Mini 2308 | Blood over Utopia | Utopia fell.

[Infinity 324]

VOTE: Infinity 324

why?

VOTE: flavor a few more pages to read but this is where we are at this point. reeally hesitant to vote flavor on d1 since he's way more likely to actually get limmed d1 if he's town, but i don't think that's a good enough reason to not vote our scumread, especially since we townread all the other wagons to some extent. also willing to compromise on snivy.

[Infinity 324]

oh flavor has no votes anymore :/

VOTE: snivy

[meowmeow]

i got my laptop back yippee

@fl yes, i do see why you scumread her, but we just have a very different approach to scumhunting. i'm well aware that we've been townreading a lot of level 0 scummy things, and we do need to decide on a lim pretty soon. we just have a feeling that people like you, meow, or devil are scum controlling the narrative and it's part of why we don't love the biggest wagons right now. we'll finish catching up and decide on a vote tomorrow.

What did you mean by those people are controlling the narrative? I feel like devil & FL have been pushing in different directions from meow

one or more scum players is having an outsized influence on the narrative is probably a better way to put it.

i really don't like this post - it's such a specific feeling for something so like, nebulous. it's at least true most people seem to townread me, but the idea i have control over some kind of narrative feels weird; i was opposed to the three leading wagons for most of the game, including when infinity made this post. like, the leading wagons are snivy, marci and cakez, none of whom i have ever voted or pushed for - why would a feeling i might be pushing a pro-scum narrative make you want to vote for them less, or not more? snivy voted penguin, but for his own reasons; i've never particularly felt like my opinions are being listened to or followed, except a bit of mechanics stuff. similarly, devil has a lot of posts - most of which are mechanic-y or shitpost-y - i don't think they have a lot of control over the game at all. fl could conceivably be driving the narrative, because he's loud and the thread kind of follows what he does, but neither of the other reads make any sense to me and i'm really not sure how you get a 'feeling' for something which is such, like, an arbritary and complex concept, or how you get to that feeling in the first place?

i think roden is probably my top townread

ooh interesting why

i think he's the only slot where there's nothing that would raise my eyebrows. i think all his posting makes sense coming from a townie mindset, and he's engaging with his townreads in a way i like. to be more specific - i liked him having me in his null pile, because i think some people were townreading me too easily at that point and him being like "i haven't had a moment where they did anything super town" just seemed, like, appropriately skeptical as i expect town to be, whereas scum aren't as paranoid since they already know everything. and his interactions with me felt good, he seemd to take what i said into account, like when i said i suspect aureal he went back to iso her again. i also thought his interactions w/ cakez feel pretty sorty

i don't understand why we're compromising on someone who has just replaced in and is very active, even if you don't think i obvtowned already it will probably be easy to read me at some point

why do you think it'll be easy to read you? i remember reading a game a while back in which you were scum with meg in trust fall and won p easily, i wasn't under the impression your alignment would become super obvious at any point

[SirCakez]

I actually don't think Infinitys entrance is looking that town
They feel agenda-y

[SirCakez]

i think we're actually choosing sacrifice, it should be clear at some point and then everyone can just vote for it so they can get a say. our sac vote is mostly symbolic atm.

Ex this post

[SirCakez]

I still think FL is scummy I don't really buy his excuse that he was faking his entire interaction with me as bait for scum - that was not even close to the impression I got from those posts

Well that’s where the misunderstanding is.

I wasn’t faking it at all, it was just a secondary reasoning.

[SirCakez]

Not loving Infinity’s entrance.

Seems agenda - y

Yo wtf

[SirCakez]

how strongly would you say you townread engagement normally?

also what's your read on flavor leaf / cakes rn?

I READ BASED OFF OF COLD HARD VIBES
engagement? does not matter IT DEPENDS ALL ON THE VIBES OF WHAT YOU SAY YKNOW YKNOW SOMETIMES THOSE VIBES JUST AINT GOOD! i dont even remember what i was thinking at the time of the post youre quoting! but i think it was just that nothing seemed ulterior motives or some shit like that.

i think honestly out of flavor leaf and cakez i would rather go flavor leaf because i think theyre bsing their posts, and the switch from cakez onto me just felt like too fast of a switch. but also i like my cakez wagon because it pisses so many people off. i dont know if i even fully trust that flavor leaf is scum or if im blinded there and theyre just an idiot! but i think theyll be in for a fun surprise later on!
cakez has been meh, it hasnt really improved too much in my opinion.

any other questions?

I think I TR this post and Marcis general tunnel on me (while bad) reads like a townie move to me - seems like she is actually convinced and has conviction, I feel like a scum Marci would have bailed by now or at least fabricated some more arguments besides what she's been sitting on all game

[Infinity 324]

i'm really not sure how you get a 'feeling' for something which is such, like, an arbritary and complex concept, or how you get to that feeling in the first place?

honestly, idk. it's just a sense of uneasiness in our gut about the gamestate. it's not the first time we've felt this way about a game. the point about you not pushing any of the lead wagons is well-taken; you're the one that feels least scummy to us. i do think that simply being around a bunch does lead you to have influence eventually (i think devil has a bit more influence than you're giving them credit for), but could just be wrong about this.

we tend to lose motivation as scum as the game goes on. it doesn't happen in every game, and not saying we have a super weak scumgame or anything, but generally more active players get more readable as the game goes on and i do think that applies to us.

[meowmeow]

if you mean you've like said this before as town, could i get a link to that

[Infinity 324]

here (and 1331 a little further down)

[Infinity 324]

i think we're actually choosing sacrifice, it should be clear at some point and then everyone can just vote for it so they can get a say. our sac vote is mostly symbolic atm.

