Holiday Dance Party ---- Game Over

[Titus]

i'm getting defensive because you've had the bullshit tunnel on gl the whole game and now you're extending it to me too?? fucking call me scum for getting defensive

yeah i'm pushing an agenda to get them flipped because i think there's scum in that pair, like i did just push an agenda to get marci flipped while you were sitting on the gl wagon

Who said I was tunneling you? Why are you supposing that's what I'm doing? I looked at the VCs and your current stances and raised a concern. I'd like to discuss a wholistic picture of the game with you. I feel Marci's proposals and the reactions to them suggest a lot of town.

[Titus]

this has to be the longest anytime no one has left the dance.
I am both amazed, proud, and shocked.

When someone going to break our streak?

*imagines streakers*

[Titus]

guilty > fire > s_s > alyssa > galron > titus > std > andante = harley > shiro = rh9

town to scum

Yeah, we got subscriptions with this readslist, even supposing you and I put Ydrasse in the same place.

Galron's interaction by proposing to me is almost never SS with marci.
Alyssa proposing that marci tilt proposed to GL is almost never SS given the context.
Neither myself nor StD sees how you have SS rated so high.
Harley doesn't post like this as scum, 9/10.
Shiro can't keep up as scum.

There's just few places left.
Guilty and Adante have their issues at start.


Rh9 is a spicy read I'd like to hear more on. Same with StD.

[Titus]

GL, I'd like your readslist.

[Titus]

*pushes Harley to be the best she can be*
*pushes on Harley hard*

Is I scum now?

[Titus]

StD, serious question in the PT.

[Titus]

Harley, can you give your queen a readslist?

[Titus]

Btw, you must argue that Harley is shortsighted as scum to have me buy that read there. Just sayin

[Titus]

I don't think marci goes aggressive to pair with scumlily early if they're both scum.

[Titus]

I would argue that my thoughts on Marci is infact solving,my stance on what Titus is/was potentially doing but w.e

I am pretty certain you are scum trying to ride the ICs read. Highly possibly with Ydras imo but I can't push there till Taly doesn't die.

P. Edit

No point arguing with someone that has 0 reason to think I am actually participating in the game halrey.

Haxor

[Titus]

Rh9, readslist please?

[Titus]

GL, I'd like your readslist.

{Datisi, Fire, Titus}
{STD, S_S, Galron}
{Alyssa, Andante}
{Shiro, HQ, RH9}

I don't wanna lim anybody in the upper two tiers and I'm fine with anyone in the bottom two tiers flipping. top tier is people I'd probably bet the game on being town, second tier is I feel good about them and would only revisit if there were some really surprising flips, third tier is I feel one of these must be POE scum but I haven't got anything super strong against them, bottom tier I really don't feel they've done anything they wouldn't do as scum and I don't feel like they're solving or were vested in limming scum!marci

This reads list is very bizarre

It's basically Datisi's reworded.

[Titus]

I don't think marci goes aggressive to pair with scumlily early if they're both scum.

isn't it funny how they. didn't pair up tho

Right but they easily could have been forced to do so. I don't see that as S v S.

If Harley and Shiro are t v t, what happens to your reads?

[Titus]

Shiro is correct. He has been actively engaged in our PT.

HOW am i supposed to know that when you continuously refuse to paraphrase anything from in there?????

Why do they have to paraphrase anything in particular? You haven't paraphrased anything in your PT and you have shockingly similar reads.

Second, unless the pair is SS then there's no reason to lie.

[Titus]

also titus, THIS is a prime example why i scumread rh9

takes so long to answer a game relevant question by gl but spends like fove posts saying nothing of value that doesn't relate to this game at all

You missed my question RE your StD read.

Rh9 is someone I waffle on. I Sred them at the start, which is already proven partially accurate.

[Titus]

When I played with you as scum, you hard tr me. Proof thqt you hqve no ckue how to read me. If you’re town and not sold on that.

which game was that

Marked for Death, I was in a scum hydra with Titus. I don’t even remember the name but it had marionettes as an avatar.

This is not the game I recall when I think of a hydra with you.

[Titus]

@Alyssa, I could see either you/RH9 or Shiro/HQ as S-S pairs. they were both formed kind of abruptly and all of you are townreading your partners / not expressing even an iota of inclination of considering leaving.

You really think Alyssa asks marci if they tilt proposed to you?

What has been your most memorable discussion with Datisi?

[Titus]

Why do they have to paraphrase anything in particular? You haven't paraphrased anything in your PT and you have shockingly similar reads

because nobody asked me to paraphrase anything?? and gl is not a piece of wood drifting through the main thread while i'm going "he's really solvey in the pt trust me!!!"

Paraphrase a discussion where you both had differing views and reached a resolution please.

[Titus]

When I played with you as scum, you hard tr me. Proof thqt you hqve no ckue how to read me. If you’re town and not sold on that.

which game was that

Marked for Death, I was in a scum hydra with Titus. I don’t even remember the name but it had marionettes as an avatar.

This is not the game I recall when I think of a hydra with you.

We hydra’d in two games. First one was MfD, second wqs Past, Present and Future with Auro. Pretty sure I’m not wrong about this.

We're discussing Past Present Future now

[Titus]

When I played with you as scum, you hard tr me. Proof thqt you hqve no ckue how to read me. If you’re town and not sold on that.

which game was that

Marked for Death, I was in a scum hydra with Titus. I don’t even remember the name but it had marionettes as an avatar.

This is not the game I recall when I think of a hydra with you.

We hydra’d in two games. First one was MfD, second wqs Past, Present and Future with Auro. Pretty sure I’m not wrong about this.

We're discussing Past Present Future now

gl wasn’t in that game though.

My memory of the micro is so terribad though.

[Titus]

I legit had to use search functions to find it

[Titus]

I have zero support for the Datisi/GL pairing endgaming at this stage in the game

How do you feel about Rh9?

[Titus]

Nancy/Shiro, StD is saying that Nancy isn't stubborn enough for my read to be valid.

