In post 2172, MathBlade wrote:Therefore I am not assuming my Skitter scumread is correct. I am pointing out things I find scummy but I don’t have her scumlocked.
I think town her would either A) Be honest she doesn’t have any hard reads
Or B) Vote Catboi
I think she’d be constantly trying to assess my alignment rather than this hyper focused defense of my posts where she is literally ignoring context.
I don't really agree with your assessment of her posts in response to you. I think she comes off as frustrated, yes, but the way you express things can be frustrating. I don't think it comes across like she isn't trying to sort you.
In post 2148, skitter30 wrote:I'm really starting to doubt math is town here. I don't think he's solving, i think he's decided it's convenient to call me scummy and is now appealing to others to try to justify it, and isnt really doing much else. He's saying it's to solve the other two games but imo he hasnt really sone much to solve either
Like i couldnt tell you who he thinks is scum in either of the other two, can anyone else ?
And from my pov:
- it's strictly optimal to vote me, esp. if i'm unconfidant in either of the other two
-> i understand why people think this is scummy but for me to be scum here i decided to swap myself into keep (with two players i don't know how to read) and decide my best strategy is to just insist that the other two vote me, and keep insisting that through a replacement
- which is just, like, why ? .there's many easier ways to win a minigame than for scum-me to pick this fight
- and idk why i'm still bugging math, i should be buddying him here if i'm scum, not continuing to anatgonize him
I don't think it's normal to plan that far ahead wrt swapping and then how the minigame is played
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 2147, MathBlade wrote:I think we see the same reasoning and reach a different conclusion.
I think town!Skitter would want me to vote her. I think her approach isn’t going to make me vote her. I think that’s because she’s not town skitter so she’s not taking a town approach
As scum, her primary and arguably only goal would be to get voted. She would be informed of your alignment, and know that making you not want to vote her is directly counter to her primary goal and gains her very little.
As town, her goals are both to find scum, and to convince the other town in the Keep to vote her. If she is uninformed of your alignment, then her main approach to you will be with the goal of sorting you, not appeasing you. If she thinks you're more likely to be scum, then you aren't voting for her anyway, so you voting her isn't even a concern, and her goal shifts instead to demonstrating to catboi (and others) why you're scum.
Her approach towards you is 100% more of a town approach than a scum approach because it is uninformed of your alignment, it fits with a town mindset of wanting to sort you rather than appease you, and it hurts what her goals would be as scum.
I think it's like kinda logically sound to say abrasion in Keep is towny but you have to analyze whether it would have happened regardless of alignment. I think a lot of playsthles are going to clash regardless of alignment.
Uncharacteristic abrasiveness would be towny yes. The only slot that has seemed uncharacteristically abrasive is like, catboi, but that was to you and you're not in keep.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
In post 2148, skitter30 wrote:I'm really starting to doubt math is town here. I don't think he's solving, i think he's decided it's convenient to call me scummy and is now appealing to others to try to justify it, and isnt really doing much else. He's saying it's to solve the other two games but imo he hasnt really sone much to solve either
Like i couldnt tell you who he thinks is scum in either of the other two, can anyone else ?
And from my pov:
- it's strictly optimal to vote me, esp. if i'm unconfidant in either of the other two
-> i understand why people think this is scummy but for me to be scum here i decided to swap myself into keep (with two players i don't know how to read) and decide my best strategy is to just insist that the other two vote me, and keep insisting that through a replacement
- which is just, like, why ? .there's many easier ways to win a minigame than for scum-me to pick this fight
- and idk why i'm still bugging math, i should be buddying him here if i'm scum, not continuing to anatgonize him
I don't think it's normal to plan that far ahead wrt swapping and then how the minigame is played
You think scum wouldn't have planned for the swap and the later minigame? I think that's all they wouod be doing day1
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 2083, MathBlade wrote:Did Chara just do a ton of pages of stock in Waffle House?
Eg with me specifically “Math seems like he’s in his town meta but it’s fakeable so wait and see if he’s informed”
Non stance stances suck.
Can anyone explain why they townread it? I don’t understand.
I don’t like how everyone but Chara ignored this.
