Mini Normal 2283 - Mafia PT

[Frogsterking]

Who is the dumbest pick as an FoS to be partnered with Grib?

Aisa?

[Frogsterking]

"Beginners to gamethrowing often think that they must create compelling, nuanced cases in order to bring suspicion down on someone who has been beyond suspicion for most of the game. Not so. The undisputed king of tinfoil, Alex Jones, has never made a coherent argument in his life. Yet he has swindled millions more people into believing obvious nonsense than you ever will. So follow his example. No chain of logic is too dubious, no associative too indecipherable, for you to somehow make it about how the claimed PR who has buried 2 wolves is fooling everyone.

Start by looking at associatives with flipped wolves. Associatives are like a coin; every one has two sides, and as the person constructing the case, you have the right to choose which side applies to your position. Did the mafia townread your tinfoil victim? That’s a classic case of wolves trying to clear each other. But if they scumread your victim, it’s obviously bussing or TMI. (If you’re instead trying to tinfoil clear an obvious mafia, reverse these arguments. A townread is TMI, while a scumread is them trying to get a villager killed.)"

[Frogsterking]

"Beginners to gamethrowing often think that they must create compelling, nuanced cases in order to bring suspicion down on someone who has been beyond suspicion for most of the game. Not so. The undisputed king of tinfoil, Alex Jones, has never made a coherent argument in his life. Yet he has swindled millions more people into believing obvious nonsense than you ever will. So follow his example. No chain of logic is too dubious, no associative too indecipherable, for you to somehow make it about how the claimed PR who has buried 2 wolves is fooling everyone.

Start by looking at associatives with flipped wolves. Associatives are like a coin; every one has two sides, and as the person constructing the case, you have the right to choose which side applies to your position. Did the mafia townread your tinfoil victim? That’s a classic case of wolves trying to clear each other. But if they scumread your victim, it’s obviously bussing or TMI. (If you’re instead trying to tinfoil clear an obvious mafia, reverse these arguments. A townread is TMI, while a scumread is them trying to get a villager killed.)"

This with the theme of transference. Oh boy.

"Transference is when someone redirects their feelings about one person onto someone else. During a therapy session, it usually refers to a person transferring their feelings about someone else onto their therapist.

Countertransference is when a therapist transfers feelings onto the patient. Both transference and countertransference usually happen unconsciously."

[Frogsterking]

"Next, examine the nightkills and their legacies. I know, I know - you were taught in Gamethrowing 101 to make sure that the town doesn’t look at dead town legacies at all. But now you can use them for your own ends. As with associatives, a dead town that scumread your victim was obviously killed for their reads, while one that townread them was killed for WIFOM."

[Frogsterking]

"Transference is when someone redirects their feelings about one person onto someone else. During a therapy session, it usually refers to a person transferring their feelings about someone else onto their therapist.

Countertransference is when a therapist transfers feelings onto the patient. Both transference and countertransference usually happen unconsciously."
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/wha ... ansference

~~~~~~~~

This vibe is super fucking weird.

I'm going to be surprised if you're both town here. Honestly, it reads like hard distancing, but I can't imagine what the team would have to be for this to be a viable strategy.

Hey Grib, how are you?

...

I have no interest in killing off a lurker Day 1, as much as I'd like to be rid of them.

BBT is probably going to be the consensus, and there's a reasonable chance he's scum. I'm nowhere near as confident as you seem to be.

I have no interest in killing off a lurker Day 1, as much as I'd like to be rid of them.

BBT is probably going to be the consensus, and

there's a reasonable chance he's scum

. I'm nowhere near as confident as you seem to be.

Fuck. That was a kick to the ball sack.

...

This post is @BBT but I don't feel like quoting his large post.

I had a silly thought over Night 1 that if mafia shot HPE, TSQ would tunnel me for this phase and either succeed in getting me eliminated or ruin any towncred I had. Given that no one besides him has really shown any interest in scumreading me, I figured it was the mafia's best bet to get me back in the elim pool. I would say the major difference between my scumread and yours is that you already looked bad and were a viable wagon because of your argument with him, while I looked questionable at best near the end of Day 1.

Regarding the buddying and my request of your past town games, I thought that maybe you just wanted to have a villager pocketed and picked Bella by having an empty (meta) townread on her. When I asked you about your past meta reads, I didn't mean on Bella specifically, I was referring to any instance where you were a villager and relied on meta to read someone else. Because if this isn't something you normally do as a villager, then it just looks like a fake townread.

I see.

If it helps, I town read Bella after she was tracked to a kill. And then defended her. I have a tendency to just town read her for some reason.

...

Also, ideally, I wouldn't have to summon you to do the one thing town is supposed to be doing. Observing that you aren't really engaged is hardly talking about you.

If you want to sort me talk to me, not about me.

Scum struggling to engage with the game without someone providing an angle for them...

Just incase anyone was wondering.

...