[Titus]

@Alyssa, I could see either you/RH9 or Shiro/HQ as S-S pairs. they were both formed kind of abruptly and all of you are townreading your partners / not expressing even an iota of inclination of considering leaving.

Have you?

Now one of us is SvS. How is this a townie thought?

Not being paranoid on your partner doesn’t you scum. Even that argument sounds like something scum might say. I would be if Shiro had done absolutely anything to ping me but he hasn’t. I would leave the dance in a nanosecond if he had.

oh snap that was way way bigger than I thought XD

*sees picture*

Can I examine the book? I mean read I mean yeah

[Titus]

Nancy/Shiro, StD is saying that Nancy isn't stubborn enough for my read to be valid.

How am I not being stubborn? Is STD even reading the same game? I think it’s possible he could be scum but I’m back to hard tr you rn and think it’s still possible he could be confibiased.

Flipped town, townlocked me and he should be listening to players who are much better at reading me.

He totally TRs Shiro and feels it's a big brain play. He feels you're dragging along a useless partner like in Dancing but your partner happens to be town.

He just posted a Toothless gif in the PT.

[Titus]

No I don't want

Aly

limmed

respectfully sir I think you have been pocket'd

Aly's a horrible lim. The only way I vote there is for Rh9.

[Titus]

Lmao

Next to nobody on this site can fucking read me, get out of here with that shit

We grew up on this site together. I think I can.

[Titus]

He totally TRs Shiro and feels it's a big brain play. He feels you're dragging along a useless partner

He feels you're dragging along a useless partner

useless partner

I will go cry now.

Forgive me later for I am sinning.

[Titus]

Nancy/Shiro, StD is saying that Nancy isn't stubborn enough for my read to be valid.

How am I not being stubborn? Is STD even reading the same game? I think it’s possible he could be scum but I’m back to hard tr you rn and think it’s still possible he could be confibiased.

Flipped town, townlocked me and he should be listening to players who are much better at reading me.

That might be my fault. I failed to convey nuance and I think he expects you to be trying to dictate every move Shiro makes if you're T v T.

[Titus]

Lmao

Next to nobody on this site can fucking read me, get out of here with that shit

We grew up on this site together. I think I can.

You were scumreading me for a significant amount of time on TvA

Your VCA regularly gets the incorrect alignment on me regardless of what alignment I am

Most people have essentially random read accuracy on me

Town Alyssa doesn't undermine their supporter. Just saying.

[Titus]

*her

[Titus]

Nancy/Shiro, StD is saying that Nancy isn't stubborn enough for my read to be valid.

How am I not being stubborn? Is STD even reading the same game? I think it’s possible he could be scum but I’m back to hard tr you rn and think it’s still possible he could be confibiased.

Flipped town, townlocked me and he should be listening to players who are much better at reading me.

He totally TRs Shiro and feels it's a big brain play. He feels you're dragging along a useless partner like in Dancing but your partner happens to be town.

He just posted a Toothless gif in the PT.

Good, so he’s mindmelding with me on Shiro. He gets townpoints for that.

Dancing?

???

He loses townpoints for bring dead wrong on me.

So jury’s still out.

A big brain play would have paired with someone other than Shiro because I think he would catch me before anyone else. I’m also not a huge fan of going out of my way to do that to a friend. I have towntold multiple times and am well out of my scumrange, so tell him to take the blinders off because it isn’t exactly hard.

Ok, I cannot handle this anymore. I'm legit hurting poor Shiro. The whole conversation that allegedly happened with StD was fake. He's been offline the entire time. I just did it to show that Nancy would OMGUS without looking under the hood despite the rationale being horrible.

[Titus]

It's even more annoying because most of these voices are town

What info are we supposed to be getting?

[Titus]

Taly, I don't trust Datisi atm.

The problem with singling out which town you want to live means shielding scum partners they have.

[Titus]

It's even more annoying because most of these voices are town

What info are we supposed to be getting?

Thread dynamics

The way marcistar approached the game really gives a ton of info

And the fact that people are focusing a lot on my pairing and the Shiro/HQ one is kinda yikes, considering I think my general idea that scum are mostly posturing and poisoning the well on pairings are very likely to true just off that one flip

I am in agreement here and I almost never go off thread dynamics.

Galron, you, SS, Shiro, HQ, and StD are all pretty locktown for this flip because of it.

I'm going back to my early reads.

[Titus]

If I was to break this by category...

Datisi/Adante + Yrdasse + RH9 + marci

With GL too. I know that's 5 ppl. Sue me.

[Titus]

Galron, you, SS, Shiro, HQ, and StD are all pretty locktown for this flip because of it.

do you really think the entire team bussed marci for the lols?

Not sure but this is me we're talking about.

Find theory. Test theory.

[Titus]

titus, real question

how tf do people like shiro and harley look town BECAUSE of marci flip? because i want what you're having

Come by. You can have stress and booze (well that's later).

Marci doesn't aggressively suggest a lily partner like I said.
Shiro nopes out as scum usually.

[Titus]

I don't think I'd be all that surprised to see a Shiro/HQ TvT flip

They're flipping T v T.

This whole interaction has just tanked my Datisi read.

[Titus]

If we get flipped, please kill Andante first, then gl. Have no clue on the final scum.

Titus and STD should be endgame pair.

I don't agree with this, at least right now. I don't know what the better option is or are yet. Probably GL and Dats, but I'd like to see more Titus I guess.

I am beginning to tr hq.

Agreed.

The part on Titus.

Actually, no. Titus has posted an adequate amount.

I am regretting not making that R rated joke about seeing more of me.

But like the moon, it never would have landed.

Happy holidays.

[Titus]

too many people have too many town pairs. I have only one and yet it seems like everyone wants to dismantle it:
datisi/gl
I mean other is taly/ydra but im just assuming they die in intermission

Au contraire. There's three scum left in a twentish player game. A great bulk will be town. If there's an SvS pair, even more would be town.

[Titus]

Shiro is telling me he wants to leave and that he thinks Ydra and Dats are scum. I’m trying to talk him out of it though. :/

Just the leaving part please. The game needs cookies.

