a new gypyx wagon, saying "I can get behind this" without any other information as to why he agreed with it, plus that was the first time he had mentioned gypyx

105 - still harping over T3's rvs vote

113 - this was the thing that made me iso him tbh. Blindly accepts Almost50's (I think) joke post about vfp.

Once I iso'ed him, I saw a lot of evidence that he was just following whatever other people were saying. Jumping on wagons without reason, blindly agreeing with other people when they made posts that I automatically questioned, and harping on someone's rsv vote.

None of them would have stood out individually, but when I iso'ed him there was a bunch of little things that pinged me, and no posts that made me townlean him, so I am happy with that vote for now.

1) I joined it due to Gypyx derailing when Bingle was top wagon.
2) Blindly accepting? I’ve seen that kind of thing done before and I personally have no issues with it.
3) Called them out? I was just making a sarcastic response towards their entrance post.
4) Yeah I wanted to see where it leads and and have no issues voting there as I have no reason to TR Gypyx at all, I explained why I Scum Lean them if you want to go back and read it.
5)I just think worse then Dann’s entrance. I also don’t even think Dann’s entrance is even that bad. T3’s isn’t entirely wolfy but it just isn’t a good entrance I feel.
6) When did I ever say I accept it? Let alone blindly. I just didn’t notice it can be looked that way until he pointed it out.

7)I hope I answered your concerns regarding my “little things”.

Well are there any players that you are currently suspicious of?

[Lukewarm]

My current reads are

Town Lean

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Scum Lean

T3
Professor Drapion

And then a bunch of people still sitting in Null.

Most of my experience has been in the newbie queue so far, stepping out into the Open queue definitely has a different feel. The fact that half the players so obviously know each other makes it harder to read everyone's interactions.

[Lukewarm]

Like he had time to respond before and after that readslist.
He also hasn’t explained much of his reads (or at least not that I’m aware of)
Like his highest TR according to the sheet is Gypyx...

I wouldn't say that they are in order, more like just two groups atm.

But I have explained why I scumlean you, and I did not think your response was enough for me to change it. This is why I said that I scumleaned you:

when I iso'ed him there was a bunch of little things that pinged me, and no posts that made me townlean him, so I am happy with that vote for now.

It was a 2 part reason. "a bunch of little things," and no posts that made me town lean you. Yes, you tried to address the little things, and I took your response into consideration, but I still have not seen any townie posts from you, so my read on you stayed the same.

I am townleaning gypyx because of his response to the me/bingle interaction. He is the one who made me realize that I had misunderstood bingle, when I feel like scum could have just stayed quiet and let the misunderstanding sit.

[Lukewarm]

So I take it you don’t want to bother reviewing your read on me or responding to me when I went over your concerns.
Alright.
I Scum Lean you now.

You scum lean me because your defense was not enough for me to change my read on you?

[Lukewarm]

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Are these ordered btw?

Not really. If I were ordering them, it would probably have Grandpa at the top actually

[Lukewarm]

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Are these ordered btw?

Not really. If I were ordering them, it would probably have Grandpa at the top actually

As in most scum?

No, I actually have you as my highest townread. Pretty sure you are just misguided and tunneling. But that is something that comes from town more then scum imo.

[Lukewarm]

Gypyx
VFP
Grandpa (I get the feeling he is just misguided town)
(maybe) Bingle

Are these ordered btw?

Not really. If I were ordering them, it would probably have Grandpa at the top actually

As in most scum?

No, I actually have you as my highest townread. Pretty sure you are just misguided and tunneling. But that is something that comes from town more then scum imo.

[Lukewarm]

Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.
This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past. I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic: Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI. Before I got caught up on the thread, I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.

[Lukewarm]

Like he had time to respond before and after that readslist.
He also hasn’t explained much of his reads (or at least not that I’m aware of)
Like his highest TR according to the sheet is Gypyx...

I wouldn't say that they are in order, more like just two groups atm.

But I have explained why I scumlean you, and I did not think your response was enough for me to change it. This is why I said that I scumleaned you:

when I iso'ed him there was a bunch of little things that pinged me, and no posts that made me townlean him, so I am happy with that vote for now.

It was a 2 part reason. "a bunch of little things," and no posts that made me

town lean you

. Yes, you tried to address the little things, and I took your response into consideration, but I still have

not seen any townie posts

from you, so my read on you stayed the same.

I am townleaning gypyx because of his response to the me/bingle interaction. He is the one who made me realize that I had misunderstood bingle, when I feel like scum could have just stayed quiet and let the misunderstanding sit.

Think your a little confused on your read there buddy.
You scum lean me if I recall not Town lean me, unless you just randomly 180’d you mis put “Town” instead of “Scum” which kinda makes me believe you aren’t entirely genuine about your read towards me.
You don’t believe me to have done anything Townie then keep watching me and I’m sure I’ll reveal my alignment eventually. If we both survive for tomorrow and you have the exact same read on me and nothing has changed, Boi I may have to bring up my 3rd Pokémon Move on you.

Um, If you read my posts I’m pretty sure I clarified my reasons and it shouldn’t have been that hard to catch on to what it was.
I don’t think helping with misunderstandings is AI? Considering A50 pointed out something I didn’t see and while it wasn’t entirely a misunderstanding it’s something I missed. It doesn’t really mean anything in the long run but I did miss it. I’m also pretty sure it was You (or maybe Gypyx) who called me out on it being bad.
I don’t know, if your only reason to TR Gypyx is “helped with misunderstandings” I hope you have more to add to that read of yours down the line.

I think you need to re-read my post...

I said I scum leaded you because of

• 1) A bunch of little things that pinged me
  2) a lack of "posts that made me town lean you"

And then I said you tried to address number 1, and I took that into consideration, but number 2 still stands, and my scum lean on you stayed the same.

I never said I town lean you, I said that I have not seen any posts from you that would make me think you are town. And if I don't have a reason to think you are town, but I do have a bunch of little things that make me think you might be scum, then that leaves me with a scumlean.

Spoiler:

like if you had just bolded more of my sentence it would have been clear

You bolded "

town lean you

but the full sentence was "no posts that made me town lean you"

[Lukewarm]

It is really starting to feel like people are not actually reading my posts. Like people are reacting to what they think I said, and not what I actually said. Fun times.

[Lukewarm]

Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle.
This is why I dropped it:
Bingle claimed that he has done the same thing in every game he has played for years. I cannot imagine that this is a lie, because it is something that could easily be disproven by anyone willing to look back over his game history or by anyone who has played games with him in the past.

I decided to move bingle back to a null read at this point, because I believed him here that it was NAI.

Almost50 chiming in was just an extra little nudge that re-accessing the situation as NAI was the right move.

I'll say it lay it out one last time before I start hard ignoring this topic:

Bingle's claim that he has done it in every game game for years was enough for me to decide that it was NAI.

Before I got caught up on the thread,

I also read Almost50's post, which further confirmed it should be NAI.

If you think that these two statements are contradictory, and not literally saying the exact same thing, then communication between the two of us has fully broken down.

Like, compare the blue to the blue, and the green to the green, and they are saying literally the same thing??????

I read Bingles post, and that was enough for me to realize it was NAI

and after that

I read Almost50's post which made me feel better about my decision

That is what happened. "Almost50 had almost no influence on me dropping my scumread on Bingle." Because I decided to drop my scumread on Bingle before I ever read Almost50's post. But then, when I did read it, it made me feel better about the decision I had already made. That is exactly how my thought process on Bingle evolved as I read the thread, and I feel like I have been saying the exact same thing over and over again.

