Open 850: Democrabilities (Postgame)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Greeting the game. Unforgiveable.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Ahh no,
I HATE the greeting tell. (Sorry TTTT if your reading this)
VOTE: furtiveglance

It's totally NAI for a whole lot of players (myself included)
Also waiting for Alianna to come online and greeting tell the thread, she does it every time.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Greeting the game. Unforgiveable.

VOTE: MalcolmTucker

Ahh no,
I HATE the greeting tell. (Sorry TTTT if your reading this)
VOTE: furtiveglance

It's totally NAI for a whole lot of players (myself included)
Also waiting for Alianna to come online and greeting tell the thread, she does it every time.

Oops,
Apologies for incorrect use of your in my post, it should have been you're and I care about grammar.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

VOTE: Goldfish

Chsinsawing for furtive.

Looks like we have our scumteam confirmed , I'm sorry we couldn't be a townblock this time furtive.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

so we get 2 eliminations today. That's interesting. How about anyone who leads on town gets quickhammered afterwards?

No.

We use today as a double elimination. My recommendation is to play fast and loose with votes and get two wagons going asap.

I like VCA data though.

VCA data from today will be very interesting.

Another interesting analysis point for this game will be the night kills, mafia having to submit them beforehand means that people can say all kinds of stuff about what they think tommorows nightkill will be and the mafia can't WIFOM them based on that because the kill was submitted the night before.
It also means if we get a confirmed innocent from one of the actions mafia can't immediately kill them.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I just realized I had a chance to claim scum there and I didn't take it.

Lol Alianna I love you and your scumtells

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

My first post was a joke. I also think the greeting tell is is pretty stupid. "Hello All" wouldn't even qualify as an example. It was just a bit of meaningless content I came up with for us to read alignment into later.

Yeah I realise it was a joke don't worry,
and my vote for you is just RVS cause I don't like the greeting tell it doesn't mean anything.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldfish I tried to ATE on page 1. Did it work or not?

Sorry what does ATE stand for?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Which is the end anyway because we can’t no-vote.

We can no-eliminate on the current elimination (the additional effect phase one) but not on the regular elimination.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Also if it's melo and we eliminate the intended nightkill we won't loose and it will Elo the next day.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldfish I tried to ATE on page 1. Did it work or not?

Sorry what does ATE stand for?

AtE means Appeal to Emotion. I think furtive was referring to 19.

Ah,

We then furtive it sort of worked,
If you can convince me you're not scum with titus I will consider making a class of 2090 townblock with you and Alianna.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

Ohhh, I've been wondering why mine isn't working.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

Ohhh, I've been wondering why mine isn't working.

Works now. I feel personally attacked.

I'm sorry Alianna, it's just one of my pet peeves. But you are like my favourite person on Mafiascum so I might consider changing it for you.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Which is the end anyway because we can’t no-vote.

We can no-eliminate on the current elimination (the additional effect phase one) but not on the regular elimination.

Yeah. I was just referring to the quickest way to lose. On the other hand, the quickest way to win would be to yeet both scumbags today. That would be epic.

That would indeed be truly epic it. Might even be a site record if town wins on day zero without any night play, I don't know if that's happened before.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Oh wow I forgot to attach the sig is there some kind of setting to have it permanently on?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I was just pointing out that no elimination is possible, I don't have strong feelings either way on doing 1 or 2 eliminations (although that will probably change once I get some scumreads!)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I worry though that the mafia gave us the extra kill because they know we don't have much information day one so they will likely both be mislims, which benefits the scum.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

OK so mech spec from me

We are 9 with a double elim meaning we're 7 into night. Scumshot brings use D2/P4 with 6 players meaning optimal play at this point requires a No-Lim at some point.

My understanding of the rules is the N1 kill has already been submitted, as each one is submitted a night in advance.
This is going to make stuff interesting as the scum won't want to vote to eliminate their target, making associatives fuzzy but also meaning optimally they don't want their targets yeet.

6 Players D2 with the N2 kill predetermined would be interesting for sure.

The other thing is given the playerlist the N1 kill is going to be telling.

Code: Select all

MalcolmTucker
furtiveglance
GoldfishFromTheMoon
Alianna

Cat.Jpeg

Radical Rat
Titus
Dunnstral
Flea The Magician

Because it can be split like this, players who have games together and knowledge on each others styles so kills are potentially easier to read.

Personally, I don't think we use the extra shot. We don't have enough information to make the best use of it

Just noticing your listing of who has played together, me and cat.jpeg play together on another site so we are very familiar with each others styles.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I guess you have to enable it every time you post. That’s annoying.

