Open 869 | Fight for the Winter Court [Game Over!]

[skitter30]

Actually rereading today's posts i think coral looks a lot more townir than she did yesterday

[Isis]

1094 is still about the game plan of demona putting self in a game and demanding people pay attention to demona and townread demona later.

I'm super confused about "gotcha Isis you just said there's only one reason to townread demona" and then digging up a post with "Which is kind of like an expansion of <original reason>"


It's mostly par for course for demona to not bare soul immediately d2. I'm saying that demanding a crossvote after opaque play and demanding a crossvote after transparent play are different and since demona did the former I'm that much more wary. If you're getting townread as scum "x townreads me" becomes this mental shortcut assumption and you don't really think about whether your recent posts express your alignment or not in the same way.

[catboi]

if I'm scum why do you even care, I'm not beholden to making you not feel annoyed, obviously. I'm town though and you've all but declared me lockscum so I don't actually have reason to care if I'm annoying you, I'm not begging for you to townread me because I literally do not need it

cry more

This post made me sad. I don't think there's anything else to say.

you seem to be unable to pick a lane on my alignment but are dissatisfied with me declaring decisively a course of action that does not favor you. if i'm scum you know i'm not averse to playing dirty and am not going to hold back, if i'm town and you're town and i'm being a dumbass then yes it's unfortunate but you've given me no reason to respond any differently

if we are town unable to find each other and skitter literally scumslipped in front of me only for me to go "ah, nevertheless, carry on", oh well, I'll have a laugh about it. I have no idea what you're trying to do at all here.

[Isis]

Actually rereading today's posts i think coral looks a lot more townir than she did yesterday

Some of the hypotheticals contradicted by the nightswaps seem at minimum tedious to fake.

[catboi]

Actually rereading today's posts i think coral looks a lot more townir than she did yesterday

Some of the hypotheticals contradicted by the nightswaps seem at minimum tedious to fake.

pre-writing a wall to appear uninformed is really pretty trivial imo

[demona]

1094 is still about the game plan of demona putting self in a game and demanding people pay attention to demona and townread demona later.

I'm super confused about "gotcha Isis you just said there's only one reason to townread demona" and then digging up a post with "Which is kind of like an expansion of <original reason>"


It's mostly par for course for demona to not bare soul immediately d2. I'm saying that demanding a crossvote after opaque play and demanding a crossvote after transparent play are different and since demona did the former I'm that much more wary. If you're getting townread as scum "x townreads me" becomes this mental shortcut assumption and you don't really think about whether your recent posts express your alignment or not in the same way.

i was mostly referring to the top part where you agree with coral post

which isn’t at all about the one reason?

and catboi expanded that to say that your one reason was the only reason anyone was townreading me for

which, uh, it wasn’t

i also don’t think i ‘demanded’ anything

like chara voting for you is only a plus from my perspective and i am town so it feels kinda !!! that you’re saying it is like a change in my approach et cetera when it comes from the same thing

but also i am still not entirely sure i am following, so

[demona]

especially because like

mafia left the wall as it was right

so that means mafia had a plan for winning the wall or mafia could not

if the plan option then… this kinda feels like it could be part of that

but would that be preferable approach for scum!you rather than 1v1 chara?

i dunno

maybe because could always fallback to 1v1 chara plan

[Isis]

Ok yes the de-emphasized part of the post I agreed a couple posts she liked are more green than red. I don't remember what those posts said. I was earnest about liking them more than I disliked them
If that looks like read progression with jaunts and corners to you it didn't feel that way to me but you're not being logically inconsistent or anything

[demona]

*could not swap out of wall

(because 2 members at keep or gate)

[Isis]

I can't 1v1 Chara unless and until I'm sure it's the wall scum, have mercy with the Isis ice queen fanfics T_T
(Joke/vent post I appreciate you thumbing through hypos)

[skitter30]

skitter -- I'm trying to decide which makes more sense. That you were moved out of the Gate because of your alignment or because of your reads.

Plz elaborate on the 'because of your alignment' bit

Either there were two scum in the gate, the scum in the keep thought you'd misread them, or it's purely shenanigans.

In the first game, the swap was part shenanigans and part to increase the probability of scum winning the keep. The scum ratio at the start of night 1 were 1-1-1.

So i guess which of these do you think is the world we live in?

