Open 857 | Frienemies | Postgame

[Datisi]

second?

VOTE: vp baltar

[Datisi]

v/la until monday afternoon

started working my summer job yesterday, got my last exam of the semester on monday, and also *waves vaguely at the world* i am tired

will def be around but don't expect too much

[Datisi]

Who wants to talk about this setup a bit?

what is there to talk about?

[Datisi]

I immediately thought of it when I saw this game and wanted to throw it out there as a way of tackling the game, or alternatively having only one mason out themselves and be the go-between for themselves and the others, etc.

are you suggesting a mason outs?

[Datisi]

andante town
penguin town
fire town
i am very good at this game

[Datisi]

aristeia town

[Datisi]

am I not getting a townread too

sorry i needed you to at least post something first <3

[Datisi]

andante town
penguin town
fire town
i am very good at this game

hmmm I too can call everyone town... but someone must be mafia

i believe that i have called three (3) people town

which, if you check the number of players, is not everyone :>

[Datisi]

I shouldn't need to post for you to townread me *pouts*

i didn't want people to think we're masons, i don't want to get you shot :<

[Datisi]

ahhh so scum are just gonna be the last 3 to post?

yes

hot take wrt vulture: it seems like they had this weird ass strategy planned out from before the game started, as they've referenced an older run, therefore this sorta strategy suggestion is Probably NAI

[Datisi]

I'm pretty sure I've never lost a game when I've gotten nightkilled like um

ever

i do not care about winning the game

i care about playing it with you <3

[Datisi]

A MAFIA SHOULD OUT

[Datisi]

why?

[Datisi]

My vote is serious now. Datisi straight avoiding me

y'all hear sumn?

[Datisi]

It's very reactionary.

I think you're (p-edit: datisi) town but I think I think that in every game.

what does reactionary mean when it's supposed to be negative? (my grammar is excellent, you know what i'm asking)

also hey, if you think i'm town every game, you're bound to get it correct more often than not!!

[Datisi]

implosion town?
vp baltar scum?

[Datisi]

I dunno I think VP baltar is probably town but I'm hopelessly jealous

jealous of what? me "ignoring" him?

[Datisi]

Real talk, of all the people to talk so far, I think Ari is the one I SR the most...

nvm it's just fire I SR the most.. there's like a 0% chance fire is town here, I'll let others show up and talk, but yeah

can you explain why fire is scum to you? i've noticed you throw out these "x is 100% y" reads around a lot, and you explain them approximately never, and that makes it impossible for me to read you >_>

"why is fire scum" question goes to everyone voting him, though i'd like andante to answer it first

[Datisi]

I'm not voting him, so thus the question doesn't apply to me, I'll pass the question to VP!

yes it absolutely does apply to you

[Datisi]

dw i will be back shortly

[Datisi]

dw i will be back shortly

ngl i briefly had a fun theory that you rolled scum together and you were like "baltar baltar get in the thread we have to do theatre" and he was like on a stressful work phone call or something but through gritted teeth made the effort to slam out some posts to meet the theatre quota, and that's why they felt stiff and un-relaxed

i think if we were scum together, we'd be shitting up the thread much much more than now lmao

the imagery is funny, but how does it fit with the fact i've been barely responding to him?

[Datisi]

okay, i thought i was gonna stay up studying for longer than this, but my brain is already shutting off at the very early time of half past midnight, so;

i think fire is towny - other than vague Good Vibes i got early that at this point i do not even remember what they were actually about, i really like 145. and the other posts about baltar. mainly what i like is that they mirrored my thoughts of "wow this tone is weird" to "yeah nvm not anymore". also i think 154 is vaguely +town because i feel like fire!scum would be slightly more compelled to give out a more convoluted explanation for a statement that did not quite make sense, rather than just go "lol i guess not" so yeah there is that

andante feels distinctly like andante, but also i'm thinking town!andante. i'll ne honest i kinda was not expecting an Actual Explanation of her fire read when i asked, and 147 is okay. like it's nothing mindblowing, it's page 6 or whatever after all, but seeing parts of the actual thought process behind the read make me think tbis is more likely to be town!andante. also i'm not sure why scum!andante would be giving attention towards the fact that there may be an early hammer so like can be town for now (also like, i note the irony of me not responding to this post immediately and you saying in it how you're often ignored; sorry it's late i need more time for reading mroe than 2 sentences!!)

the closest thing to a scumread i have rn is baltar, bc while his tone did go Back To Normal, i do not like the fact the felt so. like. how he did in the first posts of the game. i did not respond to his first post because i couldn't think of anything funny to respond to it. then i wanted to see how annoyed is he gonna get if i keep ignoring him. and it's like. it feels like he's pushing me because he knows he has to (bc we joked about it even before this game filled) but it's just. there's nothing there, it's like he's aware he's pushing me based on void.

yes i know early game etc but like. it felt a bit too forced even with that in mind. also i was hoping to catch him in real time later tonight but i will be passing out soon so i'm dishing this out now and re-evaling the situation in the morning.

also, implo feels different than how i'd expect him to enter the game. this isn't really AI in either direction since i'm working from memory of old games, AND i don't have too much experience with implo, but yeah. i wanted to note this.

also also aristeia is town <3 (this is partly a joke but also not really)

[Datisi]

you're weaker than datisi, yes. Jury is still out on fire.

i am literally the best scum player on this website, how fucking dare you

then i wanted to see how annoyed is he gonna get if i keep ignoring him.

Don't believe this in the slightest.

Also don't buy datisi handing out shit townreads for weak reasons in RVS.

lol? lmao?

i'm sorry, this is just bs. you're basically saying "i don't think datisi would try to annoy me" and "i don't think datisi would be doing the thing he consistently does in rvs" which like, on the former i'm pretty sure you know better, and on the later i am sure you know better

2/10 reaction test

[Datisi]

Also what's with the Aris-Datisi "flirting", any history there?

yes

you could say we do that a lot :>

[Datisi]

no comment on how implosion was referencing half of a day in a game, back in October 2021... like, I remember nothing about that game, and he's like "yeah!! scum there!!" uhh my slot was basically doomed when I repped in, like how is that close to relevant here?

i read it, i just don't think it's very AI because some people are just... like that. i am one of them. remembers most games they play, consistently draws comparisons from the game they are playing. i didn't really bother reading his case too closely because i don't know the game he's talking about and i'm kinda short on time currently so not like i can make a good judgement there, but like. i don't think him doing that is scummy.

datisi is feeling really towny. and I almost wonder if he's being too towny right now, like ok, I'm being like andante, and I like never reply to anyone.. but you have no comments on my actual explanation? so like, why did you want that explanation in the first place? hmmmm #AndanteIsOnToSomething

i love going from obvtown to obvscum in the span of a paragraph

i asked for the explanation because i wanted to see your thought process. i read the explanation, i concluded the thought process makes sense and that it's +town for you. that's that. i'm not terribly interested in actually discussing that read because (1) i don't agree with it, (2) it's a read in the very early game and it's gonna be outdated extremely soon.

[Datisi]

I mentioned earlier and still feel that fire's posting just gives me a strong sense of agreeableness that I think can be scum indicative, like there's lots of agreeable description but not the kinds of things that town will do because they're less hyperaware of how they're being perceived than scum are.

i don't think this is exactly scum-indicative for fire, so it's not really a point i considered it my read

How do people generally read S_S? I know he's supposed to be stereotypically easy to read but I don't really remember what people do

he's supposed to be what

this is p weak, thats an easy thing for ari to pick on as maf

I don't think Ari would necessarily say it in thread if scum. Ari could swoon Andante easily. No real reason to call attention to it, and she certainly isn't going to do it to get town points from me.

ehh, i actually agree with this

if andante is town, which i currently think she is, then it's likely at least some scum is gonna be attempting to pocket her early because she has a chronic case of omgus and scum don't like attention. even if scum!ari isn't the person to be doing it, someone on her team likely would be, and calling attention to it is unnecessary.

[Datisi]

1) vibe; reads; thread interaction

how much of this read is influenced by meta, and how?

[Datisi]

why do you think scum!him avoid you again?