[Titus]

harley, i am going to ask once, this is not an attack, doubt, etc.

can you please share some of shiro’s thoughts from your pt?

none of us are psychic, and can see what you see. i literally just want to know what shiro’s been thinking/doing that he hasn’t in this thread. taly and i both scumread him because we feel he hasn’t done anything -in this thread- that he couldn’t as scum. i just want to know what i can’t see to see if it helps.

Town Taly would know to trust me here if he wasn't agency captured.

[Titus]

Taly, I don't trust Datisi atm.

The problem with singling out which town you want to live means shielding scum partners they have.

I'm aware of this but I don't think there is a solid way to avoid this to some degree unless I withhold information this phase.

What don't you trust about

Datisi

? I recognize that they and

GL

are a strong set pair that seems to suspect other pairs for being a portion of synergistic as they are.

The way they've approached this phase. marcistar flipping gave a bunch of info, suggesting a lot were cleared. Yet, Datisi's focus isn't on boxing out the scumteam. I had to drag Datisi to talk about who might be cleared from marci's flip. Datisi has had a near single minded focus on eliminating Shiro and HQ.

[Titus]

The really worrying part of this game is that basically every scum has succeeded in pocketing their dance partner.

It's more worrying if there's no S v S.

[Titus]

harley, i am going to ask once, this is not an attack, doubt, etc.

can you please share some of shiro’s thoughts from your pt?

none of us are psychic, and can see what you see. i literally just want to know what shiro’s been thinking/doing that he hasn’t in this thread. taly and i both scumread him because we feel he hasn’t done anything -in this thread- that he couldn’t as scum. i just want to know what i can’t see to see if it helps.

Town Taly would know to trust me here if he wasn't agency captured.

do you wanna know a secret titus :>

Sure

[Titus]

harley, i am going to ask once, this is not an attack, doubt, etc.

can you please share some of shiro’s thoughts from your pt?

none of us are psychic, and can see what you see. i literally just want to know what shiro’s been thinking/doing that he hasn’t in this thread. taly and i both scumread him because we feel he hasn’t done anything -in this thread- that he couldn’t as scum. i just want to know what i can’t see to see if it helps.

Town Taly would know to trust me here if he wasn't agency captured.

Don't guilt Taly into anything. He can make his own decisions.

Not a guilt trip. It's an observation.

[Titus]

While I take a breath from the thread + privately consolidate thoughts - try townhunting.

I love this idea.

[Titus]

HQ, who is your townblock?

[Titus]

HQ: Can you do something like

Paraphrase: Shiro’s thoughts bc it's confusing

[Titus]

you know what sure

VOTE: std/titus

at some point in my pt w gl, i pointed out how if marci is scum, there's likely scum in std/titus because she put them above herself (and also i think gl is town) and then i kinda forgot about that but

in warmpupper we trust

This isn't a bombshell case and I hope to make sure everyone realizes im like not confident in shit except for Gl/Dats town lol

you could maybe actually case that to try to get some stubborn fucks off our back pls

As if the agenda wasn't obvious

[Titus]

Holidays people. Time to see the bestie!

[Titus]

Datisi is just attacking whomever gets in the way of eliminating Shiro and HQ. The fact I FoS their pair is an added bonus.

[Titus]

@Datisi,

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Every other pair has a common sense reason why they've got at least one town person. Most pairs are tvt. You aren't focused on announcing who is town and instead picking on the slot most likely to impload when it should be clear they're town via the proposal and Shiro's WIM.

The fact you voted me after they've provided every answer to your questions feels disingenuous. It feels like you're scraping and I can't find any other reason for it.

I want to pin you down on who is town besides GL.

[Titus]

What does WIM mean?

WIM.

@Fire, Maybe it is but the game is largely PoE and I'd like people to check my work. That's the fastest way to change my mind.

[Titus]

Wants it more

[Titus]

i would be most worried about the people not trying to push harley/shiro than anyone pushing them.
and yes STD i know my case is weak and u also are pushing those two.

Why?

@Taly,

This game seems to be devolving into camps. I find that unsettling.

[Titus]

how come that is the only thing you respond to that? and again, i do not care. norwee was town, good job, doesn't mean norwee was right.

What do you feel NorwegianboyEE was wrong about?

[Titus]

fire, i am genuinely starting to think harley is playing ignorant in order to be able to keep shitpushing me

convince me that i am wrong please

pedit: about the harley read? are you even reading?

It's been nagging me that NorwegianboyEE was the one that was largely pushed as scummy despite his partner being the actual scum.

[Titus]

Like anytime HQ comes at u with a "I don't understand this" or "Please help me understand" don't take that bait. She isn't trying to undersatnd u, she is just trying to get u to continue the conversation so she can argue with u more. Thats an FYI to everyone who is getting upset when u get stuck in these argument circles with her.

She isn't genuinely trying to understand ur POV. When she says she doesn't understand what she means is "I don't understand why you dont just agree with me. You should be agreeing with me". Thats all it is.

That's not true. It may seem that way but Nancy has a hard time understanding things that don't go along with her worldview.

[Titus]

@Datisi,

Desperate times call for desperate measures. Every other pair has a common sense reason why they've got at least one town person. Most pairs are tvt. You aren't focused on announcing who is town and instead picking on the slot most likely to impload when it should be clear they're town via the proposal and Shiro's WIM.

The fact you voted me after they've provided every answer to your questions feels disingenuous. It feels like you're scraping and I can't find any other reason for it.

I want to pin you down on who is town besides GL.

are these desperate times? really?

i repeated so many times that firebringer is town. i gave you a readslist like three seconds after you asked for one. i don't know which game you are reading where i don't have any reads but it sure as hell isn't this one.

i am picking on the slot most likely to implode. do you just conveniently leave out that they're most likely to implode ON THE PERSON PICKING ON THEM? *how* does that benefit me in any way???

what about that proposal means the pair is t/t. they paired because they're friends. what are you talking about.

currently shiro is voting me for reasons that have been *unexplained* AT BEST, and i don't see much elsewhere. is this wim supposed to be townie? is shiro one of those players that just doesn't play as scum at all? and why am i, someone who has never played with shiro, supposed to townread him on?

they provided what? i still think they're scummy. i still think shiro's reasoning for voting me is nonsense and harley is being a huge hypocrite. but i can admit that i might be wrong and i'm getting tunneled on distractions.

you already asked me for reads and i provided them and what is this bullshit about wanting to pin me down and you pretending gl!town is the only read i have given in this game

I didn't say you didn't produce reads. That's a misrep. I feel if we were actually talking to each other, you'd see that 90+ percent of the game has been cleared and scum are desperate. That's why the Shiro push gets recycled.