Grandpa, this is the strangest game of semantics got 'cha I have ever been a part of. You are tunneling pretty hard on this. All I can say is that it seems like you are wildly misunderstanding me, and then digging your heels in over it. Please take a step back, and try reading through the situation again. If you still end up with a scumread on me over it, then more power to you.

[Lukewarm]

If you still scumread me over this apparent "contradiction", I give up trying to convince you otherwise.

[Lukewarm]

Can we please talk about literally anything else happening in the thread atm?

[Lukewarm]

T3

Y

I am scumleaning T3 for two reasons.

Firstly, just look over his iso. His posts are spread out, meaning he is semi-regularly checking in on the thread, but his posts hardly interact with the thread at all. Like he is averaging 9 words a post, he is not responding to other people posts and he is not supplying any logic behind any of his reads. This is his longest post to date

I honestly can't shake my soul scumread on pooky.... I don't know what's different but he somehow feels off...

Sitting on page 10 of the thread, and that is the most content he has been able to bring to the table.

The second reason was post 258. Not because he voted me (currently Grandpa is voting me, and he has a townread, you are voting me and I still have you as null, so the vote is not the determining factor). But because the reason he states seems to be jumping onto Grandpa's push. I feel like Grandpa's read on me is misguided town (that has since turned into tunneling), and T3 jumped onto a misguided town read without providing any other reason for it - which feels like scum to me

[Lukewarm]

I don’t think helping with misunderstandings is AI? Considering A50 pointed out something I didn’t see and while it wasn’t entirely a misunderstanding it’s something I missed. It doesn’t really mean anything in the long run but I did miss it. I’m also pretty sure it was You (or maybe Gypyx) who called me out on it being bad.
I don’t know, if your only reason to TR Gypyx is “helped with misunderstandings” I hope you have more to add to that read of yours down the line.

Looking back over the thread, I realized I missed this.

The reason I townleaned gypyx was because he cleared up a misunderstanding when leaving the misunderstanding out there would have blatantly helped scum. If the psych did what I thought bingle was telling the psych to do, it would almost be handing the scum the game. It was not a non-consequential misunderstanding.

[Lukewarm]

I am also waiting on a game to end so I can also see if your slot was scummy ( I think you should know what game I am referencing) but we can't talk about on going games so no further discussion on that please.

If you are referring to the game where I replaced out, my replacement got voted out Day 1. So you can already check my alignment from that game.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

[Lukewarm]

Let me ask you something, @Lukewarm
What do you look for when reading someone and deciding a scum/town lean?

I feel like that is a hard thing to pin down, because every person is so different, so a bit of it comes from getting a vibe for the player. And imo Day 1 reads are way different from reads later on in the game. So I find it hard to define a holistic approach, but I have been explaining my reads so far, haven't I?

Like, my town read on Grandpa is because I feel like scum players generally avoid aggressively alienating other players right off the bat. Of course this changes after they have a reason to think they can push someone out, or a wagon has already started to form or anytime after Day 1. But today Grandpa came in, guns blazing, confident he had caught scum in some kind of conspiracy, and tunneled hard into it. I just don't feel like I see scum doing that this early Day 1 tbh, so he gets a town read for me.

But that is more of "looking at each person individually", without a defined what I "look for when reading someone"

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

Well from my perspective you had a fair assessment in your quote which in my definition different than defense. I don't know what T3 is talking about here honestly.

Yeah, I followed your logic for backing down a little. But T3 is not posting enough for me to understand, and without any extra context it looks even more like he just followed along to form a wagon out of the push you were making, and then abandoned it when you stopped pushing so hard.

I am going to need something from T3 if I am ever going to move him out of my scum list

[Lukewarm]

My current reads are
{snip}

You haven’t talked about Mena in here.
What do you feel about them?

Honestly, I am bit lost on the interactions from the people who have obvious play history between them. Like all interactions between Mena / Bingle / Almost50 / Dann.

I am hoping they will all hard reading each other, so I can analyze that, because it is harder to analyze their familiar interactions as is. And then Pine + MWNN have 1 post between the two of them, so they are also both big question marks. So I admit, there are a lot of blanks on my read list right now.

[Lukewarm]

Professor’s Reads

ProfessorDrapion

Bingle

Menalque

Dannflor

GrandpaMo

VFP

Almost50

PookyTheMagicalBear

T3

ManWithNoName
Pine

Gypyx

Lukewarm

Is this ordered? If so, what has you putting Bingle at the very top of you town reads?

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

Well from my perspective you had a fair assessment in your quote which in my definition different than defense. I don't know what T3 is talking about here honestly.

Yeah, I followed your logic for backing down a little. But T3 is not posting enough for me to understand, and without any extra context it looks even more like he just followed along to form a wagon out of the push you were making, and then abandoned it when you stopped pushing so hard.

I am going to need something from T3 if I am ever going to move him out of my scum list

Realized this probably should have come with a VOTE: T3

[Lukewarm]

Drapion + GrandPaMo + Lukewarm HERO-SOLVE?

would u bus d1 if u were scum? is this how this setup would work optimally? sorry im new

So far you and Drapion have been pushing me and I have been pushing Drapion. So pooky's hero solve is that the entire scum team came I to Day 1 ready to bus each other

[Lukewarm]

I really don't see why prof is scum. I'm going to UNVOTE: for now.

Hmm. One of my top two scum reads coming to the defense of the other.

Am I going to be the one who ends up with a Day 1 hero solve?

[Lukewarm]

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

This is not something I even considered. So I looked back over his iso, and I can kind of see it.

Like I can see where his iso could be coming from a "I want to get everyone's town reads quickly and note any time people's reads shift slightly so I can cross reference everything to find the lovers" strategy instead of a "I want to find scum" strategy.

Like half the time someone posts a read, their response is "do you have any more reads" instead of actually talking about the reads themselves

But I am worried that this is just confirmation bias because I already put him in the scum team in my head. Would like to avoid tunneling. Can other people weigh in.

Spoiler:

Now Bingle, got any other early reads?

Hmmm.

Too many scum reads

, not enough time. Monkey get your ass in here, I have need of you.

Hmm?
Where exactly are they?

What’s your current town pool Gramps?

I would like to request to have Pooky’s Top 3 SR’s and A50’s Top 3 TR’s.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

Ok now here’s what I got for you.

Top 3 Town: Bingle, GrandpaMo, (?)
Top 3 Scum: Lukewarm, Pooky (Soul Read), (?)

You haven’t talked about Mena in here.
What do you feel about them?

[Lukewarm]

Thus while I can’t prove to you I’m town I can prove (or at least try) to prove that I only had intent for the solve aspect.
No matter my alignment, I want to look Townie and solve. I won’t deny this.

My entire point is that imo, it does not look like you are trying to solve lol.

I am hoping other people might weigh in on you, so I can tell if it is just tunneling/confirmation bias or not.

Spoiler:

I am a bit worried that I am, because I have only completed one game on this site so far, and I definitely did tunnel on this one other player in that game. Like on Day 2, I was convinced enough that I lead the push to vote him out, and the kicker was that he was voted out Day 2 without a single mafia on his wagon. Like I just lead an all town vote against the guy, and I would really like to not repeat that here in this game.

[Lukewarm]

Hmm. One of my top two scum reads coming to the defense of the other.

Can you elaborate a bit on the T3 read? I'm interested in why you think he's scum.