~~~~~~~~

I don't like gribs votes moving with momentum rather than actual changes. He's now reevaluated BBT twice and both times nothing had changed except the momentum of the wagon.

How do you feel about grib

[Frogsterking]

VOTE: Grib



"Transference is when someone redirects their feelings about one person onto someone else. During a therapy session, it usually refers to a person transferring their feelings about someone else onto their therapist.

Countertransference is when a therapist transfers feelings onto the patient. Both transference and countertransference usually happen unconsciously."
https://www.webmd.com/mental-health/wha ... ansference

~~~~~~~~

This vibe is super fucking weird.

I'm going to be surprised if you're both town here. Honestly, it reads like hard distancing, but I can't imagine what the team would have to be for this to be a viable strategy.

Hey Grib, how are you?

...

I have no interest in killing off a lurker Day 1, as much as I'd like to be rid of them.

BBT is probably going to be the consensus, and there's a reasonable chance he's scum. I'm nowhere near as confident as you seem to be.

I have no interest in killing off a lurker Day 1, as much as I'd like to be rid of them.

BBT is probably going to be the consensus, and

there's a reasonable chance he's scum

. I'm nowhere near as confident as you seem to be.

Fuck. That was a kick to the ball sack.

...

This post is @BBT but I don't feel like quoting his large post.

I had a silly thought over Night 1 that if mafia shot HPE, TSQ would tunnel me for this phase and either succeed in getting me eliminated or ruin any towncred I had. Given that no one besides him has really shown any interest in scumreading me, I figured it was the mafia's best bet to get me back in the elim pool. I would say the major difference between my scumread and yours is that you already looked bad and were a viable wagon because of your argument with him, while I looked questionable at best near the end of Day 1.

Regarding the buddying and my request of your past town games, I thought that maybe you just wanted to have a villager pocketed and picked Bella by having an empty (meta) townread on her. When I asked you about your past meta reads, I didn't mean on Bella specifically, I was referring to any instance where you were a villager and relied on meta to read someone else. Because if this isn't something you normally do as a villager, then it just looks like a fake townread.

I see.

If it helps, I town read Bella after she was tracked to a kill. And then defended her. I have a tendency to just town read her for some reason.

...

Also, ideally, I wouldn't have to summon you to do the one thing town is supposed to be doing. Observing that you aren't really engaged is hardly talking about you.

If you want to sort me talk to me, not about me.

Scum struggling to engage with the game without someone providing an angle for them...

Just incase anyone was wondering.

...

~~~~~~~~

I meant, what peopel have to say about it when I lay out the reasons. But you're right, I don't think I'm going to get much out of waiting.

The problems I have with that vote are

1) it was waaay too early to accuse Firebringer of not wanting to have reads.
2) it was also too early to accuse scum of not wanting to fill out your survey - barely half the game had posted at that time.
3) you didn't explain why scum would or would not interact with your quiz.
4) I purposefully ignored your quiz to see what you would do about it, and you didn't react at all, which makes me think that 2 was complete bull.
5) you townreading me right after that felt appease-y.

this is a scum post. poking at things that are surface level and look weird but at their core don't have any particular reason why scum would do them rather than town.

I think the whole song and dance that grib did wrt me and frogster falls into the same category of just performative nonsense.

I don't think you think any of this actually helps you find scum.

VOTE: grib

Realistic attempts to sorts don't look like this, generally, this is what scum posts when they want to look involved in the thread but don't have anything real to push on.

Eh, yeah, that's about what I expected from Shea. There's always at least one player every single game who dislikes either me or my playstyle and then finds a way to scumread me for it.

