I'll get into the rest of this stuff later but our problem wasn't with metaing games in general but with metaing old as hell games. Open 880 finished like a month ago it's recent as hellIn post 499, Kittiesecret wrote:I found this interesting when they then went on to do the same thing...In post 204, usesPython wrote: Are people really metaing 7 year old games?
I was thinking something similar. DE said he was trying to spice things up by having people do something, but his whole "let's build some wagons" thing happened right after Python's fake hammer. I think DE even said something like the fake hammer brought the game alive so I'm not sure why DE felt like he had to do something there to spice things up. I like that VIP noticed this tooIn post 386, Aneninen wrote: Still, there's one thing that disturbs me.
Python's "trollhammer" gave a lot of momentum to this game. Why do you think it was a good timing to do as you described? Especially since there are still players who's given zero reaction on my wagon or the "trollhammer". (Why is it called "meme" anyway?)
I think you're misunderstanding Comet here. 305 was going over the votes on the VIP wagonIn post 392, Afrayed Knott wrote: What did I do to fall off your list… between these two posts. I haven’t posted in all until now. Or are you completing someone else’s list?
I don't like this. It feels like DE is already apologizing for a misfadeIn post 400, DragonEater70 wrote: If you want you can also call it a policy lim - do you really want town!VIP in F5? I don't. But again this probably has >rand chance to flip scum, and considering the current gamestate I'd take that over a completely random person.
This feels weird too. We've been out of RVS for like 15 pages haha. And I don't think I like the vote on Afrayed hereIn post 430, DragonEater70 wrote: VOTE: Knott
Okay I think this is literally the point this game got of RVS and things are getting spicy.
Do you actually believe this?In post 442, DragonEater70 wrote: Like I don't think anything actually alignment indicative happened before page 16 if I'm being honest, and you won't be getting any associatives from anything before that.
Comet is townIn post 455, DragonEater70 wrote: Just to clarify, I still think Comet is town here.
Exactly this. I'm assuming you didn't get the same genuine vibes from Afrayed's posting there as I did?In post 464, Cometbright wrote: I feel like I did pretty clearly state why what he did has scum-alignment in #432. Now yes, he can say this was a mistake and that he actually hadn't completed that post before voting but as I said in #433 this isn't something we can confirm is town!Knott realising he made a mistake and clarifying or if it's scum!Knott realising he made a mistake and is now coming up with a reason for it.
I think you have a decent point and it feels like you actually believe this instead of you just pushing it based on an agenda. I don't think the case is very strong but we don't really have anything strong atmIn post 465, Cometbright wrote: I dunno, maybe I'm being too harsh/laser-focused here? It's not like we have anything really that strong to go off so this combined with the statistics I mentioned in #419 and the fact that Knott is going to be a hard read this game makes me comfortable with a vote on him.
Why haven't you voted for Comet then? Your VIP vote feels a little weirder now after reading this commentIn post 470, Afrayed Knott wrote: There is one other thing here that erks me greatly, I have had a scum vibe from Comet for a while and her presence on my list has nothing whatsoever to do with her vote on me.
why were you so concerned that someone wasn't voting?In post 112, Aneninen wrote: However, the most important question: why aren't you voting?
why is this more opportunistic than anyone else switching their votes, with or with out a reason. why did you focus in on my votes? I feel like at this point in the game they were indeed the least scandalous votes.In post 112, Aneninen wrote: In post 88, Kittiesecret wrote:
I dunno we will have to wait and see seems everyone is leaning town on Gimli, but is that what he wants us to think?
[...]
UNVOTE: Gimli
VOTE: Python
Now, that's an opportunistic vote.
Besides, why do you care what Gimli wants from us to think?
I don't see the point of saying this other than to brag about how "genius" you are at playing... seems showy for no reasonIn post 226, Aneninen wrote: Kittie, you may find me offensive, but this was no offense. It's more than enough to check the games Knott linked to see how "genius" I in this game can be.
called me out no less then 4 times for saying it was too early in the first 10 pages...In post 194, Aneninen wrote: And I really, really don't like that you end everything saying that it's "too early". It sounds like you're trying to find excuses for your reads.
Meh. I like this post and I agree with a lot of what is being said here. I think I'm ok letting Timmer cook D2In post 507, TimmerRC wrote: My problem is that my traditional scum-hunting route is to ignore day 1, which is usually fluff, and wait for an elim, which in my mafia world usually was within the first 48 hours. Once that happened and then a night 1 death went through or didn't, I would start to analyze how people talked to each other, how they voted and most importantly when, and in what order. I'd look to find where the scum were hidden in voting patterns etc.