Cause I posed an awkward opener (I'm not masons with datisi), and engaging with that conversation is potentially uncomfortable for scum, who I suspect would not want to openly talk about masons for fear of being called rolefishers.

ah yes, towntisi, the creature widely known for loving to engage in awkward conversations, and potentially tip off scum on their masonry status.

[Datisi]

okay, i don't think my reads have dramatically changed in the last few pages

main thing that annoys me is that baltar is pushing me for things i'm pretty sure he knows is false. which like, wouldn't be the first time i get pushed for nonsense. but my issue there is that there seems to be a lack of... an overarching thought process behind the push. it's just throwing a mudfling after mudfling.

i'd be interesting in hearing why @implo is voting there, though, since i'm p sure he's not aware of this sorta meta.

a few other things i'm keeping an eye out on, but i wanna let them develop naturally first.

aight, gotta run. will be checking in periodically today, depending on how busy the workday will be. try to not have too much fun without me.

[Datisi]

s_s!! how townie am i right now?

[Datisi]

main thing that annoys me is that baltar is pushing me for things i'm pretty sure he knows is false.

Does that make him necessarily scum if it's true? Why would he do that as town?

i wouldn't put it completely past town!him doing that in the name of some sorta weird reaction test.

[Datisi]

Asking that's probably +town, but only slightly, because if you're scum you'd know I'd say that.

really? i'd expect you to call it +scum for asking you about your read of me when i know you can't read me for shit. why +town?

[Datisi]

andante, any response to 297?

[Datisi]

not really, i was just wondering if you had any thoughts on my response to the thing you thought made me scum.

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now, but voting that slot before they return is boring, especially compared to the alternative.

[Datisi]

What bugs me is you're arguing kind of two things here. 1) That engaging with me on that topic could have been awkward as town, and therefore you avoided it. And 2) you intentionally ignored me because you were reaction testing if that was would annoy me.

Is that an accurate representation of what you're saying?

yes. i didn't respond at first because i couldn't think of anything funny to say to your initial post. then once i saw you saying how i'm ignoring you, i decided to *keep* ignoring you to see what happens.

[Datisi]

I don't think there is any lack of thought process. I've explained my reasoning pretty thoroughly actually. What do you think is mudslinging exactly?

it feels like it. going from "datisi scum because ignoring me" to "datisi scum because doing things i don't like that i know townwisi does". it's mudflinging because it's a very weak attack and it the thought process behind it feels forced into you having to attack me

[Datisi]

I don't feel like you try to annoy me in RVS. What example are you thinking of?

not always, no. but i feel like joking around / annoying people i like is something that's personality based more than anything (first thought that comes to mind is joking around in the neighborhood pt) so you framing that as "towntisi does not do that" is ???

i am thinking of at least one game where i explicitly said i make up reads early on as town, i think there's been more recent examples too, and like, we have played enough that you should know that bluffing on my read strength is just something i do?

[Datisi]

viewtopic.php?p=12364832#p12364832

this is the instance i was thinking of specifically

i know that you're aware of me having very early reads as town more recently too so like, this whole push feels staged lol

[Datisi]

i agree hut is being explicitly not townie right now,

Is there some hut meta I should know here? What's not town there other than just general not playing the game yet.

Same Q to andante.

it's not about not playing

it's about not doing jack shit to drive the game forward, like what have they posted that's anywhere near game advancing

obviously town does this too sometimes so i'm not gonna be jumping over it yet, but that slot is explicitly not townie

[Datisi]

i decided to *keep* ignoring you to see what happens.

Do you think I would like act irrationally about this or something?

Re: your town cases - it's not so much about me having an issue with you making town reads. It's more that your reasoning seems extremely flimsy (blah blah, early game etc).

i don't think anything. i don't do reaction tests with the idea of what a scum or a town response would be. i just do things i feel like could give me ai material and then see what happens after them.

yes, again, that is scum-indicative for me why?

[Datisi]

viewtopic.php?p=12364832#p12364832

this is the instance i was thinking of specifically

i know that you're aware of me having very early reads as town more recently too so like, this whole push feels staged lol

Also, looking at this example, I don't think I express any annoyance at what you're doing there. I suppose I could see it as a clear example of you doing something to provoke a reaction, but did it actually do much there?

that's not an example of me trying to annoy you

that's an example of me using weak reads in early game in order to drive the game forward and get better reads

[Datisi]

the thought process behind it feels forced into you having to attack me

I don't understand why you think I would be forced into attacking you as scum. I don't see what I gain.

i mean... we've been joking on discord about getting each other yeeted in this game. pretty sure you don't think i would let you go easy if you decided to not poke me early?

[Datisi]

what is your current actual read of me, baltar?

[Datisi]

what is your current actual read of me, baltar?

Maybe town because this is reaching a point of arguing for arguing sake and there is a certain attachment to the stubbornness im unsure youd do as scum here. I still think you're saying some things that are slightly silly, but maybe you were really just bullshitting a bunch of town reads.

I sort of agree with Gamma this is getting to be a boring conversation.

not bullshitting, just... finding microscopic reads then running with them.

fine. why is andante scum and why am i wrong to townread her?

[Datisi]

just checked back, i realized i thought implo's read on andante had much more meta in it that it actually did

kinda sorta thinking implo might be town??? we'll see

[Datisi]

ari, why is baltar scum to you?

[Datisi]

yeah i figured, though i assumed there's at least some Actual Read in the vote

when did you start feeling he's being "sensible"? i only got that vibe from his most recent posts towards me

@fire, what game was that?

[Datisi]

ah, that weird setup

not going to even pretend to read that

[Datisi]

I think town!baltar is more nonsensical and just makes up random shit.

i mean... that's exactly how those posts read to me

[Datisi]

I think town!baltar is more nonsensical and just makes up random shit.

i mean... that's exactly how those posts read to me

Ok but they

could

make sense to him.

Like scum!baltar makes up shit that he thinks a town person would believe is rational. [a]

but town!baltar just writes down whatever he's

actually

thinking.

and I find [a] to usually be more reasonable than

and his posting feels closer to [a] than

for me.

oh, i see

idk, i think those posts don't fit into either category because i find it difficult to see scum!baltar thinking they make sense to someone else OR town!baltar actually thinking them

maybe i have too much meta poisoning my mind and it's different for The Average Mafia Player, but also those posts were kind of aimed at me so /shrug

[Datisi]

i mean, that one post is even worse when you take into account that like 3(?) days ago, he was like "i'm gonna fucken yeet you when the game starts" in a chat

but also like, i'm tempted to move past this because i feel like the conversation is not going to give anything else useful to me, and it's also not going to help me convince anyone else of a read on baltar

though feel free to keep at it if you're getting any value out of it, obviously

[Datisi]

it's ok, i told him the same thing

[Datisi]

sure!

[Datisi]

tell me you're town again Dats <3

i'm finally town again and i really hope you are too so that we can win this game together <3

[Datisi]

Large Normal I think I had to replace out fairly early.

my first thought reading this was "what? ari was scum in large normal and didn't have to read baltar"

then i realized >_>

[Datisi]

meeeeeeeeeeh

i don't agree w baltar's read of andante and also i am not reading her by tone at all

but also like i can kinda sorta see the idea so maybe

i'll decide tomorrow how i feel about him

how about i VOTE: vulture

i'm off to bed, pls don't shit this up to like 50+ pages by tomorrow please

[Datisi]

oh god did you two roll scum together >_>

god i wish

[Datisi]

oh god did you two roll scum together >_>

god i wish

you'd rather roll scum with him than with me

nooooooooo

i never thought he was my traitor <3

[Datisi]

its ok tho, no need to sort datisi yet. we just have to wait until he has enough posts and then we can run a sentiment analyzer on them

I JUST REALIZED I WAS PLANNING TO OPEN THIS GAME WITH "I BEDDED A SPANISH WOMAN LAST NIGHT" AND I FORGOT NOOO

[Datisi]

i unironically had a thought briefly that you could be intentionally trying to have a more positive tone this game

i wish i was half as good of a scum player that you make me out to be

[Datisi]

i don't agree w baltar's read of andante and also i am not reading her by tone at all

what do you think of baltar reading me by "meta" which isn't even his meta? He's never even seen my scum game.. yet seems to be relying on my scum meta?

when did this happen? i reread his thoughts on you and i don't get how you arrived to this at all

[Datisi]

not saying it would be hard, necessarily

it would be somewhat uncomfortable because it's not the way of scumplay i'm used to and have experience with

but most importantly, it's such random miniscule shit to be thinking about while playing scum, i wish i had the brainpower to play scum like that

[Datisi]

i'd be super sad if i had to be lying to you again, though :<

[Datisi]

@Datisi he just said he's going off something "someone said" about my scum game...

literally all he said here is that people shouldn't be townreading you off tone... did you even read that post?

