Micro 1059: Micro & Normal Stuff | GAME OVER

[Donempire]

I'm a miller >.>

VOTE: Datisi

No, i'm miller.

VOTE: Datisi

L-2

[Donempire]

On Ausuka, I personally lean slightly town on the claim. I think it would draw too much unwanted attention for her to be willing to fake it.

Why? She loses nothing from claiming it (unless shes rolecopped ig). As far as claims go, its definitely safer than claiming VT anyway, the suspicion will blow over in a day max

[Donempire]

I think Ausuka's Miller claim is NAI in and of itself and while it presents the possibility that she's fakeclaiming, I believe it's too early in the day to be talking about "yeeting" anybody, given that we're only 30-ish posts in. If there's no better option by the end of the day, for example, then sure, but I think we should see how the game plays out for now.

i am!

i kinda think phoenix is townie

Disagree so far
38 struck me as a little lamist.

Phoenix, didn't you say my claim was NAI? That doesn't sound like you get where she's coming from.

I did. I think it is NAI by itself, but in a scenario where at the end of the day there's no good options for an elimination, I'd choose the player who has claimed Miller over someone who hasn't cause betting on someone having fakeclaimed Miller at the beginning of D1 is better than voting at random, IMO. I think Aristeia is saying the same thing (@Aristeia: Feel free to correct me if I'm misinterpreting), it's just the way she phrased it that bugged me cause it made it seem in my eyes that she's fine "yeeting" you right now as it is, which I'm not.

It is completely the same thing as voting at random. A miller claim is disprovable, it is the same thing as claiming a vanilla townie or jester. You might think this locks them into a claim, but they can just retract the claim, say they were joking. Honestly, nothing that happens in the first few days are concrete, but they are still the most important part in understanding someone mayhaps.

Why would you believe a miller claim over someone else? Thats the first time i've heard that, usually miller is a troll claim.

[Donempire]

I only meant to quote post 40 there. I am unfortunately not 80 years old and therefore cant use forum formatting

[Donempire]

I think the best way to move forward is to L-1 datisi. Days move faster with the threat of a lolhammer on the horizon, and if it does come the second day also moves fast. So i invite the miller to cast their vote, or anyone who wants to be the best player in this here lobby

[Donempire]

I think the best way to move forward is to L-1 datisi. Days move faster with the threat of a lolhammer on the horizon, and if it does come the second day also moves fast. So i invite the miller to cast their vote, or anyone who wants to be the best player in this here lobby

mmm i really hate this. i feel like lolhammers aren't really uncommon, and lolyeeting a townie on day 1, 3 pages in, would be Not Really Good. don hasn't expressed actually being suspicious of me, so i'm assuming this is supposed to be a "for the pressure" vote, but like. what does he think it's gonna achieve in terms of my posting if i'm at y-2 or y-1?

Its not an immediate reaction i'm looking for. If someone stays l-1 for say 2 days, well their posts can reveal a lot during those two days. Even if you didnt panic when put on l-1, as long as that wagon is relevant you're going to feel the pressure.
And yes, i know lolhammers arent uncommon. I also know that i won all the games i played that had a lolhammer. So, i'm all for spicing it up. Chaos reveals peoples alignments more than reasonable discussion, so i'm all for random lynching. In fact, if a townie is lolhammered, town has a %100 chance to win! Why that is, i cannot say yet because the inexperienced scum can play around that, but you know.

Vote datisi everyone

[Donempire]

On Ausuka, I personally lean slightly town on the claim. I think it would draw too much unwanted attention for her to be willing to fake it.

Why? She loses nothing from claiming it (unless shes rolecopped ig). As far as claims go, its definitely safer than claiming VT anyway, the suspicion will blow over in a day max

Maybe I just trust the vibe that she seems genuinely feeling rather "bruh" about the situation. It's a very well-faked tone if it is fake, since it leaks into her other posts as well. As scum she would probably be laughing internally at going for a silly gambit like that, and I don't feel any undertones of suppressed laughter.

I recognize that this is reading a lot into it, but I personally think it's fair to do so in this situation

Well keeping the tone consistent is scums priority. As town, i can play however i want because i do not care. As scum, i want to paint a picture of myself and want it consistent. So a tonal consistency wouldn't mean anything, it would just mean scum!ausuka knows how to play.

[Donempire]

I also know that i won all the games i played that had a lolhammer.

i know this to be false as i modded a game you were town in that had a lolhammer and that you lost

also i absolutely hate this push-but-not-really on me

VOTE: done

Oops

[Donempire]

I agree with a coral vote.

Putting me on L-1 isnt cruel, it is what i want. I didnt exempt myself from my tactic, so why not act according to it? Also, you are suspicious of me, you're also saying you're unsure and you're not doing the one thing that can put pressure on me. How is it supposed to help you determine my alignment if you keep guessing in the dark?

As for my playstyle, this is non alignment indicative for me. We're still in rvs, BUT if i was put on L-1, that would have been helpfull for us.. that said, i dont mind a coral wagon.
VOTE: Coral

[Donempire]

This post is important

I would probably be switching my vote to Don here but I think they're at E-2 already and it seems a little twisted to put them at E-1 for suggesting that we put someone else at E-1. It does feel like they're kind of all over the place and I struggle to see a consistent town mindset. That makes me think they could be intentionally trying to look like the town they describe as "playing however they want". The issue is that I don't understand the motivations behind anything they're doing, so it just feels random for the sake of chaos.

Here is an attempt to soft buddy me. Coral knows i am under fire, and by saying they wont vote for me theres an attempt here. Of course by saying they're still suspicious of me there is no concrete stance taken here. What they are doing is to signal to me "everyone suspects you, but i can be open minded". And as scum, they know i'm town, and would want to leave a positive impression on me without going too hard on buddying.

[Donempire]

I didn't think it was cruel, I thought the logic behind the concept of it was funny in a dark irony sort of way. I don't agree with your tactic and therefore I don't think it should be applied to you either despite my suspicion. My point was that the pressure on you was already sufficient without my vote.

I don't see where you get that I was trying to appear open-minded. I recognize that my phrasing in that post was a little awkward, since I had kind of a bunch of thoughts that I didn't really take the time to string together in a cohesive way, but I think that all of the thoughts I expressed land squarely on the side of "suspicious of Dom".

What about that post do you view as buddying?

How was the pressure on me sufficient? There isn't any risk to being put on L-2, not this early.

[Donempire]

The post itself was fluff, and thats why i didnt like it. You might say there is content because you're clearly suspecting me, but throwing shade and not following it up doesnt constitute a scumread, which i guess you say as well.