But this game so far, I don't see how I can really provide a read yet, because everything that everyone is saying is completely plausible as both town and scum, if they are good players. A good player can EASILY be scum and post pro-townie, ESPECIALLY on day 1. So when you guys are asking me for my thoguhts, I have none because I've got NOTHING that feels truly scummy to point to. Any of the posts made in this game up to now could easily be either alignment.
Would you mind elaborating on said feeling?
Can you explain? It was for Comet's 432In post 436, DragonEater70 wrote: Yes that's a valid reason to scumread Knott, but it's not what you said.
I guessed there was something like that behind it.In post 443, Afrayed Knott wrote: Yes I started reading and making notes long before I posted those posts, I looked through all the the posts during the weekend period and copied out the quotes to Word then added my thoughts to them , I then posted them into the thread. Why?
And what do you think about the fact that he quoted only the part of my post that appeared to be useful for fabricating a scumread on me? (This is what I think, see my earlier post about it.)In post 452, DragonEater70 wrote: Also I voted Knott for calling you scum over a bad reason, however I think I kinda understand his reason now, thence the unvote.
Hmm...In post 485, DragonEater70 wrote: Have not read the last 2 pages in depth, however Tim has always bewn in mylimpool so happy to join the Volkswagen
VOTE: TimmerRC
But you quoted only the part which was about a successful scum-game of mine, ignoring (1) my successful SK game, (2) my terrible town game and (3) my terrible scum game.In post 491, Afrayed Knott wrote: but that is the part that sticks with me. its not a misquote. And I believe I have said that I recognise the rest of the post, so no I disagree, Your words are such that it says to me we cannot trust you. Do you deny that you have said that you played scum and yet won because you were blatantly over doing the look how town I am? you're words not mine.
Oh.In post 496, Black wrote: *camera pans to Black still laying in bed*
Alright alright I'll get up. I lost my job yesterday so I'm just slightly depressed
So there are at least parts in my thoughts some players don't find outdated. Good.In post 501, Black wrote: I was thinking something similar. DE said he was trying to spice things up by having people do something, but his whole "let's build some wagons" thing happened right after Python's fake hammer. I think DE even said something like the fake hammer brought the game alive so I'm not sure why DE felt like he had to do something there to spice things up. I like that VIP noticed this too
"Little" rereads. Almost empty posts.In post 501, Black wrote: I like A's little reread in 467 and 468 and I like the conclusion. Tim feels really lurky
Why is that vote?
It's strange that Timmer doesn't even try to do anything, considering he's at E-1... I'm unsure whether it's alignment indicative, but my gut says it's typically "frustrated town".In post 505, TimmerRC wrote: I have no reads, no vibes, no idea about anything. Page 21 is generally day 5 for the games I used to play, this is just overwhelming.
Oh, he tried after all.In post 507, TimmerRC wrote: My problem is that my traditional scum-hunting route is to ignore day 1, which is usually fluff, and wait for an elim, which in my mafia world usually was within the first 48 hours. Once that happened and then a night 1 death went through or didn't, I would start to analyze how people talked to each other, how they voted and most importantly when, and in what order. I'd look to find where the scum were hidden in voting patterns etc.
But this game so far, I don't see how I can really provide a read yet, because everything that everyone is saying is completely plausible as both town and scum, if they are good players. A good player can EASILY be scum and post pro-townie, ESPECIALLY on day 1. So when you guys are asking me for my thoguhts, I have none because I've got NOTHING that feels truly scummy to point to. Any of the posts made in this game up to now could easily be either alignment.
We feel town as fuck, what planet did you just fall out ofIn post 514, Gimli wrote: I feel like python is playing agoodgame. solid stances, some thread control, relaxed and witty. A good game, but considering how what happened to timmer is what happened with every other LHF probable townie in the game (afrayed knott seems legitimate, so does kitty, for instance), then that means the scum, at least one of them, is doing exactly what python is doing. there are no scummy people left, so we have to look at who looks towny but doesntfeelvery towny at all.
What feels empty about it?In post 518, Aneninen wrote: Am I the only one who found Black's catchup a bit empty compared to its length? (But I try not to be an aßwhole, knowing the IRL events this may be NAI.)
I thought the pressure would be valuable to read Timmer. Based on his reaction I feel like I was right
I don't like when someone's not voting for a long time. It's only my personal POV, but I consider it anti-town. Even if I remember doing the same shirt in certain games before.In post 508, Kittiesecret wrote: why were you so concerned that someone wasn't voting?
