are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?
Mini Normal 2239 | AQAtPimP | Game Over
-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10453
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10453
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
probably ate or make t3 look bad after he flipped red esp since datsi/me both thought it looked like s/sIn post 1371, Enchant wrote:Still wondering what IV wanted to achieve by selfvoting.-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1370, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.Do you townreaddatsibecause they didn't have direct interaction withiv?I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8416
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
This interaction here was a big plus for me. Actually in grabbing this for you and rereading it I notice the boldedIn post 1368, Enchant wrote:I want to look at Chaos carefully actually first.In post 1179, ChaosOmega wrote:
I still have suspicions of Dwlee, I'm just cognizant of previously misreading them and going off the rails (and you were in that game as well). Especially since they're not a viable option today, I'm tabling it for now.In post 1172, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Chaos, what happened to your suspicions on Dwlee? They seemed pretty consistent up to 942, then Dwlee makes 943 and you seem to drop it because he AtEs you. I thought this drop of the read was worse than it really was because I thought you made 1047afterDatisi had just voted Dwlee (I was reading your ISO and recalled 1047 was made around the time that happened, but when I opened thread I saw Datisi voted in 1049).
Can you also go into your IV scumread? You said you'd follow up with it but didn't post the reasoning later on, just voted him
True, let me go back through here. His opening, this is a minor point and I'm biased because I've seen scum do it twice now since I've been back, but his start where he's like livetweeting as he's reading supposedly to look town and give genuine reactions seems easy for scum to fake. I'm going to quote his read on Datisi from 694:
This is also minor (which might be a trend), but this is a weird choice of wording to use. He scumread Datisi earlier in the game, the post has Datisi in null, so his read softened a bit it looks like, but wording it like this makes it seem like the bad push on his slot is most likely if Datisi is town, which he was arguing against earlier.innocentvillager wrote:datisi - i honestly have no idea on datisi nothing he's done makes me think town or scum. push on me was bad but i can see it from scum him too.This also seems like a weird backtrack to make on Datisi's slot, he scumread Datisi previously, but now none of his actions are AI to him. It reads like he got Datisi to suspect him less, then lessened his own read to disengage and get suspicion off himself. I also think his scumread and park on Margot is lazy, but this might be more of a playstyle difference and I understand why he would be more invested in the read.
Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.In post 1180, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Mmm okay, that case feels genuine. I reread IVs ISO and dont see anything within to make me hesitate on him toDay.
VOTE: IV
This makes 4 votes I think. Last VC says (3) but only had 2 names listed. It's now 5 for T3, 4 for IVP,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
Falco Apologist | woo Magi-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1375, Aristeia wrote:
are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?Since whenT3was an ic??I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8416
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
I think I've found a decent way to meta him, and he's posted enough of a certain kind of post now without the presence of the scumtell that I think he's just town here.In post 1377, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1370, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:I know Aristea and Margot had interactions with IV that make them both look not partnered. I feel like Datisi did too. The problem with that is it only leaves Salsa, and there are 2 scum left. Somewhere amongst those 3 there is scum theatre.Do you townreaddatsibecause they didn't have direct interaction withiv?P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
Falco Apologist | woo Magi-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivor
-
-
ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8416
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
Aristea was talking about Roden. Were you talking about T3? It read like you were talking about a nightkill, either Roden or Dwlee.In post 1379, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1375, Aristeia wrote:
are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tellRodennot to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?Since whenT3was an ic??P,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
Falco Apologist | woo Magi-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10453
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
?In post 1379, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1375, Aristeia wrote:
are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?Since whenT3was an ic??
