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mechanically I don't think a miller makes a lot of sense in a micro, there just doesn't feel like the space for it.
I don't recall ever seeing a miller be in a micro, but if you have experience with a micro with a miller, please link me.
I guess I also don't think Ausuka claims miller in the manner she does - I have a different mental model in my head about how she would claim miller if she were a miller.
It's not something that I feel confident in - just a starting point for early in the day.
Reflecting on this post I really don't like the three steps forward one step back this post has. Feels manipulative. VOTE: Aristeia
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Post #76 (isolation #4) » Wed Jul 27, 2022 9:58 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 73, Donempire wrote:I think the best way to move forward is to L-1 datisi. Days move faster with the threat of a lolhammer on the horizon, and if it does come the second day also moves fast. So i invite the miller to cast their vote, or anyone who wants to be the best player in this here lobby
In post 8, Ausuka wrote:"bruh" is how I feel and will leave it there
happen you can legit read the first few posts in the game for yourself.
In post 18, Xayah wrote:I know we probably won't vote the miller claim day 1 but I do think Ausuka's reaction to rolling miller seems a tad overblown here.
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Post #174 (isolation #7) » Thu Jul 28, 2022 3:01 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
Don strikes me as... reserved in a way.
I don't think it is necessarily AI but I do find it noteworthy.
I think Coral is town for a number of reasons. The 180 on aristeia *could* be scum-motivated sure. But I think it rather is more indicitive of a town move reconsidering the slot.
Datisi is really inquisitive, not shy to share and overall playing pretty solidly towny.
I feel like the way Ausuka has been interacting with other people is Town indicative. I feel like there's plenty to call the slot town regardless of claim.
scamper is meh. Not really having anyhing pointing strongly in either direction.
Aristeia felt manipulative in the post I had previously addressed and in some surrounding ones which is a res flag for me. Sure not much has happened since then but then again they haven't posted much since then either.
In post 207, Datisi wrote:i feel like you're still not understanding what i'm saying in that post or the posts leading up to it, but i am about to pass out so. tomorrow i will rephrase if needed ig
no i'm pretty sure i understand, it's just that i don't agree with your thinking, i don't see coral/xayah as "easy" misyeets, you seem to think they are clearly town and me not seeing this reflects poorly on my alignment, i don't agree with your reasons for townreading them and the logic for doing so seems kind of reach-y
and all that being said i don't really know what it means for your alignment this game
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Post #421 (isolation #13) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 4:56 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I honestly have no clue how anything Ari has been doing in the last few pages could come from a town mindset. It's vague, weak, circular arguements for a read that hasn't been fleshed out since day 2.
In post 421, MegAzumarill wrote:I honestly have no clue how anything Ari has been doing in the last few pages could come from a town mindset. It's vague, weak, circular arguements for a read that hasn't been fleshed out since day 2.
i don't see how any of that matters
weak arguments != scum
i think the way she's handling her scumreads and her approach to them is generally very likely to be town, she doesnt need to put herself out in front so much as mafia and the way she is treating her reads makse me think she really believes in them
i don't think ausuka's response to ari is scummy and i'm leaning on it being +town for her too
i'm not scumreading datisi in this exchange, but i am also explicitly *not* townreading him
It's being presented in an incredibly contrived manner.
The approach is terrible logically and is transparantly bad.
Ausuka responded with the type of frustration I'd expect from a townie in this situation.
Why do you think the approach is townie? Because it puts her front and center? That is literally what a charismatic mafia would WANT to do. It's an incredibly powerful position, and I would not be surprised if this kind of position is why the whole ordeal is so convulited in the first place.
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Post #437 (isolation #16) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 5:16 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 428, Aristeia wrote:like meg I get you are fairly hands off and difficult to read because you don't do much as either alignment and you seem to think it is ok to play the game that way[which fair since not everyone is willing to effort] but it seems hypocritical of you to come in to shade me for "not doing things" when you haven't actually done anything for the entirety of the game.
I've been out of town.
In general I post when I have something to say which isn't all the time.
And my point isn't at you fro not doing anything. My point is what you have been doing feels scum indicative, manipulative, or too convuluted to occur naturally.
In post 428, Aristeia wrote:like meg I get you are fairly hands off and difficult to read because you don't do much as either alignment and you seem to think it is ok to play the game that way[which fair since not everyone is willing to effort] but it seems hypocritical of you to come in to shade me for "not doing things" when you haven't actually done anything for the entirety of the game.
I've been out of town.
