Open 838 – ISITMAINAC [Endgame]

[Three]

Hi, gonna start catching up now.

[Three]

And Three, how's reading going? I notice that you're online but you haven't posted so I am assuming that you are reading.

Yes, I've been reading. I've been at work so it's been slow catching up, I'm just about done now.

[Three]

Skimmed the game. I have a handful of weak-ish townreads and exactly one scumread.

VOTE: RH9

What did you skim to get exactly one scat read?

[Three]

And Three, how's reading going? I notice that you're online but you haven't posted so I am assuming that you are reading.

Yes, I've been reading. I've been at work so it's been slow catching up, I'm just about done now.

Are you reading critically or just skimming?

I've had to rewrite my responses to both you and RH9 now because you've both asked questions that deserve sarcastic responses.

Yes I'm reading critically. The first six pages turned my brain to mush though. Is there any particular reason for the boring shit fights that went down back there? I expected to see something come out of it but Strange doesn't even seem to be on anyone's radar anymore. I have them as a town lean personally, but I don't understand why the suspicion towards them dissolved so easily and with so little fanfare when they never gave a satisfying answer about why they were so focused on STD at the beginning.

[Three]

Skimmed the game. I have a handful of weak-ish townreads and exactly one scumread.

VOTE: RH9

What did you skim to get exactly one scat read?

I’m not allowed to reference the slimy buildup on soap by it’s true name, so I’ve been experimenting with other ways to refer to it.

You said your skimming yield exactly 1 read of an evil doer. What was it that you skimmed that led you there?

That was Jacket, not me.

Also you're allowed to use the word scum. The L-word is the only one that got banned. Commonly used replacement words are variations of eliminate, execute, yeet, etc.

[Three]

Fuck, I’m getting people mixed up now.

Sorry, three..

The question about the one read That’s for jacket. I’m going to bed now

No worries, good night.

[Three]

Preconceptions from before I replaced in was that between A50 and Salsa, A50 read as more town to me so I wanted his slot. Not because of anything he did that was pro town, I just thought his posts were funny. Salsa's tone always just reads as scummy to me though. I want to see what Jacket does since I think I'll have a better chance of correctly reading him.

I'm about to head home so I'll give more detailed reads in an hour or so. But something I gotta say now is that I don't understand how some players have so many town reads. Because the more I read the more I was just like...how? So many players have scummy tones or are making accusations with nothing to back it up or are making serious votes while giving zero effort in actually getting their scum reads eliminated. It's bizarre.

[Three]

And 381 was partially inspired by somebody's reaction to STD in a past game that I spectated where STD replaced in and scumread them.
(STD probably knows what I'm talking about.)

Except that that player was in a different alignment in that game to what I am in this game.
(But I remember that Roden mentioning that this sort of thing has been done, as seen in his post here, in which he mentioned Cook and T3. It was what Roden described as "just some background info on Cook's strat".)

Please elucidate, RH9.

My reaction to

Jacket

was heavily borrowed from the reaction of

Noraa

to

STD

in Open 833. But

Noraa

was a member of the groupscum and

STD

replaced into a slot which was part of the uninformed majority.

However, I'm not a member of the groupscum and hence my self-comparision to

Cook

when she was VT in Newbie 2080 with you and

Roden

.

(Now I'm starting to borrow from

Taly

and

Greeting

in regards to temporarily bolding names.)

This is also bizarre. I don't understand why you're using meta from players who aren't in this game. I don't get why you're linking the Wiki and user profiles either instead of posts that would support the point you're trying to make. It just seems...busy. Like you're trying to make it look like you're making a case with proper sources when that isn't really what's going on.

[Three]

It's late and I'm about to head to bed, I wanted to finish this sooner but here it is.

TOWN

Galron- He's being solvey and I trust the meta reads on him. He's not only pushing people to make reads, but to make

good

reads, which is a pretty important distinction.

Greeting- Tonally I think he's just town. I liked 225 a lot because it's honest and he didn't use the argument as a crutch to avoid having to form opinions on other players. 271 also lines up with my own read on Scorpius which I'll get into in a bit.

Nathann- I town locked this early to be honest. I think the RVS shit fight comes from town more likely than not. I don't see scum's gameplan ever being "I'm going to complain about somebody prolonging RVS". 161 feels like genuine townie frustration.

Strange- I think their fight with Nathann was TvT. The repeated attempts to try to get content out of STD feels like a very townie thing to me as well, the way they've gone about it doesn't come from a scum mindset, in my opinion.

NULL

STD- Nothing stands out to even earn a town lean. I like that he's trying to evaluate and reevaluate others at least. I don't really like that he's being poked to give more content and still doesn't seem to give much more, but it could just be a playstyle thing. 329 stands out to me as iffy though, I don't get why he has so many supposed town reads.

Cupcake- This one's weird because the posts are

fine

, I'm just not getting town vibes. It's nothing that I can particularly point out though.

NM- We'll figure him out eventually.

SCUM

ADSE- Their reads and pushes feel empty and fake to me. I don't like 298 for accusing someone of pocketing but then not making a serious push or clarifying further. 387 just reads as an admittance to lurking which isn't a good look.

Salsa/Jacket- I've already given my read on this slot. I'll add that 139 looks fine but just feels like a performatively busy wall post.

RH9- This is another player that reads as performative. The conversation about SK vibes felt awkward and like an "oh shit" excuse when he was questioned more about it. I also didn't like that he shaded Strange in 111 but had to be coerced into actually voting them.

Scorpius- There's a lot going on with this slot but 345 is pinging me the hardest. The explanation in that post doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, and the exchange between him and Greeting that lead to that post seemed like a fake gambit to try to recover from a read that backfired on him. I also don't like 96, 164, 208, and 239.

[Three]

And 381 was partially inspired by somebody's reaction to STD in a past game that I spectated where STD replaced in and scumread them.
(STD probably knows what I'm talking about.)

Except that that player was in a different alignment in that game to what I am in this game.
(But I remember that Roden mentioning that this sort of thing has been done, as seen in his post here, in which he mentioned Cook and T3. It was what Roden described as "just some background info on Cook's strat".)

Please elucidate, RH9.

My reaction to

Jacket

was heavily borrowed from the reaction of

Noraa

to

STD

in Open 833. But

Noraa

was a member of the groupscum and

STD

replaced into a slot which was part of the uninformed majority.

However, I'm not a member of the groupscum and hence my self-comparision to

Cook

when she was VT in Newbie 2080 with you and

Roden

.

(Now I'm starting to borrow from

Taly

and

Greeting

in regards to temporarily bolding names.)

This is also bizarre. I don't understand why you're using meta from players who aren't in this game. I don't get why you're linking the Wiki and user profiles either instead of posts that would support the point you're trying to make. It just seems...busy. Like you're trying to make it look like you're making a case with proper sources when that isn't really what's going on.

I'm doing it to show why I'm acting this way. I'm borrowing from those players.

Ok but why did you link the wiki and user profiles instead of individual posts or quotes that supported what you were trying to explain?

[Three]

Three, there is one train of logic to help you read me.

I have pushed 2/4 of your scumreads. Do you believe a bus has occurred from me?

I can't confidently if a bus is happening or not on Day 1. With zero flips, pushing people doesn't mean much to me, especially since I could be wrong about my reads. Even if you were bussing and we flip scum today, it is never my first thought to eliminate whoever orchestrated a scum wagon anyway. Unless we find some damning evidence of course.

I feel like asking me if you're bussing or not is a weird way to get me to read you but I kind of get the logic behind it. What's your scum history with bussing?

Bells go off in my head when I read “skimmed”. The fact that you are ingesting the game whole and not coming at us with a “read” from a skim makes me lean town on you and scum on Jacket.