So the reason for that post isnt to put pressure on me, because there is no line of inquiry or a scumread, because i had enough pressure on me. But the point for that post isnt to state a read either, because you're not sure what my playstyle means.

Thats why the real purpose of that post is either a fluff nothing post to seem as though you're saying something while not saying it, or its a buddying post.

The former makes sense because you start by saying my actions dont make sense, therefore i might be scum distracting you, then go back to saying my actions dont make sense so you cant get a read on me. Its a nothing burger of a post looking as though you're sring me, while you can take it to mean you were either sring me or you were fencesitting later if asked about it.

I thought this was a buddying post, but i'm not so confident anymore. But i said it could be, so this is how: you believe i am under pressure, you imply that you scumlean me but dont want to vote me yet, implying that you would be willing to listen to my defense if i had one.. Reason i'm not confident anymore is because its pretty half assed if it is an attempt, which takes me back to the post just being filler.

[Donempire]

Sufficient to influence your actions, which is the main goal of pressure: to see how people respond to it. E-1 is more pressure than I have interest in placing on anyone at this point in the game.

I understand your thought process.

[Donempire]

If you want to put pressure on me, i am on L-3 right now.

[Donempire]

Putting me on L-1 isnt cruel, it is what i want.

what do you think you will accomplish in this game by being put at y-1 that you cannot do while at y-2?

i don't get how you're coming to the conclusion that coral is trying to be open minded with you, when the entirety of her post towards you feels negative.

do you have any reads other than coral?

there's a lolhammer potential at l-1. that alone would be enough pressure, there's also the fact that someone not on the wagon might force a claim. not saying it would happen, but there is a chance, and i've seen it happen before. honestly, i can't be sure of every possibility and thats why i'm gunning for this. being at l-1 is unpredictable, the game being unpredictable causes scum to slip up. town can afford to make mistakes, scum really can't.

coral didnt suspect me outright like you did. she was fence sitty on my alignment, and didnt vote for me. sure it sounds negative, but she said nothing overtly negative about me, accused me or questioned me. its as tame as a suspicion post can get.

[Donempire]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

[Donempire]

I feel fine enough about most people in the thread that they've given me enough to work with minus Meg and Ari so I will continue voting them until further notice

I am not sure this method of scumhunting is very fruitful

I agree with this. Pressuring the inactive players might give us one post from them, and then we'd be back to waiting. It might be more usefull to do back and forth with the active players instead of prodding the inactive players for their one post of the day.

[Donempire]

i didnt express a read on coral either. but i'll be clear to avoid confusion, i lean scum on her. i think she's playing overly safe.

as for scamper , he doesnt bring up any new points himself. his playstyle seems reactionary and too safe. I don't like it.

dont have a read on anyone else. games too slow

i dont know what you mean by "not bringing up new points", i feel like i've had original thoughts, and i dont think ive been playing it particularly safe with how ive been approaching people. you can call it "reactionary" ig, but that's just bcause i prefer to wait and observe until something catches my attention

But that is what i am saying. I'm not saying you have unoriginal comments. You wait for someone else to push or do something and then comment on it, you never start a discussion yourself. Not to say questioning others is bad, but if its the only thing you are doing then theres nothing to analyze you by. Like you said, you are simply observing the conversation, that makes you hard to read and slows down the tempo.

As for the safety of your comments, you have been very distanced. No hard stances, no serious pushes. You are playing it safe.

[Donempire]

it's like. i think coral's reason for switching off aristeia is *fine*

what
This is coral's reasoning for her vote switch:

It was a very gut-based reasoning initially, and a gut-based reasoning changed my mind as well. I was looking at the playerlist and found myself thinking a lot of the people posting felt town to me, and she felt slightly off, so I voted there to see what happened.

Then, when reviewing her ISO, I was reminded of 29, and something about it to me just feels like a very town response for her to give. I know it's basically an RVS nothing-post, but it is what changed my mind, so that's what you get!

Post she is talking about:

scamper is too cute to vote tho >___>

So her reasoning for the ari vote is a gut read, and the reason she got off the wagon is another gut lean. Even in 127 she says that this is a nothing reason to change her to vote, so i dont understand what part of this vote switch is fine?

[Donempire]

aristeia town
ausuka maf

no problem

more content would be appreciated

[Donempire]

i don't think anything right now merits a hard stance or a serious push, though

i can't manufacture opinions i don't have

You make the pushes yourself, thats my point. Like this:
VOTE: Scamper
And this is a serious wagon.

[Donempire]

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

[Donempire]

Morning
My cat just killed a pigeon inside my house, woke me up at 5 am and dragged his bloody and feathery body through the house. How did your day start?
I'll get to everything but i'll be busy cleaning up for a while

[Donempire]

weren't a few other people pushing phoenix tho

okay, like. what i wanted to say is that i am on the lookout on people who are pushing potential townies for reasons that i don't exactly jive with. i'm not saying i have to agree, just that it makes sense even if i disagree. and your pushes around the two of those didn't make immediate sense to me. plus the fact i think they're town currently. and also the fact that singling in on one easy misyeet is risky because if that one somehow slips then you're in trouble, while testing the waters for multiple misyeets and seeing if there's any other easy ones would be Better. also pho could be your partner technically.

i did not feel like writing all of that out, so i hoped it would be self-evident by saying "scum wants easy stuff" sorry if it wasn't

pretend the paragraph is well-formatted, i'm about to sleep and i don't have the nerves to format it coherently

again, by your own definition i would say phoenix is significantly "easier" any way you look at it, and in a vacuum the newb-ish player is always going to be an easier yeet. the idea that us disagreeing on reads makes me scummy just feels like a very reductive way of thinking to me, like it feels like you're jumping to a conclusion rather than trying to figure out whether my reasoning is genuine or not

I don't agree with this. New players will be under a lot of scrutiny and they are more likely to make mistakes as scum, but they are also likely to make mistakes as town. Experienced players know this and dont bandwagon them blindly, and wait for harder tells. If anything a new player is harder to push because so many people town and scum will come to their defense claiming their inexperience means their posts are NAI. I havent seen if anyone did this regarding phoenix specifically, just saying that i dont agree with the idea that new players are easy to lim, i think calling anyone an easy mislim is just wrong. Even if its easier to push someone compared to someone else actually limming anyone requires about the same effort.

Since i say this i dont really jive well with dats reasoning that you are pushing easy mislims either. I think your pushes havent been the problem.

Removed the L word - Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

Okay, i misunderstood what dats meant, scratch that last part from my last post, my bad

[Donempire]

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.

I mean, even if you think it's anti town does that make Done mafia?

Not necessarily but it's worth finding out isn't it?

Lol, sure its worth finding out. What do you propose we do to find my alignment?