I kind of laid it out in post 290, but basically two things:

When I look over his iso, he is posting a few times a day, with a few hours in-between each post, but he does not really seem to be interacting with the thread. His posts are all super short, they are not responding to other people's posts, and they are not asking other people questions. If just feels like he is passively observing the thread, and there is not really a sign that he is trying to understand other people's reads nor does he appear to be putting any pressure on his own reads. So overall, it feels like he is not trying to find scum.

The second reason was the way he responded to Grandpa's push against me. Like grandpa made their case, and I responded, and his post was

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

Then Grandpa kept pushing, and I made the same response, but tacked on "at this point I think you are tunneling over this." And then Grandpa backed down from the push, and started talking about other people, and T3 sent

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

It just feels like neither his vote on me nor his unvote were genuine.

He did not really explain why he agreed with Grandpa's side of your back and forth, but joined the wagon. And then "grandpa, I think you are tunneling" is not a defense that I think would have swayed anyone other then grandpa, if they really did believe their scum read on me. So if he were town, and he did not ever have a scum read on me, why did he join the wagon, and if he did really have a scum read on my, why did he leave?

But I could see it coming from scum "join the wagon that is currently gaining steam" then "leave the wagon when grandpa stops pushing it"

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: ProfessorD

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: VFP
Thin ISO, Drapion tunneling (who is a mild tr).

The 3 least active players (exluding N_M who replaced in) are {pine, VFP, T3}

Claiming a thin iso is scum indicative while having one of the shortest isos in the game yourself is an... interesting... position to take.

[Lukewarm]

I would like to hear more from Almost50, Bingle, Mena, and Pine. I feel like I have some kind of feel for everyone else in the thread, but all 4 of you guys are big question marks right now. Like, Bingle, even when you talked about the ProfessorD case, it felt more like a "this is what other people are scumreading him for" as opposed to what you think yourself.

Who are you 4 currently leaning towards for our Day 1 Elim?

[Lukewarm]

i disagree. while reading back at what bingle said, it felt geninune to how he felt

I mean I may be wrong, but that is not the impression I got.

He opened it up with "As to why people are scumreading Prof:" and that came across more like "this is why other people are scum reading him" as opposed to "this is why I am scum reading him." Plus he did not include a vote.

So, like I said, would love to hear from him to gain some clarity

[Lukewarm]

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment

Can you explain this link a bit better, because I town leaned gypyx and scum read T3, and I am not sure what is putting them on the same team

[Lukewarm]

and luke + drap are same allignment.

Wait, I stopped reading too soon. This is an even more confusing take, because drap is the person I have put the most effort in to pushing.

I think you might need to double check your math Grandpa

[Lukewarm]

Pooky i don't think you replied to me asking what kind of mood is required for you to want to play like you are rn?

I don't even understand your question

Come on, how are you

feeeelin maannnn

?

Are you feeling

effervescent

? or are you filled with

melancholy

? is there a touch of

listlessness

? maybe you're closer to

exasperation

? maybe a hint of

ennui

?

Spoiler:

apparently this is crucial in determining your alignment. I mean, I don't know how, but Gypyx seems sure it is the key

[Lukewarm]

i still think there is one between luke + t3 and gypyx + drap.

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum then t3 is most likely town
if luke flips town then t3 is most likely

town

.{I think you meant scum here}

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment and luke + drap are same allignment

.

im still iffy on luke. yes i did say my solve is luke, t3, gypyx, but using my logic; it wouldn't work out propely. it would make t3 + gypyx scum and luke + drap town.

the only time luke would be in the reads if it is luke, drap = scum and that makes t3 + gpyyx town now.

pine is also another viable scumslot that has not been explored yet.

I would like further clarity from Grandpa about this. Like I see where two claims in your first sentence can lead to the orange and blue sections. Me and T3 crossvoted, so you don't think we could be partners. Gpyx and ProfessorD crossvoted, so you don't think they could be partners.

But where is the red coming from? How are gypyx and T3 linked? How are me and ProfessorD linked? I mean, me and ProfessorD also crossvoted, so unless you are using some logic that I am missing, this pairing seems inconsistent with your anti-partner logic you used before.

would like clarity plz

[Lukewarm]

@Gypyx, Pooky ignored me when I asked them too.

Let's assume he said that the mood was

ennui

.

What does that tell us?

[Lukewarm]

i still think there is one between luke + t3 and gypyx + drap.

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if luke flips scum then t3 is most likely town
if luke flips town then t3 is most likely

town

.{I think you meant scum here}

this would imply that gypyx + t3 are same allignment and luke + drap are same allignment

.

im still iffy on luke. yes i did say my solve is luke, t3, gypyx, but using my logic; it wouldn't work out propely. it would make t3 + gypyx scum and luke + drap town.

the only time luke would be in the reads if it is luke, drap = scum and that makes t3 + gpyyx town now.

pine is also another viable scumslot that has not been explored yet.

I would like further clarity from Grandpa about this. Like I see where two claims in your first sentence can lead to the orange and blue sections. Me and T3 crossvoted, so you don't think we could be partners. Gpyx and ProfessorD crossvoted, so you don't think they could be partners.

But where is the red coming from? How are gypyx and T3 linked? How are me and ProfessorD linked? I mean, me and ProfessorD also crossvoted, so unless you are using some logic that I am missing, this pairing seems inconsistent with your anti-partner logic you used before.

would like clarity plz

thanks for catching that. i actually did mean scum lol. you would know because you are scum

in all seriousness though, it should make sense because from the orange and blue... i am not using individuality anymore but looking more of pairs and thinking that now bussing is a viable option... there is def a scene here for that scenerio to play out. i even said i was still iffy on you because from my logic if drap flipped town it would mean you are town as well and THAT read comes from the T3 + luke pairing

There is nothing in the original post that links the two pairs tho. Like the only thing I can see is that you happened to right me on the left side of my pairing and you also happened to right drap on the left side of his pair. But I don't see why you could not have just as easily written the pairs as

if drap flips scum then gypyx is most likely town.
if drap flips town then gypyx is most likely scum.

if t3 flips scum then luke is most likely town
if t3 flips town then luke is most likely scum

this would imply that gypyx + luke are same allignment and t3 + drap are same allignment

.

You have not provided any logic to cross reference the pairs the way you did, and not ^^this^^ way. Which is the way I think the same pairs play out, since I town read gypyx and scum read t3+drap.

[Lukewarm]

gramps nbodo ywill blame you lets go

whats the vc? am i hammer?

Drap is E-2, but N_M will hammer whatever wagon hits E-1.

Yeah. In a game with Not Mafia, intent to E-1 is the basically the same as intent to hammer.

[Lukewarm]

honestly i see this as you getting offended to being paired with drap...

Not really offended, as much as just confused lol

And I remained confused until you spelled out how you came to your that conclusion. I am sorry to say that I think that the logic you used is a bit nonsensical, and that is why I did not understand right away.

--You created two pairs (T3/Me) and (gypyx/Drap), and I saw you point out the interactions that made you pair us off this way, so I'm following along to this point.
--Then you looked at the pairs, and you think that T3 is more likely in T3/Luke pair and you think that gypyx is more likely in the gypyx/drap pair, fair enough.
--So you concluded that you believe that T3+gypyx are a scum team. I am still following you to this point, so we are all good up to here

But then your next step is where I think you should reexamine your logic.
But then concluded that if you are wrong on one of the pairs, you must be wrong on the other one, and would flip your entire scum team instead of just flipping that slot. And that just... doesn't make any sense to me...


