Newbie 2099 | GTA San Andreas | Endgame

[humaneatingmonkey]

Vote Count 2.04

————

Cat.Jpeg (3):

BlueBloodedToffee, FancyPants, Juice

Bulbazoor (1):

Spartan117

BlueBloodedToffee (1):

Cat.Jpeg

Not Voting (3):

flowerdogs, Rad, Bulbazoor

With 8 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is August 23 at 01:20 AM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-23 01:20:00)

[Rad]

Juice - is cat the compromise vote to vote with your town block? Cause I feel like you should be voting bbt here, and I'd consider doing that with you, but fp hard vetoes it and all of us have cat as top pick. Is that your thinking?

[Bulbazoor]

The most annoying thing is I did answer his question.

Clearly not to his satisfaction. I think a scum!Bulba is probably less openly annoyed here and more just figuring out why Spartan's not satisfied with his answer, cause what heat does scum!Bulba have this game beyond Spartan's tunneling here?

this is how i'm also reading bulb's reaction to spartan's case! what are your current feelings on spartan? i can see it as town tunneling on town; if there is one mafia i think spartan comes off a little scummier?

At this point flower is still tring me. Why did you back down from saying spartan comes off scummier? All he did was get pissed I didn't answer a question in a way he liked.

omg also I just saw Cat is on E-1 (thanks to... Rad) -- please don't hammer!! now that my slot is active it would be nice to get some more interactions, i think that would be helpful for town. i was on pg27 while finishing typing up my wall

Flower knows my weakness. This post reads tonally town to me. It is protown unless cat is wolf but even then I really like this post for some reason.

my Rad ISO journey {

Rad townlean

}

I was suspicious of Rad (as gestured to in my Post 683 ) because their voting seemed so volatile (not that this is necessarily AI – but, for instance, on end of day one, it felt like Rad, as the second vote on Goldfish & asking Juice to vote as well, was the one who really got the Goldfish wagon going --> a flurry of votes, Goldfish gets to E-1 --> Rad jumps off wagon to vote Elemk (though, true, affirming he would be happy to hammer Goldfish later) which felt, as my initial impression, like it could be an attempt to distance from a wagon that w!Rad had precipitated but knew would flip town. Fancy has pointed out this vote movement by Rad; BBT has questioned Rad’s votes based on Spartan’s read around Post 590 .)

rereading & reevaluation I’m moving Rad to my townleans. I can follow their thought processes today very well & it feels genuine. start of day, Rad seconds Fancy’s suspicions on Cat & my slot at the beginning of today (lurk theory); Rad’s scumread on Cat then diminishes as Cat appears & interacts & also as Juice, Rad’s townread, xemself townreads Cat strongly; Rad votes BBT then settles on Bulb based on Spartan’s theory of at least one wolf on town-Cat wagon; Rad then reevaluates Cat as he decides (I agree) that Spartan’s case on Bulb could likely be TvT – presumably, Rad now townreads Bulb strongly enough he is willing to go against Juice’s townread on Cat; Rad votes Cat again. I see a lot of openness / reevaluation / but also consistency / & attempts to work with people Rad townreads.

it is very alarming that my PoE is only one person now – Cat. & my nulls still just two people – Bulb (still yet to ISO, I really want to re-check how Bulb did on day one) & Spartan. compared to my experience spectating mafia games (usually 15 player setups) i'm finding it noticeably harder to make scumreads!! but I'm not sure what that says about the gamestate & the kinds of wolves in the game?

I’m actually still undecided on Cat or Bulb – I do think Cat’s Post 642 reads very scummy but Cat’s other posts, especially their latest posts read as genuine & frustrated town. I know the reasons Juice strongly townreads Cat & will consider that seriously. I’m curious about Spartan as an option, I’m open to it but I think the threadstate is pointing to Cat or Bulb today. still looking forward to Fancy reappearing (I think he said he would be busy until Friday which is today?) & seeing where his head is at; also want to engage more with BBT

I am going to have to look at cat's latest posts because you do mention them a lot. However, on your last post involving cat I analyzed, I only agreed that one post sounded "towny".

[FancyPants]

Juice - is cat the compromise vote to vote with your town block? Cause I feel like you should be voting bbt here, and I'd consider doing that with you, but fp hard vetoes it and all of us have cat as top pick. Is that your thinking?

