Weird Dreams Mafia Redux [Finished]

[Radical Rat]

My main stipulation is Not Ranger, and not Rauth. I'd also still prefer we boot out Drew, but no one else really seems to care so I'm probably not getting my way on that one

i agree on not rauth and i can understand not ranger. would you consider re-voting your old proposal (not sure whose proposal it is now) of the 5 i mentioned + de70 and titus?

Yeah, I can do that. I believe it should be yours unless I missed you switch earlier.

HURT: Abnegation

VOTE: Merlyn

Currently though what's your reason for voting Merlyn. As much as I don't care for her ignoring my question and posts I'm not quite at the point of casting a vote that way. Is it more or less a pressure vote?

I thought the attempt to steer The Drew Incident onto Abnegation was a bit odd, and she seemed weirdly deferential to me during that discussion. I'd tossed it on the deal with it later pile, and now the wagon has momentum and my more preferred wagon doesn't, so later has become now.

[DragonEater70]

Now tell me is this analysis "easy", "digging unnecessary" or "anti town"?

It is easy, digging unnecessarily, and anti-town.

It's a meaningless nothingness push, and still contains the same logical flaws previously provided.

If I am scum, then you don't have an explanation for the signaling. One could exist, yet the burden is on you the accuser to bring forward evidence I did, because I've stated it was me having fun.

If I am a traitor, then it was blatant signaling, in a way you've consistently said you believe I'm not. If I were, it would imply Doctor Drew as scum, leaving him the focus, yet you didn't pursue him; you kept your focus on me.

If I am a 3p, then I would be a 3p who is somehow tied to Doctor Drew. If so, then Doctor Drew should still be the focus, yet you didn't pursue him.

If I am town, and I am, then the entire pursuit is pointless and meaningless. The goal of town is to eliminate all threats to them. Regardless of how "weird", regardless of how "strange", the alleged signaling is, if I am town (and I am), then focusing on the supposed signaling is

not furthering the town win condition

.

You've written a bunch of words to justify yourself. Yet none which address the fundamental issue with the push being you're not following it to any of its possible logical conclusions.

I've said I'm town.
I've said I've no information on Doctor Drew whatsoever, and he isn't in my role PM at all.
I've said my puns were me having fun.

You've been focused on this since getting into the game, yet given both my statements and the lack of following the points to the logical conclusion, your push provides no tangible benefit. It's a distraction. It gives something for you to easily appear to give effort to, because putting time into a nothingness point is easy.

You and me both know that no action or reaction in a mafia game is a town or scum tell on its own. everyone can fake anything or be real about anything at any time. Its about seeing the mind set that's behind those actions and reactions and to see if its used for solve or not.

Yeah, sure is. I've rather extensively laid out why I believe your mindset is scum trying to appear town.

Your stated reads are largely consensus reads. Your 'insights' into various topics are easy to give without actually providing a tangible benefit to the town. You're not following your pushes to their logical conclusions. You're demonstrating knowledge you shouldn't have. You're continuing to push the same narrative, despite posts from multiple users calling your reasoning out and pointing out the flaws within.

Subjectively, I know you're not furthering the town's wincon with your Ranger push, yet even objectively the flaws within demonstrate even not knowing my alignment, your push on me

just isn't good

. Also subjectively, I've seen the pushes you've made as town and I always understood why you made them, because there was logic being followed to an ultimate conclusion; here, that's absent.

I'd say that demonstrates your actions are more likely from scum.

Okay it was actually earlier. Anyhow I really like this post and although Ranger was mostly null until now, this posts single-handedly places her in medium-high tier townread. I mean it's just really townie. This is exactly the kind of posts scum just DON'T want to see posted in the game.

While I vehemently object to the argument of emulation as it looks like an excuse to deny meta

Let me clarify.

Every* scum player has at least some passing awareness of their play as town.
Every* scum player has at least some passing effort to mimic their townplay.
Every* scum player still has clear town/scum metas, despite the above. Because,
Every* scum player's efforts to mimic their townplay is imperfect, for varying reasons.

*not actually every; this is me simplifying to make a point clearer

My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is not

despite

meta.
My belief in Kyoko Kirigiri being scum is in part

because

of meta.

My point is Kyoko Kirigiri's trying to mimic her towngame. As this is an accusation, the burden of proving it's an imitation and not the real thing does lie on me.

I've provided why I believe it's the imitation and not the real thing. The consensus takes, along with not following logic to its natural conclusion, and making a push which provides no benefit to the town. Kyoko Kirigiri's content is one gigantic effort to appear town, yet is giving nothing demonstrating actual town thought.

Okay now I really need to do an ISO of Kyoko because what you are saying is VERY interesting. I'll be back later on today for the ISO (because I assume it will take a while).

[Radical Rat]

I could do Snivy?

StD's ISO being a big nothingburger is how you know he's Town.

We can also do snivy

Why Snivy?

Basically what Python said. I just went down the list and picked someone I didn't have an immediate "No" reaction to

[Random Nurse]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy

[Radical Rat]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

[DragonEater70]

but I am going to catch up on the last 5 pages.

You picked the worst 5 pages to catch up on lol.

For setup stuff Drew was forcibly placed into the nightmare by a day ability, Drew claims to have nothing to do with it, Ranger claims to be town, and Ranger does not have any information on Drew from her role PM

Thanks

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

That game just finished so can you talk more about this now?

That, by the way, was my first scumgame on this site and a nightmare.

Also I've replaced out due to lack of time and then thought it was a good idea to join another game and here I am, not having posted for several days due to the same luck of time I had before.

