Open 856: Deputy cultists (Game over)

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Hey.

VOTE: Nathann

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Remind me, why i should't vote no-lim and let everyone turn cult so everyone win?

Well expect for fact that cult wins on majority, therefore there's always two losers who lose, but who cares?

Do you expect the cult to reward your generosity?

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Enchant probably town.

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Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Can't the PRs prove themselves on later days, though? I don't see why they need to out now.

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As for voting Jacket, they're probably not Cult Leader, and we win by voting CL.

Correct, but why would you say that?

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By the way,
UNVOTE: Jacket
His posts seem to come from a Town mindset.

What have I actually done?

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Does anyone (other than Korina) have thoughts on whether furtiveglance's 64 is Townie or Scummy? It feels like a post I

should

have an opinion on, but I can't quite make it out.

It feels like such blatant ass-kissing I wouldn't expect scum to do it.

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VOTE: cat.jpeg

You seem a little too wrapped up in the mechanics discussion.

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I would figure he wouldn't ask about it if he didn't actually believe there was a difference.

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114 is such a bad take on the situation.

Also, cat.jpeg is probably town. The vote on her is bad - I cousktn understand the set up stuff when enchant and korina were talking, but what cat says actually makes sense? Like, she's the least scummy of the three 'set up' talkers.

Don't agree - enchant very obviously has town minded motivations in what he's saying. cat just seems to be spinning their wheels as a way of having having something to talk about.

VOTE: nathaan

I don't see any of the posts on this page coming from a genuine response.

Explain?

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Read Titus's and BBT's ISOs, then read RH9's. All of them have about the same amount of content. The only difference is that Titus and BBT are not pretending that they're solving anything. While RH9 has posted 8 posts, most of which are tangentially game-related (talking about the setup, etc.) but none of them actually get us anywhere. He doesn't have reads. Other than arguably Townleaning Jacket, who, IMHO, had not done anything worth unvoting at the time. RH9 and Titus/BBT all have zero content, but RH9 is the only of the three who is trying to look like he's contributing.

Kind of a weird distinction to draw. Titus and BBT were both only posting during RVS, RH9 made some posts after. And I'd expect you to know that RH9 tends to make posts that are...weird.

my vote stays static now, have fun.

VOTE: korina

Some people are going call this a prime cultist, but I will be brave and say it's a venge.

VOTE: cat.jpeg

You seem a little too wrapped up in the mechanics discussion.

Umm, what? The lowest poster of the three (Cat, Korina, Enchant). Not making sense to me that..

Sure, if you're literally only looking at post numbers and not actual content it doesn't make sense. Absolutely baffling comment.

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I don't have a read on him.

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I'm not going to pretend to have a lot of opinions 24 hours into Day 1.

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Sure, if you're literally only looking at post numbers and not actual content it doesn't make sense. Absolutely baffling comment.

No. What's baffling is that you think Cat has been posting more mechanic based content than Enchant.

I never claimed they were posting more. I said they were too wrapped up in it. Enchant is working from town motivations in what they say, Cat's posts were filler.

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VOTE: BBT

Okay, now you're willfully trying to misconstrue what I'm saying. It's really not hard to comprehend the difference.

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Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Can't the PRs prove themselves on later days, though? I don't see why they need to out now.

Vengeful proves self by being elimmed and ability to shot. You probably don't want to elim them to prove power, as they are not Cult Leaders.
Governor overrules day 4 and chooses elim. Well, we will know that obviously, but see next letters.

Both remain in power after conversation. Therefore having converted vengeful is not cool, as they turn in mine. It's easier to confirm them now and then don't touch them for game end. Converted Governor plainly gurantee that CL doesh't get killed, more over someone cult desire will elimmed instead.

These posts are someone who is laying out a strategy they believe is the most pro-town and trying to be helpful with it. I doubt they bring it up as cult but they would see it as actively hurting their own interests.

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Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

If both PRs claim then Cult Leader would want to convert them for the ability. But then we would be wary of the PRs and would want to elim them, which if they are town they will get to use their power so maybe it's not that bad. If they aren't town that sucks. Seeing as to progress we need to elim a Cultist though it might be a medium idea. I think D4 governor should reveal, not sure about the others.