An implosion means HQ is more likely to get limmed on policy. It's good for scum to provoke

I already answered why lily slot is clear based marci not seeking to do that as S v S early.

I want to see what the game looks like to you if you suppose shiro, hq, myself and std are town.

[Titus]

Like anytime HQ comes at u with a "I don't understand this" or "Please help me understand" don't take that bait. She isn't trying to undersatnd u, she is just trying to get u to continue the conversation so she can argue with u more. Thats an FYI to everyone who is getting upset when u get stuck in these argument circles with her.

She isn't genuinely trying to understand ur POV. When she says she doesn't understand what she means is "I don't understand why you dont just agree with me. You should be agreeing with me". Thats all it is.

That's not true. It may seem that way but Nancy has a hard time understanding things that don't go along with her worldview.

Thats basically what i just said.

No. It's the opposite. Nancy tries to understand but struggles. It's the same reason she implodes when pushed.

[Titus]

HQ, do you think NorwegianboyEE was eliminated by his reads or pushed by wrong town who happened to get lucky?

[Titus]

Like anytime HQ comes at u with a "I don't understand this" or "Please help me understand" don't take that bait. She isn't trying to undersatnd u, she is just trying to get u to continue the conversation so she can argue with u more. Thats an FYI to everyone who is getting upset when u get stuck in these argument circles with her.

She isn't genuinely trying to understand ur POV. When she says she doesn't understand what she means is "I don't understand why you dont just agree with me. You should be agreeing with me". Thats all it is.

That's not true. It may seem that way but Nancy has a hard time understanding things that don't go along with her worldview.

Thats basically what i just said.

No. It's the opposite. Nancy tries to understand but struggles. It's the same reason she implodes when pushed.

No, ur basically agreeing with me. Ur just arguing intention with me not what is actually happening. Which I don't even care about arguing over.

Intention is how to read people though and I'm not saying it's pointless just patience is required.

[Titus]

Titus am i right or wrong if i say u don't really think individually what GL or even dats is scummy. You are just poking around what is happening with game and think whats happening with those two smelly.

Like its not an individual read is what im saying.
Right or wrong

Mix of both.
I hate GL's opening.
I hate Datisi's push on HQ and Shiro.
I hate how their reads are carbon copies.
I hate how they don't seem to acknowledge the viable scum pool is really low due to marci interactions.

[Titus]

1) don't remember GLs openning. But okay
2) ill need to review why u don't like dats push on hq but why don't u find my push on them fine but his bad
3) i mean they are sharing a pt and its pretty clear to me they are using it to discuss....u would think they would sync,right? Why is this scummy?
4) i don't think scum pool is at all small right now lol

1) His opening was attacking for attacking's sake. LLD laid this out well.
2) I've already went over that. Datisi feels like there's nowhere else to push atm. StD has reservations on you. I still think Adante is scum if scum in your pairing. I'm keeping an open mind.
3) A lot talking is good. Two players should have their own opinions though. I don't see that.
4) Let's talk here then.

[Titus]

Galron - Disrupted marci plan with LLD
Datisi
Catboi Shiro - Catboi was obvtown, Shiro has insane WIM outside of his range
Taly - IC
RH9
Firebringer - Personally against here
Save the Dragons - WIM, early mindmeld, scum objected to the bond


Ydrasse
GuiltyLion
Cabd Something_Smart - High WIM for SS,
angielily Harley Quinn
Alyssa the Lamb - Alyssa suggesting marci tilted is unlikely svs as it undermines scum.
Adante
Lady Lambdadelta Titus - Me, I feel that the push to force LLD to bond with marci clears me.


Pool is Ydrasse, GL, Datisi, Fire, Adante, Rh9.
Ydrasse isn't getting limmed.
Limming Rh9 is not going to happen w/o a strong case bc sacrificing Alyssa.

[Titus]

Galron - Disrupted marci plan with LLD

ummmmmmm.....don't think so

You don't remember marci's freakout after his proposal?

[Titus]

I didn't see that coming. I'm going to fight marci for this. And I want LLD to endgame.

Wanna hit the dance floor LLD?

Take your time.

[Titus]

from your pov why wouldn't a scum!Galron fight a scum!marci for distancing purposes when he proposed to LLD?

To what end? I don't see a positive outcome from that. Discrediting marci makes it harder to pair. If it looks awkward, you both get sussed.

[Titus]

@Taly, Recency of an opinion has no validity. Alyssa has said it herself. I'm best when making townblocks.

As for the camps thing, I am open to being wrong. Also the environment may lead to town disinterest, which is a problem.

@Rh9, My thoughts have largely been stream of consciousness. Can you say what you think I should have observed?

[Titus]

@Taly, Recency of an opinion has no validity. Alyssa has said it herself. I'm best when making townblocks.

As for the camps thing, I am open to being wrong. Also the environment may lead to town disinterest, which is a problem.

@Rh9, My thoughts have largely been stream of consciousness. Can you say what you think I should have observed?

You should have observed marcistar's attempts at pocketing and see if they could be like what Noraa did in Open 833, when you were still using your TA alt account. Remember how she tried to pocket STD.

Go on?

I'm curious though. What does maristar's pocket attempt have to do with Noraa though? Are you saying it's a global pocketing method? Who do you think she was pocketing and where? I'm generally bad with meta unless staring me in the face?

