Mafia Invictus Redux [Game Over]

[Lady Lambdadelta]

vote:Bell

[Bell]

I’m ignoring most of the the questions (not that there are many) being thrown my way because they’re kind of meh.

Hello friend. I would like for you to not to do this.

My follow up question from you was because your comment on my interaction with marci did not feel like a Real Thought, and I would like for you to engage with it more. Thanks!

Sure, I’m not surprised by your approach you said that. I said that it didn’t make sense for scum to push first and ask questions after. Since it shows a desire to continue to solve a slot after expressing confidence which, while not congruent with it, isn’t really what scum do.

@LLD: *psst* you missed.

[Val89]

OK, I think I understand what we are dealing with now. Andante was exactly whom was being called to my mind when I mentioned being told in other ganes I was supposed to find that sort of internal contradiction townie, but find myself unable to do so.

Ill try my hardest to take Feys advice and leave that read alone for a bit.

[marcistar]

I'll respond to stuff later cuz I'll be busy but I'll say this

Kouvu or whoever was saying shit abt my small posts,
106, 117 were my last posts before i slept. i posted them on laptop, i generally have an easier time posting on laptop.

Spoiler:

I'm 19 (so im reliant on my parents alot), recently my parents both lost their jobs. So now my dads sorta (?) found this thing but he needs to do safety training for it first of all. He needs a laptop with a working webcam to attend the safety classes so naturally I can't really deny him for a silly lil mafia game. Its selfish, considering theres a test for him today too.

I'm not really good at phoneposting, which is what ive been doing today.
I wanted to post though since im bored and i have the day off from my work...
Its just all so confusing, idk how to really do multiquotes in efficent ways and just like... its all overwhelming. each of my posts were responding to different posts but like... if those were all put into one post insteqd i just think it would be so confusing for me.

based on how i usually play, didnt think it would be an issue since I doubt ill reach 100 posts for d1, but if its such an issue i can just not ppst again until 4 or 5pm idk when hes done with it.

[Rhyme and Reason]

So is there nothing in their readslist that you agree with at all then?

Rereading it, that's pretty much the case.
It's mostly just "this person did this thing"
and then a read that doesn't quite relate
Like some is based on meta, which I get
But I don't think it's better than by chance.

i have a strong desire to kill the two people who wrote reads lists on page 6 and below and chose to include me on them with 0 posts.

Because you think they're scum, or just for spite?
It's hard for me to see how that's AI
And like Datisi said, it can make sense.

Yall talk way too much lol and they're giant posts... I told myself I was tryharding, and only giving 125 solid posts, but like, I can't stand reading all of them, ok um

If you don't want to read, don't join a large.

Kovu has a tendency to be self-contradictory and erratic a lot in play. It can be a lot to try to follow sometimes. Give them a few days to see what they do/vote/etc and judge from there.

Or better yet, just wait till they are venged

(Or copped, I guess, I think they're hard to read.)

-Reason

[gorilla]

And maybe also Bell for messing up
the count of posts that we're allowed each day.

If Bell is scum, I doubt with VPB,
Or Lavar, since they clearly knew the count
of posts that we're allowed to make per day.

For what it's worth, it was initially announced as 150 posts per game day, Bell was probably basing it off of that. I think reading alignment based information off of that is very tenuous, I don't think scum sit down in their topic and start discussing the post cap first thing.

I feel the opposite, for what it's worth.
There's almost nothing you can base them on
So they're just making things up, pretty much.
It's gonna make me want to doubt their reads
For probably a large chunk of the game.

Meh. It's the spirit that counts.


Not really thrilled with Datisi returning with a vote on marcistar.

[gorilla]

Also, Marci going against a scumread on me? That’s new. I was expecting her to scumread me by now

Do you think it means anything in terms of her alignment this game?

[VP Baltar]

I would like to point out that Marci voted Datisi in post 19 saying "I THINK HE COULD BE SCUM"

But the reason being presented once he became a real wagon was because he was ignoring votes - which distinctly cannot be the reason why she voted him originally in post 19, because Datisi had zero posts between Baltar casting the first vote on Datisi and Marci voting Datisi

UNVOTE:
VOTE: marci

Doing my daily catch up currently, but I think fire's exchange with marci probing their thought process and how it doesn't actually track (posts 84 and 86), as well as Marci's tepid response, combined with luke's point here are pretty solid reasons to think Marci could be scum who got a little too overconfident early.

