TM 2023 | Open: PYP S_TM | Endgame

[Lady Lambdadelta]

you opened a fuckin' box b'ys lol

show a CRUMB of interest in my culture i'll talk yer fuckin ear off right?

[Ythan]

I call my cat Baby B'y for short. Or it might be 'by I'll have to think about it.

[Cephrir]

I wonder why alisae expressed this need to interact with me in real time, gave me an assignment and did nothing further with me

Sure, I dipped after writing that post about gimli, but e didn't know that

[Alisae]

I wonder why alisae expressed this need to interact with me in real time, gave me an assignment and did nothing further with me

Sure, I dipped after writing that post about gimli, but e didn't know that

I probably should have said something but tbh when I first read that post, my mind literally went blank I have no idea how to engage with it

[Alisae]

I also thought you would do more than 1 ISO but that's rude I will try again

[Cephrir]

I wanted to play video games more than I wanted to do this

And now I want to sleep more than I want to do this

[Alisae]

369 expresses the concern that they're using a lot of words.
762 expresses the concern that they would have used more words.
I thought that was interesting when reading that post because the two ideas contradict each other.

tbh I wanna see how Gimli engages with that and how other players engage with that.

I'm still just mind fucking empty though when reading that. I would normally fos that post if literally any other players posted it in a different context but in this context when I said "give it your best shot" and you did I don't really want to.

[Alisae]

I wanted to play video games more than I wanted to do this

And now I want to sleep more than I want to do this

lmao ya that was rude to bait you.

[Alisae]

Sorry I just did not know at all how to engage with a post like that

[Alisae]

as bella proceeds to point out, the tone of this post is... like, from mars, comically pockety. hi, (user)! i like your thoughts because [reason 1] and [reason 2]. please do not vote me out, friend!

Like I think it's just me but tone reads I feel like don't really resonate with me. This isn't really for me tho it's for you and if you feel like that's what works for you you should like do that.

I just don't really know how to engage with it.

fwiw I think it's still productive that you made a post like that because it advances the game and that's good! I think it's better

[Datisi]

I'll let you choose. Who do you think needs to read the other more right now? If me to you, try and spot what I see and I'll confirm or deny.

okay, i have a coffee and did some thinking, here's my guess for what it could be:

imaginality is trying to play both sides of lld v mith, without the accompanying thought process that would be there if they were a townie doing that.

in 694, they're expressing a scumread on mith; but within the post, they make it explicitly known that they scumread you as well. or like, at least agree with you being voted. similar thing in 695. the problem is, if a townie were to be making such reads, they would make *some* mention about how likely is this to be a bus. or they would more explicitly say "i don't feel these are scum together, one of them is". in 964, they did mention that they feel it's scum-mith looking for an easy vote to make, so the natural conclusion would be that this is currently scum-him town-you, but. that's not what they say, they just continue to shade you in 695. it feels like trying to keep the option of you flipping open, either today or after mith flips green, without explicitly saying something like "lole there's scum between these two let's just vote both of them out"; alternatively, without saying "lol they bussing" because that falls apart as soon as one of you flips, and is more likely to get backlash from both of you.

[imaginality]

Hey good timing! That's what I've been mulling over today. Is one of my scumreads on the two of them wrong, or are they bussing?

Currently my position is... I still back my reads. My gut was good the last game I was in, I think I'm on the right track here too.

However, I actually don't see it as a bus as such precisely because mith pulled his punches a bit. Yes mith's voting LLD but like in the post I quoted previously I feel like town!mith would be pushing the LLD wagon more.

So I think it's like someone proposed earlier in the game with Ythan - distancing more than bussing, because of being confident that LLD can avoid being today's lim.

However if one of my reads is wrong it's more likely the one on mith since his recent posts read okay to me and I know I do sometimes tunnel on particular points on people.

On that basis:

VOTE: Unvote
VOTE: Lady Lambdadelta

I also have something to say about a recent post of LLD's. Will get onto that shortly

[Datisi]

to be clear, when i say "bus", i mean any kind of antagonism from one scumbuddy to another, regardless of whether the intent is to get them flipped or to just slap each other and distance

[Alisae]

I missed these I think it's worth talking about.