I brought it up because I was confused, but I think I understand how you drew your conclusions, even through I don't like your logic. So there is no need to bac and forth over this right now. We can cross this bridge once we get to the point that someone out of t3/me/drap/gypyx flips

[Lukewarm]

i think town loses this game if this is how we are playing just by the judgemental basis that scum could be one of the people being collectively ignored or townread

There is a big difference between "good enough to be out of the elimination pool on Day 1" and "convinced someone is town for the rest of the game."

I know my own reads will evolve as we get more information, such as Drap's flip, the Night kill, and if we get any PR info.

I'm not really used to the game being solved by the end of Day 1, so this seems par for the course imo

[Lukewarm]

This Animal Police Department is on fire today

where did Pine go

did he get replaced or something?

I want to be a part of the animal police :/

I actually tried to make my profile picture a drawing I made of my cat, but when I shrunk it down to the required size, it was SOO pixely. I'm not sure why the pixel limit is so low

[Lukewarm]

NM is on point this game

I hope he pockets you enough that we win!

Eyy. Professor, you made it in before the mod. Any last minute reads you wanna leave in the thread?

Unless you are getting ready to flip red anyways lol

[Lukewarm]

Also I wasn’t lying when I said I wasn’t looking for Masons.
I was just trying to get town Cred but it failed.

You got the WCFTWR.
Not that I didn’t want to be gone today, but I was hoping it would be for a actual reason.
I guess TBF some gave a decent reasoning but majority was not.

Imo, it looked like you were getting scum reads without properly engaging with them - like you were getting the reads, but then it did not look like you were using that info to try and solve.

Which apparently is because you were not getting the reads to solve, you were them in order to look townie.

The mason hunt explanation I guess was a red herring tho.

So we spotted a non-town behavior, but then had the wrong explanation for why the scum was doing it

[Lukewarm]

Mena-scum so dead tomm btw

Yeah, looking back, a scum-flip on ProfessorD is not a great look for Mena

[Lukewarm]

Grandpa Mo or Menlaque today

If we are choosing between these two, I am leaning towards Mena. - I have Grandpa as a town read

VOTE: Mena

[Lukewarm]

I received a psychologist innocent result on Pine.

[Lukewarm]

Right. I received a psychologist innocent result on Dannflor.

Please claim your real result or a fake one in your next post, if you haven't done so already. If you got a no result due to being roleblocked, you should claim to have targeted Dannflor, regardless of your actual target.

The reason this is valuable is because there is a 1/11 chance for a false guilty, a 1/11 for a useless result (Dannflor), a 1/11 for a real guilty, and a 8/11 for a real inno. That means that 73% of the time the D1 Psychologist result is useful. It's also likely that the mafia team already has a significantly reduced PR pool based on play and Motion Detection.

We should not hypoclaim results tomorrow, as after tonight the psychologist is probably completely useless in generating innos and guilties (Both scum will have successfully killed, and thus both scum will be false innocents.) but the Psychologist should still be targeting to obfuscate MD results.

We 100% should be aiming to murderface the Roleblocker specifically today, which means that we're aiming specifically for the most protected of the scumlords. The roleblocker, assuming setup understanding, will have been marginally more likely to bus and will be marginally less likely to have been bussed. I intend at some point to look through Drap's townreads as that is where I'll be focusing the majority of my attention.

The day opening of votes on Mena make me disinclined to vote there.

wait why out a inno on the dead person . is it because of babysitter can protect u?

The point, I think, is that if the psychologist dies before they find a guilty result (which is when they should publicly claim their role) then we can look back to what ever they claimed today, and use that info.

So everyone should be making a claim for a psychologist role. The real psychologist is trying to leave their results for posterity. Everyone else is making a claim so that the real psychologist doesn't out themselves in the process.

[Lukewarm]

Wait, are you hard claiming Psychologist with a guilty result?

[Lukewarm]

isn't the point of this, not to worry bout the result?

Bingle said all fake results should be innocent results, and that the psycologist should hard claim if they got a guilty result. So now I don't know if you are actually the psychologist hard claiming, or you misunderstood the directions.

[Lukewarm]

Luke is innocent

Can confirm

[Lukewarm]

Oh, feel free to ask me questions about my proposed strategy from D1 today, as the psychologist is now a largely useless role and it being outed is not a big deal, tbh, as scum won't be too worried about killing there. (Far more important from their POV to hit the other PRs)

A large part of my Gypyx scumread early was what I saw as a manufactured slip. Luke doubling down on it was also :/

I think it was just a misunderstanding from my part, but I am good now once I figured out what you were actually saying for us to do. So, just poor reading comprehension

[Lukewarm]

well actually u might despise it since its guilty on you. dw tho i just pmed mod, and it was a mod error, they said guilty on t3 :3

So your solution was to make a new guilty claim. Nice.

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:
Would like to hear from pine and Almost50's (hypothetical) guilty before I make any decision today

[Lukewarm]

can we request a prod already on pine? it has been way more than 48 hours.

I imagine they get 48 hours from the start of Day 2, so even through they only have 2 posts so far all game, I don't think that they can technically be prodded yet

[Lukewarm]

So I was looking over Professor Drap's Wagon, looking for who I think could have been bussing. And I think I can make the strongest case towards it being a Pooky bus

I know pooky voted Drap really early (45), but he did not include an actual scum read on Drap when he cast his vote. His stated reason for voting him was that he was "shamelessly sheeping Mena" which is a real easy vote to walk back down the line. And then... he just did not mention ProfessorDrap at all for a very long time. He even conspicuously left Drap off of his read list entirely (376)

The first time Pooky ever suggests we eliminate Professor Drap is after I make a case against Professor Drap , AND after VFP suggests mason hunting (385) AND after Not_Mafia had showed up to start pushing him (394).

And pooky does not list suggest eliminating Drap until 448, maybe 408 if I'm being generous, but that is still after the momentum started building against Drap

[Lukewarm]

I think me, VFP, and Not_Mafia were all early and aggressive, so probably no bussers in here.

I think T3 was too back and forth on Drap, to the point that he would not gain any towncred for bussing.

I don't think it is Gypyx, because Drap pushed Gypyx as his top scum read for most of the game (up until he he OMGUS voted me lol).

I could see

maybe

Bingle, but honestly Professor Drap's iso looks like he is trying to buddy up to him / he lists Bingle as his top town read.

And then I left my case ^^^ for Pooky

[Lukewarm]

[quote="In post 853
who do you think pooky is alligned wit[/quote]
Unclear... If I eliminate N_M, VFP, T3, Gypyx, and Bingle all for the reasons I did not think they were bussing the Professor. And you were my strongest TR of Day1, then that would leave :

• Almost50
  Menalque
  Pine

But I have not actually looked at partner interactions with Pooky yet. That is just from looking at the Drap wagon.

[Lukewarm]

who do you think pooky is alligned wit

Unclear... If I eliminate N_M, VFP, T3, Gypyx, and Bingle all for the reasons I did not think they were bussing the Professor. And you were my strongest TR of Day1, then that would leave :

• Almost50
  Menalque
  Pine

But I have not actually looked at partner interactions with Pooky yet. That is just from looking at the Drap wagon.

Spoiler:

Fixed broken quote.

[Lukewarm]

I mean, maybe, that post was super dense. I just read the tl;dr conclusion, which I thought ended with T3 + someone else?