Hey Rad!

Convince me BBT is scum?

Like. I can be wrong. (not often but it happens once in a blue moon).

I'm not seeing the BBT case, it's possible I missed that post?

[Rad]

Yo fancy. I don't hard read BBT scum here. I have mentioned why I have problems with the slot though. From a meta perspective I actually read him town here.

[FancyPants]

Also vote Rad WTF.

You not voting is so scummy.

You're someone whose played a decent amount of mafia.
You have two suspects, and you're not voting either,


My thoughts now are that you don't want to commit to your scum buddy Cat and are hoping that the bulba or BBT wagons will take off.

You're fence sitting to save your partner and don't want to commit either way.

Convince me otherwise please.

[FancyPants]

I'm not at all convinced you're scum Rad but I'd like you to commit one way or the other.

[Bulbazoor]

i will wait for Bulb to give a read on me before i post my current thoughts on Bulb; i did do more rereading -- i want to know what he thinks of my slot now that it's active though.

in the meantime, here are some things i did notice while rereading Bulb & Bulb-adjacent posts.

1.) i had somehow forgotten that Spartan has been putting suspicion on Bulb since day one (though still townreading him on day one)

2.) in my 685 i said that Spartan comes out scummier in his most current exchange with Bulb.

in response to my 685 Rad (i wasn’t reading it like this at the time but) basically defends Spartan? i do still townlean Rad much more than before my ISO but – looking through my notes, it is very noticeable that Rad and Spartan have never scumread or pressured each other during this game / have frequently backed each other up. a few examples (i’m getting really tired from reading & writing & will take a longer break) – 145 Rad dislikes my slot for pair-hunting --> 191 Spartan agrees with Rad. 218 Rad defends Spartan from Fancy’s pressuring. again this 584 --> 590 interaction between Spartan and Rad that pings me a lot. like i said i’m getting tired / lazy but would like others to weigh in on the dynamic between the two if anyone is interested? i know they know each other & may have some meta read; i also think a w/w between them would be too obvious. it would be very helpful if i could townread both of them.

@Rad – how sure are you that Spartan is town? in 687, the Spartan emotion tell is one that i think i had already mentioned in my 683 wall.
@Juice – what is your read on Rad right now? i know Spartan is in your PoE.

3.)

Frankly if it's neither Cat or Goldfish scum deserve the win for being that sneaky,

umm the more i think about this quote the more i dislike it? it doesn't really match up with my image of Fancy as intense, excited detective this game & it almost feels like it's setting up for Cat flipping town

I actually did not dislike that post from FP. I was thinking the same thing as him. Goldfish played very scumlike. And cat was not doing much better at that point. And I tend to TR people who agree with me.

Something interesting is your comments about Spartan and Rad. Nobody even sees them as a wolf pair, so why do you think it would be too obvious of a pairing? I actually think that pairing would make sense considering everything that happened today.

hi i will also give my two nominations by the end of today (i'm in eastern u.s. time)!

i will just give an update on where i'm at right now because my reads have been changing --

1.) i think Cat is probably town (my initial read on the slot was colored a lot by BBT's sun on Cat & i townread BBT). i think their responses to being put under increasing pressure have been good. i very quickly looked at a few of their past town games (including their most recent one, where they were voted off as town on day one) & have found Cat's tone / investment / responses to being sussed in our game more or less consistent with t!Cat. that said i have not found any w!Cat games so idk. (@Fancy / anyone -- if you have time i'm curious what you think? I think at least one of the Goldfish games you (Fancy) looked at on day one had Cat in it too.) i'm not in love with the idea of using the early Goldfish meta scumread on Cat (today brought up by both Fancy & Rad i think?) because it was never explained &, actually, the last post Goldfish made was a scumread on the Elemk-BBT slot.

as for that BBT/Cat interaction today (my initial reason for scumreading Cat) -- tbh i don't know how to read it. these long disagreements of people misrepresenting each other / not responding to questions (Fancy/Juice day one, BBT/Juice day two, BBT/Cat day two, Sparta/Bulb day two)... i realize i tend to read all of them as TvT. (@BBT -- why did you read Juice as town & Cat as scum today when, to me, from the outside, your disagreements with both of them feel the same.) i also don't think w!Cat puts themself on the line to defend t!Juice so intensely; if Juice is town & so widely townread, it's surely in the best interest for wolves to make Juice seem suspicious for end of day one.