I mean, I've read the game. Don't know why you're being a pedant about my word choice. I'm just holding back a little.

Preconceptions from before I replaced in was that between A50 and Salsa, A50 read as more town to me so I wanted his slot. Not because of anything he did that was pro town, I just thought his posts were funny. Salsa's tone always just reads as scummy to me though. I want to see what Jacket does since I think I'll have a better chance of correctly reading him.

Past track record says I'm skeptical.

Funny though, A50 was one of the slots I didn't like. Figured based on the last game with him it'd be obvious when he's town, and he was...not that, for the time he was in this game. I'll wait and see on you, though.

What made you think A50 can make himself obvtown so early into the game?

STD- Nothing stands out to even earn a town lean. I like that he's trying to evaluate and reevaluate others at least. I don't really like that he's being poked to give more content and still doesn't seem to give much more, but it could just be a playstyle thing. 329 stands out to me as iffy though, I don't get why he has so many supposed town reads.

i meant the townreads on me

Oh.

[Three]

i still like my vote

Same.

VOTE: Scorpius

And 381 was partially inspired by somebody's reaction to STD in a past game that I spectated where STD replaced in and scumread them.
(STD probably knows what I'm talking about.)

Except that that player was in a different alignment in that game to what I am in this game.
(But I remember that Roden mentioning that this sort of thing has been done, as seen in his post here, in which he mentioned Cook and T3. It was what Roden described as "just some background info on Cook's strat".)

Please elucidate, RH9.

My reaction to

Jacket

was heavily borrowed from the reaction of

Noraa

to

STD

in Open 833. But

Noraa

was a member of the groupscum and

STD

replaced into a slot which was part of the uninformed majority.

However, I'm not a member of the groupscum and hence my self-comparision to

Cook

when she was VT in Newbie 2080 with you and

Roden

.

(Now I'm starting to borrow from

Taly

and

Greeting

in regards to temporarily bolding names.)

This is also bizarre. I don't understand why you're using meta from players who aren't in this game. I don't get why you're linking the Wiki and user profiles either instead of posts that would support the point you're trying to make. It just seems...busy. Like you're trying to make it look like you're making a case with proper sources when that isn't really what's going on.

I'm doing it to show why I'm acting this way. I'm borrowing from those players.

Ok but why did you link the wiki and user profiles instead of individual posts or quotes that supported what you were trying to explain?

I thought that I did in 420. The cherry picking is getting on my nerves from somebody who did not skim. And I linked it as a one time gimmick.

I'm not cherry-picking, and post 420 was made after I made my catch up, so that isn't relevant at all to whether or not I skimmed.

I'm telling you that your post came off as fake busy and fake sourced. You linked a bunch of things that didn't require links for a post I honestly don't think was necessary or helpful.

[Three]

Three, there is one train of logic to help you read me.

I have pushed 2/4 of your scumreads. Do you believe a bus has occurred from me?

I can't confidently if a bus is happening or not on Day 1. With zero flips, pushing people doesn't mean much to me, especially since I could be wrong about my reads. Even if you were bussing and we flip scum today, it is never my first thought to eliminate whoever orchestrated a scum wagon anyway. Unless we find some damning evidence of course.

I feel like asking me if you're bussing or not is a weird way to get me to read you but I kind of get the logic behind it. What's your scum history with bussing?

When I play my main, Taly, I strongly prefer not to bus, but I still do it to self-preserve.

I won't say that I play similarly or differently as Cupcake Butterfly. I just do not have sufficient data to give you meta on this alt.

And my question is not just about helping you read me, it helps you flesh out your POV, and I sort you in return.

Makes sense. Then to give you a more definitive answer to your question, for now I don't think you're bussing, I think it's more that we were both pinged by similar things and have a potential mindmeld here if our shared suspects flip red.

What made you think A50 can make himself obvtown so early into the game?

I remembered him being fairly obvious town right away in 2242, but I went back and checked and he replaced into that game, so probably not the best comparison, but still, his content here was entirely fluff/trolling, with basically no real attempts to solve, and making weirdly self-conscious posts about not doing anything rather than...actually making game-advancing content, which he had no trouble doing in that other game.

That's fair, I don't think he did much to get a town read. I don't think he's always obvtown as town though, in the most recent game I just played with him he almost got mislimmed Day 1 for doing exactly what he was doing this game.

Not really happy with how the game is playing out, need to change things up, will try to do a reset tomorrow.

What's wrong with the current game state? It's not particularly active but I think the leading wagons have a good chance of flipping red. Do you town read them?

But something I gotta say now is that I don't understand how some players have so many town reads. Because the more I read the more I was just like...how? So many players have scummy tones or are making accusations with nothing to back it up or are making serious votes while giving zero effort in actually getting their scum reads eliminated. It's bizarre.

Considering I'm probably one of those people, I'll answer this for myself - in gamestates like those, where a lot of people appear scummy for certain reasons and there's not much transparent townieness, the bar for a townlean lowers. I mostly do it for my own sanity, since I feel like I need to have

some

townreads to properly function.

Three, do you have any completed scumgames on the site? I'm digging you tonally so far, but you strike me as an experienced player, so I'd like to check that.

Ok, I can get that. So it's less an abundance of town reads and more like "well this probably isn't scum indicative" reads.

I don't have any scum games on this site yet, and this is only my fourth game here so far. I've played off-site on other forums, but that was awhile ago.

[Three]

Spoiler:

Skimmed the game. I have a handful of weak-ish townreads and exactly one scumread.

VOTE: RH9

What did you skim to get exactly one scat read?

...the game? It's not that long. I have more than one read. I just don't talk about stuff right away all the time. Right now I'm more interested in poking at things and seeing how people react. And why is it a shit read if you didn't like RH9's posts either?

If the game isn’t that long. You shouldn’t have to skim. Your replacement counterpart said he was reading specifically. It concerns me that you are also making me repeat why I’m using different “s” words. I’m not going to explain why I’m doing it again. You can look and read. I’m not calling your read shit even though I think it may be.

I think Jacket replaced in. Got his red pm, and was totally lost because SF had like 2 posts. So he skimmed looking for any mention
Of SF and much to his dismay, found nothing, and is having a tough time generating content because of it. This slot feels… sus, but I’m just a boomer trying to talk like the cool kids.

I've read none of salsabil's posts. And I'm hardly lost.

Why not? Wouldn’t that be the first thing you do?

VOTE: Jacket

Do you really think I got "lost" reading 15 pages? Do you really think that's a thing that would happen?

I seriously can't fathom where Scorpious is coming from with this push.

I can’t for the life of me remember how to snip quotes. Sorry

Re: Nathann’s question about using site mechanics to know who’s online.

In other sites I’ve played on, it’s blatantly against the rules. So it struck me as off. I don’t think it’s AI,

As far as skimming goes. Depends on the context. I would think a replacement would want to read as critically as possible.skimming to catch up in a game you’ve already been active in is much different.

Hot take: I think this is scum distancing from each other. Scorpius' aggression towards Jacket doesn't read as natural; the moment Jacket replaced in, Scorpius immediately had a bone to pick with him. The attacks he's made feel very over the top, and Scorpius' reasoning for scum reading him feel too weak and manufactured VS how he's actually treating Jacket. Jacket also is barely fighting back and doesn't seem to be showing even a hint of suspicion towards Scorpius despite thinking that the case on him is unfathomable.

Furthermore, Scorpius has decided to further put suspicion on Jacket and is tunneling the "skimming" argument, but doesn't have much else to say about everything else going on in the game. He hasn't even acknowledged mine or anyone else's scum reads on him.

[Three]

Yo Three. What do you think about jacket + SM then? Err more specifically salsa and SM.