[Lukewarm]

Looking back, it seems someone similar, although different in some places. Like you listed Pooky as a main agressor, when I left them as the busser because they were not being agressive. But overall, you did end with Pooky+A50, which is close to where I ended.


But I did not find your post particularly helpful in solving because you explain how you can picture all of T3, Pookey, Almost50, Pine, Mena, VFP, and Not_Mafia all as mafia in different combinations.

So that post read like "I am going to list every possible combination of scum, and comment on each" instead of saying "here is the person I think it most likely is and why." - Which makes it way harder to parse through.

I don't mean to offend, and if anything, that post helps me TR you harder because it is very clear you are putting a lot of effort into solving. It just makes for a hard read

[Lukewarm]

I mean, maybe, that post was super dense. I just read the tl;dr conclusion, which I thought ended with T3 + someone else?

just only read the first approach which follows the pooky narrative..

first appraoch - two scum is two bussers
second approach - two scum is 1 busser and 1 on the sidelines
third appraoch - two scum is 2 sideliners

my first approach follows the pooky, a50, drap narrative being the most likely scenerio if two bussers occured

I went back and read through it all.

[Lukewarm]

If anything, it looks like we reached the same conclusion using two different paths.

You reached it through looking at how Drap read Pooky, and also by looking at Pooy's reads of other people like Mena. And I reached it by looking at when (and why) Pooky voted Drap, and when Pooky actually started pushing them (and noticed a 400 post gap between the two).

But us reaching the same conclusion different ways, is probably a good sign in regards to the conclusion.

[Lukewarm]

Looking back, it seems someone similar, although different in some places. Like you listed Pooky as a main agressor, when I left them as the busser because they were not being agressive. But overall, you did end with Pooky+A50, which is close to where I ended.


But I did not find your post particularly helpful in solving because you explain how you can picture all of T3, Pookey, Almost50, Pine, Mena, VFP, and Not_Mafia all as mafia in different combinations.

So that post read like "I am going to list every possible combination of scum

, and comment on each" instead of saying "here is the person I think it most likely is and why." - Which makes it way harder to parse through.

I don't mean to offend, and if anything, that post helps me TR you harder because it is very clear you are putting a lot of effort into solving. It just makes for a hard read

u think so? i thought i gave discreet solves

(nd all possible in my perspective)

thru the specific appraoches. like for 1st approach it only consists of ppoky + a50. pooky was deemed aggressive only towards the end etc

I bolded to highlight my point. You can keep posting the way you want, just trying to highlight why like 70% of the thread either skipped down to the conclusion or skipped the post entirely.

IMO it is better to say "My best solve is ________ because ______" without first going threw all of the analysis of how you got there. In your post, you have to read through

multiple paragraphs

before you get to any reads that you have or points you are trying to make.

In general, I feel like I should understand the point you are trying to make from your first (ish) sentence. Then you can follow that up with you primary reasoning. And then you can follow that up with some secondary reasoning if you want.

I mean in school, they taught us "Thesis Sentence at the top" for a reason.

Spoiler:

For example. My case on Pooky went

• My best case is against Pooky
  
• Here is why I could see it
  
• Here is why I discounted the other possibilities

[Lukewarm]

my aggression meter is off the charts

dont mess with a hungry bear

Sees bear. Pokes it with a stick.

[Lukewarm]

wait are either of you actually considering me as scum?

cuz that's just ridiculous talk.

also I can't be bothered to read anything over 4 lines.

Went looking for someone who might have bussed Drap, found a bear.

The bear voted Drap really early for no reason (bear just wanted to be a sheep)

Bear did not push on Drap until after, three different players had already made cases against Drap (Me+VFP+Not_Mafia)

Looks like bear might have early voted partner, because they did not push him until it looked like the vote was going through regardless.

[Lukewarm]

VOTE: Pooky

[Lukewarm]

I mean, you voted Drap in post 45 without calling him scum.

Spoiler:

VOTE: PROF DRAPIEN

I AM ONLY SHAMELESSLY SHEEPING MENA BECAUSE HE IS A HANDSOME STUD AND I WANT TO BE CARRIED IN HIS ARMS THIS GAME

The next time you mention Drap, for any reason, at all, is 408in your "hero solve". (Then did not suggest we elim him Day 1 until 448)

What happened in the 400-ish post game between your sheep vote, and you calling for his elim?

• Gypyx votes for Drap
• I made multiple cases against Drap
• VFP suggests he was Mason hunting
• Not_Mafia pushed for drap's elimination
• Bingle listed him as a scum read
• and then, after several other people turned on him, now if he was your partner, it is too late to pull out of the vote, that is when you started pushing on him.

Looks like a decent chance for early distance vote/attempt to pocket Mena turned to "guess I need to bus now" to me.

[Lukewarm]

@Luke: You are Town!casing Pooky here, mate. Just check how he played scum in Open 807. Things to note: 1- Strong push on TOWN early on. 2- Late (but not too late) on the bus with a STRONG presence (for milking the Town!cred). 3- Lots of GIFs. Lots and lots of them. (This last one I only noticed NOW )

1- Maybe. Will consider this

2 - I would like to point out that as soon as he decided to push for Drap (so that post 448 on) he was very vocal about it. To the point that Grandpa listed pooky as one of "the three main aggressors."

3 - I will also provide a counter example of Micro 1003, where there are 0 gifs in scum!pooky's entire iso lol

I would also like other people to weigh in as well.

[Lukewarm]

Scum:
Lukewarn

Need Posting:
Pine
MNN

I mean he did not even appear on your scum list as of 376.

[Lukewarm]

@A50 Who is your top read if not pooky?

You too @pooky?

[Lukewarm]

@Luke: You are Town!casing Pooky here, mate. Just check how he played scum in Open 807. Things to note: 1- Strong push on TOWN early on. 2- Late (but not too late) on the bus with a STRONG presence (for milking the Town!cred). 3- Lots of GIFs. Lots and lots of them. (This last one I only noticed NOW )

1- Maybe. Will consider this

2 - I would like to point out that as soon as he decided to push for Drap (so that post 448 on) he was very vocal about it. To the point that Grandpa listed pooky as one of "the three main aggressors."

3 - I will also provide a counter example of Micro 1003, where there are 0 gifs in scum!pooky's entire iso lol

I would also like other people to weigh in as well.

i can't believe people are actually using my gif count as a way to read me that's wild.

here's a game where I played as town and used only gifs:


viewtopic.php?f=56&t=83473

I for one do not want to read you based off of gif count lol

a50 tried to clear you with it, but I'm thinking it is NAI. You used a lot of gifs in his example, but did not use any in mine. You were scum in both, so it is not a scum tell.

[Lukewarm]

@A50 Who is your top read if not pooky?

You too @pooky?

I'm fine with yeeting Pine/Mena or maybe Lukewarm.

I'll probably just end up sheeping bingle again

Why me? Because I poked you with a stick?

[Lukewarm]

@A50 Who is your top read if not pooky?

You too @pooky?

I'm fine with yeeting Pine/Mena or maybe Lukewarm.

I'll probably just end up sheeping bingle again

Mena and Pine are both not welcome in my town block yet, so am down for that conversation as well.

[Lukewarm]

I have a reason to shoot Dannflor?

[Lukewarm]

Just looked back, did not remember I was his final vote lol

[Lukewarm]

I mean, you voted Drap in post 45 without calling him scum.