[Datisi]

implo's 476 is kind of more in line with what i had in mind about his "usual posting style". which is probably... saying nothing about his alignment, still >_>

how about i VOTE: vulture

was not expecting this.

why not? i didn't wanna keep voting you when i started getting a feeling you might be town

can we talk about the fact that in 488, vp baltar's avatar is the only one that is ever so slightly stretched out to the sides? like, why? every other avatar has normal proportions.

[Datisi]

I'm having a hard time getting into this game (they said, as if they ever really got into them these days) because there's a knot of meta/familiarity that's like wriggling around in the center of it. I think it's unfair to say there's scum in there somewhere (Ari/VP/Datisi) but it's difficult for me to see past it right now. One of those "Feels Like It" things.

Does anyone have any questions for me/want my takes on something.. I'm in a post-y mood.

why do you think there'd be scum within the three of us?

also: your three strongest reads in either direction?

[Datisi]

I find Andante scummy just for the fact that he keeps changing his votes. If I counted correctly, you've already voted 8 times! But then again he seems playful so cannot really read into anything there.

As for Vulture, suggesting to out PR roles this early seems scummy too. But it's a strategy nonetheless. Not sure if that benefits Town/Scum more.

"andante is scummy for changing votes but maybe not"

"vulture is scummy for suggesting the strategy but maybe not"

>_>

VOTE: hutmeil

(also andante is a she)

[Datisi]

i'm gonna go pretend i'm studying for a bit

throughout the irl today, i'll try to read through baltar's thoughts on andante and see what i think. i've been kind of ignoring that case because "andante misreading and misrepping people" just seems like... andante to me, but i should probably do my due diligence.

[Datisi]

majority of the reason for me even posting that was how the game felt “dead” and guess what? it created like 10 instant posts, got people talking!! mission accomplished!!

...did the posts that were created after you posted that """readslist""" in any way productive to the game? what did you learn from them? what *is* the meaning of the tiers?

[Datisi]

have you considered asking him about his reads

[Datisi]

comparing s_s to n_m is kinda lol

anyway - what towngames of andante were you thinking about when you said this wasn't it, and why did you find my vulture vote odd?

@vpb

[Datisi]

The tier list isn't a freaking act. it was my genuine reads mixed with some stuff to hopefully make people laugh, I was trying to see some reactions, the tiers from top to bottom: People I'm concerned about, People I think are scummy, Null, and People I TR

how did i go from maybe scummy, to being one of the two people you named as town (along with s_s), to then again you being concerned about me?

[Datisi]

I think as recently as Ktane you can look and see Andante arguing things (even if you think they are not good points) in much less bad faith, and at least being in tune with the game state.

---

As far as your vulture vote, there are lots of people who are in that same space as vulture, so it felt a little name out of a hat to me, rather than something I could see your thought process working toward in game.

thanks, i'll skim over her iso in that game once i get the time.

it kind of was. i think i saw someone say that vulture fell off, and it was a meh, good enough kinda vote

[Datisi]

Like you're very towny yes. but it almost seems too towny to me.

???

i am tempted to townread you + fire for this, because the take of "datisi is so townie, it's actually scummy" is so fucking bonkers, i feel like scum doesn't dare say it.

granted, this is more +town for fire, because he said it first, and his justification made slightly more sense, but. bruh.

[Datisi]

i mean, if you said "you didn't do anything ai yet" or "i need more time to read you", that's fine and valid, whatever

but saying "yes, you're very townie, but *radio static* that makes you scummy!" is ?????????

how does that fit in with the comment of "unless I'm supposed to believe you do nothing as scum", because that implies i'm accusing you of townreading me for simply showing up in the thread; i'm asking about why you're calling me "very townie", your words

@andante

[Datisi]

I mean, unless I'm supposed to believe you do nothing as scum

, like the one game I think I'm remembering, yeah.. but it's not like I wanna lim you here, just I'm taking time to call you town, not sure what part of my thought process doesn't make sense??

like the bolded implies i said you're supposed to be townreading me for Just Posting (which would be a horrible metric for reading me) when that is very much not what i was doing and i don't get where that is coming from?

[Datisi]

why are you trying to reason with Andante Dats?

because i don't know how to read people otherwise and her read of me makes absolutely zero sense to me

[Datisi]

you've seen her play KTANE + that mini normal as town and HDP.

i'm not capable of forming meta information from games where i'm informed of people's alignments

i am planning on rechecking some of her other games but i don't have the time right now for that

[Datisi]

I think she's pretty polarized and she feels p townie rn

how is she polarized and what makes her townie here?

[Datisi]

I mean in HDP and PYP she was p different no?

the only difference i can think of off the top of my head is that it seemed like she was more present in pyp than in hdp

which is not something i'm willing to make bets on when the game is this young

[Datisi]

I think she's pretty polarized and she feels p townie rn

how is she polarized and what makes her townie here?

she's like eager to be here.

in HDP she was basically in hiding

hnng

i vaguely remember townreading her early in pyp for thought complexity or whatever the fuck it was and then fucking up later in the game

if i didn't do that in hdp, there may be Something there

yeah, will look at that later

[Datisi]

because I'm literally asking you what you want to talk about?

Well, okay, let's talk about 394 then. I feel like I have a decent sense, as scum, of what things I shouldn't do because they'll attract primarily negative attention. And that sense is absent as town-- it almost never enters the equation. Probably because I have some amount of faith in the scumhunting skill of the people I'm playing with, that I assume that if I keep saying genuine things as town people will more often than not eventually read me town for it.

I can only speak for myself, but I would imagine that at least some other people are like this? It's hard to imagine not having that sense as scum, I guess I can imagine also having it as town but I'm sure many people don't.

So I think that it's a reasonable defense, or at least, the claim deserves to be looked at specifically rather than just dismissed in the abstract.

what is the reason that *this* is something you chose to talk about, (i'm assuming) of all things?

[Datisi]

it seems like everyone (other than baltar) has ignored my vote on hutmeil, and everyone period has ignored their return to the game? anyone else find this really odd?

[Datisi]

Know who got awfully silent??

it's almost like
i said i was gonna be v/la
studied until 2am, slept 3 hours last night, took a test, got a motherfucking A on it, passed out, went to work, and came back home

gee i can't believe i was so awfully silent

[Datisi]

yes, the point of that post is to let you know i did well on the test, thank you for asking

[Datisi]

what is the reason that *this* is something you chose to talk about, (i'm assuming) of all things?

I tried to talk to Ari about it before, and she ignored me, and then I complained that she ignored me, and she said she ignored me on purpose because she didn't want to talk about it, and then she asked me what I wanted to talk about.

fair
do you have opinions on what those posts mean with regard to vp baltar's alignment, or are you just trying to play devil's advocate?

[Datisi]

it seems like everyone (other than baltar) has ignored my vote on hutmeil, and everyone period has ignored their return to the game? anyone else find this really odd?

I saw it, I think hut's kinda towny, so I didn't jump to that wagon

why are they townie?

did you need me for anything when you mentioned me?

[Datisi]

Datisi, what are your thoughts on VP's scumcase on me?

give me... 15 minutes to get myself a snack, brb

[Datisi]

it seems like everyone (other than baltar) has ignored my vote on hutmeil, and everyone period has ignored their return to the game? anyone else find this really odd?