I didn't think much of them as a duo until you brought them up to be honest. Checking their combined ISOs is interesting though, they were kind of just talking around each other even though Salsa voted Strange. Strange also made a point of claiming to have experience with Salsa, but didn't really try to read her beyond trying to get STD to explain his town read on her. And Salsa just town read them before replacing out.

Jacket's interactions with Strange after subbing into Salsa's slot are very different. They're a lot more direct with each other, and Jacket is actively scum reading them. It doesn't stand out as particularly partner-y, but I suppose they are interacting with each other quite a bit.

Spoiler:

Skimmed the game. I have a handful of weak-ish townreads and exactly one scumread.

VOTE: RH9

What did you skim to get exactly one scat read?

...the game? It's not that long. I have more than one read. I just don't talk about stuff right away all the time. Right now I'm more interested in poking at things and seeing how people react. And why is it a shit read if you didn't like RH9's posts either?

If the game isn’t that long. You shouldn’t have to skim. Your replacement counterpart said he was reading specifically. It concerns me that you are also making me repeat why I’m using different “s” words. I’m not going to explain why I’m doing it again. You can look and read. I’m not calling your read shit even though I think it may be.

I think Jacket replaced in. Got his red pm, and was totally lost because SF had like 2 posts. So he skimmed looking for any mention
Of SF and much to his dismay, found nothing, and is having a tough time generating content because of it. This slot feels… sus, but I’m just a boomer trying to talk like the cool kids.

I've read none of salsabil's posts. And I'm hardly lost.

Why not? Wouldn’t that be the first thing you do?

VOTE: Jacket

Do you really think I got "lost" reading 15 pages? Do you really think that's a thing that would happen?

I seriously can't fathom where Scorpious is coming from with this push.

I can’t for the life of me remember how to snip quotes. Sorry

Re: Nathann’s question about using site mechanics to know who’s online.

In other sites I’ve played on, it’s blatantly against the rules. So it struck me as off. I don’t think it’s AI,

As far as skimming goes. Depends on the context. I would think a replacement would want to read as critically as possible.skimming to catch up in a game you’ve already been active in is much different.

Hot take: I think this is scum distancing from each other. Scorpius' aggression towards Jacket doesn't read as natural; the moment Jacket replaced in, Scorpius immediately had a bone to pick with him. The attacks he's made feel very over the top, and Scorpius' reasoning for scum reading him feel too weak and manufactured VS how he's actually treating Jacket. Jacket also is barely fighting back and doesn't seem to be showing even a hint of suspicion towards Scorpius despite thinking that the case on him is unfathomable.

Furthermore, Scorpius has decided to further put suspicion on Jacket and is tunneling the "skimming" argument, but doesn't have much else to say about everything else going on in the game. He hasn't even acknowledged mine or anyone else's scum reads on him.

So much for being able to read me.

If you're expecting me to blow up in response to getting pushed, that's just not going to happen.

The thing about Scorpious is, his case on me is terrible, nitpicky, and based on a ridiculous theory (I don't read my predecessor as either alignment), but I had sort of liked his posts before that. I have a hard time telling when someone is scum making bad faith attacks on me or town who has the wrong idea. Still trying to work that out.

Kinda hate the AtE in bold. No I'm not expecting you to blow up and I'm not sure why you think I would.

I think your responses to both of our cases feel extremely muted. You're just saying my read is bad and Scorpius' case is bad, but you're not really explaining why. This is especially egregious with Scorpius, because you both answered each others' questions towards each other with further questions that attack the legitimacy of what the other person is saying. You say you're not sure if Scorpius is acting in bad faith, but in the posts I quoted your responses seem to imply that you do think so.

Why do you think he scum reads you more aggressively than anyone else off of something you yourself think is ridiculous if he is town?

Spoiler:

Skimmed the game. I have a handful of weak-ish townreads and exactly one scumread.

VOTE: RH9

What did you skim to get exactly one scat read?

...the game? It's not that long. I have more than one read. I just don't talk about stuff right away all the time. Right now I'm more interested in poking at things and seeing how people react. And why is it a shit read if you didn't like RH9's posts either?

If the game isn’t that long. You shouldn’t have to skim. Your replacement counterpart said he was reading specifically. It concerns me that you are also making me repeat why I’m using different “s” words. I’m not going to explain why I’m doing it again. You can look and read. I’m not calling your read shit even though I think it may be.

I think Jacket replaced in. Got his red pm, and was totally lost because SF had like 2 posts. So he skimmed looking for any mention
Of SF and much to his dismay, found nothing, and is having a tough time generating content because of it. This slot feels… sus, but I’m just a boomer trying to talk like the cool kids.

I've read none of salsabil's posts. And I'm hardly lost.

Why not? Wouldn’t that be the first thing you do?

VOTE: Jacket

Do you really think I got "lost" reading 15 pages? Do you really think that's a thing that would happen?

I seriously can't fathom where Scorpious is coming from with this push.

I can’t for the life of me remember how to snip quotes. Sorry

Re: Nathann’s question about using site mechanics to know who’s online.

In other sites I’ve played on, it’s blatantly against the rules. So it struck me as off. I don’t think it’s AI,

As far as skimming goes. Depends on the context. I would think a replacement would want to read as critically as possible.skimming to catch up in a game you’ve already been active in is much different.

Hot take: I think this is scum distancing from each other. Scorpius' aggression towards Jacket doesn't read as natural; the moment Jacket replaced in, Scorpius immediately had a bone to pick with him. The attacks he's made feel very over the top, and Scorpius' reasoning for scum reading him feel too weak and manufactured VS how he's actually treating Jacket. Jacket also is barely fighting back and doesn't seem to be showing even a hint of suspicion towards Scorpius despite thinking that the case on him is unfathomable.

Furthermore, Scorpius has decided to further put suspicion on Jacket and is tunneling the "skimming" argument, but doesn't have much else to say about everything else going on in the game. He hasn't even acknowledged mine or anyone else's scum reads on him.

So much for being able to read me. If you're expecting me to blow up in response to getting pushed, that's just not going to happen.

The thing about Scorpious is, his case on me is terrible, nitpicky, and based on a ridiculous theory (I don't read my predecessor as either alignment), but I had sort of liked his posts before that. I have a hard time telling when someone is scum making bad faith attacks on me or town who has the wrong idea. Still trying to work that out.

UNVOTE: Jacket

Gonna do the thing and admit my play thus far had been garbage. I’m re-adjusting to MS. I find myself using meta that works on other sites with people that are a little more familiar with each other.

It doesn’t translate well here, I THOUGHT an admission of skimming a replace in role was AI using context from other sites, but the replacement process is a touch different and I can see the flaw in that line of thinking.

Keeping it simple and trying to rebuild my play from scratch to be better here.

That said, RH9 has made me feel uncomfortable this entire game, I also feel there is one scum in the SM/Nathann pair..

This is such a weird response. Do you think I'm just town that's way off course? Why aren't either of you looking at the case I presented?

What's wrong with the current game state? It's not particularly active but I think the leading wagons have a good chance of flipping red. Do you town read them?

I think about the moment when Greeting basically point blank refused to give reads is when I realized things aren't working the way they are. I'm all for minimalism but there's too many people who are holding their cards close to their chest or refusing to do anything, and the whole game ends up as a staring contest.


Right now, Nathann, Galron, CB, Scorp, RH9, and Three are people I don't want to elim, for various reasons. I'd vote any of ADSE/Greeting/N_M/STD/SM.

I see. So then Strange should go if not Scorpius?

Interesting that both of you shade RH9, and then Strange as well after RC brought up that point about Strange and Salsa. This all feels very weird.