[VP Baltar]

I want to say this is Marci's towngame off the top of my head. Not freezing up, replying/responding to a few different things. Seems out of the scope for her from what I recall.

Can you point to a specific response from Marci you think she couldn't do as scum and explain why you think that?

[VP Baltar]

The latter; and in fact he did mess up.
But luckily we needn't be exact--
The point is just that there's an effort made.

lol I really have not clue what your post restriction actually is then other than posting short half sentences then because you are definitely nowhere near iambic pentameter at this point.

At least this is more readable!

[VP Baltar]

fire's reactions to the luke/marci stuff are pretty irrational...which means he's more likely to be town I suppose.

[VP Baltar]

Not sure Luke comes out swinging on Marc but it’s early.

uh, why not?

[VP Baltar]

For me my vote was more of a reaction test on Datisi. Which obviously has a chance to be skewed, but I'm ok with it for what it produced.

What reaction were you looking for to help you decide either town or scum?

[VP Baltar]

I wonder, particularly given the use in the previous post, if I understand 'vibes' to mean something different to others. I voted datisi because something felt off about his posting in a way I was (and still am) unable to fully articulate - datisi suggests in 60 it is an awkwardness, and perhaps that is one way to describe it - if I was to make a better attempt, I think the early interactions with VP felt a little contrived, like it was trying to get out in front of something. I'm not usually a player to rely on the feels or gut, or whatever, and the fact that ping was going off at this early stage in the game was plenty sufficient for me to place a vote there.

Having not been given any articulated reasons for the suspicion falling on him, I find no fault in datisi essentially ignoring them. Takotsubo above suggests this is slightly town indicative, but putting myself in datisi's shoes, I can't see how you would play differently as either alignment, for the reasons given in 60 and therefore can't consider it alignment indicative either way. I'm left with whatever it was that pinged me in the first place, which hasn't gone away albeit datisi has had little opportunity since. I am leaving my vote there, but I do have to scratch my head at the the takotsubo unvote. I could understand moving the vote, but a naked unvote seems a little odd to me, particularly if, as claimed, the vote was intended as a reaction test.

Moving to the wagon more widely, the fact that one did build up to +50% of the votes required to hammer before encountering resistance is interesting. It appears to me that, given that nobody has come out with a good articulated reason for the wagon, either some portion of the player-list also got the heeby-jeebies from datisi early on, or mafia have taken a early run at a town!datisi and artificially inflated the feeling of unease around the slot. I also acknowledge that it could well be elements of both, but I think if so, the majority is likely to fall into the former category, given that it should be fairly obvious a quick-wagon was never going to succeed on a town!datisi without at least some semi-reasonable basis and scum could expect to be called out once it stalled. The conclusions I draw from that are: a) there may well be something in the early feelings I had around datisi, and my vote can stay there while I look into the assertion that datisi is wagoned early all the time because of an awkwardness that isn't alignment indicative (I am unlikely to have time to do so today, so help in that regard would also be appreciated) and b) I think I can reasonably be suspicious of those slots who resisted the datisi wagon and threw shade on the members of it, on the basis that there was a wagon. I would be less concerned if they had cause to townread datisi themselves, but I see no evidence for it.

I was about to spell out who it is I mean by that, but it probably obvious whom falls into that category and I am wondering if, given the invictus mechanic, if this is a game I ought to be telegraphing exactly how my reads stand at all times. In regular games, I think that is largely how one should play, although I know there are disagreements on that score, but I wonder if the argument for playing ones cards closer to ones chest is stronger in this game than others. One the one hand, if you are right and are openly suspecting scum that might dissuade them from killing you at night and leaves you alive to continue to push those scum, but if you are wrong, and scum can reasonably infer you might have another town as the target of your invictus, there is the risk of handing scum a free two-for-one. Given the number of D1 TvT shitfights I have found myself in over the course of my mafia career, I am inclined not to choreograph my exact moves at least for today and until I feel much more comfortable I am on the right track.

Apologises to those who dislike wall posts, but I not sure of the alternative here.

I came in prepared to hate this because

wall post

, but I actually kind of like Val's nuanced analysis here. I'm not sure I agree it necessarily means Datisi is more likely scum than not, but there is a certain logic to it I can at least appreciate.

