Micro 1044: A Normal Blitz V - Game Over

[Vanderscamp]

FIRST

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Vandercamp
The animals are taking over

Oh, no!
VOTE: Dorsey

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: Jacket

Little Green Wheels is town I think, the post above me says so.

Okay. Why's that make me scum?

Weird question

[Vanderscamp]

And I stand by that!

[Vanderscamp]

And I stand by that!

[Vanderscamp]

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I've seen it done on another site, it's generally not as interesting as people assume it would be.

[Vanderscamp]

Yes, exactly that, I just like getting wagons going early.

This is a real vote though, I think you've read everything aimed in your direction as unduly serious in a way that suggests a scummy hypersensitivity.

I agree with this.

[Vanderscamp]

And for the record, I have no particular reason to try to inspire movement in this game as mafia

What movement do you think you've been inspiring that hasn't revolved around you?

[Vanderscamp]

And for the record, I have no particular reason to try to inspire movement in this game as mafia

What movement do you think you've been inspiring that hasn't revolved around you?

Why does that matter? I generate conversation, I get reads. The fact that the conversation is

about me

would be counter-productive as mafia. As scum I could have easily just lurked and let the game stay slow. The activity as it is is rather uninspired for a blitz.

It matters because it's meaningless to say that you wouldn't inspire movement as mafia if the only movement you're "inspiring" is based around defending yourself.

[Vanderscamp]

VOTE: vanderscamp

Feels opportunist, catchup is really hollow.

I think it's decently deep for two and a half pages into a game.

[Vanderscamp]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

[Vanderscamp]

I think shiki's posts on page four have a towny thought process.

[Vanderscamp]

Yes, exactly that, I just like getting wagons going early.

This is a real vote though, I think you've read everything aimed in your direction as unduly serious in a way that suggests a scummy hypersensitivity.

I agree with this.

Which part are you agreeing with?

The second part.

[Vanderscamp]

Saying "Oh hey Umlaut is scummy," and then in the same post saying "okay I guess I don't want to murder him yet," and then just up and voting me anyway, is exactly the kind of madness that tells me Datisi is town though.

I think this is a fair take.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

[Vanderscamp]

Yeah, Vanderscamp is just scum here.

I'm not!

What do you think I've said is scummy?

[Vanderscamp]

I think Dorsey has the highest chance of being scum because I really didn't like their read that shiki was scum for not voting.
Having that read in the first place was somewhat fair, but the part I really didn't like was him maintaining the read when shiki gave a pretty strong justification for it, including stating that not voting is something she often does.
I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.
My townread on shiki is stronger than my scumread on Dorsey.

I still dislike Jacket's defensiveness and his reads, but I'm less sold on this being scum indicative now and more thinking it is just his playstyle to take things too seriously. The biggest part of me gaining this read was when he said "congratulations" when someone said they thought he might be a serious player or whatever it was.

I'm also happy to sheep Umlaut's read saying that Datisi wouldn't say they didn't want to kill Umlaut but then voting there anyway for a minor town lean.

[Vanderscamp]

Yeah, Vanderscamp is just scum here.

I'm not!

What do you think I've said is scummy?

It feels inauthentic.

There's not too much I can say to this other than that you're wrong, happy to answer any actual questions you have for me though.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

I also have Cape as light scum because this is a baffling read.

I think it's pretty unlikely that Cake and Dorsey are scum together though because of how bad the read is.

Cake did have the same conclusion of Shiki's townieness earlier which I did like so this read is not as strong.

[Vanderscamp]

FWIW Dorsey my vote started as an RVS OMGUS but has since become real, and not because you voted me.

[Vanderscamp]

I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.

this part personally rubs me the wrong way

it feels like a sorta stretchy reason for suspecting someone for not having a read they think they should have, and after (i think) no attempts to engage with dorsey about it

but yeah i don't have a whole lot more than ~vibes~ and i'm genuinely curious what jacket is thinking about right now

My main reason is that I feel that when shiki said "I often don't RVS vote as either alignment" that statement was obviously true regardless of alignment, on top of shiki sounding town anyway.

When Dorsey's opinion on it didn't change at all it made me think the read was fake.

[Vanderscamp]

I also have tried to engage with Dorsey about it, here:

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

[Vanderscamp]

Vanderscamp got better later on. Had initially felt like he was scum gearing up to push me but his posts about other stuff are all right.

Yeah, I was gearing up to push on you, but I changed my mind.

[Vanderscamp]

Dorsey, you're doubling down here on suspecting shiki for not voting.