[Donempire]

btw, done, the l-word has been banned, so you probably shouldn't say it

thanks for the heads up

[Donempire]

Ohai, euro gang is online. I'm kinda directionless atm so i'll need you to keep me occupied so i can think

Whats the weather like where you guys are, as in how how is it? Its 35 celcius here and no humidity, and it goes up to 40 degrees sometimes. Heard uk was also experienced temperature records, how are you holding up ausuka? I can't even get out of the house right now and if i do i gotta get to an indoors place, otherwise i literally cant see from all the sweat.

[Donempire]

meg is still townie. the wiki link was funny but i also find it townie. it doesn't win favours it doesn't "look" townie but it's showing a thought process.

ari is also lowkey townie. the agruing with xayah doesn't do much for her position in game which like. idk why scum!her would care kinda. yes this is directly going against what i said earlier about their convo, fight me

every other slot feels muddy

ama

Interesting, i think he's town as well. The content of his posts arent what convinces me, but rather i think the scum have a stranglehold on the conversation and someone as inactive as him wouldnt be able to manipulate the discourse as much as it has been manipulated. The days are going agonizingly slowly and nothings getting done, even though there have been many opportunities for cross examination and wagons.

Which brings me to the point that of the 3 most active users, meaning ari, you and ausuka, one of you is almost certainly scum. The reason i didnt include xayah is she seems to distanced from the general discourse and seems to be doing her own thing.

[Donempire]

oh hi done, did you ever answer that question I asked you? I can't remember you doing so but I guess I could have missed it

The heatwave got to 40 degrees here, I survived by camping by the fan. It's like 15 degrees here now which is optimal temperature imo

No, i'll answer it now.
The weather seems abnormal even for summer. I cant even take a cold shower without feeling like im burning, and its not even 40 degrees here right now

This post is important

Here is an attempt to soft buddy me. Coral knows i am under fire, and by saying they wont vote for me theres an attempt here. Of course by saying they're still suspicious of me there is no concrete stance taken here. What they are doing is to signal to me "everyone suspects you, but i can be open minded". And as scum, they know i'm town, and would want to leave a positive impression on me without going too hard on buddying.

Ok, but why is this possibility probable compared to Coral just not wanting to put you at L1 so early? I don't think you not liking her refusing to L1 you was unpredictable and I think if you're trying to buddy someone falling them 'all over the place' is likely to be counterproductive. Basically I don't understand your thought process here

If she didnt want to put me on L-1 or pressure me in general, why make a post saying she was suspicious of me? And her calling me all over the place is better than calling me nefarious, it implies shes unsure even though everything else in that post screamed "yeah dong is most likely scum"

it's actually kinda nice right now because there's a lot of clouds and a bit of wind, it seems like a summer storm is coming

i am hoping it is because that would mean few customers in the café and THAT would mean slacking off and playing mafia at work

also the scamper scumcase when you can pls

it's actually kinda nice right now because there's a lot of clouds and a bit of wind, it seems like a summer storm is coming

i am hoping it is because that would mean few customers in the café and THAT would mean slacking off and playing mafia at work

Wouldnt a rainy weather be the best weather to sit at a cafe? Maybe its turkish cafes but most of them dont have any cooling so im just sitting in there with my ass sweating bullets, only some chain cafes like starbucks have them which i dont really like. Regardless good to hear you're not burning, i have to shower twice a day here

also the scamper scumcase when you can pls

I gave up on it.

[Donempire]

I lowkey think maybe the scum team is just Ausuka/Datisi for ~reasons~ but I want Dats to roll town with me finally so I am going to hope it's just no true ^^

You hit the nail on the head. What would the reasons you mentioned be? Gut, any posts? Because you're correct, but i wanna see you solve this yourself first.

[Donempire]

I lowkey think maybe the scum team is just Ausuka/Datisi for ~reasons~ but I want Dats to roll town with me finally so I am going to hope it's just no true ^^

You hit the nail on the head. What would the reasons you mentioned be? Gut, any posts? Because you're correct, but i wanna see you solve this yourself first.

they have a level of comfort interacting with each other that I think is missing in their interactions with other people.

Sadly that is probably NAI. They are familiar, they've been friendly since page 1.
I think the miller claim is something we should be thinking about more and how it pertains to an Ausuka/datisi team, specifically ausuka's alignment. First post says that scum have daychat, but it doesnt say if the daychat opened before the game started or once the day began. Normally, daychat starts before the game does, so a miller claim could have been strategized beforehand. If not, there is no way i see scum!ausuka fakeclaiming miller without consulting with her buddy, she posted 10 minutes after game started.

@Irrelephant can we get info on when the daychat was enabled, before or after day began?

[Donempire]

it's fine I'm a N2 combined bodyguard vigilante

damn mods got favourites clearly

[Donempire]

Maybe I just rolled miller


Like as scum I literally never claim miller, not for strategic reasons but because I would never involve myself in all this claim speculation BS voluntarily

Your partner might have told you to.
I dont think this is a point worth discussing until one of the mods clarifies this. I'll just say this, claiming miller as scum in a game with uncertain setup is a gambit with very little risk. I dont think your claim by itself should be trusted.

[Donempire]

I don't understand why you feel the need to defend yourself if you're convinced I'm scum and pushing you for mislim.

I'm fine with being flipped first.

Are you? I dont think you're serious about this if you are town.
Imagine we lim you, you flip town. What incentive do we have to lim ausuka then? You claim a slip up . Well all that can be argued away. Especially if you arent her partner, no way her buddy lets her get limmed on that weak of a premise alone. And on the off chance we do lim ausuka somehow, we have no info going into d3 because we limmed someone who dared us to, and then we limmed someone for a supposed slip up. We go to 5 people with nothing at hand. And remember, this is all

IF

ausuka is scum. If she isnt, we lynched two townies for no reason, we go to LYLO with nothing and auto lose.
So why not keep playing? We're still waiting on mod confirmation anyway, there are 5 people who havent had a word in during this and we have no plan going forward if we do this.
I vote not to end the day until less than 4 hours remain. The more we discuss, the more bullshit we peddle, the more fluff we post, the more we have to look back retroactively. This is the only day we have 9 people present, so i vote not to rush it.

Removed the L word - Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

I can answer you Don but please edit your post to not include the L word thanks

you cant edit posts in mafia games,

@irrelephant if you dont mind

[Donempire]

I don't understand why you feel the need to defend yourself if you're convinced I'm scum and pushing you for mislim.

I'm fine with being flipped first.

