Okay, give me more of an opportunity to explain myself. Unapologetic wall of text, and I'm not going to apologize for it, but please at least do me the courtesy of reading it if you genuinely suspect that I'm scum (especially looking at the likes of gob here). I just write a lot, and I often think about what a fucking killer that will be if people play with me long enough and I actually roll scum, because there's NO fucking way I could sustain this level of output if I had to make up literally everything I was doing. A quick disclaimer, remember also that there's a human behind this account, and I'm looking primarily at oats with this one. Just because you suspect someone is scum, that doesn't give you permission to be rude and hostile to them. Oats, you pull that shit with me where you insult my intelligence like you did on Roden just because you think I'm not aligned with you, we are going to have a HUGE fucking problem, you understand? I don't care if you think I'm so scummy that not even the most intense bathroom cleaner on the planet could make a dent in me; you don't treat the actual human like shit over a fucking form game. Please do your utmost to remember that.
My reads have shifted from last night. Regarding Dannflor, frankly I just missed post
374 in the chaos of last night and only saw the vote on top of the next page voting for me, but now that I've read post 374, I have a lot to say about it, which I will reserve for a separate post (and I will need to work through it completely to arrive at a proper read of Dannflor). The tl;dr version is that you'll see almost every single thing he said there is prefaced with "I feel like", it is just a slew of confirmation bias, and if you guys decide to lynch me today and Dannflor is actually a townie, Dannflor is going to have a HELL of a time sorting out why his gut instincts betrayed him so badly here. But anyway, let me explain better where I am at with everyone.
TOWN READS
Luca
- This post in particular struck me as very townie and very helpful:
In post 295, Luca Blight wrote:
Defensive:
234,
248 (btw, I think Oats' comment in
237 was fair and reflected my own thoughts at the time, hence my vote)
Aggressive/Potential Power-wolfing:
263,
264,
268,
274
Yes, you later walked this back by saying you weren't being entirely serious, but that in itself I find somewhat suspect.
Like this demonstrates that they aren't going based on feels and other common excuses that scum will make, none of that "well I played other games in the past with this person and have this gut instinct based on information from those games that none of you played and thus nobody has the ability to corroborate any of it" bullshit, they're making a case from things actually present and happening in THIS game which we can all see with our own eyes, and that strikes me as townie. They have also requested more information from people, like wanting to hear more from Roden in post
304, wanted more information from Dannflor in
371. They're doing a nice deep dive of OOO's recent posts in posts
465 and
467, trying to sort it out and understand it, and that level of dive / solviness suggests town to me.
I am encouraged also by the fact that Luca "reads Roden as scum independently", which is exactly how I feel also.
Oatsmaster
- My townread is largely based on my conclusion that acting like an asshole is townie. Oatsmaster has clearly crossed lines with belligerence in this game, and while I don't appreciate that in the slightest, I do give it credit for being a strong town tell, as it would otherwise show a near sociopathic level of arrogance and bravado to actually attack other people's character over their alleged personal stupidity for suspecting one's self to be evil. I prefer the far simpler and more likely explanation that he's just letting his position of innocence go to his head and his in-game moral superiority of not being evil give him some carte blanche to beat up on the baddies in ways that kinda cross the line. He is overly aggressive, like in post
212 calling gob's read "insanely terrible" (I'm not saying it's a good read, I think it's a bad case, but I am saying that "insanely terrible" absolutely is aggressive and belligerent language),
215 he said "Wow I can hold 2 separate thoughts in my head big whoop lol." which is quite condescending, and
259 frankly I think Oats owes Roden an apology for the personal insult, but again, it's hard to see how a scum writes a post like 259, where they actually insult someone's intelligence over a disagreement. Maybe I don't know Oats well enough and he really IS that arrogant, but it just seems much, much more likely to me that all that comes from the perspective of a cocky townie.
DarthPunk
- I was initially wary of Darth for post
57, and at that stage of the game I think my pressure / thoughts on the matter were entirely appropriate, being concerned that when he said "I’m trying to be a bit careful not to jump all over someone for not meeting my high expectations", that this could be a scum tell as scum always wants to remain flexible and wants to avoid having to switch gears.