Ohhh, I've been wondering why mine isn't working.

UCP > Board Preferences > Posting Options > Attach my signature by default

I also suggest going into Display options > Enable bold and color BBcode in sigs; Disable automatic sig-hiding: On

Thanks so much

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

My recommendation is to play fast and loose with votes and get two wagons going asap.

What does this mean and how does it help us?

For scum, the odds of avoiding two wagons is hard. We can drive two people up and the choices made will be extremely useful in the future. That's the whole point of VCA.

We get two wagons, flip one. Look at the result and then decide if we want to flip the other one. The positions people take should be invaluable.

I believe the only confirmed innocent is from the inform action, which gives a permanent no nightkill to the recipient (I asked the mod, so I'm like 95% sure I get this.)

You could also get confirmed innocents from the jailkeep and track action if there is only 1 scum left.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think it probably goes more like this: (colour denotes grouping)

GoldfishFrom

TheMoon

Cat

.jpeg

Alianna

furtive

glance

Malcomtucker

Flea The Magician
Titus
Radical Rat
Dunnstral

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

My understanding of the rules is the N1 kill has already been submitted, as each one is submitted a night in advance.

All the more reason to double eliminate today

I'm not sure I follow, how does kill being presubmitted mean we should double eliminate

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Am I expected to be able to meta read players I played with before? Hope not

^

I should mention, I've never played with any of the people I know as scum. I don't think I could give good meta reads either because I don't have the whole picture.

I've never played with scum!furtive or scum!Alianna before, so I'm not sure how accurate I can get on those two from meta, if scum!Alianna projects the same townie charisma as scum we're all screwed.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I agree with cat.jpeg and malcomtucker, unless someone does something super sus we don't want to risk the possibility of having 3 townies dead by day 2.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

That said, the effect elimination is majority not plurality, so it won't go ahead unless there is a "serious wagon"

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It looks like RVS is over, so I'll UNVOTE: my page 1 random vote.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

As I understand it, the BP'ed player is the one the result is given about. so scum wouldn't BP themselves because then they would be revealed as scum.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

-Inform, the mafia chooses a player to gain bulletproof. The first vote of the day will tell the voted player what alignment the chosen player is at the start of the night phase.

So this is what I thought it meant, @mod could you tell us if this is correct:
Mafia selects a person to gait bulletproof. During the ability phase we vote on a player to receive the result. The voted player is then told if the bulletproof player is town or mafia.

Which means:
- We don't know who the bulletproof is while we are voting for who to receive the result
- Scum will probably try to get themselves voted as the informed player who receives the result, so they can then lie about it.
- The bulletproof and the informed (player who receives the investigation result) could end up being the same person, who would then get results on them self.
- if we get a confirmed innocent from this action, Mafia can't kill them at any point because they are bulletproof (I don't understand what is mean't by this thing of scum shooting the bulletproof twice, they are not a 1-shot bulletproof and the scum PM says "you can no longer kill the chosen player, ever" so scum shooting the bulletproof twice in a row doesn't break the protection and kill them, it would be a no-kill two nights in a row)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Also, @Cat and Goldie, what are your thoughts on each other so far?

Cat hasn't said enough for me to read her, it's pretty much only discourse on whether we should eliminate or not, as town she would definitely argue for no-elimination, but she knows I know that and so she'd do it anyway as scum. I would say most of her posts so far are NAI and could come from town or scum cat. I'm waiting for her to start posting game analysis, reads and votes so I can read her.

That said I don't like post 82 though, it feels odd, and not like something cat would normally do. It's not bad enough by itself for me to vote her but it seems strange.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

she probably thinks you are town.

Interestingly at this point in the game I don't town read alianna yet...
In the past two games with her (one which I was in and one which I read and later replaced into) I was able to townread Alianna by about page 2 or 3 purely based on tone, and she continued to project townie vibes for the rest of the games.
At this point in time she doesn't have as much the town charisma she normally does, I don't know if this is me not picking up on it, a changing playstyle, her not having as many posts yet or scum!Alianna. But at the moment Alianna is flvery firmly a null read for me.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

There has mostly just been analysis of game mechanics and a lot of it is NAI

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

There has mostly just been analysis of game mechanics and a lot of it is NAI

And yet I feel you should have more visible reads ...

Can you elaborate on this?

I feel like I should have a little more knowledge on where they stand in this game currently, be that reads, investment levels, or even stance on the current situation.

For example Titus feels detatched and lacking conviction but I know she would much prefer to shoot currently and I know she likely has a PoE where she would shoot.