i thought you were talking about roden
what does you voting for t3 have to do with anything?-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1382, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:
Aristea was talking about Roden. Were you talking about T3? It read like you were talking about a nightkill, either Roden or Dwlee.In post 1379, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1375, Aristeia wrote:
are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tellRodennot to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?Since whenT3was an ic??No, I'm talking aboutT3, not sure aboutDwleenk, don't remember if they say anything nk worth atm butRodenwas an ic so nk worthy and didn’t townread me iirr.I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1383, Aristeia wrote:
?In post 1379, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1375, Aristeia wrote:
are you seriously asking me why the scum shot the IC?In post 1365, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1361, Aristeia wrote:I have no reason to spend so many posts to tell Roden not to townbin IV when he thought IV was inno due to emotional manipulation if I am IV-partnerWhat is my reason to kill person who townread me strongly from D1 where I get eliminated all the time as any alignment?Since whenT3was an ic??
i thought you were talking about roden
what does you voting for t3 have to do with anything?Lol, your case on me based onivandT3eliminationI'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
datsi Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 184
- Joined: December 6, 2020
-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1378, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.As far as I can remember now,MRscumreadivfrom early. Why scum!them would do that?I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
In post 1386, datsi wrote:I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pureI just checked, you andCOwere off wagon lmao!I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox-
-
datsi Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 184
- Joined: December 6, 2020
That thought was constructed during the night phase tbhIn post 1388, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1386, datsi wrote:I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pureI just checked, you andCOwere off wagon lmao!
And there were others off wagon (but in reality I do think that initial assessment was probably wrong)If you dream of the role of power again, I will immediately ignore all the reasons. You came back and dreamed that Locke was a bulletproof multitasking cop and a self-targeting doctor from night. ~Melanque-
-
datsi Goon
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 184
- Joined: December 6, 2020
I think IV’s handling of Margot was possibly theaterIn post 1387, Salsabil Faria wrote:In post 1378, ssbm_Kyouko wrote:Maybe the bolded is indicative of town!Datisi and scum!Margot? With the context of IV's flip, parking a vote on a buddy that isn't necessarily going to OMGUS you is probably one of the safest ways to ride out pressure. I'm not sure if scum!Margot was forced to bus though. Need to get context around their IV vote.As far as I can remember now,MRscumreadivfrom early. Why scum!them would do that?If you dream of the role of power again, I will immediately ignore all the reasons. You came back and dreamed that Locke was a bulletproof multitasking cop and a self-targeting doctor from night. ~Melanque-
-
ssbm_Kyouko She/HerJack of All TradesShe/Her
- Jack of All Trades
- Jack of All Trades
- Posts: 8416
- Joined: November 3, 2016
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: Middle Tennessee
Including Margot?In post 1386, datsi wrote:I’m thinking the T3 wagon was probably pureP,Polarized!I,Intelligent!N,Never wrong!K,Kyouko!
Falco Apologist | woo Magi-
-
MargotRosa she/herGoonshe/her
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 775
- Joined: August 6, 2021
- Pronoun: she/her
I'm going to point this out, because it's a source of some confusion, though it will probably make me look worse in context.
When I first started seriously scum reading IV, it wasn't my longer post, but earlier at 526. They were at 2 votes (out of a necessary 7 to eliminate). I maintained that, up until the initial e-1 (which I did not handle well, and may have led to a quick elimination which I did not realise, due to being new, and not really thinking about the effect of the N_M slot), and then beyond that, easing off a bit only because I was aware that I had done something stupid, and which I shouldn't have, and stressing that I had overcomplicated and overthought the situation.
When I did push again in 1192, it was only once I felt confident enough to really spell out my reasons for voting the way that I did in clear terms. You are free to meta dive me; you can see the same habits of overthinking and overcomplication, which I historically have overcome with long, well thought out posts that I make when I have decided to vote for a slot, and to change that vote only if it is clear that the rest of the village won't join me (which would be stubborn and unhelpful).
The mathematical proof that a given strategy was bad in Newbie 2076 to vote (incorrectly) has been referenced by myself in a few games, but you can also look at the following post for an example of the same thing from the same game in which I use a similar style of deduction to, coincidentally, also vote out scum on d1:
You can see similar thought processes in the neighbourhood PT that I was neighbourizer of in Lemon Demon.In post 918, MargotRosa wrote:So here’s one significant part of why I am convinced that Strange is the last scum, specifically the interactions between them and LQ on d1.