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

Do you think shiki is lying about this?:

and no of course not but i also do not think it was necessary for me to rvs vote ?

sometimes i rvs, i often do not, and otherwise i vote when i wish for the person i am voting to be eliminated,

It's pretty clear that shiki's vote had a purpose and was not just rvs, just saying

I think you might be misunderstanding me:

Dorsey's case against Shiki was this:

VOTE: shiki who do you think is scum and y didn't u vote like everyone else

Shiki explains why she didn't meta vote and my reason for disliking Dorsey was his lack of reevaluation.

Additionally, this:

it's suspicious. ur asking others to commit but not committing urself. do u feel every vote placed to this point has been confident?

was a very weird post because Shiki wasn't asking other people to commit to anything.

[Vanderscamp]

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

How are they towny?...

i think being concerned about progressing the threadstate is a bit of an odd thought and obviously something the mafia don't actually care about. I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

This is reasonable.

[Vanderscamp]

(also i think the jacket wagon didn't go through because you unvoted and then i didn't push for jacket elimination/vote when i came to the thread

which makes me wonder why you are asking jacket why the jacket wagon didn't go through after you unvoted the wagon at e-1

like 'do you think you were not eliminated largely because of me?' seems kinda hm)

but also you're not really in the deep end of the suspect pool right now so

it's not really expected that your content would be

'see i'm town you're alive!'

Interesting point, love this

[Vanderscamp]

which also if you really think about umlaut's e-1 is probably more +partner than -partner as it rushes the process of finding new wagon and such

as i don't think (?) there was anyone not on the wagon who would be expected to hammer that wagon as town

so kinda free distancing perhaps

(but could have also been attempt to get a mafia to reveal themselves by hammering, which, hm)

I agree with this, but I'd think that if they were partners umlaut would be less likely to indirectly draw attention to that fact later.

[Vanderscamp]

bugspray leaning into the outrage as a way to avoid actually playing the game takes my "meh" compromise vote to an actually serious one I feel strongly about.

I'm leaning this way, I can see it as being NAI

[Vanderscamp]

Is emotional manipulation a part of the game? I thought it was clearly a joke.

anything that makes the game feel like not a game makes the game very very difficult for me to play

I don't understand how the original comment can make the game feel like not a game, to me it seemed like a CLEARLY sarcastic comment that is drawing attention to the fact that wishing someone death in this game (which is a thing) does not actually translate to real life feelings.
To me this generally seems like a reasonable thing to say when in game we are actually talking about wanting to kill people.

jacket, do you think town!datisi would think town!bugspray is going to "produce quality content" because threat of e-1 here?

i know this isn't technically a question for me, but

town!bugs would've started screaming how i'm scum pushing a easy misyeet there

town!bugs was never afraid of confronting me, while scum!bugs pretty much always is

also, judging by those queue posts, incoming a replacement

i'm wondering if we should just hammer the slot and save micc the trouble

eh

i think bugspray was upset for not really game related reasons regardless of alignment

and that saying 'produce quality content! or i'll e-1' at that time

without even engaging bugspray in conversation about anything about the game

would be pretty unlikely to lead to town!bugspray pausing to give opinions on the game and such

I do generally agree with this, my issue with how bugspray chose to do it seems like the scummiest option.
Maybe this is in part due to me not understanding how anyone who has enough social awareness to be able to play a game like this could take the line bugspray did, but, like, you seem to be offended by what looker said but have made every effort to play the game anyway.
The person who replaced out, I don't remember their name, just immediately replaced out which is also reasonable. But I don't like bugspray waiting a while to replace out without giving real content in the meantime and I have to imagine that bugspray's alignment definitely could be playing a part in this in some way that isn't necessarily true with the other two people I mentioned.

[Vanderscamp]

i am slightly annoyed that there has been little to no reactions on my meta case but ok

I'm on board!

[Vanderscamp]

i am slightly annoyed that there has been little to no reactions on my meta case but ok

i think your meta case is non-applicable to this situation

like bugspray was upset about looker post then was immediately misgendered by looker after saying so

so any expectation of ‘well town!bugspray would have called me scum at this moment due to my asking for content but scum!bugspray would not’

seems kinda n/a yeah due to the events

This is what I mean by the difference between bugspray and the person who replaced out immediately.

The big part of "the events" happened a full irl day before this.

If bugspray is somehow so debilitated by what's happening that they are just not going to play the game, I would have expected an immediate replace out.

[Vanderscamp]

First thing, you voted instantly i replaced, as saw me as easy target. Well fair.
Second, you not interested in me proving i am town, otherwise your approach would be other. You just interested in murdering me.

I think great achievement is that i read this game.
Well.
Last 5-6 pages or so.

I don't really remember what i read, but it was toxic. But i have poison resistance.

Also, watch me townspewing myself
*Swings green role pm around*

Now give me conftown ticket and execute anime.

Because how memetic it looks, i will say i am completely serious, Datisi maf.