I got nothing but "meh." from Goldfish and I don't like it.

So currently with the game state I think we should go for a no-elimination, because it's too risky to hit two townies, which is the most likely outcome.

With that in mind

intent to hammer: No Elimination

, for those pushing to eliminate now's your change to convince someone to hop off the wagon before I hammer it.

As for reads I don't have strong opinions on any players this early, it normally takes me a while to get reads I am confident in. As I've already said Cat.Jpeg is a

slight

scum lean for post 82 I think it was (post number might be wrong) and I'm not entirely satisfied with the response in post 159. I also said that Alianna's tone is null for me, which is unusual and could be an indication of scum.

Later today or tomorrow when I have time I'm planning to go through ISOs so I'll have some reads for you after that.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I'm torn over whether or not to hammer no-lim.

Originally I definitely intended to but Dunnstrals maths was fairly convincing, and even considering that some of it might be wrong it made me think more about it, and I think the most likely situation is we end up eliminating one town and one scum, which isn't bad.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I don't know.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

If it was actually a joke, then I apologize. I sometimes have difficulty discerning jokes from serious statements, as evidenced by well... This.

I do still think your reactions to pressure look very not good, but I will need to re-read and re-evaluate things with that in mind before making proper judgement, and I don't really have the energy for that tonight, so look forward to that tomorrow.


I do still 100% stand by using the elimination being the correct decision though, that's not affected by any of this

I see how furtives reactions might not look so good but I think this could be coming from an annoyed town.

I agree with cat on this one, I've seen furtive play like this before and at the moment I'm not sure the push on him is justified.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I'm the main one pushing her no kill.
Titus needs to give her reasoning for the furtive vote an why not me when I'm clearly being called scum in that post as the main person pushing for no kill.

Like I said. Town can disagree. Scum jump on the opportunity to silence town and deny information.

You keep talking about scum trying to deny information, but I don't think that's the case here. By giving us the kill action today, I think scum beleived they could steer the game towards two miseliminations on day 1 which is good for them. So I think scum would actually want to go ahead with the second elimination unless the wagons were on them and it looked likely to be a scum elim.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Eek sorry,
I'm back now.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Eek sorry,
I'm back now.

That was supposed to be reply to the post where the mod said they prodded me multiquote is broken ) :

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I'm typing fully coloured readspost now just give me a sec

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Actually scratch that I can't decide what order to put my town and scumreads in ranking is too hard so I'll just give my thoughts.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldfish
What do you think of Cat? There is a cloud of suspicion around them. Also, do you like my readslist?

Ok so on cat,
Before I say this I'd like to acknowledge that cat.jpeg is an enigma. I pretend to be able to read them because I've played with them a lot but the reality it most of the time I'm pretty bad at it. All I know is cat!scum is to be feared and cat!town will be the death of scum!me someday.
However that said I have a fairly good knowledge of their playstyle so I know when ppl are voting them for reasons that are probably NAI. At the moment I think cat is a town lean. I know I cast shade earlier for post 82, which was out of character, but most of cats recent posting looks townie.

As for your readslist, it was good, even if I don't agree with all the reads it looked like coming from a town mindset. As have most of your other posts. I don't really understand why a lot of ppl are scumreading furtive, most of his posts look to me like annoyed town and like a town response to a wagon. Furtive you are probably one of my strongest townreads rn.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

(Scum beware)

FEAR US SCUM mwahahaha

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think Titus is just unorthodox town. Yeah some people play weirdly as scum, but this seems too risky.

I don't know Titus's playstyle but refuge in audacity is a valid scum tactic, and intentionally playing weirdly to get townread is something that people often do.

At the moment I think Titus looks scummy, I initially had them as a townlean but their posts have increasingly not made sense, and I think some of their recent votes and accusations have looked opportunistic.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldfish where is the readslist?
And can people who aren't voting vote or explain why they refuse?

Don't hold your breath, I don't think I'm ever going to post a full coloured readslist, it's just too hard to decide what order to rank some of the more null players and I don't find readslists all that helpful. But I will offer some thoughts abd reads on particular players:

So I've already said I townread furtiveglance and cat.jpeg. I also townread Flea the magician, since the start fae have seemed like one of the towniest players in this game.
Town lean on malcom
Also town lean on dunnstral.

Titus is looking like the scummiest to me, their posts don't often match up with what they said earlier and a lot of their votes and scumreads look opportunistic.

So VOTE: Titus

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Goldfish where is the readslist?
And can people who aren't voting vote or explain why they refuse?

