Open 842: Diffusion of Power [Postgame]

[fua]

If I ever vote Enchant or Tejate consider it a scumclaim and turbolim me.

@Everyone.

this makes no sense to say either...why the hell would you vote Tejate?

like, aren't you a cop with a check?

This is pure AtE and appealing for Enchant to stick with you in my opinion.

Enchant, both GL/Fua have been defending you non stop since you repped in. You really think that's normal town behavior?

They are buddying you.

Because... Enchant literally... said that he wouldn't win against me in a 1v1?

[fua]

either of you = shirou/nq

okay but then what do you think is the solve if let's say, I flip town today?

What is the solve if either of me or GL flip town?

[fua]

fua, you seemed to see something that made enchant 100% town at some point earlier in the game. i am strongly townreading him, but i didn't see the thing you saw; do you want to talk about that today to remove any doubt?

Ydrasse replaced out because Morph called them useless. They claimed doctor on D1 without being prompted (sort of like me) and their reaction to what a townie said in public (leaving altogether) is not something I could see scum ever doing despite Shirou's attempt to widen the lim pool, especially since Ydrasse wasn't even being especially scumread. Also Enchant hasn't done anything that diverges from his town game. Source: I've seen him as scum twice.

[fua]

Enchant's behavior in general would net him being a top townread even outside of the extraneous circumstances of the replace out.

[fua]

So why is Enchant consensus town? I vaguely feel the same way but when I stop and think I'm not actually sure why, maybe I'm just going with everyone else's flow. An ISO would probably give me an answer but people seem pretty confident about it so someone must have a reason for thinking so. I'm sure that reason has been stated, but day 5 conversation has been fast and dense so far.

fua, you seemed to see something that made enchant 100% town at some point earlier in the game. i am strongly townreading him, but i didn't see the thing you saw; do you want to talk about that today to remove any doubt?

Ydrasse replaced out because Morph called them useless. They claimed doctor on D1 without being prompted (sort of like me) and their reaction to what a townie said in public (leaving altogether) is not something I could see scum ever doing despite Shirou's attempt to widen the lim pool, especially since Ydrasse wasn't even being especially scumread. Also Enchant hasn't done anything that diverges from his town game. Source: I've seen him as scum twice.

Enchant's behavior in general would net him being a top townread even outside of the extraneous circumstances of the replace out.

Wasting a cop shot on Enchant is throwing.

[fua]

Enchant isn’t scum though.

[fua]

Also I’m staying on Shirou. Ceph is 100% confirmed anyway if Shirou flips scum, so…

[fua]

Shirou’s alignment is far more valuable to figure out than NQ’s tonight and I can’t be convinced otherwise.

[fua]

Shirou flipping scum heavily indicates GL. Voting NQ just produces WIFOM. I don’t even understand how or why we’re going with what Shirou says for the third day in a row when he has yet to be correct so far.

[fua]

I really don’t mind. Check me to confirm two people if you want. I will probably be voting GL tomorrow if Shirou flips scum anyways, that should just be an extra level of reassurance in case you have any doubts. If it’s not GL then NQ is just confirmed scum.

[fua]

Now that I’m thinking about it, I’m just gonna vote GL tomorrow regardless of Shirou’s alignment. Trust him less than NQ.

[fua]

Actually, I kind of also feel like you could just target GL tonight depending on what happens. Regardless of the outcome at least one scum will be confirmed from my PoV. Neither answer is wrong.

[fua]

Okay, here’s an idea. If Shirou somehow flips town then Cephrir should 100% check me to clear up any and all doubts. Otherwise he can do whatever he fancies. This is objectively the correct play because it prevents Shirou’s WIFOM from getting yet another day forward. It’s also the objectively correct play for GL too since he SRs Shirou and wants me to be confirmed.

I cannot wrap my head around how an NQ lim is more beneficial than a Shirou lim in any way.

[fua]

(If GL is town, obviously he knows Ceph can’t be killed and will be able to get a result.)

Checking Enchant is just a waste and NQ is not a good choice from you since you’re essentially just being asked to confirm yourself.

[fua]

Actually.

@Ceph Why did you switch to Shirou so easily? Don’t you see a merit in being mech confirmed so your word is law compared to the potential WIFOM tomorrow?

[fua]

UNVOTE:

I need to think. Maybe it really is safest to just yeet NQ.

[fua]

An inno on anyone else is completely true. If we don’t wlim NQ and Ceph comes up with a guilty it could honestly be a ploy to win the game for a hypothetical team of those two. So my main paranoia here is if we elim Shirou who is somehow town and then Ceph checks and fake guilties me or GL since we’ve been at each other’s throats then that would be a big play. Although I’m not really sure how likely that is I feel like NQ being killed at least confirms Ceph’s result while Shirou townflip might open the gate for mad WIFOM in limlo.