Their return to the game just proved I was correct, so my silence was smug satisfaction.

correct about what? that they're new? that doesn't make them town

@andante, answer the other question in 661 please

[Datisi]

correct about what? that they're new? that doesn't make them town

Didn't say it makes then town, but it means the push you and andante were on was kind snoozefest, yes?

i don't recall you being cagey about pressuring people.

[Datisi]

okay, i read the case

i want to say "A for effort" because i don't think scum!baltar posts a case like that there, unless he's scum with very specific few people AND he's trying to galaxy brain guess the gamestate that's going to be happening in the rest of d1 (which i don't *think* scum!him does usually?)

the content of that case is not really convincing tho, sorry ): i can go in further if anyone thinks that's necessary or something, but like, i don't feel like doing it if i don't have to lol

*however*, andante's read on hut is. uh. i am extremely skeptical, to say the least, that she went from thinking they're one of her top suspects, to townreading them based on... them counting the amount of times she has voted this game. like, read her original thoughts on them in 310, then read their 508. like.

still, i don't wanna vote andante at least before doing my due diligence on what ari has told me, because i know she is actually decent at reading andante, but to say it's not tempting would be a lie

[Datisi]

i was about to type out a vote on fire, and then i remembered my one (1) reason to townlean fire

give me your hottest take on the game, please

[Datisi]

you wanna vote me cause of my hut read? I mean, I'm giving this the best effort I can here, I'm literally being tunneled by VP, and no one else is doing too much to actually read.. so, yeah.. I don't expect any accuracy from me

i think your hut read is bs, maybe tmi

it's not about you being "accurate" because fuck if i know what alignment hut is, it's about the thought process you presented (or, lack thereof) making me wanna yeet you into the stratosphere

but it wouldn't be the first time it happened for town!you so you know life is pain

[Datisi]

oh, another thought i had: i don't think s_s and vpb share a scum pt this game, like, ever

if that were the case, i think baltar would've at least mentioned how dangerous aristeia can be if she's really set on murdering someone. so the fact that not only would s_s dive out to support baltar, but then also double down on it later on when given the opportunity to talk about *anything*, is not something he does about his own partner.

the thoughts in a vacuum are +town, but i think they're p much clearing if scum!vpb because i just don't see scum!s_s do that

[Datisi]

alignment related im p sure gamma is scum, which is maybe a boring take but nobody else seems to be looking in that direction so that makes it hot

skimmed that iso

VOTE: gamma emerald

i can support that idea

[Datisi]

Are you saying someone with <50 posts rn has “no posts”???

do you have any reads

[Datisi]

I agree VPB would know not to do things that look bad - but in this case I believe if he doesn't attack Datisi right away it looks even more susp to Datisi.

This whole line of logic is pretty dumb, if I'm being real with you. I don't see how such a thought would lead to actual in game pressure on scum!me, so why should I even take it into account?

? do you think i wouldn't have been screaming about it if you entered the game ignoring or townreading me?

[Datisi]

you ever have a thought "i'm gonna go to bed early and wake up at 8am and have time to do everything!!" and then you pass out and the next time you look at the clock, it's half past noon?

i do not agree with the notion that gamma is town for the andante vote and things that preceded it. it feels trying to latch onto something to push when that something is most likely not even ai. like, what's the difference between andante (accidentally or not) misrepping people up until this point, and her over exaggerating the amount of people that are not contributing or quoting/misrepping gamma's post. gamma's tone there just feels nai to me. he has enough experience to be able to fake that i think.

also, gamma implied i don't have a good scumgame, so she can die

My reaction to this post from Datisi comes in two stages: stage one, "this post looks really town", and stage two, "shit, didn't Datisi convince me he was town in a scum game once by making exactly this kind of post". So I need to remember which game that was and maybe look at it.

i don't think that post is like, impossible for scumtisi to put out, but i do not remember if i've done a post like that in jk9++ or not. can you elaborate what your thoughts are after checking that game? top of 801 is confusing to me.

Datisi

why?

i had a thought of making a gif readslist but putting in random gifs and watching people trying to interpret them, don't think i will do that though

On another note, datisi, what's your read on ari right now?

obvious town <3

Spoiler:

slightly townie. i'm not thrilled about her push on you because (1) i independently think you're town, (2) her reasons for making that push don't really resonate with me the same way some other reasons for her pushes have when she was town (e.g. prism in lake melancholy)

however, i also don't think scum!aristeia would have a reason to be trying to stop scumreads on people like andante and gamma. so like, unless she's scum with some of them AND thought i / other people were about to tunnel them and it's gonna end in a disaster for her team, i don't think there's incentive for scum!her to do that

if you want me to fine comb through her iso and try to make a more detailed response, i can do that in ~9-12 business hours

I don't have your meta abilities, so I'd go with just gut feel. Suggesting to out PRs early plus saying that

they

don't have energy to play the game seems like an excuse for scum to lay low.

what's the difference to you between vulture making that excuse, and me making excuses that i have exams, or george and mala straight up not being here?

[Datisi]

thanks! and as per my profile, i am 22

can you make a readslist? doesn't have to be overly long or detailed, i just wanna see the cliffnotes on where you stand on people and why

[Datisi]

vulture, why are you not voting and do you have any Strong Townreads?

[Datisi]

I just hope this is the time Dats!town correctly townreads me becuz if this is another scum!Dats townreads town!ari I will be sads ;_;

i could never make you sad :<

do you think this is town!dats?

[Datisi]

Was hoping for a reaction or two to my gif list

i don't understand the meaning of the gif for me

[Datisi]

Datisi, you still think vulture is scum?

didn't strongly think they were scum in the first place, but

meh. not sure. i'm not like, overly impressed with their content, but i don't think i wanna vote them. it's that they have a few posts that feel like they are not trying to look townie. one example is the post where i asked them if they had townreads, and i feel like a classic scum response would be to say "yes, i townread xyz" and not just go "meh, nobody feels really townie" because that is the sorta response i feel like is more likely to be scumread

[Datisi]

looking back, i also liked their posts about gamma and hutmeil, but it's difficult for me to say if i like them because they're townie or if i like them because i agree with them

[Datisi]

datisi whats your read on hut now? and can you give me like a lot of words when you explain it pls i really just would like a lot of words from you on hut specifically :>

the short version is still scummy but i don't wanna be wasting my time voting there when the vote seemingly does not pressure them or make them post more

i am assuming you're asking more words because you are suspecting we are scumbuddies, and for that you will have to wait a few hours until i get home. i can bullshit out a detailed analysis of every single one of their posts if it's necessary, try me

[Datisi]

the only person I even remember tunneling me in pyp was koba, so that's where I was like, if vulture is koba... they literally can't be town here hahhaa I'm just gonna shut up

implosion is still mafia though

VOTE: implosion

tldr on this?

[Datisi]

idk why that first quote is there >_>

[Datisi]

he's just there. like, not actively doing anything, literally just existing. and like I've been calling him maf all game, and he just shrugs it off.

how is this different from a bunch of other slots that do this and why is the latter scummy?

[Datisi]

meh, figured. hoped it would've been a more exciting answer, but sure

pedit: oooh
ari, how is this different than town!mala not playing the game?

[Datisi]

uh dont you remember?

if the answer involves the recent coalition game, then no, i was not exactly paying attention to her slot >_>

[Datisi]

uh dont you remember?

if the answer involves the recent coalition game, then no, i was not exactly paying attention to her slot >_>

viewtopic.php?t=89426&f=83&st=0&sk=t&sd ... er_sort=Go

#741 is how she reacted to being pushed for lurking then

oh

oh no

VOTE: malakittens

[Datisi]

okay, now that i read the hutmeil post in full... it seems misrep-y? like, vulture didn't try to make a meta argument, they tried to get hutmeil to actually think about their own scumread and the validity of it. and to continuous response of "you cannot make me do any meta!!" feels like... sorta a scummy misunderstanding of the original request. like not even trying to understand the argument.

also, hut, i would like to hear reasons why you think those people are townie. and do you have any further thoughts than "these people are scumhunting"?