It also sort of became apparent that Ali was full of it in that sense when e started asking for my reads and then pulled a Ceph/Mith/someone forget who scumteam out of eir ass to fit our conversation.

......

Am I wrong?

Several of those names are on the list of 9 townies you presented prior to our conversation.

the INSANT you were like "oh yeah no, this is a possible team too" I was like "okay so Ali doesn't have a strong belief in this at all, so why is Ali team solving like this without a strong belief?"

However, this is true. You apparently tr me but also I'm scum with ceph? (@alisae, who I typed into ari at 3am, I am legit sorry)

Individually ya, but if LLD is town, who are the people pushing her as wolf? A team of You-Ceph-Mith is the first thing that comes to mind when I think of something like that. It's something that was in the back of my mind. If LLD and I are both town, this is something that made sense. If I ever thought LLD was town, this was going to be the next thing I would explore.

ig it's fine for you to be disturbed by this since it felt sudden but this is just me thinking ahead.

--

....I do agree with lld that you are ridiculously hard to read: you post takes that almost come from my brain and then suddenly do something Weasel-y and my voting finger gets twitchy

Just to slightly contradict what I just said, I'm not sure if scum are 'in control' of the thread - I think a lot of the people posting are town, which is why we feel a bit lost. But yeah, they coiodbe done better than rand in the draft and are sitting pretty and quiet waiting to elim a townie and get to the fun night actions

I think you just don't understand what I'm doing and you're not thinking from my perspective!
This is why I think "ok it's fine for Bella to be disturbed about this" because I think you just see it and go "??????" but there is method to my madness.

I wrote a huge post about how I feel like by this point in time I've obvtowned myself but it took me like 2 hours to write and its like 4am and tbh I tired myself out and lost interest so I'm just going to spare you from that. It's on my notepad though ig /shrug
But like, I don't think I'm ridiculously hard to read though. I don't think I'm the miracle worker that can do anything.
If anything I'm the person who is the most willing to get their hands dirty and be slimy to get what they want.

I also feel like there's a lot of things I just wouldn't do if I was a wolf.
I don't need to TR imaginality for TRing Rad early.
I don't need to TR Marashu at all.
I don't need to pick a fight with Datisi because he TRs me.
I don't need to call Cephrir town and try to encourage him to solve when he has a bunch of people as idk.

[imaginality]

LLD Titus asks if you have any quick thoughts for her to stew on.

mmm

I think scum out drafted us. It's.... a crazy thought, and requires the backwards logic my brain goes through so even beginning to explain why will... take a moment and probably not be understood but

I get the sense, this game, Scum are sitting more comfortably than not. It may not be true for the whole team, but it's true for... 2 of them at least I think. Mid to high on numbers, got roles they wanted, lots of info and probably townread either middling or widely.

It explains a lot of the feelign I'm getting in this day which is... a feeling like there is a want to make me a default elimination and there's a lot of status quo gumming of the thread to just.... end on something that will break the spirit of the game.

I think this might be coming from an informed perspective.

I think LLD may be planting this to prepare the ground for bussing a buddy D2 or beyond.

If LLD believes this as town I would have expected her to go on to question her rule about not limming in the top 4 but she doesn't seem to have.

I agree with LLD on this point that scum probably did well in the draft though. I think if multiple scum were say 6-10 in the order there'd be more agreement around focusing on limming in the 6s specifically, as LLD proposed, compared to limming 'lower in the draft' in general. I can definitely see how mafia might be playing quietly here to let town drive a mislim on D1 if two or more of them are in the top 4 or so.

Also, having thought about it a little more myself, I think there's also actually a possible advantage to limming top 4 today that might not apply tomorrow.

[imaginality]

to be clear, when i say "bus", i mean any kind of antagonism from one scumbuddy to another, regardless of whether the intent is to get them flipped or to just slap each other and distance

Fair enough, though that seems potentially confusing - the distinction between bussing as 'aiming to get your buddy limmed' and distancing as 'aiming to appear unaligned with your buddy' is a useful one. If bussing can encompass both meanings then how do you refer to the first one specifically?