Are you? I dont think you're serious about this if you are town.
Imagine we morb you, you flip town. What incentive do we have to morb ausuka then? You claim a slip up . Well all that can be argued away. Especially if you arent her partner, no way her buddy lets her get morbed on that weak of a premise alone. And on the off chance we do morb ausuka somehow, we have no info going into d3 because we morbed someone who dared us to, and then we morbed someone for a supposed slip up. We go to 5 people with nothing at hand. And remember, this is all

IF

ausuka is scum. If she isnt, we morbed two townies for no reason, we go to LYLO with nothing and auto lose.
So why not keep playing? We're still waiting on mod confirmation anyway, there are 5 people who havent had a word in during this and we have no plan going forward if we do this.
I vote not to end the day until less than 4 hours remain. The more we discuss, the more bullshit we peddle, the more fluff we post, the more we have to look back retroactively. This is the only day we have 9 people present, so i vote not to rush it.

[Donempire]

No, town!ausuka is worrying about killing you, you flipping town, getting killed tomorrow and then flipping town. You treat this like ausuka is making a somehow dumb decision, but if ausuka is town she DOESNT KNOW if you are scum. It is reasonable to be suspicious of you but not want to lim you first without thinking about it, and that though process is not self contradictory. You treat it as if its a solid plan either way but the more likely possibility is we end up with two townies dead.
Regardless, i dont want to vote either of you. If you wanna keep this up, sure whatever, i dont think anything will come out of it

Removed the L word - Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

No, town!ausuka is worrying about killing you, you flipping town, getting killed tomorrow and then flipping town.

her emotional tone that she is projecting into the thread is sheer exasperation that Datisi could possibly townread me or think I am town.

it is disconnected to her feelings about my flip, which seem to hint that she knows I flip town here and she will be in the unenviable position of defending herself post-flip.

It isnt as unenviable as you make it out to be. As i said, if your lim goes through and she is scum, no way her partner lets her get limmed on a promise. In fact if shes town shes more likely to get limmed come the second day than if shes scum. What you are proposing isnt unique either, it is a iconic gamethrow to force a lim by volunteering to die first. It never goes well

Like town you can't actually genuinely believe that's a scumslip

Datisi are you seeing this shit

specifically this sequence of posts projects a feeling of "Ari is obviously scum !! how can you not see this Datisi?!?"

I dont think those posts mean what you think they mean. But i do think those posts reveal something else. I think you have a point in pressuring ausuka, but this isnt the way to do it.

Removed the L word - Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

can you stop using the L-word pls don

it is very hard to respond to you when you do

Well im not doing it on purpose if thats any consolation
Here you go:

No, town!ausuka is worrying about killing you, you flipping town, getting killed tomorrow and then flipping town.

her emotional tone that she is projecting into the thread is sheer exasperation that Datisi could possibly townread me or think I am town.

it is disconnected to her feelings about my flip, which seem to hint that she knows I flip town here and she will be in the unenviable position of defending herself post-flip.

It isnt as unenviable as you make it out to be. As i said, if your morb goes through and she is scum, no way her partner lets her get morbed on a promise. In fact if shes town shes more likely to get morbed come the second day than if shes scum. What you are proposing isnt unique either, it is a iconic gamethrow to force a morb by volunteering to die first. It never goes well

Like town you can't actually genuinely believe that's a scumslip

Datisi are you seeing this shit

specifically this sequence of posts projects a feeling of "Ari is obviously scum !! how can you not see this Datisi?!?"

I dont think those posts mean what you think they mean. But i do think those posts reveal something else. I think you have a point in pressuring ausuka, but this isnt the way to do it.

[Donempire]

It isnt as unenviable as you make it out to be. As i said, if your morb goes through and she is scum, no way her partner lets her get morbed on a promise. In fact if shes town shes more likely to get morbed come the second day than if shes scum. What you are proposing isnt unique either, it is a iconic gamethrow to force a morb by volunteering to die first. It never goes well

I don't really care if the town doesn't follow through on something it agrees to do.

Why even bother dying and putting us in a dilemma then

[Donempire]

Got confirmation from the mod. Daychats were enabled from the moment role pms were sent out, not from day start. I'll talk about it a bit more later, just thought i'd let you guys know rn

[Donempire]

i think this is if anything decent evidence they are *not* the scumteam

I also think that being comfortable talking to each other is not indicative of being a scumteam, however i dont think it excludes them from being scum together either. If anything its NAI. If i got paired with a friend in a scumteam i would be as buddy buddy with them as i always would, so this is not indicative of anything imo

[Donempire]

tyhis is verging into theory territory, but i disagree with this. in general i think with more experience a player becomes harder to elim (unless they have a very obvious meta). in a pl like this you can basically predict who the likely elims are regardless of alignment, certain people are just never going to get voted day 1 so the elim is likely to default to someone with less charisma. phoenix is clearly capable of puttin words together nicely but in a table where no one knows his meta he woulsd have been an easy push, imo

(of course, i am currently voting his replacement...)

I agree. The difference between an average player and a newbie would be unnoticable in a game where everyone is playing their part correctly, ala contributing actively regardless of alignment. In the case of an inactive game that forces a PL, then as you said a new player would be easier to off.

this also feels somewhat contrived and arbitrary honestly
with the caveat that i am not stating these are my reads, it is entirely possible for there to be games where active town goes in circles while scum lurks it out, especially when one of the active towns you mentioned is strongly suspecting the other
i'm not scumreading meg but i wouldn't clear them for being inactive...

I'm sorry, that is not possible. The active players are too competent to be circlejerking the entire day, with maybe ari as an exception since i dont know her. And one of them suspecting another means nothing, because i doubt the solve is in that 3 i mentioned, i am simply certain that at least 1 scum is in that group. And suspecting all of them doesnt mean i dont suspect the inactive players, though in this case you are right that i wont go for a morb on an inactive player today, i want to eliminate from the 3 i mentioned.

also the scamper scumcase when you can pls

I gave up on it.

why is that?

Like i said above, i want to at the very least clear my suspicions from the active players. And after reading your last few posts you seemed townier, maybe i'll get into it if i can find the time.

[Donempire]

this feels fairly random and now i'm wondering if you were looking for a way to ask about daychat to get townread.....

Well if it was no one townread me for that. But since you asked and i hadnt gotten to it yet, what does knowing when the daychat opened prove?

I'm going to do a lot of speculation in this post and say "i assume" a lot, so take what i say with a grain of salt. I dont know the setup, i can only speculate on it, and maybe make you guys think.

I very much doubted that scum!ausuka would make a miller claim without talking it through with her partner, which would have been not impossible but very hard if the daychat opened right after day started. However, if daychat opened

before

the game started, then they could have prepared a coherent plan beforehand. Normally if we knew the setup, this would end up being a nice thought experiment but nothing to write home about. All we know about the setup however is that it is a normal game.