Spoiler:

VOTE: PROF DRAPIEN

I AM ONLY SHAMELESSLY SHEEPING MENA BECAUSE HE IS A HANDSOME STUD AND I WANT TO BE CARRIED IN HIS ARMS THIS GAME

The next time you mention Drap, for any reason, at all, is 408in your "hero solve". (Then did not suggest we elim him Day 1 until 448)

What happened in the 400-ish post game between your sheep vote, and you calling for his elim?

• Gypyx votes for Drap
• I made multiple cases against Drap
• VFP suggests he was Mason hunting
• Not_Mafia pushed for drap's elimination
• Bingle listed him as a scum read
• and then, after several other people turned on him, now if he was your partner, it is too late to pull out of the vote, that is when you started pushing on him.

Looks like a decent chance for early distance vote/attempt to pocket Mena turned to "guess I need to bus now" to me.

same thing happens wit t3... but again, no one likes to listen to me anymore so

The difference with T3 is that he actually came to Drap's defense a couple times before voting.

Spoiler:

I really don't see why prof is scum. I'm going to UNVOTE: for now.

VOTE: VFP
Thin ISO, Drapion tunneling (who is a mild tr).

I see where the Drap wagon is coming from but at this point I'm just not feeling it.... I didn't like his defense that much though.

I don't think scum would usually tie themselves to their partner, after half the lobby has already scum read them.

[Lukewarm]

UNVOTE:

mainly voted because it seemed like pooky was not gonna take the read seriously without it.

I still don't actually want any votes to go through before Pine either graces us with his presence, or is replaced.

[Lukewarm]

@Bingle. How do you feel about Almost50 coming to Pooky's defense? Do you agree with his defense?

[Lukewarm]

@pooky, reading through your iso in the game where you only talked in gifs was hilarious (would encourage anyone to do so)

[Lukewarm]

Pre-planning elims in the thread is a bad idea.

[Lukewarm]

Pre planning lims is no different to giving a reads list with associates.

Maybe. For me, when I am looking at a read list, I am asking "who makes the most sense to eliminate today" and assume that the list will change drastically based on todays flip / the NK / PR info, and examining all that new information.

I guess saying "vote this person today, this person Day 3, this person Day 4" feels wrong because like, I don't know yet what I am going to know on Day 3, so how can I suggest what I should do that day lol.

There is the worry that you get set on the plan, and confirmation bias yourself into it.

[Lukewarm]

Hoenstly, I just want the inactive players to check in so I can know if A50 is gonna be CC'ed or not, so I can just blindly follow his lead for today.



Would like to sheep the monkey

[Lukewarm]

He does not. He's electing to not partake in the hypoclaiming innos on the grounds that he thinks he found the babysitter and is announcing you as his main scumread. Or he's attempting to throw mud into the water that was fucked up by people not understanding my directions clearly. Or he's crumbing Babysitter to me. Or he picked up on a signal I sent to him that I'm the real psychologist. Or he's trying to pocket me into thinking he's acknowledging a signal I sent him and he's secretly scum playing on a level I haven't anticipated from him, which is nominally possible but not supported by prior experience.

Basically, 5D chess and not worth a CC if someone else is actually a psychologist, specifically because this is A50 we're talking about.

Still waiting on Pine & Gypyx to report in, but I kinda think my guilty is actually on the Babysitter, so I will announce a hypothetical guilty on T3 instead.

I am so confused

[Lukewarm]

I am so confused

Yeah... That's pretty normal for trying to read A50.

I wasn't confused until your post, but now my head hurts

[Lukewarm]

He does not. He's electing to not partake in the hypoclaiming innos on the grounds that he thinks he found the babysitter and is announcing you as his main scumread. Or he's attempting to throw mud into the water that was fucked up by people not understanding my directions clearly. Or he's crumbing Babysitter to me. Or he picked up on a signal I sent to him that I'm the real psychologist. Or he's trying to pocket me into thinking he's acknowledging a signal I sent him and he's secretly scum playing on a level I haven't anticipated from him, which is nominally possible but not supported by prior experience.

Basically, 5D chess and not worth a CC if someone else is actually a psychologist, specifically because this is A50 we're talking about.

Because you seem concerned about people CCing his psychologist claim. But also state that you tried to signal to him that you were psychologist (I actually thought I saw something to indicate that in your earlier post, but then assumed I was wrong because you appeared to believe A50.) But... if you really were the psychologist signaling to Almost50, you would not have any worry about a CC happening.

So you were town, but not psychologist, and sent a fake sign to Almost50 to tell him you are psychologist, who in response, openly claimed to be the psychologist, but you don't think that that is actually true either, and are now worried that the real psychologists might out themselves over the 5d chess the two of you are playing?

[Lukewarm]

Still waiting on Pine & Gypyx to report in, but I kinda think my guilty is actually on the Babysitter, so I will announce a hypothetical guilty on T3 instead.

I am so confused

I don't know how you could get confused reading the quoted post. It clearly says "I have a guilty, but I think it might be a fake guilty on the actual babysitter. So INSTEAD (of declaring my check target) I decided to claim a HYPOTHETICAL guilty on T3". I do NOT have a guilty on T3. I did not target T3. I targeted someone else and I'm not exposing them today. Ask me again tomorrow -if I'm still alive- and I might give you a better explanation.

I was not confused by you. I was confused by Bingle

[Lukewarm]

But I am good now.

[Lukewarm]

I thought Bingle's post made sense. What was confusing about it?

Because I did not understand the argument on why the real psychologist would not CC Almost 50 if he was fake claiming.

And I am 100% the psychologist, and I was debating counter claiming A50, and wanted to know why I shouldn't. But now I know I shouldn't (for some reason I still don't quite understand), so I am not counter claiming him, and so I won't be claiming psychologist today.

Spoiler:

What I wanted to add is many of you are way to easy to be manipulated by scum. Like, Luke's string of responses make it 100% clear he's not the Psychologist.

Am I doing this right now Almost 50?

[Lukewarm]

I thought Bingle's post made sense. What was confusing about it?

Because I did not understand the argument on why the real psychologist would not CC Almost 50 if he was fake claiming.

And I am 100% the psychologist, and I was debating counter claiming A50, and wanted to know why I shouldn't. But now I know I shouldn't (for some reason I still don't quite understand), so I am not counter claiming him, and so I won't be claiming psychologist today.

Spoiler:

What I wanted to add is many of you are way to easy to be manipulated by scum. Like, Luke's string of responses make it 100% clear he's not the Psychologist.

Am I doing this right now Almost 50?

I think you are just scum. Outright scum for wanting to counter claim then retracting.

I will take your spot and be claiming psychologist and I have innocent on VFP.

[Lukewarm]

I know I started it, but I don't think I like this fake-fake claiming game

[Lukewarm]

wooo uh, i forgot this game for a while not gonna lie, and these last three posts scare me ngl

could anyone say like in 3 lines what happenned?

also wanted to do this iirc VOTE: VFP

A50 claimed psychologist, and said he thought he landed on the Babysitter, so was not going to out his result.

I suggested that I was waiting for someone to potentially counter claim, but Bingle said that if there was a real psycologist out there, they should not counter claim against Almost50 (still not sure I agree)

Almost50 said that some of us were newbs, being to obvious on whether or not we were psychologists, so I fake claimed Psycologist as a joke - Grandpa followed suit.

[Lukewarm]

Before that me and Grandpa both suggested that Pooky might have bussed Drap. Almost50 once again correctly accused me of being a newb, and that push kinda stopped.

