Open 809: Charge Me Up! [Over]

[MathBlade]

Hello awesome people. Gonna skim. Looking at night results seems we are either missing the NK or scum tried to shoot Not Mafia or the person he shot. Anyone wanna point me in the right direction? Gonna iso the dead people for temp reads.

[MathBlade]

Forgive me for asking never seen midnight modifier what is it?

I can’t find it on the wiki

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Oh found it on the setup page it’s a regular desperado cool.

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hmmm not sure I agree with that solve lol you have flea that low?

I doubt you'll die, if I keep you in my jail... you'll survive

k thanks bb <33

dont worry ill save you n1

remember how i said i was fine with nolim because we have evens?

yeah that still applies.

yeah, no elim, desperado and scum shoot and we're back on even...

look at you softing shhh

Midnight desperado who? idk how Grandpa died n1.... shhhhhhh

okay at this point, i think im dying night one lmfao so i wanna continue my legacy for a sec.


town i think we win by this gamesolve voting pattern T3 >>> Flea >>> Not Mafia >>> DMG >>> Yessir >>> STD >>> Art

I think there is scum between DMG and Yessir.

This assumes Koba, Flow, Andante, and Moz are town.

Which of these is most likely?

[MathBlade]

I've just read pages 1-4 and I don't see anything AI. I did realize N_M got NK'd on N1 though and that makes me both sad and angry.

FoS A50 you’re better than that.

[MathBlade]

Going over NM’s ISO I think he probably shot Andante so Andante is probably town.

[MathBlade]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

I don’t like this post. Assuming Andante is town, NDMath is kinda putting out a hopeless vibe. He should have either been wagoning or pushing Andante harder or trying to find someone else who could have been elimmed. The shade of T3 is also horrible.

VOTE: NDMath

[MathBlade]

VOTE: yessiree

I could see ND/flow/yes?

[MathBlade]

Gonna setup for critical role and check back at break. Will catch up more later but PoE pool is ND/Flow/yes/A50 would do any of those atm.

Pedit:

Will catch up more later but cool.

Any parts you wanna recommend? I just skimmed where A wagon turned to T3. Trying to find the how that happened so fast.

[MathBlade]

Just took a look at the VC Koba what are the odds ND is bussing Yes?

Gonna read later just it’s odd. Doesn’t jive with my theory unless it’s a bus.

[MathBlade]

Yup because you tunnel about as much as I do.

[MathBlade]

Reads like shade to me. I don’t think what T3 is scum indicative (but) we need to get an elim in. The implication is T3 is an acceptable elim kinda a have to.

Why are you focused more on defense instead of convincing people yes is scum? Seems odd you seemed more focused on me than getting support for your wagon.

[MathBlade]

Call me Blade or Pi.

Either works.

New math and old math is confusing.

[MathBlade]

Still the most accurate number if suited at the right purpose.

Convince me you’re not scum with ND.

[MathBlade]

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86090&p=12732171#p12732171 this was the reason why i couldn't explain my flow read earlier, flow had just f lipped traitor here and his behavior here was similar to there

Throwing spaghetti at the wall.

Someone throwing spaghetti at the wall doesn’t go back and clarify vagueness. That’s like the opposite imho.

[MathBlade]

Who is scum? What are your reads?

Moonlogic. It’s awesome. (Translation I already explained a bit and a mix of that and vibes)

[MathBlade]

*back from lunch break*

Who is scum?

just look at your role PM

What are your reads?

I don't do explosive-diarrhoea-style read walls, it's just not how I roll. I give them out in bids n pieces

Moonlogic. It’s awesome. (Translation I already explained a bit and a mix of that and vibes)

You explained? All I could find was you saying ND/flow/yess could be a team, and asking if ND could be bussing me. Am i missing something?

1) I did. There’s no scum. Maybe you should check yours and just tell me who. Chainsaws like this are dumb.
You’re not even voting me.

2) I didn’t ask for a read wall just reads. That’s a misrep and an attempt to dodge. Give us something to show you pretend to care. I mean if you can’t then more power to us that you scumclaim.

3) The explanation is that I think ND is scum. ND isn’t pushing you and just defended himself rather than pushing a scumread.

[MathBlade]

Because your reads are shit?

Help me “bus” yes then or explain. (Bus is in quotes as I can’t bus)

If I had two votes I would be voting ND and Yes but alas I do not.

[MathBlade]

I won't eliminate Math today.
ND, sure.

Math will actually do something with that slot, which I want to give a chance to get a read.

I can also lim Robert still.

I'm not sure if A50 and Math have been told, but Flow is claiming Friendly Neibour.
Flow is probably scum but I'm giving benefit of the doubt to prove this.
I've also requested that of we have a Watcher they sit on Flow to either confirm a scum or town here. This is to prevent an "oh no I was RB" situation. I'll give up a Watcher for scum.
Andante is town. Flea town. Dk town.

Oh then what’s his inno from N1?

We can then just town block this stuff.

[MathBlade]

I come from a site where the meta for PR is to act suspiciously on purpose

Here it is less suspiciously more “act in a way to not be NK’d but not antitown”

[MathBlade]

I've also requested that of we have a Watcher they sit on Flow to either confirm a scum or town here. This is to prevent an "oh no I was RB" situation.

Yeah so no other town should be on me

Assuming you’re telling the truth:

Town watcher/tracker either should be on you.

Watcher in case you get shot we know the scum.
Tracker to figure out who you visit.

If there is a scum and a tracker then if they kill flow it’s a 1v1.

[MathBlade]

I won't eliminate Math today.
ND, sure.

Math will actually do something with that slot, which I want to give a chance to get a read.

I can also lim Robert still.

I'm not sure if A50 and Math have been told, but Flow is claiming Friendly Neibour.
Flow is probably scum but I'm giving benefit of the doubt to prove this.
I've also requested that of we have a Watcher they sit on Flow to either confirm a scum or town here. This is to prevent an "oh no I was RB" situation. I'll give up a Watcher for scum.
Andante is town. Flea town. Dk town.

Where is this claim?

[MathBlade]

I won't eliminate Math today.
ND, sure.

Math will actually do something with that slot, which I want to give a chance to get a read.

I can also lim Robert still.

I'm not sure if A50 and Math have been told, but Flow is claiming Friendly Neibour.
Flow is probably scum but I'm giving benefit of the doubt to prove this.
I've also requested that of we have a Watcher they sit on Flow to either confirm a scum or town here. This is to prevent an "oh no I was RB" situation. I'll give up a Watcher for scum.
Andante is town. Flea town. Dk town.

Oh then what’s his inno from N1?

We can then just town block this stuff.

No one cause I have limited amount

...that doesn’t make sense.

If you have a limited amount and you’re a friendly neighbor why not use it n1?

Then you get an instant guilty or inno.

[MathBlade]

Because your reads are shit?

Help me “bus” yes then or explain. (Bus is in quotes as I can’t bus)

If I had two votes I would be voting ND and Yes but alas I do not.

w o w, has McToughGuy entered the building?

You should look in a mirror, tough guy, because that's what I think about your "reads" (reads is in quotes since they're fake reads).

You picked one post from NDMath yesterday as the sole basis for your scumread on him, one vote from him on me as your sole basis of his "bus" and then picked 2 other players to be in your poe pool that were generally already been scumread by other slots. Seems to me you just faked a bunch of low quality reads devoid of any deeper thought process.

There, that's one of my reads. I've met my quota for the weekend, boss. Now if you'll excuse me...

I was skimming to get feet wet. Found a post that pinged me.
ND hasn’t done anything to elim you or tried to do anything. In a day with competing wagons that makes ND more than likely scum.
Combine this with just his vote on you and sit makes that a probable bus.
Why are you intent on attacking me versus someone who is actively pushing you?
Do you townread ND?
Where is this shade coming from?
Why do you have a “limit” of how much townieness you do? There shouldn’t be a cap.

[MathBlade]

Target someone at night.
Mod tells X you’re town.
X if they don’t announce they are likely scum.
X if they announce it then they are likely town.

I was thinking loyal neighborizer
Old guy problems.

[MathBlade]

Thing is, RVS is crucial and I know a lot of good players will base their early reads based on players entries.

For me, I'm always scummy on them when I'm late

VOTE: Dark Magical Girl anyway. There can only be one magician!

I don’t like this vote early. Especially if flow is scum. Flow isn’t worth a push today due to the FN claim but if they don’t confirm themselves by day before Elo flow’s worth revisiting.