In that case, i want to figure out if a miller claim is a net positive for the scum to claim. Miller by itself is already a safe claim, but you dont just claim a role for the shits of it as scum, that is unless you had some idea about the roles of the game. The way you can figure out the rolelist as scum is simple: 2 vanilla goons mean a single power role for town, and a weak one like escort. One powerrole and one goon means either a very strong pr for town like vigilante, or two powerroles. Two mafia powerroles mean two strong pr. This isnt %100, dicerolls can make it so that one side is more advantaged, but most of the time you can make an educated guess as scum on how the powerroles are distributed. Now, in what situation would claiming a miller make sense here?

Two mafia goons, and they know the powerrole of the town is most likely a weak powerrole, or a cop. In this case, claiming miller gives you some more leeway if the cop investigates you, because you can say you claimed miller beforehand. No downsides to this, so it is a net positive play.

If there are one powerrrole and one goon, then the pool of powerroles dont expand that much, only tracker would be a problem. However, if the goon claims mafia here and the powerrole does both their role and the killing, then not only would the miller claim waste trackers resources on themselves, but also, again, be a net positive claim in case of cops. Same case with two mafia powerroles, however in this case they do have to be carefull about tracker, it is still a net positive claim to make but not as outrageously easy as the other situations.

So we've established that claiming miller is always a positive play for scum in this setup. Now for the important part, how do we tell a genuine miller claim from a fakeclaim?
Sadly, this is about as far as we can go for certain without knowing the setup. I am even assuming a 2-7 town to scum distribution, that might not even be true, it might be 3-6. When we talk about figuring out setups a lot is going to be speculation, all i can do is assume something and hope its right, and even if it ends up not being right it might lead us to figuring out the setup for real.

However, i did find one post from ausuka strange, which is this one:

Like literally just ignore the miller claim unless you're a Rolecop that is all I am asking

Now, if you rolled miller, would your main concern be a cop, or a rolecop? Rolecop already gives miller result, so the only confusion would arise if a cop tried to investigate you.
Thats not all, however. Rolecop is predominantly a mafia role, though rarely it is aligned with town as well. So why would she concerned about a role that is not only rare, but also most of the time not even aligned with town?

I'm not saying this is anything concrete, it really isnt. But knowing that in every possible mafia combination a miller claim is a net positive, adding on top of that ausukas weird concern about rolecop above makes me at consider the miller claim always suspicious. And considering that mafia have a net positive play claiming that, being naturally suspicious of this claim is the only way to offset that imbalance.

[Donempire]

Now to prevent misunderstandings, i do realize i made a ton and ton of assumptions in the previous post. That post isnt a smoking gun against ausuka's claim. Not when we can even be sure of how many scum there are. I am sure in the coming days the rolelist will be cleared up and ausuka's claim can be analyzed then, but more importantly i think the discourse concerning ausukas claim has been directionless up until now. And with ausuka saying that claiming miller provided no bonus for her, i thought that should have been adressed. As for what to do with this information, the town powerroles should know better. Like i said the scum already have a general idea of the powerroles, so in the coming days you can maybe refer to this post and compare our chances and the possibility if and when counter claims arrive. As for the plebians, ausuka just mentioning rolecop should be a redflag, because that is not something that came to my mind for example when she mentioned miller.

[Donempire]

Also, one last thing before i wrap up, i

did

say what i was going to say would pertain to a datisi/ausuka team, but uhh it doesnt. But it shouldnt matter because after his last few posts i am more and more leaning town on datisi.
Sorry for the amount of broken promises this game, you'll have to cut me some slack.

[Donempire]

No downsides to this, so it is a net positive play.

downsides include that non cop investigative PRs can catch you out, there could be a real miller in the game, and the fact that if you claim miller as scum you are voluntarily subjecting yourself to miller speculation

I can adress all of these:
I already mentioned the tracker dilemma. Normal games allow the mafia powerrole to both use their power and kill at the same time. Only time this would be a problem is if scum rolled two powerroles. But then again, why am i explaining this when i already explained it? You mentioning investigative pr as if its some gotcha when i've already discussed them in my post makes me think you didnt read it and just got defensive as soon as i accused you.

In case there is a real miller in the game, you go back to the setup being a closed setup. Two millers isnt an impossibility, its quite possible in a 7 player town game.

And you have subjected yourself to lots of miller speculation, and seemingly just shrugged it off, making me believe that "subjecting yourself to miller speculation" isnt as catastrophic a thing as you make it out to be.

[Donempire]

I'm not talking about tracker

Rolecop catches me, if I'm a goon vanilla cop or simple or complex does too, there might be more I'm missing. More likely than not those roles do not exist but if they do they have a big incentive to target you. It's a needless risk.

Aha. That is what i'm talking about.
Cops will give a guilty result whether or not you are miller or scum, so if you were considering cops then you have to claim miller, because claiming it after the fact would make it seem like you made it up just then and reduce your credibility.
However, rolecops

always

say miller if you are miller, and vanilla if you are goon or vt. In this situation, a miller would never be concerned about a rolecop, because miller can trust the rolecop to get the correct role.

Basically, miller would be concerned about a cop investigation, while a mafia goon would be concerned about a rolecop investigation.

Do you understand why i thought that statement was suspicious now?

[Donempire]

I just explained how i came to that conclusion, but okay.

[Donempire]

Dont see what arguing about this is going to achieve

[Donempire]

If you're drawing conclusions from unsupported assumptions, then those conclusions are unlikely to be meaningful. It benefits town if people in this game are rational and draw rational conclusions. The only way it wouldn't achieve anything is if you are convinced that your mind won't change.

Actually, I don't know why you wouldn't want to change my mind here, if you're so confident that you have the correct view of things? Isn't that something to achieve?

I am convinced that i am right, but when it comes to discussing stuff like "she did x because y" (in this context she thought of rolecop first because shes more likely to be scum), i believe its always going to be futile because whatever i say ausuka would respond with "that wasnt my intention". And i would have no way to disprove that, because we are discussing intentions here instead of something more concrete, like a roleclaim with a known setup. Besides, i am not entirely convinced myself if that is the case, that ausuka thought of rolecop first because shes scum. The best i can say is its more likely than not, and thats about it.

[Donempire]

ok i read about 1/10th of posts and i scrolled through ari's isp a bit and i wanna say this is very likely town!ari bc i really don't think scum!ari loses her nerves like this

i see galron hasn't done shit since i was last here so how many votes is he on? i wanna vote him but don't wanna lolhammer

pls link me if i need to respond to anything

Can you tell me why she doesnt tilt as scum? Can you link a scum game with a similar circumstance if you can?