In general I post when I have something to say which isn't all the time.
And my point isn't at you fro not doing anything. My point is what you have been doing feels scum indicative, manipulative, or too convuluted to occur naturally.
Who am I manipulating for what purpose
To set up a miselim on Ausuka. (Probably not today but in the future)
To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
In post 421, MegAzumarill wrote:I honestly have no clue how anything Ari has been doing in the last few pages could come from a town mindset. It's vague, weak, circular arguements for a read that hasn't been fleshed out since day 2.
i don't see how any of that matters
weak arguments != scum
i think the way she's handling her scumreads and her approach to them is generally very likely to be town, she doesnt need to put herself out in front so much as mafia and the way she is treating her reads makse me think she really believes in them
i don't think ausuka's response to ari is scummy and i'm leaning on it being +town for her too
i'm not scumreading datisi in this exchange, but i am also explicitly *not* townreading him
It's being presented in an incredibly contrived manner.
The approach is terrible logically and is transparantly bad.
Ausuka responded with the type of frustration I'd expect from a townie in this situation.
Why do you think the approach is townie? Because it puts her front and center? That is literally what a charismatic mafia would WANT to do. It's an incredibly powerful position, and I would not be surprised if this kind of position is why the whole ordeal is so convulited in the first place.
again, you can think her reasoning is contrived and terrible logically but that doesnt make her scum. i think the conviction behind her pushing the read is genuine and her reasoning for it makes sense from her perspective and i dont actually get what your issue with it is supposed to be
no, i dont think a charismtic mafia plays the way ari has, i think charismatic scum players are good at making themselves not be the center of attention. premising it on the idea that "a good scum could play this way" is pretty terrible logic in and of itself. i think that player archetype is actually fairly rare and a player like ari is significantly more likely to take a backseat as scum.
The thing is I think Ari knows its bad and is pushing it anyway. That's not what town does. Period.
Charismatic scum players have numerous ways to play and you do realize for a good portion of the game Ari was doing that. They are always completely on the side or one of the biggest forces on the town. I just haven't seen any middle ground and it's jarring in the least.
Ari is charismatic. I'm not saying "a good mafia could do this" I am saying "it is to Ari's benefit as mafia to do what she is currently doing"
In post 445, MegAzumarill wrote:To set up a miselim on Ausuka. (Probably not today but in the future)
To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
how am I shading in a way that obfuscates my involvement?
do you think a single player here would doubt who is responsible for Ausuka being yeeted if we yeet Ausuka today or tommorrow?
Then stop pushing in a way that prompts others to take the action. Die on the hill articulating your case rather than this convuluted take of "oh you have one lim to hit scum or we kill you" It's a dissonant force you put between the two of you which is the type of thing scum would try to do even jf that wasn't an explicit intention.
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Post #477 (isolation #23) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 6:02 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
I had a whole hypothetical prepared and everything but you just keep doing it blatantly and if people fail to see that there's not really anything I can do.
In post 477, MegAzumarill wrote:I had a whole hypothetical prepared and everything but you just keep doing it blatantly and if people fail to see that there's not really anything I can do.
(1) I am not trying to kill ausuka - I am stating my theory and giving her notice. If I wanted to kill her I would vote for her and push for others to vote for her.
(2) if ausuka were to die today, it is fairly obvious I am the one who killed her because literally nobody else even seems interested in killing her
You are pushing her. Stop pretending that you are not. It's at the very least disengenuous.
You are acting in a way that would encourage Ausuka to die by elimination. These arguments you make in rebuttal of this point is why I consider it obfuscation, not because of some hypothetical world where you wouldn't be at fault for the death. You are denying what you are doing. Previously you were setting up to deny what you are doing. It is disengenuous
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Post #529 (isolation #26) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 2:51 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
:/
Ok first I dont really understand what you mean with the 6 days thing. The game hasn't even lasted 6 days.
For that matter I don't understand why you seem so caught up in the fact I scumread you. You seem frustrated because you don't think my reasonings are valid but I disagree. Disagreemwnts are common in mafia. You should know this. It feels like a weird thing to blow up over.
Like we are playing a game. You are going to be scumread sometimes. Why are you upset? I don't make heads or tails why you seem upset.
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Post #532 (isolation #28) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:00 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
VOTE: scamper
I think this slot deserves a wagon. They've been knowingly withdrawn from sharing even when asked and overall their progression has felt really awkward for lack of a better term. I get the impression of possibly scum staying under the radar. Either way we need some more information coming from this slot.