[Three]

Also, Three suspecting me is probably town-indicative, annoyingly, because their read on me was similarly bad in my other game and they are clearly falling into the same traps.


I'll believe Greeting has reads when I see them.

Shading my read on you here again isn't good, like I have no idea what you mean by saying I'm "clearly falling into the same traps" because this isn't even close to how I read you in Opossum Mafia. There I fake argued with you about a playstyle thing try to get scum to think I would tunnel you so they would leave me alive, here I'm seeing associations with my biggest scum read and weird interactions between you two.

why does scum do what i've done so far

Alright enough of this. It was mostly getting the ball rolling very very early with a meta read, but you've done this (trying to just stay out of everyone's radar) in two of the other games I've played with you. I think it's well within the possibility here still that you would still try to do that as scum in this game and just go under people's radar until later.

Links to the two games here as well.

viewtopic.php?t=86874&f=11&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go
viewtopic.php?t=87863&f=23&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

Do you think he's playing similarly to those games? It feels like from a quick look at both of those he was a lot quicker to get the ball rolling/provide content as scum than he has been here.

You also only linked scum games. Have you compared it to his town game at all? Do you think there's a difference?

Also, is STD literally the only person you're going to have a read on this game day?

Yes, he is playing similarly when reading those all over. As for comparing it to his town game I don’t think I have compared them to his town games so I’m going to come back to these questions.

As for reads, no but they’re not strong reads, mostly small pings that I’ve pointed out in other posts.

This is really underwhelming for the amount of focus you gave STD.

For reference on his town game. This is also the most recent STD town game as well.

viewtopic.php?f=2&t=88151

Looking through this game, there’s definitely a difference how he’s playing there vs playing here. There they are far more active day 1 with a conversation about policy but I see far more that to me reads like they are actually trying to contribute towards the game. Here and those other two games are far more in the background.

Seeing STD that invested in a game is a first for me. Definitely not typical though as I've seen town STD hang out in the background as well.

i think ADSE is town

Slowly coming around to this. I'm getting the sinking feeling that they're mislim bait.

Were you expecting any kind of answer that wouldn't have boiled down to "they're not here / tactical lurking"?

What gives you the idea my vote is being moved with no real intent? Do you believe I'm not trying to solve the slots I vote?

I missed this.

I guess, no..? I don’t really know how to answer that. I don’t tend to ask questions with any real explanation of the response.

I’m more of the school of thought that if you’re going to bounce around with voting. Why even bother with the ones prior to where you land ultimately? They weren’t significant they were just kinda plopped and moved around.

The more you move your vote the more persuadable you seem imo.

Haven't you moved your vote around quite a bit as well? You both voted four different people. And in your case you purposely made a bad vote that carried no weight when you voted Greeting.

[Three]

Kinda hate the AtE in bold. No I'm not expecting you to blow up and I'm not sure why you think I would.

I think your responses to both of our cases feel extremely muted. You're just saying my read is bad and Scorpius' case is bad, but you're not really explaining why. This is especially egregious with Scorpius, because you both answered each others' questions towards each other with further questions that attack the legitimacy of what the other person is saying. You say you're not sure if Scorpius is acting in bad faith, but in the posts I quoted your responses seem to imply that you do think so.

Why do you think he scum reads you more aggressively than anyone else off of something you yourself think is ridiculous if he is town?

You have a poor understanding of what an emotional appeal is. I'm mocking you because you came in talking about how you think you should be able to read me based on one game of experience, even though you misread me pretty terribly in that game, and now you're wrong on me again (assuming you're town).


You're saying I have a "muted" response to your cases. Why do you think that makes me more likely to be scum? Your read on me is based largely on trying to tie me to Scorp, which I know is both wrong and completely ridiculous. The idea is that because I'm not responding aggressively to him, I must be scum with him. But I just don't respond to pressure aggressively, and you

should

know this. You're right that I felt like his attacks on me were trash, but I try not to reflexively OMGUS people, because I feel like that leads to bad reads. I try to work past the frustration of being accused to determine if the person believes what they're saying. Sometimes this ends up being to my detriment.



If Scorp's town, he misinterpreted me saying I "skimmed" as me not really reading the game and analyzing it. I did read the game, I was waiting for a few hours for the mod to actually confirm me. He seemed to be caught up on some theory about me not reading what my predecessor said, which is an expectation of how to play the game that is completely different than how I actually play. Could he make those attacks in service of a scum agenda? I suppose, but right now I doubt it because his posts that are not about me don't feel scum motivated.

You say I have a poor understanding of what an emotional appeal is then immediately admit to mocking me.

I didn't say I should be able to read you off of one game I played with you. I also didn't misread you there. And you're not really explaining how I'm misreading you here either.

If you think I'm wrong about your ties to Scorpius, explain why, because you haven't done that. You don't have to respond aggressively to his accusations, or mine either. But saying nothing more than "your read is bad/unfathomable/ridiculous" doesn't tell me anything and I'm just left with trying to read your tone and interactions.

[Three]

Why aren't either of you looking at the case I presented?

I'm not "looking at the case" you presented because any argument that I am scum because of my interactions with Scorp is

prima facie

wrong, and there's no actual rebuttal to give. I know I'm town, so I can't be scum with Scorp. Having to make arguments in the form of "If I was scum with Scorp, I wouldn't be playing this way" are almost completely useless. Although it's funny to me you seem to be so confident scumbuddies would act this way, given that I have never seen scum interact the way me and Scorp have.

If you're town, this is an incredibly unproductive tunnel to be heading down. Pre-flip associative reads on Day 1 are almost never right. If you want to make a case for why I'm scum independent, go right ahead and try, and I'll tell you why it's wrong.

I see. So then Strange should go if not Scorpius?

Interesting that both of you shade RH9, and then Strange as well after RC brought up that point about Strange and Salsa. This all feels very weird.

I do not want to eliminate Scorpious. Strange would be my preferred vote, although most seem to disagree. I don't like that they're hyperfocused on STD to the exclusion of the rest of the game. I'd probably vote ADSE over Scorp if necessary for the deadline.

I didn't "shade" RH9, I outright scumread him when I replaced in, although I've changed my mind since then. I have no idea what RCE's point about Strange and Salsa was supposed to be, or why it matters. What are you trying to imply?

I literally just had a two games in a row where scum did exactly what you two are doing, it's really not out of the ordinary for scum to distance from each other. I wouldn't call this a tunnel either, it's literally just an observation I made and an following through on by interacting with and responding to the players I'm trying to solidify my read on. I'm not even voting you so I'm not even sure how this could be considered a tunnel. I know I could be wrong, if I was confident I was right I wouldn't even be questioning you.

I could vote Strange to get a lim in time to meet the deadline but I still think Scorpius is the better choice. If I have to compromise on Strange then fine, since I agree their posts aren't good and my read on them has been dropping.

Shading my read on you here again isn't good, like I have no idea what you mean by saying I'm "clearly falling into the same traps" because this isn't even close to how I read you in Opossum Mafia. There I fake argued with you about a playstyle thing try to get scum to think I would tunnel you so they would leave me alive, here I'm seeing associations with my biggest scum read and weird interactions between you two.

...okay, I didn't realize that was actually what you were doing in that game. I still think your guilt by association reasoning is really bad.

Guilt by association...? I just thought your interactions were fishy.

[Three]

You say I have a poor understanding of what an emotional appeal is then immediately admit to mocking me.

I didn't say I should be able to read you off of one game I played with you. I also didn't misread you there. And you're not really explaining how I'm misreading you here either.

If you think I'm wrong about your ties to Scorpius, explain why, because you haven't done that. You don't have to respond aggressively to his accusations, or mine either. But saying nothing more than "your read is bad/unfathomable/ridiculous" doesn't tell me anything and I'm just left with trying to read your tone and interactions.