Don't hold your breath, I don't think I'm ever going to post a full coloured readslist, it's just too hard to decide what order to rank some of the more null players and I don't find readslists all that helpful. But I will offer some thoughts abd reads on particular players:

So I've already said I townread furtiveglance and cat.jpeg. I also townread Flea the magician, since the start fae have seemed like one of the towniest players in this game.
Town lean on malcom
Also town lean on dunnstral.

Titus is looking like the scummiest to me, their posts don't often match up with what they said earlier and a lot of their votes and scumreads look opportunistic.

So VOTE: Titus

Also that's E-2

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

That takes Titus to E-1

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

VOTE: Titus

I think this needs to happen though. Both the Alianna and Dunnstral pushes were based on things that are just objectively not true, and I'm not buying the "I'm the only competent player in the game" act, despite sharing her frustration with the no lim D1.

Really strange phrasing - 'this needs to happen'. Only vote for people you think are scum.

Cat.jpeg voting for Radical Rat makes me think they aren't paired, and I'm more sure of RR being scum.

UNVOTE: Cat.Jpeg

VOTE: Radical Rat

I don't think RR and Cat are the scumteam but you need to be careful with logic like this, ie. x voted y therefore x and y are not scum together. Scum love to bus, they do it all the time to try and get town credit.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Atm I townread Dunnstral and Alianna is null with the a possible scumlean. But if Titus is town this doesn't look good for either of them.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I prefer Titus but if someone can convince me they are town Alianna would be the wagon I'd switch too over RR.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

As I said if Titus is scum I think Alianna is town, but if Titus is town I think Alianna is probscum.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

The problem is I've seen Alianna play like this as town and get scumread for it. Some of her stuff is genuinely sus (which is why I scumlean is) but some of the things ppl are scumreading her for look nai.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Ahh furtive, I know we be friends but that is really not a great attitude.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

What are your (Flea) thoughts on the game right now?

+1
Flea is someone else I townread and I want faer take on this situation.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Before the day ends, I do want to say that the nightkill is potentially going to be rather informative. It has to be submitted pre-game, which means they couldn't use anything that happened today to decide who to kill. So, either they did it completely randomly... Or they based it on knowledge of other players and deciding who might pose a threat. If they did deliberately choose a nightkill, it would most likely have been someone at least one of the scum was familiar with.... So a nightkill within Flea/Dunn/Titus/Myself could potentially implicate the others. Likewise, a kill on Alianna or Goldfish could implicate the other.

It's hardly damning evidence, but worth keeping in mind in conjunction with everything else.

Another thing would be to look at who was defending the kill target if it's someone who was being pushed today, because scum has a strong incentive to not let the kill target get eliminated. And if BOTH of those happen to apply, on top of generally scummy behavior.... Well, D2 should go a lot smoother then

Let it be said that I was online when the daystart was posted

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

oops that first thing wasn't supposed to be replying to that, I was saving it for my next post

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Let it be said that I also was online when the day start was posted. Is that relevant though?

no it's totally not

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I just lost the stuff I wrote about RR's post 501 which I quoted ): stupid dodgy wifi.

Anyway what I was going to say was that this comment: "So a nightkill within Flea/Dunn/Titus/Myself could potentially implicate the others" looks to me to come from a scum mindset, knowing the kill will be within that group.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there. I think Goldfish is the most town for me.

I would like to inform Goldfish.

VOTE: Goldfish

Me too,

VOTE: Goldfish

the one time self voting is actually beneficial to town lol.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

A bit about the Titus elimination, it was terrible, I hated it, it's really frustrating.

Yeah I wanna apologise to you for that, feel free to say I told you so.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there.

How so?
For me it did the opposite, pushing an elimination on the intended nightkill doesn't make sense for scum unless the wagon is on their partner.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Flea voting for Titus slightly dampens my townread there.

How so?
For me it did the opposite, pushing an elimination on the intended nightkill doesn't make sense for scum unless the wagon is on their partner.

*the other wagon

also sorry for spammy posting rn.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I haven't really changed my thoughts since yesterday. I think the Alianna wagon looked pretty clean, and might be my favourite vote in today: Part 2, even more so now that Titus is definitely town. Radical Rat still giving me bad vibes along with Dunnstral (or their replacement), but obviously only 2 mafia. I've changed my position on Cat slightly, they seemed to really want a vote on Radical Rat so might be town.

Do you have any thoughts about assosiatives?

