Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue [Completed]

[usesPython]

VOTE: Black

Serious vote

[usesPython]

VOTE: python

This always flips scum

Thank you, we try our best

[usesPython]

TACKLE: Brock Purdy

am i doing it right? this is my first time making football jokes and im not sure if im doing it right

Pretty sure that's a red card, did you remember to pay off the ref beforehand?

[usesPython]

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

[usesPython]

readslist 1 of 6

[usesPython, JupiterXV, fireisredsir, JacksonVirgo, Roden, Black, tris, Dannflor]

phew! good work today everybody. wipes sweat from brow

No one is townier than us

[usesPython]

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

[usesPython]

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

[usesPython]

For some reason

it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious,

idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

You're right, I didn't take it serious.

I think it should be pretty obvious why I didn't but for some reason you threw these in here

Thought it was pretty clearly a joke given that our "serious vote" was dropped before you ever posted in a time that you'd normally be V/LA

[usesPython]

Hard claim supersaint

[usesPython]

i love

being

mafia

I just realized the "no small text" rule isn't actually a site rule that's crazy

[usesPython]

that is soooo frickin true tris hold on why are we even bothering with this lets just win right now HEAL: JV, Jupiter, Roden, Python, Black

Didn't heal yourself, we got em

[usesPython]

The Black unvote progression seems pretty straightforward idk why people are confused

For some reason

it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious,

idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

You're right, I didn't take it serious.

I think it should be pretty obvious why I didn't but for some reason you threw these in here

Thought it was pretty clearly a joke given that our "serious vote" was dropped before you ever posted in a time that you'd normally be V/LA

I read it as you playing dumb to cast shade and rile me up. I can believe that it was a joke though

Python problem gets resolved

serious vote. get blammed VOTE: usespython

E-2

VOTE: Jupiter

The reaction

[usesPython]

i promise to misread everyone in the game

0/1 for now, do better

[usesPython]

VOTE: hellbooks

[usesPython]

dann scum

ok but what was the retracted reasoning

[usesPython]

VC 1.03

Votecount 1.03

hellbooks (3):

Dannflor, usesPython, tris

[E-2]

usesPython (2):

JacksonVirgo, JupiterXV

JupiterXV (2):

Black, hellbooks

Black (1):

Roden

Dannflor (1):

fireisredsir

Not Voting (0):

None

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-21 01:27:42).

Mod notes:

• Here's the combined mod IS... wait.
  The fact Alianna hasn't even egoposted is really throwing me off here.

Imagine not knowing how to manually create a combined ISO couldn't be us

[usesPython]

VC 1.03

Votecount 1.03

hellbooks (3):

Dannflor, usesPython, tris

[E-2]

usesPython (2):

JacksonVirgo, JupiterXV

JupiterXV (2):

Black, hellbooks

Black (1):

Roden

Dannflor (1):

fireisredsir

Not Voting (0):

None

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in (expired on 2024-02-21 01:27:42).

Mod notes:

• Here's the combined mod IS... wait.
  The fact Alianna hasn't even egoposted is really throwing me off here.

Imagine not knowing how to manually create a combined ISO couldn't be us

Wait that's Aliana not Alianna

[usesPython]

I think Jupiter is scum

Elaborate

[usesPython]

I'm getting the same nervous scum energy vibes that I got from a game that just ended. That sequence in particular felt like a fabricated thought about Dann. Jupiter had a ton of fabricated thoughts in his scum game

The first thing that pinged me about Jupiter was his "I wish " response to me asking him if he's scum. Pretty minor read here but I have a feeling this is an unnatural response, even considering Jupiter's explanation after. Jupiter seemed super stressed in his scum game that just ended and I don't believe that he actually would wish he was scum again if he's town here. I think that was a response he crafted to seem like he's town

Didn't read that game at all, did the nervousness in open 894 have anything to do with both of their teammates getting voted out d1/2 or was it happening even in the earlygame?

[usesPython]

Jupiter what games do you enjoy playing (serious read)

[usesPython]

Also preferred movie genre

[usesPython]

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

fwiw (if u even care...) i think these are the two most notable posts of rvs and the part that makes the interaction feel weird to me

i think black's mindset in the interaction makes sense generally but is also like very rote and expected

35 is weird bc it feels kinda overexplained and i guess the like, thoughtful response vibe feels out of place with what is otherwise a joking rvs situation

36 is just a strange thing to townread black for and feels a little awkward to me

i think the thread response to the interaction was also somewhat interesting particularly jupiter and tris voting python and black respectively with a blam and a bwam respectively but also not really directly engaging with the content of it. although i think from my later discussion with tris she wasn't particularly interested in the posts that i found interesting and was more interested in black's vote on jupiter. interesting interest interesting

35 is cause Black got us caught up in her serious flow

36 the dissonance is probably coming from us being very free with our reads if we think we know how to read someone well

[usesPython]

Jupiter what games do you enjoy playing (serious read)

Also preferred movie genre

also preferred music genre (scouting recruits for walrus that won't happen)

oh god these are a lot of questions
i think my favorite experience in a mafia game was back in 2021 where i rolled SK after replacing into a slot and fakeclaimed twice (first as hider, then as doctor) and everyone BELIEVED me. and i actually managed to keep this up until we were at the day until ELO. that being said it was back in 2021 and i haven't played a 3p game outside of mafia.gg since. and mafia.gg is lowkey stinky
so i'd say i enjoy playing scum since being town is lowk stressful lol

okay so I don't actually know how to answer this question since I don't really watch movies all that most. i like ghibli though???? i watched the ace attorney movie for christmas and the boy and the heron sometime afterwards also i liked those movies

i don't know i like a lot of music. i really like classical but it depends on the composer. i like hatsune miku. i'm a miku fan. i also like video game music. and idk i just listen to something and if i like it i loop it for hours. what's walrus

Darn we can't advance the serious read with this. If you answered with something stressful like horror movies we could have pointed to it to hardcore agree with fire's "stress = fun" take on you

[usesPython]

What's the votecount

[usesPython]

Jupiter how do you reconcile you enjoying scum for being stress-free vs Black thinking you were stresses in your last scum game

[usesPython]

I'm getting the same nervous scum energy vibes that I got from a game that just ended. That sequence in particular felt like a fabricated thought about Dann. Jupiter had a ton of fabricated thoughts in his scum game

The first thing that pinged me about Jupiter was his "I wish " response to me asking him if he's scum. Pretty minor read here but I have a feeling this is an unnatural response, even considering Jupiter's explanation after. Jupiter seemed super stressed in his scum game that just ended and I don't believe that he actually would wish he was scum again if he's town here. I think that was a response he crafted to seem like he's town

Didn't read that game at all, did the nervousness in open 894 have anything to do with both of their teammates getting voted out d1/2 or was it happening even in the earlygame?

Also Black you missed this

[usesPython]

also lets b real mafia is stressful af why do I play it. because its fun

The trick to stress free mafia games is to delude yourself into thinking you are widely townread and have good reads and that people will follow you it works great for us highly recommend it

[usesPython]

python going like "what is your favorite genre serious question" and then secretly hoping jupiter says horror as like a gotcha journalism method and then as soon as jupiter doesnt say horror instantly going like "aw darn i hoped you were gonna say horror" is kinda cool but i dont have much to say about it im just kind of like writing it down in class for lack of anything else to do knowing im not gonna study over it later

well the horror genre in movies is kind of sensationalized like it's always cheap scares so idk why python expected me to say that i genuinely enjoyed horror movies
plot where? nowhere. it's always like. scary man. and then he chases you.