[Titus]

Galron - Disrupted marci plan with LLD
Datisi
Catboi Shiro - Catboi was obvtown, Shiro has insane WIM outside of his range
Taly - IC
RH9
Firebringer - Personally against here
Save the Dragons - WIM, early mindmeld, scum objected to the bond


Ydrasse
GuiltyLion
Cabd Something_Smart - High WIM for SS,
angielily Harley Quinn
Alyssa the Lamb - Alyssa suggesting marci tilted is unlikely svs as it undermines scum.
Adante
Lady Lambdadelta Titus - Me, I feel that the push to force LLD to bond with marci clears me.


Pool is Ydrasse, GL, Datisi, Fire, Adante, Rh9.
Ydrasse isn't getting limmed.
Limming Rh9 is not going to happen w/o a strong case bc sacrificing Alyssa.

this is like, actually bad
- what was marci's plan with lld? suicide and take down town!lld with her? how is this not something that could be orchestrated so that scum!galron (who also wasn't in a great position iirc) also proposes so that town!lld has more opportunities to accept scum?
- catboi was not obvtown and how is shiro obvtown here? he's done nothing his push on me is nothing
- std has wim? where?
- how is alyssa suggesting marci tiltproposed unlikely as svs because it undermines scum, but gl and i are likely scum after we basically drove the marci wagon? marci was already in a shit position when alyssa said that. either bussing is unlikely or it's likely. you can't have it both ways
- push to bond with marci by whom? gl? that's just preflip which is wrong anyway

like the only people i see the "clears" on are fire and s_s, this poe is otherwise built on such shaky foundation?

Marci may have had many plans. There's obvious two that jump out. Ride LLD coattails and suicide. If you're suggesting marci and galron joined together to suicide, then that makes me town as I am lld. However, Galron undermined marci's attempt (whatever it was) by offering an alternative to LLD. This didn't seem to be expected given GL's response. Galron's actions only served to undermine marci. Unless they felt marci had absolutely failed at their purpose, then Galron's town.

StD has WIM in the PT and in public prior to the holiday.

I haven't determined who "drove" the marci wagon but reading alignment based on "driving" is problematic on two fronts. First, it's hard to tell who was the intended elimination target. From what I saw it was Norway. That doesn't necessarily mean town or scum was driving it. We have many different questions to answer on that factor. If town drove Norway, then it was a happy circumstance that marci got flipped and scum were towards the back possibly after they failed to save Norway. If scum drove Norway, then they likely didn't want his opinions to catch on. If town drove marci, then it's likely scum are on the back. If scum drove marci, then scum are on the front. It's also difficult because the two are related. If Norway has good reads, marci's more expendable. To really get a grasp of that wagon, it takes a bit more than just oh I was in front and hit scum. It's something I plan to start to untangle but it's not clear given two slots die.

As for Alyssa, that reaction is relatively pure. In addition, their explanation, although I hated it, made some sense.

[Titus]

Rh9, I hate to be that person but your last two posts aren't making sense. Can you try again?

[Titus]

I'm liking Datisi's tone lately.

[Titus]

is std's vote on my pair anything other than shallow omgus or? i see he said he needs to reasses gl and i don't see that that actually happened prior to voting us

titus, has this been addressed in the hood? because it sure has not been addressed in the main thread

i'm assuming 5120 to mean you're starting to lean town on me, and i'm confused how does liking my tone overcome all the other issues you've had with me?

The most recent thing in the hood is StD talking about not liking Fire.

I'll mention all things, even if contradictory. My goal is to find the truth, which means looking at everything. Nothing precludes you from being stubborn, confbiased town. The question is if you're that or scum because I am not wrong on my townreads.

[Titus]

so std has not said anything about gl?

Not recently in the PT. I don't think that's consistent with scumStD though.

because I am not wrong on my townreads.

mmm. this is something i associate with your scumgame more than your towngame. question to the table, should i be worried here?

You should always check me out. I have no problems with that. What I do have a problem with is you scumreading me for being correct and standing in your way. That's pride talking. My early game theory is correct so far and I see zero reason to diverge from it.

@HQ, Agency captured townies are townies who unwittingly work for scum.

[Titus]

My working theory is town was likeliest on the front hafl of the wagon

Marcistar - Not_Mafia [9] - Save The Dragons, Alyssa the Lamb,

Datisi

,

GuiltyLion

, Ydrasse, Taly, Not_Mafia, Firebringer, Marcistar

thonk

NM, Marci obviously excepted

This flies in the face of Datisi's theorizing. If Datisi wants me to give him and GL credit for "driving" the marcistar wagon. If that's the case, then why doesn't StD get credit for being the first on the wagon? Why does Datisi still have issues with Alyssa?

[Titus]

I like StD's posting in our PT so far although I am too tired to engage.

yush

VOTE: Marci/norwee

Do u wanna talk STD

we can talk

i kinda think there's scum between you two

we can talk

i kinda think there's scum between you two

Not me, do you have doubts on Marcistar?

yes

yes

...can you elaborate on it?

yes

...can you elaborate on it?

it's mostly recycled from the beginning of the game i need to refresh my read on marci but i don't remember any post after the beginning that was like "oh man never mind she's town"

but otherwise after she came back after her cry, i liked most of the posts. shes still a scumread, but its getting weaker.

anyone who townreads andante has bad reads,

kind of a disconnect between these two statements

emphasis on kind of

This is not scum with marci

[Titus]

Yeah, I tend to agree with this. I think it makes far more sense that town drove this wagon unless scum did it in some desperate attempt to be townread.

Like if I’m scum here, I’d only bus if my buddy was being seriously scummy and Marci didn’t go down without a fight, so that reads as if bus - an uncoordinated bus - to me. And the main reason I think so was Marci self hammer. Why? because it makes everyone offwagon look bad, so that’s why scum on Marci wagon is more likely than not.

This takes us back to the cold war.
StD isn't scum.
Alyssa isn't scum.
Ydrasse's not getting voted.
Taly's the IC.
Not_Mafia and marcistar are dead.

That leaves Datist, GL and Firebringer.

That takes us back to

HQ Shiro Titus and StD versus Datisi GL Fire and Adante...

[Titus]

Why doesn’t he like Fire? Only thing that concerns me at all is his absolute certainty that Dats/GL are T-T and should endgame but he know also thinks me/Shiro are as well, so Idk, I really don’t get STD’s sr?