[Faker]

you seem to be unable to pick a lane on my alignment but are dissatisfied with me declaring decisively a course of action that does not favor you. if i'm scum you know i'm not averse to playing dirty and am not going to hold back, if i'm town and you're town and i'm being a dumbass then yes it's unfortunate but you've given me no reason to respond any differently

if we are town unable to find each other and skitter literally scumslipped in front of me only for me to go "ah, nevertheless, carry on", oh well, I'll have a laugh about it. I have no idea what you're trying to do at all here.

You literally said that if we're both town you have no reason to care about annoying me. I'm willing to vote first on Day 5 because

I really want to play and have fun

. Being a huge dick, constantly threatening to hostage take and only ever responding with WELL WHY DO YOU CARE HUH??? and refusing to accommodate for any of my strengths because I know you're willing to play dirty and not hold back just makes me want to vote skitter and have us both go back to retirement.

I don't really want to get in the gutter or prove I'm willing to throw to show I'm town. I want to have a fun game where I get to read and meta.

If you're scum, consider holding back and not playing dirty. You can play aggressive and bluff without being a gigantic jerk about it.

[Faker]

Maybe I should frame it this way: If I'm scum I'm definitely holding back and not playing dirty. Consider returning the favor.

[Coral]

I'm not voting right away, I want people to check in first, but I am likely to vote soon.

If you think I'm scum, go ahead, pre-flip me, start partner hunting, it's all going to be meaningless very very soon.

My point is that these are bluster. I'm not panicked and I'm not sure what gives you that impression. I just think you're scum who is flailing a bit, and your play doesn't make sense from town.

lol okay, egg will be on your face

I was thinking while out for a walk about what your goals would be as scum here. I think most likely you would be trying to undermine confidence and play into my fears of Getting Things Wrong. Which is an understandable goal, the approach is just ineffective. I'm much more vulnerable to people being nice to me

But anyway. The point I wanted to make here is that this is a pretty clear perspective slip. Your stated perspective is that I'm scum, and you have performed as such that you feel that fairly strongly. However, your scum goal here is to make me feel like I am wrongtown. Those clash, and result in the post that I've quoted, where you say something that only makes sense if you know I'm town. There wouldn't be egg on my face if I were scum here. I wouldn't be embarrassed to have gotten you wrong, because I would know your alignment already.

Even if I take the most generous interpretation, that you meant that I would look foolish to others for having gotten you wrong, there's no reason for you to tell me that directly. That shouldn't be the focus for you. It would be something like, "my flip will prove me right about you".

[Coral]

I think this has been enough distraction. I don't want to focus on the Keep anymore for a bit, I'm less sure than I'd like to be on the Wall (despite coming into the day most confident there) and I want to try to shore that up.

[Faker]

If you want to talk about other slots or other games I'm down, but I really don't want a response to 1636.

[skitter30]

but also would rather play isis votes chara or chara votes isis and everyone solves as if demona confirmed

From my pov this is not a given and i dont really like you presenting your minigame this way

[skitter30]

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

Coral seems to think thay both town need to vote town to win keep
(Which is wrong and is what prompted my question)
I think her post makes more sense in context

no, she literally is arguing that we should not resolve the keep if I vote and spend days yakking it up while treating me as scum which is beyond nonsensical but provides a ton of benefit to her if she knows she's about to eat shit when I flip

Ig i'm confused why from your pov she looks bad when you flip {town from your pov}

[catboi]

you seem to be unable to pick a lane on my alignment but are dissatisfied with me declaring decisively a course of action that does not favor you. if i'm scum you know i'm not averse to playing dirty and am not going to hold back, if i'm town and you're town and i'm being a dumbass then yes it's unfortunate but you've given me no reason to respond any differently

if we are town unable to find each other and skitter literally scumslipped in front of me only for me to go "ah, nevertheless, carry on", oh well, I'll have a laugh about it. I have no idea what you're trying to do at all here.

You literally said that if we're both town you have no reason to care about annoying me. I'm willing to vote first on Day 5 because

I really want to play and have fun

. Being a huge dick, constantly threatening to hostage take and only ever responding with WELL WHY DO YOU CARE HUH??? and refusing to accommodate for any of my strengths because I know you're willing to play dirty and not hold back just makes me want to vote skitter and have us both go back to retirement.