// oh Cat just posted twice, will respond, & afterwards continue with the pt 2.) of this post

I don't think it is smart to go off of this very limited meta. I did that day one when I voted goldfish off and look what happened.

2.) i was still waiting for Bulb's new reads but yeah basically i think he comes out of the interaction with Spartan today... just very town. it's a slight townlean because i was also looking very quickly through Bulb's past games (though almost all are from many years ago?) &, in a game where Bulb was mafia, he reacted to being pushed in a way that wasn't... very different. also a lot of annoyance / conviction, so i can see the disappointment about Goldfish flipping town / the frustration with Spartan's case being faked.

in other words i agree with this --

Bulba just feels like frustrated town in all these interactions but I don't think that would be particularly hard to manufacture. I'd like to see some real reads and analysis so I could judge something less abstract than tone. I also don't love that he needs to be prompted to give content.

3.) so... partly as a result / & realizing my read on BBT is now relatively stale / reevaluating the BBT & Cat interaction, i want to do some rereading & get a better grasp of BBT's play this game. i also want to reread Elemk-related stuff from day one because i... kind of glazed over those interactions knowing Elemk would be subbed out. to be transparent, if i had to nominate two people right now, it would be 1.) BBT, 2.) Bulb.

Here is where I am confused. You say you think I come off as very town yet you want me out of the game. Why? Also, what scumgame did you look at? Can you link it here so everyone can reference it? I am not sure what to make of you calling me towny and then saying you want me gone. You might just be newbie town.

[Rad]

Fancy chill please. I got off cat so flower could catch up and then we started doing this nomination thing. I'm trying to hear out juice's plan here. I'm fully willing and ready to jump back on cat wagon shortly. You know I'm not one to be afraid to vote so back off for a bit.

[FancyPants]

Fancy chill please. I got off cat so flower could catch up and then we started doing this nomination thing. I'm trying to hear out juice's plan here. I'm fully willing and ready to jump back on cat wagon shortly. You know I'm not one to be afraid to vote so back off for a bit.

Aight fair.

[flowerdogs]

i'm feeling quite lost -- does anyone want to help me out...

for the record I'm fine with voting BBT today

when i came to the point in my reads where i had Bulb & BBT in my PoE i felt like i had a good grasp on the game & now i don't at all!! i like Bulb's responses to my posts. two of my top town reads townread him (Fancy & now, post-gambit, Juice). no one else has had a similarly positive reaction to Cat's posts today (day two). my PoE right now is just BBT which makes me pretty bad &, since i don't really have any scumreads & just PoE to work with, that makes me feel pretty bad!

[Rad]

You're fence sitting to save your partner and don't want to commit either way.

I was the first on cats wagon today so unless you believe that's a sick scum play to immediately bus my partner, this thought makes no sense

Vote Count 2.01

————

Cat.Jpeg (3):

Rad, BlueBloodedToffee, Bulbazoor

BlueBloodedToffee (1):

Juice

Not Voting (4):

Cat.Jpeg, AlwaysNever, Spartan117, FancyPants

With 8 alive, it's 5 to eliminate.

Deadline for Day 2 is August 23 at 01:20 AM GMT +8

Deadline Timer:

(expired on 2022-08-23 01:20:00)

Fear not, I'll be back on it shortly.

[flowerdogs]

*just BBT which makes me feel pretty bad

[FancyPants]

Flowers though. Why no vote, Juice has you as a bulba/BBTW voter why aren't you voting them?

Edit: thanks to post review.

Brah, 30 pages and no scum suspects?

[Juice]

Juice - is cat the compromise vote to vote with your town block? Cause I feel like you should be voting bbt here, and I'd consider doing that with you, but fp hard vetoes it and all of us have cat as top pick. Is that your thinking?