But otherwise, post
382 was obviously a very helpful post and it isn't just a bunch of vibes agreeing and disagreeing, it is pushing people to explain certain things (including myself, which I appreciate, as I don't want anyone to be confused by what I am doing and encourage questions). I'm okay with Darth's wary stance on OutOfOrder (even though I currently read OOO as town...it's probably a light town read for me) and I align with Darth's thinking that Gob and Roden are scum. Bonus points for actually committing to / documenting a reads list without being prompted for it, which always strikes me as a townie thing to do. So I'm bumping Darth up to the Town column for now.
OutOfOrder
- After post
451, I feel a lot better about them. I wanted them to explain why they thought Luca was guilty and they delivered. I do still want an explanation on gob as I don't think I see them laying down their case anywhere, but their content contributions here are a lot more helpful and I feel better about OOO because of it, so
UNVOTE: OutOfOrder
There's been a bit of chatter about why I left my vote on OOO for so long and "why does Ninja still think OOO is guilty". I hope you realize that I was just waiting for more information / content from their end and wasn't going to change my mind about them until I got that, and it didn't actually come until this morning for understandable life reasons, so please don't be holding it against me for not sorting out my feelings on OOO prior to finally getting some answers. And again, bonus points for the reads list.
NULL READS
Dannflor
- will follow up in a subsequent post. I may move Dannflor out of null after I do it.
Vivax
- I think I am the most genuinely null on Vivax, but I possibly (POSSIBLY, not PROBABLY) lean more towards town than anything else. Mostly I would like to directly interact with Vivax more to get a better feel for him. I think my issue here is that I disagree with a lot of Vivax's views, but I can't deny that they are making a concerted effort to justify them. Like post
305, which ends with "Dann/OOO/Oats would be my picks for today", I guess the jury is out for me on Dann but AT THAT TIME I likely would have agreed with it, I think the read AT THAT TIME on OutOfOrder was appropriate (this was before OOO cleared things up with the post this morning), but I don't agree with the scum read on Oats at all. And post
309, Vivax thinks Roden is "very townie" and I don't agree with that at all. It's notable that, in Post
427, Vivax then changed their read on Dann after Dann's big post on me, and it is perhaps more townie / less scummy to willingly give up on a scum read from the day before. I would think a scum would be less likely to rather quickly change a read on someone based on one post, but I guess it's possible that Vivax is also just sailing with the winds of change and following the general direction of town and jumping on that very popular Ninja bandwagon right now.
Ultimately I just need more interaction with Vivax to sort this out and I encourage and welcome any and all of it.
Dunnstral
- 7 total posts as of writing this, and the only thing they've really talked about is a take on meta game analysis in post
372, about whether activity level is a sign of guilt. This is as good a time as any to explain my real intent with bringing up the fact that I think less activity is a sign of guilt: it was purely to try and light a fire under the asses of scum and get them to post more. My hope was that it would scare scum lurkers into providing more content, which is great, because the more scum has to say and the more content they have to provide, the more likely they are to screw up and get caught. When you're guilty, you increase your chances of getting caught every time you touch your keyboard and I don't think any scum is unaware of this fact, and I absolutely believe that plays out in games like this.
I mean I will fucking DIE on that hill, that I believe that the guilty just say less, and I cannot fathom why anyone legitimately believes otherwise. I am sympathetic to the view that it doesn't make for a
solid
case against anyone, but you have to be COMPLETELY off your rocker if you don't actually believe that the guilty are simply less likely to say stuff in this game, period.
So on that note, if you're town and you pushed back on me on this, just literally
what the fuck are you doing???
Were you not able to tell why a person might say something like this? If you are actually town and you argued against me on this, not only did you make what I think is a pretty dumb argument, you also just completely obliterated my move to try and scare scum into talking more, and at this point you've done that REALLY effectively, as now scum can look at all the pushback I got for trying to argue that low activity level means something and they can kick back with their cuppa tea or whatever calming beverage they prefer to consume and just let us townies provide all the content eating each other up while doing next to nothing to provide that content that will look scummy. Like, use your heads, people, and understand the implications of your thoughts and actions.