[MathBlade]

Thing is, RVS is crucial and I know a lot of good players will base their early reads based on players entries.

For me, I'm always scummy on them when I'm late

VOTE: Dark Magical Girl anyway. There can only be one magician!

is that so? I guess we are gonna have to die then cause there's two of us just on this account

Is Dark Matter Girl a hydra or a person with multiples? (I think that’s the right term if not apologies) it matters for how I tone read them.

[MathBlade]

merely asking a question

ok but it looked like a serious question, to which she gave a serious answer. So I find it odd you chose to respond to her the way you did instead of just responding to her answer

how serious is that vote ^

this is a pretty weird post to drop then just leave

it's weird that i have a life outside of mafiascum?

are you the awkward scum?

I like this opening push from yes. I want to see more of yes trying to do things. They can be null.

[MathBlade]

Paused on where Koba claimed PR. There have been multiple softs/claims of PR from N1 during my skim. Pretty confused why the N1 shot died unless they thought he was going to heal A. So A is lock town.

Since Koba and Flow and A are all claimed to be/are combinations of PR/likely/conf town that means an elim there isn’t beneficial. Gonna seem like a game of chess.

[MathBlade]

Thanks Dragon.

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Thing is, RVS is crucial and I know a lot of good players will base their early reads based on players entries.

For me, I'm always scummy on them when I'm late

VOTE: Dark Magical Girl anyway. There can only be one magician!

is that so? I guess we are gonna have to die then cause there's two of us just on this account

I raise you with IRL plurality and there's usually 3 or 4 of us watching and building thoughts. mwahahah. #ultimateHydra

VOTE: green crayons

I remember playing with you ages ago...

Early townread on dark magician for good posting, clearly the superior sorcerer to other sorcerer's.

That's because I'm not a sorcerer, I'm a Magician... specifically a Sky Mage Samurai. (The kanji is weird to translate, noble/scholar/respected person with warrior conations)

i'm not the only one who has no clue what flow trap is trying to say, right?

Yup, I get what they're meaning.

Flow Trap may be actually be town.
That said, I'm keeping my vote here for now.

EWWWWW
VOTE: VFP

I think Flea and VFP are opposite alignments. This doesn’t seem like faer’s scum posting.

[MathBlade]

Dk probably scum then.
Good to know.

astonishingly bad take - whats sad is I think you're town here and scum is taking advantage of your foolish play thus far based on how I'm reading the game state right now.

Nice way to call me scum koba

VOTE: VFP

ND+VFP also possible.

[MathBlade]

dmg light scumpings too

Kinda wondering if Koba was buddying me.
Not seeing DMG scumpings at all.

[MathBlade]

I think Dragons just made the VFP town block.
Scum going to be at a panic wanting to break this now.

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG

Yeah I am good with this.

Considering iirc if I can math right
14 alive at start >> 3 dead outside becomes 11 alive.

I am not in the list so 10.

Ten players left take away 3 scum leaves 7.
That list has six.

While it’s possible that it’s an all town list it’s not probable and with limited to no justification for the block VFP is looking bad.

[MathBlade]

VOTE: lukewarm

for the lukewarm takes

Koba please tell me you’re not scum.

Pushing you sucks :/

You’re really feeling scummy when I read this.

[MathBlade]

ND scum number 2?

ND can just be a newb.

I don’t think VFP and ND are aligned and a VFP wagon makes more sense.

[MathBlade]

VFP
Dk
Flow
Flea
Dragon
DMG
NM

Moz
Artemiana
Mini
Yessiree
Green

Lukewarm
ND

Please don’t use colors like this or post a non colored list in spoilers. It’s hard to read for my old foagie eyes.

[MathBlade]

numerous people not understanding flowtrap's joke is kinda sad

94
I found this post townie, unlike the other players who have given thoughts on it.
Lukewarm is in a mindset of looking for what is protown behavior vs not. Specifically the more passive tone is what makes it read as actual thoughts versus scum trying to display a 'town mindset' to me.

VOTE: yes

I forgot this was a player and was very confused for a minute.

ok yall gonna think im fucking crazy for this take but its def a proper vibe.

NDmath cannot be partners with Lukewarm - i can explain later if needed.

I won't protest lol

SK is complete speculation btw but it is 14p...

Very confused how you got this far without seeing the alignment ratios. I question if that's a mistake town can make.

Yes town does this

[MathBlade]

lukewarm could be scum

Dk probably town, but if they're scum then lukewarm is definitely scum

flow trap and VFP are my biggest townreads

Ewww just no.

I am putting them back in null.

That read is just terrible.

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no there isn't - alignment was randed before we even got roles - setup explicitly says this.

I have a thought here not sure I can say it so just leaving this here to see who reads me and pokes me after the mod gets back to me.

[MathBlade]

See, my prod request worked.
And I've given Mini a lead to go on.

I'm like a hero to this town.

Damn I wish I had a vig shot...or maybe I do and I am shooting from the hip at dusk.

Who knows?

[MathBlade]

Hmmm not really sure I can say what I want but it may be relevant left off page 8.

I don’t like VFP stating a block yet not doing much outside it. Likely has people he’s sucked up to and probably a buddy.

How VFP is operating their block is not how a town block works.

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VFP would also have to add A to his town block which makes it too crowded. I don’t see VFP freaking out or reassessing though.

Someone explain why VFP is town?

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Math has until tomorrow to vote properly!

Ooh yes. Threaten me rather than explain your reads. That will clearly get me to townread you /s

[MathBlade]

Responding inline underline is me

Reads like shade to me. I don’t think what T3 is scum indicative (but) we need to get an elim in. The implication is T3 is an acceptable elim kinda a have to.

Why are you focused more on defense instead of convincing people yes is scum? Seems odd you seemed more focused on me than getting support for your wagon.

I'm confused by the first paragraph, I was saying that T3's vote was fine because we need to get an elim in. I don't understand how you're getting that implication.
I'm also trying to better understand why you scumread me to get a read on you since your previous slotholder didn't do much.

I mean I broke it down grammatically word by word what was there. Considering VFP I am willing to let this go as arguing sentence structure is not helpful but it’s quite literally not what you said. I am an extremely literal person and that rubbed me the wrong way. While catching up VFP strikes me as the more likely scum here of you and VFP

Because your reads are shit?

Help me “bus” yes then or explain. (Bus is in quotes as I can’t bus)

If I had two votes I would be voting ND and Yes but alas I do not.

w o w, has McToughGuy entered the building?

You should look in a mirror, tough guy, because that's what I think about your "reads" (reads is in quotes since they're fake reads).

You picked one post from NDMath yesterday as the sole basis for your scumread on him, one vote from him on me as your sole basis of his "bus" and then picked 2 other players to be in your poe pool that were generally already been scumread by other slots. Seems to me you just faked a bunch of low quality reads devoid of any deeper thought process.

There, that's one of my reads. I've met my quota for the weekend, boss. Now if you'll excuse me...

VOTE: yessiree

I can no longer suffer this scum to live another day.

Can you elaborate? I thought this was one of yes's better posts.

Paused on where Koba claimed PR. There have been multiple softs/claims of PR from N1 during my skim. Pretty confused why the N1 shot died unless they thought he was going to heal A. So A is lock town.

Since Koba and Flow and A are all claimed to be/are combinations of PR/likely/conf town that means an elim there isn’t beneficial. Gonna seem like a game of chess.

Who is A? If it's Andante why do you think they would've been the preferred nk night 1??

I apologize. I ran thoughts together. It seems like VFP is running off a town block. Using how town blocks are supposed to be used VFP should be freaking out where his reads are wrong or hypothesizing the exact scum team based off townreading nearly everyone else alive. VFP should be leading/pushing and instead all VFP does is some half assed threat. Koba and A50 know me and know that if you threaten me that will only cause me to look at you more not less. Not sure what VFP’s goal is here but I don’t see any solving going on. Just random “x is town” posts.

@VFP who is scum?

And yes A is Andante. That wasn’t towards A being the nightkill N1 but it’s more towards A is lock town and VFP isn’t leveraging that or trying to work with A and simple math means VFP should be happy/excited/doing something.

[MathBlade]

I won't eliminate Math today.
ND, sure.

Math will actually do something with that slot, which I want to give a chance to get a read.

I can also lim Robert still.