Wasn't there a wagon starting on Gimli at that time?In post 508, Kittiesecret wrote: why is this more opportunistic than anyone else switching their votes, with or with out a reason. why did you focus in on my votes? I feel like at this point in the game they were indeed the least scandalous votes.
I may have phrased it wrong, but I wanted to say this: the time you spent on the forum doesn't essentially correlates with the strength of your gameplay. The older games linked by Knott clearly showed this. I played poorly in both games, after all.In post 508, Kittiesecret wrote: I don't see the point of saying this other than to brag about how "genius" you are at playing... seems showy for no reason
Please, specify. If you're still interested in.In post 508, Kittiesecret wrote: posts 193, 194, 207, 219
Why does this bother you so much, and why do you believe its so indicative of scum? This feels like grasping at straws... and those have been banned...
Uhhh... this "doesn't feel very towny" sounds like an excuse for not explaining things.In post 514, Gimli wrote: I feel like python is playing agoodgame. solid stances, some thread control, relaxed and witty. A good game, but considering how what happened to timmer is what happened with every other LHF probable townie in the game (afrayed knott seems legitimate, so does kitty, for instance), then that means the scum, at least one of them, is doing exactly what python is doing. there are no scummy people left, so we have to look at who looks towny but doesntfeelvery towny at all.
That's a bad vote.
(1) I thought I found more content in it but whatever. Hence the () part.In post 520, Black wrote:What feels empty about it?In post 518, Aneninen wrote: Am I the only one who found Black's catchup a bit empty compared to its length? (But I try not to be an aßwhole, knowing the IRL events this may be NAI.)
I thought the pressure would be valuable to read Timmer. Based on his reaction I feel like I was right
In post 81, TimmerRC wrote: VIP did a group read on post 59. Most of their thoughts seem fine, I'm personally not willing to label individual posts as townie or scummy yet as I don't know the site meta, but the "things noticed" were indeed things to be noticed. I'm guessing that much of the tone about Gimli asking about masons is there to get a reaction response from Gimli, so I like that.
Null read overall.
In regards to Gimli, one thing I noticed was a major bit of self-awareness in posts 46 and 47. It was a "it is simply too early for trying to make cases" thing I guess but overly self-aware can sometimes be a scumread for me, so... noted.
In post 89, TimmerRC wrote:I'm chuckling a bit because I just thought "oh, I should go remove that vote from myself" but then here's your post and now it would look reactionary, lol.In post 87, Cometbright wrote:
I do find it interesting that you clearly grasp the idea of using votes to pressure people and then proceed to vote yourself. New scum players do tend to be a little scared of starting any conflicts so plays like that come across as a little people-pleasing and non-confrontational. Who's your biggest scumread right now?
As for the question though, generally speaking roleclaiming happens when someone is put at E-1 (one vote away from execution) and someone else announces an intent to hammer (cast the final executing vote) and they'll usually give a time-frame (e.g. "I'll hammer in 24 hours.") which gives the person on the gallows a chance to roleclaim so town avoids executing a PR.
I'll do it anyway. UNVOTE: TimmerRC
Technically I'm only a newer player to this site's meta. It has been years since I played but back in the day I played a lot.
In terms of scumreads, the only thing I've got jotted down is that both Afrayed and Gimli seemed oddly defensive in tone in replying to people's thoughts against them considering it is all fluffy early game stuff.
where none of it isIn post 173, TimmerRC wrote:In post 91, Afrayed Knott wrote: UNVOTE:
VOTE: TimmerRC
I’m not defensive at all. But I don’t like you right now.
I agree with usespython in post 100 re: kitty, she reads as a first timer who doesn't seem to have built in self-awareness yet.
I'm realizing that even if it is early and mostly based on jokey things, that making scumreadlists and using/moving votes is an expected tool here, I'm not used to voting this early at ALL. (just read to #112, vip you touch directly on this, so bear with)
Afrayed in 117 he is just very absorbed about how he is being perceived in this game and working hard to define himself for us/to suggest that we see him as he wants us to see him, which I don't love.
Dragon #125, "What do you think about usesPython and Afrayed Knott? And what do you think about Comet?" I'm not loving Afrayed at all, and frankly let's just VOTE: Afrayed while I'm sitting on this vibe. I'll get back to you on the other two in a minute, I'm still getting used to reading a game that moves like this, keeping organized is an effing challenge, lol.
I'm interested in this read. Go onIn post 523, usesPython wrote: Like Black the overall vibe feels like the first newbie game we played with you where you were scum
-A