It's largely a meta read. He would have expected Fire to have left the dance by now. Not sure I agree with that.

[Titus]

So HQ, what are we doing? Datisi and GL or Fire and Adante?

[Titus]

I don't get the point of taking info from a game 2 years old, people change

What's the point of this? I agree meta is trash, but that's all anyone talks about. So what bothers you about that post specifically?

Uh, I think it’s pretty self-explanatory? It’s two year old meta, actually probably closer to three now?

Agreed.

While we're on the topic, any meta prior to September 2nd, 2019 is explicitly invalid. If it would be valid, you can find it closer.

[Titus]

but I will say it's rather amusing to me that multiple people have mentioned not wanting to kill my pairing because they'd lose me

when it's been almost two full days since I added anything to the thread and nobody seems to even have noticed

It's Christmas. I'm not factoring that in on anyone.

[Titus]

VOTE: Fire/Adante

StD we're doing this.

[Titus]

Why do you feel that's T v S indicative as opposed to S v S Alyssa?

[Titus]

marcistar i dunno just feels off. i don't like her "i'm sring Andante but maybe it's lessened" 477 to her "anyone tring Andante is bad" 1439 for example

whats so weird abt it..? theres 962 posts in between?

i- i had fun with you norwee!! ttyl

I’m thinking I like my vote.

Doesn’t look SvS between STD and Marci.

I'm worried that shift is because Fire and Adante are t v T now...

@Alyssa, If there's an S v S pairing, then no one should be SRing their partner.

[Titus]

UNVOTE: Fire/Adante

@Alyssa, Where are your reads then?

[Titus]

it's really hard to figure out a way to progress without causing a self implosion in this game

I actually am coming around to no elimination.

Scum must either

1) Kill in Datisi/GL, HQ/Shiro, Fire/Adante or StD and myself getting info on that stalemate

2) Kill Taly/Ydrasse sorting Ydrasse

3) Kill Alyssa/Rh9, thus eliminating Rh9 as a miselimination

Or

4) Kill Galron/SS removing a miselimination there.

[Titus]

Titus will a Taly/Ydra flip help u out at all besides helping u "sort ydra"

Yes. It's almost certainly S v S pairing if Ydrasse is town

[Titus]

Ugh going to have to disagree with StD here, Fire feels town.

[Titus]

Did no one else see the bad push from titus on galron?? (I really should go factcheck myself on who had the bad push...) just vote dragons/titus and we can deal with next scum after that. it's really not as hard as people are making this out to be

I've had Galron as locktown for ages.

Please check your facts.

It's a bit concerning how gungho you are on my elimination when you don't have your facts straight.

[Titus]

Andante is my

only

scumread

I have a lot of confident townreads

VOTE: Adante

At this point, Adante's reason for scumreading me is fake just to say she has one. No one actually reading my posts believes I currently scumread Galron.

[Titus]

I confused Harley with Titus!!!! I SR Dragons and Harley!!! Harley had the Galron comments I didn't like!! So in my past 10 posts, where I go (might not be titus) yeah no it's not, I SR harley

Which posts did you not like in particular?

[Titus]

SS is town HQ. That GiF is why we can't get anywhere. If y'all would stop FoSing town and cooperate, we'd have scum dead by now.

[Titus]

Galron, I'm not even sure what you're talking about.

[Titus]

I completely disagree on the value of these pages. These pages have forced me to get down and be critical of my reads. They've reaffirmed them mostly.

I don't like the fact Datisi's hating this game (doubt he'd lie about that) and that suggests he's town given the gamestate. This game is immensely frustrating because there's too many cooks in the kitchen and not enough people eating. People are not critically listening but just hoping to get their way.

If people were critically listening, the town have made themselves pretty obvious with high WIM here, which creates this gamestate. This gamestate rarely happens with scum trying to push things. From my vast experience, there's not many players who keep up with this as scum. The usual preferred tactic is to wait for town to slip up or piss each other off to tunnelsville.

Waiting here is doubly likely for scum as absence is NAI. This means presence is townie but town can and will be absent on a holiday. Why would scum show on a holiday and interrupt town ripping itself?

If scum showed, they wouldn't be the ones interfering with the gamestate. Not this one.

[Titus]

reads are so backwards from one another i find it lowkey impossible to actually work with her

I think this partially comes from our differences in how we play the game. I look for, and protect, my towncore. Then, scum eventually fall.

You're looking for scum and willing to risk town. I largely am not, particularly the town that are trying here.

[Titus]

Firebringer & Andante - I'm leaning town on Fire. He's got a high vocal presence (highest poster) but I hardly remember anything he's done. Adante coming back only to defend himself is bad. He showed an agenda to FoS me by blaming me for a push on Galron I never made. That suggests he's looking for reasons to FoS my slot. StD has issues with Fire that are meta. I don't value meta heavily, but I respect StD. - Would eliminate
Taly & Ydrasse - We're not supposed to talk here.
Save the Dragons & Titus - I townread StD due to our early mindmeld and his preholiday WIM.
Marcistar & Not_Mafia - Flipped
Datisi & GuiltyLion - Datisi I went back and forth on before these pages. Datisi feels like discouraged wrong town. GuiltyLion has bad, unsupported pushes and lots of random words about irrelevant things. I have zero idea who he FoSes. Given my inability to see eye to eye with Datisi and my GL scumread, I would eliminate here.
RH9 & Alyssa the Lamb - I strongly TR Alyssa based on the early game, then the interaction where she wanted to kill me, then her presence later on. She's real clear about what she wants. Rh9 on the other hand, is not clear about what he wants despite his number of posts. He says that's style but I'm underwhelmed. I'd compromise on Rh9 if it didn't mean limming Alyssa.
Shiro & Harley Quinn - Shiro's high WIM is inconsistent with his scumgame. HQ has no reason to lie about that and it's present in the thread, minus the holiday. HQ's WIM is insane. Her tonal tells are strong and her reads progress in a nonscummy way.
Galron & Something_Smart - Galron's interactions with LLD are not scum. He outright went against a scum agenda. His reaction to my strong TR was to question it. Then SS, we have the high WIM and LLD's willingness to work with him. SS is a moderate TR.