I'm not sure if A50 and Math have been told, but Flow is claiming Friendly Neibour.
Flow is probably scum but I'm giving benefit of the doubt to prove this.
I've also requested that of we have a Watcher they sit on Flow to either confirm a scum or town here. This is to prevent an "oh no I was RB" situation. I'll give up a Watcher for scum.
Andante is town. Flea town. Dk town.

Take also here.

VFP says they won’t eliminate me today.
Then they say “I have until tomorrow to vote properly”.

There’s nothing different except I suspected VFP. There’s not even a wagon.
Hell people could have just written it off as “Math is being weird”.
This is a huge overreaction and VFP could be sorting me and instead does that.

I am trying to figure out why VFP is townblock ing so badly and just spamming readslists rather than hunting.

So yeah Dragon those posts don’t show effort to me.

I could take the player list and pick names to be town, that doesn’t equal effort.

[MathBlade]

@Mathblade: Just give me the tldr when you're done. If you decide I am part of the scum tem let me know who my partners are and I will bus. Thanks (that's as much as I can give a fart)

That probably won’t be practical anytime soon.

I have a lot to do this weekend and I work. It’s infinitely easier for me to post thoughts as I read them.

[MathBlade]

VFP says they won’t eliminate me today.
Then they say “I have until tomorrow to vote properly”.

I think it was clear that is wasn't serious. But the fact you are trying to over react this isn't looking good on your end so far.

I am trying to figure out why VFP is townblock ing so badly and just spamming readslists rather than hunting.

If you read my ISO you will see this.
Don't be lazy Math, either read it all or don't try to build a case around parts that your favour.

No? I caught you in a contradiction and now it’s “not serious”. That’s not how this works.

And I am reading in real-time versus ISOs. I find it helps more. It just takes time. I did skim your ISO and it’s devoid of hunting just read lists so hence my concern.

I am not “being lazy”. I am being realistic. I’ve read the start of the game to a point. I will then pick up later when I can while still responding to the latest. That’s how I roll.

[MathBlade]

FoS Raya. She keeps prodding people but isn't scum hunting herself. Feels like active lurking to me.

Dude you’re better than this.

I am halfway considering policying you.

[MathBlade]

lmao I have the worst migraine in the world right now and it gets worse when I look at the million words.... I'll change it to tiger font... ahhhhh I'll follow flow's vote though if flow has an idea of who they want, 1939 dragons still reads as town to me, I think there's high odds at least 1 that subbed in is scum

Then push someone and drive.

Ffs you’re very close to confirmed town do something.

[MathBlade]

I take you mean a scum "driven" wagon? Do you have cases aside from them voting Yessiree?

I did. I can't remember them other than the Robert slot.
Robert has been scum posting since joining in and just avoiding questions to not do anything.

I have a small town pile. Outside of that, most players are just being scummy.

Small town pile my ass. Your ISO last I left off is all the alive players almost

[MathBlade]

Official Vote Count 2.07

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Elimination

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate someone.

Yessiree

(3): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons

NDMath

(2): DkKoba, VFP

MathBlade

(2): flow trap, Andante

Robert M Hunter

(1): Flea the Magician

Save The Dragons

(1): Yessiree

VFP

(1): MathBlade

Not Voting

(1): Almost50

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-05 21:15:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

Based on this VC I think Yes flips town and Robert scum.

I know this contradicts scum in ND+yes but something doesn’t sit right with me.

[MathBlade]

Then do it.

You’ve been nigh on close to confirmed and should be driving because you might be dead if that’s true.

Use your status to be awesome and weird or brave and risky.

If you’re right we get scum.
If you’re wrong then we see who in your town block if any are sheeps.

Like please.

[MathBlade]

UNVOTE:
I'm cooking food, and will read the 2 new people in a bit. don't want this hammered while I'm away lol

You got it.

[MathBlade]

lol we'll see, I must consult flow and dragons

I was planning on following you so :I

If you’re town do something then. Give A something to work off of.

You’re supposedly a friendly neighbor which also makes you a high priority kill target.

Why are you not acting like each post is your last?

[MathBlade]

I caught you in a contradiction

And I am reading in real-time versus ISOs.

Small town pile my ass. Your ISO last I left off is all the alive players almost

Iron, meet knee.

Yes. If you look at the context I said I was reading real time versus in-depth ISOs. Your ISO up to that point has been nothing but reads lists. Why are you stretching so hard versus looking at your town block and seeing who is scummy and whether it’s still valid, unless of course I am right and it’s a who sucks up to you list?

[MathBlade]

Because I am on mobile 1984 from Flea is pretty much how to town and is so against faer scum meta if faer is scum I will literally scream into the void.

No one touches faer please? K thanks.

[MathBlade]

Faer in response to 1985 I have my own thoughts regarding the process I can’t say. I asked the mod. I do think Koba could possibly be scum but if they are it’s not for being evasive there. I do think all the PR claims are needing to be sorted. Some may be scum some may be VT attempting to eat a bullet and some may be actual PRs but I think openly hunting who is the actual PR is bad for town then we should be hunting who is scum in general.

Flow much as I get pings self resolves. Either a buddy has to speak up for him or he gets elimmed at d-1 if he’s never confirmed.The fact that scum shot what seems to me to be a doc crumb implies no blocking mechanism. Therefore I think this is a valid standard. Then if scum kill flow then we learn they wanted to kill flow more than Andante. Which then makes us look back at why. If they kill Andante more than flow that also tells us a why. So flow and Andante should be driving to give as much as possible and flow’s I wanna sheep mentality is nagl.

Koba’s PR claim has no substance as to what (and I am not fishing ffs) so if bears no weight on anything really.

[MathBlade]

Regarding 1986 It would be about the flow of conversation. DMG was pushing someone then that vote there felt weird. I don’t remember who and I am a bit sick but I would go back and relook.

[MathBlade]

Almost50 is super scummy, like, their ISO starts like "ok I'm gonna read" then they really don't make an effort, says stuff like

> Do you realize how boring it is to read when you don't even know what you're looking for? I needed a SCUM FLIP.
> Can someone point me to where cases were made and/or serious readlists were posted?
> Math is known to actually read upon replacement, so he is actually going to save me some trouble. I will simply follow his posts and I'd be all caught up.
- Like, don't you wanna read the slot he's subbing into or something??

> I saw 2 open slots and a bunch of replacements already happened and I thought I'd lend Raya a helping hand.
- I mean, if you sub in and do nothing, you're not helping anyone...

And then I really don't like the ISO, This is also DMG's slot, and DMG was pretty scummy... I'd say Almost50 is scum here

Flea isn’t scum for meta reasons. Look at schadd’s game that just finished for Flea scum. If you still think faer can be scum after that fine.

I could see a flow VFP a50 team and compromise on A50.

Let’s do that.

VOTE: Almost50

[MathBlade]

*blade good lol


and robert... is super bad lmao but I think Almost50 is the worst right now

I will take god tier town lmao.

Robert is pretty bad too.

Let’s just take all the non efforters and start elimming them.

They’ll eventually then have to try.

[MathBlade]

lol ok all good, I read this recent post first and was like, uhhh Almost50?? ahh you're voting them, all good!! and when he flips scum... flow/koba definitely has 1 cause they're trying to get ndmath first..

Probably one on ndmath after I pushed him.

Gut reads aren’t always right.

[MathBlade]

You were lurk sacky AF in the schadd game and I don’t remember a single read wall lol.

Maybe I am a bit tired from my cold but I don’t think you try hard as scum.

Care to show me a counter example faer?

[MathBlade]

Yes. If you look at the context I said I was reading real time versus in-depth ISOs. Your ISO up to that point has been nothing but reads lists. Why are you stretching so hard versus looking at your town block and seeing who is scummy and whether it’s still valid, unless of course I am right and it’s a who sucks up to you list?

I think ill add you into the pile with Dk and Flow for now of ignoring in game until I see something.
If you want to question a read then do so. I obviously have no idea where you are currently upto in my ISO so for you to be using it as an argument I suggest you read it all first.

There's a clear point that shows that my VFP block wasn't serious, where I even say that and I even comment on how it was handled in a minor way.
I'm sure you will go with "caught scum convenient joke hehahehiho!" But there was no pressure on me and no reason to do so.

As I said, if you're going to pretend to be proactive but be lazy overall, then I'm not going to put the effort into discussing why I'm right or wrong.

It will also make me want to just ignore any case you have on anyone because I won't trust your interests as either alignment.