[fua]

I actually think an NQ scumflip would help a lot more than a Shirou one.

[fua]

Bruh.

[fua]

i feel like it's remarkable that players who need to doubtcast fua in order to win if they are scum are like, all doing that

NQ did that, though...

[fua]

Actually. For me limming NQ just confirms the scumteam is Shirou/GL if he flips town. Tejate is town and Enchant is town. NQ town means Ceph is town too.

So if Ceph townreads me he should probably realize that an NQ flip just wins the game if he's town.

[fua]

The more I think about it the more I feel like eliminating NQ is just the mechanically correct play.

[fua]

Also important, are we all prepared to take the fat L if Enchant is scum, because we don't really have any contingency for that at all.

I will take full responsibility for that.

[fua]

I still think my lim here is not useful but I'm prepared to accept I only think that because I know I'm town. Hopefully confirming Ceph is as helpful as you all think it is.

fua's town.

No one ever gave a solid answer as to why Enchant is town but sure, he can be town. Tejate's right that if he's not we've lost.

Out of Tejate/Shirou/GL, I don't know. I think it's Shirou and someone. Overall I feel GL has played more townish, so I guess Tejate. But the pairings keep running circles in my head so meh. This is as far as my brain power goes.

I did give you the answer though...

[fua]

Ceph isn't getting a guilty on me, so...

[fua]

I would have to be a god tier player to ever be scum with GL and have the kind of interactions we've been having. Also, GL killing Ceph isn't alignment indicative regardless, it's just WIFOM.

[fua]

I still think my lim here is not useful but I'm prepared to accept I only think that because I know I'm town. Hopefully confirming Ceph is as helpful as you all think it is.

fua's town.

No one ever gave a solid answer as to why Enchant is town but sure, he can be town. Tejate's right that if he's not we've lost.

Out of Tejate/Shirou/GL, I don't know. I think it's Shirou and someone. Overall I feel GL has played more townish, so I guess Tejate. But the pairings keep running circles in my head so meh. This is as far as my brain power goes.

I did give you the answer though...

Yeah and I responded saying I wasn't satisfied with the answer: viewtopic.php?p=13262364#p13262364

Oh, I didn't see this. Yeah, that's not a good argument. "You TR Ydrasse but you don't have any reason to TR Enchant." doesn't really make sense. Or at least that's how your answer comes off to me unless you just want to debate semantics. I have a stronger TR on Enchant based on circumstances of the replace in as well as his play (I've played multiple town games with him) than anyone except Tejate and that's staying unless you flip town.

[fua]

Yeah, if Enchant is scum I'll just take the L because that would absolutely blow my mind and I would give HUGE props to both him and Ydrasse because. Wow.

Anyway, NQ flipping confirms we'll kill one scum by tomorrow, so...

VOTE: NQ

That's 5.

[fua]

That's 5.

[fua]

I thought 5 was hammer, but I don’t mind either way because my intent was to hammer.

[fua]

I thought my vote was the fifth one and it was hammered when Tejate asked, is what I mean.

[fua]

You may now call me foolish.

[fua]

Not gonna lie, I secretly want to die because I kind of want to see how the ghosts are doing. I miss when Amazonian was alive.

Ghosts are probably shit talking us a lot for being dumbasses. Especially now that Morph is there.

[fua]

Not gonna lie, I secretly want to die because I kind of want to see how the ghosts are doing. I miss when Amazonian was alive.

Ghosts are probably shit talking us a lot for being dumbasses. Especially now that Morph is there.

If you're town, you've no idea how afraid I'm to read the likely multiple, long insults I'm probably receiving over there for introducing paranoia about your slot in this game...

Uh oh. I am town, so...

[fua]

Okay, so Tejate Raichu is 100% confirmed townie now.

Anyway. There’s an actual chance that both GL and Shirou are somehow town here. Which scares me.

[fua]

i feel like it's remarkable that players who need to doubtcast fua in order to win if they are scum are like, all doing that

& tbh i feel like the lack of doubt against me could me attempts to pocket me & indicative that they know nq will flip town

i guess i could be reading too much into that though

These posts from Ceph yesterday as well as the suspicion thrown on Shirou makes me think that he knows for sure that I’m town and that he’s attempting to switch it over to Shirou or GL to protect NQ. Since NQ’s copping is no longer valid it could just be a teamup of these two? I should probably do an ISO but if Shirou and GL were both pushing NQ before Ceph it makes me feel like they aren’t really aligned with him. Shirou has been expecting to be the lim for days now and bussing the person who is far less likely to be suspected makes no sense from a mafia standpoint, as much as I hate to say it.