I ignored it because waffling is not, has never been, and will never be a scum tell in and of itself. It's a meaningless comment. How someone waffles, what purpose it serves, etc can be scummy but on it's own it's just not.
Also, it's also how I feel. I don't know your town meta very well at all, and I'm not sure I've ever seen you as scum except when you replaced me as scum years ago. I think you might be town and much of this is based on me thinking that prism just looked like they were having fun, which is not a great reason for a read, but I'm also finding this setup difficult to get reads that I feel great about, so I'm don't feel really sure about you and was hoping that through more interactions, I'd get a better feel for you.
I don't really understand why you don't want to solve your own mini game.
In post 826, skitter30 wrote:Like idk why you keep acting like faker was trying to herd you to keep, that wasnf happening
I think you're wrong about that. I don't see it as a necessarily bad thing for town to do, but I definitely felt herded yesterday. The pressure decrease after I agreed was palpable. To me anyway.
In post 1195, skitter30 wrote:edit i don't think ffery chooses keep if she's scum with catboi @ prism how do you think that makes sense
I put a ton of pressure to bring her here, and I don't think that progression on her choice makes sense except as reactionary to my prodding.
Eh.
Keep was my first choice since I decided to /in. I thought my reads would be more solid in a Keep that included Tammy and that was my main gripe with your "pressure". The only pressure that matters in mafia is the pressure I put on myself.
which to me doesn't feel like it was a coordinated scum plan between the two where they're trying to set a certain narrative.
The main parts that I see as pressure from Faker are here, along with the resistance from absinthe:
Spoiler:
In post 316, Faker wrote:I'm getting breakfast first but absinthe, any thoughts on going into a game with me/cat? I think it'd be fun. Also surprised that you don't want to quarantine me, so thank you!
I'd be down to go me/Tammy/cat in Keep, less sure about Gate/Wall but it might work.
In post 316, Faker wrote:absinthe, any thoughts on going into a game with me/cat? I think it'd be fun. Also surprised that you don't want to quarantine me, so thank you!
In post 369, Faker wrote:Fact that she skipped over it feels like a big +scum flag. She really puts a premium on reading me correctly after viewing my scumgames and isn't likely to miss a nested question.
In post 379, Faker wrote:The more I think about this the more strongly I feel about ffery missing that question being +scum, as absurd as it is.
In post 412, Faker wrote:
fferyllt is more because I think she's scum, likely to be scared of us both individually and our dynamic together a la 2181, and likely to flee if so. Forcing scum to make certain swaps or risk losing the game is a lot of what Day 1 is all about.
In post 441, Faker wrote:skitter/demona/Tammatha in Gate
cat/Faker/fferyllt in Keep
Chara/Isis/Coral in Wall
Looks decent but I would need to actually go back and read more of the substance I've been putting off. Swapping fferyllt/Tammatha might work but I think we get a ton of mileage out of having Tammatha at the Gate, very good clear to have and the outsiders can still help any clear read her if she's not picked.
In post 445, absinthe wrote:I'm crazy busy and I'm going to have to comb through the last 5 or so pages later today.
Saw this stuff before I gave up on getting caught up, though.
In post 316, Faker wrote:absinthe, any thoughts on going into a game with me/cat? I think it'd be fun. Also surprised that you don't want to quarantine me, so thank you!
Besides chills and nightmares?
In post 369, Faker wrote:Fact that she skipped over it feels like a big +scum flag. She really puts a premium on reading me correctly after viewing my scumgames and isn't likely to miss a nested question.
I did miss it! I have a lot of thoughts about you, but I'm not sure my experience with your play is current enough. I want to see how you're approaching the game now that you've presumably caught up on sleep. The stuff that makes me snap townread you a la the warehouse 13 game wasn't present last night. Your (and catboi's) joviality (and particularly catboi's opaqueness) in the first few hours of the game were/are a slow-burning concern. I'm thinking about the two of you together because I feel like I should be able read you in part through your interactions.
Writing that, I think I've talked myself into a tentative townlean on catboi.
That newbie game I replaced into after you replaced out had a huge impact on my scum-you model. I'm not getting that kind of vibe at all here so far, but I also wasn't seeing what I feel are town markers, either.