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Post #536 (isolation #29) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:04 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 531, Aristeia wrote:you can try answering any of my questions instead of pretending you dont know how to read
It turns out its not my job to answer every possible motivation you could have as to doing everything you have done as scum.
Honestly you seeming to think your actions should clear you makes it feel more like a deliberate choice.
But as I've said, I feel like this isn't being productive and it feels like there's miscommunication of some part here so I'm going to drop it for now.
In post 445, MegAzumarill wrote:To set up a miselim on Ausuka. (Probably not today but in the future)
To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
this is your second post of analysis on me.
so you think my approach is
"transparently bad"
"logically shit"
but you also believe it sets up a "strong scum presence" and "sets up a mislim on Ausuka in the future" in a way that "obfuscates my involvement"
so your genius idea
is that scum!me
has decided to set up a future mislim
in a way that makes it look like I didn't do it
and also is ineffective and horribly illogical and unlikely to be convincing.
In post 207, Datisi wrote:i feel like you're still not understanding what i'm saying in that post or the posts leading up to it, but i am about to pass out so. tomorrow i will rephrase if needed ig
no i'm pretty sure i understand, it's just that i don't agree with your thinking, i don't see coral/xayah as "easy" misyeets, you seem to think they are clearly town and me not seeing this reflects poorly on my alignment, i don't agree with your reasons for townreading them and the logic for doing so seems kind of reach-y
and all that being said i don't really know what it means for your alignment this game
I've previously mentioned Ausuka/Datisi/ Coral and the reasons. Datisi hasn't perpetuated the same kind of inquisitiveness but it appears he has been busy so a little drop there but I'd still consider him a townlean.
Ausuka/Coral have stayed around the same with +town points for ausuka since I think they reacted with the kind of frustration I would have in the situation with ari.
Coral I may reconsider but I don't really feel the need to at this time.
Done has moved up my reads list. I don't agree with them on hardly anything but I can see their thought processes and they do seem to be wanting to move the game in a +town state.
Xayah is a palapable "ugh" read. I don't think a lot of what they are doing is +town but can't find reasonable scum motivations to the parts of their play I dislike. I'd consider them my only null read but probably more volatile than my other reads.
I'm just going to ignore Ari for the time being for the sake of everyone's enjoyment. It's a little too heated for any real progress imo.
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Post #559 (isolation #34) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:32 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 547, scamper wrote:also: i have the 4th most posts in the game, i have been explicit about what my reads are, i have presented reasons for what i find suspect
i have no idea what "information" you are expecting from me here
Most of your posts have been in response to things in the game. It feels like you are playing around the game rather than diving in. Reactivity rather than proactivity, which is by itself NAI.
It's hard to articulate but it's an explicitly different type of information you can get out of these kind of proactive posts rather than reactive posts.
Also I keep forgetting galron exists so that's something.
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Post #562 (isolation #36) » Sat Jul 30, 2022 3:38 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
somehow missed 558 on the preview screen
Why do you think someone being town can be completely transparent? Have you ever played a game where everyone has just townread a specific player day 1 for the same reason?
I've seen it happen sometime for newbies or early claims but those are special cases.
I overreacted yesterday probably. still don't like Ari's push on me and don't want to rule her out as scum but I'm not sure she has that much reason to take this angle as scum rn when it feels like she would be going to extremes of anger and effort for not a massive amount of benefit? and even though I disagree I guess her blowing up at meg feels sort of towny
i don't really have any wagons I'd be interested in other than this, I think galron slot has been pretty consistently wolfy. I thought I've explained the why of it already but I'd be happy to elaborate
idk if it means anything at all but fwiw im 99.9% certain this is town!ari now
do you think ari is town from this or do you think ausuka is town
In post 567, MegAzumarill wrote:I want to put you (skitter)in a situation where you are forced to give proactive posts.
By definition I can't tell you what to post or it would be reactive.
so let me get this straight:
- you think i've been too reactive and this makes me scum somehow
Yes and no. I've said its NAI.
- you say you want information from me because i've been "withdrawn"
A better term is reactive, but yes
- you hope to get this by wagoning me
Yes
- somehow in your mind voting me is going to force me to play in a way that is not reactive
With suitable votes it would.
- but also youre not going to actually say what it is youre looking for or what i'm supposedly missing, because then i would be able to actually provide it
Im not asking for something like a readslist. I want to analyze behavior but its hard to find anything in the current context.