[Datisi]

sometimes i use bussing as both of those, sometimes as just trying to flip. if it's unclear from context u try to say distancing, but if i feel it's clear from context my brain just defaults to bus for both. i should probably not do that ..

[Datisi]

i think i have an idea of what lld might be doing there and it might be better to just let her do her own thing for a lil bit here?

imaginality, do you have a specific target in mind for "it might be advantageous to yeet in top 4"?

[imaginality]

I think it's obvious who I'm most suspicious of from the top 4?

Of the others, I can see why mith pushed Gimli about 648 but Gimli's explanation in 750 reads plausibly to me. To my mind if I were to be suspicious of Gimli it would be more for the "high draft scum" theory since Gimli doesn't seem to be trying to make many waves which fits the 'scum letting town decide who to mislim' scenario. So what he's not doing rather than what he is doing.

Staeg, I get town vibes from how they interacted with Alisae.

Ythan... I have been lazily trusting other people's town reads. There was a big gap between the initial stoush and the more recent posts which are less Ythan and more Titus to some extent.

Anyhow my point is not "we should lim this specific person" but "we shouldn't hold off from pushing and even limming someone today just because they're top 4."

[Datisi]

oh right mith is in top 4 i forgor (no i did not go check who is in top 4 before asking that, thank you for asking)

my own argument about your positions about lld mith being weird was just me nitpicking things for lld, but i feel like i'm starting to believe it. especially as like. i dunno. i feel like you went from not acknowledging busses/distancing btwn lld and mith, to trying to overcompensate for that once you got called out by pointing out associates

[Gimli]

Of the others, I can see why mith pushed Gimli about 648 but Gimli's explanation in 750 reads plausibly to me. To my mind if I were to be suspicious of Gimli it would be more for the "high draft scum" theory since Gimli doesn't seem to be trying to make many waves which fits the 'scum letting town decide who to mislim' scenario. So what he's not doing rather than what he is doing.

I think the latter is a fair description of my play in this game re: not making waves

my town game is on and off, I suppose you've seen me trying hard and leading, but there are plenty games where I just kind of potato throughout until I find something I care about and start pushing that. I don't have a scumgame where I didn't try hard though, other than buisness company game where I was a late replacement and stalled, cause I know to avoid the situation where I'll be pushed for not being around.

either way I'll try working a POE in the next few days, rn my reads are looking like this:

Alisae - town
Bellaphant - town
Cephrir - idk
Datisi - town?
Gimli - gimli
imaginality - town? I liked his opening and I like the way he is questioning me
Lady Lambdadelta - idk
Marashu - scum?
Menalque - town?
mith - town?
Rad - idk
Staeg - idk
Ythan - idk

[imaginality]

oh right mith is in top 4 i forgor (no i did not go check who is in top 4 before asking that, thank you for asking)

my own argument about your positions about lld mith being weird was just me nitpicking things for lld, but i feel like i'm starting to believe it. especially as like. i dunno. i feel like you went from not acknowledging busses/distancing btwn lld and mith, to trying to overcompensate for that once you got called out by pointing out associates

I mean, that's fair. Like I said, I was mulling it over today but for you going just from my posts in thread I can see why it looks like a sharper shift.

[Gimli]

Spoiler: cephrir's casing me

welcome to cephy's FakeReads!

the game show where we post complete and utter bullshit (proving that i could fake some reads if i wanted to) and then see if I buy any of the bullshit I just made up (this is the "spin for scumhunting usage")

me presenting it in this fun way is scummy, but if i also write this meandering self-aware clause, it's not scummy anymore

if anything aren't the 6s less likely to be scum cause no coordination? like scum wouldn't pile on the number 6

no that's

again scum don't know what numbers town pick

so if scum split into 3 different numbers the odds that one of those numbers hits a triple up is much higher than any townie hitting it, by 3:1. Coincidentally about the historical odds that groups of 3+ same number pickers contain at least 1 scum.

that just makes 6 the number people picked the most.