In post 388, skitter30 wrote:My current guess for the scumteam is ffery coral tammy
Someday you're going to figure out how to read me.
In post 401, Faker wrote:I'd say me/Tempest/cat in a game would be nice, maybe me/cat/ffery as a backup.
I don't really think in terms of placing people trying to go 3/3 in one game, but the approaches aren't mutually exclusive and even getting 2/3 constrains the scum's choices greatly.
At the moment, I'd rather be in a group that means getting Tammy right, though that's probably naive. I haven't seen/played with scum-Tammy in ages.
Some of this ordering is honestly random and I can see specific flips changing things greatly but I'll throw the dart for now and just YOLO look at people individually
In post 525, Faker wrote:Look I didn't mean to kill game discussion by waxing poetic.
I mostly agree on fferllyt Tempest but my reasoning is pretty much a dart throw atm, I also think she'd probably try and pressure me more overall.
In post 373, Faker wrote:Also no clue where the Isis thing comes from. Her experience with you is more limited IIRC and she's more likely to just townread you for NAI reasons as a result.
From catboi's pov it's not relevant whether I'd townread his scumgames right?
Yes, but see 382. We want to put people in that are likely to get an accurate read regardless of the person's alignment, not "Don't worry this strategy works BECAUSE I'm town"
This begs the question -- do you think you can read me accurately?
In post 556, Faker wrote:Yes, and you believe I can read you much more than I do as a bonus. I don't see what you're getting at.
In post 316, Faker wrote:absinthe, any thoughts on going into a game with me/cat? I think it'd be fun. Also surprised that you don't want to quarantine me, so thank you!
In post 369, Faker wrote:Fact that she skipped over it feels like a big +scum flag. She really puts a premium on reading me correctly after viewing my scumgames and isn't likely to miss a nested question.
In post 412, Faker wrote:fferyllt is more because I think she's scum, likely to be scared of us both individually and our dynamic together a la 2181, and likely to flee if so. Forcing scum to make certain swaps or risk losing the game is a lot of what Day 1 is all about.
Yes, I saw all that. I dunno if I'd flee or if I'd want to test your confident lack of confidence in your towngame. Quite possibly the latter!
If you responded to my quotewall, I haven't gotten to it yet.
In post 556, Faker wrote:Yes, and you believe I can read you much more than I do as a bonus. I don't see what you're getting at.
Just curiosity that you'd put me in your alternate group of three. It implies a confidence in reading me that is maybe justified. your self-deprecation has grown on me though.
In post 560, Faker wrote:Can you elaborate more on why it's taken you this long to really engage with my content?
In post 561, Faker wrote:I'm going to nap for a bit, I'm not the center of the world and you're doing a lot in general atm, but know that 560 is the crux of my skepticism. Maybe I'm not high priority sorting to you early as town, but I really think that I would be.
You're also
still
more concerned about me reading you correctly than the reverse, which might be fair given the current situation but it's early.
In post 561, Faker wrote:I'm going to nap for a bit, I'm not the center of the world and you're doing a lot in general atm, but know that 560 is the crux of my skepticism. Maybe I'm not high priority sorting to you early as town, but I really think that I would be.
You're also
still
more concerned about me reading you correctly than the reverse, which might be fair given the current situation but it's early.
It's not just concern about you reading me correctly. The game that prompted my hiatus was the first time I'd been miselimmed in a very, very long time. outside of a newbie game replace in to a cursed slot.
In post 428, Faker wrote:My instinct says that demona would be a good fit stylistically there but I don't know how the three of you would actually read each other, the commonality to me is more whimsy/fun/ADHD energy and not knowing how to read any of the three of you personally.
That said I actually would say I trust skitter's judgment on being able to read demona and therefore that they should go together, provided that there isn't a high risk of skitter just being able to pocket her in turn which I'm assuming atm is not the case
Can you unpack this?
In post 441, Faker wrote:skitter/demona/Tammatha in Gate
cat/Faker/fferyllt in Keep
Chara/Isis/Coral in Wall
Looks decent but I would need to actually go back and read more of the substance I've been putting off. Swapping fferyllt/Tammatha might work but I think we get a ton of mileage out of having Tammatha at the Gate, very good clear to have and the outsiders can still help any clear read her if she's not picked.