[fua]

GL voting NQ before Shirou also doesn’t make much sense if the two are partners. I guess it could be a setup to make the elims Shirou and then possibly Ceph but in that scenario he would have to know that he would never survive the final 3. So I can’t really see that happening either.

[fua]

I think Ceph is probably the mechanically best elim option for today because we either win or have a confirmed townie in the final three.

[fua]

Actually, Shirou is right. Ceph believed I was town (and has for a while) and that GL and Shirou were both doubtcasting me in order to get further. If he believes I’m town and he has the option to end the game mechanically by checking Shirou/GL (Kill the one that doesn’t flip town then kill me if that doesn’t work) then why would he select the person who he suspects the least out of the three?

I think Ceph is just scum here.

[fua]

Ceph needs GL and Shirou to both be miselimmed and not checking either of them aligns perfectly with his wincon.

[fua]

Yeah, Ceph not mechanically ending the game from his POV is just damning because there’s no reason not to even if he wanted to make sure I was town.

[fua]

I just don't understand why Ceph wouldn't check GL or Shirou when it literally ends the game no matter what the flip is if he's town.

[fua]

Well, let's see, if my math isn't off we have 2 eliminations and 3 suspects. Maybe instead of trying to scumread someone today, I might have a better idea.

Let's try to think of who we absolutely will not vote for in the pool of Ceph/GL/Shirou. If we get one good townread in this pool, we win the game. And it should theoretically be easier than trying to scumtell at this point.

I would vote for Ceph before I vote for either of GL or Shirou. If it's the final three then I GUESS I would rather vote for Shirou because I would feel a little weird about letting him win if he is scum + his game is just a little more scummy than GL's from a holistic standpoint. But I think Ceph is just scum here so we should win.

[fua]

Well, let's see, if my math isn't off we have 2 eliminations and 3 suspects. Maybe instead of trying to scumread someone today, I might have a better idea.

Let's try to think of who we absolutely will not vote for in the pool of Ceph/GL/Shirou. If we get one good townread in this pool, we win the game. And it should theoretically be easier than trying to scumtell at this point.

Your idea sounds good I think...

except I know I'm town and probably never picked as the assumed town here so basically from my PoV we either win today or likely lose

WHICH IS WHY I DIDN'T WANT A FUA CHECK IF NQ FLIPPED SCUM.

If it's any consolation I won't vote for you today.

[fua]

Honestly, thinking about it, it may have been better if nQ flipped town funnily enough. town!nQ flip + town!fua check = scumteam 100% confirmed.

Except Ceph dies at night if that happens.

[fua]

Actually, he might not? But it would be better for GL to sacrifice himself than to let that happen.

[fua]

Ehhhh…

I agree with Shirou here.

VOTE: Ceph

[fua]

If scum had pushed my mis-elim to go through, the game might already be over by now. So I think that is actually a pretty strong argument for town!GL. I usually don't say that kind of thing but... bussing in this setup is insanely risky. scum!GL should really not have been fine with pushing the wagon onto a partner.

Honestly, I think maybe the true play here is to get Shirou today just so we can avoid some wine tomorrow. Then we turbolim whoever we didn't decide looked townie tomorrow.

GL, what do you make of morph's suspicion of you given that they are posthumously conftown?

Ceph vs. GL would be wine too though…?

[fua]

GL, all I have to say is, if you're scum, you're doing a good job. No, maybe that doesn't quite encapsulate how I feel about the possibility of you being scum.

GL, if you are scum this game, you are a fucking menace. And well played in that case.

I'll read over day 1 some more and try to think about how I really feel about the both of you (GL/Ceph). It's difficult for me to see you as not town here, but I have the sneaking suspicion that the scumgame of someone who has been here for 7 years might be slightly okay. Just a little decent.

I mean, if you want to go by that logic, Ceph has been here for over double that.

[fua]

Eh. I think you’re fine, Shirou. I still value your opinion.

Anyway. If Ceph does somehow flip town I guess me or Tejate will be the decision maker tomorrow? So… that’s something.

[fua]

Is that a Chainsaw Man reference???

Based.

[fua]

Well, I myself haven't come to a decision yet, but I figure now's a good a time as any to ask. fua, if you don't survive the night and I am the decision maker at LiLo assuming we flip town!Ceph today, who would you be most likely to scream at me from dead thread to vote?

Shirou because I would feel better about losing to GL than letting scum Shirou win after everything that's happened.

[fua]

Although it's not 100% and I would rather let you choose than anything else.

[fua]

Still Ceph. I think GL has had a really good game if he is scum but NQ flipping scum and Ceph not checking GL or Shirou after makes little sense if he's town.

[fua]

Let's go. Let's go.

I knew it.

I can't believe we actually won somehow.

[fua]

@Catboi Thank you for hosting this game!

[fua]

I think my play was not that great, but it was really fun either way.