You have a lot of scum reads which makes me think this is a "if X is scum then Y isn't, but if X is town Y is definitely scum" kind of situation. so who do you think is paired or definitely isn't?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I haven't really changed my thoughts since yesterday. I think the Alianna wagon looked pretty clean, and might be my favourite vote in today: Part 2, even more so now that Titus is definitely town. Radical Rat still giving me bad vibes along with Dunnstral (or their replacement), but obviously only 2 mafia. I've changed my position on Cat slightly, they seemed to really want a vote on Radical Rat so might be town.

Do you have any thoughts about assosiatives?

You have a lot of scum reads which makes me think this is a "if X is scum then Y isn't, but if X is town Y is definitely scum" kind of situation. so who do you think is paired or definitely isn't?

I have a scumpool of 3 right now. [Alianna, Dunnstral, Radical Rat]

So I don't really need to do associatives, because we can run through all three of these.

The thing is that Dunnstral was a townread of both Alianna and RR so they don't fit in, which is why I still think Alianna/RR is most likely.

But I need to rethink things. It's a new day.

I think we all need to rethink things for today,

Of your scumpool I think Alianna and RR are possible scum, but not together, and I townlean Dunnstral

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I've thought about this inform ability a bit more. It will most likely give us a confirmed town, because mafia wouldn't want to out themselves. I think based on yesterday the player we will be informed of is probably Flea/Malcolm, for being consensus townreads.

It basically gives us an immortal innocent child, because the way I understand the person who information is given about gains bulletproof.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

true. town actually have some good abilities in this setup, I'm looking forward to Track and Watch if scum are taking requests

As the player pool gets smaller the abilities will become more useful (as with normal PR's) which is good.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I assumed Goldfish would be informed after the inform phase but before the main vote to kill phase.

This is kind of a mod question - when is the information given to the voted player in the inform phase?

Yes would like to know this too, don't necessarily think it should impact our choice, because I don't think there's a glaringly obvious night elimination for scum at the moment provided we have our town reads right, but would be handy all the same for those uncertain about who to pick on the basis of this.

I would agree, there are a few people who are fairly universally townread and it could be any of us. I wouldn't have pinned myself as the obvious choice.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Keep in mind that the informed and BP could end up being the same person, mafia might have intentionally picked the person they thought most likely to be informed to be informed, so that it makes them look kinda sussy like a mafia when they say the only thing they learned was that they are town.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Oh wow I never thought of it that way.
Let's just hope the mafia didn't either.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I also townread cat, so if she wants she can join the 2090 townblock (although we'll have to change the name)

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

The Inform ability doesn't mean much if town doesn't trust the informed

I agree with Alianna here, which is why even though the points about scum intentionally killing the person they think will get informed are valid, we should vote for someone who is fairly widely townread so there is no dispute about the results.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Slightly related thought, scum could try to get a controversial player informed to sabotage the ability's effectiveness. I like 576 even less now.

I mean, if it really comes down to it, we can just eliminate the informed player after they share the results. I don't anticipate NEEDING to do that, but it would clear up the results easily enough.

You forget the fact that if we eliminate incorrectly today tommorow will be melo... so we shouldn't do it just to clear the results because if they are town we'll loose.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Why should we vote for someone who's town with an

eh

chance of dying when we could vote for town who's less likely to die (based off yesterday scum probably would not want to kill me because im not a consensus townread and other more townread people have the same scumreads that i do so it's not like they would target me specifically if I am right, because of this i will probably also not just get a result on myself which would be unfavourable)

This is the last time I will push for this unless people have questions. If not enough people are swayed I will succumb and vote for Goldfish.
VOTE: Cat.Jpeg

Cat I think you're town and I would vote for you, but seeing how some people scumread you it's pretty much impossible for your inform-wagon to go through. You should vote for someone who is likely to suceed (hint hint ME!).

I shall be dead before I see the

ring

inform in the hands of an

elf.

yone other than Goldfish.

Hehe, loving the reference lol.

In the scenario that the mafia have BP'd someone they will try and get elimmed today (probably RR, Alianna, or Dunnstral), because the fact that the mafia might have given the BP to them even though they are being scumread has been acknowledged then if they are scum they can pretend that is what happened. Also it would be stupid to eliminate the person we informed and i dont want to rule out any of these 3 from elimination.

In the more likely scenario that mafia has chosen to BP a consensus townread because it will be the least useful to town once we find out, then they know that person wont get voted out and will survive to the last day. In that case mafia probably BP'd somebody who they believe they can convince to vote with them. Which is why if goldfish is BP i will be more sus of dunnstral and maybe RR (at the end of day one rr was the only person goldfish gave no read on or mentioned). And i think goldfish is likely to be BP because shes the most widely townread and also hasn't expressed as strong opinions or scumreads as other widely townread people.