I'm feeling pretty good about going into day 2 with Tammy from what I've seen so far.
In post 586, Faker wrote:@absinthe Can you lay out what minigame that would be and who it would be with?
I guess cat/Coral/me wouldn't be bad but it's not ideal and I'd greatly prefer you or Tempest. I'm not sure what shuffling to accommodate would look like, and I'm not entirely sure why you'd be averse to joining me/cat in the Keep given that it's more of a townhunting game than a scumhunting one.
In post 589, Faker wrote:I'm hoping for me/cat/Tempest or me/cat/absinthe but as it stands I'd probably join as third in any hypothetical Tempest/absinthe pairing in either Keep or Gate. I don't trust absinthe and would like to be a friendly thorn in her side if I am right.
In post 586, Faker wrote:@absinthe Can you lay out what minigame that would be and who it would be with?
I guess cat/Coral/me wouldn't be bad but it's not ideal and I'd greatly prefer you or Tempest. I'm not sure what shuffling to accommodate would look like, and I'm not entirely sure why you'd be averse to joining me/cat in the Keep given that it's more of a townhunting game than a scumhunting one.
I've come around to...not caring too much which minigame.
Shocker.
A Demona/Tammy/me Keep might mean I'd be the decider there.
In post 607, Faker wrote:absinthe can you lay out clearly why you don't think coming to the Keep with us is a good idea?
You get a chance to read two players whose games you always spectate to try and guess their alignment anyway. You've expressed some confidence in my ability to read you previously, and you've seen me have an OK track record on cat*. I'm also effectively neutralized as scum in the Keep, because if people are really worried I can just be made the designated voter.
*Nailing cat in a game I'm spectating and nailing him in a game with him are different things though, I think I can get him at the end of the day but it's not so simple when he actually preps
In post 444, Faker wrote:So want to get a headstart? I don't know if you've outed reads yet, but if there's anything you want me to look at in particular LMK
want to make sure people are okay with the arrangement first and no one storms in screaming I OBJECT!!! but other than that fine
hmm what do you make
of chara and faker both
seemingly not wanting me in the keep
without really stating why
I have explained this repeatedly, and framing it as "not wanting you in the keep" is completely missing the point. The answer is about where should
everyone
go, not just you.
442 explicitly says swapping you/skitter/a third into the Keep is fine. I want me/cat to go there because it provides a very good safety buffer and prevents us from getting into an extremely grueling 1v1.
428 talks about preserving you/skitter as a pairing. This includes in the Keep.
I'm not going in the Keep
with
you. You struggle to read me, and I struggle to read your style. It makes essentially no sense from the perspective of trying to win.
Some of this ordering is honestly random and I can see specific flips changing things greatly but I'll throw the dart for now and just YOLO look at people individually
I'm going to take somewhat cold comfort that your WH13 townread of me/nacho was apparently completely random!
Maybe it's a factor of not reading in the moment, but half the time it's a puzzle trying to figure who/what you're responding to in your posts.
In post 613, Faker wrote:
@absinthe I really don't see why. 471 is the easiest post of the bunch to fake. What's town is putting myself into the Keep anyway,
when I explicitly started the game off by stating I probably wouldn't want to go there
even if I was willing to defer.
You've seen me make incorporate longer emotional narrative arcs a la law school before but I think my play this game is pretty straightforward so far. I also like to do them as a slow burn, not just drop them randomly 24 hours into the game. Maybe there's a nightswap that would salvage this game for me but shrug. Adapting to the meta shift is a problem for future Prism.
Faker wrote:I could probably go back and forth on this all day but I'm going to leave it for now. I would still like a response to 607, though.
I have to get to it before I can respond to it.
I am sooooo close to caught up.
In post 607, Faker wrote:absinthe can you lay out clearly why you don't think coming to the Keep with us is a good idea?