I do find it strange you have jumped off voting me so easily though when I have given you nothing yet.

If you’re entire town block is a joke then your entire ISO is a joke. Your ISO (from where I am at) is nothing but that “joke”. And you’ve been focused on defending yourself versus poking scum.

There is still pressure on you VFP. I just don’t think you’ll be the wagon for today. That doesn’t mean there’s no pressure on you. That could change and you become the wagon today or this gets remembered for later. I moved my vote off of you because I don’t think it’s protown to continually scream you’re scum despite the fact I feel that at best someone who can’t stand by any posts they make is antitown AF but more than likely scum.

A50 scum is something I agree with A on and so makes sense for an elim today. But make no mistake I will hound you until you town it up or someone scums it up worse than you.

[MathBlade]

lol ok all good, I read this recent post first and was like, uhhh Almost50?? ahh you're voting them, all good!! and when he flips scum... flow/koba definitely has 1 cause they're trying to get ndmath first..

have you considered they are both scum?

you can push there, I'll keep pushing here. I wanna see how the wagons move.

It’s possible but not probable. A50 was okay to let things sit when I was pushing ND, making ND likely town. Don’t get me wrong their play kinda sucks but still is probably town based on others.

[MathBlade]

NDmath, almost50, and save the dragons makes sense as a scum team to me, especially if yesiree were to flip today as green

I am thinking VFP+Flow+A50 makes more sense.

If flow confirms themself maybe swap in Robert or you.

[MathBlade]

You were lurk sacky AF in the schadd game and I don’t remember a single read wall lol.

Maybe I am a bit tired from my cold but I don’t think you try hard as scum.

Care to show me a counter example faer?

Silent Star 3, my D1 play.

Fair enough. If my main PoE dies I will add you back in but I don’t think you’re scum.

[MathBlade]

Robert and Koba are reading as partners to me

Meh I don’t see this but would consider it much later if somehow we get to a 2 scum elo situation where we’ve eliminated like almost all other options. A50 I think makes sense as the elim today and then move forward and see.

I also have a spicy gambit in mind if flow can confirm themselves.

[MathBlade]

Why are people not listening to the likely town?

Let me put it this way:

Whoever you’re voting why is it a better vote than A50?

(Will catch up later)

[MathBlade]

Exactly. A50 is a much better elim even in the worse case we are wrong.

Andante gets his elim as lock town.

Then if scum kill say flow for example to prevent him confirming himself we keep a prob lock town in Adante for the next day.

But if scum kill Adante and flow doesn’t confirm himself then two days no confirm suspicion goes really high.

This also enables PRs to do what they need unimpeded.

If we elim ND or yes we are conceding control away from the town block which is not how town blocks work which means one if not both of ND/yes are likely town.

[MathBlade]

obv = obvious. here's the definition

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/obvious

if town votes on a town, the dead person wasn't obviously town.

you may think it was obvious they were town. but that does not make them obviously town. you are conflating the two.

end.

of.

discussion.

thank you for coming to my ted talk

there will be no questions

because the discussion is over.

and i will be ignoring people more than i have been if they decide to argue with me

?? Not sure how this is relevant.

I am talking Andante is almost certainly lock town and should be sheeped unless you can provide a better case.
If Andante said to elim me then I would still be the smart elim unless it was like clear Andante was on moonlogic and no way for me to be scum. I am not scum and it would be a bad elim I just don’t get why this came up.

[MathBlade]

mathblade and I are clear ty

Don’t get me wrong, I like it but how am I clear?

Btw looking into why scum kill flow here.

At worst flow confirms himself town and they kill him later

[MathBlade]

It’s kinda a silly kill with all the PR claims.

At worst flow confirms himself and you kill him later.

[MathBlade]

GDI! I said NO BUSSING YOU IDIOTS

this pretty much makes me think no scum were on the wagon

It’s possible but just wine.

Mainly you’re town from page 15. I don’t think scum DMG talks to a buddy like that

[MathBlade]

Official Vote Count 2.09

---

Elimination

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate someone.

Yessiree

(4): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons, Flea the Magician

NDMath

(4): DkKoba, VFP, flow trap, Andante

Almost50

(1): MathBlade

Save The Dragons

(1): Yessiree

Not Voting

(1): Almost50

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-05 21:15:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

What I find interesting is the yes wagon stuck around but the nd one dissipated. This means to me that at most between ND/Yes there is one scum. At least one has to be town otherwise we’d see probably a more even pull. <<This is a hypothesis

[MathBlade]

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

I wish if you’re town you slowplayed that honestly.

If you’re right and Koba is scum how they cleared me could have given hints to the PR makeup.

[MathBlade]

Blade, ND just claimed watcher on flow, and Koba visited

I am on mobile dude. Lol

[MathBlade]

Blade, ND just claimed watcher on flow, and Koba visited

I am on mobile dude. Lol

I mean lady sorry!

[MathBlade]

Why do you think scum!Koba tries to clear me out of the gate as scum?

Neither strategy makes sense for scum.

ND fake claiming a guilty on Koba seems dumb because we elim them the next day.
Koba faking a inno on me seems dumb when we said watchers on flow.

I just think Kona’s better than that. So I am confused.

[MathBlade]

mathblade and I are clear ty

VOTE: dkkoba

I'm 1-Shot Watcher, koba was the only visitor lol.

I'd imagine that {Robert, Yes, Flea} is the gamewinning poe since two bussers could have easily instead got yes or me elim'd yesterday.

I would pick yes here if you’re town and Koba is scum and failing that Robert.

I don’t see Flea as scum here and Flea plus Koba would be better mechanically than to kill flow.

[MathBlade]

So I am confused.

and I have no clue what you're going on about, nor do I care

Something is wrong. It’s too easy.

[MathBlade]

Why do you think scum!Koba tries to clear me out of the gate as scum?

Neither strategy makes sense for scum.

ND fake claiming a guilty on Koba seems dumb because we elim them the next day.
Koba faking a inno on me seems dumb when we said watchers on flow.

I just think Kona’s better than that. So I am confused.

Pretty sure it's a statement about you leading the wagon on A50 and trying to lump themself in too.

Possibly but they claimed PR early.
This could be a gambit from you attempting to take out a PR with your stock being bad yesterday it buys you another day and you’re scum with A50.

Koba + A50 or you+A50 or
Even spicier you+Koba+A50

[MathBlade]

how is it too easy?? DMG was a pretty universal sr... I know my TRs are town. flow and dragons are lock town. ride or die.

Flow only lock town
You me and STD probable town.

Guilties have a certain “umph” to them. There’s a certain give and take. It’s hard to explain but it doesn’t feel right

[MathBlade]

Either way we probably elim them but I still think this might be planned.

[MathBlade]

Where we're at so far~
Town Leans:
Dragons (#19, #40, #104)
Flea (#28)
mozamis (#47, #322)
VFP (#62)
NDMath (#108, #165)
Green Crayons (#155)

Scum Leans:
Dark Magician (#36, #72, #340)
DkKoba (#115, #190)
Lukewarm (#94, #194,#290, #324)
Not_Mafia (#146)


ehhhh???
yessiree (#39, #44)

I'm pretty sure Koba into yesiree is the solve, like, my reads haven't changed... I feel really good about my town leans. Robert is a lot scummier than mozam, and art had nothing to make the list. only TL that could be wrong is mozam. I still stand by this

Assume it’s Koba + yes. Why doesn’t yes, the more scumread slot, kill the watched player?

I mean we literally said watchers on flow.

[MathBlade]

why are you so unsure on flipping koba? koba was the only one to visit flow. flow died. really not hard here....

Because Koba wouldn’t kill a watched player when we announce it. They’d go for A or another top TR. they’d have to be having a really bad game. They read a lot and are good scum.

[MathBlade]

I'm desperadoing blade tonight

Go for it. You’ll be dead and we still have the elims and it removes paranoia about why you weren’t shot when you’re mechanically the better kill if you’re town.

[MathBlade]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

[MathBlade]

Scum won't kill me if there's a watcher on me. If they do pog

If I'm a watcher, I'll be on you like a hawk tonight, Flow!

Search the thread for watcher
It loads backwards it was said repeatedly

[MathBlade]

I mean we literally said watchers on flow.

What happened with that?

Imagine I am Koba.
I read the thread ...Hmmm watcher on flow.
Yeah I will have the least scumread player of our team kill flow.

I don’t see how scum kills flow here unless it’s intentional

I also don’t see a world where one of them is not scum.