Horror was an example, we would have also accepted stressful games like Escape from Tarkov or Project Zomboid or something

[usesPython]

yoo we've been meaning to get that game when it goes on sale

[usesPython]

yoo we've been meaning to get that game when it goes on sale

wait it's on sale rn lets goooo

[usesPython]

Rhythm games are chill and non-stressful for us but that's cause we're too bad at them to get in the harder actually stress zone

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

[usesPython]

so is this "townreading the people who scumread us" like an endemic problem because i definitely also felt like a frisson of understanding about it

Average "townread people who scumread us" fan vs Average OMGUS enjoyer

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

what scumreads do you have?

like maybe Jupiter but not really confident there and that's about it

[usesPython]

you can go in there too for the constant shade that's also a bleh read

[usesPython]

hellbooks/tris/dannflor are white noise null reads, JV/Roden are radio off null reads

Black's decently townie

[usesPython]

tell me more about this constant shade

Spoiler: Quotes

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

hmm, this is maybe town. and i think may even have been why black stopped voting there

i don't really find that post is any less strange than the rest of the interaction. what makes you think it's town?

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

fwiw (if u even care...) i think these are the two most notable posts of rvs and the part that makes the interaction feel weird to me

i think black's mindset in the interaction makes sense generally but is also like very rote and expected

35 is weird bc it feels kinda overexplained and i guess the like, thoughtful response vibe feels out of place with what is otherwise a joking rvs situation

36 is just a strange thing to townread black for and feels a little awkward to me

i think the thread response to the interaction was also somewhat interesting particularly jupiter and tris voting python and black respectively with a blam and a bwam respectively but also not really directly engaging with the content of it. although i think from my later discussion with tris she wasn't particularly interested in the posts that i found interesting and was more interested in black's vote on jupiter. interesting interest interesting

neutral black. maybe a tiny bit towny since if she's scum then i would sort of expect her to push the situation more unless she's partnered with python which i think i agree is somewhat less likely

slightly scummy python but i also feel like they're playing this fairly differently from the marathon that inspired this game although there could be a variety of reasons for that

slightly scummy tris

python going like "what is your favorite genre serious question" and then secretly hoping jupiter says horror as like a gotcha journalism method and then as soon as jupiter doesnt say horror instantly going like "aw darn i hoped you were gonna say horror" is kinda cool but i dont have much to say about it im just kind of like writing it down in class for lack of anything else to do knowing im not gonna study over it later

i thought it seemed kinda overdone idk

In hindsight "constant" is probably the wrong word but that was the mental impression before we iso'd them for quotes

[usesPython]

shoutout to python for being the omgus enjoyer to bring balance that this game needed

Don't worry we got you

VOTE: fire

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

How can there be a deep wolf when no one is flipped and no one has made any hard reads?

Deepwolf as in posting as scum and not getting scumread/getting townread

[usesPython]

VOTE: Python

Add Roden to the assassination pool for this

[usesPython]

ooh another pagetop i'm just landing tons of pagetop this game uh

This is why Alianna hasn't egoposted yet smh

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

How can there be a deep wolf when no one is flipped and no one has made any hard reads?

Deepwolf as in posting as scum and not getting scumread/getting townread

I tend to see deep wolves as scum nestled in a town core rather than just not taking any heat

Who do you think falls under your definition atm?

uhh hellbooks/tris/dann/fire probably

[usesPython]

VOTE: Python

Add Roden to the assassination pool for this

Please no, I'd literally rather die today than Day 2, I will throw

No we meant that the assassin add you as the mafia solve

[usesPython]

can probably retract that though since the vote seems to be a definitional issue instead of a shitpush

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

How can there be a deep wolf when no one is flipped and no one has made any hard reads?

Deepwolf as in posting as scum and not getting scumread/getting townread

I tend to see deep wolves as scum nestled in a town core rather than just not taking any heat

Who do you think falls under your definition atm?

uhh hellbooks/tris/dann/fire probably

Tell me more about Fire

tell me more about this constant shade

Spoiler: Quotes

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

hmm, this is maybe town. and i think may even have been why black stopped voting there

i don't really find that post is any less strange than the rest of the interaction. what makes you think it's town?

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

fwiw (if u even care...) i think these are the two most notable posts of rvs and the part that makes the interaction feel weird to me

i think black's mindset in the interaction makes sense generally but is also like very rote and expected

35 is weird bc it feels kinda overexplained and i guess the like, thoughtful response vibe feels out of place with what is otherwise a joking rvs situation

36 is just a strange thing to townread black for and feels a little awkward to me

i think the thread response to the interaction was also somewhat interesting particularly jupiter and tris voting python and black respectively with a blam and a bwam respectively but also not really directly engaging with the content of it. although i think from my later discussion with tris she wasn't particularly interested in the posts that i found interesting and was more interested in black's vote on jupiter. interesting interest interesting

neutral black. maybe a tiny bit towny since if she's scum then i would sort of expect her to push the situation more unless she's partnered with python which i think i agree is somewhat less likely

slightly scummy python but i also feel like they're playing this fairly differently from the marathon that inspired this game although there could be a variety of reasons for that

slightly scummy tris

python going like "what is your favorite genre serious question" and then secretly hoping jupiter says horror as like a gotcha journalism method and then as soon as jupiter doesnt say horror instantly going like "aw darn i hoped you were gonna say horror" is kinda cool but i dont have much to say about it im just kind of like writing it down in class for lack of anything else to do knowing im not gonna study over it later

i thought it seemed kinda overdone idk

In hindsight "constant" is probably the wrong word but that was the mental impression before we iso'd them for quotes

[usesPython]

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

How can there be a deep wolf when no one is flipped and no one has made any hard reads?

Deepwolf as in posting as scum and not getting scumread/getting townread

I tend to see deep wolves as scum nestled in a town core rather than just not taking any heat

Who do you think falls under your definition atm?

uhh hellbooks/tris/dann/fire probably

is your impression that hellbooks is not getting scumread/is getting townread?

I didn't really check who was reading who, just went off our own reads

[usesPython]

If there were serious hellbooks scumreads they got memory holed

[usesPython]

black is factually correct about jupiter making similar posts as scum

I am not certain that I agree jupiter is scum for it or not

I think the last sequence from black leans towny though? something about the inconsistency in pushing jupiter coupled with the shade on hellbooks feels a bit all over the place in a towny way

not a strong read tho insert more qualifiers here

We didn't mention it earlier when the hellbooks read came out cause we wanted to see how black posted but in our experience the more "huh" type pushes Black has the more likely she is to be scum. As town she can be right or wrong but her posts still have that keen insight vibe

[usesPython]

ugh usesPython gives me lowkey rancid scum vibes but i cant explain what it is like there is no Reason To Scumread Them

vaguely town read this, idk if i should be

Funnily enough I think if we pull up the stats the word "Rancid" being used to describe us tends to come from scum than random

[usesPython]

we could probably just kill jacksonvirgo and have a greater than rand chance of hitting scum tbh

Something to consider is if we should be treating this game as "kill A, reset, kill B" or "kill A and B, optimise order for assassination if we're wrong" since killing a lurker d2 probably loses the game if they're town

[usesPython]

The best part of having shit memory is that we were spoiled on the game like half a year ago then forgot about it (no spoilers plz)

[usesPython]

i know there was someone i wanted to scrumread, but i can't seem to recall no matter how hard i try......