You get a chance to read two players whose games you always spectate to try and guess their alignment anyway. You've expressed some confidence in my ability to read you previously, and you've seen me have an OK track record on cat*. I'm also effectively neutralized as scum in the Keep, because if people are really worried I can just be made the designated voter.
*Nailing cat in a game I'm spectating and nailing him in a game with him are different things though, I think I can get him at the end of the day but it's not so simple when he actually preps
I'm looking at the keep from the perspective of winding up the decider The sentiment around my alignment will probably improve (gawd I hope so), but I'd never be the obvtown in this Keep.
I'm still not over feeling like your entrance and early play in this game was off the map for my Prism model. And the one time I remember playing against scum-catboi was actually in the first Fortress game. I wound up in the Gate with him and was having fits figuring out the scum between him and something smart. There were off notes, but something smart wasn't looking so town either. Not sure I would have gotten it right, but it didn't matter because town lost the Keep and Wall before we got there.
I'll give it 12 hours for cold feet to set in and then vote keep.
Faker starts of by posing the grouping, absinthe doesn't respond, and instead of letting that be or only prodding about it once, Faker repeatedly hammers the point about how that is +scum for absinthe. absinthe finally responds with 445 which is a bit weak and squirmy, and tries to ask for a pairing with Tempest. Faker pushes the idea of absinthe scum to others. 558 from absinthe appeases. Faker continues the pressure, pushing absinthe as scum and denying the peace offerings.
583 absinthe again tries to push for a grouping with Tempest. Faker cuts off that angle and wants to go with absinthe wherever she ends up in 589. absinthe tries a third time in 594 to set up a different grouping, this time with demona. She ignores the proposed faker/tempest/absinthe grouping, despite her main stated goal being to go with tempest.
Faker again cuts off the angle and pushes her back towards the Keep grouping. Meanwhile absinthe gives a really awkward townread to a Faker post that, as Faker explains, shouldn't even be worth townreading. absinthe finally gives in and accepts the grouping.
All of this feels unpaired to me. Faker commenting on it live grabbed my attention, and while I hadn't been townreading absinthe, Faker's points and absinthe's responses significantly increased my scumread there. It just seems so counterproductive to me for Faker to spend all this energy drawing attention to the scumminess of her partner, swap them out into a 1v1 that they are now on the back foot in, and then bring in skitter who will be loathe to vote Faker, alongside catboi who is much more likely to just vote skitter. Faker as scum has plans and goals and I think there are so many other things that she could have done that would have been significantly more effective at improving the scumteam's chances of winning. I think this approach forces them into a narrow range of swaps and also makes both minigames harder to win and provides little to no benefit given that the only one who seems to be convinced that it makes Faker town is me, who can't even vote on the minigame
In post 2177, Isis wrote:Uncharacteristic abrasiveness would be towny yes. The only slot that has seemed uncharacteristically abrasive is like, catboi, but that was to you and you're not in keep.
I don't think that catboi's uncharacteristic abrasiveness is at all towny (closer to the opposite) but he has effectively made me not want to get into that further, so. It worked, I suppose
I prefer to focus on reasons for why I think skitter and Math are town anyway, since it's a townhunting minigame.
In post 2083, MathBlade wrote:Did Chara just do a ton of pages of stock in Waffle House?
Eg with me specifically “Math seems like he’s in his town meta but it’s fakeable so wait and see if he’s informed”
Non stance stances suck.
Can anyone explain why they townread it? I don’t understand.
I don’t like how everyone but Chara ignored this.
I ignored it because waffling is not, has never been, and will never be a scum tell in and of itself. It's a meaningless comment. How someone waffles, what purpose it serves, etc can be scummy but on it's own it's just not.
Also, it's also how I feel. I don't know your town meta very well at all, and I'm not sure I've ever seen you as scum except when you replaced me as scum years ago. I think you might be town and much of this is based on me thinking that prism just looked like they were having fun, which is not a great reason for a read, but I'm also finding this setup difficult to get reads that I feel great about, so I'm don't feel really sure about you and was hoping that through more interactions, I'd get a better feel for you.
I don't really understand why you don't want to solve your own mini game.