So I am paranoid of a gambit where both are scum.

[MathBlade]

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

You should be claiming.

[MathBlade]

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

You should be claiming.

I don't frankly need to actually unless ndmath wants to hardclaim or retract their claim.

1 shot watcher sounds like a hard claim to me Koba.

So yes pretty sure you need to claim

[MathBlade]

yes my plan as scum is to a)try to divert a wagon on d1 on town b) help push a wagon away from probable town onto scum that ended up scumslipping, and also not explaining the way the setup works in scum pt

The latter was probably an genuine a50 mistake not a lack of explanation. Or was an intentional slip when it was realized he was going down over a50 or yes.

A50 is a smart scum

[MathBlade]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

[MathBlade]

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

I did and still do actually.

I said either neither made sense.

Koba claim

[MathBlade]

What really damns Koba is they disappeared.

We know they were online from trying to clear me.

Makes the ND+Koba combo viable here if it’s intentional

I'm confused what of this makes you think S/S.

also if ndmath wants to hardclaim, cool, but we aren't speedvoting me here because I am town and i want to use the discussion time.

Yes it's a hardclaim

Because I don’t see why Koba scum kills someone being watched

shhh make it seem like they have a chance to see if they end up spewing some teammates.

poor them shouldn't have confirmed themselves 100% scum from my pov.


now i can hunt for your partner without having to guess both

I can’t have a partner lol

[MathBlade]

oh wait mathblade, you totally forgot, i'm totally the one leading the kill here as scum!!

yes 100%


me over anyone else here that is my theoretical scum partner here.

i cant believe you didnt have doubt over this claim and rather just immediately went into "what if this is svs?"

I did and still do actually.

I said either neither made sense.

Koba claim

that can be a surprise later - if you're gonna rush my elimination here then you're playing anti-town because we ASBSOLUTELY should take the time to talk when we have a nice old 50/50 going on here.

also my claim doesnt matter here - its either me or ndmath. im not gonna pretend like you think a claim is gonna make me more "credible" when scum were able to easily get their own PR roles clearly

I am actually trying to prevent your speed elim and sort you both

[MathBlade]

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

You as scum don’t kill me.
You had me pocketed after you first pinged me.
I agree scum you doesn’t kill flow unless it’s a gambit or you’re having a really off day

[MathBlade]

nahh but ndmath really thought that he could frame me as:

leading kill

killing flow trap

not killing mathblade

like no?

You as scum don’t kill me.
You had me pocketed after you first pinged me.
I agree scum you doesn’t kill flow unless it’s a gambit or you’re having a really off day

you're inspiring town here and solving and have certain gates of logic that mean you would be the greatest threat to me at this boardstate.

I’m flattered. Now I have to do one as Koba scum ND town and you ducked up and are gonna kill me
Or bad Nd+Koba gambit
Or ND+? Failure

[MathBlade]

I haven’t heard a reason you shouldn’t be claiming here.

You said after it’s a hard claim and it is.

[MathBlade]

Just gonna watch Critical Role and come back later

[MathBlade]

Why claim a PR d1?

[MathBlade]

Official Vote Count 2.09

---

Elimination

With 11 votes in play, it takes 6 to eliminate someone.

Yessiree

(4): NDMath, Robert M Hunter, Save The Dragons, Flea the Magician

NDMath

(4): DkKoba, VFP, flow trap, Andante

Almost50

(1): MathBlade

Save The Dragons

(1): Yessiree

Not Voting

(1): Almost50

Deadline:

(expired on 2021-05-05 21:15:00).

Mod notes:

[/area]

I think if Koba is scum it’s not with yes
I don’t see Koba listening to me as scum and abandoning a miselim on ND to go to scum
Scum to scum does
So I think the traditional answer is probably Koba+Robert
Or ND+Robert or ND+Deep wolf

[MathBlade]

we can really like abandon the deepwolf idea, like i said, scum nd throwing themselves into the townblock = them keeping PoE further open.

it means the PoE is effective atm and we should be following it.

I don’t ever abandon a deep wolf idea sorry. Not my style

[MathBlade]

Poke around a bit other people while I watch Critical Role

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

Maybe it’s my reading mojo
Maybe it’s maypowerine

Is it a joke or is it serious who knows?

[MathBlade]

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

not the cleared watcher? OH WAIT!!! MY DESPERADO KILL!!!!

No.
Because the watcher is not cleared.

Or maybe I am being paranoid to save them.

[MathBlade]

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

not the cleared watcher? OH WAIT!!! MY DESPERADO KILL!!!!

Why do you think you’re alive?

[MathBlade]

I probably die tonight if Koba is scum

not the cleared watcher? OH WAIT!!! MY DESPERADO KILL!!!!

what watcher is cleared?

I believe she is referring to ND

[MathBlade]

hey, sorry, been extremely busy with IRL stuff, still am, but I should have more time tonight and over the weekend

Damn I wanted your opinion. Shame

[MathBlade]

hold on hahahahhaa

none of us are saying robert is towny, but how can we not sheep this watcher claim?

I had a guilty on town once as town and elimmed scum

I have a special brand of paranoia.

It serves me well.

[MathBlade]

Scum spew is always valuable. I never say no to it
And if you’re town it helps

[MathBlade]

What if Not Mafia didn’t shoot A?

[MathBlade]

I am kinda wondering if it’s ND+Andante.

[MathBlade]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

sorry, didn't mean to make you feel that way, I'm just like actually sad flow is out right now... idk why but I didn't expect them to die... I was having a great time with them lol as all yall know...

tis a shame that ndmath thought that scum!koba would ever kill there

I do think you would....



BLADE. I WAS CALLING A50 BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN A WAGON MY FRIEND.

So? You did so badly. And when it mattered you wanted a50 tomorrow.

You’re pinging me

[MathBlade]

see yall on D4. I'm done here

we're not rushing this day unless you are trying to say my input here is not valuable.

sorry, didn't mean to make you feel that way, I'm just like actually sad flow is out right now... idk why but I didn't expect them to die... I was having a great time with them lol as all yall know...

tis a shame that ndmath thought that scum!koba would ever kill there

I do think you would....



BLADE. I WAS CALLING A50 BEFORE THERE WAS EVEN A WAGON MY FRIEND.

no.. flow is objectively a bad kill

This. I don’t see Koba doing this kill.

What happened to shooting me A?

If I am scum I die, if not you die

[MathBlade]

half me just wants to vote out blade then figure the game lol

they are towny too

I know... just.. they're actually getting on my nerves...

So? If sorting things is annoying you that’s a problem.

Just brush it off as paranoia

[MathBlade]

OMG WAIT. GRANDPA DIED... THEN FLOW.... 2/3 of the trio is dead.... see yall IRL tomorrow lmao I can't. blade is making me mad, my friends are literally dead here... so I can't just meme the day away... I'd flip yesiree today if people wanted to do that, if not, I'm fine with yeeting koba

No we always flip in ND or Koba here.

Not outside of it.

We find the scum or scums in that pair.

Why are you trying to elim outside of it?

[MathBlade]

I am getting serious A is scum vibes gonna go over Not Mafia’s ISO again

[MathBlade]

Hey Koba...setup check me. Can scum get desperado?

[MathBlade]

Thanks

[MathBlade]

What about scum having a redirector and redirecting Not Mafia to town?

[MathBlade]

Like ND+A is really pinging me fierce.

I know we probably elim you because it’s smart but A pushing outside of that and suggesting to kill me for sorting and suggesting yes rubs me all kinds of wrong.

[MathBlade]

hey, sorry, been extremely busy with IRL stuff, still am, but I should have more time tonight and over the weekend

Damn I wanted your opinion. Shame

what did you want me to look at?

Nd and/or Koba who is scum and why?

[MathBlade]

It’s pretty much elim a VT either way.

If we guess wrong then a VT dies since ND claimed one shot

[MathBlade]

Like if I am a cop I check A tonight.

That’s how paranoid I am.

Her play does not match what town should be doing and she didn’t die.

[MathBlade]

sounds good to me, I'm desperado-ing you tonight

shot for your power role
-If you did not get a pre-game vote you get 0 charges and you are a vanilla townie/mafia goon
-If two players choose the same power role the one who gets less pre-game votes gets the power role and the other is a vanilla townie/mafia goon
-If two players choose the same power role and get the same amount of pre-game votes they both get the power role.
-If three+ players choose the same power role and get the same amount of pre-game votes they all are vanilla townies/mafia goons.