But wait if goldfish is the BP that means shes also not the NK so voting her is fine? Im confusing myself. While i think goldfish is most likely to be BP its a 40% chance and the other 60% is split (not exactly evenly) between everyone else so i think shes most likely but still not likely. Whatever. Me being a better vote still makes sense (under the conditions you think im town). Vote Cat 2022.

I agree with this post, it makes a lot of sense and I think cat is right.
Except for the very last part as I've already said, I don't think we should vote cat, purely because not enough people will do it so we will end up not reaching a majority by the deadline and loosing the ability.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

On second thought, the lack of a real counterwagon might suggest that Goldie really is slated to die or that she's the BP.

UNVOTE:

If I'm the BP I'm not sure It matters, I would just get informed about myself, and I'd say that (assuming you'd believe me). and I think with a counter-wagon, because we are voting for someone we town read rather than someone we scum read there is a lot more of a consensus, considering there are more town than scum.

Who do the players voting for Goldfish think will die during the night?

I think Flea, unless they are scum.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

@golfish why do you townread Dunnstral?

Sorry I didn't get back to you sooner about this.

So it's a town lean not a full townread, I don't think it's impossible Dunn is scum here, certainly not as convinced about it as other town reads I have.

It's mostly because I think a lot of their early day 1 posting seemed town, and because I think some of the reasons they were being scum read didn't make sense. Could someone who is scum reading Dunnstral give me an overview of why please because I don't think I've seen a lot of reasoning behind it aside from bad vibes.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Thanks Alianna (:

We have less than 24 hours till the deadline and we need to make a decision before then or we will loose this ability, I would like to encourage people to vote for me.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Question for everyone. If you had to vote either Dunnstral or Radical Rat today, who would you vote?

Radical rat

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Hi I exist.
Sorry for inactivity,
Thoughts coming on various posts.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Ok so furtive I still think you're town but some of your recent play really doesn't make sense. Below is a breakdown of 710:

Spoiler:

I'm at E-2 out of nowhere. That means at least 1 town is voting for me, probably 2.

I feel wronged. I'm trying to solve, I'm being open, I'm giving reads.

I called Titus town and you killed them anyway, so you guys haven't helped me solve at all.

What I'm saying is that I think I'm playing well, townreading town and scumreading scum, and other town aren't playing as well.

Not a fan of the guilt tripping, mislims happen, you shouldn't blame the rest of us for thinking Titus was scum.
You've argued in a couple of your posts that you correctly townread titus and that should give you towncred, which isn't true.

Spoiler:

I'm seeing Dunnstral/Radical Rat right now.

I find it hard to see you naturally coming to this conclusion. In previous games, and I think in this one, you've argued before that you didn't have the scum team pinned down because it's never the most obvious choice, and yet this game you think the two scum are the two players who are close to consensus scumreads.

Spoiler:

I think town will lose if I'm eliminated today, it's as simple as that for me.

If you are town I think this is true, although you could probably say that for any town player. A miselimination puts us in a very bad situation tommorow. Unless you are the intended nightkill in which case we might have a chance.

Spoiler:

Practically we have a problem with today's vote. Flea/Alianna/RR/Dunnstral will all end up voting me, whereas me/Malcolm/Cat/Goldfish will vote the counter - either Dunnstral or RR.

You shouldn't assume which way people will vote, if you get scummy enought I will vote for you, the townblock only stands so long as we both townread each other, and people currently on your wagon have other scumreads and might switch.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

The most important event is the elimination. Usually town want to vote out mafia and mafia want to vote out town. So yes, the most useful analysis I can give is that the Titus wagon is scummier than non-Titus voters. You're trying to muddy the waters by using the intricacies of this particular setup to make people think we should scumread people who defended town and townread people who voted town, it's in direct contradiction with the law of mafia. You are under arrest.

This setup includes a pre-determined nightkill, scum wouldn't want to eliminate the nightkill because then they only get 1 dead townie vs two. Which means that in this setup it's not as simple as mafia want to vote town, town want to vote mafia, because mafia won't want to vote particular townies.

I don't have understand why you refuse to see this, it's not a minor intricacy of the setup it's actually really a important and totally relevant to our situation on day 1.

And I don't like how you are scumreading RR for arguing this when other players (myself included) have said it before.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I do believe it is possible one scum chose to hide on the Titus wagon. However, my problem is that being on the wagon is not inherently scummy on its own, while furtive has been repeatedly reducing it to that.