I overreacted yesterday probably. still don't like Ari's push on me and don't want to rule her out as scum but I'm not sure she has that much reason to take this angle as scum rn when it feels like she would be going to extremes of anger and effort for not a massive amount of benefit? and even though I disagree I guess her blowing up at meg feels sort of towny
i don't really have any wagons I'd be interested in other than this, I think galron slot has been pretty consistently wolfy. I thought I've explained the why of it already but I'd be happy to elaborate
idk if it means anything at all but fwiw im 99.9% certain this is town!ari now
do you think ari is town from this or do you think ausuka is town
that is me talking to ausuka
no offense, but is english not your first language or something because you seem to have extreme difficulty in actually understanding the meaning of posts
It is my first language.
To be fair the post was ambiguous
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Post #604 (isolation #45) » Sun Jul 31, 2022 3:45 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 582, scamper wrote:i would have no problem with it if you had simply said i was scummy and deserved to be pressured. you would be wrong still, but it would make sense
the issue i have is that the things you are saying are illogical, and when i directly contradict the arguments you are making you go "no that isn't what i meant you're misconstruing me" and get evasive instead of going into what specifically you actually find scummy about my posting. it has been basically impossible to get a coherent explanation of your reasoning and you seem resistant to actually doing so. this makes you incredibly difficult to work with in any meaningful fashion and it's a serious problem if you are town
What I want from your slot != why I think you are scummy.
I think you are scummy because you've for the most part been vague about youe thought processes, have actively misconstrued players' arguments, and then denied doing just that.
What I want from your slot is information in a new context to tell if you are town playing poorly or just scum.
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Post #625 (isolation #47) » Sun Jul 31, 2022 11:09 am
Postby MegAzumarill »
The idea that scum doesn't get frustrated is baffling.
Take NQNM II for example. The same kind of frustrating blowup in a 1v1. Both sides of the argument were scum (on different teams)
I think a noteworthy part of the exchange is that it took a lot of the exchange before ari presented any suspicions about me being scum which feels like something that could be an easy conclusion to make as town in her position.
In post 445, MegAzumarill wrote:To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
i dont' understand how rhese two can exist togehter
also like, i don't suderstand what scum presence is ari trying to accmplish by shitfighting w ausuka when i feel like most people just ignore/skip that sorta thing or tend to maybe scumread it
That post is a list of possible reasons. The intention was never all 3 concurrently. A or B or C not A and B and C
In post 445, MegAzumarill wrote:To try and gain a strong scum prescence in the thread to direct conversations into this issue
To shade in a way that obfuscates your involvement
i dont' understand how rhese two can exist togehter
also like, i don't suderstand what scum presence is ari trying to accmplish by shitfighting w ausuka when i feel like most people just ignore/skip that sorta thing or tend to maybe scumread it
That post is a list of possible reasons. The intention was never all 3 concurrently. A or B or C not A and B and C
I really don't know what you've been talking about with Ari and why you said that post would end the day
I still think we lim galron here and he's probably wanting us all to get distracted if I had to guess
Its fine
I was going to make a case on ari, and i didnt since she ended up replacing out. My anectode was just to stop the in my eyes undeserved townreads she got. So its not a case by itself.
And yes im pissed im not getting to morb my actual scumread so im going to have to deathtunnel you. Im sorry im not morbing outside the three i mentioned
Remind me who the one you wabted to kill originally was and why
thx
Done:- I think a lot of Done's stuff this game is stuff that can easily faked, so I had to pause when thinking of where I thought they were, but the thing that really makes them a strong town for me is how they've approached slots and this game. If Done is a wolf they've put so much pressure in town's favor for no reason with just how they've acted alone. It's just more likely they're a wolf.
Ari: I thought Ari was a townie during our interaction but the blowup kinda just put them into lock town because it's very hard to fake that level of emotion as a wolf because you would know you're in the wrong and it just screams upset townie. It's clear Ari is trying to solve slots and sort players and when people didn't agree with her logic she poked and got a little upset about it. Would be very shocked if wolf.
Meg: I think Meg is a slot I could be wrong on placing this far up, but compared to the other slots I've just had a good feeling about them ever since they started posting more the angles they've taken seem to come from a place like a townie trying to figure things out not someone with all the answers, there's a level of stubbornness that wolves don't have that Meg reached.
I like all 3 here
Here is the TRs at least. Don't get the done read, though.
In post 621, Donempire wrote:Or i will just make a short anectode showing why she can both be genuine in her anger and still be scum.