There's 9 roles but only 8 players this game, it's really weird

[usesPython]

V/LA until Saturday, should still be able to post

Received

- Dragon

[usesPython]

That just made me realize scum are probably more willing to openly defend their buddies in this setup since fading scum is even more punishing for them

Using this logic then Dann or fire could be partnered with Jupiter if he flips scum

Bussing was actually okish in the marathon game and isn't any more punishing than bussing in a normal micro since the end result is still 6/1

[usesPython]

Like there's definitely the mental of "oh no bussing loses two scum" but a good team should be able to recognise that bussing here is perfectly playable

[usesPython]

you are correct

"townreading the people who tell us that we're correct" new endemic problem just dropped

Easy, just never be correct

[usesPython]

Patiently waiting for the JV files to be leaked

[usesPython]

There's only a single person that would have been worse than that vote

JacksonVirgo (2): JupiterXV, tris

can one of your vote black at least until the next votecount to create a perfect 1 to 1 voting art installation pleeeaaase pretty please just for the sake of the art and then i'll vote whoever you ask me to after that

[usesPython]

I have no opinion on 503 (deliberately contrarian)

[usesPython]

Me when I look into getting into this game by asking JV about their vote on us only to realize it's still from RVS

[usesPython]

VOTE: usesPython

there's hardly anything going on in this iso.

That's what makes us town

[usesPython]

Black, Dann, towncase us (actually an open offer for anyone but don't tell tris)

[usesPython]

Black, Dann, towncase us (actually an open offer for anyone but don't tell tris)

This is taking too long, we'll do it ourselves.

The way we play as town is to basically vibe until we're struck by divine revelation that tells us the alignment of a few people. So far that's just "Black town" so we're patiently waiting for the next one

[usesPython]

UNVOTE: fire

[usesPython]

im not really sure how to take either of those responses because they both feel pretty tangential to what i was talking about

i dont quite understand what the main thrust of what you are saying is

Haven't read the coalition game but it's the difference between not being traditionally townie and not really giving a shit vs trying to be the model classical townie but also being aware you're not quite hitting those classical townie notes

[usesPython]

thats not something i care about as scum either i think. well maybe this depends on what "classically towny" means

yknow like having a mix of scum and townreads, showing your progression, that kinda stuff

[usesPython]

well in coalition you are trying to find townies

in Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue, you are trying to find mafia

here i feel like there is less of that and more of what seems to me like an attempt to fit in to usual towny behavior and also like an awareness that maybe you aren't quite reaching a bar that you feel like you're supposed to

i think this is true except except instead of what i'm reaching for being "being towny" its "doing a good job at the game of mafia as a town player"

well, i don't have scumreads!!!! you've fallen for my trap

Can you talk about this progression for a bit?

[usesPython]

and also kind of not sure about python's approach here

Gonna put a pin in this convo for when we come back from V/LA but something about tris's response feels weird on a gut level and those types of feelings tend to turn into revelation type reads later so we'll just let it stew

[usesPython]

Ok the read has finished settling

well, i don't have scumreads!!!! you've fallen for my trap

i dont even know what a scum read is! is that where i read the game as scum because i am scum?

im trying to find the mafia but im really bad at it

in coalition, the part where i stress about not having scum reads came after the coalition failed

There's an emotional dissonance here, this setup punishes not having scumreads

more

than Coalition so your lightheartedness about not having scumreads when you were apparently stressing about not having scumreads after the coalition failed is offputting

[usesPython]

btw we'd put tris at E-1 here but I kinda dont want to end the day yet so just consider our vote there in spirit

[usesPython]

wait nvm fire moved off

VOTE: tris

[usesPython]

If you think about it you can cross out "make at least one post between 5 and 5:15 AM" since it's always 5 AM somewhere

[usesPython]

Ok the read has finished settling

well, i don't have scumreads!!!! you've fallen for my trap

i dont even know what a scum read is! is that where i read the game as scum because i am scum?

im trying to find the mafia but im really bad at it

in coalition, the part where i stress about not having scum reads came after the coalition failed

There's an emotional dissonance here, this setup punishes not having scumreads

more

than Coalition so your lightheartedness about not having scumreads when you were apparently stressing about not having scumreads after the coalition failed is offputting

this is weird because in 595, you were saying i was too stressed about like not having scumreads. this new line of attack feels completely contrary to what you were saying before. i feels like you are trying to find seeming contradictions and slap a scumread on it.

in fact, i was stressed when like, i had hellbook's vote in tow, but for various reasons, i wasn't so much last night.

Hey so normally we're content to sheep ourselves and play as "Python" instead of individuals with differing opinions but in this case it's counterproductive since it's masking what's actually happening in a scummy way. When we're sheeping ourselves we have a rough hierarchy of who we sheep based off factors such as recency, level of detail, etc. In this specific case 595 was the party line so to speak while 613 was my own individual read that crossed the threshold to become the new party line. The dissonance you're seeing is because you're modelling it as an individual wildly swinging to a different read when it would be more accurate to treat it like hydra dissonance

-V

[usesPython]

More specifically, I personally didn't really have any read on you until the gut ping in 607

-V

[usesPython]

Today I found out Oreos and Ice cream Sandwiches are the same thing (for some reason I was imagining ice cream sandwiches were like literal sandwiches)

[usesPython]

i feel like everyone has townread black without giving much reason lol

Black's still town

[usesPython]

i should probably focus on my things why am I playing mafia right now

Mafia is an addiction none can escape

[usesPython]

777

[usesPython]

fire is like 2nd or 3rd on our to kill list but we're fine with going there

[usesPython]

VOTE: python

VOTE: fire

[usesPython]

python, am i still scumread?

Yes but the read is being memory holed as we speak

[usesPython]

python, am i still scumread?

Yes but the read is being memory holed as we speak

oh no i wanted to ask more questions

Ask before we forget completely

[usesPython]

do you have anything to say about the second paragraph of 658

If you were stressed about not having scumreads in Coalition why weren't you stressed about not having scumreads this game?

(We have thoughts about the stress/not stressed dichotomy ignoring the coalition game that we'll post after the response)

[usesPython]

no i was stressed earlier. now im kinda chill tho

Yeah that's what we're saying, why are you chill with not having scumreads this game?

[usesPython]

the pressure of holding another's vote in my hands is not something i enjoy from the other end tbh!

well in coalition you are trying to find townies

in Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue, you are trying to find mafia

The "!" in the first post makes the stressed/not stressed claims believable, there's a noticeable change in writing styles that'd be weird to fake in advance

[usesPython]

the pressure of holding another's vote in my hands is not something i enjoy from the other end tbh!

well in coalition you are trying to find townies

in Open 904: DE Runs a Marathon Setup in the Open Queue, you are trying to find mafia

The "!" in the first post makes the stressed/not stressed claims believable, there's a noticeable change in writing styles that'd be weird to fake in advance

i don't believe this is a real thought

[usesPython]

i don't see how the exclamation mark leads you to the conclusion you did

like 99% of her posts end with no punctuation, suddenly changing that with no real cause would indicate a change in mental state

[usesPython]

well, i don't have scumreads!!!! you've fallen for my trap

i dont even know what a scum read is! is that where i read the game as scum because i am scum?

ok then why did you ignore these two posts which are shortly after the latter two you quoted? they have exclamation marks

We're not talking about punctuation marks in the middle of her posts, we're talking about the end. With the exception of like a single post that ends with "." if she uses punctuation marks at the end it's only "?" for questions

[usesPython]

it's the lazyness of "ok post done send it" that makes the posts not stressed

[usesPython]

i don't think he ever had the kind of "ok but you're wrong" energy in a reaction to being suspected though like he's had here, except for when he was being scumread for the wrong reasons

that's maybe more accurately the part that i find towny in this game

Is there anything stopping Jupiter from being scum scumread for the wrong reasons here?