Rereading, their exchanges read so much like scum becoming increasingly frustrated by their partner and the overt scum tells he was giving off.
The dynamic that played out here, if it is between two Scum, is a pretty common pattern I’ve seen IRL. Obviously don’t have the experience of forum format to say whether or not it carries over, but I imagine it would to some extent.
The dynamic in question is when someone is when you have a scum pair, and one of the two is clearly giving off massive scum tells. Even if it’s not necessarily crystal clear for town, it’s clear for the other scum, because they know to look for the tells in the first place.
Generally, when I’ve seen it, it plays out in two phases. At first, there is genuine attempts to subtly deflect away from the scumminess of their partner. It’s always fraught, because if you lean in too hard, you become an obvious target for elimination in later days, so it has to be subtle. Where it really starts to show itself is not even necessarily the person doing the deflection, but in the perceptible differences in the way that their partner interacts with them.
In a d1 that was notable for just how wildly defensive LQ was getting about even the slightest hint of a scum read on him, basically the only slot that did not almost immediately spur instant defensiveness was from Astra/Strange.
Here's some posts, with some brief notes. Hope you can piece together the narrative I'm presenting here. Feeling a bit under the weather, so best I can do under the circumstances. Far from exhaustive. Tried to leave out stuff that could count but may also be very dubious.
Examples of defensiveness in response to:
Roden – 36 38 39
T3 – 125 173
Alstro – 132 146
Me – 144 156 317
Me and T3 – 150
Defensiveness tell in general (which had not been brought up by Astra/Strange slot) – 154 182
LQ responding in a less heated way to Astra/Strange presenting guarded SRs of him:
59 60 68
Back and forth between Strange and LQ (one example of a few, not much evidence of this happening with LQ and other players):
285 292 298 328
Mopre exchanges oin which he and Strange are, on some level (intended or not) backing one another up:
253 284
Literally first time LQ says something that can be even construed as testy towards the Astra/Strange slot is 342 when he tells Strange never to vote for a slot just for info.
Incidentally, is 342 a smoking gun? Does NP stand for night play, and LQ thought he was messaging in scum chat?) Strange’s response 344 is maybe the most obviously irritated I’ve seen them in game (though entirely possibly because it was a brisque way to address them irrespective of whether they were doing it to divert attention from LQ.)
LQ does vote for Strange in 349, but I don’t buy it tbh. It’s a really half-hearted dig.
I know this is very based in emotiion, but that was literally how we tagged LQ in the first place. Makes sense that their interactions might also reveal who his team member was.
I worked as a director, not an actor, and am a political economist rather than a politician. I don't act, I think methodically and I nail slots though induction when I have enough information and data to do so. My failings are always, universally, because I'm not particularly good at the emotional, topsy turvy nature of the games I'm in. In Newbie 2076, it was an inability to understand that Roden had clearly worked out that he could beat me just by never giving me anything substantive to work with data wise. In Lemon Demon, it was because I got very emotional partway through the game, and Titus did a fabulous job of filling exactly the kind of supportive friend role that was required to make me emotionally incapable of scum reading her.
If you think I'm scum, then fine. I'm not sure that I'd blame you, and it would 100% have been on me. I do think that a few of the posts over the last couple of days have been off, and I'll put some reads together soon, which are all worth considering. I also would invite you to consider the fact that I voted T3 d2 only after repeatedly Town reading them, and was open about my vote coming from a place of 'this wagon has built up, I can't really think properly under these circumstances, and despite Town reading T3 I don't have much else to offer in terms of reads and I could well be wrong about this given my track record of doing very well d1 and failing miserably in my reads in days subsequent to that one'.