I don't really want to get in the gutter or prove I'm willing to throw to show I'm town. I want to have a fun game where I get to read and meta.

If you're scum, consider holding back and not playing dirty. You can play aggressive and bluff without being a gigantic jerk about it.

Maybe I should frame it this way: If I'm scum I'm definitely holding back and not playing dirty. Consider returning the favor.

i don't think declaring i'm voting someone who is not you when i am town is emotional terrorism. If you think me not bowing down and townreading you is dickish, that is your problem, not mine. You do not get to control me or my vote and I will vote when I am ready to.

I highly suggest you get over yourself.

[catboi]

If you want to talk about other slots or other games I'm down, but I really don't want a response to 1636.

maybe don't post things if you don't want me to respond to them

[catboi]

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

Coral seems to think thay both town need to vote town to win keep
(Which is wrong and is what prompted my question)
I think her post makes more sense in context

no, she literally is arguing that we should not resolve the keep if I vote and spend days yakking it up while treating me as scum which is beyond nonsensical but provides a ton of benefit to her if she knows she's about to eat shit when I flip

Ig i'm confused why from your pov she looks bad when you flip {town from your pov}

b/c the attempts to marginalize/minimize me and my voice in my game while i'm active comes across as overtly pro-scum and someone who is likely to look very bad when the keep flips.


(it has crossed my mind that coral is just town with horrendous reasoning. i've been too soft on people who pushed me like that recently though and paid for it. this is complicated by absinthe's entrance to the day being mediocre)

[skitter30]

Isis is scum at... i want to say 80% confidence, which for me is very high. this is the outcome i expected if demona wasn't swapped out, though that doesn't mean i'm any more prepared for the next phase.

feel free to vote for isis

i would be super happy to play as confirmed (noone is

really

going to argue that i stayed in the game as a scum to, like, manipulate the other games or whatever, right?)

On reread this is actually p bad imo

it just makes everything less frustrating for me

like you’ve played with me enough to know i don’t exactly react super well to being suspected/pressured et cetera and often end up making a mess of things and to just skip the potential of that altogether would be pretty ideal to me

do you really think that post outweighs everything you were previously townreading me for?

or?

Ok this might not be super fair given my approach to keep

But like i don't think you're in a position to strongly push to effectively hammer tesf yourself just now, and from my pov i see a lot of scum motivation for doing so, and i do not have a strong enuf reason to townread you to be willing to bet the minigame on that at thia point in time

It doesn't like make me scumread you outright but posts like that make me concerned and nervous

[Coral]

Okay, my current to-do list, that I personally at least would like to get through before we flip anywhere, although I of course can't control what anyone else may choose to do :

1) Ignore the baits from catboi that are really hard not to respond to
2) Write up what made me feel the way I do about Chara.
3) Reread things with the knowledge of scum!absinthe in mind and see if that opens up any new angles of perspective, maybe some thoughts on what the scum team may have been trying to do at different points.
4) Stare really hard at Isis and demona to sort out what exactly is going on over there because I've kind of been glazing over it a bit while distracted by the Keep.

Does anyone care about me casing absinthe as an individual? I can, it isn't my immediate inclination since it's hard to see it being that useful, but I guess that's up to Tempest mostly.

[skitter30]

I probably still think demona is town but not strongly enuf rn to bet the minigame on that

Is probably a good way to say it

[skitter30]

but coral is arguing that me doing so would make it unnecessary to actually resolve the keep and get my flip and that it's sooo much more valuable to treat the other voices here as confirmed town

Coral seems to think thay both town need to vote town to win keep
(Which is wrong and is what prompted my question)
I think her post makes more sense in context

no, she literally is arguing that we should not resolve the keep if I vote and spend days yakking it up while treating me as scum which is beyond nonsensical but provides a ton of benefit to her if she knows she's about to eat shit when I flip

Ig i'm confused why from your pov she looks bad when you flip {town from your pov}

b/c the attempts to marginalize/minimize me and my voice in my game while i'm active comes across as overtly pro-scum and someone who is likely to look very bad when the keep flips.


(it has crossed my mind that coral is just town with horrendous reasoning. i've been too soft on people who pushed me like that recently though and paid for it. this is complicated by absinthe's entrance to the day being mediocre)

If i were coral i'd be a lot more worried abt you flipping scum than town as either alignment