[DragonEater70]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

We can vote for 6, since DD is already in (and would count as one of the seven).

[Random Nurse]

This game is big and reads lists just don't work for me, so I'll say what I'm noticing now.

Ranger feels Town to me due to having that large fight with Kyoko. Kyoko I slightly TR due to their level of engagement as well, but the game is still way too young. Merlyn ignores questions or posts directed towards her, and then apparently assumes there must be Scum on her wagon if a handful of people vote her; I've never played with her or most of you before so I don't know her meta. I do get the feeling Katy could be Town, asking those questions. I don't really feel too strongly about the other players currently though. I could see usesPython, Rat, and Snivy as possible Town. As for the rest I'm not sure because it does feel like most of my posts have been ignored and to be honest I DO want players to actually start engaging with me instead of making me feel invisible.

[Radical Rat]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

We can vote for 6, since DD is already in (and would count as one of the seven).

Sure, but Nurse only had 5, which makes the total 6.

[Random Nurse]

We really should be voting for at least seven people, as that's the requirement for Normal Invention, which most everyone agrees is the best option

That's fine. I don't really have a strong read on other players but I think I'll throw in Kyoko and Katy since I've got some feeling on them so far.

[Random Nurse]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy, Kyoko, Katy

[Ranger]

Reminder; I'm V/LA until Tuesday. You're unlikely to hear from me today, although tomorrow I may be able to catch up.

As promised,
VOTE: Merlyn

I'll need a full catch-up honestly to properly sort {Flea, DragonEater, Aureal, Merlyn, Kyoko Kirigiri, Titus} among others (these are the main ones I saw a need for sorting). Struggling to rn from skim.

[Ranger]

^Also Random Nurse

[Radical Rat]

This game is big and reads lists just don't work for me, so I'll say what I'm noticing now.

Ranger feels Town to me due to having that large fight with Kyoko. Kyoko I slightly TR due to their level of engagement as well, but the game is still way too young. Merlyn ignores questions or posts directed towards her, and then apparently assumes there must be Scum on her wagon if a handful of people vote her; I've never played with her or most of you before so I don't know her meta. I do get the feeling Katy could be Town, asking those questions. I don't really feel too strongly about the other players currently though. I could see usesPython, Rat, and Snivy as possible Town. As for the rest I'm not sure because it does feel like most of my posts have been ignored and to be honest I DO want players to actually start engaging with me instead of making me feel invisible.

Is there anyone you think might be scum so far?

[usesPython]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy, Kyoko, Katy

Drew has been forcibly placed into the Nightmare so you're voting for an 8 person Nightmare here

[Random Nurse]

This game is big and reads lists just don't work for me, so I'll say what I'm noticing now.

Ranger feels Town to me due to having that large fight with Kyoko. Kyoko I slightly TR due to their level of engagement as well, but the game is still way too young. Merlyn ignores questions or posts directed towards her, and then apparently assumes there must be Scum on her wagon if a handful of people vote her; I've never played with her or most of you before so I don't know her meta. I do get the feeling Katy could be Town, asking those questions. I don't really feel too strongly about the other players currently though. I could see usesPython, Rat, and Snivy as possible Town. As for the rest I'm not sure because it does feel like most of my posts have been ignored and to be honest I DO want players to actually start engaging with me instead of making me feel invisible.

Is there anyone you think might be scum so far?

That's a tough question because all I have are gut vibes and gutreads. It's Day 1; I don't have any tangible evidence to start making associations. Typically once Day 2 begins is when I start to find my feet and can better make state of the game terrain. So currently, no, not really. Chances are high that someone I'm reading as Town could be Scum, but that's not saying much. I do have prior experience with Titus on my main, so that one does kind of scare me because it's really hard to tell Scum/Town Titus apart. I'm half-tempted to pressure Merlyn over ignoring my posts but I'm thinking I'd just be spinning me wheels.

[Random Nurse]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy, Kyoko, Katy

Drew has been forcibly placed into the Nightmare so you're voting for an 8 person Nightmare here

So the optimal number is 7?

[Random Nurse]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy, Katy

[usesPython]

HEAL: Prior vote

HURT: Ranger, Radical Rat, usesPython, Titus, CamelcasedSnivy, Kyoko, Katy

Drew has been forcibly placed into the Nightmare so you're voting for an 8 person Nightmare here

So the optimal number is 7?

The optimal nightmare action is to hand out a Bulletproof Innocent Child Invention with the Normal Invention action, to do that we need at least 7 people in the nightmare. There's also likely to be a role that knows how many non-Town were in the nightmare (since there was one last game) so being accurate could result in a large amount of green checks. Most likely way to get that pure nightmare though is to put in as little people as possible so either a 7 person nightmare or an 8 person nightmare + a drew lim to bring it to a 7 person nightmare is the optimal way to go around nightmare votes rn

[Random Nurse]

Side note, just in case you guys are wondering, I sleep during the day so am unavailable from 1000 to 0500.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Feeling much better about Random Nurse after recent activity and 1315.

[KatyKimFanClub]

Dragon played this way in Newbie 2125 and rolled scum.

That game just finished so can you talk more about this now?

Scum dragon in that game had a very similar gameplay pattern to the start of Day 1.
1) Half-hearted pushes on people (in this case bianco and abnegation) which don't really seem to be for reactions but rather just for interaction's sake
2) Complete inactivity as some attention was drawn (mitigating factors this game like the site breaking for a day)

[Titus]

I am due to be released today with instructions.

[Radical Rat]

I am due to be released today with instructions.

Glad to hear it, hope the recovery's quick and easy

[Korina]

Lorem