Question: It says vengeful townies only have their ability when elimminated. What if one vengeful townie is eliminated and chooses to kill the other vengeful townie? will the second one get a kill as well?

Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?

If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?

Got that.
Thanks, Enchant.
By the way, what happens if there ends up being more than 2 Vengeful claims?

If 3 people claim the only way we can tell who is the cultist is to eliminate one of them them, but 2 out of 3 of them will be telling the truth and we will likely kill a Vengeful townie. Even if we hit the prime cultist it doesn't help us. We could opt to not eliminate them but what if the cultist claiming is the leader?
I think we would have to kill all of them. Luckily because of the Vengeful townie power it would only take one phase. If we hit one of the vengeful townies they could kill one of the other people who claimed and we would know who the liar was although we might have one Vengeful townie kill the other which would suck. If we hit the cultist then yay if leader, eh if prime cultist.
Question now is: What if 4 people claim?

Bad scenario: 3 people claim, we elim a vengeful townie, they kill the other vengeful townie and we are left with 9 ppl 3 original cultists and know who one of the cultists are (I would say we don't elim them immediately but figure out if they are prime or leader by elimming someone else first), we would know the D4 Gov was still town

Other bad scenario: 3 people claim, we elim a vengeful townie, they kill a prime cultist, 9 people, one person confirmed not leader

Maybe, because I feel like it would probably be a prime cultist lying we could hold off on figuring out who was lying or not till we had too. However then one of the two vengeful townies might be a cultist by then and not cooperate.

These are empty posts. They talk a lot about hypothetical scenarios but say maybe this is good, maybe this is bad, and lands on things like "medium idea". It's not advancing anything useful.

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Except for someone else who plays cult a lot apparently believes they shouldn't claim. So are you saying one of them has to be scum for having opposing theories?

Again though, this doesn't relate whatsoever to what your vote post *actually* says

What are you even talking about? That's blatant bullshit.

Are you trying to claim two people disagreeing about the best approach to playing the setup makes them differing alignments? That's nonsensical, people can have different thoughts about how to play the game.

That of course isn't taking into account my read on korina, which is that they're probably trolling to get themselves eliminated, either as venge or as prime cultist. And it's

completely irrelevant

to my read on Enchant or Cat.Jpeg.


No, my vote post is pretty simple, you're just trying to twist it in the most obvious misrep possible.

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I'm saying you seem to think Enchant is town because she is 'game solving'.

Again, outright lie. I never at any point used the words "game solving" in regard to Enchant.

I'm saying someone has suggested a completely opposite theory (meaning that Enchant's proposed theory *could* be scum motivated) but you haven't considered this apparently.

N, I have considered it, I just don't agree with that idea. I think Enchant is saying things out of town motivation, as I've already stated, which you keep trying to twist against me.

Explain the Korina read?

This is more or less repeating what Nathann said, but I really don't see the cult leader coming into the game with such an abrasive entrance

I thought your vote was pretty simple, too. It said you voted for someone who was wrapped up in game mechanics. But it turns out it wasn't for that but because their game theory posts are null? Which are two different reasons and so now I'm confused.

Am I supposed to have complicated, nuanced reasons for a vote a few pages into Day 1? I'll take simple over manufactured bullshit.

Also, I never said I thought their game theory posts are null, other people did, you're literally putting words in my mouth now.

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This is more or less repeating what Nathann said, but I really don't see the cult leader coming into the game with such an abrasive entrance. I think it's drawing too much negative attention to themselves and seems like they're basically trying to get voted, which makes me think prime cultist or trolling vengeful.

EBWOP.

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Moving goalposts for reasoning on a vote isn't alignment indicative for you? Alright, noted.

Yes, right, I'm the one moving goalposts and not you, the person who literally keeps making shit up about what I've said.

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I don't have a read on him.

Defending people without a read on them is annoying.

I can not have a read on someone and still question the reasons they're being scumread.

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Bbt, I tried this tack of discussion with enchant and didn't get massively far either. I found them vaguely scummy for it this morning but think I was possibly just getting frustrated.

P-edit I'm not voting for cat, furtives, I said she seemed town! Nathaan is...fine and I can see their scum read on rh9. I can't work out what to think about korina but think naarhan might be right in that too, which is why this bbt thing is so odd to me.