Over all, I think we are waiting for all prodded players to join back in before much more can really happen.

[Lukewarm]

[quote="In post 956, PookyTheMagicalBear"] i'll just sheep bingle probly.
/quote]
I am more comfortable sheeping Almost50 then Bingle, can we all sheep Almost50?

[Lukewarm]

i'll just sheep bingle probly.

I am more comfortable sheeping Almost50 then Bingle, can we all sheep Almost50?

[Lukewarm]

bingle is like a scumcatching god

except for in the games where he is scum

[Lukewarm]

wooo uh, i forgot this game for a while not gonna lie, and these last three posts scare me ngl

could anyone say like in 3 lines what happenned?

also wanted to do this iirc VOTE: VFP

A50 claimed psychologist, and said he thought he landed on the Babysitter, so was not going to out his result.

I suggested that I was waiting for someone to potentially counter claim, but Bingle said that if there was a real psycologist out there, they should not counter claim against Almost50 (still not sure I agree)

Almost50 said that some of us were newbs, being to obvious on whether or not we were psychologists, so I fake claimed Psycologist as a joke - Grandpa followed suit.

ah okay, well i agree with bingle on that one

wdym by "grandpa followed suit"?

After i joke claimed psychologist, he claimed psychologist as well. then immediately claimed baby sitter. So I joke claimed, he followed suit, I said I did not mean to start a trend

[Lukewarm]

i'll just sheep bingle probly.

I am more comfortable sheeping Almost50 then Bingle, can we all sheep Almost50?

interesting priority, why exactly?

Because for me, Almost50 is a higher TR then Bingle. Feel better about sheeping a TR then a NR

[Lukewarm]

Prod received, but I’m afraid I’m basically just prodging again

As mentioned, I’ll have more time after tomorrow once my move is complete

Good luck with the move!

[Lukewarm]

Prod received, but I’m afraid I’m basically just prodging again

As mentioned, I’ll have more time after tomorrow once my move is complete

pine said the same thing but dipped

hope ur not like my dad

Pine has made 2 posts. Mena has made 74.
I am happy to give him the benefit of the doubt here.

[Lukewarm]

Big tinfoil hat energy

[Lukewarm]

Why are the Pine and Mena wagons stalling?

Now seeking for a replacement for Pine.

[Lukewarm]

Most oof VFP's posts have literaly just been one liners that don't advance the game at all.

I mean VFP's mason hunting accusation led to a lot of discussion about Drap. Do you think this exchange would come from scum partners?

I changed my mind on Drapion.
VOTE: ProfessorDrapion

What made you change your mind on me?

Scum want to find the masons here and I think you're trying to do exactly that.

I personally had been pushing on Drap, and then shifted my attention away from him and started pushing you(375 - case against you, 383 - vote against you). But then, VFP made 385 , and it pulled me back to Drap (I tunneled on this accusation for the rest of the day lol).

Imo, if Drap had flipped town, then I could see VFP as scum, trying to keep discussion on Drap, potentially to stop the discussion me and Grandpa were starting up oven you being scum.

But since Drap flipped scum, I am feeling pretty good about VFP being town.

[Lukewarm]

Is this game just stagnant? I'm on page like 25

I feel like we reached a point where we decided that we really needed to hear from you (well, Pines replacement) before we did anything else, and so we have been in a holding pattern for a bit.

It is hard to sort everyone when 1 player has 2 total posts lol

[Lukewarm]

Every single post coming from Grandpa feels like there is more and more tinfoil hat energy behind it. And like I disagree with almost every logical deduction they make, and find it hard to follow the threads that are trying to lay out and point at.

But like, is newbie scum really gonna be in here, having by far the highest post count (which is compounded by the fact that he, by far, makes the longest posts), spouting wild logical mumbo jumbo?

Personally, I feel like it is more likely that he is newbie town, way overthinking every possible combination of scum teams, and trying really really hard to solve, and getting stuck in a lot of tin foil hat "but if X is true, then that must mean Y, which means J. And if X and J are true, then we can conclude Q." Because it also feels like he thinks that he can't just deduce "I think that this person is scum." Like he is only satisfied if he can figure out the entire team all at once, even on Day 1.

I mean, if this is a newbie scum tactic, spouting the wildest lines of deductive reasoning, and hoping everyone just looks past it, then hats off to him I guess

[Lukewarm]

Grandpa Mo or Menlaque today

If we are choosing between these two, I am leaning towards Mena. - I have Grandpa as a town read

VOTE: Mena

This is awfully go with the flow. Do you have a solve at this point or?

I ended day 1 with a scum read on Mena, and a town read on Not_Mafia.

So my town read suggested we vote out my scum read. Went with it.

I will say that my read on Mena has softened because I could see some of what I was scum reading him for being caused by IRL stress. So he has drifted from scum to null, at least until he comes back and rejoins Day 2

[Lukewarm]

I am reaching the point where I think I am going to have to just skim over Grandpa's posts. They are so long. They are so red. They are so confusing.

Spoiler:

and they are so adamant that they won't chance any of those things even if people ask nicely

Grandpa, I am going to leave you with a town lock read unless one of my other Town reads starts making a case against you.

I don't want to be rude, or mean or anything. But like, I am on this site to have fun, and trying to parse through all of your super long/dense posts just... is not fun

[Lukewarm]

Really not liking the replacement. VOTE: Johnny
If this is town the VFP is scum.

Okay, so I am gonna be busy for a lot of today, but will be back for a closer look this evening. Just doing a quick skim during my break, and this posts stood out to me. Feels like scum trying to link miselims, and honestly not sure how he came to this conclusion. Like VFP is not the loudest pusher on Jonny, and Johnny has been pushing Grandpa over VFP. Over all, confused by this post if coming from town.

Still not sure how I feel about Jonny atm. Will need to give the thread a closer look later, before I can vote.

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I think that there is exactly 1 scum between T3 and Johnny.

If I had to choose an elim today, I think I am leaning T3. Mainly because I had a scum read on T3 for most of Day 1 and because of 1134, but to a lesser extent, because a50 is pushing it, and he is my strongest TR at the moment.

Spoiler:

Also, would feel bad about eliming the replace in so quickly

VOTE: T3

[Lukewarm]

find it fascinating that it went from 0 votes to functionally E-2 overnight. (GPa is offwagon, but might as well be on wagon for how clear that progression is. I think you've been a positive influence on the thread since your rep in.

You did not post who you thought we should vote because you were worried we would sheep you too much. So we sheeped almost50 instead

[Lukewarm]

Okay, I think that there is exactly 1 scum between T3 and Johnny.

If I had to choose an elim today, I think I am leaning T3. Mainly because I had a scum read on T3 for most of Day 1 and because of 1134, but to a lesser extent, because a50 is pushing it, and he is my strongest TR at the moment.

Spoiler:

Also, would feel bad about eliming the replace in so quickly

VOTE: T3

BRUH R U KIDDING ME. pls give me credit ;-;

i literally said this !!!

Give you credit?

Bruh. Your comments had nothing to do with my read? If anything, you said a lot of things that contradict my own position

Spoiler:

honestly, hopefully im not wrong again but there is no way this fucking flips town.

I am not this convinced. I actually think T3 is more likely to flip scum, and therefore I think it is more likely that Johnny is Town

Really not liking the replacement. VOTE: Johnny
If this is town the VFP is scum.