Because quite frankly I am bad at it. Sure it’s a 50/50 shot if I stab in the dark but other people influence that shot. I know I am town and that’s a fact. I can demonstrate that I am town much more confident that I am a 50/50 that other people can manipulate. At the end of the day, either that player believes me or doesn’t.
What’s much more valuable is being able to contribute to the other mini games and when I try to get reads on those games the conversation shifts and I feel I can’t. So then it becomes hard to assess which voices are likely right.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 2148, skitter30 wrote:I'm really starting to doubt math is town here. I don't think he's solving, i think he's decided it's convenient to call me scummy and is now appealing to others to try to justify it, and isnt really doing much else. He's saying it's to solve the other two games but imo he hasnt really sone much to solve either
Like i couldnt tell you who he thinks is scum in either of the other two, can anyone else ?
And from my pov:
- it's strictly optimal to vote me, esp. if i'm unconfidant in either of the other two
-> i understand why people think this is scummy but for me to be scum here i decided to swap myself into keep (with two players i don't know how to read) and decide my best strategy is to just insist that the other two vote me, and keep insisting that through a replacement
- which is just, like, why ? .there's many easier ways to win a minigame than for scum-me to pick this fight
- and idk why i'm still bugging math, i should be buddying him here if i'm scum, not continuing to anatgonize him
I don't think it's normal to plan that far ahead wrt swapping and then how the minigame is played
You think scum wouldn't have planned for the swap and the later minigame? I think that's all they wouod be doing day1
I mean the way you wrote the post is "would I execute <master plan>" and master plan even includes a repout as part of the narrative. Yes that's an outlandish amount of planning.
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
To give every question and answer I think if I played this as scum I'd just yolo instead of calculating all the minigame arrangements far in advance, it'd make a big mindset divergence to get some slightly better minigames if I did a bunch of age of empires spreadsheets. I know your scum approach to this setup would be different, just not prescient
"Let us say that you are right and there are two worlds. How much, then, is this 'other world' worth to you? What do you have there that you do not have here? Money? Power? Something worth causing the prince so much pain for?'"
"Well, I..."
"What? Nothing? You would make the prince suffer over... nothing?"
@coral thank you for the thoroughness of your response, that gives me a lot to ponder
@isis as scum day1 i certainly would have planned where i wanted to go, and what the ideal swap would be for day2
I'm saying that given i would have thought abouy that, it's unlikely that i would have decided this was an ideal swap
Additionally, once we're living in this post-swap world with the replacement, i dom't think i would be playing with math aa scum this way either
Pedit right, not claiming prescience, but thinking abt whether i want to play in faker/me/catboi is a very reasonable thing for scum-me to consider
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 2021, MathBlade wrote:Catboi isn’t screaming “Math is scum” constantly. So if Catboi is the town there’s a possibility they will see I am town and you’re the scum.
So, uh, for the record, the slot you are in replaced out because I got in a huge shitfight with its prior occupant because I had been mostly convinced he was scum. I'm not saying I'm giving you no chance, but. My inclination was toward voting skitter before that happened. You can figure out whether you're okay with that or not.
Awesome. /s
No wonder the game state is so tilted.
Then it sounds like we’ve got an uphill battle on both sides not just Skitter’s.
Because I know one of you is wrong.
I mean, if you're town you don't need to have one of us vote for you to win.
No I literally do.
My skills are well…bad. The best chance we have to win is if one of you votes me.
I do not trust myself to reach the right conclusion.
Okay, but this is literally identical to the scum win condition
In post 2036, Coral wrote:I know you said "I don't actually have to explain this" but I think it's important to support that claim because it seems unbelievable to me.
no actually i don't owe you jack shit lmfao
i am still curious about the apparent strength of your reads on Coral/absinthe, i don't see what's so bad about absinthe's reads that you think she isn't informed, if that's what you were saying.
I interpreted it this way at first as well, but 2013 makes it sound like he's talking about me. I think his current stated perspective is that I am town who isn't worth talking to.
This is correct. I believe your reads are likely completely incorrect and that you are deeply tunneled. In an ordinary game, I might need to explain my read either change your read on me or persuade you that my scumread is correct. (actually in a regular game i probably just say fuck it 1v1 me but w/e) However, in this game, you're isolated from me and I control my own destiny, you have basically no influence on the outcome of my game whatsoever. Therefore I see basically no purpose for dialogue between us, I'm not aiming to convince you of anything, I literally don't care.