Good luck with that.

Yay for playing dumb.

Only NM can be a desperado and he’s dead

[MathBlade]

sounds good to me, I'm desperado-ing you tonight

shot for your power role
-If you did not get a pre-game vote you get 0 charges and you are a vanilla townie/mafia goon
-If two players choose the same power role the one who gets less pre-game votes gets the power role and the other is a vanilla townie/mafia goon
-If two players choose the same power role and get the same amount of pre-game votes they both get the power role.
-If three+ players choose the same power role and get the same amount of pre-game votes they all are vanilla townies/mafia goons.

Good luck with that.

Yay for playing dumb.

Only NM can be a desperado and he’s dead

Oh wait I guess it’s possible you’re a desperado if exactly same votes

I find it highly improbable

[MathBlade]

Especially if you’re town desperado and we make a wrong choice you would shoot the other then not me.

[MathBlade]

It’s unlikely. I feel that’s all I can say within the rules. Possible yes probable no.
And if you are you just die.

Because if I die and a scum NK then you’re a scum desperado confirmed which solves my problem.
Or you’re town desperado being very anti town arguing against solving the PoE and attacking one of the few players attempting a solve which means you’ll die
Or you’re lying scum and not desperado which is literally not a problem because you’ll never be able to prove yourself so you’ll be elimmed eventually.

So I give zero fucks other than it adds to my suspicion of you.

[MathBlade]

If you were town desperado you’d want this 1v1 resolved fast as possible so you could shoot the other if wrong or figure out if it’s both scum bickering. Instead you’re doing anything but

[MathBlade]

No, it quite frankly doesn’t.

You don’t kill a watched/possibly watched target as scum without a ninja.
Scum had a jailkeeper and lost it.
Most powers remaining except a redirector are town centric powers.

I don’t see scum shooting flow here without some kind of hope they don’t get caught. Or it’s a gambit.
Especially after losing their own to a flash wagon.

I know I know we probably elim Koba here and that is the traditional answer.

But I think it’s NDMath.

VOTE: NDMath

[MathBlade]

Possible and would lean into my VFP scumread earlier.

If Koba flips scum I would consider VFP.

I just don’t think Koba and VFP make that kill.

[MathBlade]

If I'm a watcher, I'll be on you like a hawk tonight, Flow!

I don’t think a Koba+VFP team kills flow after baiting a watcher on flow.

[MathBlade]

If we go with Watcher telling the truth it would have to be with an exhausted Koba because they were pulling all the weight themselves. It’s just they’re better than this. (Sorry if that hurts Koba)

Pedit: Look at where my vote is. I literally am just exploring all possible worlds here.

[MathBlade]

I think I am to the point where I kinda want a flip here.

I think A’s play is really anti town and if I am a cop I check them.

If Koba is scum we’re probably just hunting in PoE or A and call it a day.

If Koba is town I want ND followed by A and then see if we have a game.

[MathBlade]

you keep saying this... there's literally no guarantee we have a watcher

If me and Dk are scum together then ND is 100% a Watcher.

If I were scum I would have killed Flow for the record.
Mainly to see if it clears not having a Watcher to use as an advantage.
If Dk said no to me in scum chat I'd call them chicken and they would go along with it.
This would have back fired on us, but in the long run we tried a risky play.

It is actually highly likely that me and Dk are scum buddies here. I will be willing to sacrifice my buddy before me as well.

I meant it like, maf don't know for sure if there's a watcher, so they can easily just hit flow... Blade is acting like maf knew for sure there was one

This is a blatant misrep.

What I am saying is that multiple players all of whom cannot be scum suggested to watch flow.

That means that it is likely scum would not kill flow. The fact they did means either no watcher or planned substandard kill. Considering they just lost A50 the first is more likely.

[MathBlade]

it's not like you get to call our shots....

And why not?

Assume I am scum with Koba then me and Koba bus A50 for no reason? Then commit a substandard kill when I am on record as one of the best scum on site? That doesn’t make sense at all.

Assume I am scum with ND. That would mean that me + ND + A50. I immediately FoS two teammates out of the gate, bus a second for no apparent reason then intentionally sacrifice another to go on a 1 v a billion rampage.

C’mon A. This just doesn’t work. I get you gotta try but a redirector for scum makes a hell of a lot more sense than either the two of those

[MathBlade]

there is no redirector btw because a watcher has 0% chance of seeing me. ndmath claimed a false report and thats that.

There could be a redirector just not on you to be fair. I still suspect A but could be convinced that’s just paranoia but if all the easy people for Koba/ND partner are gone please please please reconsider A. They keep pinging me

[MathBlade]

Also word of warning I am extremely disappointed and dysphoric due to something outside this game so if I take it out on you I am sorry.

[MathBlade]

I am kinda wanting to elim ND because Koba’s really seeming to wim than ND

[MathBlade]

there is no redirector btw because a watcher has 0% chance of seeing me. ndmath claimed a false report and thats that.

There could be a redirector just not on you to be fair. I still suspect A but could be convinced that’s just paranoia but if all the easy people for Koba/ND partner are gone please please please reconsider A. They keep pinging me

There is no possibily that i show up on a watcher report that is, because i dont visit.

The longer we push the day the more i think robert and math expose themselves.

I don’t mean about you. I know you claim you don’t show up on it and that’s why it’s a 1v1
I mean the role as a whole may still exist and just have targeted someone other than ND last night.

The reason being is no one declared FN receipt from flow.

So this means it’s likely flow was redirected to himself and Andraste is scum.

[MathBlade]

Or at the very least she is possible scum.

Sorry for the misspelling I am a huge dragon age fan and my phone always misspells complex names so I shorten them

[MathBlade]

I am thinking we have a scum redirector which is why no one has spoken up.
If the town redirector wishes to speak out it’s important to correct me if I am wrong.
If we have a recipient of the FN message please speak up and correct my theory.

I doubt flow forgot after all that chatting.

[MathBlade]

I think scum would redirect flow onto themselves or flow forgot.

The reason being is that if they have flow eat the message if someone was a jailkeeper or roleblocker or doctor that saved flow then flow still looks bad. That’s my hunch. Admittedly can’t prove it as no access to scum PT but redirect flow to himself makes sense

Though they really should have just let flow send the message. Flow was obvTown anyway damage minimal.

[MathBlade]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

I agree it does seem risky and it’s likely ND is a watcher and it’s more just alignment.

I don’t think redirecting flow here works because friendly neighbor was ungated. At best we miselim one person then flow gets redirected a second time but what’s more realistic is that flow knows that there is a redirector now and his message would be useless. But still sending it and wasting scums time. They probably suspected Koba of being a PR and redirected them. Again another hunch.

And they wouldn’t have to know NM is a desperado just lucky. Standard scum procedure is to redirect someone on themselves to hide information. (Partially responsible for that meta due to Gistou)

[MathBlade]

I dont get what redirector is supposed to do bc i DONT VISISY

visisy?

That is probably meant as visit.

[MathBlade]

I dont get what redirector is supposed to do bc i DONT VISISY

One more time in the back.
It’s not about you being redirected. It’s about NM dying and the missing message.

[MathBlade]

you keep saying this... there's literally no guarantee we have a watcher

If me and Dk are scum together then ND is 100% a Watcher.

If I were scum I would have killed Flow for the record.
Mainly to see if it clears not having a Watcher to use as an advantage.
If Dk said no to me in scum chat I'd call them chicken and they would go along with it.
This would have back fired on us, but in the long run we tried a risky play.

It is actually highly likely that me and Dk are scum buddies here. I will be willing to sacrifice my buddy before me as well.

I meant it like, maf don't know for sure if there's a watcher, so they can easily just hit flow... Blade is acting like maf knew for sure there was one

This is a blatant misrep.

What I am saying is that multiple players all of whom cannot be scum suggested to watch flow.

That means that it is likely scum would not kill flow. The fact they did means either no watcher or planned substandard kill. Considering they just lost A50 the first is more likely.

I'm confused by what you mean by no watcher. If I were a scumwatcher there would still be the possibility of a town watcher.

I am kinda wanting to elim ND because Koba’s really seeming to wim than ND

I'm obviously biased but I don't see much impressive.
They're just omgusing Robert while acting like they're open-minded about it, and making questionable arguments that they[koba] are town.

I think scum would redirect flow onto themselves or flow forgot.