Ex this post

i mean we were reading the thread and people were going on about how bad of an idea sacrifice was and how people were scummy for pushing it, we really wanted to make our case once we replaced in

[marcistar]

infinity wagon better than snivy wagon but idk i havent read muxh of the reasonings yet

[Infinity 324]

So I’ve been hanging onto a Marci townread from very early in the game. Initially I spent a bit of time fishing for tmi. Marci had some posting that was either super aware of that or just didn’t have setup information, or a group to discuss the setup with.

Maybe it’s reading too deep though. I’ve liked Marci’s headstrong play since then fwiw.

rce is a pretty strong townread fwiw for posts like this. 393 and 394 also felt really towny to me at the time. i'm a sucker for "i'm just here doing my own things sorting" posts and these just seem like weird/random angles for scum

[Infinity 324]

With Devil, I think I’m Vibing with Drew more than I have in any game before, just kind of casually, and I’m just not seeing ill intent there like I am with some other slots. Like for instance, i don’t think they have a reason to town read me here as scum unless they want me to push a misfade, and turn on me later, but i just don’t get that vibe at all.

Usually they discredit me when they’re scum

feel like you're being pocketed if town here

[Infinity 324]

Also also Alianna defended cakes again with Marci pushing there in some capacity. I get hydra dissonance but I think the falloff would have been discussed at some point between you two.

in general i'm having a hard time believing that drew and alianna are actually discussing reads outside the thread. it feels like they don't even bring up each others' reads except when asked

[Infinity 324]

i keep mindmelding with meow (on page 39 now) so comfortable putting them at towny for now

[Infinity 324]

958 feels really fake to us

we're caught up now

reads:
rce, cakez, marci (these aren't super duper strong but marci seems even more town here based on meow's description)
meow, roden
snivy, nurse, merlyn
aureal, csf (just cause they posted a bunch and said nothing that stuck out as town)
flavor, devil

we're somewhat at peace with being the lim for today (though still holding out hope for nurse replacement to extent the day!)

we'll be around for 6 hours today and a couple hours before deadline tomorrow if people want to ask us stuff

[Merlyn]

958 feels really fake to us

we're caught up now

reads:
rce, cakez, marci (these aren't super duper strong but marci seems even more town here based on meow's description)
meow, roden
snivy, nurse, merlyn
aureal, csf (just cause they posted a bunch and said nothing that stuck out as town)
flavor, devil

we're somewhat at peace with being the lim for today (though still holding out hope for nurse replacement to extent the day!)

we'll be around for 6 hours today and a couple hours before deadline tomorrow if people want to ask us stuff

Why does 958 feel fake to you? I was thinking that was a pretty reasonable explanation of why Deal Alianna thought it was a town reaction from meow.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it's shady as fuck that I say "ok let's do resolve this and do it all today" and then see you get cold feet and then pre-flip six different slots

If I'm scum I don't need to do shit here if you Infinity and Marci are town because you're already planning to flip the three of you by Day 3. Scum!me literally just sits here and does nothing and my hands are clean. I gain literally nothing as scum by inserting myself into this cluster fuck and putting forward a plan to get more info today instead of waiting until Day 3.

No.

We SPECIFICALLY don’t do it all today.

That’s like the whole thing.

And if you are scum with Marci, this is absolutely incorrect that you get nothing.

I gain absolutely nothing from playing like chaotic toxic shit and isn’t stopping you from voting this way

Sacrifice happens at night btw as I understand it, so it's either a night 1 or night 2 sacrifice

But setting that aside for a sec- if the theoretical lim order doesn't change, why does it matter? I didnt understand

Because I wanna talk in Day 2, and it also gives us Bureau in the case that i am right, and not getting sacrificed.

[Flavor Leaf]

ok so about fl and cakez;

I don't think this is not how town FL would be reacting here
You're literally going right into crazy accusations and trying to start a huge war/argument with me with a very bs claim that my vote on you was forced when if you read like any of the last five pages you'd know that I've been looking for someone to vote/suspect for a while now. Cmon that's just so wack.

i wasn't expecting to agree with fl here, especially since he doesn't agree with himself anymore apparently, but like... i think there's a valid concern here that isn't addressed. it makes sense that your threshold for 'scummy thing' is lower, but like, what's your thought process here that makes you think low initiative -> scum for fl specifically? i admit to not having played with him for a while, but from what i've seen so far this game, i'm highly doubtful he's changed at all for years; he delights in being scum and messing around with people and being exceptionally active, right?

and like... honestly my problem with fl's posts there wasn't that he had too little initiative, but too much. the defense on snivy going to the point of accusing people of hounding him so quickly was pretty bizarre to me, and as i said, he went harder than he needed to. so i'd like to at least hear more about the thought process behind this push

i don't really get devil's push on 786 either which seems fine

I know he pulls all that stuff as scum but my fear is/was that he was looking for an opening to exploit before doing so. And I kinda get the feeling I was right on that because he immediately attacked me as soon as I poked him and then said he was "faking" it and now he's on this marci thing, it just doesn't feel organic at all. It could just be FL being FL but I'm not getting any good vibes.

I’m past Marci. Cakez

[Flavor Leaf]

Not loving Infinity’s entrance.

Seems agenda - y

Yo wtf

Lol

[Flavor Leaf]

So Roden, Cakez, and Death are my town reads right now.

[biancospino]

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[biancospino]

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