'skitter is fucking terrifying' ~ town-bork about scum-me
'Skitter [was] terrifying to play against ngl' ~ scum-bork about town-me
'Going into lylo against scum!skit unprepared is like having someone force feed you dull razor blades. It's painful, and once it starts, you're pretty much dead' ~ NMSA
'Skitter you're a spirit animal's spirit animal' ~ slaxx
In post 2188, skitter30 wrote:why don't you think i'm playing to the scum wincon again?
I guess the way you went about things didn't feel like you were? I don't have a problem with saying "I'd prefer to be voted" because that's true for both alignments but you seemed to be making attempts to discern alignments still and while that can be bluffed (and is necessary for playing this properly and looking the part), I didn't think what you were saying looked fake. I could be wrong but that's always a possibility in this game, this is just what it feels like to me.
Mathblade's approach here is flagrantly unsubtle if scum, but also if he is scum, what else could he do?If I'm town who has promised to vote correctly he can't take an actual game action because he has toeither accept you as town or say he thinks I'm town who's making a mistake.
In post 2068, Chara wrote:is it silly to think scum kitty is scumreading Coral/townreading absinthe so he looks uninformed upon an absinthe scumflip?
It's silly because I'm town and also not townreading absinthe currently, but because I love to talk about What I Would Do As Scum, I will say it is silly regardless - in general I don't find that angle is often a successful one, people in games more often than not tend to assume the simplest possible conclusions to things and it's easy to exploit that. I don't think making that play would be any more likely to get people to townread me and win my own game but in all likelihood I'd be playing solely to run the clock here in order to force the town to make worse decisions elsewhere. The reads I gave on the gate would be entirely dependent on my read of Tempest and how much she trusted my opinion. I'd be trying to get her to vote wrong, if she trusts me I align with my partner, if she doesn't trust me I bus and hope reverse psychology works.
Anyway, to be clear: I was townreading absinthe initially at the start of Day 2, further evaluation has made me doubt that read.
In post 2078, Isis wrote:skitter is having a hedgey game of lightweight thoughts, I don't know if that's just how she plays but I feel worried that the structure of the minigame is a great reason for her to find a million hedged thoughts about the game. I don't want to impose my read of skitter on other people X.X
i sort of feel the same regarding skitter, but i also feel like that is just how she tends to express herself,
catboi being the only member of the Keep that isn't campaigning for himself to be the vote is interesting and probably the singular thing i am trying to explore from a scum kitty perspective right now. because the smart play as scum (to me) is to pretend to favour a townie while of course trying to be the vote yourself, but that only works if you actually manage to be voted by one of those townies. of course, kitty wouldn't be able to know that Math would replace in, would have reason to favour skitter for town over Prism (wants skitter's vote), etc.
that both skitter and Math are asking to be voted because they aren't confident making a decision between the remaining two is.. problematic, though in skitter's case she's communicated her willingness to vote catboi as well, i believe?
i don't know, a lot of thoughts bouncing around on the Keep that are based on how i'd navigate this scenario as Keep scum, but none of these three are me so it may be an exercise in futility.
Also!! If I was considering playing the keep Day 1 as scum, I would certainly be playing differently as my goal would be to get townread, but also this style of game is not really what I would want to play given I'd be much more comfortable simply going after someone hard. You could say I was strongarmed into it but I feel like on a scumteam I would have active consideration of where I want to go, I'm pretty sure that was part of my play the first time I played this.
In post 2113, Tempest wrote:Ah okay! I didn’t remember who said they were good with voting. My thought about that is that you are one of the people whose reads I respect the most. Not that I expect you’re always going to be right or anything, but really respect. So if you’re town, I think you have a good chance of choosing correctly, and if you’re scum that works too.
A few days ago you said you wanted to chat when I caught up. Was there anything in particular?
Thanks although I've had a pretty miserable year as town, a few bright spots but mostly terrible games
I completely forgot about that, honestly. But racking my brain, I think I wanted to know where your head is at as far as your reads and how you wanted the minigames to be resolved.