But I digress, the fact that Dunnstral offered so little content and that the only content is meta game analysis, I lean more scum, but there's just not enough content here to really nail that read down.
Hu Tao
- 16 total posts as of writing this, also very minimal levels of engagement. I lean more towards scum than town. They jumped aboard the choo choo SuperfluousNinja train and really only justified it based on a disagreement about meta game analysis (whether the guilty talk more or less), just like Dunnstral did. It strikes me as flimsy to think someone is guilty just because you have a different interpretation of what activity levels mean and strikes me as even MORE flimsy to legitimately believe that saying and doing less doesn't suggest that a person is more likely to be scum.
Naerys
- 8 total posts as of writing this. I will say she definitely leans scum based on what little is here, though, as it shows a very, very minimal level of engagement and is entirely unhelpful to town.
SCUM READS
Gob
- I think I have a completely legitimate reason to suspect gob after they tossed out this vote on me with the justification that my vote on OOO was "pretty bad" (see post
336) but then subsequently admitted that they hadn't even tried to understand why my vote was there. Why would a townie make a point of saying "that move was bad" when they don't even understand the move and made no effort to sort it out? More importantly, why isn't a townie interested in understanding this stuff, period? Gob doesn't just SEEM disengaged from this game;
he openly admits that he is.
(see post
353) And that is indeed scummy, since scum does not have any compelling reason to engage and figure things out, to ask meaningful questions and get to the bottom of anything, since they know exactly who is who.
Otherwise, just look at his ISO and tell me what you think is useful or moving the game forward at all. I find next to nothing in this ISO that does that. Post 322 sticks out as odd, by the way:
In post 322, gob wrote:
Vivax is probably the mafia in that pool.
everyone get on vivax
Just says this, doesn't explain why, doesn't offer any logic behind it, and I don't think hardly anyone else really vibes with this sentiment anyway so it feels very necessary to actually try and explain this, and that just doesn't happen.
And yes, you can tack on the terrible logic behind post
185 which has already been discussed at length here, as well as the whole "I'm posting just to post" stuff. It all adds up to a solid scum read of gob for me.
I still insist that I have scared gob with how active I am. Post
175 is neuroticism about excessive content. I am somewhat arrogantly assuming that at least one scum, if not all scum, have caught on to how engaged I am in this game, and they feel really threatened by that and are thus trying to get me killed and are going into overdrive to shut me up. I'll be really curious to follow up on this theory after the game ends.
Roden
- Defensiveness, defensiveness, defensiveness. That's what the case boils down to for me. He's even being defensive about the fact that he's being defensive! (post
344) Scum are obviously a lot more likely to be defensive since survival is their only real goal in this game, whereas town really shouldn't be quite as concerned with staying alive and is more concerned with moving the game forward, getting the truth out there, etc. I still think post
302 was incredibly dismissive, and post 294 openly admits to being unhelpful:
In post 294, Roden wrote:
I have thoughts on other players but you get them when you get them
Like what has Roden done so far? He focused interactions with Oats for a long time and later cast a vote for OutOfOrder without any explanation. That's, like, the extent of what Roden has done in this whole game, so for the life of me I wouldn't understand where a town read of Roden could possibly come from.
There's also the absent
MalcolmTucker
slot, and it is of course entirely possible they are scum, so we might have only been chasing 2 scum this whole time instead of 3 and IMO people need to be a lot more mindful of that, if they are already trying to theorycraft 3-person teams.
Thank you for reading all of this. One closing thought, I have absolutely nothing to hide and I'm not afraid of any of you or anything you might ask, so if there's anything I did or said that you still do not understand, please please PLEASE ask me about it. Please avoid a reaction of "eh, my read on all this is that Ninja is guilty, the end, I don't have any further questions" if you can.
I added my links to the posts at the end. If I missed any or mislinked anything, that was an error and not intentional.
Also I promise I'll never write anything this long again.
Believe me, I don't want to lol
Wow that took me hours and I haven't even gotten to Dannflor yet. FML