[usesPython]

VOTE: Dannflor

I don't believe his confidence in Jupiter is real. And I don't think his read progression on me makes sense. I don't think it's a coincidence that Dann moved me down after I questioned him for townreading me. The reasons don't really align in a way that makes it feel natural either. He says it's because I'm not solving or making teams but I've already posted partner thoughts based on if Jupiter flips scum and I'm solving in my usual way

Dann's position towards me just doesn't add up. I think town!Dann would have been way more wary of me early. I don't think he would have townread my tunneled push on Jupiter because in a game that literally just ended I tunneled pushed gob at the start and I was scum. I think it's more likely he was trying some sort of pocketing "I townread you so you'll townread me" thing and when it didn't work he decided to move me into his PoE.

If it helps we had similar thoughts of you being town early then dropping when you kept on the Jupiter tunnel without really doing anything, it's just that that went away when you started reading other slots too

[usesPython]

[jupiter]
[tris, hellbooks, usesPython]
null——- [Roden]
[JacksonVirgo, Black]
[fireisredsir]

readlist 1/42

Why did I drop

And how confident are you in your Jupiter read

i am not really getting the sense you’re trying to solve the game. You feel extremely tunnel visiony in pushing jupiter and i think you’re usually trying to put together teams and stuff by now and you’re just… not really doing any of that

I am pretty confident on jupiter!

How does the Black read fit with these?

VOTE: tris

1. I like wagons
2. I don't really think python is scum so I want a counter wagon going
3. Jupiter is gone until Sunday and no one really seems to want to help me wagon him so my vote was getting kinda stale
4. I don't townread you

the fact that tris seems confused by this rather than being like "oh i see what you mean however that is because of x and y and not because i am scum" is sort of making me doubt tbh

and also kind of not sure about python's approach here

UNVOTE:

ill still grab some posts that made me think that in a minute @tris

I don't see why scum!tris couldn't be confused about this

[usesPython]

Forgot Roden existed part 2: electric boogaloo

[usesPython]

Out there read: people only really having like 1-2 scumreads instead of more makes Roden >rand scum

[usesPython]

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

[usesPython]

Just realized the deadline is in two days and there's like 6 competing vanity wagons

UNVOTE:

selling our vote who wants it

[usesPython]

alternatively help us wagon Roden who wants in

[usesPython]

would prefer to vote between dann and JV but if anyone has a convincing scumcase on someone else i'll be willing to vote there

Notice how you only have two people you want to vote in a 3 scum game while Roden has been lurking the entire game

[usesPython]

simply put on the roller skates again

i need the tip jar cuz im broke

[usesPython]

but fr fr i think it feels kinda like something out of the datisi scum playbook where it's like. feels like a good townie thing to do. watching for scum doing x thing bc scum would do x in this gamestate !

but it's kind of applying a formula rather than viewing things holistically

and that worries me a bit bc i think it isnt really the approach i expect from town dann

especially the first line of comparing it to a recent game experience is like. ok dann you've played a ton of games you know how to hunt scum. you have a process. why is that the most recent game suddenly put you on high alert for.... scum pushing people that are easy to push? it feels kinda off

No this is wrong, Dann used the same type of read in that game

i wonder if scum will try to push ranger tomorrow because ranger does look incredibly bad

I find it hard to believe though that Ranger is scum with Python because Python did not show up to try to corroborate Ranger's claim

in fact I think one of the main reasons Python probably didn't post was because they didn't know how to react to a townie fake claiming mason on them

to correctly identify the scumteam after he died

it feels as though the scum team in StD and Black

[usesPython]

but fr fr i think it feels kinda like something out of the datisi scum playbook where it's like. feels like a good townie thing to do. watching for scum doing x thing bc scum would do x in this gamestate !

but it's kind of applying a formula rather than viewing things holistically

and that worries me a bit bc i think it isnt really the approach i expect from town dann

especially the first line of comparing it to a recent game experience is like. ok dann you've played a ton of games you know how to hunt scum. you have a process. why is that the most recent game suddenly put you on high alert for.... scum pushing people that are easy to push? it feels kinda off

No this is wrong, Dann used the same type of read in that game

i wonder if scum will try to push ranger tomorrow because ranger does look incredibly bad

I find it hard to believe though that Ranger is scum with Python because Python did not show up to try to corroborate Ranger's claim

in fact I think one of the main reasons Python probably didn't post was because they didn't know how to react to a townie fake claiming mason on them

to correctly identify the scumteam after he died

it feels as though the scum team in StD and Black

these are not at all the same thing?

obviously he made that kind of read in that game, he directly referenced it

I don't get what you're trying to say then

[usesPython]

especially the first line of comparing it to a recent game experience is like. ok dann you've played a ton of games you know how to hunt scum. you have a process. why is that the most recent game suddenly put you on high alert for.... scum pushing people that are easy to push? it feels kinda off

More specifically this line, if he literally used it in that game as town then I don't get how that'd imply his process changed

[usesPython]

yes my point is that its always something he's looking for so it's weird that he is talking about it as if he's introducing a new concept

It doesn't look like he's talking about it as a new thing to us? Can you quote the posts that gave you that impression

[usesPython]

it is something that i am on high alert for especially after Dragon's frenemies game that just ended

That feels more like it's part of his process that he's putting in extra focus on after the frenemies game but we're willing to drop this for now

[usesPython]

I think Dann is just scum. He often flaunts being so good at reading me but here his read feels really bad and forced, especially the vote

Fhe cats woke me up. Didnt even set an alarm. I didnt even want to be awake at this awful time. Anyway my dann style hypothesis is that if youre town then tris is the scum pushing you

Why?

well they like barged into the bed and started scampering around of course im gonna wake up

Pretty sure Black was asking about the "Black = town -> tris = scum" read you have there

[usesPython]

i like black's dann push a lot less than i like dann rn

If Dann flips scum I'm autoflipping fire for this comment

shush, you gotta say you'll locktown them to bait them into shooting their partner instead

[usesPython]

Black continues to be town, who do you want dead Black?

[usesPython]

Ask us again when we've had a full nights sleep but we'd probably add Roden to the list and also need to re-read JV to see if they should be on the list

[usesPython]

I'm a little worried that Jupiter might be scum jumping on a town!Dann wagon because he's afraid of Dann and views him as a threat like he did when we were scum together

Not sure if we'd put it in those words but yeah we dont like the Dann pivot

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

[usesPython]

It's the vote and dip when the Black/Dann fight was ready to happen close to the deadline that looks really bad

[usesPython]

VOTE: jupiter

[usesPython]

pagebottom

[usesPython]

If PC is town here it's gonna be almost impossible for a d1 scum lim to happen without bussing since it would require the entire rest of the town to vote correctly or for scum to not be able to off their buddy effectively which with the JV/Jupiter split isn't gonna happen. In that case we'd rather just treat today like a loyal vig shot and set up for a simpler day 2

[usesPython]

We are hella down to kill PC here

[usesPython]

If PC is town here it's gonna be almost impossible for a d1 scum lim to happen without bussing since it would require the entire rest of the town to vote correctly or for scum to not be able to off their buddy effectively which with the JV/Jupiter split isn't gonna happen. In that case we'd rather just treat today like a loyal vig shot and set up for a simpler day 2

im not really sure what you intend to say with this

is it supposed to justify your vote on Jupiter or argue against my case for JV?