This is responding to literally almost nothing I actually said.

This is a direct response though...?

I am not scum with Scorp, because I am not scum, period. I do not need to disprove myself being scum with a player who has not been flipped. Why is that a hard concept to grasp, Three?

Because repeating "I'm not scum" over and over gives me nothing.

[Three]

Guilt by association...? I just thought your interactions were fishy.

Saying "these two people have fishy interactions, they must be scum be scum together" is a guilt by association read. The problem with that read is, if Scorp's town, your reasoning for me being scum falls apart completely.

Are you serious

Guilt by association requires a flip. I'm pointing out your interactions and giving thoughts on them and explaining my reasoning behind my thoughts. I've made it very explicit that it isn't a "guilt by association" read. Why are you even arguing this?

And obviously my reasoning falls apart there. Because I'm going by interactions. I'm not sure what your point is by saying that.

[Three]

Reading the Three/Jacket argument, I was feeling Three is looking better from it, up until the point he started insisting that Jacket offer some rebuttal on why he's not scum with Scorpious. It's just... I'm trying to think of in what way would a person be able to respond to accusations like those without it being a bunch of wifom garbage, or what there is to gain from reading a person's response there.

Because I'm asking if there was some flaw in my logic or if there was something I misrepresented. If I'm just getting repeatedly told my read is bad but not what I got wrong, it doesn't really help me reevaluate.

[Three]

You say I have a poor understanding of what an emotional appeal is then immediately admit to mocking me.

I didn't say I should be able to read you off of one game I played with you. I also didn't misread you there. And you're not really explaining how I'm misreading you here either.

If you think I'm wrong about your ties to Scorpius, explain why, because you haven't done that. You don't have to respond aggressively to his accusations, or mine either. But saying nothing more than "your read is bad/unfathomable/ridiculous" doesn't tell me anything and I'm just left with trying to read your tone and interactions.

This is responding to literally almost nothing I actually said.

This is a direct response though...?

You have continued to ignore the points I am actually making in order to demand I disprove your case about my interactions with Scorp making us scum together. This is in spite of me repeatedly explaining why I believe trying to address such arguments are beyond useless. I find it increasingly harder to believe that this is coming in good faith, that you are that unable to comprehend what I am saying.

What did I ignore? Why is this not in good faith to you but a random death tunnel because you said the word "skim" is?

Guilt by association...? I just thought your interactions were fishy.

Saying "these two people have fishy interactions, they must be scum be scum together" is a guilt by association read. The problem with that read is, if Scorp's town, your reasoning for me being scum falls apart completely.

Are you serious

Guilt by association requires a flip. I'm pointing out your interactions and giving thoughts on them and explaining my reasoning behind my thoughts. I've made it very explicit that it isn't a "guilt by association" read. Why are you even arguing this?

And obviously my reasoning falls apart there. Because I'm going by interactions. I'm not sure what your point is by saying that.

Great. So you're full of shit.

Complete 180. Wow lol.

There's not enough time left in the day, but if I'm alive tomorrow I'm thunderdoming Three.

You've been adamant that I'm town though? And said you dislike OMGUS? Is this supposed to make me town read you?

[Three]

Jacket: "how dare you accuse me of being scum with Scorpius"

Also Jacket: immediately coordinates a mislim on ASDE before I can even respond to shut down discussion, then tells the Vig to shoot NM for literally zero reason before we can even get a claim out of him and thus gets our Doc killed

HMMMM I wonder who needs to die today

VOTE: Jacket

[Three]

I was pushing them but then I looked at their recently completed scumgame and doubted it. Three is blatant scum for their bad faith arguments against me yesterday and insisting I refute their argument that I'm mafia with Scorpious. Since Scorpious blatantly isn't scum with Galron, it completely falls apart and makes it a transparent shitpush.

Hey if anyone actually believes this post then we deserve to lose this game. It was obvious my pushes weren't "bad faith" and you shifted your opinion on me from one extreme to the other even though nothing changed about what I said. Asking you to point out why the interactions you had with Scorpius weren't scummy isn't bad faith, it's literally basic questioning and the offense you took from that is fucking bonkers.

Also how is Scorpius blatantly not scum with Galron? Because Galron voted him? Distancing and bussing aren't foreign scum concepts or game-throwing strategies. You can't be serious here.

[Three]

I can barely get anything else from that ISO. Only thoughts are he asked some questions to Greeting/RH9/Strange that were mildly critical and could be distancing. Interactions very limited.

Asking questions is distancing but voting someone isn't.

[Three]

I can barely get anything else from that ISO. Only thoughts are he asked some questions to Greeting/RH9/Strange that were mildly critical and could be distancing. Interactions very limited.

Asking questions is distancing but voting someone isn't.

So you think that Galron was distancing from StrangeMatter or Greeting? Interesting. Nathann just mentioned SM's lack of content. What if Galron was distancing?

No, that was sarcasm.

[Three]

I can barely get anything else from that ISO. Only thoughts are he asked some questions to Greeting/RH9/Strange that were mildly critical and could be distancing. Interactions very limited.

Asking questions is distancing but voting someone isn't.

So you think that Galron was distancing from StrangeMatter or Greeting? Interesting. Nathann just mentioned SM's lack of content. What if Galron was distancing?

No, that was sarcasm.

Great.

I can't recognise sarcasm and when I try to be sarcastic, it also can't be recognised.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I think it's ridiculous to dismiss someone parking their vote on a player and say that can't be distancing, but then claim that asking another player a question is a sign of distancing.

But then again, Jacket is also saying Scorpius can't be scum for making a bad faith argument against him while I am scum for making a bad faith argument against him. So ridiculous statements should be expected.

[Three]

Also as far as the Galron kill goes, I'm fairly certain it has to be a SK who had him as a town read. ADSE was the only one who correctly deduced that Galron was scum and even noted that he was pocketing Cupcake. Galron was otherwise in the null-to-town range for everyone else.

Town better apologize to ADSE in the post game btw. They actually caught scum and got voted out for it for no good reason at all.

[Three]

Jacket: "how dare you accuse me of being scum with Scorpius"

Also Jacket: immediately coordinates a mislim on ASDE before I can even respond to shut down discussion, then tells the Vig to shoot NM for literally zero reason before we can even get a claim out of him and thus gets our Doc killed

HMMMM I wonder who needs to die today

VOTE: Jacket

There was a deadline approaching. I didn't "coordinate" shit - I would have hammered ADSE even if N_M hadn't because we needed to get a flip and I didn't want to elim Scorpious.

N_M deserved to be vigged because he wasn't playing the game. Trying to blame me as if that was antitown is horseshit.

You continue to out yourself as blatant scum with every post.

You got two players killed over playstyle and both flipped town. Not only were you wrong, you went after LHF and didn't let either of them claim. I refuse to believe you're town here. You don't get to fuck up this badly and hide behind "but they were policy eliminations!" without actually putting in the effort to actually try to read those slots.

I can barely get anything else from that ISO. Only thoughts are he asked some questions to Greeting/RH9/Strange that were mildly critical and could be distancing. Interactions very limited.

Asking questions is distancing but voting someone isn't.

So you think that Galron was distancing from StrangeMatter or Greeting? Interesting. Nathann just mentioned SM's lack of content. What if Galron was distancing?

No, that was sarcasm.

Great.

I can't recognise sarcasm and when I try to be sarcastic, it also can't be recognised.

Sorry, I should've been more clear. I think it's ridiculous to dismiss someone parking their vote on a player and say that can't be distancing, but then claim that asking another player a question is a sign of distancing.