Would scum try to speed wagon town!tisi when it is unlikely to go anywhere serious, and has the potential of drawing ire/blowback from Datisi or other players? Perhaps not.

Main takeaway though is probably town points for Val here.

[VP Baltar]

VOTE: marcistar

bell - scummy because he doesn't feel like he actually wants to be here
dunn - can be slight town for 50, feels nuanced *enough*
dwlee99 - lack of presence and the quickness of 118 is town.
enchant - dead null.
fey - i think slightly scummy because the convo with me felt more like posting for posting's sake but i am not married to this read
fireisredsir - town.
gammagooey - like both of the votes they've made. don't think they're trying to give off an impression that their posts are more useful than they are. slight town.
gorilla - townie for 92.
kovu - slightly townie for 81 because i don't expect scum!them to enter like that but we'll see how this progresses.
lady lambdadelta - null.
lavarmanos - slightly scummy maybe? my eyes are glazing over reading these posts. idk jury's still out.
lukewarm - mostly doesn't make my stomach turn so can be town for now. 101 is slightly sus but otherwise all ok.
marcistar - lol scum
meuh - 63 felt too tryhardy, the points on me in 79 feel off, and the "haha i am glad to be town!! and solving!!" is forced
rhyme and reason - 120 feels kinda townie idk why call it vibes. i wanna see mena freak out that i'm townreading his slot for nonsense ok.
sircakez - slightly SLIGHTLY townie for 13 because i like the tone but it's like. 0,01% more townie than random.
takotsubo syndrome - i feel like voting someone then plain unvoting because hurr durr reaction test is not very likely to come from scum? like scum would have some sorta bigger trajectory there. can be town for now.
val89 - my eyes glazed over 131 so into the scumbin you go
vp baltar - deadass no clue what to think here, ask me later

town (from towniest to least townie): fire, dwlee99, luke, gamma, gorilla, takotsubo, rnr, kovu, dunn, sircakez
void (no order): enchant, ladyld, vpb
scum (from scummiest to least scummy): marci, bell, meuh, val89, fey, lavar

cheers

VOTE: marcistar

bell - scummy because he doesn't feel like he actually wants to be here
dunn - can be slight town for 50, feels nuanced *enough*
dwlee99 - lack of presence and the quickness of 118 is town.
enchant - dead null.
fey - i think slightly scummy because the convo with me felt more like posting for posting's sake but i am not married to this read
fireisredsir - town.
gammagooey - like both of the votes they've made. don't think they're trying to give off an impression that their posts are more useful than they are. slight town.
gorilla - townie for 92.
kovu - slightly townie for 81 because i don't expect scum!them to enter like that but we'll see how this progresses.
lady lambdadelta - null.
lavarmanos - slightly scummy maybe? my eyes are glazing over reading these posts. idk jury's still out.
lukewarm - mostly doesn't make my stomach turn so can be town for now. 101 is slightly sus but otherwise all ok.
marcistar - lol scum
meuh - 63 felt too tryhardy, the points on me in 79 feel off, and the "haha i am glad to be town!! and solving!!" is forced
rhyme and reason - 120 feels kinda townie idk why call it vibes. i wanna see mena freak out that i'm townreading his slot for nonsense ok.
sircakez - slightly SLIGHTLY townie for 13 because i like the tone but it's like. 0,01% more townie than random.
takotsubo syndrome - i feel like voting someone then plain unvoting because hurr durr reaction test is not very likely to come from scum? like scum would have some sorta bigger trajectory there. can be town for now.
val89 - my eyes glazed over 131 so into the scumbin you go
vp baltar - deadass no clue what to think here, ask me later

town (from towniest to least townie): fire, dwlee99, luke, gamma, gorilla, takotsubo, rnr, kovu, dunn, sircakez
void (no order): enchant, ladyld, vpb
scum (from scummiest to least scummy): marci, bell, meuh, val89, fey, lavar

cheers

oh shit, fire gonna bust yo ass for wasting this post though.



Honestly though...why are you giving a reads list right now? Why is anyone giving big ass reads lists this early? Am I that bad at this game?