We think Black is town

If Jupiter is scum then Jupiter is a good lim

If Jupiter is town then leaving them alive for tomorrow means Black probably mislims there and we're not too confident in Jupiters aim so Jupiter probably needs to go d1 in a town Black game

[usesPython]

If Jupiter is town then leaving them alive for tomorrow means Black probably mislims there and we're not too confident in Jupiters aim so Jupiter probably needs to go d1 in a town Black game

this logic seems kinda wack to me

are you not worried about JV being town and me miselimming there tomorrow instead? what makes black's scum read of Jupiter special

In that case the only difference between JV or Jupiter going today is who gets to snipe, and we subconsciously trust JVs aim more for some reason (probably shouldn't given our last game but such is life)

[usesPython]

Ask us again when we've had a full nights sleep but we'd probably add Roden to the list and

also need to re-read JV to see if they should be on the list

did you ever do this?

No we forgot

[usesPython]

We are hella down to kill PC here

okay but also why say this if you are so worried about Jupiter sniping

Gonna hold off on answering this until tomorrow, someone remind us if Dann gets shot

[usesPython]

tomorrow as in Day 2

[usesPython]

Ask us again when we've had a full nights sleep but we'd probably add Roden to the list and

also need to re-read JV to see if they should be on the list

did you ever do this?

No we forgot

Done, we are hella down to call JV scum

[usesPython]

Done, we are hella down to call JV scum

how does that compare to your jupiter scum read

Like around

{Jupiter}
{JV, Roden}

JV and Roden are consistently bad whereas Jupiter it's more a few parts where brain goes "danger"

[usesPython]

I'm town, and unaware of what?

You replaced Roden

[usesPython]

UNVOTE: jupiter

[usesPython]

We are hella down to kill PC here

okay but also why say this if you are so worried about Jupiter sniping

Gonna hold off on answering this until tomorrow, someone remind us if Dann gets shot

it feels very contrived that your logic only applies to not killing Jackson today and yet you are happy with either Jupiter or PC

i am struggling to follow this as a genuine thought process about who to lim

Ok I can explain this now since PC seems to just be ignoring it. At around 1212 PC is a terrible wagon, we just wanted to see what they'd do with the gamestate shifting to make a PC wagon

feel

possible.

If they're scum and they went anti-spew from 1212 then the post would have done its job

PC posting any sort of reads though makes them a bad wagon. If they're town getting limmed this game I want them sniping since from vague memory they're pretty on point as town. If they're scum it's gonna be pretty impossible to lim them without scum bussing in that gamestate while also giving scum safe distancing opportunities

[usesPython]

it took me a while to understand that post but if i am understanding correctly, you are saying that that post was kind of like a reaction test attempt to pressure reads out from PC if town / make them think their lim was imminent and clam up if scum

Pretty much

do you think w
you were succesful at that?

They posted a lot of reads so it worked out, but I dont think it had anything to do with us

[usesPython]

as in they posted reads without really having 1212 in their thought process

[usesPython]

VC 1.17

Votecount 1.17

JacksonVirgo (3):

hellbooks, Dannflor, tris

[E-2]

JupiterXV (3):

JacksonVirgo, usesPython, Black

[E-2]

Not Voting (3):

JupiterXV, fireisredsir, Political Clout

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in

(expired on 2024-02-21 12:57:17)

.

Mod notes:

• Thanks Dannflor for doing my job, I'm posting this so it appears in my ISO though. Edit: nvm just realized PC unvoted.

it's in 12 hours, deadline was paused during roden replacement

[usesPython]

We just woke up so we should be available the entire time, idk the votecount rn though

[usesPython]

see yo uat 5 AM tris

Seeing this posted at 5AM our time makes this funnier

[usesPython]

We are hella down to kill PC here

okay but also why say this if you are so worried about Jupiter sniping

what does this mean btw

sniping = the mechanic where the townie eliminated in 7p ELO can guess who the mafia is to win the game

[usesPython]

true that would be pretty funny

VOTE: JV

[usesPython]

JacksonVirgo is being replaced. Deadline frozen again and will reset to 36 hours once the replacement confirms.

bruh

[usesPython]

I think there's like at most 1 scum on the Python wagon here, feels like people felt "stuck" during the past JV/Jupiter and Black/Dann dichotomies and are trying to unstick themselves with a flashwagon while scum are content to keep being useless

[usesPython]

VOTE: tris

[usesPython]

Ranger has replaced JacksonVirgo. Deadline: (expired on 2024-02-22 13:41:49).

Damn, I no longer want JV dead

[usesPython]

I see usesPython is at e-1.

On the one hand, I would gladly sheep the names on them.

On the other, I'm not going to blind hammer, and what are the odds this is the same usesPython we just lost to?

Python wagon is a flashwagon in response to a combo of gamestate being stale and us being vague during a reaction test getting us heat. You're probably gonna find scum off wagon there

[usesPython]

yeah pretty much, like none of those names individually are very sus but with the new replacements no one really is giga sus so we're reading the gamestate instead

[usesPython]

yeah pretty much, like none of those names individually are very sus but with the new replacements no one really is giga sus so we're reading the gamestate instead

what about the replacement affects your read

PC's saving the Roden slot and we expected Ranger to save the JV slot regardless

[usesPython]

yeah pretty much, like none of those names individually are very sus but with the new replacements no one really is giga sus so we're reading the gamestate instead

what about the replacement affects your read

PC's saving the Roden slot and we expected Ranger to save the JV slot regardless

why do you expect that

We respect Ranger as a player enough to think she can save both town!JV and scum!JV

[usesPython]

yeah pretty much, like none of those names individually are very sus but with the new replacements no one really is giga sus so we're reading the gamestate instead

what about the replacement affects your read

PC's saving the Roden slot and we expected Ranger to save the JV slot regardless

sorry can you explain more? i was going to try to guess at what you meant but id rather not assume and i don't exactly understand

wdym?

[usesPython]

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{usesPython}
{JupiterXV}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{tris}

P12

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{usesPython}
{Black}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Dannflor}
{JupiterXV}
{tris}

P13

{hellbooks, fireisredsir}
{Black}
{Dannflor}
{JupiterXV}
{tris}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{usesPython}

P14

absolute rollercoaster

[usesPython]

are we just committing to waking up early and figuring things out at the deadline or what

deadline got extended to 36 hours

[usesPython]

UNVOTE: see yall tomorrow
what a day

Unvoting 10 hours before deadline's an interesting choice. Why?

Ranger has replaced JacksonVirgo. Deadline: (expired on 2024-02-22 13:41:49).

[usesPython]

to be honest black, if you're town, your play feels like a facsimile of your usual town play

My vibes exactly.

I feel this isn't the town-Black I previously saw, it's an imitation thereof.

{hellbooks, fireisredsir, JupiterXV, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout(Roden)}
{Black, tris}

I'm feeling a bit bold, here.

Setup is 6/3 so you probably need to be less bold here

[usesPython]

Ranger's saving the slot, tris wagon anyone?