otoh the 6 is also the number that contains more townies, cause if scum splitted then its 2/3 or 3/3 town in it

while lets say a number that was only picked once has 0 or 1 scum and 0 or 1 town

you're just discovering 6 was the most picked number in the game and 'figuring out' its more likely to contain scum while forgetting its just the one with the most *PEOPLE* in it

given last time you were extremely loud like this about wanting to control things you were scum, and this is clearly not how to scumhunt, I'll go ahead and ignore it from this point forward since I just explained why I think its wrong

so, okay

any leans on anyone, LLD?

i think this takes way more words to arrive at an obvious point than necessary, as if to make it look more like a thought process

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

as bella proceeds to point out, the tone of this post is... like, from mars, comically pockety. hi, (user)! i like your thoughts because [reason 1] and [reason 2]. please do not vote me out, friend!

The other issue is, if people are impressionable, like me, the only take away they are gonna have is that the 'reasonable' responses (me, imag, alissy, gimli) are town, and those aren't even particularly good takes!

hi bella! I like this post cause it pushes what I'm sure you think is a protown agenda, while exposing reads you're probably making in the spot understanding the reasoning for it is weak and the threadstate isn't conducive to scumhunting.

Hi! Did AI write this post? It feels very expository but also like it's trying hard to be friendly! While being slightly passive aggressive

damn bella

well I haven't had my coffee yet

an attempt to nail casual levity

"what im sure you think is a protown agenda" is just so on the nose!

I think that sentence came out a certain way that wasn't my intention, ofc I agree with your thoughts re:protown, but trying to act protown isn't towny per se, but its a suitable background on how you're giving no weight to your impressionable reads because you made those reads for real, which is the specific part I lean town on

perhaps the worst part of this whole exchange wherein our hero, in a desperate effort to avoid sounding like an AI again, contorts himself into this word salad ass post

tentatively townleaning on imaginality's entrance, it mirrors my thoughts on stuff while making a much more proper post than I could

I guess I like datisi's effort in reading the thing through. I won't, at least not for now

what is townie about "a more proper post"? is that just buddying?

I can feel klick's townyness through bella its so glorious

this post is crafted to sound town-excited

ashu the hardest ever since he voted you, cause I thought datisi's case in that page was pretty unconvincing, or at least I felt like datisi was noticing things that aren't indicative of alignment and calling them scummy. marashu didn't explain why he voted there but since dats' case was on the same page it makes sense for it to be sheeping him which I find suspicious cause IDT many townies would read through those points and agree with them. I don't like that marashu didn't return to the game yet while promising to do so, so I'm fine with where my vote is.

marashu did not vote until after gimli voted for marashu - this is revisionist

I'm suspecting marashu the hardest ever since he voted you, cause I thought datisi's case in that page was pretty unconvincing, or at least I felt like datisi was noticing things that aren't indicative of alignment and calling them scummy. marashu didn't explain why he voted there but since dats' case was on the same page it makes sense for it to be sheeping him which I find suspicious cause IDT many townies would read through those points and agree with them. I don't like that marashu didn't return to the game yet while promising to do so, so I'm fine with where my vote is.

Gimli, why did you originally vote for Marashu?

he quoted the same post datisi used to SR Rad (thats 127 and 128, asking lld to calm down and move on) that's NAI or even a little towny from rad imo so I don't agree with how datisi read the situation. I don't scumread datisi for it cause maybe he believes in it, but for marashu to drop in the game and sheep what imo is not a good case, I didn't feel good about that. it feels like marashu just picked the first reasonable looking push in front of him and pushed that, so I voted him.

mith sees the point i made above and gimli here catches on to his mistake but the backpedal isn't that compelling. i disagree with the characterization that marashu was "sheeping" datisi's case by agreeing with a single line from it for one post.

Gimli, why did you originally vote for Marashu?

he quoted the same post datisi used to SR Rad (thats 127 and 128, asking lld to calm down and move on) that's NAI or even a little towny from rad imo so I don't agree with how datisi read the situation. I don't scumread datisi for it cause maybe he believes in it, but for marashu to drop in the game and sheep what imo is not a good case, I didn't feel good about that. it feels like marashu just picked the first reasonable looking push in front of him and pushed that, so I voted him.