But then again, Jacket is also saying Scorpius can't be scum for making a bad faith argument against him while I am scum for making a bad faith argument against him. So ridiculous statements should be expected.

I am saying Scorpious misunderstood the things I was saying as a result of playstyle differences, and you are scum making a shitpush.

He literally said you were scum because you said skim. What the fuck does that have to do with playstyle?

Explain how I'm making a shit push. Because questioning and asking for rebuttals is not a shit push, that's just playing the game.

I can barely get anything else from that ISO. Only thoughts are he asked some questions to Greeting/RH9/Strange that were mildly critical and could be distancing. Interactions very limited.

Asking questions is distancing but voting someone isn't.

Scorp was literally the only person Galron pushed to elim and Scorp reacted in a very non-partnery way. Are you seriously still trying to argue that Scorpious is mafia? Because there is no way anyone looking at the game from an intellectually honest point of view could think that.

I'm sorry, do you think partners who distance from each other are supposed to make a public disclaimer that they are indeed partners distancing from each other?

Also as far as the Galron kill goes, I'm fairly certain it has to be a SK who had him as a town read. ADSE was the only one who correctly deduced that Galron was scum and even noted that he was pocketing Cupcake. Galron was otherwise in the null-to-town range for everyone else.

Town better apologize to ADSE in the post game btw. They actually caught scum and got voted out for it for no good reason at all.

LAMIST

Desperate.

[Three]

Yo I don't really want to play yet another game where scum gets caught but town listens to them anyway and acts shocked when we lose. Like this shit seems really obvious to me but it's already becoming clear pushing out obvscum is going to be such a needless struggle.

Town Doc and Mafia Roleblocker are both dead. Vig 100% can't be stopped today. I will just volunteer myself as today's elimination to stop this bullshit in its tracks, Vig just needs to shoot Jacket today. This is just preferable to me at this point, because I really don't want to have to argue for however many days we have that Jacket is obvscum just for me to get mislimmed anyway and then everyone forgets Jacket got caught after I'm dead.

[Three]

Yo I don't really want to play yet another game where scum gets caught but town listens to them anyway and acts shocked when we lose. Like this shit seems really obvious to me but it's already becoming clear pushing out obvscum is going to be such a needless struggle.

Town Doc and Mafia Roleblocker are both dead. Vig 100% can't be stopped today. I will just volunteer myself as today's elimination to stop this bullshit in its tracks, Vig just needs to shoot Jacket today. This is just preferable to me at this point, because I really don't want to have to argue for however many days we have that Jacket is obvscum just for me to get mislimmed anyway and then everyone forgets Jacket got caught after I'm dead.

Desperate.

Go on...

Yo I don't really want to play yet another game where scum gets caught but town listens to them anyway and acts shocked when we lose. Like this shit seems really obvious to me but it's already becoming clear pushing out obvscum is going to be such a needless struggle.

Town Doc and Mafia Roleblocker are both dead. Vig 100% can't be stopped today. I will just volunteer myself as today's elimination to stop this bullshit in its tracks, Vig just needs to shoot Jacket today. This is just preferable to me at this point, because I really don't want to have to argue for however many days we have that Jacket is obvscum just for me to get mislimmed anyway and then everyone forgets Jacket got caught after I'm dead.

Alright, before you go

Greeting

in Newbie 2084, please explain to me simply why

Jacket

is scum. Because I honestly fail to see it.

Then pay attention.

[Three]

Jacket if you're town this should be the easiest vote of your life. If I flip anything other than town, you won't get Vig'd. Seems like a pretty good deal to me, you get to eliminate me without any further argument here.

VOTE: Three

[Three]

Oh, a bluff how? Please tell me how I could bluff my own mislim.

Btw you read as terrified.

[Three]

Are we not playing the same game here Jacket? We're at an impasse: you think I'm scum, I think you're scum. We want each other eliminated. Unless you think we're going to somehow find each other as town, what would be the point of keeping us both alive?

Furthermore, why did you tell the Vig to kill NM anyway? He voted the player you wanted to eliminate. Why not ask to have me Vig'd if you think I'm obvscum? I feel like that just makes it obvious you want me around as mislim option.

[Three]

Almost half the players alive havn't even posted yet, and Three is supposedly throwing in the towel because it's totally hopeless to elim me and they need to die to make it happen? Fake. So fake.

How is "here's a plan to guarantee scum elimination" throwing in the towel?

I have exactly zero fear of getting vigged if Three flips town, because it would mean their reads were gamethrowingly bad and the game was unwinnable anyway. They're not own though.

You literally read the game so poorly that you got two townies killed on a whim, one of which was our Doc.

[Three]

I think this is time to say halt to this and wait for others to weigh in. I’m not exactly the person to be lecturing others on self-hammer/self-vote play, but I am calling for some restraint here.

Three

’s attempt at that might be townie play, and I can say that, because I’ve done this before in mafia games as town, naively hoping I would be the hero of the game. Spoiler: I wasn’t, and one of the two games where I did this was lost.

People go "oh wow would scum really selfvote here" and big brain themselves out of it. You're not a newbie so you shouldn't be pulling this type of shit as town, It's totally premature and makes no sense from that perspective. Getting mis-elim'd here is potentially game-losing for town. That's why it's a bluff.

This isn't a gambit or hero play, wtf. It's PoE. This really isn't a difficult concept.

[Three]

Did everyone just lose their mind?

Say we settle within three/jacket and both are town:

7/2 --> 4/2 IF scum shoot outside of jacket/three and vig/SK shoots within

3/2/1 if vig is SK

Or 7-2 -> 5-2 if vig/sk holds gives us
4/2/1 if SK

Massclaim can be tomorrow regardless of what we do today.

Then vote Scorpius. Look at how Day 1 ended, that was not a town-driven elimination.

Or just vote Jacket because he called me obvscum but then demanded ADSE get mislimmed and NM get Vig'd.

[Three]

Also has nobody else noticed how over the top Jacket's reactions and attacks on me have been? He's gone from town reading me to scum reading without changing the actual reasoning for his read on me. And the attacks themselves are very shallow; the contents of his attacks consist almost entirely of either trying to guilt me for "misreading" him, or making personal attacks against me/my skill at the game to make me doubt myself.

And finally, his reaction to the deal I'm offering betrays just how terrified he actually is here. There is no reason for him to be so confident that I'll flip scum but then hesitate and say I'm bluffing. Like what? Just vote me lol, pre-emptively defending yourself even though he supposedly "knows" that I'm scum proves he's really just full of shit. It's possible he thought I was SK and that voting me out today would buy him time, but then realized he's fucked since SK would care more about self-preservation.

Also generally makes no sense for him to get upset at me if I'm scum since I'd just be playing to my wincon. Yet he's somehow offended by what I've said, yet also believes that I'm obvscum. The math isn't adding up here.

[Three]

So much for being able to read me. If you're expecting me to blow up in response to getting pushed, that's just not going to happen.

Well...

[Three]

I feel confused about Three. I can't understand the selfvote.

Are you serious? I've explained it three different times now.

[Three]

Are we not playing the same game here Jacket? We're at an impasse: you think I'm scum, I think you're scum. We want each other eliminated. Unless you think we're going to somehow find each other as town, what would be the point of keeping us both alive?

Furthermore, why did you tell the Vig to kill NM anyway? He voted the player you wanted to eliminate. Why not ask to have me Vig'd if you think I'm obvscum? I feel like that just makes it obvious you want me around as mislim option.

I didn't suggest keeping us both alive, what are you on?

If you're not paying attention, there's more than one scum. N_M was plausibly scum, and if he wasn't, was playing anti-town. That's the ideal use of a vig shot because it saves you a day voting him out. In what world are you more mislim bait than N_M? That's complete nonsense, if I was scum I'd want him alive as long as possible.