[usesPython]

VOTE: Black

Serious vote

okay we know right from the start python is JOKING

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

this is continuing on the joke since black doesn't say much in post 25.

actually the Black townread in 36 wasn't a joke, we have enough experience with both town!Black and scum!Black to be able to vibecheck her

The Black unvote progression seems pretty straightforward idk why people are confused

For some reason

it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious,

idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

You're right, I didn't take it serious.

I think it should be pretty obvious why I didn't but for some reason you threw these in here

Thought it was pretty clearly a joke given that our "serious vote" was dropped before you ever posted in a time that you'd normally be V/LA

I read it as you playing dumb to cast shade and rile me up. I can believe that it was a joke though

Python problem gets resolved

serious vote. get blammed VOTE: usespython

E-2

VOTE: Jupiter

The reaction

this feels like iioa they're saying hey look at this thing that happened and not commenting their analysis of the interactions.

It's iioa because there's nothing to analyze, we were genuinely confused about why people were confused about the progression and wanted to see if we missed anything. Turns out we didn't actually miss anything and people were remembering the events wrong

VOTE: hellbooks

naked vote on hellbooks. this is page 6 iirc. I'm willing to let it go though.

We specialize in naked votes

Didn't read that game at all, did the nervousness in open 894 have anything to do with both of their teammates getting voted out d1/2 or was it happening even in the earlygame?

I feel like this is just here to go into the other game? to answer though no it dont think it was happening in the early game. they had like 2 walls iirc.

It's there because we don't care enough about non first-hand meta to go read another game beyond just seeing the flips but still wanted to see if Blacks read passed basic sanity checks

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

I think this is also iioa like what are your actual thought who would be the deepwolf/lurker that you're thinking it could be?

The problem with this gamestate read specifically is that we don't know who the deepwolf would be because the read is based on naturally not scumreading people so it's hard to tell who's deepwolfing vs just naturally being townie and who's scum lurking vs town slanking

like maybe Jupiter but not really confident there and that's about it

why is jupiter in your lim list here? at this point in the game I'm actually really curious. I was townreading them early in the game.

279 felt bad

btw we'd put tris at E-1 here but I kinda dont want to end the day yet so just consider our vote there in spirit

hesitation about voting for tris because in hammer range? not sure how I feel about that. I'm certain people would intent before hammering.

The optimal way to play this setup is for scum to quickhammer someone day 1, die day 2, shoot the other obvious wolf, then let a good deepwolf play out the resulting 4/1

fire is like 2nd or 3rd on our to kill list but we're fine with going there

I don't remember them ever talking about fire except for them being a deepwolf

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

How can there be a deep wolf when no one is flipped and no one has made any hard reads?

Deepwolf as in posting as scum and not getting scumread/getting townread

I tend to see deep wolves as scum nestled in a town core rather than just not taking any heat

Who do you think falls under your definition atm?

uhh hellbooks/tris/dann/fire probably

Tell me more about Fire

tell me more about this constant shade

Spoiler: Quotes

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

hmm, this is maybe town. and i think may even have been why black stopped voting there

i don't really find that post is any less strange than the rest of the interaction. what makes you think it's town?

For some reason it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious, idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

fwiw (if u even care...) i think these are the two most notable posts of rvs and the part that makes the interaction feel weird to me

i think black's mindset in the interaction makes sense generally but is also like very rote and expected

35 is weird bc it feels kinda overexplained and i guess the like, thoughtful response vibe feels out of place with what is otherwise a joking rvs situation

36 is just a strange thing to townread black for and feels a little awkward to me

i think the thread response to the interaction was also somewhat interesting particularly jupiter and tris voting python and black respectively with a blam and a bwam respectively but also not really directly engaging with the content of it. although i think from my later discussion with tris she wasn't particularly interested in the posts that i found interesting and was more interested in black's vote on jupiter. interesting interest interesting

neutral black. maybe a tiny bit towny since if she's scum then i would sort of expect her to push the situation more unless she's partnered with python which i think i agree is somewhat less likely

slightly scummy python but i also feel like they're playing this fairly differently from the marathon that inspired this game although there could be a variety of reasons for that

slightly scummy tris

python going like "what is your favorite genre serious question" and then secretly hoping jupiter says horror as like a gotcha journalism method and then as soon as jupiter doesnt say horror instantly going like "aw darn i hoped you were gonna say horror" is kinda cool but i dont have much to say about it im just kind of like writing it down in class for lack of anything else to do knowing im not gonna study over it later

i thought it seemed kinda overdone idk

In hindsight "constant" is probably the wrong word but that was the mental impression before we iso'd them for quotes

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

would you hate me if i asked you to try?

I'm a little worried that Jupiter might be scum jumping on a town!Dann wagon because he's afraid of Dann and views him as a threat like he did when we were scum together

Not sure if we'd put it in those words but yeah we dont like the Dann pivot

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

[usesPython]

I'll say you're probably never going to top town or top scum for the exact same reason; fear.

I don't believe fear has ever stopped you forming a confident read on me before. What is different about my play this game?

{hellbooks, fireisredsir, JupiterXV, usesPython, Dannflor}
{Political Clout, Black, tris}

P50

On the one hand, these reads feel really solid.
On the other, I should never have a perfect readslist with everyone town except three scum. I'm not that good.

did you miss this?

[usesPython]

i can't tell if python's response to ranger replacement is more likely to come from scum tmi that the slot will be towny now or from wanting to try to manifest the lim being off the table but either way it doesn't feel like a town reaction

We ran the numbers on page 57 and concluded we can't save ourselves here so it'd be pretty weird for us to pull that, especially since a ranger/python game would mean both of us don't make it to day 2 in that case because ranger would be the optimal nightkill at that point

[usesPython]

I think there's been a decent amount of conflation from people when it comes to our posts wrt "this person is scum" vs "this person is a good wagon"; namely unless scum are being stupidly blatant a scum flip won't happen today. Ranger saves the slot because regardless of how many people go "nah not feeling it" if there's even one other person that goes "ok good enough" she's already impossible to flip as scum

[usesPython]

i have been noticing more and more as a pattern lately that scum have a tendency to believe that town people's reads are more locked in than they actually are

More playstyle in this case, our wagoneering style relies heavily on forcing compromises instead of actually casing; we're good enough at it to force a compromise lim through with 23 hours on the clock but we're not good enough to change peoples minds and also mount a counterwagon in that time so the level of locked in-ness is completely irrelevant because we can't actually leverage it

[usesPython]

so...

you both believe bussing D1 is perfectly playable for scum in this setup

but you also believe it is impossible to flip scum D1

What we consider optimal is not what scum has to be doing

[usesPython]

VC 1.19

Votecount 1.19

Ranger (2):

tris, usesPython

usesPython (2):

Political Clout, Dannflor

tris (1):

Ranger

Not Voting (4):

JupiterXV, Black, hellbooks, fireisredsir

With 9 players alive, it takes 5 votes to secure an elimination.

The day deadline is in

(expired on 2024-02-22 13:41:49)

.

Mod notes:

• I'm going to be V/LA from now until Sunday, so nightstart and daystart might both be delayed by up to a few hours, but most likely won't.

we're voting for tris

Fixed, thanks.

[usesPython]

okay but why are you assuming scum would not be bussing and it's impossible to flip scum D1

we have literally been the main wagon for like the past 10+ pages, what do you think?