Back when i was still inexperienced i rolled scum in a newbie game. It was going very well and i was universally townread. I was also doing jackshit to help town, so win win for me. Then someone started tunneling on me for reasons i thought were complete bullshit (didnt recheck it to see if it was, i just remember being pissed about it). And he just would not let go of his tunnel on me. At that time, i was furious not just because he was right on me being scum, but because his argument made no sense and he just got a lucky guess. So we went on a tirade that was very childish of me but was still genuine, and i came out of it being townread even more. The reason was everyone thought my anger was genuine, which it was, so it made me town.
When you overlay my example with her case, it fits somewhat. Shes getting pissed because someone she views as coasting through the day without giving any effort now finds her suspicious. Shes getting angry at being scumread, but moreso by being scumread specifically by meg. I think scum!ari would believe meg doesnt deserve to have the correct read, just like i thought in my game.
I will not lynch aris replacement today, and my read wont carry over to her replacement. I wanted to point this out for anyone tring her for this reason.
you're just wrong here, i'm sorry
you can ague that in a generalized case tilt is not always scum-indicative but in particular the way ari went off is just not scum-indicative, because in between the insults she was making criticism of megs logic that were basically entirely valid
in fact this is pretty lazy shorthand to just go anger=scum
Thats not the point at all.
You really give the impression of going out of your way to misunderstand people. This is at least the third entire player you've done this too.
In post 625, MegAzumarill wrote:The idea that scum doesn't get frustrated is baffling.
Take NQNM II for example. The same kind of frustrating blowup in a 1v1. Both sides of the argument were scum (on different teams)
I think a noteworthy part of the exchange is that it took a lot of the exchange before ari presented any suspicions about me being scum which feels like something that could be an easy conclusion to make as town in her position.
It's worth consideration imho.
this is not what i am saying
i am saying the way ari acted in particular is very strongly town-indicative
In what way? I know you've been over this but I think you should restate.
In post 621, Donempire wrote:Or i will just make a short anectode showing why she can both be genuine in her anger and still be scum.
Back when i was still inexperienced i rolled scum in a newbie game. It was going very well and i was universally townread. I was also doing jackshit to help town, so win win for me. Then someone started tunneling on me for reasons i thought were complete bullshit (didnt recheck it to see if it was, i just remember being pissed about it). And he just would not let go of his tunnel on me. At that time, i was furious not just because he was right on me being scum, but because his argument made no sense and he just got a lucky guess. So we went on a tirade that was very childish of me but was still genuine, and i came out of it being townread even more. The reason was everyone thought my anger was genuine, which it was, so it made me town.
When you overlay my example with her case, it fits somewhat. Shes getting pissed because someone she views as coasting through the day without giving any effort now finds her suspicious. Shes getting angry at being scumread, but moreso by being scumread specifically by meg. I think scum!ari would believe meg doesnt deserve to have the correct read, just like i thought in my game.
I will not lynch aris replacement today, and my read wont carry over to her replacement. I wanted to point this out for anyone tring her for this reason.
you're just wrong here, i'm sorry
you can ague that in a generalized case tilt is not always scum-indicative but in particular the way ari went off is just not scum-indicative, because in between the insults she was making criticism of megs logic that were basically entirely valid
in fact this is pretty lazy shorthand to just go anger=scum
Thats not the point at all.
You really give the impression of going out of your way to misunderstand people. This is at least the third entire player you've done this too.
forgive me if i'm not keen to listen on how i'm "going out of my way to misunderstand people" from someone who has difficulty comprehending the meaning of a single sentence
1. ad hominem
2. You do understand that it looks intentional on your part by a large margin right? At least fault in tour court here. I understand some dissonance from perhaps one style of posting, but its occurred so numerously at this point with three different people with three different types of writing and you still seem to be getting arguments wrong.
It's not a good look. Lack of effort, perspective, or good intent feels almost guarenteed here
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Post #699 (isolation #59) » Sun Jul 31, 2022 12:07 pm
Postby MegAzumarill »
In post 695, scamper wrote:i dont actually know how to explain this without meta, which i have been trying to avoid
but this is town!ari, i have seen town!ari act in exactly this way on multiple occasions. ari cares too much and she gets worked up about the game and blows up when she thinks someone is playing badly. none of the way she's played this game is how she plays as scum
And yet you are acting like this should be obvious public knowledge? That's my impression from how you have treated this issue with Done and me.
If you are basing this off of personal experience it seems both unfair and unlikely you would try and assume that same kind of conclusion could be made by another.