[Donempire]

I might have an idea on why she would get angry about this situation. And i dont think her anger is faked. I just woke up so i wont post until i'm free, but i think we might just about wrap the day up here.

[Donempire]

zamn

[Donempire]

ok i read about 1/10th of posts and i scrolled through ari's isp a bit and i wanna say this is very likely town!ari bc i really don't think scum!ari loses her nerves like this

i see galron hasn't done shit since i was last here so how many votes is he on? i wanna vote him but don't wanna lolhammer

pls link me if i need to respond to anything

Can you tell me why she doesnt tilt as scum? Can you link a scum game with a similar circumstance if you can?

also, this is what i mean with don

posts like this feel like theyre trying to undermine the possibility of people clearing ari for tilt when that was a view that was starting to get vocalized, like he doesnt want a potential miselim to slip away

I was going to make a case on ari, i dont think her rage is faked but i was going to prove how it could have been coming from scum. She replaced now so not anymore ig
As for the question itself, it was genuine. Its not that i want potential miselims, rather i dont want to ignore someone i think is suspicious, especially someone most people rushed to clear

[Donempire]

Or i will just make a short anectode showing why she can both be genuine in her anger and still be scum.

Back when i was still inexperienced i rolled scum in a newbie game. It was going very well and i was universally townread. I was also doing jackshit to help town, so win win for me. Then someone started tunneling on me for reasons i thought were complete bullshit (didnt recheck it to see if it was, i just remember being pissed about it). And he just would not let go of his tunnel on me. At that time, i was furious not just because he was right on me being scum, but because his argument made no sense and he just got a lucky guess. So we went on a tirade that was very childish of me but was still genuine, and i came out of it being townread even more. The reason was everyone thought my anger was genuine, which it was, so it made me town.

When you overlay my example with her case, it fits somewhat. Shes getting pissed because someone she views as coasting through the day without giving any effort now finds her suspicious. Shes getting angry at being scumread, but moreso by being scumread specifically by meg. I think scum!ari would believe meg doesnt deserve to have the correct read, just like i thought in my game.

I will not lim aris replacement today, and my read wont carry over to her replacement. I wanted to point this out for anyone tring her for this reason.

Removed the L word -Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

Done what was the wrap up the day thing about

Ari

[Donempire]

ok if i'm worjignf rom aei/ausuko being t/t

scamper maybe prob town for not inflating that fight and townreading both of them

meg can maybe be scum for around 437 but i'll decide later propelrly

we lim ausuka

Removed the L word - Irrelephant11

[Donempire]

also auska is town so try again

No

[Donempire]

I felt like meg was towny but idk how to justify it

Maybe I just felt Ari was making a nonsense push and it felt like meg was the one to really understand that to me

Although other people said they were townreading me so maybe that isn't totally fair I don't know

Pedit: do you fuck

Ye it was a bad push. I didnt say anything for a while cause i thought she was baiting for a reaction

[Donempire]

Fight me Done I'll bury you under this mill

Sure, how do you wanna fight?
Bo3 chess sound good to you

[Donempire]

also auska is town so try again

No

why

Poe from you ari ausuka

[Donempire]

Done your claim theory is shitttt

Like it's atrocious

If you're town you need to like take a deep deep hard look on how the hell you got to the point where it's nearing the end of the day and your main push is based on a miller claim

Maybe I wouldn't say this if I say fully awake but whatever

Im not voting you for your miller claim

[Donempire]

VOTE: ausuka

[Donempire]

OK yeah that was rude sorry

I vehemently disagree with your arguments

I really don't know what you've been talking about with Ari and why you said that post would end the day

I still think we lim galron here and he's probably wanting us all to get distracted if I had to guess

Its fine

I was going to make a case on ari, and i didnt since she ended up replacing out. My anectode was just to stop the in my eyes undeserved townreads she got. So its not a case by itself.
And yes im pissed im not getting to morb my actual scumread so im going to have to deathtunnel you. Im sorry im not morbing outside the three i mentioned

[Donempire]

Oh come on

You were asked to explain why I'm scum and went on a ted talk about millers

The read is based on a miller claim

It isnt

How can you say my read isnt based on something else, do you read minds? I just havent gotten around to making a case, and wont

[Donempire]

also auska is town so try again

No

why

Poe from you ari ausuka

?????????????????????????????????????????????????

pleasE tell me your poe is more than "these three people are active and therefore ????????? therefore one of them is scum"

My poe reasoning isnt that xd?
I'll wait until you quote my original post or reread it bro

[Donempire]

OK yeah that was rude sorry

I vehemently disagree with your arguments

I really don't know what you've been talking about with Ari and why you said that post would end the day

I still think we lim galron here and he's probably wanting us all to get distracted if I had to guess

Its fine

I was going to make a case on ari, and i didnt since she ended up replacing out. My anectode was just to stop the in my eyes undeserved townreads she got. So its not a case by itself.
And yes im pissed im not getting to morb my actual scumread so im going to have to deathtunnel you. Im sorry im not morbing outside the three i mentioned

Remind me who the one you wabted to kill originally was and why
thx

Ari

[Donempire]

either link it or i'm gonna keep believeng im right

ok

[Donempire]

I think your active players theory is also just completely wrong

Like I would argue against it but having read that post I'm not really sure what I'm meant to be arguing against? Like I just don't understand the point you were trying to make

Pedit: Are you saying that you lied when you were talking about how the miller claim was so suspicious when explaining your read on me? Like that is the only explanation for what you're saying here

I'll humor you, but wont answer self evident questions anymore

Miller claim analysis was a mechanical analysis to find out if claiming miller was a net positive for scum!ausuka to make in any situation
Since we figured out its a net positive every time that means your miller claim should be taken with a grain of salt. In my post i said something like "should be scumleaning on that claim just to offset the benefit scum you would get from claiming it". It is not a basis for scumreading you as a whole.
It is not my reason for sring you. Stop saying that

[Donempire]

Ok reading Done's post again I feel like the only point I can get out of it is

The gamestate is stagnant so the people who are posting and trying to change that are wolves

How is this reading incorrect because that's all I can get out of it

Gamestate is stagnant despite being a lot of posts therefore at least one of the active players are helping stagnate discussion

[Donempire]

Like if you think the gamestate is stagnant and people aren't doing shit and that's because wolves want it that way

Wouldn't you suspect wolves are maybe just maybe the people not doing shit?????

Like idk dude maybe I'm an idiot but that's what I would think

No, if the wolves were two inactives like meg and phoenix for example then the 3 active players would be trying their hardest to solve the game, and therefore discussion would be moving at a steady pace.
Thanks for this question though, i think this means ari is more likely to be town. You seem to exist just to sidetrack questions, she was engaged in something all the time of her own volition. Maybe it was a good thing i gave up on wagonig her.