[Datisi]

893 is a very townie post and i will be kind of sad if fireisredsir is red

why?

i think it's kinda obvious - but i'm not sure how i feel about you. I didn't want to keep using question mark gifs...gotta change it up.

i understood what the gif meant, i was hoping to hear an elaboration on that >_>

@implo, can you answer the part of my 804 addressed to you?

[Datisi]

thanks, implo. i asked because i wasn't sure how 801 followed your previous post.

Spoiler: self-meta that is probably not useful to anyone

at some point of playing mafia, i realized that as town, i have a million thoughts a game. and a lot of those thoughts, i spew into the game because why would i not. and my scumgame was basically "set goal, push for the goal". it became... sort of a stark contrast, if you knew what you had to look for; the town games were filled with all these tiny crumbs of random content that popped into my head, while my scum games had a clear lack of those. so i started throwing in those "haha i thought about this" or "i almost did this" lines as an effort to simulate my town game further.

the tl;dr being that yeah, don't townread me for that >_>

i was slightly worried about you using this sorta meta on me when i couldn't remember you using it in the towngame we had since then. so i went to check. and oops nevermind.

i am sorta thinking this sequence is townie, though. i feel like... scum!implosion, who wants to impress me and/or others with his Super Cool Meta Solving is likely to make 928 immediately following 736. instead, going 736 > 801 feels more likely to come from town who's doing things for their own sake, rather than doing them for appearances. like, if i hadn't asked about it, it probably wouldn't been forgotten, and i don't think scum!implo, who went far enough to write 801, is likely to drop the possibility of writing 928.

i am like, slightly speculating about implo's scumgame, but like. unless i get corrected, i'm running with it

[Datisi]

i understood what the gif meant, i was hoping to hear an elaboration on that >_>

uh....no. we've played together before, I'm not sure why you expecting that.

i know you don't have a lot of reads on d1. but saying "i'm not sure how to feel about you" generally means that you do have some thoughts that made you come to that, and i wanted to hear those some thoughts

unless your shtick is "i refuse to talk about my reads on d1", which, rude.

[Datisi]

what do you mean "might" and "again" :<

[Datisi]

gooood morning friends, guess who slept through their alarm and was almost late for work

mala's reads are like. meh. i'm not overly impressed. mostly wanna hear more about the dats/ari read because it's like. unexplained. though i will take a skim through a scum and town mala iso when i get the chance

baltar, did you like any of the stuff she posted, or is the unvote purely a "she's playing the game" thing?

[Datisi]

Which part did I misrep? I do understand his request for me to comment on his posts instead of his early d1 suggestion which I will do later. I'm just commenting now so I won't get buried in another 10 pages of posts.

You asked for "can you make a readslist? doesn't have to be overly long or detailed, i just wanna see the cliffnotes on where you stand on people and why" in 806 and that's what I gave you . Do you have a specific slot you want info on?

they

asked you to think about how likely is it that the argument they made makes them scum vs makes them town, on a more profound level than simply "this strategy benefits scum therefore the person who suggested it is scum"

your response was "i don't do meta", which is... not what they asked. at all.

cliffnotes means you don't have to write an essay for each slot, but i wanna know the rough of why you're reading slots the way you're reading them. "these people are scumhunting" tells me approximately nothing what you think about them (not to mention that "scumhunting" is trivial to fake as scum), "these people are townie" tells me even less.

[Datisi]

people who have more experience with the penguin: is the activity level ai for him on d1? ime, he usually gets townread on d1, and the one time i was using "yeah, this sounds like penguin" to townread him, he turned out to be scum, so i probably shouldn't do that

[Datisi]

hi gamma

what's the hottest take on the game you have right now

[Datisi]

okay i got distracted by customers and then i got home and got distracted by art and anyway this game has my attention now. got my lemon coke. gonna go over all the slots and see where i stand on them.

vp baltar

- probably town. i have explained some of this before, but like. if he's scum, his andante tunnel is a sort of complex way to make himself seem busy while knowing she's not gonna tip over today and that he can keep pushing her tomorrow. i don't recall him playing scum like that. and the usual benefit of doing that strategy is avoiding giving reads on other slots, which he has not done. and the andante case doesn't seem like something scum!him is likely to put out at the time that he did.

i don't have any single post that makes me think "aha! town!", and it's not completely out of the question baltar is just playing a solid, meta defying scumgame, but like. definitely not d1 yeet material. probably not d2 or d3. we'll see.

penguinpower

- meh. i never knew how to read the penguin and i don't plan on starting now. the gifs are funny but they're more telling of personality rather than alignment. slightly to the scum side because the "blaming" of the moderator for not providing votecounts when that's the main thing he's interested in on d1 is kinda odd? like, probably doesn't take too long to run from the last vc and see where the votes are at. not a read i would bet any money on, but uh yeah i got nothing else.

something_smart

- slightly townie, mostly for the read on vp baltar and the way he went about it, especially around aristeia. rereading his iso, i liked that he seemed sorta engaged and willing to discuss things with people and requesting for them to interact with him. but i vaguely remember him doing similar offers in holiday dance party. so, uh. probably not town!indicative as i'd hoped.

georgebailey

- georgebailey

implosion

- also probably townie? what i wrote in 932 is probably the crux of this read. most of his other posts feels surface-level similar to other games of him i know where he was town? though this is probably not worth that much since i've never seen his proper scumgame.

@implo

, what's the current state of your read on fireisredsir?

vulture

- i really like their posting towards hutmeil, but i'm aware it's probably not difficult to fake. i think their flat out refusal to give townreads when asked about it is somewhat town!indicative since it doesn't fall into the same category of "haha gonna do this wacky thing for wifom(tm)" that you could argue their strategy suggestion did. and also i find it kind of weird for scum to go "hey there's scum in these three people" then back down and go "yeah idk nvm". like, it makes them seem like they're throwing shade on multiple people at once, but it also doesn't give them an opportunity to "convincingly" walk themselves back from it.

@vulture

, what's your current read on implo?

hutmeil

- mmm idk if i have to add more material here. i dislike the vulture read. the sorta triple-down in 998 is maybe sorta slightly +town because i feel like newbscum's instinct would be to change the thing he keeps getting yelled about, but also if he's scum, he has a team behind him who may be coaching him so this is only baby townpoints. otherwise, the explanations just feel like more words that don't actually say much of anything. but like, not enough people are interested in this slot so i guess i'm gonna leave it alone and hope i manage to solve it later somehow

aristeia

- eheheheh... i'm still leaning town because i am really not sure what scum!ari is doing in this game, because it feels like she's trying to keep the town together and stop them from pushing each other for ??? reason when she could just as well keep her mouth shut and not post is, i struggle to see the scum!motivation behind it. (obviously unless those are her partners, which i'm assuming not for the time being because it's more likely). i'm also slightly worried about her read on baltar kind of not being too present anymore?

andante

- my first thought upon seeing 985 was "lol town" because andante isn't really in trouble right now that she needs to be dishing out ~effort posts~ and i kinda don't think scum!andante does it on her own? at least from what i gathered from holiday dance party. gonna check that mini normal where she was scum, though. ok, i speed-skimmed through her iso there, i don't see any posts big enough to be this level of effort.

i decided to finally recheck that pyp again where i townread her early and i feel like there are enough similarities between andante there and andante here that i can slot her as town for at least d1. or, trust my gut on it at least.

fireisredsir

- zzz i'm getting tired... there have been some townie posts, like 893. 842 is townie since i feel scum doesn't often go "well, this person is scummy for x, but i actually think they're town because of y". overall, this iso feels slightly more boring than what i'd hope a town!fire iso to be, but this read is on hiatus for a bit since they said they're busy irl.

malakittens

- ugh okay here we go. opening three isos (this game, coalition - town, spring fling - scum). i was scum in both of those so it's not ideal for meta but it is what it is. surface level, posts in this game look much closer to the towngame, but we did call her out for not looking like in the towngame so that's to be expected.

i feel content wise... this is closer to her scumgame? like, in the coalition game, she had reads, but they had hints of... disconnected thought process behind them (e.g. scumreading std while also saying she really can't read him), while here everything feels much more artificially "clean". she's jumping around, her posts have more emotion behind them, and there's the "weird gut feeling" of there happening pocketing between me and ari (there was :3, but besides the point). like, it's not explained well and it looks like throwing shade, which makes her look surface-level scummy in that game. that sorta "disconnect" is not present in this game, all her reads seem to be explained in somewhat detail and there's no passion or paranoia i'm feeling. and skimming though her scumgame, i don't think there were any "disconnects" either, so.

this is a bit difficult to explain without quoting a bunch of posts, but i linked the isos so you know. click the links.

gamma emerald

- eh. the iso is kinda... boring. the read on andante doesn't sit well with me and i don't buy the tone argument. also i'd kinda expect town!gamma to scumread me here? idk, gut tells me she'd hate the read i expressed on her, but i might be confbiasing myself here. i was thinking about revisiting that c9++ game where i misread gamma and see how it compares, but uhh it's already 10pm and i wanna go eat dinner and get ready for bed, and gamma's not first on my shitlist anyway so i'm gonna leave meta divign gamma for tomorrow (or until i remember i was gonna do that)

[Datisi]

names are in the order that i made the read on them, sorry i don't have the willpower to sort them

i'd like people (but especially vp baltar) to take a look at the malakittens read i've provided and tell me what they think.