Also, this stood out - where did you get the idea that Enchant was widely town read?

Okay, so who do you feel like voting for?

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I think BBT is town lightly but I don't think their argument is correct. It just feels like they misinterpreted the situation.
I don't think the push was from a scum intention.

I did have some stuff to say about Enchant but its a moot point now anyway.

Way too early solve: CL is in Titus, Bellaphant, furtiveglance

Why furtive?

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Besides, we established earlier that I was the first person to EVER townread Enchant. So I should really get all the points, if we're doing points. (Are we doing points?)

What the hell is this post.

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@jacket, I think you and bbt is probably t v t, I thought enchant was getting townier before the claim, nathaan is probably town, and then I'm not sure.

In terms of content, Titus is lacking severely, but I kind of vibe with what Nathann was saying about rh9. I feel similarly about beat as well - they are posting but I forget them

Yup. I'm severely lacking.

I'm confused about what you're doing.

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I don't think Korina, Bella, or Enchant are CL.

Explain literally any of these?

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Game feels like it's stuck going nowhere, I've been waiting for something to happen but no one is actually doing anything. People are afraid to start any wagons.


Whatever. I claim vengeful.

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Somehow I wasn't actually expecting a fakeclaim. Think Rh9 makes way more sense as cult doing it than Nathann considering he was significantly more likely to be voted.. But wouldn't bother because cult leader is probably outside the vengeful claims anyway.

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I'd rather we just played.

Not voting (4): Enchant, RH9,

Bellaphant

, Cat.Jpeg

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Of course he game finally blows up on a Friday night when I'm not around to read it

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Here's a thought: What if CL decided to claim vengeful.

This is partly because I'm not over my RH9 sus.

I don't think this ever happens. at some point if we ever decide to resolve the vengeful claims, the cultist in them always dies and the leader dying is a loss for cult.

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For anyone wondering;

Good catch.
Do you think that BBT should be Venged?

Could you remind me when to watch out for Vengeful claims?

This *could* be scum with great foresight but I just don't see it.

RH9 is looking for advice from someone they believe is town on how to play his role.

If we agree that Scum!Jacket isn't first to claim, then that leaves Nathan.

I'm in line with Korina's thinking on elimming a Cultist.

That's not a bad point.

UNVOTE:

I still don't favor voting in venge claims, though.

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Plainly, game won instantly after Cult Leader is dead, so it's always in benefit to simple massclaim D1.

On D2 and afterwards, assuming someone is converted, there will be always doubt that PR is converted and traded claims with Cult Leader to let him not look suspicious.

So... Yep. From my POV i have 1/10 chance to hit CL, if every PR claims without challenge, it turns in 1/7.

Why not?

Can't the PRs prove themselves on later days, though? I don't see why they need to out now.

For what it's worth: I hadn't fully read the setup rules at the time. I had assumed if a vengeful was culted, they would lose their venge. I didn't expect to be a likely cut target and figured I could hold off until later days and prove myself then. The more I thought about what Enchant was saying, though, the more claiming Day 1 made sense.

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Got the answer to the question earlier in thread.

So, is it still +ev to elim RH9 and shoot in the less active players? A) They need sorting and B) they're playing exactly how CL should play.

Can't we just vote in the less active players anyway?

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Jacket, I'm happy to go with Bella, Cat or Titus.

Choose one and I'm in.

Pedit - Korina I don't understand?

Sorry, still reading

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UNVOTE: BBT

I kind of like his recent surge in posting. Also kind of unnerved by furtiveglance's white knighting of me, but meh.

For the record, I wouldn't cry about being eliminated today. Getting to use my Venge shot sounds fun.

This should raise a red flag for anyone. Yeah, thinking Nathann is a cultist here. Going to look at stuff with that in mind.

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I can see now RH is probably real Vengeful. So if we get Jacket/Nathann out today, they can shoot the other if wrong and we at least get a confirmed Cultist out (hopefully the sus Leader!)

VOTE: Jacket

UNVOTE: Jacket

VOTE: Nathann

I just want to vote someone at this point, looks like Nathan has more traction.

What the hell is this sequence?

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Inclined to agree with Jacket that Enchant seems slightly Townie from their posting so far. Probably going to extend that feeling onto Jacket for the time being too.