[Titus]

I forgot Shiro was catboi. Add early catboi mindmeld to reasons to TR Shiro.

@SS can you engage my wall?

[Titus]

GuiltyLion has bad, unsupported pushes and lots of random words about irrelevant things.

Well, this not being scum indicative is the first thing that comes to mind. Clearly he doesn't think they're irrelevant, and if unsupported arguments were scummy then Harley would be all three remaining scum combined, so this feels more like a playstyle/personality clash to me?

Absolutely not. In Situation Room, his reads were on point and supported. He's fully capable of being a stronger player but he isn't.

It's been awhile since I played with scum Shiro, but he doesn't push things as scum. He's also catboi as well.

As for StD links coming right up.

[Titus]

andante is my scumread

oops this isn't my scum pt

144 just reads fake to me

not that i trust scum slips but STD is the one who asked if scum have chat and he had to reply that scum do have chats if he was town.
i don't trust slips worth shit but unless his memory is as shit as me, he might have slipped lol

i only did it because prism did it already lol

Some early town StD posts.

[Titus]

In Situation Room, his reads were on point and supported. He's fully capable of being a stronger player but he isn't.

But is that scummy? I recall his scumgame being pretty solid.

Who's scumreading him here aside from me? That's a sign of a solid scumgame.

[Titus]

You're completely dismissing votes on you and supposing they have a scum motive. It's the same thing HQ is doing but yours comes in a more intellectual package.

Shiro very rarely has WIM as scum. HQ wouldn't fake it either.

I've already locked catboi since post 200 or so. Nothing catboi did was scummy.

[Titus]

my hot take of the day is:

i don’t think shiro is out of scum range from what harley’s provided, and i was expecting the solving to be... more if harley was fully absolving him, but the things he’s saying are just... fine? fine simple takes is how i described them in my initial reaction :<

This is a pocket and push attempt. Ydrasse is clearly reading and just coming in to push Shiro and likely leave.

[Titus]

You're completely dismissing votes on you and supposing they have a scum motive.

i'm assuming this is at me - no, i'm *asking* why i am being voted by a slot i find suspicous. and when i'm consistently not getting answered, i have no other choice but assume it's surface-level omgus.

what made catboi so townie? do you have any experience with his scumgame? i haven't played with scum!him, but i've heard he's a Really Good scumplayer, so locking him at page 200 feels... uh.

Shiro's on vacation. I can't answer for him. Second, you did an OMGUS in my entry catchup when tensions weren't high. Increase tension and get an OMGUS. I'm ok with that. You've been 100% proscum because you are largely pushing town (minus Adante but not really pushing there). Shiro may have more of a reason.

As for catboi, early mindmeld means a lot. Catboi can't fake a mindset to fool me as I wasn't even in the game. Two people approaching from the same mindset independently are very likely to be town.

My early reads have been more spot on and I wind up talking myself out of them.

[Titus]

here's a question for Andante voters

who are marci/Andante's two buddies

it kinda feels to me like voting Andante is somewhat of a cop out today. There's still gonna be the core underlying tension between the HQ/Shiro pair, GL, RH9/Alyssa... like we'll still have to litigate this issue even if Andante flips scum. so I don't understand why voting Andante is a better option than hashing out what we think is going on with HQ/Shiro hard town locking each other, Titus and Datisi being universally townread, and no one really scumreading Galron/S_S anymore.

and I feel like I'm boxed in this weird position by HQ, because she townreads a bunch of slots, and she treats it like it's inherently scummy for me to suspect those slots, so it puts me in a position where scumreading anybody is going to be something she'll use against me, whether it's her slot or Alyssa/RH9 pair or whoever

This is Adante's partner.

Sorry Datisi. It's just true.

[Titus]

Why does scum!Shiro do this when he goddamned well knows that I would be the first one to cstch him if he’s scum?

again, haven't you never played with scum!shiro. what is this based on.

I think what's driving me mad about this game is everyone hard town locking their partner. let's all stop doing that.

except for me, because we all agree Dats is town

I'm actually the best Shiro reader on the site

how many times have you caught scum!Shiro HQ

GL's agenda is for more scumreads here in general.

If he's the best Shiro reader on site, he should agree with me. He's not.

[Titus]

All scum are very likely within Andante/GuiltyLion/STD/Shiro

I would guess at least 2 are

Tell you what. If we eliminate Adante or GL and either flips town, I'll leave immediately.

[Titus]

Well after a last readwall.

[Titus]

I've got Xmas and birthday celebrations with the boyfriend. I'll be out for most of the day once I leave.

[Titus]

I don't want chain leaves

I'm not a fan of them either but we need to get town to actually vote scum.

[Titus]

I think Datisi GL needs more attention tbh.

VoteCount 1.2

Firebringer - Andante [2] - Titus, Harley Quinn
Taly - Ydrasse [0] -
Save the Dragons - Titus [0] -
Marcistar - NorwegianBoyEE [2] - Save The Dragons, Alyssa the Lamb
Datisi - GuiltyLion [0] -
RH9 - Alyssa the Lamb [0] -
Shiro - Harley Quinn [2] - Datisi, Andante
Galron - Something_Smart [0] -

Not Voting [10]

- RH9, Firebringer, Taly, Ydrasse, Marcistar, NorwegianBoyEE, GuiltyLion, Shiro, Galron, Something_Smart

With 16 alive it takes 9 votes to execute

.

Countdown to deadline: (expired on 2021-12-28 20:00:00)

I still don’t know what to do with Marci but way too many slots have both our pairs as srs, so anyone’s actively scumhunting’s lightbulb should definitely be going off at that.

If Marci is scum then i think she's getting bussed. I am tempted to townread my partner based just on how low our slot has been in the PoE lol.

Need to see if GL/Datisi were voting here.

[Titus]

Timing fits on Datisi and GL voting after the Norway FoS. Will double check tomorrow.