This is a very bad "case" against datisi.

[Vanderscamp]

You know, seeing how you instantly dropping your suspicions and just sheeps Jacket it's hilarious.

I don't think I believe that you are as confident in datisi being scum as you're pretending you are.

[Vanderscamp]

like, no shit i voted you on entrance and before you said anything. that much can be plainly seen from the thread. so why is cape asking me a question that has an obvious answer? so that they can give off the illusion of sorting me via that question (despite it having a very obvious answer - "yes, yes i did do that"), and it's clearly setting up a "it's scummy to vote people before they get a chance to speak!!" scumread, while completely ignoring the fact that i already had a read on your slot which explains why i voted you

This is also great stuff!
It was a poor post from Cape

[Vanderscamp]

enchant was not an empty slot? in either sense of the word - the slot had a person playing in it, and the previous owner had posted enough content for me to get a read into. so.

I like to let the boiler plate sit on people that sub into a scummy slot personally. So far, not impressed, considering just revoting, but I will give it some time. I am still feeling mixed on you for *reasons

im mostly just giving it time because I don't really have more time to think about it rn bye.

You acknowledge that this is your personal opinion to take that stance though.

Why is it a big deal if someone doesn't share that stance?

[Vanderscamp]

UNVOTE: Datisi

augh the RT thing actually could make sense the more I think on it

Wow, it's super towny to post this so soon after writing a novella on why Datisi is scum.

[Vanderscamp]

I think Cake is strongly towny for what I just said.
I think Datisi/shiki/jacket have all been playing towny as well.

I think enchant's slot is suspicious because I didn't like bug for reasons I've just talked about, and I feel like enchant's case on Datisi was exceptionally weak, as umlaut did a good job of pointing out.
I also would kill Dorsey for earlier reasons.

Everyone else is null.

[Vanderscamp]

i… don’t really think we need to talk about that anymore -

could you respond to 230-231 please

bugspray leaning into the outrage as a way to avoid actually playing the game takes my "meh" compromise vote to an actually serious one I feel strongly about.

I'm leaning this way, I can see it as being NAI

It doesn't make sense to me because they replaced out all over the site. And they weren't doing anything before. It looks like they just took an opportunity.

Were they doing things in other games?

[Vanderscamp]

hm

kinda think jacket is most likely partner on red flip

due to pretty weird reads of eachother and complete lack of interaction between them in isos

but hammer kinda hm on its own

I think it's unlikely mafia says this about the person they NK

[Vanderscamp]

Notes as I decide which behavior Dorsey and her partner most likely exhibited

Spoiler: Bus?

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

I wouldn't think so. Why is this a thought that popped in your head in regards to this game?

I think Dorsey has the highest chance of being scum because I really didn't like their read that shiki was scum for not voting.
Having that read in the first place was somewhat fair, but the part I really didn't like was him maintaining the read when shiki gave a pretty strong justification for it, including stating that not voting is something she often does.
I think what shiki had to say around that period was probably the towniest anyone has been this game and I dislike that Dorsey didn't pick up on that.
My townread on shiki is stronger than my scumread on Dorsey.

I still dislike Jacket's defensiveness and his reads, but I'm less sold on this being scum indicative now and more thinking it is just his playstyle to take things too seriously. The biggest part of me gaining this read was when he said "congratulations" when someone said they thought he might be a serious player or whatever it was.

I'm also happy to sheep Umlaut's read saying that Datisi wouldn't say they didn't want to kill Umlaut but then voting there anyway for a minor town lean.

Vander...I've only seen them protect Shiki and OMGUS me

I think it's Vanderscamp. VOTE: Vanderscamp Good luck.

edit-Ha

Spoiler: Buddying?

yea. u say u suspect cape, but all your questions are for jacket.

if i HAD to make some reads right now

townies are jacket, shiki, bugspray, dorsey, in no specific order

I don't have strong opinions on Dorsey but

Have there been any games where there were no scum slots assigned? Like everyone was town and didn't know it? I want to read that one.

Sorry, that really didn't progress this thread at all.

Both of these strike me as towny with one another, moreso on the ladder quote here

Bug...Doesn't really say much. I know you said people were calling them scum, but I didn't see much reaction.
Cape...I don't see a really telling connection with anyone. (They had unvoted Jacket but Micc just didn't catch it - had to get that off my chest)
Wheels/Datisi...Please don't make another cult. LGW struck me as a background character and I don't know what made them leave.
Looker...Minimal iso with vote shifts. I'm biased towards this behavior because I do the same thing unless I'm replacing in and there's already content.
Shiki...I don't agree with everything the slot says, but I'm okay with believing for now that a slot wouldn't be so effusive if they didn't believe what they were saying.
Umlaut...Thought the E-1 was weird. Also leery of the pass given to Datisi for perceived contradiction or "madness", but I think that's just because I'm leery of Datisi.

i forgot the context that Dorsey was voting shiki there. Makes sense and I think it's a decent/valid thought

I guess thinking about it more, what catches me off gaurd is Dorsey then proceeding to not advance the threadstate until 72, like they literally posted nothing until that time which I would expect if Dorsey was concerned about advancing the threadstate, they would make more of an active effort like, right after they said 29. The thread was already

being

advanced by the time Dorsey chimed in with a game progressing post.