Basically, scumreading someone who was on the Titus wagon is fine, but scumreading someone FOR being on the Titus wagon is questionable at best

This I completely agree with.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

On second thought, the fact that your thoughts have been so all-over-the-place today is probably town-indicative.

UNVOTE:

I'll see myself out now.

Why do I do this to myself?

A bit late to the party but these posts scream town at me, scum Alianna would have no reason to do this, and you can see that she KNOWS it looks scummy. This is also really typical Alianna town meta, she's done this before.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

Note this isn't to say I scumread either cat or furtive, only to say that if one of them IS scum, that is the most likely partnership.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I have things to say that must wait until tomorrow.

Will you give us any hints?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Intent to hammer Radical Rat.

Not that it means anything with 4 hours till deadline.
This is going through no matter what I do.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Wait, that wasn’t a hammer. There’s 8 people so it takes 5.

Wat. I must have miscounted.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Three things.

1. We’re screwed.
2. Goldie, results?
3. furtive, you have some

explaining

to do.

1. Yes
2. I'm delighted to inform you all that Malcomtucker is aligned with the town. He's officially the only person I trust now.
3. Furtive I wanna here this. Have you betrayed our townblock?


This track ability is kinda weird because we are meant to use it to find scum but considering it's el/melo we don't want to track a player we think is scum we want to eliminate them immediately.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It feels like this wagon is growing way too quickly but I also think we should track cat.

If we live through today (by eliminating a scum) the track ability will either give us a scum or a confirmed innocent. I think cat would be one of the more useful people to have a confirmed innocent on.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I would predict that Goldie is the target.

Me too. I'm definitely going to die tonight.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Just generally like the wagon building up and going through right at the beginning of the day before we've had much discussion and people haven't contributed yet. But I guess that's just what happens when its later in the game with less players alive so it doesn't take as many votes to get something through.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I'm going to go ahead and VOTE: cat.jpeg

I'm doing this is because I townread them and I want the confirmed innocent rather than because think they are sus.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Just generally like the wagon building up and going through right at the beginning of the day before we've had much discussion and people haven't contributed yet. But I guess that's just what happens when its later in the game with less players alive so it doesn't take as many votes to get something through.

Ok, makes sense. I don’t think we should rush to hammer this, we should ideally get a decent idea of who we’re eliminating before we finalize our track target.

+1

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I didl

U wanted to see my response to your theory about me and malcom didn't you. I honestly dk what too say except that I can see why you thought of it because scum me would do that but that's not what's happening now. I kinda wonder tho if you are scum trying to throw us off the scent with a wacky theory.

Legitimately right now I don't have any idea who the scum is. As Cat said I've townread or leaned every player who is currently alive so my reads are definitely wrong this game.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I think there is exactly 1 scum in RR/furtive. It looks to me like a town/scum interaction, and if one of them flips town it's going to look really bad for the other.

Although throwing a crazy conspiracy out there (this is probably definitely wrong) what if it's both of them? Together, and this is a crazy megabus that's been going since day 1.

Light Scumread:
Cat

Strong Scumread:
furtive

This is an interesting pairing, if furtive is scum cat is probably the partner. furtive's associations with a lot of the player list make it highly unlikely they are paired, but this isn's so with cat.

At the moment I still fairly strongly town read cat, but if furtive turns out to be scum that might change.

This game has a lot of associatives.

Intent to hammer Radical Rat.

Not that it means anything with 4 hours till deadline.
This is going through no matter what I do.

Cat's scumcase was good.
And you guys are right intent is kinda pointless in this setup so I'll end this.

VOTE: radical rat

Is Cat planning to hammer? Seems like nobody has any objections to this going through.

I wanted Goldfish to say something before I didl

U wanted to see my response to your theory about me and malcom didn't you. I honestly dk what too say except that I can see why you thought of it because scum me would do that but that's not what's happening now. I kinda wonder tho if you are scum trying to throw us off the scent with a wacky theory.

Legitimately right now I don't have any idea who the scum is. As Cat said I've townread or leaned every player who is currently alive so my reads are definitely wrong this game.

I don't like this

What specifically do you find suspicious about this? You seem to be picking and choosing individual posts, and then putting them all next to each other to make it look like a progression when in reality there were many other things I, and other people said which you are ignoring here, which give these posts context that means they make sense.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

From your point of view, I'm betting it'll feel pretty disappointing to have been right all game (on Dunnstral) and not stuck to your guns when it mattered.