[Datisi]

why am i so far away from you

i'm sorry i wish i could confidently call you town, it would make my life so much easier :<

[Datisi]

I’m TRing you because of gamestate Dats

can you explain in what way is gamestate speaking to you

[Datisi]

You+Ari I want to gamestate TR but Ari, if I read VP’s comment about Hidden Temple right, has a rather solid scumgame

[Datisi]

Feel like were you scum the you-VP-Ari

what did you have in mind?

[Datisi]

the andante case doesn't seem like something scum!him is likely to put out at the time that he did.

I don't know what this is supposed to mean.

i explained it earlier, basically i don't see what scum!you gains from doing that case that early in the day

if you're trying to convince us to flip andante today, then you don't really look Good once you hardshove town!her through today, especially considering how early in the day you dropped a case bc tunneling one person that flipped town is obviously Bad

if you're trying to stay in your tunnel by dropping a case that's meant to not convince anyone so you can stay there... i feel like that's dangerous since you can't know if your team is gonna need you elsewhere (which could make for an awkward shift onto someone), and reading the case i didn't get the feeling that you're intentionally sandbagging the case to make it nit convincing to others

the first scenario tanks your towncred early, the other is sorta overly complex to the point i don't think scum!baltar bothers with it

[Datisi]

They are all the lowest contributing players and newbies

games are easy sometimes

you admit this looks like her town game, and then come up with a fairly undefinable concept of "disconnect" to justify a scum read there

saying it surface level looks like her town game in the way she's formatting posts is not saying this is her town game, in fact that sorta thing is not overly difficult to fake

i feel like i defined "disconnect" well enough -- the "holes in thoughts" and "contradictions" that townies have because human brains aren't machines, but that scum generally try to avoid because they're sometimes seen as scummy

[Datisi]

Do you think this game is easy?

i don't know

but i'm not going to be forcing scumreads on people that i don't scumread because "no way the game is so easy!! must have scumreads on deepwolves!!"

like, is it likely that all three scum is doing fuckall right now? not particularly, no. but i don't plan to lose my mind to paranoia on day one about not having scumreads in the "stronger" players because therefore my entire worldview is wrong and i must throw it away and solve the game on day 1. like, that's just stressing myself out.

[Datisi]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?t=88987

i feel like you gotta point out, i was townreading you because i thought you were my buddy, not because i was trying to pocket you >_>

[Datisi]

i am in a petty mood and i started pulling out quotes from the coalition game to show why i think this is not the same mala (and also because baltar's "my case for town!mala is better" is rich considering his case is "she made posts")

but that's probably kinda stupid because it gives her even more of an idea what to try to emulate if she wants to try to fool me

has that ship sailed already? maybe. we'll see.

[Datisi]

my old GeorgeBailey Reading Algorithm (tm) says he is aligned with the town.

i may or may not have to check whether i've spoken about it in a prior game.

[Datisi]

Datisi, you're good with this?

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

i currently prefer voting mala because i have more concrete reasons to think she's scum than i do for hutmeil, but i don't mind that wagon at all either

to borrow from a good friend of mine, let there be competing wagons

[Datisi]

Spoiler:

i just noticed that the pink text cuts off and there's more of it at the bottom what does it say

[Datisi]

viewtopic.php?p=13424966#p13424966

this is the link in the meme, for those too lazy to find it themselves

[Datisi]

what is the *this*? hutmeil wagon?

if you mean any grand analysis of the specific votes, then

george's vote is slightly townie i think, i might be tunneled on that one tell, but i feel like scum!george is more likely to either ~wagon someone that's currently a wagon~ (easy and lets him blend it) or ~act contrarian on purpose to try to get the towncred~ (i know this is a tactic that scum!george uses sometimes). hutmeil vote accomplishes neither of those, because it's not really a consensus vote / current wagon, but also it's not a hugely hot take that he gets townpoints for originality and bravado

fire's vote is very uninspiring. it follows some sorta trajectory he laid out in thread, sure, but it makes it seem like he didn't care much about his gamma ready and idk i am not vibing with it. (also i just ctrl+f'ed "mala" in his iso and there's a suspect lack of mentioning her despite her being one of the major wagons and :thonk:)

penguin's vote is just penguin being penguin. if you want me to make up stuff about it, i could, but it wouldn't be sincere.

[Datisi]

whether that (my last post) carries on into "so hutmeil is more likely town based on The Wagons", i don't know

the composition of the wagon on him is definitely worse than on mala. i don't think george's or fire's votes are a possible bus. penguin's could be. so. maybe statistically slightly +town, considering i don't know the alignments of the first two.

[Datisi]

i was hoping mala would post a little bit more before i could do more analysis on the similarities and/or differences between this game and coalition. though i don't really plan on unvoting, unless someone else starts really scumming it up.

i'd like to hear ari's thoughts on her mala and fire reads, and how they compare.

[Datisi]

Fwiw, I will join the mala wagon if that's what implo and datisi are doing, since they are probably my strongest townreads at this point. Mala isn't exactly following through on the burst of activity. I also think I'm getting kind of bored with the stagnation today a little bit.

wait, thought you were worried about my pushes being lhf or shallow or what was it?

[Datisi]

hi std

are you a scumfuck again

[Datisi]

spicy indeed

tell me more, tell me more

[Datisi]

you tried to get townie points

i did it as scum because i do it as town

do you actually object to any content i've put out orrr

[Datisi]

I also do think the wagon is valid & I believe I already said it in the past post.

do you have any comments on the fact that you had the opposite stance in coalition (890)

[Datisi]

ive already talked about the reaction to being voted and why i don't think it's really the same, and datisi still being on that point anyway without ever engaging with the points i made while also saying i was ignoring mala is kinda ehhh

? where did you say that?

[Datisi]

ah, okay, i didn't get the argument at first

fine, here's the engagement: i don't think it's a very convincing point overall, and i think if she looked at the votes and saw baltar voting her, she'd probably draw the conclusion he's voting her for her lurky ass play in ktane

[Datisi]

but like, not enough people are interested in this slot so i guess i'm gonna leave it alone and hope i manage to solve it later somehow

this is just very weird to me

why

[Datisi]

i'm mainly asking about the stark difference in reaction to getting voted after lurking

[Datisi]

and if you want something more inspired, i still can't really shake the idea of datisi and hut being scum together

if scumtisi were here, he'd be insulted.