[Donempire]

you're just wrong here, i'm sorry

you can ague that in a generalized case tilt is not always scum-indicative but in particular the way ari went off is just not scum-indicative, because in between the insults she was making criticism of megs logic that were basically entirely valid

in fact this is pretty lazy shorthand to just go anger=scum

Xd
Just wagon ausuka, not gonna bother with posting after this comment

[Donempire]

Ok so like

You say I'm scum, with dstisi

Scamper pressures you on why this is

You talk about why the miller claim is suspicious? And now you're apparently deathtunneling me

If I'm wrong about the miller claim being the reasoning, why is it because that's all I have to work with

Pedit: okay except like, if you read my posts I was very much not acting to stagnate discussion, I was pushing phoenix galron slot and I really don't feel like dstisi was either so like I don't get why you're being so rigid about this

Like. At the time you were saying this I am pretty sure Aristeia was directing the discussion to how good she is at catching scum. If you want a culprit to pin that on read the actual posts instead of generalizing and it's there. Except like, we've already discussed this and I voiced my suspicion of this exact thing. And came to the conclusion it could be town Ari doing that because Datisi said it's within her town meta.

Like I don't understand why you're not looking at the actual posts here

I'm sorry, you're right i've only given you the miller reasoning. I'll do a case tomorrow

[Donempire]

Ari vs meg is tvt
Solve should be in {Ausuka, Galron, GE, Xayah, Coral} in descending order of suspicion

[Donempire]

Thank you Dstisi

Spoiler:

is this an actual spoiler, this looks like a your turn to die photo
if it is i will rub my mind of this image

[Donempire]

Dont worry its fine, i am a master at forgetting things ever since i had to forget everything i learned in high school literature

[Donempire]

meg v scamper seems to like leak heavily into playstyle issues. i think i get the vibes they genuinely believe what they're saying and are frustrated at the other which is probably+town for both, I was townreading meg anyway

this is probably more likely to be town scamper on balance, they're a difficult read but them getting scrappy seems like it would be more likely to be town them Vs them putting on a clean performance for the town, if that makes sense

To add to this, both of their pushes are logical. Scamper has been incredibly vague in his postings ever since the game began, and mostly comes onto the thread to throw shade at a few people he scumreads. Shading and being vague help scum inadverdently, since it keeps things murky.

Vice versa, meg doesnt seem to follow through on any cases he makes, which you can also construe as helping scum.

Their pushes arent illogical, but i do think they are surface value. Scamper does throw shade and is vague, but that is because of uncertainty in his reads that only town would have. Yes, he doesnt push anyone as hard as we might like him to but thats because he is prodding to figure out everyone, rather than hoping for a easy death note target. Comes back to your point about this being a discussion about playstyles rather than alignment. So even if scamper might seem like hes trying to avoid responsibility, his posts have been inquisitive in nature.

Meg is in a similar situation to scamper. They dont push anyone especially hard, and are more focused on not letting tiny details get by. You can see it in his back and forth with ari, while everyone was keen to just townread her and move on meg was still prodding her in order to find information even though she was pretty volatile at the time, which i dont see scum subjecting themselves to that for no reason.

Both of them are most likely town, not in spite of their pushes on each other but because of it. They are misconstruing game advancing moves as scummy because it doesnt mesh with their respective playstyle.

[Donempire]

don answe my quesiton plese

what question

[Donempire]

Also also, my last few posts specifically the ones calling for ausukas head were emotional votes, since i got pretty pissed i didnt get to make a case on ari after she replaced out, so heres my proposition.
I am still super suspicious of gammas slot, and i believe in my theory of one scum in {dat, ausuka, ari} but, since gamma hasnt given me enough content to read him by i will postpone this theory until at least the next day so i can make a concrete read on his slot, and maybe expand on it by including my ari read.
For today, i want to propose that we wagon galron and force a claim out of him. I said i dont want to lim in the above 3, i dont propose myself, i townread meg and scamper, so that leaves three, {galron, xayah, coral}
Of the three, from what i remember the one i found most fishy is galron. I think both xayah and coral had redeeming factors, probably xayah is more townier than coral, but i dont want to say anything before i iso them, which i will do right now.
So, i wanna ask you what are your reads on these 3 slots i mentioned, do you have anything you wanna add?

Removed the L word - Irrelephant

[Donempire]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

[Donempire]

I equally feel that the point about active players or whatever is a misdirection

I already had this discussion with datisi earlier - I said I thought Ari was scum because she dragged the thread in a stagnant direction by pushing the comparison of her play to Xayah's. Datisi agreed this was not productive but said that with knowledge of Ari this is something she could do as town. Like, as far as I'm concerned this is based on a discussion that was already resolved. I think if you look at my posts and Datisi's it is hard to argue we haven't been trying to drag the game forward. If I had it my way we would've been pushing galron to e 1 from the start.

Pedit: I think it's the third actually

Yup, its the third

yeah, i just realized he also said he was gonna make a case on you too lol

i am uh. not sure where "if the active people didn't have scum in it, this game would've been moving forward" because WHAT are we supposed to do? say we're all town, galron is scum, and we think galron is scum. he's not here. we can chat about other slots, but we simply cannot move forward until he appears. how is that our fault?

You know that i'm not talking about what you are doing right now, right? Back when the game had 200 posts there was nothing being done, the players who were engaging the conversation the most were guys like scamper who were going in and out. Now if you asked me back then, i would have pinned all 3 of you as scum. Now that i realize the game was going slow because we fucked up going out of RVS somehow, and because i townlean both you and ausuka, that theory dimmed out a little, but i still believe there was a saboteur who was making leaving RVS harder than it should have been, and it would make sense it was one of the active players, ala Ari in this instance.

[Donempire]

done, is there a reason why you seem chronically avoiding my 653?

Yes

[Donempire]

Done I'm not sure why it doesn't give you pause that the people who know Ari the best say she wouldn't behave that way

Like I was suspicious of her too but like I think it's fairly clear some people have deeper knowledge of her play than others? Idk

It does give me a pause, but i am skeptical of meta reads, because theres nothing that says meta is concrete, maybe she decided to change it for this game, even if it didnt maybe she was pissed of because of something outside of the game, basically something happened that made her go outside her meta. Why should i trust someone who i dont know the alignment of to determine my read on someone i think was extremely suspicious the whole game, because they are saying that this is par for the course for her. That is what is wrong with meta reading, even if she consistently gets pissed in town games and keeps her cool in scum games, why would this game not be an outlier?