[usesPython]

you held this belief before you were the main wagon

Before we were the main wagon the gamestate was split enough that scum could very easily justify not voting for their partner enough to force a town lim through

[usesPython]

you pulled at this very same logic in Friends and Enemies where you assumed where a bunch of people's reads were locked in at and made a show of being like "welp im dead i don't have the numbers"

that feels like a very... idk, incurious way to play the game

The emotions behind the frenemies post were real (STD was like half an exception since they couldn't believable justify moving their vote off)

[usesPython]

and im pretty sure you are the only one who has voiced anti-support for a Ranger wagon

VOTE: jacksonvirgo let me just fill in for you tris

UNVOTE: see yall tomorrow
what a day

explicit support is irrelevant, even something like this is enough

[usesPython]

Dann how do you normally kill people/not get killed during the day as scum

[usesPython]

not like in general I'm talking you specifically

[usesPython]

you too fire

[usesPython]

sorry what did i do
what should i be doing
i dont understand
did i do a bad job

You're being used as an example of the minimum level of doubt necessary for a townie to have on a slot for scum to get away with not bussing their teammate, it's more a commentary on the setup than you in particular

[usesPython]

Dann how do you normally kill people/not get killed during the day as scum

varies? i wouldn't say my goal is always to not get killed as scum

i usually try to figure out who will be the best elimination for furthering my win condition and work my way towards making that happen in one way or another

not talking about how you pick someone, im talking about the techniques you use to get a person you picked killed

[usesPython]

you unvoted ranger so that means you will not vote ranger again

[usesPython]

there are lots of ways, why

Got the feeling you and fire employ more "directly convince people" over "force people to compromise" and was hoping to use rhetorical techniques to make the point that we're specialized in the opposite hit harder

[usesPython]

VOTE: Ranger

[usesPython]

there are lots of ways, why

Got the feeling you and fire employ more "directly convince people" over "force people to compromise" and was hoping to use rhetorical techniques to make the point that we're specialized in the opposite hit harder

i think im more often not the directly convince people as scum type

i still don't really get it though, it seems like you are making the argument that this has relevance to your alignment in this game, but i don't follow why

i have been noticing more and more as a pattern lately that scum have a tendency to believe that town people's reads are more locked in than they actually are

it's a counterpoint to this

[usesPython]

i feel like im losing the plot a little bit

the original point is like, why are you specifically taking Ranger off the table for today?

If Ranger is town I don't want her dead

If Ranger is scum then it's impossible to lim her without scum bussing with the current Python wagon, which scum have shown they wont do

Therefore a useful Ranger lim is impossible

[usesPython]

and you say it's like, because you don't have the numbers

but like, certainly you have more numbers for that than for tris??

We've got Ranger/Python/Jupiter? as reliable votes for tris

Black/PC is close but PC's a pretty notorious tunneler and we don't have the clout necessary with Black to eek out the vote there

hellbooks is a maybe as a compromise vote

Dann/fire/tris vote Python over tris here

[usesPython]

why do you believe scum have shown they won't bus

We are actively being wagoned with less than 24 hours on the clock, that's how we know

[usesPython]

i thought you said it was likely a town driven wagon

Completely irrelevant since then scum can actively bus and still not get a scum lim through

[usesPython]

who do you think is scum python

pre replacements in JV/Roden/tris/jupiter

post replacements tris still stays in and we've been too busy trying to not die to analyze the newer posts

[usesPython]

i thought you said it was likely a town driven wagon

Completely irrelevant since then scum can actively bus and still not get a scum lim through

its completely relevant because you were including scum not bussing as an assumption for your calculations of whether a lim on scum could go through ???

if fypov as town you are being wagoned by town and scum are offwagon bussing, then if town switches then scum lim can go through

Both scum bussing is actively counterproductive since they have to flip one of themselves at some point in this game and flipping someone who bussed just makes it blatantly obvious that scum bussed, therefore you're looking at at most one on wagon rn which is not enough for a scum lim to go through given that we townread both Black and Dann and both want us dead (statistically there's also a third townie that wants us dead rn which makes a bussee + non-busser + 3 town vote go through on Python here)

[usesPython]

We're getting pulled into counterproductive wordgames, Dann what's your read on tris

[usesPython]

(statistically there's also a third townie that wants us dead rn which makes a bussee + non-busser + 3 town vote go through on Python here)

(basically it applies assuming the team isn't exactly tris/fire/PC)

[usesPython]

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there. I had the most wonderful nap.

this us uhhh... idk how to feel about a PC that's willing to swap votes like that

[usesPython]

I'm fine with a tris or ranger lim as well if people want to switch there. I had the most wonderful nap.

this us uhhh... idk how to feel about a PC that's willing to swap votes like that

50 bucks says it's a reaction test

[usesPython]

(for forum rules reasons that was a joke)

[usesPython]

python it just feels like you're having to twist and assume a lot of things about both town and scum behavior that don't really make sense to assume in order to justify your mindset as consistent

i agree though that it isn't really worth going back and forth on it, i would rather you give reads

Who do you want reads on specifically, I think we've talked about our important ones

[usesPython]

you just said that you've been too busy trying not to die to get reads on the newer posts

setting aside the fact that i think those things shouldn't really need to be mutually exclusive for town

i would rather you do that

Jupiter hasn't changed since the replacements came in

Ranger we agree with all her reads except swap Black and Jupiter in the tier lists and is also putting in leveragable effort to get a tris CW going which is pretty A tier, we're not scumreading her here

PC is annoying to read accurately cause they're a known tunneler as both alignments with value systems that we're not familiar with so we'd normally go with the pred read, but Roden did basically nothing this game so that not a high percentage move either so idk how to get a read there. Best we can do is say not enough info rn and to watch for switch/continue behaviours on their tunnels in the future to see if it makes sense with the stated levels of conviction they're putting out

[usesPython]

I can't really get a read on python's survivability because I've seen them do it as scum and as town. It doesn't feel good though

I don't mind a tris or Ranger vote

Just to be clear I think Black is town

If blatant survivability is something that we do as both sides why are you feelbadding it instead of NAIbinning it

[usesPython]

Ranger we agree with all her reads except swap Black and Jupiter in the tier lists and is also putting in leveragable effort to get a tris CW going which is pretty A tier, we're not scumreading her here

Do you townread Ranger?

Think so yeah

[usesPython]

I think the active useful effort from Ranger in getting a tris wagon going instead of being half hearted about it and letting her teammates save her is what's pushing us over the edge there

[usesPython]

but to be clear thats a recent thing and you werent townreading ranger when you were talking about "if ranger is scum she's unlimmable"?

yeah pretty much, like none of those names individually are very sus but with the new replacements no one really is giga sus so we're reading the gamestate instead

what about the replacement affects your read

PC's saving the Roden slot and we expected Ranger to save the JV slot regardless

why do you expect that

We respect Ranger as a player enough to think she can save both town!JV and scum!JV

[usesPython]

wait nvm misread what you were saying. Ranger was not-scum enough for us to not want a wagon there, we didn't really think much deeper than that

[usesPython]

We would quite literally rather die here over ranger in necessary since that at least lets ranger snipe instead of us

[usesPython]

We would quite literally rather die here over ranger in necessary since that at least lets ranger snipe instead of us

You're so confident in your Ranger read that you would rather die instead of her?

yeah

[usesPython]

We would quite literally rather die here over ranger in necessary since that at least lets ranger snipe instead of us

You're so confident in your Ranger read that you would rather die instead of her?

yeah

That's ridiculous

How so? We have 0 confidence in sniping scum

[usesPython]

1334 and the python stuff and like trying to dissect the fire / dann relationship

1334 read to me as an attempt to pocket you. You were in no danger, yet he went out of his way to create a reason for townreading you. It looked highly performative to me. That was one of the posts which pinged me on Political Clout in the first place.