Probably just going to ignore and play around that slot, to be honest, because if he's a villager there's like 0% chance he ever extends an olive branch.

...

I don't like gribs votes moving with momentum rather than actual changes. He's now reevaluated BBT twice and both times nothing had changed except the momentum of the wagon.

I don't like gribs votes moving with momentum rather than actual changes. He's now reevaluated BBT twice and both times nothing had changed except the momentum of the wagon.

Well, people are complaining about consolidating and not having a last minute rando wagon. Let’s be real, the only real momentum the BBT wagon had was due to your case, and I decided that wasn’t enough for me. I paid more attention to the people saying that BBT often gets flack for playstyle.

Anyway, Solway has momentum, that slot isn’t villagery enough imo, there were some takes I agreed with but I also massively feel like he’s making easy posts. Which is ??? when he did say that this game his thoughts are much more fleshed out than he usually plays.

Maybe I'm misremembering, but I don't think I reevaluated BBT twice? I voted him fairly early, then Shea did his reaction test, I stayed to see what would happen, I moved to HPE at some point, and then switched back to BBT because Shea shaded me for vanity voting.

Shea shades a lot tbh.

...

Part of my issue with grib is that basically all his analysis seems completely on the surface, and he keeps demanding people justify themselves to him without really giving much justification of his own outside of very baseline stuff.

Like ironically if I'm looking for someone in this thread who is trying to make sure he has Reasons TM for everything he's doing and every progression it's grib, the problem is I haven't really found any of those justifications to be compelling.

I don't think not being compelled by my reasons is at all the same thing as my stances not being as justified as you (or anyone) would like them to be. You can think someone explained themselves well or has good reasons for thinking a certain way, and still disagree with the premise of what they're saying. I just think you're conflating the two.

I'm happy to elaborate on anything I've said that's lacking.

...

The reason I scum read you is I do not think you're trying to figure out people's alignment, you know, the baseline of what a townie is trying to do, and that's a pretty disingenuous point at the end there. As you said yourself you didn't even know who I was when you initiated that exchange.

Like I didn't even know who Shea was until he popped in at that time. Didn't catch the user title in their first post.

In any case, I don't think I'm going to be able to convince you I'm a villager and vice versa. People have complained about how much we post, so I'm going to drop it here. And I do hear you on the HPE thing, so I can drop that too for the time being.

Right, OK. But 'How' did I look bad and why is it bad = scum and not bad = town? Like, what specifically makes me scum?

Tone, reaction, vibes, etcetera. This one simply thinks you're acting like scum in it's eyes based on the what it's seen from your bouts with TSQ. If you wanna argue against that, go ahead,

but it probably ain't really gonna change this one's opinion on you and the situation

.

Independent of the read on BBT, the mindset of this post is pretty bad. I think the underlined is +scum motivated rather than +town.

Hmmmmm.

Sorry, "I hear you and I'll drop it" doesn't work on things that happened seventy pages ago? What are you trying to say with that post?

seventy posts, not pages

...

[Frogsterking]

Phew this is a lot of work. This is the prompt for the grib -> elements section.

"If you’re doing everything right, you should be able to get a few paranoid townies on your side, while your victim starts to become concerned at the tides turning against them. Sensing a shift in the gamestate, they will no doubt try to defend themselves by refuting your arguments and undermining your case. That’s when you hit them with your trump card: they are a good wolf.

That’s right. The person you are scumreading is skilled at playing the mafia alignment. That means that they are always mafia, and if you ever townread them, no matter how solid your reasons, you are being tricked by their devious mafia ways. The better they are at wolfing, the more you should scumread them for it. Needless to say, being the master manipulators that they are, nothing is out of their scum range. No action, no matter how townie, is beyond their grasp. Did they singlehandedly kill half the mafia team? That is exactly what a skilled wolf would do. Having three red flips by day four is a tell-tale sign of strong wolf play. Did a flipped cop check them green? Perhaps they are the Godfather. It’s not like anyone’s going to bother checking the first page where the host confirms that investigations will not be falsified. And if they did, well, who’s to say this game isn’t bastard? The host could have lied."