That's about as much defence of my play that is probably worth making honestly, and can't think of anything to say on the matter beyond answering specific questions that aren't answered here.-
-
MargotRosa she/herGoonshe/her
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 775
- Joined: August 6, 2021
- Pronoun: she/her
-
-
MargotRosa she/herGoonshe/her
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 775
- Joined: August 6, 2021
- Pronoun: she/her
Datsi, why do you think the T3 wagon is pure? And why do you think IV's reactions to my scum reads are theatre?
Is the latter literally just a possibility? Do you have concrete reasons for either, but particularly the former? Or is it just gut?
Honestly, I still get really bad vibes from your slot, and coming in for a few posts with some short statements with quite literally nothing included to justify them is continuing to rub me the wrong way-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10453
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
-
-
Aristeia SheSurvivorShe
- Survivor
- Survivor
- Posts: 10453
- Joined: July 17, 2021
- Pronoun: She
-
-
MargotRosa she/herGoonshe/her
- Goon
- Goon
- Posts: 775
- Joined: August 6, 2021
- Pronoun: she/her
It's probably a meta thing, but it's been triggering my scumdar significantly seeing Datsi's playstyle amounting to almost exclusively post unjustified statements that appear to be mostly gut instinct
I'm sure I've posted this before, but some classic examples from this game include 78 114 116 125 267 269 492 (which is extra funny, because you note it's the basic bitch version of your original post, but tracks completely with the posts you've been making otherwise) 570 627 634 684 (in which you just straight up say you don't want to explain yourself) 690 (which is part of a few posts in which you are slightly, and in a slightly odd way, protective of IV's slot [see also 711) and then skipping ahead rather than just linking to half of your posts this game, 1386 1390
This posts which have content just have no justification behind them. They are just statements you are making, mostly about unprovable gut instincts, which is fine, but only if you can justify them.
Idk, I can't tell if I'm reading too much into this. Just has been bugging me since d1-
-
Datisi it/heDrawn from Memoryit/he
- Drawn from Memory
- Drawn from Memory
- Posts: 26100
- Joined: March 28, 2019
- Pronoun: it/he
- Location: Croatia
i am tired because irl so let's call this a semi vla and i am getting to this game tomorrow and putting together something coherent goddammit
kyouko, i assume there's no point in asking you to *actually* explain your gamma read?
gamma, where's your head at today?
salsa, you have townreads on like, everyone except one person in the game, yet you don't seem too concerned about that?I will straight up disregard all reason if you have a PR dream again. You can come back and be like, “I dreamt that Locke is a N2 Bulletproof Multitasking Cop and Self-Targeting Doctor,” and I will go, “Okay, Locke kill it is then.”~M-
-
Salsabil Faria She/HerMafia ScumShe/Her
- Mafia Scum
- Mafia Scum
- Posts: 3779
- Joined: October 1, 2020
- Pronoun: She/Her
- Location: in Bad Player jail
I don't remember of telling that I have townread on everyone. I've problem to read 3 person’s play style: one is flipped scum (iv), the other 2 (Mew,N_M) are cleared by mod and nk.
T3was my scumread who flipped town. I had suspicion aboutDwleewho is also flipped town.
Now, from the alive players I'm town locking you andMRfor the way you guys played aroundiv's wagon but I'm also considering deepwolf stuff and that's why questioning people about their scumread onMRto understand (no one express any scumread on you yet, if they do, I'll question that too.
When I think there is a scum inArianddatsi(leaning towards scum!datsiatm), on the other hand, there is a scum isssbm/COduo where I townread both of them which I need to figure out by iso diving which I don’t start yet.
And I'm less invested in this game because of my health issue. I'm not very bothered about anything tbh.I'm waiting for someone to say something special in mafia game(s) about me, so that, I can change my pathetic signature.
Damn you salsa and your kamikaze claim that allowed you to enjoy and succeed within your own personally crafted win condition ~ AurorusVox
Copyright © MafiaScum. All rights reserved.