[Datisi]

but like, not enough people are interested in this slot so i guess i'm gonna leave it alone and hope i manage to solve it later somehow

this is just very weird to me

why

bc you're putting the read aside but putting the responsibility of that on other people. like, you are perfectly capable of reading the gamestate and seeing that a few people have suspicion there. if you want to get people interested in the slot, why not wagon there?

the answer you have ready is that you are more sus of mala. that's fine. but then why say this in the first place? just say that it isn't your strongest scumread. why shift the blame onto others for your lack of pressuring the slot?

at the time, more people have said they're against a hut wagon than in favour of it. kinda think that's still the case?

wagoning there is not gonna help because there is only so many ways that i can say "hey hut is scummy because xyz," if they don't like my reasons before, they're not gonna magically like them after i vote there either

"lack of pressuring the slot" is lol considering i was one of the first ones to pressure him and most of his content came as a direct consequence of me, but alright

and i'm not "blaming" others for "not reading there". i'm not gonna completely ignore the slot. i'm just recognizing that it's unlikely they produce content that is going to make them easily readable to me, and that my efforts in this game are better used sorting elsewhere

saying "just" that they're not my strongest scumread would be an incomplete picture of my thought process

[Datisi]

and if you want something more inspired, i still can't really shake the idea of datisi and hut being scum together

if scumtisi were here, he'd be insulted.

what would he have done differently?

you read the champs game, no? i know how to bus. or at least i know what not to do when bussing. this kinda defense-but-not-really-but-sorta looks awful once hut flips red. especially since i was the one to pressure him at first then back off.

like, the only way scumtisi does something like this is if i'm in a game with people who are huge fans of my meta and are gonna use it as a "no way it does that around a buddy", which like

i don't think a playerlist such as that exists, and i definitely don't think that's what you had in mind

[Datisi]

in there you had some early engagement with wiz, he flopped and drew a lot of attention, you voted elsewhere. you then spend most of your scumhunting time engaging with relm while keeping wiz in your scumreads but not actively pressuring him (and telling him in scumchat that things would blow over and people would find something new and shiny to focus on). you then moved onto joe and pushed there for a while. once suspicion on wiz reached kind of a critical mass with guillo being 100% convinced they were scum, you went back to wiz, voted, and then truly started the bus and went deep in casing him, around post 650 in that game

i don't think you would play things exactly the same way, but i don't think "uh i know how to bus" is valid here when, if we are tracking the same pattern of how the gamestate has progressed, we aren't yet to the point where you did a full turn onto your partner and started pushing there. and you did spend a lot of time keeping him in your top scumreads while mostly pressuring elsewhere which would be what you're doing here

also you absolutely would do things intentionally that you think people will later look back on and decide wouldn't make sense for you to do as scum. isn't that like one of your favorite things to do

wasn't that why you were waffling around about the irrel vs mena 1v1 in coalition before bloodhail came in and messed things up

so... your point is that the gamestate is vaguely similar for scumbuddies wiz/datisi, and for buddies hut/datisi... but datisi is intentionally playing different for the sake of wifom?

how likely do you think this is vs. i just so happen to be town regardless of hut's alignment?

because the argument "scumtisi sometimes does intentionally suboptimal moves" is not something you can use to justify scumreading any sort of behaviour for me. not taking a stance on mena/irrel made sense in that game, despite being a "suboptimal" move: town was supposed to chain elim them without me, and then the argument "i would've pushed them as scum" that i make in yeetlo would've had much more weight

deciding to townread a partner based on literally nothing, AFTER being one of the first people to start pushing him and getting attention on him is like, an argument that i can't really bet on anyone here thinking up and convincing themselves of it (maybe aristea, but she'd probably start correctly scumreading me for something else by the time it mattered, so like)

all risk no gain

[Datisi]

like, if i have to write an essay on why my treatment of hutmeil as a partner here is nonsense, in reference with wiz treatment, i will; but i feel like i will be able to scream my way into obvtown if hut flips red anyway, so

[Datisi]

fuckin rip the mala wagon i guess, i'll decide later if i have the conviction and/or willpower for trying to hardshove that wagon through

VOTE: penguinpower

i am also less and less opposed towards a fire wagon. my first thought reading his arguments for me/hut scum was that it's not useful for scum!him at all -- the argument falls flat the second hut flips green (assuming this isn't a 9001 IQ bus), and in the meantime he can get my rage onto him for making an argument that is very clearly extremely false and reachy from my pov

however, aristeia did call him out and vote him for not being inspiring in his pushes, sooooo

[Datisi]

deciding to townread a partner based on literally nothing, AFTER being one of the first people to start pushing him and getting attention on him is like, an argument that i can't really bet on anyone here thinking up and convincing themselves of it

townread? what

last i heard they were still like one of your top scumreads just not as much as mala

townread, defend, same difference

i've made posts towards hut that can be categorised as a townread if you really wanted to make my life miserable; i wasn't gonna be caught dead making such posts towards wiz

[Datisi]

i think the lability of the current gamestate and the knowledge that aristeia can absolutely murder anyone here if she really wanted to make that more likely than average, but /shrug

[Datisi]

like um what even is the point of this conversation about whether Datisi busses Hutmeil or defends Hutmeil when you don't even know what Hutmeil's alignment is?

Maybe he knows huts alignment, and not in a good way.

I also glazed over heavily during this discussion

do you think there's any chance scum!fire is doing this convoluted bus, or that scum!fire is doing ??? with pushing two townies idk

like i really doubt the two are paired because i don't think for starts bussing as early as he'd have had to here?

[Datisi]

also i think the way datisi argues back regardless of hut's alignment is relevant to datisi's alignment and maybe that will eventually help me or other people sort him

really? what makes you think this?

[Datisi]

Datisi

what

also can we get a normal readslist too pls

[Datisi]

unofficial Vote Count 1.datisi

PenguinPower (3):

VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi

hutmeil (3):

GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir, PenguinPower

fireisredsir (2):

Gamma Emerald, Aristeia

Save The Dragons (1):

hutmeil

Gamma Emerald (1):

Malakittens

not voting (3):

Something_Smart, Andante, Save The Dragons

okay, so

one of my biggest problems with a penguinpower yeet is that we don't learn much if he flips green. so here's what we're gonna do:

in your next post, if you're not voting for one of penguinpower/hutmeil, give some reasoning on who you'd prefer to vote for between the two of them, and why. if you don't wanna vote either, explain why and

offer alternatives

. if you *are* voting for one of them, say how good you feel about the vote and what you think about the competition.

[Datisi]

i am increasingly getting more comfortable with a penguin vote, too

my usual feeling of "huh, penguin is doing things that people are townreading him for, guess he's town" has like, died a while ago lmao

i do wanna cover our bases because if we have another day of "eh we yeeted a lurker. eh let's wagon more lurkers" i am gonna mclose it

[Datisi]

how tf is your read on me nd vpb a net negative

why are you townleaning(?) mala

are people allergic of explaining their reads this game

[Datisi]

where is

your

gif list then???

[Datisi]

unofficial Vote Count 1.datisi

PenguinPower (3):

VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi

hutmeil (3):

GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir, PenguinPower

fireisredsir (3):

Gamma Emerald, Aristeia, Save The Dragons

Save The Dragons (1):

hutmeil

Gamma Emerald (1):

Malakittens

not voting (2):

Something_Smart, Andante

okay, so

one of my biggest problems with a penguinpower yeet is that we don't learn much if he flips green. so here's what we're gonna do:

in your next post, if you're not voting for one of penguinpower/hutmeil, give some reasoning on who you'd prefer to vote for between the two of them, and why. if you don't wanna vote either, explain why and

offer alternatives

. if you *are* voting for one of them, say how good you feel about the vote and what you think about the competition.

reposting this so it's not lost on the other page (cough @andante cough)

[Datisi]

hutmeil (3): GeorgeBailey, fireisredsir, PenguinPower
PenguinPower (3): VP Baltar, implosion, Datisi
fireisredsir (2): Gamma Emerald, Aristeia, Save The Dragons

@andante, what do you think about these wagons
@george, what do you think about these wagons

[Datisi]

looking at the plist i think my only really strong townread is vulture/std

how is this std different than coalition std

[Datisi]

Wait, why are you even voting Penguin? I can't find much in your ISO on why you scumread Pengu.

You vote for him, then say we wont learn much from the wagon, then say you stopped townreading him a while ago but nothing to indicate that he's done anything scummy.

the only existing scummy thing he's done is blaming his lack of effort on the mod not providing vc, and doing that weird dismissal of the mala wagon.

the non-existing scummy thing he's done is not giving jack shit about this game

i say we won't learn much from his wagon IF he's town, which i'm currently trying to counteract (: do you think he's town?