I was trying to get a feel for why kuribo was suspecting Gimli, and one of the things mentioned was that vote. So I looked at the context here.

408 - Datisi votes for Rad (giving 127 as one reason, followed by some more stuff)
409-412 - Marashu enters the game. 411 is the post where Marashu gives 127, mirroring Datisi.
Otherwise, the spacing and sequence of quotes suggests that Marashu is legitimately catching up on the game at this point, and I assume this is null unless someone can point to some specific meta on this either way. I'm not sure I buy the idea that Marashu was quoting 127 solely because Datisi did, though.
413 - Gimli votes Marashu (with no explanation until 648)
414 - Marashu votes Rad
415 - Staeg enters the game, gives three scum reads (Datisi, Marashu, implosionality) votes Marashu. "Gimli has the right idea" is very strange here, given that Gimli has not at this point explained the vote in 413 and that two others (LLD and Alisae) are on the wagon at this point.

648, Gimli explains the scumread (in response to Rad) as "suspecting marashu the hardest ever since he voted on you" and that "marashu didn't explain why he voted there".

The gap between 413 and 648 coupled with the lack of consistency (Marashu's vote on Rad being after Gimli's vote) rubs me the wrong way.

Anyone more familiar with Gimli's play have any comment on this? (Or Staeg's 415, for that matter.)

I guess that's inconsistent in terms of what narrative I presented in the thread but I voted marashu for the movement he was making towards rad with posts that came before mine, obviously. after I voted he made another post with that vote, ignored that I voted him and stormed off, which strengthed my scumread. I didn't explain cause I haven't verbalized what I thought at that point, just thought marashu's push was kinda scummy

I think this is a lot over one vote though

"i voted marashu for the movement he weas making towards rad with posts that came before mine" is again unfair - marashu had made only one post on the subject and it's hardly "movement towards" anything

even the revised version is uncompelling

I don't have thoughts on staeg

update this to an actuall null read. I think his posts are correct enough but he hasn't shown anything alignment indicative thus far

i guess scum might have posted more thought process here for town points

so, do i buy any of the bullshit i just posted? actually, i do a little.

thanks for playing FakeReads!

this is bad, ceph, are you scum? I have never seen you do anything even close to such filler scumcase

so your first point, that I used more words than necessary, isn't true and I'm surprised you used it to push me. I used less words than everyone else that came after me and said what I said to LLD. I was breaking down the math for it in a dumb way cause I'm a dumb man, but how is it an excessive? also I don't think the thought process behind that post is alignment indicative, so how would it be something that 'looks like thought process' when it has to be literal thought process regardless of my rand? what are you suggesting, that I'm making up a thought process as to why a mechanical idea is wrong when that thought process is specifically NAI and something both town and scum could conclude exactly the same way with exactly the same reasoning?

well I don't appreaciate being called wordsalady either that made me sad but I understand my posts come off like that as well so whatever

re: imaginality's post. of course they're more proper posts than mine since mine are word salad. either way it was a post with clear ideas and easy to read which reflected my thoughts better than if I were to explain those same thoughts.

[Gimli]

ceph's ISO is a lot of nothing

[Gimli]

I learned my lesson about assuming LLD emotions = town so I will not be doing that this game

this post looks like cephrir feels like he needs to take a position in the LLD/ali/ythan kerfuffle but has nothing to contribute to it so he goes around talking about numbers and then throws in a reason that just means he'll keep null on the LLD slot

I feel like his ISO looks scattered and like he is bringing up random things, doesn't feel like ceph has reads progressions on slots and a lot of his posts are pointless and a lot of his pointless posts are self aware, like he is always joking about the seriousness of what he is doing. not only with the only scumcase he made itg but also with other leans, like even his datisi townread is laid out in a way that feels so thin and like he is ready to turn it upside down at any moment, saying dats is a townread cause he'd be posting better if scum.

I do share the sentiment of this:

I wanted to play video games more than I wanted to do this

And now I want to sleep more than I want to do this

but alongside everything else it feels like a decoy so he can keep taking it easy and not committing to anything