This is shameless manipulation/ATE

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I do want to hear from Furtive re the above though - they think Dunn is scum, so in this case who do they think is the partner? I don't believe they are particularly confident on that at the moment (and it's one of the things that's making me doubt my read too).

I don't think it matters who the partner is right now.

If we do flip Dunnstral (red or we lose), we then either get a clear or a guilty on Cat

. If Cat is clear tomorrow I'd vote Alianna. Simple as that, game done.

True...it's just getting the flip right that inherently worries me. The idea that you/Cat have managed to get a solid grip on the game, forcing through your elim to then try and pocket me by confirming me as town feels quite compelling. But then I do worry I'm potentially overthinking it as well, which can become a risk of its own.

I feel like me/Cat has now become this holy grail for some people now. It doesn't work, even for the simple reason that Dunnstral isn't town. If you look at why we're paired, it's because I led on Radical Rat and Cat then joined me. I townread (past tense) Cat for this specific reason, they were voting with me. Before that I thought they were suspicious. I think Cat/Dunnstral is the most likely partnership right now.

If you approach this game through associative logic, then perhaps me/Cat is an easy solve. But you need to look at who is actually scummy individually as well - Dunnstral is the most scummy person in a vacuum. I would argue I'm not scummy at all individually.

The reasons you've stated aren't why people thing its you/cat.

It's because you're scummy in a vaccum, and your associations with most of the living players prevent you from being scum together, therefore if you are scum it must be with cat,

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

VOTE: furtiveglance

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Sorry guys

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Cat was right

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Hehe

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It was me and malcom

Although maybe I should have left you to guess...

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Good game everyone

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It was definitely not good play on my part that won us the melo, I was very lurky.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I want to see though who the people in the dead Pt thought it was

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

GoldfishFromtheMoon

: Plays really openly. I'd be surprised if people push Gold this game. I only see town here. There's nothing informed, guarded or calculated about their posting and it shines through. I'm confident in this townread. Off limits, not to be miscondemned.

MalcolmTucker

: Seems pretty reasonable. I can't find fault with anything here - reads are well-reasoned and looking back makes some of the things I said sound a bit stupid. Some scum play like this, but Malcolm's play here is pretty similar to 2088 which I reread recently. Will probably become a universal TR I should think. Cool.

That was my favourite post of the game.
When they unlock the scum Pt you'll be able to see me laughing at it......


Will you forgive me for betraying the townblock furtive?

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Cat is going to have a massive "I told you so" moment

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

It was definitely not good play on my part that won us the melo, I was very lurky.

You did a good job imitating your townplay though (at least what I’ve seen of your townplay).

Thanks (:
I think I did really well at that day 1 but then slightly dropped the bar day 2 and beyond.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Yes...

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

she probably thinks you are town.

Interestingly at this point in the game I don't town read alianna yet...
In the past two games with her (one which I was in and one which I read and later replaced into) I was able to townread Alianna by about page 2 or 3 purely based on tone, and she continued to project townie vibes for the rest of the games.
At this point in time she doesn't have as much the town charisma she normally does, I don't know if this is me not picking up on it, a changing playstyle, her not having as many posts yet or scum!Alianna. But at the moment Alianna is flvery firmly a null read for me.

I’m interested to know if this was genuine. Would you still have thought this if you were town or were you just planting seeds of doubt? Because I agree that I was definitely a little different in the beginning of D1.

This wasn't genuine. I wouldn't have thought this as town, I was planting seeds of doubt.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I TOLD YOU SO
I'm not angry, just disappointed
GG Goldfish and Malcolm, who did you actually bulletproof.

We bulletproofed furtive. I wanted to do malcom so we would have more options for the kill but we decided against it in case I didn't get to be the informed.

And you were/are the kill for tonight.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

I hope the mod gets here soon, I want to read the scum PT.

We tried not to gloat too much...

Uhh yeah....
I did a bit of gloating. Pls don't hate me for it. (;

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

Cat did have us worried a bit on the final day, they were headed in the right direction with their suspicions.

Oh yeah I was terrified of cat, she was 100% right .... it's lucky the rest of the town didn't beleive her.

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

No worries, I think I can claim 3rd Mafia as rightfully mine

We are very willing to adopt you into the fold

[GoldfishFromTheMoon]

@Goldfish

Why DIDN'T you just outright claim a guilty on furtive? Obviously, clearing Malcolm worked out for you, but seems like it probably would have gone faster and easier if you'd done that

I think it would have been less likely to be beleived, because that would mean that furtive, as mafia, chose himself to be the bp and have his alignment revealed, at a time when quaite a few people were suspicious of him already.