[Datisi]

@gamma what do you think about hutmeil and penguinpower

[Datisi]

malakittens, please don't ignore me and the three main wagons and answer the question of how you feel about them and why are you lazily parking on gamma, kthxbye

[Datisi]

Penguin actually got townier

How so?

+1

penguin's trajectory for me has been primarily downwards, i am interested in hearing this

also can you out your vote where your mouth is? i don't want the day to stall for like another week

[Datisi]

why do you respond to something that didn't need a response while ignoring an actual question

[Datisi]

Penguin actually got townier

How so?

[Datisi]

all he's been talking about since is how he likes wagons, has no reads on d1, and the weird dismissal of the mala wagon, what is townie for penguin there?

[Datisi]

no, you said he got townier... and i'm trying to understand why...

[Datisi]

i just wanna understand your thought process???

[Datisi]

he was getting townier.

you said he's getting townier, and cited his posts from 895 onward as the reason why. i do not understand how those posts can make penguin townier, as in my opinion, the only townie thing he's done this game is the gif readslist. so i am asking you to elaborate on how you find him townier for those posts specifically.

if you also wanna further talk about fire/hut and vote one of them (or explain why), i wouldn't complain.

[Datisi]

(1) he didn't explain why he felt the way he did and have you considered asking him about that
(2) all he said he was less sure of a townread of you, how the fuck does that equate to "fire said andante is scum"?

[Datisi]

and (3) if you think he's scum, why are you not voting him

[Datisi]

if you DON'T tr someone, you think they're scum for 1 reason or another, that's just a fact.

no

less sure on a townread =/= don't townread

not townreading =/= scumreading (null reads are a thing)

[Datisi]

god forbid i try to get coherent content out of andante

[Datisi]

s_s, do you have any thoughts(tm) on hutmel, fire, and penguin?

[Datisi]

I kind of wonder why GeorgeBailey hasn't really seen any scrutiny in the same way Malakittens and hutmeil have. I'm not sure if it's a useful question to ask though.

the good ending is because i am right on his intro posts being townie and everyone is sheeping me on it because i am great and correct always

the bad ending is because he's scum and his buddies are trying to not get attention on him

[Datisi]

*For the record I'm not against voting, I'm just waiting till I feel good about voting somewhere, it doesn't help when half the game is currently next to impossible to read

i wonder if
applying pressure
by voting
would make people easier to read
just a thought

[Datisi]

i've seen menalque say many times how the game stalling out like this is +scum ev because the town gets really demotivated to do anything and then scum can just do fuckall too and get away with it

contrary to him, i do not know what else to do to drive this game forward. are you (and this "you" is everyone who is reading this post) opposed to there being a hammer soon? what else are you waiting for?

like, if your complaint is "i don't have a read on xyz" then wagon them up!! they can do fuck all while sitting at three votes, especially if the wagon is completely stalled? need a read on the penguin?? don't like the way he's been doing nothing??? may i introduce you to: clicking the above "vote" button and typing his name there!! my god this game

[Datisi]

penguin vanished after he got questioned about his dismissal of the mala wagon

i know it's probably not *the reason* why he vanished, but it's still kinda funny

[Datisi]

The hutmeil wagon gives me majorly bad vibes as being too easy.

mmm? it's one more than fire and one less than where mala was...

I can see momentum lazily shifting that way. I'm just calling it out before it takes off as a wagon of resignation.

Your vote seems bad to me especially.

so what was this about then?

[Datisi]

1368 said that you seem to scumread pengu for his vote on hutmeil

you deny it and list other reasons for scumreading him in 1371

but the thing i bolded makes it seem like you scumread him for that vote

idk if i'm just being dumb and missing something obvious

[Datisi]

Yeah, I think the Americans are less than tuned into mafia this weekend (myself included).

That being said, vote for Penguin or hutmeil in your next post if you're not already doing so.

No.

VOTE: penguinpower
I’m not confident this flips scum but I think the wagon comp isn’t horrible

?

[Datisi]

but i find penguin scummier than hutmeil ):

why are you appealing to me as opposed to anyone else

[Datisi]

i do not assume

[Datisi]

Sorry for being a lurksack

I'm not opposed to either of these wagons but I don't feel a particular draw to either one. I guess I should just VOTE: hutmeil to tie it up.

since when is that something that you even remotely care about?

[Datisi]

since when is that something that you even remotely care about?

having competing wagons? always? it's literally the best way to get info on D1

???
i do not remember a single time when you praised vca or did it?

[Datisi]

if SS is scum here it would imply hut/penguin are both town I think

surprisingly enough i agree with this, but for a completely different reason

and also i do not think s_s voting here is scummy

it's making me question whether his account has been hacked, but i don't think it's scummy, no

[Datisi]

the people who have been in invictus for longer than i have, does that game impact your read on fire here?

while i don't have a problem with hutmeil voting for self-pres, though i am slightly worried about how the vulture/std read kinda seemingly. disappeared.

[Datisi]

plenty of time to come up with a SR and push there

atp things feel like they are pretty set.

I dunno if that's good or not.

first thing that comes to mind is "scum isn't trying to divert from the wagons". which i'm not sure how helpful it is - if the leading wagons are t/t, then obviously they don't have a lot of desire to shift that. if they're s/s, then, first of all lol, second of all the low activity of pp and hut kinda makes it so that there's not much they can even do right now other than crossvote and hope that people don't think the wagons are s/s.

s/t is the most annoying scenario to analyze -- i imagine it's likely that scum would either be hard pushing for the t, or quietly bussing the s.

none of this is very helpful before flips, and it's even more tainted by the fact that it was just a major usa holiday so absence can be explained, or at least excused that way.

this is a lot of words to say "idk how to do vca, i am tired of this day and want a flip, where tf is the penguin".

[Datisi]

oh yeah, another thing i wanted to say now that invictus is over - i am less sure of my townread on ydra/std. i thought i used to be good at reading her, but as that game has just showed me, no i am not lmfao

so that slot will probably be due to a re-eval at *some point* when i find the willpower to do things in this game again

[Datisi]

VOTE: penguin e-1

If I had a vote available, I'd be hammering right now after that pop in

this

i don't like accusing people if being gone for in-game reasons when it can be because of out of game reasons, but seeing he's present, the avoidance and minimal posting is kinda looking like antispew

[Datisi]

and while competing wagons closed to deadline can be good, the fact that one is lead by the penguin is. uh. y'know. kinda concerning.

[Datisi]

uhhhh

if penguin is scum, i think i would be pretty surprised if s_s or andante are scum? s_s especially, he doesn't strike me as someone willing to try something this nutty. andante *maybe*, she's a bit of a wildcard in my mind, but still pretty unlikely i think. more pressing matters tho -- why.

and while competing wagons closed to deadline can be good, the fact that one is lead by the penguin is. uh. y'know. kinda concerning.

I was literally talking about mala maf before penguins vote, what are you talking about?

he's still the first vote. i don't care who was the first one to talk about it, his vote started the momentum for the other two.

and while competing wagons closed to deadline can be good, the fact that one is lead by the penguin is. uh. y'know. kinda concerning.

um - try and read up.

i'm read up. have you done anything yet?

[Datisi]

for the record, yes i do still scumread mala, no i am not willing to switch away from penguin at this moment in time.

also - i remember one mini normal game where penguin!town got yeeted day 1. i do not remember the number or who was the mod or anything. but. i will attempt to dig it up and see how that compares.

[Datisi]

okay i found it, it was this game: viewtopic.php?f=2&t=86100

i skimmed all of the posts from when penguin got the first vote that was on his eventual eod1 wagon (viewtopic.php?p=12662333#p12662333) up until the end of day 1 (viewtopic.php?p=12663363#p12663363)

and. uh. obviously sample size 1, there was just a holiday here, but if going strictly by this, kill the penguin with fire. in the above game, he had *some* reads while his wagon was going down (there was also a post of "i ain't telling you shit, piss off" - though it was as he was giving reads in other posts lol), and there was a lot more *emotion* about the fact he's being run up. here there's nothing.