Okay, so I am gonna be busy for a lot of today, but will be back for a closer look this evening. Just doing a quick skim during my break, and this posts stood out to me. Feels like scum trying to link miselims, and honestly not sure how he came to this conclusion. Like VFP is not the loudest pusher on Jonny, and Johnny has been pushing Grandpa over VFP. Over all, confused by this post if coming from town.

Still not sure how I feel about Jonny atm. Will need to give the thread a closer look later, before I can vote.

Yea... I was thinking about if Johnny flips town, then there HAS to be mafia between VFP and T3 and I linked that earlier.

Again, we are approaching this differently. You are starting with Johnny. I am starting with 1134 is super fucking scummy, and so much so that it stood out to me on a brief scan

And like, even if some of our thoughts are aligned, that does not mean I thought them because you happened to get to the thread faster then me, because, like, we are reading the same thread???

[Lukewarm]

also T3 has been like scummy limbait in every game ive ever played with him so its not even alignment indicative behavior when it happens lol

this is sorta true lol...

but i scumread them day 1. was the ONLY one who brought a scumcase on them. wanted to vote them EoD day 1. wanted to vote them early day 2 before pine comes in. idk bout others. idk why everyone is giving a50 the credit lol.

And why you out here lying?

I

convinced

you

that T3 was scummy Day 1 lmao

Spoiler: This post probably won't help the town solve, so if you are not Grandpa you can skip this spoiler :lol:

The only read you posted on T3 before I listed him as scummy:

Okay. So the only real townread I agree with you here is T3.

and then I come in with my read list

My current reads are

Scum Lean

T3
Professor Drapion

Oh, and look, its

me making a case against T3

- 290 and

me pointing out suspicious things from T3 again

373

And look. Here

you are QUOTING ME,

the first time you seems even the slightest bit suspicious of T3

VOTE: Lukewarm. His tone feels forced , and I'm not liking th defense.

I do think Lukewarm had a good defense I'll have to think on it.

??

I am pretty sure my defense was the same before and after post 258. What changed your mind?

Well from my perspective you had a fair assessment in your quote which in my definition different than defense. I don't know what T3 is talking about here honestly.

And look, me again, responding to you trying to convince you that it was scummy - 375 and even a vote from me 383

And AFTER I posted that case / vote

ok im actually thinking there might be scum between luke and t3

Huhhh. Looks like I convinced you of something here. Like your entire scum read on T3 came from me pointing things out to you.

pls give me credit ;-;

But not really. I don't want credit for your reads. Just realize that we are all reading the same things, and all working together to find the scum team anyways. So it doesn't matter who made any given read first lmao. And not everyone is constantly thinking of where certain things originated. Like here. Where you forgot that I am the one who convinced you that T3 was scum. But it really shouldn't matter imo

[Lukewarm]

@ProfDrapion, I just think T3's entrance was genuine emotionally

it's very simple and straightforward but also like the type of slightly scummy posting scum tends to want to avoid

when I look for scum entrances I look for the posters who are trying to make themselves look good

I mean it’s NAI mostly, scum or town can say that.
It’s just that I don’t find it as a good entrance compared to others.
I do have to agree with you that scum may try and go for the LAMIST play.
(As in try and look Townie as much as they can)

like why is drap shading t3 to dann here lol

This could easily be textbook distancing. Just went back over Drap's ISO, and he never shades T3 over ANYTHING except for his very first post (and even in the post you quoted called it NAI )

So I decided to look over every single time ProfessorDrap stated any opinion one way or another on T3

Spoiler:

WTF VOTE: pooky

Nice entrance.

T3’s entrance wasn’t entirely bad but it was definitely not a great entrance. I’ll probably watch this slot and it’s progression towards Pooky.

T3’s isn’t entirely wolfy but it just isn’t a good entrance I feel

Still observing Pooky and T3 carefully.

Professor’s Reads

ProfessorDrapion

Bingle

Menalque

Dannflor

GrandpaMo

VFP

Almost50

PookyTheMagicalBear

T3

ManWithNoName
Pine

Gypyx

Lukewarm

Pretty bog standard distancing imo. FoS your partner for something small, that could never result in them getting voted out (like their very first post / RVS vote). Put them in your scum leans, but with other people listed as scummier then them so you can FoS your partner, but push other people.

UNTIL.

I start making a case against T3, and Grandpa believes me, and both of us vote T3. Now what does Professor Drap say? (Grandpa's case/vote was 498)

I’m still thinking T3 is Town but I’m also not entirely confident in that.

Like where did that come from?

[Lukewarm]

In summary Pooky, I don't buy that Drap shaded T3 too much for them to be partners

[Lukewarm]

ok why does scum t3 shoot dann when dann is TRing him?

Idk... pr hunting?

Why does the Professor FoS T3, but then pass on the chance to vote him, and even lightly disagree with a case being built against him?

[Lukewarm]

[Professor, T3, Pooky] scum team?

[Lukewarm]

Pretty sure this is E1. I'm VT.

Very Unofficial Vote Count

T3 (3): Almost50, JohnnyFarrar, Lukewarm
JohnnyFarrar (5): PookyTheMagicalBear, GrandpaMo, T3, Not_Mafia, VFP,
VFP (2): Gypyx, Menalque,

Not Voting (1): Bingle

With 11 alive, it takes 6 to shove someone’s head into an energy core.

Soooo. You were not at E-1, or even E-2, lol

[Lukewarm]

@Almost50.

Why are you so sure that Johnny is town? I am on the fence about hammer or not hammering, but your confidence that he is town is giving me pause. What am I missing?

[Lukewarm]

Bingle, Almost50, and Johnny are all saying that we should not hammer Johnny. They cannot all 3 be scum. So I am trying to figure out what Almost50 and Bingle are thinking and why they are both trying to derail this wagon.

[Lukewarm]

Eh, fuck it.

VOTE: Johnny

[Lukewarm]

I don't think I could have gotten Mena to reevaluate on you, so you probably just won the moment you repped in tho, tbh.

The dead chat definitely said the game was over the moment Ydra repped in

[Lukewarm]

luke, don't post please!! <3 (the game's technically over but it's a courtesy thing :3)

Sorry for this - this was literally my first game where I died before endgame, so I did not know

[Lukewarm]

Also, my bad for very vocally Town Reading Grandpa for the whole game.

I finally realized that I should not be town reading him the same night I died, and even mentioned it in the Lovers chat, but then the mafia got to me before I could put it into the main thread :/

[Lukewarm]

Also, no redaction from me in the lover thread.

[Lukewarm]

@Grandpa, I think that your playstyle was so obviously anti-town, that I assumed it could not actually be coming from the scum team for a long time. And I was like, no he must just be bad!town. I never followed though with the repeated suggestions to meta you, I generally avoid doing that unless an important decision falls to me, like hitting Elo, but I imagine that I would have flipped my read on you earlier if I did that.

[Lukewarm]

Well done scum, thanks Lend for modding.
Lukewarm was the best mason buddy I every had!

Wow. "Mason Buddy," here I was thinking we were Lovers

I definitely enjoyed having the Lovers chat with you too. It is so nice to be able to look at someone elses messages and not have to question them.

[Lukewarm]

Thanks for modding Lend

[Lukewarm]

I am actually having second thoughts on hard TRing grandpa tho... Like at this point it is starting to feel like he is purposefully clogging the thread.

Grandpa
but mena if you actually read and still find yourself confused... please point them out!! i am willing to explain in depth for you.

This is the line that pinged me as "he is asking for more excuses to clog the thread"

Me, mere moments before my death.

Sad I never got that thought into the thread