Absolutely awful post, completely disingenuous reasoning.

Hey so I'm not going to be responding to most of your posts here because you just devolved into ad hominem and personal attacks, to the point of borderline harrassment and making the game miserable to have to read.

But can you please actually explain why you considered NM as more worthy of getting shot by the Vig instead of me? Why NM, who's alignment is unknown to you, instead of me, who you believe to be obvscum? Why kill someone who could maybe be scum instead of someone you're actually convinced is scum?

[Three]

Does anyone think Jacket's behavior is genuine? Anyone at all?

[Three]

There's so much to respond to and unpack but I'll have to get to it later when I have time. Right now I just want to go over the concept of this game supposedly being solved.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads, and RC as our IC. That leaves only five players left, two of which are scum and one of which is SK. However, we also have a Vig, and likely a Cop as well. If the town reads are correct, we win by claiming today, and even if we decide against claiming the PoE is so ridiculously small that we still just win.

The PoE in this case is Greeting/Looker/Nathann/RH9/STD. Jacket thinks RH9 is town, and I'm fairly certain Nathann is town. Which leaves the hero solve as Greeting/Looker/STD, who all have had suspicion this game as it is anyway. Looker would be my first choice in this case, since I think Strange looks worse today than he did Day 1, he was the most suspicious out of PoE Day 1, and Looker upon replacing in isn't looking particularly townie.

If you guys are actually confident that Scorpius, Jacket, and I are all town, this kind of has to be the route we take here.

[Three]

There's so much to respond to and unpack but I'll have to get to it later when I have time. Right now I just want to go over the concept of this game supposedly being solved.

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads, and RC as our IC. That leaves only five players left, two of which are scum and one of which is SK. However, we also have a Vig, and likely a Cop as well. If the town reads are correct, we win by claiming today, and even if we decide against claiming the PoE is so ridiculously small that we still just win.

The PoE in this case is Greeting/Looker/Nathann/RH9/STD. Jacket thinks RH9 is town, and I'm fairly certain Nathann is town. Which leaves the hero solve as Greeting/Looker/STD, who all have had suspicion this game as it is anyway. Looker would be my first choice in this case, since I think Strange looks worse today than he did Day 1, he was the most suspicious out of PoE Day 1, and Looker upon replacing in isn't looking particularly townie.

If you guys are actually confident that Scorpius, Jacket, and I are all town, this kind of has to be the route we take here.

Okay, so firstly - who said or even suggested that this game is solved? You say "supposedly" which implies that it has been said before, but I see no such statement from anyone.

Secondly, I am not sure what consensus you're referring to. The only player I definitely think is town is

Nathann

.

Scorpious

and

Jacket

are definitely edging towards the townie side, but I do not include either in my townreads. If you're mentioning a consensus, then please explain to me how you think it came by and what is it exactly.

Finally, when it comes to suspicion on me - the only person who ever majorly suspected and questioned me in this game is

Jacket

. They haven't made it clear what their position on me is as of now. Why would I be included in a list with

StrangeMatter

and

Save_The_Dragons

who both have been suspected by various players? I mean, you're free to point at players who you think is scum as you like, but you're implying that this list is supported by the opinions of others, yet I see no other support.

This doesn't feel like a genuine way of thinking. There's so many holes in this.

You know a lot of the questions you ask me could be answered if you just...read the game. This is the second time I've had to say this now.

[Three]

Can't wait to get voted for telling people to read. I know it's coming.

[Three]

So for whatever wild reason, I'm being lead to believe that Scorpius, Jacket, and myself are likely all town. That seems to be the consensus right now, correct?

So with have three consensus town reads...

Are we reading the same game? I can see Scorpious and Jacket being consensus townreads, but I don't remember you being townread, let alone that being consensus.

Also, why are you supposedly fine with Jacket being considered town here? Why are you trusting his RH9 read?

Are we really going to pretend I'm not obvtown

I'm not fine with Jacket being town here but nobody's fucking listening to me. So going by the logic that is being pushed, I'm completely wrong and the PoE is instead so miniscule that we still basically auto win. This really isn't a hard concept. And I don't understand the point of getting mad at me for tunneling Jacket and then questioning why I'm coming up with alternative elimination routes.

"But you're not a town read!!!"

Then fucking vote me like I told you to several days ago. Holy shit. Why are we even arguing this?

This game has been the very definition of players wanting to have their cake and eat it too, and it's severely killing my WIM. To the point where I genuinely just prefer to get voted out here so the Vig can kill Jacket, because I don't see any other way to save town from themselves other than through brute force solving.

[Three]

It's the fact that the SK has been more helpful to town than actual townies that's getting me.

[Three]

Can you answer my 771 when you can, please? From what I saw of VCA, Scorpious looked unaligned with Galron to me, could you expand on that? Or link to where you have if you have.

I've just given up on this game since it's ending up like every other town game I've been in where people scum read me for being right. If you can't read one page of posts right before the hammer happens then I can't help you, because I'm not quoting 20+ posts when you can literally just read EoD and come to the obvious conclusion.

The fact that even now, when Jacket continues to take pot shots at me and call me obvscum, he refuses to follow the plan to vote me and got scared when Looker suggested going through with it should speak volumes. But whatever. My WIM is dead and I'm ready to end today.

[Three]

What would this even achieve if it was AtE? I know I'm not being pleasant right now and I literally keep saying to vote me. If I wanted to actually AtE it would be extremely easy, I'd just post like Jacket has been. I can read the room enough to know playstyle is being prioritized much more than actual content when it comes to who's getting eliminated, that's why ADSE got voted even though content wise they were fairly townie, as well as why RH9 got so much heat this game.

As far as telling people what page to look at, I already

have

. When I say look at EoD, there shouldn't be confusion.

[Three]

What would this even achieve if it was AtE? I know I'm not being pleasant right now and I literally keep saying to vote me. If I wanted to actually AtE it would be extremely easy, I'd just post like Jacket has been. I can read the room enough to know playstyle is being prioritized much more than actual content when it comes to who's getting eliminated, that's why ADSE got voted even though content wise they were fairly townie, as well as why RH9 got so much heat this game.

As far as telling people what page to look at, I already

have

. When I say look at EoD, there shouldn't be confusion.

This is hindsight talking. My problem is what happens if we flip jacket and they're green? Because we have to flip you at that point. And IF you're throwing this tantrum as town then that's just game over with three consecutive town flips.

You might not care but I'm sure people here do want to play to win and there is always a way for town to win with correct play. We just have to find the correct play. If vig wants to pop a shot at jacket that's fine, I can't make anyone do anything, even if I don't think it's the right play. I'm always against vig free firing but that's theory that won't sway anyone that's already fired blank into the crowd.

Except I gave an alternative and nobody cared about that or just flat out yelled at me.

"BuT tHeRe IsN't A gEnErAl CoNsEnSuS"

Then who the fuck are we voting. Literally who do we vote if people think I'm scum but maybe not scum but also Jacket isn't scum but could be scum and Scorpius isn't scum but maybe we should vote them because Three said he considered the fact he might not be scum.

Like does nobody see why I'd be pissed off and annoyed in this situation?

[Three]

Especially since Jacket refuses to shut the fuck up? Like for real my dude, if I'm dead wrong and you're not scum or even SK, I'm embarrassed by your behavior.

[Three]

Especially since Jacket refuses to shut the fuck up? Like for real my dude, if I'm dead wrong and you're not scum or even SK, I'm embarrassed by your behavior.

I've barely even said anything to you the past couple days. You're flailing.

Do you think that excuses your shitty behavior from the rest of the game?