The reason being is that if they have flow eat the message if someone was a jailkeeper or roleblocker or doctor that saved flow then flow still looks bad. That’s my hunch. Admittedly can’t prove it as no access to scum PT but redirect flow to himself makes sense

Though they really should have just let flow send the message. Flow was obvTown anyway damage minimal.

There was only one visitor on flow, their message could not have been redirected.
And having one scum kill and another redirect that same player is a horrible mech play.

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

Same point as above, having two scum visit the kill is a highly risky play and should be apparent as not the case with the speed I claimed the watcher result.

robert do you have any thoughts besides voting koba

Yeah

I have no idea what's happening with redirectors and all that mechanical stuff, I need it explained slowly.

Ignoring the mech stuff, what are those thoughts?

The no watcher would mean you’re lying about Koba scum. It’s not probable but possible that you aren’t a watcher.
I think the more probable is that you’re a scum watcher lying about Koba scum.

I just don’t see Koba being that mechanically unsound and you’re an unknown.

[MathBlade]

There was only one visitor on flow, their message could not have been redirected.
And having one scum kill and another redirect that same player is a horrible mech play.

Is that what is being proposed?

ND claims a guilty watch on Koba.
Koba says they are VT.

It’s confirmed a scum in either.
A claims desperado going to shoot me.

I give 0 fucks except I suspect A.
I break down where it is highly improbable for me to be scum and I don’t give a flip if she desperados me.
She moves on to VFP being scum.

She also wanted to elim outside that guilty.

Her play was so bad I was looking for a way she can be scum and redirector is it.

So I am thinking scum have a redirector and A is scum.

[MathBlade]

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Uh huh.
Sure you did.

So ND+Robert or Koba+Robert goes up to level 11 and A was likely being just antitown and bad.

[MathBlade]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.

[MathBlade]

I am honored and surprised that he chose me.

This reads fake as duck.

[MathBlade]

my current understanding is that if there is a redirector and it redirected flow with someone else, NDmath would be watching the redirected target, but the night kill would still hit flow since it cannot be redirected

If the redirector targeted ND this would be true.
However I don’t find that viable.
A redirector on flow would redirect Flow’s action of FN.

It’s still a 1v1

And pretty sure whichever way this goes I want Robert tomorrow.
I don’t see any world where flow picks Robert.

The wording from wiki is this regarding redirector
"Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose"

It's the night actions performed ON the players that are swapped, not the players performing night actions that are swapped. So had the redirector swapped flow with someone else, it wouldn't be influencing flow's own night actions but rather the night actions performed on flow.

Does this make sense?

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Redirector

Not sure what wiki you’re looking at yes. Might help if you link it. Below is the first paragraph.

A Redirector is a role that causes all actions taken on a particular Night by a specific player to target a specific second player instead of whatever their original target was.

By a specific player flow >> to another player X.

So yeah your interpretation requires something else unless redirector is not normal.
Let me check the open setup and if it has a different definition and if it does it would need to be changed for future setups.

[MathBlade]

thinking out loud here

the watcher claim by scum!ND seems dangerous because if there's a(nother) watcher they'd be on flow, they'd be able to say they didn't see ND on flow thus proving ND a liar pretty quick. that makes me think scum or town, ND is a watcher and probably watched flow last night.

if scum have a redirector and used it on flow to gain his message, then it's ND as a watcher so the other scum would be a redirector. i'm having trouble seeing them not just redirecting to scum and letting flow take heat for the message.

they'd have to know not_mafia was a desparado though to redirect his target from Andante to some one else. that seems rather unlikely, and it seems unlikely that N_M killed desparado'd someone else on purpose, so i think Andante is pretty safe for me.

i don't find the scum redirector theory very likely at this juncture

not mafia was 3 shot btw - just a thought.

I received a belated message from the mod that Flow Trap is town.

Were there any mod errors this game? @raya

Raya can’t answer this as it would confirm or deny mechanics. Much as I would love them too.

[MathBlade]

Congratulations, now you are a X-Shot Redirector.
Your abilities:

At X Night(s) of your choice you may target two players. Every Night Action performed on the first player you choose will be performed on the second player you choose; as if they had been targeted on them originally. Neither of your targets nor anyone who performed any Night Actions on your first target will be informed about the redirection. If your redirection fails, you will not be informed about it. You can not redirect Nightkills.

^^ so it looks like this redirector is not normal wow that’s what I get for being old.

I will make a note to ask the mods to change it post game.

This changes like my entire theory.

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

I will bring that up with the mods post game. Ideally Opens should be using the rules as the normal role or called a new name. That’s interesting.

[MathBlade]

For now yay Math was bad at setup shit.

Bad math.

Thanks yes for pointing it out

[MathBlade]

https://wiki.mafiascum.net/index.php?title=Charge_Me_Up!

im looking at the wiki for this setup specifically

To be clear the wiki interpretation would win here.
So now that that’s straight.

Let’s probably elim Koba who flips town.
Then Andraste shoots ND or it’s a scum claim
Then we elim ND/Andraste

Or Koba is scum and this is literally all spew and go back to sorting if ND is genuine or if this is a gambit or wth happened.

[MathBlade]

I think if this version is used, it has some big implications. Ofc this is still assuming there is redirector in play and they swapped flow with someone else.

So ND targetted flow, but he was actually watching the swapped target, thinking he was watching flow. Koba visited the swapped target instead of flow. Flow still died to NK since that cannot be redirected.

This is indeed possible but in the grand scheme of things doesn’t matter for today.

We know at least one of Koba/ND has to be scum. Because Koba claimed VT and cannot visit.

This means ND cannot see Koba visit anyone.

Therefore the one v one still exists. It would just mean that ND would be watching someone other than the kill. Which would be possible if Koba was the redirector as they would have to visit flow.

Koba + A possible

I think we really need a flip here then look tomorrow.

Great call out yes.

[MathBlade]

We know at least one of Koba/ND has to be scum. Because Koba claimed VT and cannot visit.

Ah ok. I was missing this piece of info. I'm good with a Koba lim then.

I am good with it but I think they flip town.

[MathBlade]

i think everyone here should like say what their read on NDmath/me is without considering the claimed result as a reason, as it is just a 50/50. NDmath was an extremely likely elimination here today without their gambit here - so it should be a null point anyways.

Both possibly scum.
You pinged me early and so did ND and so did A50.

[MathBlade]

I still haven’t ruled out you gambiting as a possibility with ND

[MathBlade]

I think it’s not such a big deal today if we miselim Koba. They’re just a VT at worst and then we get ND tomorrow.

[MathBlade]

I still haven’t ruled out you gambiting as a possibility with ND

i think u should trust that i would never try such a stupid gambit since then i have to explain why i havent died for 2 nights straight. when im scum i hate to be in the "should be nightkilled" zone.

Sorry taking your word for stuff like that is hard.

You’re a good scum player for a reason.

[MathBlade]

it probably realistically doesn't change anything but i dont think ndmath having a higher weight here based on a claim should be a thing LOL

It doesn’t actually.

It’s more the old adage of elim the guilty before the cop phrase.

[MathBlade]

I don't think the wagon was justified there and felt a little too easy with lack of resistance.

Flea's vote I disliked the most out of all of them.
I doubt there's 2 scum on the wagon though, but I'll be shocked if everyone is town there.

It does make me think that Green has more of a chance to flip red here though and Mini is just the counter or at least a distraction that scum are just letting fly by.

As of who I think is town

DGM

is pretty town to me. There's a few posts I feel that are forced like 372 but I don't feel like it's scum mind set. I also think DMG is actually trying to progress reads though I'd like to see DMG question more towards who is scum.

Mini

is focused on the game at me. It's not like it's a popular place to push and there are much easier / accpetable targets for Mini to go for here. I don't think scum Mini get concerned about me asking for a prod on them either. The back and fourther between them and Dk was just not useful on a scale of sorting. The above is what makes me think town too.

Flow

is going to be the spot I flip flop on I feel like, but Flow I just read their posts as town. There's not too much else in it so mainly just gut.

NM

most likely town here. Mainly from the entrance but I doubt I'll get much more here.

ND

is actually producing high amount on content to posts. 291 is only from a town mind.

Town lean

Lukewarm

I can imagine being the scum tickets pass. 331 has some reads I disagree with but is consistent. I think I'm warming up to this slot.