VOTE: dorsey

why

VOTE: dorsey

sure, we have less than two hours anyway, probably not getting anything up in time

I don't see scum!Datisi hammering down like this

How do you not see scumDatisi hammering a partner who already has been hammered?

[Vanderscamp]

hmhmhm

why do we think jacket was nightkilled?

Probably because of the hammer on Dorsey!

[Vanderscamp]

i'm townreading everyone on the wagon

this makes a lot of sense as far as like,

would need very good reason to look outside of {datisi, cape, looker} right now

yeah

I disagree with this, I think Cape is vastly townier than specifically enchant and I wouldn't even consider voting Cape before enchant.
Voting is relevant but not the be all and end all.

[Vanderscamp]

Hi, haven't read new posts yet

hm

kinda think jacket is most likely partner on red flip

due to pretty weird reads of eachother and complete lack of interaction between them in isos

but hammer kinda hm on its own

Jacket kill is a bit odd given this post, which I sort of agreed with at the time though didn't say it explicitly.

I was already at least leaning town on shiki and this makes me more confident in that, because I don't think she plants this idea in twilight and then just offs Jacket anyway. I can

maybe

envision some sort of 7d chess gambit where she does that

just

to make people like me think exactly what I am thinking, but in reality I just do not expect that sort of thing to happen much.

This is also quite a towny take.

[Vanderscamp]

I'm pretty sold on voting Looker today.

I would vote there except I believe that will put Looker at E-1 and I don't think it's necessary to vote right now on the off chance someone who isn't aware of the count accidentally hammers.



I don't see myself voting any of the Dorsey voters today, I would need a pretty good reason to do so. I still think enchant is generally scummy, but nowhere near close enough to want to kill today. I actually think the vote on me is towny, I can easily see the vote on me as being a town who just has no clue what is going on rather than a mafia agenda.


Cape I think is extremely towny for writing a 2000 word essay on why someone (Datisi?) is scum, only to quickly reevaluate about five minutes later. That is BALLER as mafia because it is just such a pointless waste of time.

Between looker and Datisi, I think it's a pretty easy decision to vote Datisi. Datisi has been townier, and I think looker's analysis post of likely partners and likely buddying was probably bad enough to lose its "analysis" title, it was just a sequence of posts without any kind of clear thought progression behind it.

[Vanderscamp]

Sorry, *pretty easy decision to vote looker, although that should be clear in context.

[Vanderscamp]

How is 210

buddying

?

At least if you are actually gonna commit to saying that is buddying, call 212 buddying too

I didn't say 210 was buddying, but I put it in that section of notes because "I guess thinking about it more" seemed off to me.

hmm,

if you joined to play with dorsey, is there a reason you didn't seem invested in determining dorsey's alignment yesterday? (other than limited time)

Because I wasn't going to vote her. I killed her as scum last game so I figured this one would be better, but I mean the writing was kind of on the wall.

What do you mean by this?

I don't think the writing was clearly on the wall at all.

[Vanderscamp]

Pretty sure it's just Looker, for lack of any other plausible options.

Maybe

Datisi but I've found his play pretty towny, particularly today: there is just no scum motivation for them as scum who didn't bus to come out with good arguments that scum was not busing. And as for Cape I don't believe he just sits there no-voting at end of day when his buddy is on the chopping block.

VOTE: Looker

I am ngl to you, I just wasn't there. So argument against me is flawed

I think not being there is still kind of town at that point, in that you would be invested enough to make time to be there if your buddy was about to get offed on day 1.

But he wouldn't know that unless he was there in the first place, right?

[Vanderscamp]

To respond to that, I agree with you that I'm not interested in voting enchant in the near future.

But all of what you're describing from enchant I would consider to be town-aligned play, but not actually towny.
It's obviously good for town that enchant helped kill mafia Dorsey, and I'm giving him cred for it, but I've seen mafia take -ev lines in the past and there is nothing particularly genuine or hard to fake about anything he's done once you look past the fact that he's voting Dorsey.

I'm not super out to kill him but if I'm in a final three with him and Cape, who I think has actively sounded very towny and didn't vote Dorsey, I would vote for Enchant pretty quickly.

[Vanderscamp]

GG!
Really well played good