[Datisi]

historically speaking, my best / most quality readslists are the ones i shit out when the game is at <10 pages and where i spend <30 seconds thinking about each slot

why are you wasting so many of your precious posts posting one-liners

(also yes, my internet is utter shit and i double post constantly, rip my post cap this game)

[fireisredsir]

ok don't have as much time as i wanted to cause i gotta go soon!! but some quick points

takotsubo syndrome – ok this one is funny, I initially Town leaned Tako, like “oh, game has a really slow pace, but tako still made an entrance!! That’s good!!” but then that was it, and they jumped on the datisi votes with just “did you roll scum again” like, that’s it? What specific posts made you feel that way? If you wanted the RVS votes to be taken seriously, why not make up a reason at the very least?? So cause of that you lost your town lean - null

For me my vote was more of a reaction test on Datisi. Which obviously has a chance to be skewed, but I'm ok with it for what it produced.

In other news I really like 81. So currently I have a soft townread on that slot as well.

i kinda don't like this at all. always pings me a lot when people respond to someone who pointed out a suspicion on them with this tone. scum do it a lot, i kinda fell for it when morning tweet did it in ktane, i had suspected her early on and when she came back and responded to it she was all like "oooh I really like this point you made!". it just feels kinda manipulative and trying to get on the good side of someone who is suspecting you

So like, if anyone was truly concerned, WHY would you waste so many going "OMG postcap!!" that just feels really odd to me. Like, yeah I'm concerned myself, but like, at the end of the day if I hit it I hit it, and I'd rather not put all my thoughts into 1 unreadable block, but like, obviously I'm still maximizing posts but I'm not wasting posts to yell at people about it?? and shut down conversation..

idk! its something i was thinking about a lot and so i thought that other town would prob also be thinking about it. maybe they wouldn't, but in early game its as good as anything for something to look at. most of those posts also were about vp which like... the postcap thing wasn't even my main point there? it was just kinda something that made me notice in the first place that the things he was posting about were weird.

i think i did kinda overestimate how limiting the postcap would be tho esp since this game is not moving as fast as other larges and people are wallposting more. so. i guess its ok!! be free!! post everything!

~

still sus of marci, a lot of that early stuff about datisi is just... i have a hard time seeing it coming from a town mindset. but also like... no offense marci, but she seems clearly new. sometimes i have a hard time understanding the thought process of newer players. and like, i agree with the points for why she's scummy, but idk, some of the people jumping on her feel a bit opportunistic? and it sketches me out a bit. probably overthinking here but whatever

on the other hand i like the wagon on lavar and agree that p much everything they have posted so far is scummy. dueling lavar/marci wagons let's goo!!!

VOTE: lavar

[fireisredsir]

The latter; and in fact he did mess up.
But luckily we needn't be exact--
The point is just that there's an effort made.

lol I really have not clue what your post restriction actually is then other than posting short half sentences then because you are definitely nowhere near iambic pentameter at this point.

At least this is more readable!

im p sure that one is perfectly on meter actually mr english major

theyre just getting better at structuring the lines less awkwardly so it flows well

fire's reactions to the luke/marci stuff are pretty irrational...which means he's more likely to be town I suppose.

ok i was just gonna respond to this with a joke but then i thought about it and like

since when have you ever townread me for being irrational

[fireisredsir]

ah oops i meant to put this in one of those posts

semi v/la until monday night

will still be able to pop in occasionally but will not be at my usual activity level

[VP Baltar]

hes not really trying to make me see the light of things

you mean like when i asked you to explain how did you come around to something being definitely a scum thing for me based on nothing but your speculations about my personality? or like when i asked whether you are actually genuinely serious on scumreading me for voting a person fire also voted? when i tried to engage with you on why you were dismissing other people sarcastically when your points weren't clear? and you didn't bother to respond to any of that and instead went straight to attacking my reads? none of that happened?

Alot of the posts you've been making i feel like are very nonwelcoming for responses I feel like you dont *actually* care about what I say, i feel like you're just being agressive to me even though im trying my best to read you... I dont really think you asking me questions is trying to make me see the light of things... why arent you trying to point out proof of why i have to be wrong instead?
You cant deny "is this a joke" is a nonwelcoming thing... how was i meant to respond to that? It obviously made me feel like my line of thinking is not good in your eyes, so to me it just looks like u were trying to agressivly make me shut up..

i know im not really good at explaining things but it doesnt really look like youve wanted to help me at all..

When did I ever dismiss anyone sacrastically, and when did you try to talk to me about it? I don't remember it.

ugh, this post and the previous lengthy response to Datisi feel weirdly pure and naive to me. Thonking.


pedit- @fire, I wasn't stating the exact quote I cited was off meter, just saying in general it ain't right (and I'd argue the emphasis in those sentence constructions is whack!)