BBT can die tomorrow - and he has to die tomorrow

[flowerdogs]

Something interesting is your comments about Spartan and Rad. Nobody even sees them as a wolf pair, so why do you think it would be too obvious of a pairing? I actually think that pairing would make sense considering everything that happened today.

i think i mentioned them during some of my first posts, but the Rad pings were some of my only scum-read-related feelings but no one really interacted with them so i dropped this direction. very early on i wanted to push both Cat & Rad who hadn't been getting too much attention at the point but Rad didn't really engage with my sus in a way that wasn't like scummy & i ended up town-leaning Rad

[flowerdogs]

VOTE: BBT

(@Fancy)

[Rad]

VOTE: cat

E-1

[Bulbazoor]

Juice: Bulba / BBT
Spartan: Bulba/ BBT
Bulba: Cat/AlwaysNever
Cat: Bulba/BBT

No Nominations:
BBT
FP
Rad
Flower

update --
Spartan: Bulba/ BBT
Bulba: Cat/AlwaysNever
Cat: Bulba/BBT
Flower: BBT/Bulb

No Nominations:
BBT
FP
Rad

--> striking (partly because of inactivities) that Cat was E-1 & now has only one nomination / idk how to interpret that

I am going to give you a chance to elaborate on your nominations. Why me and BBT? It is weird to me how you said spartan was scummier than me up to this point then you sheep his exact nominations.

VOTE: cat

My reads boil down to strong trs on Juice and Fancy. I don't see myself ever fosing Juice tbh. And then that leaves you, Rad, who I have a weaker tr on. Then, BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot. That leaves Cat, AlwaysNever, and Spartan.

And I can sense scum thinks I am somehow an easy lynch today. I see what you are doing BBT. People just can't see that I am disappointed I was wrong and thus have less motivation to try as much.

@Bulb, as you do your reread! -- just to clarify, did your read on BBT shift between these two posts? when you say "I see what you are doing BBT" what did you mean? between the two posts there was the BBT-Cat interaction -- did you have a read on that.

I am going to be honest: I did not read that interaction. I felt like BBT was trying to take advantage of the fact that I was dejected from the Goldfish flip. And in a way, I was right, but BBT is not the one doing that as I thought he was going to. My read on BBT is null atm. I have to reread his ISO. "I see what you are doing BBT" is my attempt to bring attention to him and make people question him. I am also just kinda passive aggressive and throw digs at anyone who scumreads me when I am town. As I did with spartan today as well in another post ("I will not let you get away with this spartan" or something like that).

Juice: Bulba / BBT
Spartan: Bulba/ BBT
Bulba: Cat/AlwaysNever
Cat: Bulba/BBT
FP: Cat/Spartan
Flower: Bulba/BBT

BBT
Rad

Bulba has 4
BBT has 4
Cat has 2

at this point it really looks like we are going Bulba or BBT - dependeing on what Rad says

See the thing here now is it gives the remaining 2 a chance to influence things as they have seen everyone else's votes, I get that there wasn't really a way for us to do it all at the same time. Lets say at the end we have a draw of 5/5 what would you say our next move is then Juice?

i'm not sure if we have been ordering / or if Juice's post preserves all of our #1 or #2 nominations for scum -- that should matter?

i understand the worry that BBT & Rad would have a lot of deciding-power now, especially between Bulb & BBT. & which one we vote out obviously would matter because i don't think anyone has been saying those are simply the two wolves

Do you personally scumread me or BBT? It doesn't seem like you have many reasons yourself.

i don't think anyone has been saying those are simply the two wolves

If I haven't explicitly been saying it yet, I've certainly been thinking it, the way bulba scum reads Elemk to then having BBT ease his sus on the slot with no real explanation as to how that process happened. Also I believe there was an example of what looks like BBT diverting attention /easing the pressure off Bulba but I can't exactly remember the situation so I would need to go back and try and find that.

when you refer to BBT diverting attention from Bulb -- maybe you mean the series of posts that starts around 563 when Bulb flips his vote from my slot to Cat? which you question. & then Cat & BBT post & BBT claims that Cat has misrepresented him? i can see this as diversion;

i have been been starting to consider about the possibility of Bulb/BBT both being wolves this irl day & this was a spot i noticed as well. in part / trying to understand this better is why i asked Bulb the following question:

VOTE: cat

My reads boil down to strong trs on Juice and Fancy. I don't see myself ever fosing Juice tbh. And then that leaves you, Rad, who I have a weaker tr on. Then, BBT has done well to ease a bit of the suspicions I had on his slot. That leaves Cat, AlwaysNever, and Spartan.