[Three]

I said your case is bullshit and called you scum for it. Keep crying about it.

No, you didn't. You cried and screamed and made multiple personal attacks against me for even suggesting you could be scum. I wasn't even voting for you and you still lost your god damn mind. You don't get to back out of that now.

[Three]

That was probably too harsh. I'm sorry if I hurt your feelings, but as part of this game I cannot assume good intentions on everyone's part by default. You have continued to make illogical and even outright dishonest arguments for me being scum and ignored everything that contradicts your reasoning while continuing to repeat the same bad arguments ad nauseam. I find it hard to believe someone who is actually trying to solve the game could believe the things you do. And nothing right now tells me you aren't flailing scum who's getting emotional in the hopes of using it to escape elimination.

I literally never ignored anything. You keep claiming I do but I answered every single statement and gave leeway to say what could be possible town explanations. You responded by screaming and calling me names. Apologizing now to save face now that you're being called out on your horrible behavior doesn't mean shit to me.

[Three]

Last I checked, you're the one who's doing the self vote and AtE routine while complaining about the game. But I'm the one crying and screaming.

Pretty obvious this doesn't reflect reality.

You know what? This isn't worth it. I was perfectly okay talking about the rest of the game and ignoring you until you came in. You're just baiting me to try to rile me up again. I'm done with you.

What do I even get out of riling you up here? You keep accusing me of being illogical and arguing and bad faith then immediately do exactly what you're accusing me of. Do you not realize how much this just looks like projection?

[Three]

I mean there isn't much left to do today IMO. I keep trying to gauge what everyone thinks of the game state and I keep getting contradictory answers. I say vote me and Vig Jacket and I get told no because we could both be town. So I say ok, then let's vote within the PoE that leaves then and I get told no because me and Jacket could be scum. The game state is just halted at this point.

[Three]

Almost changed my vote in time. Damn.

Enjoy the free win Jacket.

[Three]

Well unless the Vig decides to listen to scum again I guess.

[Three]

Guess.

[Three]

Sigh. Just another game where I catch scum but get voted out instead, and town let's the caught scum endgame because they threw a fit for a literal straight month and nobody wanted to deal with it. From now on I'm just going to policy elim anyone who does this because it's getting kind of old.

GG, and thanks for modding Cook.

[Three]

Sigh. Just another game where I catch scum but get voted out instead, and town let's the caught scum endgame because they threw a fit for a literal straight month and nobody wanted to deal with it. From now on I'm just going to policy elim anyone who does this because it's getting kind of old.

GG, and thanks for modding Cook.

I will be blunt: You had a correct read, but for entirely incorrect reasoning. Don't forget that your entire basis for the initial read was that Scorpious and I were distancing from each other, which was untrue. Have a little humility and remember that you weren't exactly perfect. Take a look in the mirror before blaming others here.

Your logic was absurdly poor, and it made it incredibly easy to argue against you and get you eliminated. Having correct reads is only part of the game. The other part is convincing people, and if you make weak/fallacious arguments, scum are going to focus on debating those points to make you look bad. Demanding I disprove your argument that I was scum with Scorpious was laughably bad and I would've trashed you as town too. If you'd kept your points simpler and less outlandish, it might have been more persuasive.

Ok, first off, you didn't "trash" anyone. You cried and screamed and even weeks after I was dead you continued to insult me and make everyone feel as uncomfortable as possible. You also made multiple attempts to use OOG threats to stop people from voting you. Threatening to black list anyone and everyone who scum read you was fucking bonkers and should've been called out as poor etiquette and sportsmanship. You didn't persuade anyone, you just cried until you got what you wanted.

Second, I got you for way more than the Day 1 interaction. Your weeks-long meltdown and defensiveness was a scum tell, your refusal to engage with reads on you was a scum tell, the orchestration of the ADSE mislim and NM Vig was pointed out multiple times, and my deal to 1v1 trade with you showed your true colors and got you caught red handed with your reaction.

[Three]

I tore you apart, you had a meltdown, selfvoted, and got eliminated. I endgamed because you're bad at arguing and no one cared about your opinion. You lost pretty hard.

You literally do anything? I self voted to take us both out but town refused to follow through. You end gamed because you threatened to scream at and blacklist anyone who voted you.

If you can't discard your overblown ego you're going to continue to fail in exactly the same manner. Any skilled scum player is going to run circles around you in an argument.

Literally what ego. I proved you were scum and town ignored it because you made OOG threats. The revisionist history here is appalling but I don't expect anything different after seeing how you acted this entire game.

[Three]

I tore you apart, you had a meltdown, selfvoted, and got eliminated. I endgamed because you're bad at arguing and no one cared about your opinion. You lost pretty hard.

You literally do anything? I self voted to take us both out but town refused to follow through. You end gamed because you threatened to scream at and blacklist anyone who voted you.

If you can't discard your overblown ego you're going to continue to fail in exactly the same manner. Any skilled scum player is going to run circles around you in an argument.

Literally what ego. I proved you were scum and town ignored it because you made OOG threats. The revisionist history here is appalling but I don't expect anything different after seeing how you acted this entire game.

I played up my frustration at RCE and called him a bad player who I didn't want to play with. That's not the same as threatening a blacklist (and he was already voting me anyway), and I didn't do it to anyone else. Faking that frustration is a valid tool. Maybe went a little over the top but I don't think it was a deciding factor.

You lost, because you played very badly. You don't have bad instincts (well, maybe) but your charisma is virtually nonexistant. I'm just trying to help you out. Self-improvement starts with recognizing where you went wrong. But if you want to be a spoilsport and cry about how it's everyone else's fault, go ahead.

One of the worst excuses for a player I've ever seen. Stay out of my games, thanks.

I have exactly zero fear of getting vigged if Three flips town, because it would mean their reads were gamethrowingly bad and the game was unwinnable anyway. They're not own though.

Or just vote Jacket because he called me obvscum but then demanded ADSE get mislimmed and NM get Vig'd.

Again, flagrant istortion of the truth. You're obvious scum. We also had barely any time left before deadline and very little activity. Even if I could have convinced people you were 100% mafia it was unlikely there would be enough time to get a wagon on you. It's better to have an elimination day 1 than none. This is basic stuff. Of course, it's convenient for scum to sit on their own on a vanity wagon and then blame town for the mis-elim.

Again, you're being absurdly fucking disingenuous right now, I swear to god, if no one else sees this the game is an absolute disgrace.

VOTE: Looker

Three sucks. Obnoxious player. Not dealing with them again.

RCEnigma, is massclaim a good idea here? Considering the shortened deadline, we should get to it if we're planning to.

Yes, it's MeLo so we lose on a miselim. I mean I'm kinda ready to lose this game already but if you want my input I'll give it.

We do not have a Vig but we do have at least 1 more pr for the town.

SK with roleblocker means we rolled T 1 or 3 times.

I also have a loose order I'd want claims in I think. But I see some merit in massclaiming by role and not by slot.

Has to be a vig because of 3 deaths N1, right?

I just wanna like elim jacket and if we lose we keep it moving.

But I'm out right now so I'll give some attention to the game maybe later tonight.

I would recommend not throwing the game just because Three got stupidly tunneled.

I think it's really super obvious to anyone that's not Three that Scorp wouldn't try to bus his teammate immediately on replace in. But maybe that's because I'm biased.

Still haven't heard an actual reason why RCE seems to think I'm sum beyond Three's shitty case pairing me with Scorp.

No but yeah I'm just mad that I lost and definitely not because you made OOG threats and constantly made personal attacks and insults while projecting your own shitty attitude onto me. Even now you refuse to admit to your behavior and resort to more personal attacks. Even in the post game you can't help but make it miserable and uncomfortable to read your posts.