Dk

is just going to tunnel here because of the disagreement. I'm not discrediting any skills they have here, I am saying that I don't think they fully believe to be 100% right here without the shit show argument. The problem I have with it is before that Dk was a realiable person to read in the sense I didn't feel there's a negative agenda for reads or comments. Now I think Dk is just going to ignore the game to that level until Mini is gone. The main problem is this stops me being able to make a read on them as if scum the tunnel is just going to be a smoke cloud. I think Dk shows as scum outside of that if scum, just from the way they play.

Artemiana

makes it just into here. I liked the approach to the shit show trying to prevent it going on. I know regardless of alignment it's not something that should be promoted but as scum you want to see town rip into each other (And this is going by my TvT). I liked something early game but I can't remember what.

Null

Moz

Needs to do something. I wish all the best in RL but still I expect something to be able to read on even if it's just an actual vote.

Dragons

I almost want to put as lean town but I feel that they do reads to appease rather than what they believe. Personally I think Dragon has a lot to offer though if town and I want to go through more reads with them directly day 2.

Minor lean scum

yessiree

seems empty with their posts. I don't see any actual attempt at scum hunting or want to progress. I don't see them going for easy targets either, but maybe staying under the radar or coasting.

Flea

gives me a different feeling to how I have normally with Flea. It's hard to say as last game me and Flea were calling each other scum and we were TvT so it could be a case of both of us giving opportunity here. Regardless I won't lim Flea day 1 as Flea is by far active enough generally to slip up. There's not too much to go by other than I feel Flea has been a bit quiet as a whole in this game so far. I only put Flea in minor out of respect of not being a null! Flea is the second player I want to get views on more day 2 before progressing.

Lean scum

Green

is playing as a typical scum, pick a target and stick to it without adding anything else to the game. As it stands there seem to be a few names I can't see with Green and with my thoughts on the Mini wagon I can see this as a good lim.

I'd be more preferable at this stage to talk about particular reads and give a details description on a name rather than the game state.
I can tell you that this list is where I'm actually currently at regardless of any lists posted before.

If I'm right on

Green

/

Mini

then we would be looking at
1 scum in
Save the Dragons, Dk, nm, Flea, Lukewarm
2 scum in
Yessiree, moz, Artemiana, ND, Mini, Green

With DGM and Flow locking as town for me.

did we decide VFP was town?

No but there’s much higher people in the PoE than VFP

[MathBlade]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

andante not partnered with ndmath based on this kind of post ^ you dont push partners to roleclaim.

This is the opposite of a push Koba. It’s a dissuasion of claiming. Mention and defuse in the same post. Means if ND is scum they are a natural or have experience.

[MathBlade]

lol ok all good, I read this recent post first and was like, uhhh Almost50?? ahh you're voting them, all good!! and when he flips scum... flow/koba definitely has 1 cause they're trying to get ndmath first..

have you considered they are both scum?

you can push there, I'll keep pushing here. I wanna see how the wagons move.

genius play btw - nom me for it xoxo

Might just if you’re both scum and pull it off.
I think I am the only person who things you and ND might both be scum here. It’s more likely ND because you sheeped me immediately on A50.

[MathBlade]

If wrong we lose a VT.
If wrong on ND we lose a Watcher

The 1 for 1 makes sense as Dk first.

You lost a potential ally today Dk!

Incorrect. ND claimed one shot. It’s a battle of VTs now in essence

[MathBlade]

1 thing I will give you Dk, I think you are very good at manipulating.
I don't mean that in a bad way, I just think you has this way with yourself.

You know what to say and when to say.
You are only in the situation because a Watcher gave you a guilty. Let's remember that.

I agree. It’s also why I think ND is scum here.

My suspicion is they didn’t have enough ammo especially if Robert is scum to stop two PRs. So combined with Koba’s fake PR claim and instantly clearing me in their first post they were going to run into the too many confirmed town problem.

ND who was the least well positioned claims a guilty on Koba.

If they win (SOP) then only me and Koba are confirmed and then they just attempt to kill me overnight.

I think that’s a lot more likely.

[MathBlade]

Not much to say right now.
I don't think T3's vote is scum-indicative; we need to get an elim in.

Andante technically should be roleclaiming but I struggle to see it mattering.

andante not partnered with ndmath based on this kind of post ^ you dont push partners to roleclaim.

This is the opposite of a push Koba. It’s a dissuasion of claiming. Mention and defuse in the same post. Means if ND is scum they are a natural or have experience.

yeah andante is in PoE forever here. i would actually lim andante over robert if nd were to flip redirector

This. So much this assuming you’re town.

[MathBlade]

weird why not follow? after he hardpushed the wagon very early on a now flipped scum?

I've played far too many games with Math to blindly follow.
It's no discredit to Math at all either.

This is a fair point.

You can go in the town pool.

[MathBlade]

but this game they literally already got 1 scum and i helped and he is townreading me here

As I said, I've played enough with Math.
Math is just in my lim pile.

Did you know, last time me and Math played together, after scum was found Math wanted to push me as scum after I gave them NK immune and they were already more or less confirmed town (no lim possibility). And it was obvious that my bus driver action was involved in having a Mafia night kill themselves.
Who does that as scum? But yet Math was having me as scum.

This is an example to why I don't always trust Maths lead unless I have a good opinion on it too.

Scum have used this tactic to buddy me when they don’t want to kill me when reads are bad

I can be buddied it’s a weakness

[MathBlade]

I'm always scum, you know this.

Except when faer town like here.
And boooo you forgot enbies in your boys and girls line (joking teasing tone)

[MathBlade]

andante: I trust watcher
me: why
andante: bc they claim
me: how is that a good reason
andante:

Andante is either scum or pretty bad town play.

Assume Koba is town and flipped:
Then Andante shoots ND or shoots me and dies or is scum. In this world we do not care.

Assume Koba is scum and flipped:
Then Andante shoots me, dies and we do not care.

Assume ND is town and flipped
Then Andante shoots Koba or me and dies or is scum. In this world we do not care.

Assume ND is scum and flipped:
Then scum!shoot me and Andante shoot me and then just pick someone else to have Andante shoot that is in the PoE. Use them to shrink the PoE. If Andante is scum it will force the scum kill and ensure victory that way.

With Andante claiming desperado she would have to have three shots so it’s literal I don’t care.
Even if there is a redirector and Andante is town that just means Andante dies and her silly idea gets buried.

Like there is no way her pushing me is bad. Let’s just ignore it. A is in moon logic land. Let her have her I am in the PoE.

[MathBlade]

Then Andante is conf scum if they say the shoot me and aren’t dead lolz.

Like 0 fucks given. Let’s just pick one and call it a day.

[MathBlade]

jk i was scum

Well played.

Now time to sort your massive spew to find your buddy.

[MathBlade]

gj mathblade thx

And thanks for not limming yesiree yall

Thanks Koba and GG everyone!

Sorry I went all paranoia-y

[MathBlade]

Agreed. Thanks for modding!

I think the redirector should probably be changed to be the normal one but that’s not a mod mistake as it’s currently different.

Ideally I would also put in a threshold of power boosts for scum (eg 1-2 extra votes) this can balance if less known people draw scum. Like they just have one to two more shots at the start of the game to assign to people.

[MathBlade]

This also allows for scum to have powers and not forced to give to buddies which creates good fake claims.

Especially if they know their buddies will always have powers they can spread stuff out
Like “oh I gave it to So and So (new player) so I could sort them” which is a Townie and scummy thing.

[MathBlade]

Thanks Raya for moddiong.

GG town and nice try scum!
So I really wanted to discuss why scum probably had 3 powers but I didn't want to risk breaking the rules or being in a grey area.

I asked Raya this too and I think that there needs to be a way to counter this. I was thinking boosts would help. What really would help is maybe a d1 where everyone is vanilla then decide powers and scum get three additional in their pool. And if a player gets more than X shots they die from overflow

[MathBlade]

This allows for the charging aspect and the person elimmed on D1 also gets to charge someone

Then claiming can provide input and scum have the flexibility to give it to town or to scum based on how the game is going.

[MathBlade]

Plus then you can pick a role based on gamestate. Eg if you think deep wolf then desperado is valuable.
But desperado should also be reversed to prevent everyone just picking desperado then scum outed.

[MathBlade]

The number of boosts may need a counter or even better yet

Have each power choice be one of two powers

Eg desperado/rolecop << where you pick one of those two roles.

And rolecop shows the pairing

Ugh I gotta focus on work but I think this setup could be improved a lot while keeping the charge idea