Because in general outliers are much rarer than non outliers? Nothing is impossible but this is a game of probability

At the very least I think it shows her behaviour isn't actively scum indicative

I guess. I'll think about it

[Donempire]

also this hell of a hangover is making me not wanna read the scamper/meg fight so let me know if there's anything important in there

or don't, idc

It's concerning ari, meg was pushing ari because her push on ausuka made no sense, scamper was defending ari albeit a bit too aggressively. If you want to trust me, its a playstyle argument that doesnt really go anywhere, but you should read especially megs portion because i agree with him on most points regarding ari.

[Donempire]

Also was your push on me just the miller claim and the Poe or is there something else? I'm sort of confused by you saying you townread me, I thought you were the most enthusiastic captain of HMS Lim Ausuka

My push on you was me waking up passed out from the heat, seeing ari fuck up in her push even further, being enthusiasthic to push her then seeing she replaced out and getting pissed and looking for the next target to deathtunnel to keep myself invested in the game. Not sure what you're going to figure out by knowing it was an emotional push, but yeah

[Donempire]

So you can say it was the miller claim

[Donempire]

im surprised

[Donempire]

What does tmi mean

[Donempire]

Yeah, i see what you mean. Assuming hes scum, he pointed out something he knew (which was xayah and you both being town), pointed out your argument was tvt and then made the case from there, backwards thinking compared to town.
Now that i am isoing him, this is a recurring theme as well. Whatever he says he sounds like he doesnt believe in it, instead of trying to figure out something his primary concern seems to be convincing us. Take a look at this post as well:

Remember how i said we needed someone on L-1? The one being wagoned is a factor in contributing to discussion, but so is everyone else on the wagon. Once the wagon disperses, there will be many posts to retroactively read , at least 4 vote posts for example. That way with a simple shitwagon in rvs you end up forcing 5 people to participate! You end up with someone who is a hard read by most of the town, lots of posts to investigate, maybe a claim.
Now that i said this, lolwagoning scamper probably wont have the same effect. But i can still make a solid case against scamper, and you can read my case, agree with me and bandwagon scamper. We receive the benefits i mentioned without any drawbacks!
So, i havent made my case yet, and i wont until i wake up, but the sooner everyone wagons scamper, the faster this game will run

You want an e-1 wagon on scamper because you want to analyze the wagon even though you can make a case? That doesn't sound pro town.

"That doesnt sound pro town" without explaining what makes it scummy, without questioning why i would do this as scum or town, just throwing out a read that SEEMS logical, but is very shallow and doesnt lead anywhere in figuring me out.

[Donempire]

There's more

I mean, even if you think it's anti town does that make Done mafia?

Not necessarily but it's worth finding out isn't it?

I thought this post was off, and i realize why now. If you want to find out if i am scum or not, would your first course of action be voting me off? I'm saying this because he provided no alternative in his previous post, just said i was not acting pro towny and then voted me. If he really wanted to find out, he could question why i was wanting for a l-1 wagon, hell he could have isoed my other posts to see if this was consistent, if my other posts had anything else off. But he just wants to wagon me on one post that he finds not pro town.

I mean donempire wants an e-1 wagon and hasn't a reason for it other than to have it and review it. He doesn't even say it's for pressure. I think there'san actual reason to push here. I'd rather see an organic wagon.

This also is weird. Especially the last sentence with him asying he wants an organic wagon makes it look like he wants to be

seen

townie, because a pressure wagon would still be organic, this post makes me believe he wants to stymie discussion.

[Donempire]

Uhh so i was going to keep making a case but thats it lol. He has no more posts i can analyze after this. i guess i'll make a makeshift vc in the meantime

[Donempire]

UNOfficial Vote Count 1.00

Elimination

With 9 votes in play, it takes 5 to accept their audition for the MCU.

Ausuka

(1): Donempire

Galron

(4): Aristeia, Ausuka, Datisi, Megazuril

E-1

Datisi

(1): xayah

Donempire

(1): Galron

Xayah

(1): Coral

Not Voting

(1): Scamper

Deadline:

(expired on 2022-08-05 07:46:36).

Player notes:

Hate this dogshit season

[Donempire]

Intent to hammer galron

[Donempire]

lowkey wondering if he's scum trueclaiming his role

Yes, this is also a possibility. Scum also roll rolecop more often than town. I believe the claim, just not the alignment.

[Donempire]

Ari vs meg is tvt
Solve should be in {Ausuka, Galron, GE, Xayah, Coral} in descending order of suspicion

Re-read mod ISO lol

what are you saying

[Donempire]

Fair enough, i'll hammer after everyones checked

[Donempire]

Ari and I are the same slot
But having read more I think you meant Meg v Scamper

Yes i meant meg and scamper, my mind went to ari since that was who they were arguing over

[Donempire]

Hes joking
Check posts 187 and 186

[Donempire]

cool

[Donempire]

im just hammering 3 hours from now

[Donempire]

Are you just going to do this until the day ends

[Donempire]

Are you just going to do this until the day ends

who me? Not entirely, my initial goal was to get to like page 16
btw I asked you a question earlier

Okay
Yeah i saw, i'd rather answer all your questions at once because it gets tiring responding to one question and then responding to something different. I'd rather you made a coherent single case, but if you're adamant, i'll humor you ig. I'm just not interested in responding to everything you ask me if i think its not relevant to advancing the game

[Donempire]

VOTE: Galron
not hammer, e-1

[Donempire]

Spoiler: @Donempire

meg is still townie. the wiki link was funny but i also find it townie. it doesn't win favours it doesn't "look" townie but it's showing a thought process.

ari is also lowkey townie. the agruing with xayah doesn't do much for her position in game which like. idk why scum!her would care kinda. yes this is directly going against what i said earlier about their convo, fight me

every other slot feels muddy

ama

Interesting, i think he's town as well. The content of his posts arent what convinces me, but rather i think the scum have a stranglehold on the conversation and someone as inactive as him wouldnt be able to manipulate the discourse as much as it has been manipulated. The days are going agonizingly slowly and nothings getting done, even though there have been many opportunities for cross examination and wagons.

Which brings me to the point that of the 3 most active users, meaning ari, you and ausuka, one of you is almost certainly scum. The reason i didnt include xayah is she seems to distanced from the general discourse and seems to be doing her own thing.

who is "he"?

Meg

[Donempire]

Spoiler: For Scamper

I am going to ignore you for the time being. Perhaps we can continue this delightful discussion later!

>:/
Meg did this shit twice now, with Ari and with scamper

Meh, i dont think its scum indicative. Scamper was calling him obtuse, gross, disgusting etc. I'd rather have less discussion than have a unneccesary spat because of a game.

[Donempire]

Im fine with hammer now

[Donempire]

DOC ME I CARRY

[Donempire]

Well played everyone, thank you for the game rele