Beat might be Town for 23. I disagree with the idea, but I think most Scum would be hesitant to recommend that strategy in their first post.

Let's try to VOTE: RH9.

I want to ask why to both of the above posts. Although tbf I am town reading cat for bad reasons.

Can I know what those reasons are?

I don't think Cultists would vote their Leader in RVS. So either 3 town happened to land on CL on page 1, or they aren't Cult Leader. It seems unlikely that the first scenario happened, but I suppose it is possible.

I don't think you're looking at this the right way, exactly - if it's three Townies, they just voted a person without knowing if they're Cult Leader or not. Do you think it's unlikely the three people that voted are all Town? (And this is ignoring the fact distancing would be extremely important in this setup, but y'know.)

Now - I have a question for you.

What is more suspicious:
a) Beat putting Jacket on E-3 in 23
b) BBT putting Korina on E-3 in 43
c) None of the above, you're a cultist trying to distract me from......what were we talking about again?

Both seem equally null to me. If i

had

to pick a more suspicious post of the two, I'd go with BBT's, since they didn't offer any other thoughts, and Beat's comment along the vote is somewhat Townie.

Anything you're seeing in the Y-3 posts?

VOTE: Beat

I'm thinking Jacket + Korina as the Prime Cultists.

Unsure what the vote count is right now, I'm open to eliminating almost anyone. Since it they're Town, then at least the Cult doesn't get to recruit tonight.

Worth noting: No progression or rationale on the vote, no case for why he now think Beat is cult.

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Bella can be Townie for not wanting to go within the CC's.

Cat has just had content that's pretty inoffensive but that made it seem like they're trying to have some sorta presence. There's not much more than that; I don't have a great case on them or anything.

This is really weak, I have no idea why you'd townread someone for a purely mechanical argument.

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Jacket, I'm happy to go with Bella, Cat or Titus.

Choose one and I'm in.

Pedit - Korina I don't understand?

I could go for Bella or cat, I don't necessarily want to vote Titus because she doesn't seem like she's even trying to look town. I'd also vote furtive, his posts have really taken a nosedive for me.

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Sorry about yesterday. Overslept and by the time I woke up the day was already hammered.

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Voting me is dumb. I wouldn't be claiming vengeful as cult, period.

VOTE: Bella

Might as well go back to this, I think the diversion away from her at the end of the day is pretty telling.

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Voting me is dumb. I wouldn't be claiming vengeful as cult, period.

VOTE: Bella

Might as well go back to this, I think the diversion away from her at the end of the day is pretty telling.

Why not?

Enchant, do you think we should go outside of claims?

I don't want to go all game without sorting the Jacket/Nathan thing.

Putting myself in venge claims is a stupid risk that makes no sense to do as leader. Doing it as a cultist is just sacrificing my credibility for no good reason.

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I'm here. Sorry for being inactive, I got sick.

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Caught up. I'm good with a Titus elim.


VOTE: Titus

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I'm not cult.

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I'm not cult.

I see.
Then, what do you think of what furtive said in 732?

It's wrong.

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I'm not disinterested. I just don't have a good idea of who cult is.

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I'm not disinterested. I just don't have a good idea of who cult is.

I see.
Jacket, do you think that there could be Town motivation behind furtive's insistence on limming you?

Yeah I think he's just wrong.

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I think I need to reread to figure out who the cult leader is.

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Bad idea.

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Or just vote no one. Senseless violence hasn't gotten us anywhere so far.

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I disagree.

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Bad choice. Unbelievable. I'm steamed.

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Should have taken the no one vote.

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Nathan?

Enchant?

RH9?

Can we do this?

Just to be safe, I want to wait for Jacket's reaction.

furtive is confirmed cult. I need to read him to figure out who the leader is.

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gg

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As said, gg.

I thought CCing vengeful on Day 1 was the right move to deny town any full clears but in hindsight it was a misplay. It kept me from ever getting elimmed when that should have been the goal, but none of us really had any idea how to play this.

Wasn't really a fan of the setup, it felt like we couldn't have any real strategy and we needed too many mis-elims to win. The roles just weren't that interesting and Day 1 massclaim was optimal and boring. Without the paranoia of alignments changing it doesn't have the main feature of what a cult setup is supposed to be.