As to reading you as being irrational...uh, this is like every town game you have with me where you scum read me for nonsense, and then turn it around on similar nonsense. Like, the reason you're suspicious of Luke doesn't make much sense at all to me, but you do you son. It's exactly the type of paranoid without basis reasoning I have seen you direct at me before when you're town, so that's why I think it's probably +town points. I don't know if that mode of thought would really be easily fakeable as town because it is so off the wall.

[VP Baltar]

Yall talk way too much lol and they're giant posts... I told myself I was tryharding, and only giving 125 solid posts, but like, I can't stand reading all of them, ok um

So first off marci.
Even making the read I was debating if I wanted to townlean that slot, then was like "ehh we'll go for it" cause like, it's not like the reads aren't gonna change, anyways, I hated that post marci had like right before I entered, and it was followed by bad ones, like, I don't get why 106 was made to be giant, just to have a bunch of tiny ones after, like, a bunch of posts just responding to 1 post after another, and it's not even like a reply.. it's just you commenting on 119, 120, 121, 124, like, all seperate posts, so then why is 106 a wall? if for any reason other than this is some maf plan... idk, I'm not loving it
then you went back to going at datisi, cause that's like everyone's "go to" thing this game? you said this

> i know im not really good at explaining things but it doesnt really look like youve wanted to help me at all..
umm why would datisi want to help you??

your posts have just gone downhill, and you seem super focused on interacting in the past, like, everything is just responding to someone else, and some of those responses aren't great, and I see like no original thoughts, I really do not tr marci this game, like at all.
~~
Why am I bringing this up? well, I said I was town leaning marci, and I KNOW someone else here was calling marci town, I saw that catching up. like, no... nothing from marci's play seems too towny, and honestly, I'm thinking the largest red flag is like, the 1 wall of responding to posts... followed by a bunch of individual posts, like, that's maf realizing it'll take a while to hit 125 that way, and literally just going "I need more posts cause more posts = townier"

This post feels weirdly self-conscious and concerned as marci starts to take some heat and can't really explain her reads.

[SirCakez]

everyone who has posted so far is town, with the exception of dwlee (whose first post is nullishly scummy) and gamma (whose post i did not bother to read). please discuss.

lets go im in the town block

actually no Datisi is being kinda scummy

VOTE: datisi

[SirCakez]

VOTE: takotsubo syndrome
Definitely want more there

what is the "more" you are looking for? more content? it was like a few hours into the game when you posted that

Hi all. 125 posts per day doesn't seem like too much of a restriction.
I actually like Fey for bandwagoning to Datisi, but don't really have any opinion on the other votes or anyone else rlly

VOTE: Meuh
I feel like you're trying to do too much out of the gate? I mean, if you're town, I don't want to discourage you from solving. But it doesn't feel natural to me at least.

I like this post. Feels organic and kinda mirrors my thoughts as I've been reading.

81 - how can anyone have such a massive readslist on page 4? wtf? it feels pretty forced

94 - pretty good vibes from this post. I like Luke's thought process esp regards to Kovu.

[SirCakez]

more later left off around mid page 5 but i gtg

[Dwlee99]

@dwlee. Uh. Why do I have to place a vote?

Take a stance!

I find this wagon analysis confusing. When you say it is bad, do you mean scummy?

And if you think the wagon is scummy, why are you most suspicious of the first and second vote on the wagon, over votes 3-5?

I think the wagon is on town!dats + there is scum on it

First two people I just found independently scummy and the "last vote more scummy than 3-5" is kinda baseless beyond I feel like it

You're not voting Marcy though

Don't think scum was voting Marcy there though

*raises finger to begin emphasizing a point*
*breath catches*

Okay.

Hmm. I’m processing. Did Dwlee ever explain why I needed to vote?
I’m ignoring most of the the questions (not that there are many) being thrown my way because they’re kind of meh.

Fire feels good to me now.

Don't like this from Bell. I had two posts, seems like fake pondering to ask this first question

Gonna
UNVOTE: Baltar
VOTE: Marci
Cause it seems it's gaining more steam and I dislike her dislike of Datisi's reads

Also ftr I'm moving across the country for the summer in 11 hours so I'll be more engaged after I'm settled in at my new location