After this i have to add in the bbt -> shea section

[Frogsterking]

"Therein lies the genius of flash wagons. Like the Lord, you will giveth, and you will taketh away. Rather than denying the town the 48 hours they are entitled to solve in, you will benevolently permit them all the time they are allotted. Once they have discussed and found an execution candidate they agree on, you will render every scrap of solving null and void by abruptly switching the target to someone else at the very last minute. Ideally, this switch will be done with as little discussion as possible so that people are forced to make naked votes in a mad panic rather than rationally weigh the benefits and drawbacks of switching wagons. This has the additional benefit of denying the new execution target time to claim if they are a power role. However, just in case they’re quick on the draw, try to switch the execution to someone who isn’t around at EOD at all to defend themselves. Players in odd time zones, such as Australians or Eastern Europeans, are particularly vulnerable to this strategy. If they didn’t want to be rolled at EOD, they shouldn’t have signed up to a North American game.

Many towns will simply heed a call of “flash wagon!” and frantically switch targets like a raid boss having their aggro pulled by a moronic DPS. But some more skeptical playerlists might need a little convincing. Fortunately, you have a wide variety of fallacious arguments that you can pull out of your arsenal in order to convince them. Don’t bother using just one, either: use every one you think you can get away with, especially if other players have limited time (owing to the impending deadline) to refute them. It worked for Duane Gish, and it can work for you."

[Eiralox]

so yeah i skimmed this morning and saw that and went wtf, then skimmed above strat thingies.

now i see brain pipe man is skwatiing in thred : P

yeah i think all the shiny lights migght attracft town to grib buffet.

basiucally im going:

"not voting nm, between grib and n_m grib, no fuvking idea bout grib, conflicted, but they weird to me theri pushes today, and n_m i very sure is good.
so meh."
------
then if we can kill bella and no wathcher wathces the watchpeople I:

Mailed:

1. Bella N1 Fire N2 Frog N3
2. Bella N1 Not_Mafia n2 ? N3

or whataver if i claim straight maildog

[Eiralox]

didnt go thru posts but have to, maybe agree some points u raise but not all kinda thing, or probe grib but meh meh nah

[Eiralox]

*posts used in ur grib case

[Eiralox]

or that';s a cigar. some reason thought it was pipe.... are pipes sexier than cigars?

[Eiralox]

didnt go thru posts but have to, maybe agree some points u raise but not all kinda thing, or probe grib but meh meh nah

*maybe agree with parts of grib case in thred, lazy talking

[Eiralox]

omfw ive backseated so much that ive forgotten bout 792

that's an excellent post to use as grib shade : P

[Eiralox]

waaaaaaarrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh ok imma defend n_M i guess, makes sense to me. laterish.

[Eiralox]

ok your case has definite flesh. rn it's a gamble cos folk have little time, but there's def a lot of grib shade in there to work with.

I might not vote grib after all. we'll see. might say i believe N_M is mason and bad vote tho, cos i can spin that

[Frogsterking]

ok your case has definite flesh. rn it's a gamble cos folk have little time, but there's def a lot of grib shade in there to work with.

I might not vote grib after all. we'll see. might say i believe N_M is mason and bad vote tho, cos i can spin that

I wouldn't vote Grib if I were you lol

I was scared people would call me out for horseshit. I feel like if anything, you could post a biggish follow up of your own where you point out what you like and don't like. As long as people are talking about it then they're talking about horseshit.

My gf thinks I'm crazy because I've been cackling for like 24 hours straight

I loafed out a little bit because I didn't even add the word prompts I was planning. I can maybe use the prompts as a reference for my follow up.

[Frogsterking]

BUS ME NOW

[Frogsterking]

BUS BUS BUS

[Eiralox]

uh no

[Eiralox]

: p

[Frogsterking]

Write like a deeper analytical post which takes time to read

[Frogsterking]

It's a chess strategy. When the opponent is running out time you play moves like that which they don't have time to think about. I can keep stressing them out with this shit.

BTW i am actually both dru k and high Ia wasn't lying.

[Frogsterking]

I am not quite as bad at being cross faded as I'm making myself out to be in-thread but it's also the truth :p

[Eiralox]

nah it's pretty clear yer drunkigh lol >.< im not scottish but im a bit french i guess

have fun