Can you give me where the python stuff and the fire/dann breakdown is?

VOTE: Black

Serious vote

okay we know right from the start python is JOKING

Black can be our first townread, she's got her thinking cap on in 25

VOTE: JV

this is continuing on the joke since black doesn't say much in post 25.

overall just a misunderstanding but then this happens

The Black unvote progression seems pretty straightforward idk why people are confused

For some reason

it feels like Black doesn't believe our serious vote is serious,

idk why

What makes you think that

If you were taking it serious we'd expect you to either go "grr this is a shitpush" or "what makes you say that" (woah deja vu) instead of the lighthearted banter

You're right, I didn't take it serious.

I think it should be pretty obvious why I didn't but for some reason you threw these in here

Thought it was pretty clearly a joke given that our "serious vote" was dropped before you ever posted in a time that you'd normally be V/LA

I read it as you playing dumb to cast shade and rile me up. I can believe that it was a joke though

Python problem gets resolved

serious vote. get blammed VOTE: usespython

E-2

VOTE: Jupiter

The reaction

this feels like iioa they're saying hey look at this thing that happened and not commenting their analysis of the interactions.

VOTE: hellbooks

naked vote on hellbooks. this is page 6 iirc. I'm willing to let it go though.

Didn't read that game at all, did the nervousness in open 894 have anything to do with both of their teammates getting voted out d1/2 or was it happening even in the earlygame?

I feel like this is just here to go into the other game? to answer though no it dont think it was happening in the early game. they had like 2 walls iirc.

Kinda expected us to have more scumreads in a 3(!) mafia game, makes me feels like most of the team is some combo of deepwolf/lurker

I think this is also iioa like what are your actual thought who would be the deepwolf/lurker that you're thinking it could be?

like maybe Jupiter but not really confident there and that's about it

why is jupiter in your lim list here? at this point in the game I'm actually really curious. I was townreading them early in the game.

Like there's definitely the mental of "oh no bussing loses two scum" but a good team should be able to recognise that bussing here is perfectly playable

pointless post imo

There's an emotional dissonance here, this setup punishes not having scumreads more than Coalition so your lightheartedness about not having scumreads when you were apparently stressing about not having scumreads after the coalition failed is offputting

fa
I think this is interesting because they start pushing on tris here and it's actually an analysis of tris and not just information. Also the english turn of phrases makes it so confusing for me to understand.

btw we'd put tris at E-1 here but I kinda dont want to end the day yet so just consider our vote there in spirit

hesitation about voting for tris because in hammer range? not sure how I feel about that. I'm certain people would intent before hammering.

fire is like 2nd or 3rd on our to kill list but we're fine with going there

I don't remember them ever talking about fire except for them being a deepwolf

The "!" in the first post makes the stressed/not stressed claims believable, there's a noticeable change in writing styles that'd be weird to fake in advance

now they switch to defending tris based on an exclamation mark. fair enough I guess.

feeling pocketed VOTE: dannflor

lowkey kinda tempted to coast someone quote me if anything important happens

This feels pretty ick in a way that's hard to put into words

would you hate me if i asked you to try?

overall I don't think I like pythons slot for town.

oh right

VOTE: dannflor

dann, you know how to make this vote go away

[tweet][/tweet]

jupiter what do you make of fires vote on you (asking in order to make thinfs inequitable once again)

i will say right off the bat that this time it was probably due to my undying charm and devilishly good looks as opposed to actually being scumm
(Actual answer: no clue)

true

i mostly wanted to see what your response would be

VOTE: dannflor

im pretty sure ive townread dann for that reason before which may or may not be part of why i felt like his lower presence here felt like it could be intentional

like i think if he's scum then his activity level would be specifically in order to avoid looking like he is exerting too much influence on the game/trying to look towny

everyone is scared of deepwolf dannflor

imo dann/black being scum together isn't that likely

it is something that i am on high alert for especially after Dragon's frenemies game that just ended

ranger was someone i thought was town but was very likely to be pushed by scum

and then scum!STD spent all game hard pushing ranger

i think you and jupiter fit a similar profile of having lots of personality based things that are easy to scum read and, like, look *good* to scum read, so if you're town I'd expect you to attract scum

i am currently town reading you both but im not as confident as i was with ranger in that game though. but i like it as a working hypothesis

i am pretty sketched out by this post ngl

dannflor is good at the scum alignment

so what exactly is your problem with dannflor? I would prefer you just say it out loud instead of poking him endlessly.

[usesPython]

We would quite literally rather die here over ranger in necessary since that at least lets ranger snipe instead of us

You're so confident in your Ranger read that you would rather die instead of her?

yeah

That's ridiculous

How so? We have 0 confidence in sniping scum

If you are town then you are 100% sure of your alignment. You can only be as high as 99% sure about Ranger's alignment. There's no world where you should volunteer to die instead of her

Normally correct, wrong in this setup since we also need to snipe mafia at the end which relies on read accuracy and modifies the EV to be based on `chance of being town * chance of sniping scum`

[usesPython]

From my experience with Ranger her read accuracy is atrocious so why do you have so much confidence in her?

Ranger's been pretty accurate in the games we've played with her?

[usesPython]

I'm worried about python disappearing before the deadline. I've seen this before

We're awake now, should be available until the deadline

[usesPython]

if i decide i don't wanna go back to ranger, what are my alternatives. clearly fireisredsir is not an option even if i wanted to go there right now. usesPython and Political Clout i guess?

why is fire not an option?

[usesPython]

Jupiter's going up with 1808, we're willing to flashwagon tris/PC with the deadline being what it is

[usesPython]

VOTE: PC

[usesPython]

Black, Jupiter, do y'all wanna vote for PC?

[usesPython]

my thoughts before the Tragically Abridged Sleep Arc are that id vote python before PC, and anyone over python except for tris

What do you think about all of your top townreads being wagoned?

[usesPython]

it almost feels like my vote right here is the deciding vote even though it'll only be e-2

It's cause it is. PC/hellbooks/fire/dann will not kill PC here

[usesPython]

VOTE: tris

This game is giving me day 4 frenemies vibes where scum want ranger to die specifically today

[usesPython]

We'll be around throughout the entire day

[usesPython]

looks like tris forgot ranger was scum reading them and scrambled. Idk if that's town or scum though

you wanna kill tris here?

[usesPython]

looks like tris forgot ranger was scum reading them and scrambled. Idk if that's town or scum though

you wanna kill tris here?

if necessary. I'm here the whole time. who else is on rn?

i will around at deadline btw

i think there are plenty of reasons why 1795 isnt convincing

i think jup's post re the black post they like was something id maybe pop in and do as scum given limited time (like just focus on something very minor that catches my interest so its easier to get thoughts out about it)

i think tris has said some pretty towny things in the past few pages

im guessing ranger moved me down bc i defended PC

these are rly just one second thoughts i kind of got swamped with a work emergency and will have to wake up early too (god i have gotten so little sleep for so long) so ill also be here 2 or 3 hours before deadline

ill be up about 3h before deadline

We need a vote count

I'll be here before the deadline to consolidate if needed

not sure if ranger/jupiter/dann will be here for the deadline