I mentally skimmed over the last few pages maybe i'm too susceptible to being swayed by who's talking but up in the air scum guess is absinthe/math/demonaslot. I'll try to see if there's anything I feel like responding to tomorrow when I am less tired
2187 clarifies some things, thank you. i also appreciate the responses to some of that older stuff, kitty.
really sucks if demonaslot
was
town because i don't see myself voting Isis anymore, am curious about the replacement but it's a little easy to call that a scumslot at this point.
energy is super low.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
In post 2021, MathBlade wrote:Catboi isn’t screaming “Math is scum” constantly. So if Catboi is the town there’s a possibility they will see I am town and you’re the scum.
So, uh, for the record, the slot you are in replaced out because I got in a huge shitfight with its prior occupant because I had been mostly convinced he was scum. I'm not saying I'm giving you no chance, but. My inclination was toward voting skitter before that happened. You can figure out whether you're okay with that or not.
Awesome. /s
No wonder the game state is so tilted.
Then it sounds like we’ve got an uphill battle on both sides not just Skitter’s.
Because I know one of you is wrong.
I mean, if you're town you don't need to have one of us vote for you to win.
No I literally do.
My skills are well…bad. The best chance we have to win is if one of you votes me.
I do not trust myself to reach the right conclusion.
Okay, but this is literally identical to the scum win condition
It’s not though?
Not trusting myself to make the right read is not the same as needing a town player to vote me because I am scum. (I am not scum that’s an explanation)
Otherwise you’d be arguing Skitter is doing the same when I literally explained why I would vote myself first. Your response of “Well Skitter is a social read”, because let’s be real here that’s what you’re saying, is just that you TR Skitter. Ergo your argument is circular.
It feels like to me you are saying “Math and Skitter did a thing but I townread Skitter because leprechauns”
There’s no actual explanation here
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
i townread Prism before the repout so that's colouring my Math read now. could be wrong there, in spite of my misgivings about skitter i'd call her town before i'd confidently call kitty town, but i'm at the stage of the game where i expect all of my reads to be wrong because i think i've been wrong on Isis.
:>
but also crying inside. you know.
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
In post 2188, skitter30 wrote:why don't you think i'm playing to the scum wincon again?
I guess the way you went about things didn't feel like you were? I don't have a problem with saying "I'd prefer to be voted" because that's true for both alignments but you seemed to be making attempts to discern alignments still and while that can be bluffed (and is necessary for playing this properly and looking the part), I didn't think what you were saying looked fake. I could be wrong but that's always a possibility in this game, this is just what it feels like to me.
Mathblade's approach here is flagrantly unsubtle if scum, but also if he is scum, what else could he do?If I'm town who has promised to vote correctly he can't take an actual game action because he has toeither accept you as town or say he thinks I'm town who's making a mistake.
I mean like this literally says nothing.
Replace me and Skitter in this post you get the same argument.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
In post 2151, skitter30 wrote:Math: am i scum in the keep to you rn?
If you had to vote someone rn would it be catboi?
As of this second, yes and yes.
But I don’t plan on voting as established earlier. It’d be extremely antitown to do so when Catboi should be the one voting.
...because?
The majority of the game external to myself correctly townreads me, so the town player of the two of you should be voting me rather than the other way around. Town shouldn’t be making a guess, the scummiest player should be forced to vote. This was already explained by Coral I believe earlier where she didn’t want her TRs to vote.
ScumBlade's eloquent performance left me utterly disoriented, debased, depraved and sent me spiraling into a horrific murky abyss with emotional turmoil and immense despair as my only companions until slowly I suffocate in my own gloom, surrounded by failure. I will never recover. -- Zachstralkita about Mini 1841 GTKAS -- MathBlade
i want to flip the Gate. what do you want to do, Tempest?
"Sibling," Farkran asked, starting slowly.
"The CORE is full of lasers, and Chemist1422's entire existence depends on her eye. If she looks into a laser, she will almost certainly die. Did you think about that?"
"Oh yes, my brother. I love thinking about that."