Just need to check GL's NorwegianboyEE trajectory after his readwall.

[Titus]

Everybody, rank each pair (except mine - calling IC privilege) on how likely you believe scum resides in them.

{Datisi}
{Titus, STD}
{Fire, Andante}
{Marci, Norwee}
{Alyssa, RH9}
{Shiro, HQ}
{Galron, S_S}

where my head is at I think. I'm actually townreading S_S a lot more now than I had been before today but Galron still my best bet for scum. I also think Andante is looking pretty townie in the exchange with HQ

also all these thoughts are my own I haven't really jammed/consulted with Datisi yet today

Norwee, what has marci been posting in your PT? any update on your read on her?

VOTE: Norwee/Marcistar

- Norwee's explanation for which Prism posts were obvtown was severely lacking
- Norwee's townread on HQ is pockety
- Norwee dodging Taly's offer to dance was weird
- Norwee/marcistar aren't talking about each other much for slots that weren't very firm on each other when they paired
- feeling anxious about S_S/Galron being a T-T pair after all makes me wanna vote elsewhere
- sheeping Datisi

I kinda gut think marci is town but I'm not so confident in it that I don't want to vote here for that reason

and I think I need some real flips or at least wagons to make any real progress. I just said this to Datisi in our PT but I don't get a sense that I've been actively working against scum in this game and that freaks me out and makes me want to vote a weaker scumread, rather than people I've previously been focused on

I quoted every mention of NorwegianboyEE in GL's ISO between his null readwall and vote swap.

Datisi, can you compare the timestamps of the readwall and the voteswap and discuss how the NorwegianboyEE swap happened. GL's ISO doesn't justify it. The vote has reasoning which I need to check, but on its own it's worrying. Also, please comment on how much discussion, if any, came after Norwee's FoS of you guys.

[Titus]

I've got my theory as to who the third is but I'm like 95% sure it's GL Adante Ydrasse.

[Titus]

Are scum playing like an insanely good game or do we just have enough town egos butting heads we can't see the clearing from the trees

I think it's the latter. The problem FMPOV is by and large Titus and HQ townreading Shiro and tunneling Datisi/me for

daring

to scumread that slot, mixed with everyone ruling out RH9/Alyssa pair for ??? reasons.

I am at the point where Alyssa is casing Andante and I need to think about it

I can definitely see Andante scum but I've been kinda just assuming Fire would leave by default if needed and all the arguing between Titus/HQ and Dats/me has felt more important to reach some kind of resolution to, because otherwise that fight just continues into second dance regardless of what Andante flips.

This is the second post trying to divert attention away from Adante without actually townreading Adante. Scum resolve deadlocks via nightkills. We should vote scumreads, yet GL is focused on breaking my townblock.

I keep looking for things to prove myself wrong and find evidence proving my theory instead.

[Titus]

so let's just

make SS/Galron the designated endgame pair

I'm currently ok with anyone but my three suspects with backups of rh9/std being endgame.

[Titus]

1) His opening was attacking for attacking's sake. LLD laid this out well.

who was I "attacking for attacking's sake"? Please quote the posts where you think I'm doing that

I also may not be remembering it but I don't think LLD ever said anything of this sort. Her reason for scumreading me was because I didn't "explain my reads" in one post and then got pissy with her when I found out THAT's why she was scumreading me

also Titus you never responded to this right

Not going to quote my ISO opening again.

[Titus]

Then Datisi can provide evidence of your push on NorwegianboyEE prior to his FoS or more mentions prior to your swap. I am looking for more evidence of your innocence but wind up casing you more.

I strongly feel town you would be voting Adante rather than voting obvtown.

[Titus]

Then give us a clue Adante?

[Titus]

Fire you can help me Lynch Datisi and GL

*puppy eyes*

We're not supposed to use that word anymore

[Titus]

Titus you two. Join me!

After Adante flips scum.

[Titus]

Fire you can help me Lynch Datisi and GL

*puppy eyes*

Shiro this is my biggest townread pair.
I am in fact most worried when i leave. Yall are just gonna yeet them and then we lose the game.
This is one of biggest reasons I haven't left yet, some yall just want them dead and I couldn't disagree more.

Titus you two. Join me!

After Adante flips scum.

Lol fire, you called it. Dats/GL are about to get speed limmed

So confirmed Adante's flipping scum.

You can leave Fire

[Titus]

Slow down. I have a life and job please.

[Titus]

I have no idea of the context of this but I saw it and its hilarious.

[Titus]

Is andante doing a performance because i said the interactions between andante and std were non existent?
This interactions feel a bit weird and it feels weird on both sides.

I legit think the scumteam is just Andante + GuiltyLion + Save the Dragons

So close. Drop StD for Ydrasse.

I'll help you with the other two.

[Titus]

there are way too many players in this game that both believe they are in a TvT pair and that they should endgame

if this was in any way directed at me, I already don't believe I should endgame and virtually never have. Datisi can confirm this from our PT. If Andante flips scum people are going to push me as a partner so the only way I endgame is if we hit like a HQ/Shiro S-S pair or something

this is exclusively directed at my townreads

I don't feel we lim a single scum if I die. So I'm not leaving.

Too much time has been wasted going after people and digging in heels when the game was over by like post 1000.

Let's just sheep me until I'm wrong which won't happen.

[Titus]

I have a pet theory that RH9 is hectic playing some sort of long game. Like in about six months RH9 is going to pop out of a phone both as Mario. Ta Da!

You might be right

his avatar actually kinda looks like Hectic irl.

hello

Now we just need Totus.

[Titus]

Titus was super obvtown and really held a lot of the town together in the first dance - I do wanna see you eat that hat though ;P

Find me a video service. Recording will happen Sunday.

[Titus]

Titus was super obvtown and really held a lot of the town together in the first dance - I do wanna see you eat that hat though ;P

Find me a video service. Recording will happen Sunday.

Oh dear. Are you actually going to eat your hat?

Hopefully, nothing bad ends up happening.

I'm not capable of actually eating a hat (unless I find hat shaped candies) but the image is good enough. The reference came out of Titus meet 1 anyway.