And I can sense scum thinks I am somehow an easy lynch today. I see what you are doing BBT. People just can't see that I am disappointed I was wrong and thus have less motivation to try as much.

@Bulb, as you do your reread! -- just to clarify, did your read on BBT shift between these two posts? when you say "I see what you are doing BBT" what did you mean? between the two posts there was the BBT-Cat interaction -- did you have a read on that.

all of this is helping me see where you're coming from on your case against Bulb; i didn't originally grasp where you were coming from / your goals

But then this argument can be applied to spartan and cat can't it? There was pressure building on cat and spartan flipped attention to me. I am just thinking sometimes we struggle with confirmation bias where we see what we want to see. I am just saying try to look at every possibility.

Almost done with the flower iso and I am thinking town lean. Just misguided newbie maybe? I want to hear more from you

[flowerdogs]

no one has declared intent to hammer but (mentioning this bc it was not discussed end of day one), it would be good to give people a chance to leave legacy reads. Fancy, Juice -- town likely to be targeted for NKs, also Cat (useful whether they filp town or wolf) -- I would have liked to know Goldfish's reads before being hammered

[Juice]

like I said - people should take my gambit seriously. But if I die tonight - get BBT tomorrow.
And remember FP - is 100% town, there is no way he can be mafia

[Juice]

VOTE: BBT

(@Fancy)

this vote is worthless - if im not voting him. Just saying

[flowerdogs]

But then this argument can be applied to spartan and cat can't it? There was pressure building on cat and spartan flipped attention to me. I am just thinking sometimes we struggle with confirmation bias where we see what we want to see. I am just saying try to look at every possibility

i agree this is a good point!

[Bulbazoor]

OK my interest in the game has been reignited.

I, like Bulba was kinda depressed Goldfish didn't flip town, coupled with real life being hectic I slacked and I'm sorry for that.

Cat I'm coming for you.

Your partner is probably Rad or Flowers, that is all.

welcome back Fancy

i'm online right now so feel free to ask me questions & talk with me

Yeah lets!

BBT and Bulba why them? I'm needing a case on either of these two slots.

sorry i don't... which sucks :/

i'm really not seeing Cat as mafia -- if you would like to point me to moments when Cat seems especially scummy, i will look at those moments! i think their response to being pushed today has just been townie but you disagree with this? throughout the day, i've also felt better about Rad & Spartan, both of whom were originally nullish for me. my PoE has been pretty standard but if i move Rad & Spartan & Cat out of my PoE, & i have the very useful information that i am town, then it's just Bulb & BBT. Bulb & BBT as a pair also does make sense for me i think? -- i wasn't a huge fan of Spartan's case on Bulb either but pushing on Bulb about BBT makes a lot of sense & it's a line of questioning i also want to pursue. i think i pointed out a weird Bulb-BBT interaction as well.

i'm interested that Juice has seemed noticeably scummier to you on this reread? i haven't evaluated Juice's slot in a very long time

from your point of view, if i am town who would w!Cat's partner be? Rad?

I would like for you to point me to specific posts that lead you to believe these people are towny. I had rad as a townlean but I am concerned about his actions today.

Time for my gambit - was I interested in who people scum read? Yes.

Did I think everyone would tell the truth? Not at all. I also knew - that with a lot of people town reading me, I had an advantage in making this play.

Four people put forward: Bulba/BBT.

One of you is 100% sheeping me, so I town read you. Which mean either - Spartan, Cat or Flower is second mafia and partnered with BBT.

And Bulba - I haven't scum read you for a while, but you were the perfect candidate for people to vote without any real reason to back it up. The fact that Cat has a large amount of votes - means that is quite possible that he is mafia, and my town read is flawed. But I am confident that at least one of Spartan, Cat or Flower will flip mafia.

My actual town reads: FP, Rad, Bulba

hm ok! how do you read my kind of sudden flip from wanting to vote Cat to wanting to vote BBT/Bulb? (@ anyone, really -- i'm curious how people read my thought processes since entering the game, whether they town- or scum- read it)

I was hoping to find more on why you had a sudden flip. Not satisfied with what I saw sadly. But you do have posts that sound tonally town.

[Bulbazoor]

What happened to BBT? Did he forget he was in this game? Haven't seen them in a while. But they are next on my ISO analysis.